Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[YaddaYadda]

Hook is a million years old and Maleficent was pregnant at the same time Snow was pregnant with Emma, so the child would be Emma's age if it survived.

[Camera One]

Continuing the speculation in the episode thread that Rumple engineered the whole Queens-of-Darkness leading Snow and Charming to the Tree of "Wisdom", and kickstarting Snow and Charming going to extreme measures to ensure their child is good, which Rumple needed to ensure Emma would be the Saviour to break the Curse so he could be free to pursue Bae.

 

If that was the case, maybe Rumple promised the Queens that they would NOT be trapped in Storybrooke and NOT be given a false identity when the Curse hits, and that was how Cruella and Ursula ended up in Our World.  

 

But when Snow refused to do something that Rumple expected her to do, Maleficent pleaded with Snow that she needs to do it, or Maleficent would lose her baby and Snow still refused, and thus Snow wronged her.  In desperation, Maleficent went and tried to attack Regina to stop her right before the Curse to save her baby or whatever, and that was how she ended up trapped in the Basement.  Which would have suited Rumple perfectly since he needed Maleficent to be in Storybrooke so Emma could retrieve the Egg.  

 

Maleficent would need to be completely in the dark about the Egg business for her to even want to work with Rumple now.  Though it wouldn't be hard for her to find out from Charming or Emma how Rumple used her, but of course they will say nothing until the last pivotal moment.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

I honestly don't know what the QoD's currently think the plan is because its pretty opaque at this point.

I'm sure he told them absolutely nothing about his plans and the only reason he even needed Maleficent in the first place was because he knew she could put the screws to Snowing.

I will never say this enough.  Rumple needs Emma.  He said so himself when he had Hook tied to the fence in episode 8.  He needed her for the hat and now that the hat has failed, he needs her for something else.  He needs her for his happy ending. 

 

He probably figured out that there's something only she can do and that the only way she would ever do it is if she tapped into whatever darkness she has. 

 

Something has changed since he was banished.  His agenda has changed.  I think he will maybe try and get his son back.  The picture of Neal and Emma that Hook found in her box of memories bugged me.  I just thought it was weird and I just chalked it up as something that both Hook and Emma had in common in terms of the loss they both suffered because they both loved Neal.  But now, I'm just wondering if it's not so much more than that.

 

And if that's what it is, then it takes dark magic to bring someone back from the dead as we saw in 3B and it's a life for a life.  Rumple would reunite with Neal over Emma's dead body basically.  

 

Whatever Rumple is selling those dimwitted QoD, it has nothing to do with them, but I'm pretty sure they will get their own happy ending in the form of whatever it is that they lost.

Edited March 10, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

Whatever Rumple is selling those dimwitted QoD, it has nothing to do with them, but I'm pretty sure they will get their own happy ending in the form of whatever it is that they lost.

 

The Queens of Dimness are getting played just like they were with the Chernobog. I don't see why they trust Rumple in any way, shape of form. He's screwed them over more than once, it seems like.

 

He probably needs Maleficent in order to manipulate Emma into going dark. I'm guessing his need for Emma stems from the fact she's the most powerful magic practitioner, possibly the only one who can take on the Sorcerer or Author and win. He may need her to be hatted now that the fairies are immune.

[LizaD]

Maybe Emma is the "Author" and the only way Rump thinks she'll give villains happy endings is if she's one too. In which case I hope she turns all evil and gives them all some twisted version of what they think is their happy ending. For example, Rumbelle could be together and Rump will have all the power he wants but they're stuck in a snow globe, population of 2 or something. And she gives Belle this annoying shrewish wife personality.

[Camera One]

Maybe The Author is a second Regina, the one who went into the bar and became the Wisest Sage of All Time.  Then, in Season 5, we'll have two of her.

[Rumsy4]

While I think it's quite plausible that Rumple impersonates Hook to get the Dagger from Belle, I hope that won't happen. Because once again, Belle would be made to look like a fool by Rumple (she is just getting interesting), and I had enough of Hook being tied up, and not in a good way. :-p

Edited March 11, 2015 by Rumsy4

[OnceUponAJen]

Emma has not broken out the handcuffs in a while!

[Camera One]

If they ever put Ursula in jail, they'll need to do something about those tentacles.  I wonder if they've thought that far.  Put that under "Things we should have thought about before letting them into town".

Edited March 11, 2015 by Camera One

[Dianthus]

Ok, big subject change:

I'm as disappointed at the lack of a CS road trip after NY Serenade as anyone, but what if it just didn't happen? 

1) Emma was still trying to 'protect' Henry's fake memories at the time.

2) Maybe the apartment came furnished (in their memories), so they only packed up what they considered personal stuff & took it all with them in the Bug, leaving no room for Hook.

3) Emma didn't yet know about the Jolly and assumed Hook could make his own way back to Stroybrooke.

Just random speculation based on something from another thread.

[The Cake is a Pie]

Didn't the three of them arrive back in SB in the bug, though? Henry was asleep and Emma told Hook to keep and eye on him, and try not to traumatize him with the hook.

[Camera One]

Latest two-lines-of-dialogue Script Tease from Adam.

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/575468886356680706

 

Wow, what a surprise.  This type of conversation occurs in every episode.  No doubt another magical object whose purpose is revealed via flashback?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Camera One

[Souris]

While I think it's quite plausible that Rumple impersonates Hook to get the Dagger from Belle, I hope that won't happen. Because once again, Belle would be made to look like a fool by Rumple (she is just getting interesting), and I had enough of Hook being tied up, and not in a good way. :-p

I think this should be in the Spoiler thread, no?

[KingOfHearts]

Here's how I think Ursula's backstory will play out.

 

Ursula was a sea goddess when she was younger. 

Her father was Poseidon, and she had a beautiful voice.

She's interested in the human world, so she creates an event that occurs during high tide, where merfolk and her kind can walk on land. She meets Hook, and she misunderstands that he's just flirting. 

Her father finds out

and because of this she's demoted to sea witch and banished from her family. This is why she's just a myth now. She goes back to Hook, but he leaves her. It's pretty much Little Mermaid, but with a bad ending. 

 

Oh, by the way - that picture of a door Henry found is definitely one of the Mad Hatter's doors. The pattern on the floor is the same.

Edited March 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I didn't read the spoilered parts, but I think you are on the right track that Ursula will turn out to be Ariel gone wrong.  It would fit the pattern where the Snow Queen was basically Elsa from Frozen with a bad ending.  I don't think Hook will be romantically involved with her, though.  Ursula didn't really show much animosity towards him, and you would think she would have tried to kill him by now since she's a "villain".  I am guessing Hook will make a promise to save her, or to take her away on his pirate ship, but he ends up choosing his revenge on Rumple instead (since everything goes back to that).  And now he will regret it.  *Insert sadface.*  And he will again be faced with the choice of revenge-against-Rumple or Save Emma!  

Edited March 12, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

But then that means he broke her heart which he said he didn't in 413 when Emma point blank asked him.  He said he did something worst than that to her.  I think he put her up to something and whatever he did put the villain stamp on her by her people and got her banished.  I don't think there's anything worst than the people you love turning their back on you.

 

That also means that the end result of her encounter with him is that she is alone in the world.

Edited March 12, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

But then that means he broke her heart which he said he didn't in 413 when Emma point blank asked him. He said he did something worst than that to her. I think he put her up to something and whatever he did put the villain stamp on her by her people and got her banished. I don't think there's anything worst than the people you love turning their back on you.

That also means that the end result of her encounter with him is that she is alone in the world.

Emma asked if Hook broke her heart. He said, "Worse." Getting her demoted from goddess and banished from her family would be.

[Mari]

I'm not so sure they're going to go with Hook as an ex/almost love interest of Ursula's. After all they grief they got over Hook-the-rape-guy---and a lot of it from the Regina fans they seem to pay attention to? I don't think they'd be so eager to open that up again. I think if Hook did Ursula wrong, it's going to have to be without the lover/romance relationship between them.

[Dianthus]

The Cake is a Pie, on 11 Mar 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Didn't the three of them arrive back in SB in the bug, though? Henry was asleep and Emma told Hook to keep and eye on him, and try not to traumatize him with the hook.

Damn those forgetting spells!;-D

[Camera One]

Where did August get all his information from?  First he knew about the Dagger.  Then, he knew about Neal being Rumple's son.  And now he has a drawing of the Sorcerer/Author's Door?  In hindsight, the "adding his story to the book" plan made no sense.  The point was what exactly?  Oh yeah, to create the so-called mystique about whatever the hell he was doing in town.  So where did the lazy ass learn his book binding and storybook calligraphy and illustration skills?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Where did August get all his information from?  First he knew about the Dagger.  Then, he knew about Neal being Rumple's son.  And now he has a drawing of the Sorcerer/Author's Door?

 

I'm assuming the Author told him about the book.  Did the Author also tell him where to find Emma?  Or did he manage doing that on his motorcycle?  And the type writer?  I thought for sure that's what Marco was handing over to Regina.

 

Maybe we'll get something like the Blue fairy told him about the door and gave him the paper Henry found.  She managed to turn him into a boy but couldn't unwoodify him.

 

I find that for a plot that we've known would be explored since season 1, they haven't done such a bang up job setting things up.  They haven't really dropped any hints to revisit that I can think of.

[Camera One]

Any bets on which Sleeping Beauty character would get most character-assassinated in Maleficent's flashback story?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Any bets on which Sleeping Beauty character would get most character-assassinated in Maleficent's flashback story?

I don't even see how we could even be getting much Sleeping Beauty backstory. According to the promo, the flashbacks are mostly how Regina and Maleficent met. S2 left so much to explore with that fairy tale, and I think it fits the tone of Once perfectly, but it seems like it's going to be pretty irrelevant to present day. Maleficent's focus seems to have to do with Snowing more than whatever happened in her past.

Edited March 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

That's too bad... that would have been one of the best reasons to bring on Maleficent.  I don't watch promos (I had to skip that part of your post) or read spoilers, so I just randomly expected Maleficent would fit into the Sleeping Beauty mythology somehow.  It already feels so messy with Aurora being the first Aurora's daughter.  I guess Maleficent is much older than she looks?   I would have enjoyed watching Blue yell at Merriweather in frustration.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Camera One

[scarynikki12]

Is Aurora's mother share her name? I always assumed that Mom was Briar Rose to distinguish between the two though I have no evidence to support that. Was it confirmed and I just missed it?

[KAOS Agent]

I don't think they ever named Aurora's mother. Since the Aurora seen on Once has a Prince Phillip and the father is called King Stefan, I'd assume the mother also has the same name as in the film where she was Queen Leah.

[Camera One]

Is Aurora's mother share her name? I always assumed that Mom was Briar Rose to distinguish between the two though I have no evidence to support that. Was it confirmed and I just missed it?

No they never confirmed it, though that would be a nice call-back, to explain how Aurora's mother also was put under the Sleeping Spell.

 

But then apparently, Maleficent regularly puts entire castles under a temporary version of the sleeping spell, so it's nothing special, I guess.  So Maleficent never learned how to freeze people like all the other magical villains?

Edited March 15, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Is Aurora's mother share her name? I always assumed that Mom was Briar Rose to distinguish between the two though I have no evidence to support that. Was it confirmed and I just missed it?

In Disney's Sleeping Beauty, the mother's name was also named Aurora.

[scarynikki12]

Are you referring to the animated movie? I don't remember Aurora's mom being named in the movie.  Stefan was always named but she only got "and the Queen" when mentioned.  They even made a point of saying that Aurora was named after the dawn.  A quick Wikipedia check says that mom was Queen Leah, though it wasn't mentioned in the movie at all. 

[Camera One]

Yeah, the Queen was never named.  The only thing I remember her doing was asking if Maleficent was offended.  Would Maleficent have just left if she hadn't asked that?  IMDB was saying the Actress was never credited, so where was it written that her named was Leah?  

 

I was thinking A&E would give her a bigger role since they usually write more for the women.  Though they'll probably destroy the character in the process.  Maybe doing something catty to Maleficent to turn Stefan away from his first love, thereby pushing Maleficent on the path of evil or something.

 

I was thinking about the Prince Jonathan thing mentioned by KingofHearts above.  Cora and Maleficent could have been contemporaries.  So maybe an older more rugged Jonathan impregnated Maleficent as well by pretending he was a Prince.  Maybe Maleficent transformed herself into a beautiful woman and went to the palace for three nights of dancing.  And she meets Jonathan in the gardens.  Later on, she was going to marry Stefan, but then Queen Leah found out she was pregnant with Jonathan's baby and told on her.  Then Maleficent went GREEN with envy.  We could have a combination of previously done plots.  

Edited March 15, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

IMDB was saying the Actress was never credited, so where was it written that her named was Leah?

She was referred to as "Queen Leah" in promotional materials.

 

 

I don't remember Aurora's mom being named in the movie

I vividly remember her being also called Aurora for something. I even remember looking it up to confirm it and it was. How odd.

Edited March 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

There's one version of the Sleeping Beauty story in which the Sleeping Beauty's daughter is named Aurora.

 

I don't think that's the version where the prince actually rapes the sleeping princess, she gets pregnant and gives birth to twins, and she wakes up when one of the babies sucks the splinter from the spindle out of her finger.

[Camera One]

Maybe that's how Maleficent got pregnant?  "Take that sleeping Prince to my bedchamber!".  Whole new level of ick, but if anyone can make a character do that and still defend it's not *that* bad, it's this show.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I actually wouldn't even mind if it turned out Henry had imagined everything. At least it would explain all the writing fails. Of course, then Henry would be a very disturbed individual, but you could argue he's already one, considering his nonchalance in regards to Regina's past hobbies.

Henry is a mentally disturbed child in therapy who was abused by adoptive mother Regina, who he made the Evil Queen in his fantasies because of his anger toward her. He seeks out his birth mother Emma, who he idolized as his savior, thus he made her the Savior. He's schizophrenic and created a dream world to cope with his life... pretty much what Emma and Jiminy thought in S1. I could see this.

 

As his relationship with Regina improved, so it did in his fantasies. I'd imagine her being more of a strict mother in real life and more redeemable. It seems like a 180 in the dream world because he made her so evil then changed his mind. Yep, it explains a lot...

Edited March 17, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I'm guessing they will have an episode like that in the final season.  Almost every show has one.  Alternatively, they could have Emma imagining everything.  She wakes up at the hospital after that car accident from the pilot.  This will be easier to do with Henry being so old now.  People in Storybrooke will tell Emma there's no Henry and they found her in her car at the town line.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

I've been dreading this kind of ending for some time now, that everything has been been happening in Henry's head (yes, even the crypt sex, that little perv). The last scene would be Henry waking up in his bed and going to the kitchen to have breakfast. When I'm being optimsitic, only Regina (or Emma) are there, when I'm being particularly pessimistic, both Regina and Emma are there.

 

A few years ago, a Spanish tv-show ended like this (all the show, the 147 episodes, had been a dream of the protagonist). The backlash was enormous. I never watched it (not my type of show), but even the hardcore fans hated it.

Edited March 17, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Camera One]

How about an ending where Henry wakes up, and he is in the Hansel & Gretel Witch's house about to be put into a cauldron for dinner while at the dinner table sits The Evil Queen, The Queen of Hearts, Rumple, Peter Pan, The Wicked Witch, Maleficent, Jafar, Cruella and Ursula, debating Butter or Gravy.  They're all holding forks and knives with napkins tucked in shirts, salivating.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Camera One

[FurryFury]

This ending would almost make me forgive all the shitty stuff that's been going with the show ever since season 2! 

[Souris]

I despise endings that make everything a dream/hallucination/whatever. It's such a cheap gimmick, IMO. I didn't even like the "Newhart" one, even though it's considered a classic.

 

But I fear Once will do something exactly like that. Because TS, TW. I'm sure they think it would be incredibly cool.

[Camera One]

I don't think we have anything to fear about the ending ending being a "none of this ever happened", since it invalidates everything that had happened in the entire series.  Headwriters hate that.  They might go the "Lost" route and let us *think* it might happen, but it won't happen.  We'll see a smiling 18-Year-Old Henry pretending to be 14 holding hands with Regina in one scene and then with Emma in another scene, while Snow and Charming look on.  Meanwhile, Cinders, Aurora, Mulan, Granny, Gepetto, Grumpy, Nova, and five million other guest stars will stand there doing nothing.  If we're lucky, we'll get a monologue too. "I'm Regina and I'm a hero and now I have my happy ending, and we all lived happily ever after."

Edited March 18, 2015 by Camera One

[FurryFury]

Yeah, they'll never do a dream ending. I get people who hate stuff like that (I do too!), but with Once, I just can't take this show seriously anymore, it's really been run into the ground. So a WTF ending would at least make me laugh - while the ending they'll probably do will most likely make me barf (and maybe sigh with relief that I'm finally free from this nightmare).

[KingOfHearts]

I imagined the ending of the show being everyone going back to the Enchanted Forest. I'm already ticked the writers have stated that in S3 everyone chose Storybrooke as their home. You can't tell me none of those people had better lives in their home land. I could accept maybe a portal system they could go back and forth with, but I can't see SB itself as endgame. As Regina said in 3x11, "It doesn't belong here, and neither do we". Inevitably a Big Bad is going to come and create a new curse or find some failsafe gadget. It's just not stable.

Edited March 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I can see them recreating Storybrooke in The Enchanted Forest.  Maybe the entire town gets transported there or something.  Then, you would have Snow and Charming in their medieval attire visiting Emma, Henry and Regina in their modern clothing.

[Dianthus]

Re: Poor, Unfortunate Soul, what if Hook ended up making a deal 

with Poseidon

that saves The Jolly (immunity from getting wrecked?) while selling out Ursula and other pirates?

Edited March 22, 2015 by Dianthus

[Camera One]

I'm going to speculate based on the title of tonight's episode, "Poor Unfortunate Souls" and our knowledge that Hook has a past with Ursula.  

 

Will Ursula's first flashback (I'm assuming she will get one based on "Poor Unfortunate Souls") turn out as lame as Maleficent?  If Hook's past with her will finally be revealed, will the flashback be more about Hook or more about Ursula, or will we actually get a good balance this time (since "Enter the Dragon" felt to me like Maleficent was only a prop for Regina).  

 

I think there are 2 things Ursula has going for her which should make a better flashback are: (1) We know absolutely nothing about Ursula, whereas we did know something about Maleficent so got mainly retread territory (2) Ursula's past is presumably linked to Hook, so hopefully, that would mean a more equal time-share.

 

Now based on what has happened last episode, what should we expect in the Present-day Storybrooke?

- In Storybrooke, we will probably get Emma frantically searching for Regina and Pinocchio. So cue the random hiking in the woods.  Plus we'll get Rumple and the Queens questioning August.  I'm guessing August will croak ONE vague mildly helpful but not really tidbit about the Author to set up NEXT episode's quest, and then Rumple will turn him back into a Child just in time for Emma, Charming, etc. to rush in

- In Storybrooke, if the pattern of writing holds, that means Ursula will get something to do if she gets a flashback.  The question is what will she do which is at all relevant.  Based on some past flashbacks, Ursula could leave the Cabin and do something on her own... if her past is with Hook, maybe she'll go talk to him to extract a favor?  Alternatively, Hook could take the initiative and offer to bargain with Ursula since they know each other, though how would he find them?  Let me guess, he knew all about Rumple's cabin because of him spying on Rumple in 2B.  Or will Ursula stay in the Cabin but be disagreeing with the other Queens about how to deal with Pinocchio, and that will reflect her emotional struggle in the flashback?  This would be more organic, though I suspect they will have Ursula and Hook in the present-day to ram us over the head about how parallel the situation is.

 

Flashback and present-wise, with regards to Hook, I forsee another episode where he gets to show he is no longer the villain he was before.  He will regret something he did *again*.  I am assuming he was faced with the choice of continuing revenge against Rumple, or helping Ursula, and he chose the former.  But in this episode, he will realize his mistake and make the right decision.  Hook may very well take action without consulting Emma, who will be off with Charming on Idiot Duty... maybe he will use his "knowledge" of Ursula to try to find her and to free Pinocchio.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Camera One

[bmoore4026]

I'm calling it - Regina's dream was a premonition of the season finale.

[Mari]

I'm calling it - Regina's dream was a premonition of the season finale.

Well, if I recall correctly, that would be a power Regina hasn't demonstrated yet, so that would make complete sense.  It could easily be Evil Emma transfigured into Evil Regina's shape, or something.  (Isn't it sad that I can say that completely nonsarcastically?  Because I wasn't being sarcastic.)

Edited March 23, 2015 by Mari

[OnceUponAJen]

So now that we know Emma's heart is in danger, wouldn't it be a good idea for Hook, Emma and Henry to cross the town line and run away to New York? The only obstacle is that Emma has promised Regina to help get her happy ending, so I don't think she'd go for it. And will Hook even tell her what he knows? I really hope so!

[Joanh23]

So I'm now back to thinking that the Emma goes dark storyline doesn't really culminate until the finale - if we assume that the QOD all get their happy endings, and Rumple is the only one left at the end of the season without his happy ending then I can totally see him doing whatever it takes to turn Emma dark in order to get his happy ending.  I can see Emma toying with darkness over the next few episodes, but just when it seems she's definitely gone to the light side again, Rumple does something to change it all again.  

[Curio]

So I'm now back to thinking that the Emma goes dark storyline doesn't really culminate until the finale - if we assume that the QOD all get their happy endings, and Rumple is the only one left at the end of the season without his happy ending then I can totally see him doing whatever it takes to turn Emma dark in order to get his happy ending.

 

Yes, and I can also see Hook possibly being the one who makes a big sacrifice to protect Emma from going full-on dark. I don't think it was a coincidence that the writers put in that conversation about Hook driving the dagger through Rumple's heart and Emma mentioning his name will be on it instead. It sounded a bit like foreshadowing to me. I have no idea what Robert's contract looks like, but it seems to me that the writers have driven him so far down the path of villainy that it's almost to the point of no return. Where do they even take his character next year? How do you write 22 more episodes for him after every evil thing he's done this season? As much as I love Rumple as a villain and love the actor, I feel like the writers have reached the end of his rope in terms of good storytelling, so it might be possible that they go out with a bang in the Season 4 finale, and what bigger twist could the show do at this point but transfer The Dark One power over to a new character?

 

Unless, the "cleaving" of the dagger plot is still at play here. Or have the writers completely dropped the whole Sorcerer's hat storyline? You'd think Rumple would still want Hook's heart to perform that ritual and find the author, or are "the stars in the sky not aligned with the stars in the hat" at the moment? [/eyeroll]

Edited March 24, 2015 by Curio