One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[chessiegal]

2 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

IRL, certainly. But this is the same show which had Luke physically throwing people out the door of the diner (I think one guy actually fell down) because he was upset over breaking up with Lorelai. It's ALL played for comedy, nothing more.

This a thousand times. You can't use real-life standards for a fictional show that is written for, in this case, both drama and comedy.

[Guest]

I'm currently imagining a scenario in which Sookie was really in jail in AYITL instead of just off, but it was kept a secret so only Lorelai knew. Michel was all angry thinking she had abandoned them, but really it was because she snuck meat into a vegan's meal.

[andromeda331]

Watching Twenty-One is the Loneliest Number today is one of many episodes I wonder why the Palladinos make Emily so awful. Emily referring to Lane twice as Rory's Asian friend? Why doesn't Emily know the name of Rory's best friend? She's had to hear about her for years and met her a few times. Rory gives her a look but doesn't say anything. Or having Emily muttering insults about guests who dared to show up early. Being rude to Luke is par for the course. There are so many episodes that would explain why Lorelai would cut her out of her life. The really worse part is we know the Palladinos can pull off mother and daughter coming together we see it play out with Lane and Mrs. Kim. Who would have guessed that? They were so different and when Lane comes to her defeated thinking Hep Alien is over you expect her mother to cheer, rejoice or something. Instead she says she didn't raise a quitter and organizes a tour. She's sympathetic earlier when Lane moves back in following Zach being an ass and doesn't call Lane on her 'tude until the end. When Zach comes to her to get her blessing to marry Lane she makes him write a song. She wants to know how he's going to support her daughter in the career they both actually want. Or when Mrs. Kim tells Lane after her second wedding that she's going home and going to put in the good earplugs? They end up with a good relationship. They have one more fight over how the twins would be raised but they work it out with Lorelai's help. The fight made sense and was in character. How it was resolved made sense too. Why couldn't we have Emily and Lorelai come together? That would have been more fun and interesting to watch the Emily get worse and wonder why Lorelai doesn't leave. Same with Richard and Lorelai.  

The beginning of the episode really makes me wish we got to see a Stars Hollow Halloween or maybe even two. Watching Babette hang Morey was awesome and hilarious at the same time. How many people would willing be hanged and pass out for their spouse for Halloween?

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Being rude to Luke is par for the course.

"This drink even tastes pink."

"It's not a dress Luke, you don't have to wear it."

Jebus, what a bitch. That's the thing about Emily. She's a bitch for no reason. Luke has never done anything to her. He is unfailingly polite to her in the face of all her insults and little digs. I'd be hard pressed not to punch her in the throat.

[clack]

Emily never made sense to me. She's a socialite with zero social skills.

[chessiegal]

I think Emily has the social skills she needs to get along in her social circle. She does get the first cup of tea after all. She seems to be well regarded by her DAR group. But she's a snob when it comes to people she thinks are "beneath" her, for the most part.

[chitowngirl]

She did a total 180 on Luke. When everyone was at the hospital with Richard, Emily told Luke that he and Lorelai were idiots for not dating. Then, years later, he’s not suitable. And not a suitable stepfather for Rory?? She was in college, she was done. And he was more of a stepfather to Rory than Christopher ever was a father.

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

She did a total 180 on Luke. When everyone was at the hospital with Richard, Emily told Luke that he and Lorelai were idiots for not dating. Then, years later, he’s not suitable. And not a suitable stepfather for Rory?? She was in college, she was done. And he was more of a stepfather to Rory than Christopher ever was a father.

Sing it Sister!

[clack]

47 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I think Emily has the social skills she needs to get along in her social circle. She does get the first cup of tea after all. She seems to be well regarded by her DAR group. But she's a snob when it comes to people she thinks are "beneath" her, for the most part.

Yeah, she's supposed to be on various charitable committees, but I don't believe the Emily we see would have ever been accepted amongst such circles in real life.

Snobbery and even bigotry is one thing, but being charmless, without conversation, rude to the help, and openly ungracious to her "social inferiors"would have made her persona non grata in charitable circles -- unless maybe she were filthy rich, which she is not.

[peacheslatour]

19 minutes ago, clack said:

Yeah, she's supposed to be on various charitable committees, but I don't believe the Emily we see would have ever been accepted amongst such circles in real life.

Snobbery and even bigotry is one thing, but being charmless, without conversation, rude to the help, and openly ungracious to her "social inferiors"would have made her persona non grata in charitable circles -- unless maybe she were filthy rich, which she is not.

My mother came from old money and she always taught me that the mark of quality was to treat everyone with respect, whether they be beggars on the street, waitstaff or the god damn queen of England.

[junienmomo]

12 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

She did a total 180 on Luke. When everyone was at the hospital with Richard, Emily told Luke that he and Lorelai were idiots for not dating. Then, years later, he’s not suitable. And not a suitable stepfather for Rory?? She was in college, she was done. And he was more of a stepfather to Rory than Christopher ever was a father.

On 11/7/2019 at 8:14 AM, andromeda331 said:

Watching Twenty-One is the Loneliest Number today is one of many episodes I wonder why the Palladinos make Emily so awful. Emily referring to Lane twice as Rory's Asian friend? Why doesn't Emily know the name of Rory's best friend? She's had to hear about her for years and met her a few times. Rory gives her a look but doesn't say anything. Or having Emily muttering insults about guests who dared to show up early. Being rude to Luke is par for the course.

When Emily called Lorelai out about Luke during a FND, she followed up Lorelai’s admission with “What in the world are you thinking?” She’s always been against Luke and even her Romanoffs comments weren’t acceptance, merely acknowledgement.

I think Emily was a product of her situation in life. It couldn’t have taken long to find out how much Trix hated her, and later to have only one child and no male child to inherit would have displeased Trix even more.

I can see but not excuse that Emily would throw herself into her job of corporate wife and society mother, but become bitter and cruel when it wasn’t the 1950’s version of happily ever after.

[chessiegal]

Good call on Trix. How could I forget how Trix not liking Emily must have affected Emily?

The Reigning Lorelai is one of my favorite episodes. Kelly Bishop knocked it out of the park with her performance, especially drunk Emily. "I wonder what Pennilyn Lott would do?" Hee.

[Katy M]

13 hours ago, junienmomo said:

think Emily was a product of her situation in life. It couldn’t have taken long to find out how much Trix hated her, and later to have only one child and no male child to inherit would have displeased Trix even more.

My paternal grandmother hated my mom.  Actually I don't think it was that personal, there was no Pennyln Lott.  She didn't want anyone taking her little boy away.  But, my mom didn't pass the hate on.  My grandmother also only had the one child with him only producing two girls, so double the disappointment, I guess.  Now that I think of it, my mom also found a letter that didn't make her too happy after my grandmother died.  It wasn't a carbon copy. It was a response from my grandmother's sister. But, the hateful original letter was easily discerned from it.  I never realized how much my life mirrored Gilmore Girls.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Good call on Trix. How could I forget how Trix not liking Emily must have affected Emily?

The Reigning Lorelai is one of my favorite episodes. Kelly Bishop knocked it out of the park with her performance, especially drunk Emily. "I wonder what Pennilyn Lott would do?" Hee.

I do love her in that one. Lorelai walking in and finding Emily in a nightgown, drinking with cigarette is hilarious. And I love Lorelai telling her on the day of the funeral to go up and put on a dress. Then clarifying a black dress.

[Kohola3]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I do love her in that one.

I think that scene was one of Emily's best in the whole series.  Slugging back the booze and sucking on a cigarette was so off character that I had to rerun it to make sure it was her. 

"Apparently we're a robe family now".   Heh.

[Taryn74]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I do love her in that one. Lorelai walking in and finding Emily in a nightgown, drinking with cigarette is hilarious. And I love Lorelai telling her on the day of the funeral to go up and put on a dress. Then clarifying a black dress.

Utterly hilarious!

Sookie - "I'm so sorry, Emily."  Emily (almost incredulously) - "Are you? Huh."

[Casseiopeia]

Okay probably a very unpopular opinion but having binge watched GG from Thanksgiving to Sunday my conclusion is that the Gilmores are horrible people....like really horrible. Lorelai and Rory abused every BF they had (even though other than Luke they were all pretty awful). I know that Dean gets trashed a lot but Jess was a whiny jerk, Tristan was worse, Logan was a pompous ass...just awful awful people with no redeeming qualities. Max, Jake, Christopher were all pushy and needy....constantly groveling...just ugh! Dean was right when he told Luke that Lorelai would just use him and then cast him aside as soon as he became inconvenient or Lorelai found another shiny penny. Rory wasn't any different. Committed relationship was a foreign concept to Rory.

 Emily treated her staff like trash and Lorelai and Rory never ever said a damn thing. They needed the Gilmore money so they just ignored it. Richard came around some but he crushed anyone who got in his way. I know they tried to make him into a big old teddy bear but he was pretty much a one dimensional character. None of the tear jerking moments jerked a single tear. 

The only character I really liked was Paris.

And what the hell was with random street singers who couldn't sing and everyone ignored!! Was that supposed to be funny? Quirky? What? It was annoying!

I loved that in the revival Rory was pretty much a loser and Dean lived happily ever after.

[Rachel81]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Okay probably a very unpopular opinion but having binge watched GG from Thanksgiving to Sunday my conclusion is that the Gilmores are horrible people....like really horrible. Lorelai and Rory abused every BF they had (even though other than Luke they were all pretty awful). I know that Dean gets trashed a lot but Jess was a whiny jerk, Tristan was worse, Logan was a pompous ass...just awful awful people with no redeeming qualities. Max, Jake, Christopher were all pushy and needy....constantly groveling...just ugh! Dean was right when he told Luke that Lorelai would just use him and then cast him aside as soon as he became inconvenient or Lorelai found another shiny penny. Rory wasn't any different. Committed relationship was a foreign concept to Rory.

 Emily treated her staff like trash and Lorelai and Rory never ever said a damn thing. They needed the Gilmore money so they just ignored it. Richard came around some but he crushed anyone who got in his way. I know they tried to make him into a big old teddy bear but he was pretty much a one dimensional character. None of the tear jerking moments jerked a single tear. 

The only character I really liked was Paris.

And what the hell was with random street singers who couldn't sing and everyone ignored!! Was that supposed to be funny? Quirky? What? It was annoying!

I loved that in the revival Rory was pretty much a loser and Dean lived happily ever after.

I wish I could give this more than one heart react. It's gotten to the point now where I'm struggling to even have GG on as background noise because the characters are all such awful people. 

[junienmomo]

8 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Lorelai and Rory abused every BF they had (even though other than Luke they were all pretty awful).

You are definitely not alone here. 

They were frequently inconsiderate of others, sometimes to the point of damaging their relationships. Sadly, Lorelai occasionally says things that seem to reinforce her sense of entitlement. During her teen years I think Rory only used her mother as a role model.

I really wanted them to be strong characters with some growth. Instead it seemed Lorelai faded when her coquettish ways didn’t seem to work any more, and Rory never seemed to steadily trust herself and her abilities.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, junienmomo said:

Instead it seemed Lorelai faded when her coquettish ways didn’t seem to work any more....

I was honest to goodness embarrassed for Lorelai in the Revival when she was trying to flirt her way past the park ranger or whoever he was. No, Lorelai. Just no. Your time to flirt your way out of situations with men is past, sorry to break it to you.

(It's funny when Babette and Miss Patty do it because they don't take themselves seriously. Lorelai was still taking herself seriously.)

[elang4]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

I was honest to goodness embarrassed for Lorelai in the Revival when she was trying to flirt her way past the park ranger or whoever he was. No, Lorelai. Just no. Your time to flirt your way out of situations with men is past, sorry to break it to you.

(It's funny when Babette and Miss Patty do it because they don't take themselves seriously. Lorelai was still taking herself seriously.)

To be fair though, I think they only had that in because he was Lauren’s real life partner and it was funny.

[Taryn74]

35 minutes ago, elang4 said:

To be fair though, I think they only had that in because he was Lauren’s real life partner and it was funny.

Oh, I'm sure that's why they chose him to be the Park Ranger, but Lorelai has been flirting her way out of situations the entire time we've known her, LOL. Sometimes it's cute and funny. Sometimes it really, really is not.

[elang4]

4 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Oh, I'm sure that's why they chose him to be the Park Ranger, but Lorelai has been flirting her way out of situations the entire time we've known her, LOL. Sometimes it's cute and funny. Sometimes it really, really is not.

Yeah, I guess that’s true. 

[blondiec0332]

16 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

The only character I really liked was Paris.

When I originally watched the show I didn't like Paris. But when I did rewatch I liked her.  There is something about rewatching a show and understanding the characters better because you know what they are going to do in future episodes.

[Katy M]

16 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Dean was right when he told Luke that Lorelai would just use him and then cast him aside as soon as he became inconvenient or Lorelai found another shiny penny.

Yeah, but I kind of feel like Dean didn't have a leg to stand on.  He married Lindsay while still being in love with Rory and went running back to her the second she indicated one iota of willingness.  I mean, sure, you can make the very real argument that Dean and Lindsay were young and stupid and made a big, huge mistake, which everyone in their lives just seemed to let happen without uttering even one word of caution. But, that doesn't make cheating OK.

16 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

The only character I really liked was Paris.

I liked Paris, more later than earlier.  I also liked Lane, Luke and Kirk. Kirk, obviously just as comic relief. He bears very little resemblance to an actual human being, but I can't help but love him anyway.

[Katy M]

5 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Oh, I'm sure that's why they chose him to be the Park Ranger, but Lorelai has been flirting her way out of situations the entire time we've known her, LOL. Sometimes it's cute and funny. Sometimes it really, really is not.

I think I'm in the minority, but I always agreed with Richard re: the linen supply guy.  She was completely inappropriate.  And her excuse of "I said what I had to say to get the linens" made no sense to me.  If there were linens to be had, I don't know why a fake offer of sex would get them for her. If the guy didn't know the offer was fake, there may be worse problems later.  An offer of one of Suki's world famous desserts would have made more sense to me.  At least he would actually get something.

[Taryn74]

40 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think I'm in the minority, but I always agreed with Richard re: the linen supply guy.  She was completely inappropriate.  

No kidding. Can you imagine if it had been a man talking to customers/suppliers like that? Say, for instance, Luke telling female customers that if they show a little leg (or something cruder, if this weren't a family-friendly show) they'll get their orders first? Jeebus. 

[ghoulina]

To me, most of the GG characters were just typical, flawed, complicated people - but those flaws were overblown in a campy, enjoyable-television kind of way. I generally don't take the show that seriously. (Except when I do.)

Emily is my favourite character. Of course she's awful half the time, but she also has moments of humility, kindness, and growth. And she's hilarious!

The only characters I really hated were Chris and Logan (and maybe Rory, in the seasons after her freshman year of college).

[Katy M]

18 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

The only characters I really hated were Chris and Logan (and maybe Rory, in the seasons after her freshman year of college).

I think I really hated post season 4 Rory, Logan and Digger.  I don't even really hate Chris.  Most of the characters I don't love or hate.  But, yeah, I do find it an enjoyable show to just watch and not take overly serious.  But, I don't actually watch much post season 4, because then it gets harder for me to take lightly.

Ooh, super unpopular opinion--I think April is the best thing about whichever season she was in.  I forgot about her due to my not watching the later seasons as much, but I'll add her to my like list.  I like April, and I don't care what anybody else says.

[chessiegal]

I don't mind the character April. I hated that ASP used it as a plot device.

[elang4]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

I don't mind the character April. I hated that ASP used it as a plot device.

Same! I loved April and was so hoping for scenes with her, Luke, Lorelai and Rory as a proper family. I thought that would be really cool. I always believed that Rory and April would get on really well and it would have been nice to see that sibling relationship and them teasing Lorelai and Luke. Even maybe with Jess thrown in every so often as well. I’ve read some fan fiction with them all as a family and I would have loved to have seen that on screen.

[Casseiopeia]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yeah, but I kind of feel like Dean didn't have a leg to stand on.  He married Lindsay while still being in love with Rory and went running back to her the second she indicated one iota of willingness.  I mean, sure, you can make the very real argument that Dean and Lindsay were young and stupid and made a big, huge mistake, which everyone in their lives just seemed to let happen without uttering even one word of caution. But, that doesn't make cheating OK.

I'm not defending Dean but Lindsay was a spoiled brat that wanted things Dean couldn't give her at 18. Even though he was working 3 jobs she was constantly bitching at him to "play with meeee...I'm bored". Like I said very few characters on the show were very likable.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Casseiopeia said:

I'm not defending Dean but Lindsay was a spoiled brat that wanted things Dean couldn't give her at 18. Even though he was working 3 jobs she was constantly bitching at him to "play with meeee...I'm bored". Like I said very few characters on the show were very likable.

Getting married was a mutual mistake.  And Lindsay thought that their marriage could be just like her parents' (I assume). Theoretically, I wish that someone had sat down with them. Their parents, a minister, a marriage counselor. Someone. I'm really big on pre-marital counselling.  It really helps to make sure everyone is on the same page, especially on stuff that the couple might not be thinking about.  And the younger the couple is, the more helpful the info.  But, anyway, yes, mistakes were made by all.  But, basically I'm a big old adulterophobe, so I'm not going to blame Lindsay for Dean and Rory's actions.  Dean and Lindsay needed to talk with someone.  The marriage probably would have ended anyway, but it needed to end before the sex.

And, actually, I think my main point with my first post, was that maybe Dean shouldn't be judging other people for seeing "shiny new objects" and bailing on relationships.

[Casseiopeia]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Getting married was a mutual mistake.  And Lindsay thought that their marriage could be just like her parents' (I assume). Theoretically, I wish that someone had sat down with them. Their parents, a minister, a marriage counselor. Someone. I'm really big on pre-marital counselling.  It really helps to make sure everyone is on the same page, especially on stuff that the couple might not be thinking about.  And the younger the couple is, the more helpful the info.  But, anyway, yes, mistakes were made by all.  But, basically I'm a big old adulterophobe, so I'm not going to blame Lindsay for Dean and Rory's actions.  Dean and Lindsay needed to talk with someone.  The marriage probably would have ended anyway, but it needed to end before the sex.

And, actually, I think my main point with my first post, was that maybe Dean shouldn't be judging other people for seeing "shiny new objects" and bailing on relationships.

Rory was kind of a tarnished old object.  Honestly I couldn't see what any of those guys saw in her.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Rory was kind of a tarnished old object.  Honestly I couldn't see what any of those guys saw in her.

I told my hubby about what we are discussing and his only comment was "What did she see in them?" So maybe from a guy's perspective, Rory was catch?

[Katy M]

22 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I told my hubby about what we are discussing and his only comment was "What did she see in them?" So maybe from a guy's perspective, Rory was catch?

Well, I'm not a guy, but she's pretty enough.  She's nice when she wants to be. And she has that whole damsel in distress thing going on.  Plus, she's a good conversationalist, as in she's not a total airhead and she can discuss ideas and topics competently.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Well, I'm not a guy, but she's pretty enough.  She's nice when she wants to be. And she has that whole damsel in distress thing going on.  Plus, she's a good conversationalist, as in she's not a total airhead and she can discuss ideas and topics competently.

She also is what we used to call an Ivory Girl. As in Ivory soap. That squeaky clean, healthy, fresh faced good breeding stock kind of look. Guys dig that.

[andromeda331]

They created great characters. They had a lot of great characters with a lot to work with.  Instead they chose to make their characters worse while also hitting the same beats.  

Lorelai was interesting as someone who made a mistake at sixteen got pregnant, had a kid that she raised on her own. I liked a lot of her jokes and her confidence. She also worked hard, worked her way up and dreamed of opening an inn with her best friend who she was lucky to be able to work every day with her best friend. She was a good mom. I loved her and Rory's relationship. She also wasn't afraid to pull the "Mom" card when she needed too. Like in the pilot episode when Rory suddenly didn't want to go to Chilton because she met Dean. I liked towards the end of season when she's talking to Rory after learning Rory freaked out when Dean told her he loved her. Lorelai remarks that she hadn't thought what she was suppose to be teaching Rory when it came to that stuff. Which makes sense. She was sixteen and then spend the following sixteen years raising a kid and building a life. She was flaws that seemed like she would over come. For all the mistakes she made dating Max it was the first relationship she had since Christopher sixteen years before. 

Rory was a nice kid. She was shy, polite, quiet kid who loved books, school, and hanging out with her mom. She's also knows she's the reason her mother split from her grandparents, the reason her mother never went to college and did something with her life due to her mother getting pregnant at sixteen. She has pressure from her mother and grandparents to succeed at Chilton, Havard/Yale and go on to a good career. She tries to fix their relationship because she believes she's responsible for it being so bad. There was so much they could have done with that. Breaking under the pressure. Become more outgoing and trying new things. Instead they make her become more and more horrible, selfish, cheater, and spoiled while everyone still treats her like a perfect angel. 

Even characters I hated like Emily. They showed us moments of that Emily did want a relationship with her daughter. But not only do they never do that it goes away. They turn Emily into a horrible snobby bitch who constantly insults and treats her daughter like crap. That wasn't fun to watch. You know what was? Emily freaking out in the Third Lorelai after Trix makes that offer that she's going to lose Lorelai. Emily telling Richard that once Lorelai has the money she won't come back. Richard not  able to say anything to disagree. Or her confusion with Lorelai coming by to hang. They had so much to work with between Richard, Emily and Lorelai. It easily could have taken seven seasons to work it out and build a real relationship with them.  We know they can do that because they did with Lane and Mrs. Kim but they didn't.

After years of waiting for them to put Luke and Lorelai together and showing how great they would be. They had so much to work with them dating, moving in together. Luke's mostly lived by himself for decades and Lorelai's never lived with a man before, and getting married. They decided to destroy it by having Lorelai lie about something as stupid as visiting Christopher after his father died and giving Luke a long lost daughter. Making sure Luke comes off real bad by making him give that big speech about honesty by lying about it. Then shutting Lorelai out.  Lorelai suddenly freaking out so much about getting married and acting like this is a big deal. Without any real reason. They probably would have delayed the wedding a year at most. Yeah that was so much better then watching the two come together, dealing with relationship issues as they dated, moved in and married.

[clack]

ASP made up the show as she went along. What we got to see was a messy first draft of a long-form narrative that, in an ideal world, might have been truly excellent if given a polish, as a movie script or a novel might have be given multiple drafts. The basics were there : interesting characters, involving relationships, a charming, cozy setting.

I sometimes fantasize about what a GG reboot would entail. All those wrongheaded plot lines eliminated or revamped  -- the marriages of Lane and Dean, Rory's affair with Dean, etc. All those relationships truncated or distorted because of actor availability -- Christopher not there for Rory's graduation, the Tristan story line that was set upped only to peter out, etc. -- could be revised.

Everthing might be given a sharper focus on the people, relationships, and events that, in the end, mattered.

[junienmomo]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They created great characters. They had a lot of great characters with a lot to work with.  Instead they chose to make their characters worse while also hitting the same beats.  

Andromeda, you have described my thoughts and feelings so well.

I loved the way it started. Foolish optimist that I am, I hung in there way past the point I should have given up. Funny how rewatching didn’t seem to fix some things that desperately needed to be fixed.

The remaining unresolved wish I have for GG is that the studio would have given the writers an editor with the power to fix the biggest problems.

Once upon a time when I started watching GG, I had been studying the Hero’s Journey, a pattern for good story arcs. I began tracing the major characters’ arcs, looking for those elements of character development.

They never came. 😞 

Edited December 8, 2019 by junienmomo

[readster]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:14 AM, andromeda331 said:

Watching Twenty-One is the Loneliest Number today is one of many episodes I wonder why the Palladinos make Emily so awful. Emily referring to Lane twice as Rory's Asian friend? Why doesn't Emily know the name of Rory's best friend? She's had to hear about her for years and met her a few times. Rory gives her a look but doesn't say anything. Or having Emily muttering insults about guests who dared to show up early. Being rude to Luke is par for the course. There are so many episodes that would explain why Lorelai would cut her out of her life. The really worse part is we know the Palladinos can pull off mother and daughter coming together we see it play out with Lane and Mrs. Kim. Who would have guessed that? They were so different and when Lane comes to her defeated thinking Hep Alien is over you expect her mother to cheer, rejoice or something. Instead she says she didn't raise a quitter and organizes a tour. She's sympathetic earlier when Lane moves back in following Zach being an ass and doesn't call Lane on her 'tude until the end. When Zach comes to her to get her blessing to marry Lane she makes him write a song. She wants to know how he's going to support her daughter in the career they both actually want. Or when Mrs. Kim tells Lane after her second wedding that she's going home and going to put in the good earplugs? They end up with a good relationship. They have one more fight over how the twins would be raised but they work it out with Lorelai's help. The fight made sense and was in character. How it was resolved made sense too. Why couldn't we have Emily and Lorelai come together? That would have been more fun and interesting to watch the Emily get worse and wonder why Lorelai doesn't leave. Same with Richard and Lorelai.  

The beginning of the episode really makes me wish we got to see a Stars Hollow Halloween or maybe even two. Watching Babette hang Morey was awesome and hilarious at the same time. How many people would willing be hanged and pass out for their spouse for Halloween?

How true, and I think things made more sense when Mrs. Kim found all of Lane's hidden CDs and so forth. While, it was a classic: "kid misinterprets what the parent really wants." HOWEVER... Lane felt like that since she was little, Mrs. Kim feeling that what was "popular" or "normal" for kids was wrong. Then add in the fact that Mr. Kim wasn't around in the series because he was: "Travelling to keep a roof over their heads." SInce Mrs. Kim's business attitude was: "Buy or get out!" Then when Lane was looking at college, Mrs. Kim wanted Lane to go to "her choices" not Lane's. When the episode finally hits and even Mrs. Kim's: "Children shouldn't make the rules" you can tell how heart broken and also in that moment, she made her own child want to hide her life from her because Lane "felt" Mrs. Kim would have gone beszertk and destroyed everything. Then we see, she would have been very supportive and even shows her support in actual logical reasons. Even after the revelation that Mrs. Kim was a hypocritical when she has been hiding her life from Grandma Kim for over 20 years. You see Lane going: "Wow, we are more a like than we thought." The arguments with the twins raising and so forth, made complete sense and were still in character. 

  One thing I will not excuse is AS-P and her husband's writing of Lane and Zach's sexual experience that got them twins and then basically them feeling ashamed they had not only "honeymoon babies" but then basically wrote off sex. Yet, we were  hit over the head that Lorelai and Chris having sex constantly or coming back to just sleep with other was "love" and people who despite me hating Zach's character because Adam Browly got a "real job" on The OC and left the show. God forbid if AS-P and her husband showed that people have natural problems, maybe bumps in the road, but have both a healthy and regular sex life. No, by the time we get to the revival, they are in a nice house, Hep Alien is still basically a hobby and Zach is: "Damn, I'm a general manager at the local grocery story when I should be a rock and roll star, but I have to pay the bills." Well, sorry Zach, life happens!

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, readster said:

God forbid if AS-P and her husband showed that people have natural problems, maybe bumps in the road, but have both a healthy and regular sex life.

I always assumed that they just dropped it, but that a regular happy sex life was picked up at some point.  I know that Zach loves Lane and I know that sex isn't the most important aspect of a relationship, but I don't see him sticking around for 20 years, or however long it's been, in a sexless marriage.  I think we just didn't see the conversation.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Taryn74]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I always assumed that they just dropped it, but that a regular happy sex life was picked up at some point.  I know that Zach loves Lane and I know that sex isn't the most important aspect of a relationship, but I don't see him sticking around for 20 years, or however long it's been, in a sexless marriage.  I think we just didn't see the conversation.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Yes, they definitely got over the "awful first experience" (which was just inflated by resulting in a surprise pregnancy) and went on to have a normal sex life.

[Rachel81]

53 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I always assumed that they just dropped it, but that a regular happy sex life was picked up at some point.  I know that Zach loves Lane and I know that sex isn't the most important aspect of a relationship, but I don't see him sticking around for 20 years, or however long it's been, in a sexless marriage.  I think we just didn't see the conversation.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I assumed the same. I'd like to think Lane eased up with Rory's encouragement to try sex again -- on a bed! No sand. Sand bad. Yowch. 

[Katy M]

Good.  Glad I'm not the only one.  I was on another board where most people seemed to think that Lane and Zach were resigned to a life of celibacy. This was before the revival.  I don't know if the fact that they were still together, or if anything happened in the revival, to change their minds.  If the show runners wanted to make it clear without having them discuss it, they could have thrown in another kid.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Good.  Glad I'm not the only one.  I was on another board where most people seemed to think that Lane and Zach were resigned to a life of celibacy. 

LOL for real? Good grief. That makes zero sense. It's not like a disappointingly bad first experience (for Lane, no indication that Zach was a virgin unless he was just pretending he was more of a ladies man than he really was when we first met him) is all that uncommon. People get over it and go on to have sex again, they really do.

Even the show had that one scene where they practically jumped on each other and did it on the kitchen counter, a few weeks after the pregnancy shock had worn off and they realized maybe things weren't so bad after all.

[marineg]

I agree with you all about Lane and Zach's sex life. I remember a scene in Gilmore Girls Only, when Lane is about to have the babies, Zach works at the diner, and they invite Luke for dinner. They have this exchange:

Quote

ZACH: No, it's okay. Besides, they say one of the things you can do to help induce labor is have a glass of wine.
ZACH: That or sex.
LUKE: Well, I can only help you with the wine.
[Laughter]

Personally, the way Zach said "That or sex," definitely made me believe that they were having sex. You'd have to watch the moment exactly to hear the tone of voice and Lane's giggle, and they way they looked at each other. It wasn't at all Lane being disgusted about having sex like she was right after her honeymoon! To me, she took Rory's advice, and they had sex, probably before she became huge and had the twins!

Edited December 10, 2019 by marineg

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, marineg said:

I agree with you all about Lane and Zach's sex life. I remember a scene in Gilmore Girls Only, when Lane is about to have the babies, Zach works at the diner, and they invite Luke for diner. They have this exchange:

Personally, the way Zach said "That or sex," definitely made me believe that they were having sex. You'd have to watch the moment exactly to hear the toe of voice and Lane's giggle, and they way they looked at each other. It wasn't at all Lane being disgusted about having sex like she was right after her honeymoon! To me, she took Rory's advice, and they had sex, probably before she became huge and had the twins!

Second trimester? Yup, I was a total nympho during that time.

[andromeda331]

I assumed they were having sex too. They just had a bad experience the first time around. Lane seemed a little better after she talked to Rory who suggested a bed and comforter. They got over it and had good sex. 

[Bruni]

I'm another that thinks Luke & Lorelai never really worked as a couple. I don't feel the supposed chemistry. They also lacked communication skills. It was painful to watch at times, the arguing and then sulking/not talking. I don't know if Jason was the guy for the long haul, but he and Lorelai seemed suited to each other in many ways.