Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[KAOS Agent]

If Season 5 is Robert Carlyle's last, I suspect the Dark One story will span the season. Most likely they'll find Merlin in the mid season finale, but he won't be able to help them or it'll get screwed up and the back half will be the resolution to the Darkness. As unhappy as I am with this Dark!Emma storyline, I will be seriously disappointed if it only goes for a half season. Maybe if there's a time jump immediately at the beginning of the new season, so Emma is dark for more than a week, it would work. I do expect Rumpelstiltskin to go out in a blaze of glory either he dies heroically (again) or he does something heroic and lives to ride off into the sunset with Belle (although no act of heroism will ever make that relationship acceptable to me).

[KingOfHearts]

 

he does something heroic and lives to ride off into the sunset with Belle (although no act of heroism will ever make that relationship acceptable to me).

I always just pictured those two moving back to the Dark Castle and living out their days there. It's every Stockholm Syndrome victim's dream, plus Rumple would never have to leave his home-body lifestyle.

[Camera One]

He can't leave until we find out he's Bluebeard, and they try to make that redeemable.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

What do you all think of the prospect that Camelot will take the entire Season 5? Or do you think A&E will be done with those shiny toys and move on to Evil Pocahontas with her sidekicks Evil Bambi and Evil Dumbo in 5B?

I hope this Dark Emma storyline lasts only half season. The longer it last, the bigger the possibility to destroy Emma beyond repair.

Oh, and the next big bad is totally Evil Winnie the Pooh: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EKv-m-9maX0/SGA4WKAQ4_I/AAAAAAAAAAw/3eTpAvSQU1w/s1600-h/Winnie+the+Evil+Pooh.jpg

Edited July 6, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[KAOS Agent]

 

I always just pictured those two moving back to the Dark Castle and living out their days there.

 

Poor Belle. The girl who wants adventure and to be a hero living out her days alone with a powerless homebody. I understood the dynamic between those two in "Skin Deep" but the more background we got on Rumpel and Belle, the more you see that they really don't fit - especially now that Rumpel isn't the Dark One. Not to mention all of Rumpel's decision making regarding Belle without her input. Maybe he'll wake up with his white heart and they'll use his ill-gotten gains from the curse and tour the Land without Magic. Get him out of Storybrooke. He can answer questions via Skype.

[YaddaYadda]

I am hoping that the Camelot arc will last the entire season.  5A can end with them finally finding Merlin and then onto trying to figure out how to get rid of the darkness once and for all.

 

I think this will be as much Rumple's arc as it will be Emma's (probably more his than hers even) since I'm guessing this is his redemption arc that's going to be starting, what with his heart being a blank slate and all.  One thing I'm scared of is how Snowing will interact with Rumple.  We know Hook basically hates him and hates his guts and I'm guessing he hates him even more after what just happened, but Snowing?  There's forgiveness and then there's Snowing.  I hope they're not all sunshine and rainbows with him and let's forgive and forget because he's starting his life anew.

 

I wonder if he can still practice magic even without all those powers.  Regina and Cora weren't born into it and they can.  He has centuries of practice.

[RadioGirl27]

I don't think A&E and their team have the writing chops to make this last a whole season and not hurt the characters and the relationships beyond repair. But not only that, this Dark Emma storyline is going to be a major turn off for casual viewers (I know a few of them that are probably not coming back for season 5). So a whole season of Emma being evil, doing terrible things and hurting her loved ones, while they try to justify all of Rumple's bad deeds is going to damage the ratings more than help them.

And then, there is Zelena and her baby. They have made Mader a regular for a reason, not to have Zelena locked away in the asylum all year. The second half of every season has been Regina heavy since season 2.

So I think that the biggest part of Dark Emma would be solved in the half season finale (that is going to be the 100th episode) and the second half would be centered around Zelena-Regina-Robin-the baby, with Emma and her loved ones dealing with the aftermath of the darkness.

[Watt]

When do they all go back to VanC?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Watt

[YaddaYadda]

July 8th.  Wednesday.

[pezgirl7]

Is July 8 when they start filming, or just when the cast is heading back?

 

These Dark Emma cartoons made me laugh:

http://ouatchibicartoons.tumblr.com/post/122363299529/thanks-to-the-tumblrs-who-responded-to-my

http://ouatchibicartoons.tumblr.com/post/122855288979/if-these-little-cartoons-help-with-hiatusitis

[Mari]

If Carlyle were to leave, would they get rid of Belle, too?

[KingOfHearts]

 

If Carlyle were to leave, would they get rid of Belle, too?

Is that even a question? Her entire life IS Rumple - without him she's nothing.

 

(According to these writers.)

Edited July 6, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

That's how some of us see it, but they don't always see the writing and the story the same way--after all,Belle did babysit Nealflake that one time, and she likes hamburgers and books.

[Shanna Marie]

Is that even a question? Her entire life IS Rumple - without him she's nothing.

I think she's actually been at her most interesting away from him -- her bits with Ariel while Rumple was off in Neverland, the time in 3B before they knew he was still alive, and from the time she was kicking him out of town until he came back. It was only when she stopped being pissed at him and went right back to being all about him that she became dull again. There was so much promise in Team Library in the 4B premiere, with her calling Hook out on his temper, and her scenes with Rumplehookskin were excellent. She's potentially interesting when she's not bleating about Rumple's good heart (even as it's a mass of charcoal). Maybe if he were gone for good, they'd let her do something else. It's just around Rumple that she's so painfully one-note, especially when all evidence says she's dead wrong about that one note she keeps harping on.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe if he were gone for good, they'd let her do something else.

She has basic character traits outside of Rumple, but other than that she's not consistent with anything but research. It's not a full personality. They've paired her with many different characters (Red, Mulan, Hook, Will, Henry) in a handful of episodes, but besides her unlikely-ally dynamic with Hook she doesn't have an enduring tie with any of them. They would basically have to rebuild her character from the ground up if they got rid of Rumple. She has a backstory they've yet to really tap into and her father is almost non-existent now.

 

They could make her a full character, the blueprints are all there, but I don't see how they'd have any interest in that then since they have none now.

[KAOS Agent]

Belle's defining characteristic on the show at this point is that she really likes to nap. They have zero interest in writing for her, so instead she sleeps. Once Rumpel is gone, so is Belle. I'd be so happy for her if he dies and she takes the opportunity to explore the Land without Magic on her own. Maybe she could hook up with Mulan again and they could adventure together. Anyone have any predictions about Belle in Season 5? Will she nap with Rumpel in coma-like solidarity?

[Camera One]

I'll bet the Storybrooke crew wouldn't have progressed an inch on their quest to find/de-dark Emma UNTIL Belle comes running with the news that Rumple woke up.  This will happen in the season premiere.

 

And then he would point them to some random object in his Shop which will allow them to move a micrometer towards their goals.  

 

We'll get weak and sympathetic Rumple for much of 5A until he begins scheming anew towards the end of 5A.  Cue the dun dun dun music.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Camera One

[LizaD]

I think it will depend on if Robert stays or not. If not I'm sure they'll save his redemption for the finale where he'll go out in a big sacrifice. If he stays I'm not sure where they can take Rump. At this point I have to guess he's told them sayonara which is why we're getting the DO story.

I still think Rump is going to be the one that beats the DO. I can see him getting DO'ed again at the end of 5A to save Emma and close out that arc and then he beats it out right in 5B. You know they love their full circle thing and I'm positive they're going to let Rump be the one to beat the DO once and for all. That's his thing. Or maybe Rump and Emma can halve the DO and each get a share ala Snowing's heart.

Wait a sec, why can't they "tether" the DO to everyone in the universe so that divided by a billion fairy tale people, it's so diluted it won't add anything extra dark to the inherent darkness of everyone? Why did Merlin have to concentrate it in just 1 person? Like Snowing, they could've spread Emma's darkness around instead of just that 1 poor innocent egg baby. Sharing is caring!

[Camera One]

Wait a sec, why can't they "tether" the DO to everyone in the universe so that divided by a billion fairy tale people, it's so diluted it won't add anything extra dark to the inherent darkness of everyone? Why did Merlin have to concentrate it in just 1 person? Like Snowing, they could've spread Emma's darkness around instead of just that 1 poor innocent egg baby. Sharing is caring!

 

I expect they'll show Young Merlin being foolhardy and over-confident and doing this despite objections.  I can imagine a flashback where Merlin is neighbors with two sisters, Blue and Morgana, the Ladies of the Lake.  They're all magical beings and they're close.  Blue likes Merlin but Merlin likes Morgana.  A great Darkness descends upon the land, and Merlin has this idea to tether the Darkness to someone.  Blue doesn't agree, but Morgana volunteers.  But the darkness overcomes her and she initiates the line of Dark One as a reservoir for her darkness while still existing separately.  Blue in her disappointment at Merlin retreats from the poisoned Lake, swears off love forever and starts the Fairies.  

[RadioGirl27]

I still think Rump is going to be the one that beats the DO. I can see him getting DO'ed again at the end of 5A to save Emma and close out that arc and then he beats it out right in 5B. You know they love their full circle thing and I'm positive they're going to let Rump be the one to beat the DO once and for all. That's his thing. Or maybe Rump and Emma can halve the DO and each get a share ala Snowing's heart.

Even if they are selling this as being about Emma, in the end, this storyline is going to be mainly about Rumple. So yeah, I think he is going to be the one to finally defeat the darkness. I would prefer it if it was Emma herself or a convination of Hook, Snow and Charming, but better Rumple than Regina.

[Souris]

I think anyone expecting a TLK between Emma and Hook out of this storyline, or Snowing playing a main role, is going to be sorely disappointed. It's going to be the Hook's heart arc all over again -- set up for one thing, but that payoff isn't delivered. Or, heck, the first Zelena storyline, which was set up to be Emma to save them and ended up being Light Magic Regina.

[PixiePaws1]

As much as I am horrified that Emma is made a villain by sacrificing herself . .. .! I thought I'd try and amuse myself by speculating on what Emma without a mental filtering feature might have to 'share' with others.So here's my list:

1 - A thorough bitchslapping for Rumple for setting her up to lose her childhood  . . .which resulted in lost of self worth and a myriad of suffering in the foster system

2- Taking Rumple's oh so undeserved white heart and using it for a tennis ball for trying to kill Killian

3- Beating the crap out of Rumple for trying to turn  her dark and ultimately succeeding albeit indirectly

4 - Dragging the Apprentice's corpse behind the bug from one end of town to the other for releasing the Darkness from Rumple in the first place ,,,and we know how that ended up!

5 - Dragging Regina by the hair to the doorstep of all the relatives of her murder victims and forcing her to lick their shoes in apology

6 - Giving Regina a piece of chalk and forcing her to write  by hand 'I murder people when I don't get my way because I am a selfish sociapath. . I also murdered Graham and got away with it . .until now' in very small letters on every wall in Storybrooke.

7 - Locking Regina up in her vault then throwing vault into the same ravine that Emma nearly fell in when Regina used the tough task master method of teaching her magic...

8 -Forcing her parents to stand in the corner for 1 month and rethink their life choices -after she screams in Snow's face "I fucking hated Neal for sending me to jail and destroying my life and every time someone told me I was jealous of Tamara I wanted to push their face into a rotary hoer"

9-  Turning August back into wood and setting him alight with fireworks that spell out 'I did this for your own good - to set you on the right path'

10-Back handing Henry across the townline for treating her like crap and siding with Neal when they first met.

11- Ripping out Leroy's throat and telling him to go scream about that!

12- Taking the Blue Fairy's wand and sticking it where the sun don't shine just because she looks so damn dodgy.

13 - Making a nice new wardrobe for Gepetto then burying him in it . . . and he knows why!

[Mari]

I can't say I'd want all of those to happen, but there's definitely a few I'd love to see, Pixie Paws1.

[LizaD]

 

Even if they are selling this as being about Emma, in the end, this storyline is going to be mainly about Rumple

 

I think Emma fares pretty well by sharing her arcs with Rump. She got quality time with Pan and Neverland issues on par with him. Ingrid pretty much split her time evenly between Rump/Emma and the Frozen crew. They both split Neal pretty evenly too.  It just doesn't seem that way because Emma doesn't end up saving the day even in her arcs but it's not like Rump takes over in that arena either. She never gets the "climax" of the arcs true but her and Rump are just about even in the story stakes.

 

Compare that to Snow getting to "share" her stories, and I use that word very loosely, with the black hole of suck and it's a world of difference. 

 

I found this old quote of Robert's and I'm giving all the credit to him and not the writers.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2012/10/17/robert-carlyle-rumpelstiltskin

 

 

Less is more: “One of the things I spoke about with [Horowitz and Kitsis] is that we shouldn’t over-use this character. If you overuse something like Rumple, you begin to see how it works and it becomes less attractive. He’s the kind of character the audience should look forward to seeing, rather than hitting you with it week after week, I don’t think that would work.”

[Curio]

If you overuse something like Rumple, you begin to see how it works and it becomes less attractive. He’s the kind of character the audience should look forward to seeing, rather than hitting you with it week after week, I don’t think that would work.

 

If only they had used that same advice with Regina...

Edited July 7, 2015 by Curio

[KAOS Agent]

I've decided that Zelena's going to have a girl and because these people are just so on board with inappropriate names, the baby will be called Marian Cora.

[Camera One]

Or Zelena will die in childbirth and the baby will be named Zelena Marian Mills Hood.

 

And you know Emma and Hook's future baby will be named Cruella if it's a girl, and Rumple Pan if it's a boy.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Camera One

[Mari]

Maybe Danielle Marian?  (If Regina names Baby Green)

 

But, yeah, if Zelena names her, I'd be completely unsurprised at  a Cora or a Marian.

[KingOfHearts]

 

But, yeah, if Zelena names her, I'd be completely unsurprised at  a Cora or a Marian.

Or Rumple. You know, since she has a thing for her own attempted killer.

[Rumsy4]

Graham would be a completely creepy/inappropriate name for the Zelena baby. So, I'm throwing Graham into the hat for a boy name. If it's a girl, it's got to be Eva Marian Cora Mills Hood. :-p

[KingOfHearts]

I keep coming back to Morgana LeFay. Apparently she was a pupil to Merlin at one point. Could she be the original Dark One? That would make a heap of sense. Whoever the Sorcerer chose to be the first Dark One had to be someone prominent.

Edited July 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I think Morgan Le Fay is a huge possibility, though she wouldn't fit in timeline wise, but then they're also saying that Arthur came from very humble beginnings so I'm assuming he wasn't born to be king (I know Arthur was raised outside of court).  I keep wondering why Merlin would tie the darkness to a human and all I keep coming up is that the person he tethered the darkness to was something like Emma, someone who did it willingly as a sacrifice and someone who had light magic to try and balance out the darkness.

Edited July 9, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[kingshearte]

Graham would be a completely creepy/inappropriate name for the Zelena baby. So, I'm throwing Graham into the hat for a boy name. If it's a girl, it's got to be Eva Marian Cora Mills Hood. :-p

I think that, for maximum impact, Marian has to be the kid's first name. That way, she can remind both Robin and Regina of the dead wife that she killed (at least in some version of history) every time they look at her.

[Shanna Marie]

Eh, by the time the kid's born, Robin will be like "Marian who?" and Regina would prefer to pretend that she never existed. Zelena might use the name, just to be snarky, but I have little expectation of Zelena being allowed any rights to the kid. Robin and Regina will raise it as their own.

[OnceUponAJen]

The worst name of all for Marian's baby?

Neal!

[Shanna Marie]

New Storybrooke city ordinance: All children must be named Neal. Because he was a hero they all loved (even if they'd only spent about five minutes with him) who saved them all.

[RadioGirl27]

Many fans think that if Emma and Hook have a baby boy he would be named Liam. But no, I'm pretty sure that, in this show and with this writers, he would be named Neal or Bae, so it's a good thing that this baby would only exist in fan fiction where he would never be named like that.

[Dianthus]

On another note, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Dark Emma comes on strong and Hook is at pains to resist her. Also, I imagine her questioning Hook's masculinity at some point.

[Camera One]

So she seduces the Sheriff of Nottingham instead?  Picky he's not.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Camera One

[Panopticon]

On another note, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Dark Emma comes on strong and Hook is at pains to resist her. Also, I imagine her questioning Hook's masculinity at some point.

Ever since this started I've had an image in my head of Hook having to take the dagger and say "Dark One, I command thee to stop seducing me." And then being incredibly disconcerted in a "well there's a sentence I never thought I'd have to say" way.

Alternatively or in addition, I could see the lowered inhibitions aspect leading to her bragging about Hook. "Oh, my boyfriend only has one hand? At least he knows what to do with it, unlike your boyfriend who can't tell if he's in bed with his dead wife or your sister."

[Serena]

Alternatively or in addition, I could see the lowered inhibitions aspect leading to her bragging about Hook. "Oh, my boyfriend only has one hand? At least he knows what to do with it, unlike your boyfriend who can't tell if he's in bed with his dead wife or your sister."

That is the best sentence I've ever read.

[Rumsy4]

I keep wondering why Merlin would tie the darkness to a human and all I keep coming up is that the person he tethered the darkness to was something like Emma, someone who did it willingly as a sacrifice and someone who had light magic to try and balance out the darkness.

That's a great idea! If it was Morgana, maybe she became corrupted by the Darkness, and didn't want to be separated from it. Throw in a budding romance between Merlin and Morgana for maximum angst. That would make a contrast with DO Emma being saved by the love of Hook/her family.

[Curio]

I keep wondering why Merlin would tie the darkness to a human and all I keep coming up is that the person he tethered the darkness to was something like Emma, someone who did it willingly as a sacrifice and someone who had light magic to try and balance out the darkness.

 

If it was Morgana, maybe she became corrupted by the Darkness, and didn't want to be separated from it. Throw in a budding romance between Merlin and Morgana for maximum angst. That would make a contrast with DO Emma being saved by the love of Hook/her family.

 

These are both pretty interesting theories. I hadn't put too much thought into it, but if Merlin felt the need to tether the darkness to a person, my initial thought is that Merlin is a huge asshole and he tethered the darkness to someone he really, really didn't like to make them suffer for eternity. So maybe Morgana and Merlin had a thing, they liked practicing magic together, but she broke up with him when he started abusing his magical powers and dabbled into dark magic. Merlin, embarrassed and angry, gets back at her by finding out a way to tether the darkness cloud to a person and forces her to live with the darkness inside her, thus creating the first Dark One and also The Black Fairy.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

thus creating the first Dark One and also The Black Fairy.

 

 replying in the spoiler thread just to be on the safe side.

[kingshearte]

Alternatively or in addition, I could see the lowered inhibitions aspect leading to her bragging about Hook. "Oh, my boyfriend only has one hand? At least he knows what to do with it, unlike your boyfriend who can't tell if he's in bed with his dead wife or your sister."

Oh, if only.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Alternatively or in addition, I could see the lowered inhibitions aspect leading to her bragging about Hook. "Oh, my boyfriend only has one hand? At least he knows what to do with it, unlike your boyfriend who can't tell if he's in bed with his dead wife or your sister."

Could Dark One Emma at least give us some snark? Please? If it's about Regina, that would make this whole plot line worth it.

Edited July 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

I don't think her snarking on Regina would make the whole plot line worth it, but it would certainly help!

[retrograde]

Ever since this started I've had an image in my head of Hook having to take the dagger and say "Dark One, I command thee to stop seducing me." And then being incredibly disconcerted in a "well there's a sentence I never thought I'd have to say" way.

I assume this was a joke, but I do think they're going to have at least one of Emma's loved ones reluctantly use the dagger on her, causing much angsty fallout. My money is on Snow, though, because they really love destroying that relationship.

[Camera One]

Yes I can see that too, retrograde.  A&E would love that.  

[YaddaYadda]

I do think they're going to have at least one of Emma's loved ones reluctantly use the dagger on her, causing much angsty fallout. My money is on Snow, though, because they really love destroying that relationship.

 

Okay, but I have a question following this up.  If Snow or whoever commands Emma to not do something to stop her from doing something they know she will regret, is it so bad to prevent her from doing it?  

 

I mean Belle commanded Rumple 3 times last season.  The first time, with the fake dagger, she ordered him to take her to the Snow Queen's lair and yes, her motivation was a bit selfish, she wanted to be a hero.  The second time, she saved a man's life and the third time, she banished someone who was becoming a danger to her and everyone else.  The first time she commanded him, I was like eh, I get why she did it, but I also get why he felt betrayed (even though he was lying to her and manipulating her)...The other times, I was like good for her!

 

If Emma is all set to do something horrible and they have her stand down, she might be upset about it but once the darkness is out of her, I'm guessing she'll be grateful for it.  She asked her parents specifically to take the darkness out of her, so stopping her from doing something horrible is part of it.

 

I think it comes down to personal gain vs trying to help her.  I wonder if she didn't drop the dagger on purpose too.

 

I wonder if Rumple will regret everything he has done when he was the Dark One or if he'll be like Regina and say he doesn't regret it because he got to be with Belle and got his son back for 5 seconds.