One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[Katy M]

32 minutes ago, marineg said:

Yes, but they barely show her in an actual English class. And why isn't her major journalism?

I thought her major was journalism. but, if it's not, I have seen in the nitpick section people saying that Yale doesn't have a journalism major, so that could be why.

[marineg]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I thought her major was journalism. but, if it's not, I have seen in the nitpick section people saying that Yale doesn't have a journalism major, so that could be why.

Yeah, remember that episode when Logan has dinner with his co-workers from London, and there's that leggy woman? Rory tells her her major is English.

And yeah, I just checked and Yale doesn't have a journalism program. I'm surprised ASP checked though, seeing as she made so many mistakes in the "college world".

 

Follow up: when Rory made her school choices, why didn't she pick a school with an actual journalism program? I know first hand that my university has one of the best COM programs, including journalism. Did she just want to go to an Ivy school, even if it didn't offer the classes she wanted?

Edited January 15, 2019 by marineg

[tarotx]

I don't think Rory's major was actually mentioned until s7. I could be wrong though.

Rory does joke in, But Not as Cute as Pushkin, that a girl in her modern poetry class was kicking her chair. So there is at least one class that would fit that major.

I'm the revival, Rory tells Taylor that she has a journalism degree from Yale. but it"s believable that it was just easier to say that then to go into detail about how Yale degrees work.

Edited January 15, 2019 by tarotx

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, tarotx said:

I don't think Rory's major was actually mentioned until s7. I could be wrong though.

Rory does joke in, But Not as Cute as Pushkin, that a girl in her modern poetry class was kicking her chair. So there is at least one class that would fit that major.

I'm the revival, Rory tells Taylor that she has a journalism degree from Yale. but it"s believable that it was just easier to say that then to go into detail about how Yale degrees work.

In season one she tells Headmaster Charleston that she wants to be a journalist like Christiane Amanpour.

[tarotx]

13 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

In season one she tells Headmaster Charleston that she wants to be a journalist like Christiane Amanpour.

I know she wants to be a journalist. It's mentioned a lot. I'm talking about her Yale major. 

[marineg]

In the Great Stink, there is this exchange:

BOBBI: So, Rory, we've barely had the opportunity to speak all night.
RORY: I know.
BOBBI: How's school? What's your major?
RORY: English.
BOBBI: Oh, god, how fantastic. I swear when I was at oxford, I did nothing but read literature. It was such a luxury.

[andromeda331]

I always wondered why Rory didn't even apply to colleges with a journalism degree like Columbia which has the Journalism Grad School. Princeton and Harvard didn't either.

[tarotx]

2 hours ago, marineg said:

In the Great Stink, there is this exchange:

BOBBI: So, Rory, we've barely had the opportunity to speak all night.
RORY: I know.
BOBBI: How's school? What's your major?
RORY: English.
BOBBI: Oh, god, how fantastic. I swear when I was at oxford, I did nothing but read literature. It was such a luxury.

Is s7 the only time her English major is mentioned? She does have a lot of economic and philosophy classes.

[scarynikki12]

In the season 3 finale, when Lorelai reveals that her birthday check from Richard magically prevents Rory from getting financial aid ::pauses to search for eyes after they rolled so hard they fell out of head::, Rory goes on a panicked rant about how she'll major in something that makes a lot of money and Lorelai responds with "you're not changing your major from journalism".  So, the Ps clearly thought Yale offered journalism as a major.  It was only in season 7, when they were gone, that the show revealed that Rory had a major that was actually offered at that school.  This was one of the many areas where the Ps lack of knowledge on a subject was particularly glaring, because the simplest way to handle Rory's major was to have it be Poli Sci (which I believe Yale does offer), work on the paper, and then continue on to Columbia for journalism school.  Columbia is a prestige program, worthy of Saint Rory, and a logical continuation of her story.  I've posted all this before so I won't rehash it but I can't believe that wasn't given serious consideration.  Well, I can, because I don't think Rory was ever truly cut out for journalism no matter what she or the other characters would say* and the tongue bathing she was given whenever she did something related to the paper was annoying. 

*The fact that she waited until her junior year to join the paper, and no indication that she'd been a part of the Stars Hollow High school paper before transferring, tells me that she didn't really care about pursuing it as much as she led people to believe.  Meanwhile at my high school plenty of kids joined the school paper as freshman and stayed with it the entire time, even if only to look good on college applications.

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

*The fact that she waited until her junior year to join the paper,

High school or Yale?  She was definitely on the Yale paper from Freshman year on.  She was writing pieces about some sport she had never heard of and wrote that review of the ballet.  Hight school, I'm pretty sure she was on the paper her first year at Chilton (sophomore) because Paris had her do that interview with Max. That was the first year, right? If not, maybe Chilton wouldn't let her be on the paper because she was failing a class, or not.  As far as SHH, we don't even know if they had a paper.  Or that she wasn't on it if they did.  

[scarynikki12]

The Max interview was junior year. I think they didn’t have room for any paper stories until season 2 but they had made such a point of having Louise tease Paris about Rory going out for the Franklin in the second episode and then...nothing for a whole year. Well, almost a whole year. They did have the season 1 finale conversation between Paris and Rory where Paris reveals she’s officially the new editor. But that means that Paris was already on the paper as a sophomore so what was Rory waiting for? I guess Paris’ “THE FRANKLIN IS MY DOMAIN” threat during their first meeting was so intimidating that Rory took the year to emotionally prepare. 

[scarynikki12]

Also, at no point during either Paris going over Rory’s file or the meeting with Charleston when he discussed the same file,  does participation in the Stars Hollow school paper come up. I can buy that they didn’t have one but that’s all the more reason for Rory to join the paper immediately rather than wait a year. 

[Katy M]

She started after the school year started.  Maybe all the spots were full and she wasn't allowed to join.  But, seriously, there is no way she could have handled the paper that first year.  Again, she was failing at least one of her classes.  Or at least Ding it.  I'm sure a school like that has a C requirement for extracurriculars.

[copperboom]

Hello, I am new to the forum and to Gilmore Girls. I wanted to share some of my unpopular opinions.

 

1. I like Logan. I see him as I see most Gilmore Girls characters as an exaGGeration. As I had friends in college who were drinkers and did cause property damage to playing a game with pool balls while drunk, I saw him as a very, very dramatized version of that. I think his true problem was that I don't think ASP had a plan for him.

2. I think Lorelai leaving with Rory makes sense if she had depression caused by postpartum hormones. She would have been stuck in the house with Emily and Rory by herself for the majority of the day (as it appears she never resumed going to school). Since Emily could be critical on the best days, I am sure she was a nightmare to deal with when also adjusting to a new normal and getting by a truckload of hormones. This is also when Lorelai presumably told Emily and Richard that she was not going to marry Christopher. As Emily can't let that go during the series, I would imagine Lorelai was constantly hearing about it then.

 

Lorelai then left with no plan with baby Rory. As Lorelai tried to put Rory's needs before her own during the series, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have here unless Lorelai was just in that bad of a place emotionally. I think she felt like she had to get away, no matter what.

 

Here's the thing about depression though. It is hard to explain to others why their actions hurt so much and why you don't feel about things the same way as others. When Richard asks Lorelai what he and Emily did to deserve how she treated them, Lorelai had no answer. However with depression, it would be how she felt and not necessarily what they did. I think there is some familial precedence for depression as Emily spent a month in bed after Lorelai left. Given the Gilmores' feelings towards mental health, I highly doubt they would have sought help for Lorelai even if she needed it. 

3. I hate, hate, hate Hammers and Veils due to Rory's storyline. Hammers and Veils is the 2nd episode of season 2 which puts it the summer before Rory's 11th grade year. That only gives her a year and a bit of extracurriculars on her college applications. I'm sorry, but that's not going to get you into to Harvard, much less 3 Ivies. If she had really done that little, Harvard would have laughed at her application and promptly tossed into the reject pile. A much more realistic storyline would have been for Paris to make some crack about how Rory's activities in her hick town not counting and Rory freaking out until she got a chance to speak to her guidance counselor. Any guidance counselor worth her salt would know how to spin that.  For instance, they could have had Taylor as selectman write a reference letter which might have been a hilarious scene to watch. Instead, the Palladinos made Rory a nitwit who had very little idea of what was required to get into a good state school, much less the Ivy League.

Thank-you for letting me express my opinions. I love this show, despite its flaws.

Edited January 18, 2019 by copperboom

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, copperboom said:

5. As a related UO, Liz should never been cast. I feel like the Palladinos wanted Jess to be the misunderstood bad boy, potentially with a heart of gold (my brain's jury is still out on that). By casting Liz and making her an airy fairy type who just goes wherever the wind takes her, they hurt Jess' and their own credibility. They told us that Jess would be better off away from his mom when he came to Stars Hollow. Yet, when Liz shows up, she is fairly harmless, if a little inconsiderate. It makes it seem like Luke and Jess have been complaining about her the entire time for no reason.

But, if as you said, she was on drugs before and now off them, that would change her personality.

 

15 minutes ago, copperboom said:

6. Lorelai should never have allowed Rory and Jess to go out. Jess was not in a place to have a healthy relationship. His relationship models were Luke and Liz, neither of whom had a stable relationship history. Rory and Jess' relationship ended up imploding due to the fact that he didn't know how to be in a relationship. Rory and Lorelai ended up being his relationship tutors which wasn't fair to any of them.

Rory and Jess didn't start dating until senior year.  Jess wasn't an active criminal (mostly).  It would have been overly controlling of Lorelai to decide who Rory could and couldn't date barring an actually dangerous situation.  Although, thinking back, I wish my mom had barred my sister's junior year bf, but that's another story.

 

16 minutes ago, copperboom said:

Both have fidelity issues: Chris with Lorelai and Sherry and Rory with Dean and Jess.

But Lorelai also has fidelity issues.

 

17 minutes ago, copperboom said:

what the heck is Lorelai Gilmore 4.0's nickname going to be?

Lori?  Relay?  Lolo? Lola?  

[coffeecoffeecoffee]

This heavily addictive show has sucked me in yet again. Is there as 12 step program for GGaholics? As other people have pointed out, even when I don't always like this show, I still love it. And every time I watch it, my intake of caffeine and junk food mysteriously triples.

Disclaimer for all of the below: these are just my opinions, and not even articulate ones. I know everyone interprets things about this and every other work of fiction differently, so I'm definitely not trying to assert my views as facts even when I'm too lazy to qualify my statements with "in my opinion" and "that's just me" :-)

I'm at the beginning of season 3, and I'm ashamed to admit that I've been pulled back on board the never quite steady "ship" that is Rory and Jess. Sometimes actors who date in real life seem to have very little onscreen chemistry, but Milo and Alexis have a connection that I can practically feel through the screen. I almost feel like I'm watching them fall in love. It's not just physical attraction. I look at Rory-Jess and have similar thoughts that I do about Luke-Lorelai, that they implicitly understand each other, that they challenge each other to be better but accept each other's flaws, that there's this magnetic pull between them that not even time and various irritating plot contrivances can weaken. Jess is an insolent jerk too often back then, but as we've established, all of the characters' flaws tend to be exaGGerated. I have to admit that keeping in mind how much more mature and thoughtful he becomes later on makes me a bit more tolerant of his adolescent obnoxiousness. Maybe my own experiences and CW shows have desensitized me to teen behavior, but I actually don't see Jess as that bad in season 2, and even then I see his good points - he's smart, resourceful, thinks for himself, and when it comes down to it, I don't doubt that he does genuinely care about Rory and Luke. Maybe I'm too ready to forgive what a defiant wiseass he is, but I've known my fair share of teens like Jess who lashed out due partly to pain and anger but became happy and productive adults. If I had been brought up by Liz and her rapidly rotating slew of assh*le significant others, I'd have had many of Jess's same issues with trust, communication and attitude. But maybe I'm being too easy on him because I'm so taken by the Rory-Jess chemistry and because I now know when I watch that he evolves while nearly everyone else regresses.

And as a charter member of the But Rory was ALWAYS Kind of Awful club, I have to admit that I had forgotten how much more likable less awful she used to be. She always has her share of issues - fearing conflict to the point where she lets others take the blame, the way she represses too much until she suddenly does something really impulsive and unwise, and her borderline callous obliviousness and lack of honesty about how she really feels and therefore how she treats people. Even during the high school years, the writers do her no favors by giving her little rewards that she doesn't seem to deliberately strive for or even necessarily want. The Puffs immediately like and accept her without her trying. She wins the class vice-presidency that she had to be persuaded into accepting at the last minute. Tristan remains interested in her despite her continually blowing him off. The entire town adores her seemingly for no real reason other than because she's moderately polite and reads books. Then of course there's her getting into Harvard, Yale and Princeton. I know none of these would be that big a deal on their own, but taken as a whole, it all adds up to things being unrealistically easy for Rory, which is never the recipe for creating the most believable and rootable characters. And I'm not even getting into the later years, like the cringey ridiculousness in season 6 with people having to beg Rory to take the editorship of Yale Daily News despite the fact that she had dropped out and not even shown up there the previous semester. AND - no, not getting into it :-)

I think the point I was trying to make when I started typing the above paragraph way too many minutes ago was that Rory did always have flaws and was always a bit mishandled by the writers, but back then she also had qualities that I really love and relate to, and it makes all the difference. Unlike some others, I don't blame Logan and his douchey frat boy hangers on. I think that by then Rory had already changed, in ways the writers intended and maybe some they didn't, and the fact that she'd gravitate towards those people and their lifestyle was symptomatic of that change, not the cause. You can tell from the beginning that the writers were always going to show Rory exploring her grandparents' world. [The writers really do see different socioeconomic classes as entirely different worlds, galaxies even, which in my experience is another exaGGerated aspect of the series] I get why that's part of the narrative, but I just happen not to enjoy watching Rory immerse herself in the lifestyle her mother left behind, and I think they could have done it in a different way while allowing Rory to retain more of the qualities that made her so much more likeable (TO ME!!) during high school.  And she and Logan should have been over a lot earlier, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

I got so caught up talking about Jess, Rory and Jess-Rory that I forgot another supremely unpopular opinion: generally speaking, I actually prefer to rewatch the episodes without Emily and Richard or where they just make a brief appearance. They're interesting characters played by superb actors, and there's no denying their importance to the show's themes and storylines. But GG is my relaxant and mood elevator, the tv equivalent of a warm blanket and hot chocolate, and Emily and Richard's presence tends to stress me out. The conflicts between them and Lorelai start to seem too repetitive, and I usually get where both sides are coming from, but I also just want them to all move the heck on. I understand that family dysfunction is hard to break out of, but watching them have essentially the same arguments about the same issues for years tires me out! And like someone here observed, it's hard to find it that touching when they have lovely little moments and appear to make headway since we know that they always go sprinting right back to square one by the next episode. 

Major conflicts between Luke-Lorelai or Lorelai-Rory stress me out too. I know rationally that there's no story without conflict, but when it comes down to it, I just watch my favorite fictional people bonding and swapping clever references :-)  

I don't know which seasons are more or less popular, but I think season 2 is my favorite of all of them. And there are so many beautiful little LL moments for those of us who notice these things!

 

TL;DR:

1. Rory's flaws were always in evidence, but back in early years her better qualities were more prominent, and I'm loving her again in spite of myself

2. I am shipping Jess and Rory and trying not to hate myself for it

3. Emily and Richard usually stress me out to the point where I find it hard to appreciate the great writing and acting

4. There are better shows than this one, and certainly less frustrating ones, but none that I've ever been as hopelessly addicted to!

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, coffeecoffeecoffee said:

I actually don't see Jess as that bad in season 2, and even then I see his good points - he's smart, resourceful, thinks for himself, and when it comes down to it, I don't doubt that he does genuinely care about Rory and Luke. Maybe I'm too ready to forgive what a defiant wiseass he is, but I've known my fair share of teens like Jess who lashed out due partly to pain and anger but became happy and productive adults.

We may be pretty much alone at this point (I can't remember if there's still any other Jess supporters here or not, heh) but I'm with you.

As far as Jess & Rory goes, I tend to swing back and forth between shipping them and thinking he's too good for her.  ;)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

We may be pretty much alone at this point (I can't remember if there's still any other Jess supporters here or not, heh) but I'm with you.

As far as Jess & Rory goes, I tend to swing back and forth between shipping them and thinking he's too good for her.  ;)

I go back and forth. I think he did some jerky things but I also think he gets blamed for stuff that wasn’t his fault. 

[Taryn74]

My thing is, when someone pointed out to Jess that he was being a jerk (well, did so without being a jerk about it themselves *cough* Lorelai/Taylor/school principal/etc) he genuinely tried to do better.  That speaks more to me about the type of person he really is than his petty pranks on a too-perfect town and not instinctively knowing how to treat a real girlfriend, you know?

And I still maintain that Rory (and Rory's Mommy) getting so pissed off that he didn't call that one Friday night because he ended up working a double shift and not getting off until midnight is on them, not him.  At least he had a job and a freaking work ethic, for pete's sake.  That's something that's sorely lacking in many people today.

/end rant

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

My thing is, when someone pointed out to Jess that he was being a jerk (well, did so without being a jerk about it themselves *cough* Lorelai/Taylor/school principal/etc) he genuinely tried to do better.  That speaks more to me about the type of person he really is than his petty pranks on a too-perfect town and not instinctively knowing how to treat a real girlfriend, you know?

And I still maintain that Rory (and Rory's Mommy) getting so pissed off that he didn't call that one Friday night because he ended up working a double shift and not getting off until midnight is on them, not him.  At least he had a job and a freaking work ethic, for pete's sake.  That's something that's sorely lacking in many people today.

/end rant

I blame that on both Rory and Jess.  Why didn't Jess call at any point to let her know he picked up another shift? She clearly didn't know that. Why didn't Rory call when he didn't show up. I do like Lorelai asks that but hate that she just gives up after Rory gives her stupid answer. That he said he'd call her. So? Because he said that you can't call him? Then deciding not to tell Jess but be passive aggressive to him and compare him to Dean. 

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I blame that on both Rory and Jess.  Why didn't Jess call at any point to let her know he picked up another shift? She clearly didn't know that. Why didn't Rory call when he didn't show up. I do like Lorelai asks that but hate that she just gives up after Rory gives her stupid answer. That he said he'd call her. So? Because he said that you can't call him? Then deciding not to tell Jess but be passive aggressive to him and compare him to Dean. 

If a guy said he was going to call me and didn't, I wouldn't call him.  I would figure there was a reason he wasn't calling me.  Why would he tell her he was going to call her if he knew he was going to have to work?  Why wouldn't he say "OK, but I have to make quick call first," when asked if he could stay late.  Any boss asking you to stay late will allow you to use the phone to let people know.  They know people have plans after work.

[andromeda331]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

If a guy said he was going to call me and didn't, I wouldn't call him.  I would figure there was a reason he wasn't calling me.  Why would he tell her he was going to call her if he knew he was going to have to work?  Why wouldn't he say "OK, but I have to make quick call first," when asked if he could stay late.  Any boss asking you to stay late will allow you to use the phone to let people know.  They know people have plans after work.

Exactly, especially when he works for Luke. Luke won't give him a minute to call Rory and tell her he can't make it. Why couldn't he take a minute to call and tell her that plans changed? If a guy said he was going to all me I would have called him too. The annoying thing aside from neither calling each other is Rory just assumed she was blown off where most would assume there was a reason and call to find out. Also right before that Rory tells Lorelai when they arrive home that Jess shift varies. So why wouldn't you call? Why wouldn't you think that maybe a large group came up or he was finishing up with customers at his table and that ran late, or was asked to stay late or told he had to stay late. She immediately jumps to he stood her up.  

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Exactly, especially when he works for Luke. Luke won't give him a minute to call Rory and tell her he can't make it. Why couldn't he take a minute to call and tell her that plans changed? If a guy said he was going to all me I would have called him too. The annoying thing aside from neither calling each other is Rory just assumed she was blown off where most would assume there was a reason and call to find out. Also right before that Rory tells Lorelai when they arrive home that Jess shift varies. So why wouldn't you call? Why wouldn't you think that maybe a large group came up or he was finishing up with customers at his table and that ran late, or was asked to stay late or told he had to stay late. She immediately jumps to he stood her up.  

I think you misunderstood me.  I also would have jumped to the conclusion that he stood me up.   Maybe not under these exact circumstances where she knows he was calling "after work", but if a guy said he was going to call me and didn't, I would consider calling him to find out why to reek of desperation, and unless I had a good reason to think that there was a reason other than blowing me off that he wasn't calling, I woul not call him first.  Not unless we had been dating for longer than Rory and Jess had been at that point.  And especially someone like Jess who is kind of rude and moody to begin with.

[andromeda331]

14 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think you misunderstood me.  I also would have jumped to the conclusion that he stood me up.   Maybe not under these exact circumstances where she knows he was calling "after work", but if a guy said he was going to call me and didn't, I would consider calling him to find out why to reek of desperation, and unless I had a good reason to think that there was a reason other than blowing me off that he wasn't calling, I woul not call him first.  Not unless we had been dating for longer than Rory and Jess had been at that point.  And especially someone like Jess who is kind of rude and moody to begin with.

Oh, I'm sorry I did misunderstand what you wrote. 

[chessiegal]

Jess wasn't working at the diner when he didn't call Rory. He was working at Walmart. He still could have called her.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

Jess wasn't working at the diner when he didn't call Rory. He was working at Walmart. He still could have called her.

Yes, he could have.  It was thoughtless of him to not call and let her know he'd be working a double shift when he'd already told her he'd call when he got off work.  But it wasn't the end of the world, and it didn't deserve the level of grief he got from Rory and especially Lorelai (directly and indirectly by her egging Rory on) over it. 

And Jess never even said they were going to go out after he got off work, that was Rory's assumption.  All he said was that he'd call her after he got home.  Geez, if you go by this standard then my husband's been "treating me like crap" for the past 27 years LOL.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

Yes, he could have.  It was thoughtless of him to not call and let her know he'd be working a double shift when he'd already told her he'd call when he got off work.  But it wasn't the end of the world, and it didn't deserve the level of grief he got from Rory and especially Lorelai (directly and indirectly by her egging Rory on) over it. 

And Jess never even said they were going to go out after he got off work, that was Rory's assumption.  All he said was that he'd call her after he got home.  Geez, if you go by this standard then my husband's been "treating me like crap" for the past 27 years LOL.

I agree that he's not the scum of the earth for not having called.  But, Rory did nothing wrong by going to the hockey game and not hanging out waiting to see if he might possibly come by later.  And, she did nothing wrong by not calling him when he said he was going to call her.  Lorelai should have just stayed out of it altogether.  When Jess asked if Rory was home, Nope, sorry, should have been the extent of that conversation.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Emily and Richard usually stress me out to the point where I find it hard to appreciate the great writing and acting

I totally get what you mean because they always reminded me of my parents. Especially Emily. And I would get stressed out watching her interact with Lorelai. Then my mom died and my dad got Alzheimer's. Now I find it rather comforting to see Richard and Emily being like my parents used to be. It helps me not miss them so much.

[Taryn74]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I agree that he's not the scum of the earth for not having called.  But, Rory did nothing wrong by going to the hockey game and not hanging out waiting to see if he might possibly come by later.  And, she did nothing wrong by not calling him when he said he was going to call her.  Lorelai should have just stayed out of it altogether.  When Jess asked if Rory was home, Nope, sorry, should have been the extent of that conversation.

You're mixing up two events.  Rory and Lorelai rushed home from FND thinking they both had dates the night that Jess worked a double shift.  (And really, they didn't have any plans.  Jess just said he would call her when he got off work.  Was he really supposed to call - knowing she was in Hartford - and leave a message on their machine that he was working a double shift and would call her the next day instead?  Kind of silly when you think about it.  Yeah it's something Dean would have done, but it's also the kind of over-the-top clinginess that ended up on her nerves about Dean.  Just saying.)  Jess was out Saturday evening trying to get concert tickets to surprise her (as a way to apologize for not calling the night before when she thought they had plans and he didn't, one could argue) when she got mad thinking he was blowing her off again and went to the hockey game.  (Not an unreasonable response, btw, but at this point it's all based on misunderstandings on everyone's part and Lorelai's just stoking the fire.)  Jess went by the house to pick Rory up and Lorelai jumped all over him, so he went and waited outside the hockey game and was there waiting when she got out.

The guy tried to understand why she was upset and make it right, that's all I'm saying.

[shron17]

On 1/17/2019 at 6:02 PM, copperboom said:

I think Lorelai leaving with Rory makes sense if she had depression caused by postpartum hormones.

I agree with this to an extent, but I also think Lorelai could have come to feel that she had to get away no matter what because she was a strong, independent teenage mom who was tired of dealing with a controlling mother.  And we don't know there was no plan.  She could have spent the last year or so putting away any money she could and researching towns and places where she might be able to get a job.  I don't think we even know for sure that Stars Hollow was the first town she tried--there could have been a list of places and a plan.  Also, don't forget to factor in that most 17-year-old's think they're invincible and nothing bad could possibly happen.

From Presenting Lorelai Gilmore:

Quote

CHRISTOPHER: Only took me ten years and several failed business ventures to figure out what I wanted.
LORELAI: Which is?
CHRISTOPHER: Not my parents' life.
LORELAI: Ah.
CHRISTOPHER: Something you figured out at sixteen.
LORELAI: Actually, six months, but I just couldn't vocalize it yet.
CHRISTOPHER: Yeah, you knew what you wanted, you went out and got it. I was always a little jealous of you.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

I agree that he's not the scum of the earth for not having called.  But, Rory did nothing wrong by going to the hockey game and not hanging out waiting to see if he might possibly come by later.  And, she did nothing wrong by not calling him when he said he was going to call her.  Lorelai should have just stayed out of it altogether.  When Jess asked if Rory was home, Nope, sorry, should have been the extent of that conversation.

Totally agree with all of this. There was also a lot of immaturity on all sides- which made sense in the case of Jess and Rory, less so in Lorelai’s decision to get involved.

[marineg]

@coffeecoffeecoffee I agree. I actually think that Rory and Jess could have been great together. The issues with Jess are a bit circumstantial in my opinion.

- When he first got to town, he had issues settling in, and acted like a stupid teenager, granted. He made mistakes, but nothing that warranted a town meeting with every SH citizens trying to figure out how to deal with him. Jess was moving from a big city like NY to a small town, a small community. He needed to adjust and realize his actions had more impact in SH than in NY.

- He got heavily blamed for the car accident when it wasn't actually his fault. It's quite easy to have a car accident, especially when you are a young driver. He offered two choices, going home or keep driving, and Rory made the decision to keep driving, at night, in a small town that probably doesn't have great street lighting. The blame here has to be shared. It was a very mild accident, caused by an animal on the road, and with only a hairline fracture for Rory, and no other cuts or bruises. It got build up by Lorelai and every citizen in SH. If anyone other than Jess had been being the wheel, they wouldn't have been blamed. When Rory made a succession of bad decisions that lead to her accident with the deer, everyone blamed the deer. Rory got never-seen-before-at-Chilton extra credit opportunities, and Jess got driven out of town.

- When Jess was accused, again by Lorelai, of stealing Rory's bracelet, it was never set straight that it wasn't the case. On Jess and Rory's picnic "date", Rory dropped her bracelet. Jess found it, and yes, he kept it for longer than appropriate. But let's not forget that he is not an adult. How many teenagers do you know have had a crush, and held on to an object belonging to their crush, like a pen borrowed in class, a boy's sweatshirt, a girl's hair-tie, or something they dropped? Sure, it's stupid, but "normal" teenage behaviour. Can I remind everyone that Rory kept the box of cornstarch that she actually stole from Doose's Market? She realized she had stolen it once she had left the store, but she did not go back in to return it. She kept it. On her dresser. In Jess' eyes, this was just a trinket, a bracelet that Rory wore. He loved her, and wanted a "souvenir", a keepsake. He didn't actually know that that was the bracelet Dean gave her for her 16th birthday. He had not yet moved to town. When he learned that it was so important to her, he went to out it back in her room and got caught. And once again, Lorelai lectured him and meddled in her daughter's love affairs. Something she hated her own mother for.

- Like @coffeecoffeecoffee said, when Jess did not call, Rory could have. They hadn't actually made any plans to go out. Rory said they did while at FND, but then, once at home, revealed that he just said he would call her. She could have left a message, or paged him, or anything. I get that she was young and expected "the guy" to call. And again, Lorelai was no help in the matter. For a couple of women who claim to be independent and strong, they don't act like it. And again, can I remind everyone of the episode when Sookie asked out Jackson? Sookie didn't want to call Jackson and set something up because she wanted to be "the girl" and Lorelai pushed her, saying that if she wanted the date, she had to act. Why didn't she do the same thing for Rory?

- At the very special FND planned for Jess, that was completely and utterly Rory's fault. Sure, Jess' pride forbade him from telling the truth about the black eye, and that was stupid. But Rory acted in an awful, disrespectful and unloving manner towards Jess. Jess didn't do anything untoward at that dinner. Rory humiliated him in front of her grandmother. When Dean was attacked by her grandfather at a similar dinner, she fought back and defended him. But here, she dragged him in the mud. Not to mention that she was so sure of herself, that she couldn't believe Jess when he said he didn't get into a fight with Dean. That is until she went and talked with her ex-boyfriend about her boyfriend's black eye, and believed the ex over said boyfriend. Again, that is not normal behaviour.

- Towards the end of the relationship, it all started to go to hell, and that is when Jess really behaved like a douche. I'll concede that. But, that is because of ASP's need for a spin-off. She started ruining their relationship, along with Jess and Luke's, so Jess could move out of town without any ties left in SH. She wanted him in California so she could take advantage of the success of the show, and make a second one. Not blaming her for that, it's business, but she could have dealt with a situation in a better manner. She ruined Rory and Jess' relationship in a way that didn't make sense. One day he was all in love and counting the miles that would separate them a year from then, which meant he intended to stay in SH while Rory was at Yale, and the next day he was trying to force her to have sex at a party.

 

I have many more examples like this, but I will spare you all. What I'm trying to say here is that it must not have been easy for Jess to move into a whole new place where you don't know anyone, including Luke who he must not have seen often, and have the whole town and the mother of his crush gang up on him like that.

[Katy M]

41 minutes ago, marineg said:

When Jess was accused, again by Lorelai, of stealing Rory's bracelet, it was never set straight that it wasn't the case. On Jess and Rory's picnic "date", Rory dropped her bracelet. Jess found it, and yes, he kept it for longer than appropriate.

I agree with you in the main, but technically, that is stealing. He knew who it belonged to and kept it instead of returning it.   It's also technically valueless, so it's not the crime of the century.

 

44 minutes ago, marineg said:

- At the very special FND planned for Jess, that was completely and utterly Rory's fault. Sure, Jess' pride forbade him from telling the truth about the black eye, and that was stupid. But Rory acted in an awful, disrespectful and unloving manner towards Jess. Jess didn't do anything untoward at that dinner. Rory humiliated him in front of her grandmother. When Dean was attacked by her grandfather at a similar dinner, she fought back and defended him. But here, she dragged him in the mud. Not to mention that she was so sure of herself, that she couldn't believe Jess when he said he didn't get into a fight with Dean. That is until she went and talked with her ex-boyfriend about her boyfriend's black eye, and believed the ex over said boyfriend. Again, that is not normal behaviour.

On this one, I 100% agree that Rory shouldn't have spoken to him about his black eye until they left.  However, I don't blame her for not believing he didn't get into a fight with Dean.  he refused to tell her what really happened (and ended up lying when he finally did, which she did believe), and he and Dean had a history of going at it.

Now, I have to back up to that lie. Jess said that he got the black eye throwing a football around with the guys.  Who were these guys he was supposed to be throwing the football with?  He didn't have any friends his own age except for Rory.  Good job, star investigative reporter.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

 

Now, I have to back up to that lie. Jess said that he got the black eye throwing a football around with the guys.  Who were these guys he was supposed to be throwing the football with?  He didn't have any friends his own age except for Rory.  Good job, star investigative reporter.

No kidding, especially when Jess was constantly acting like he was better than anyone in Stars Hollow. He didn't have ANY friends! He was busy insulting people, trying to get Rory to be his girlfriend. Showing he had to be "such a rebel" screwing over his uncle he was CONSTANTLY going to bat for him. I actually remember when the episode first aired, I was watching it with my mother and she said: "Jess has friends? He hates everyone!" Yet, Rory believed him.

[ghoulina]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I just watched the episode where Lorelai babysits Gigi for Chris - and I HATE how Lorelai acts when he picks her up. Chris is probably my most hated character over the course of the entire show. And Lorelai was 100% right about Gigi needing boundaries and rules. But it was the WAY she approached it. She was calling her a feral hyena and alluding to her being possessed. What parent would ever want to hear that kind of language about their child? Lorelai lost her shit when Lindsey's mother confronted her about Rory's behavior in the street - but it's okay for her to say such cruel and horrible things about a little girl who's mother ran out on her? 

I realize Chris was being very stubborn about the situation - but A. She was throwing out her "quippy" insults before Chris even had a chance to get defensive. And B. She didn't have to dig in so hard. If Chris wasn't being receptive to her parenting advice, she could have just said - "I think you're being too easy on her and her behavior is not acceptable. But if you don't agree and don't want to hear my opinions, I totally respect that. I just won't be able to babysit for Gigi again." 

It just annoys me how she always thinks she's right, to the point of insisting her point be heard. She's no perfect parent herself. 

[marineg]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

Now, I have to back up to that lie. Jess said that he got the black eye throwing a football around with the guys.  Who were these guys he was supposed to be throwing the football with?  He didn't have any friends his own age except for Rory.  Good job, star investigative reporter.

Agree. I thought the exact damn thing when he said it. And I agree he was being stupid, but it's not exactly being a bad boyfriend either. He wasn't hiding a major thing, he just didn't want to lose face in front of his girlfriend.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Lorelai lost her shit when Lindsey's mother confronted her about Rory's behavior in the street - but it's okay for her to say such cruel and horrible things about a little girl who's mother ran out on her? 

Exactly.  

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

She's no perfect parent herself. 

*gasp*  She wasn't?

(Obviously joking, as that's one of my biggest gripes with Lorelai V. Gilmore)

[ALittleShelfish]

Not sure if this falls into "Unpopular Opinion" or "Just Kind of Annoying"...

Anytime Lane/Zach/Gil/Brian talk about music, they always pull out some random band combo that a certain song reminds them of, like "Led Zeppelin meets The Sparks meets Lou Reed meets The Jam meets The Stray Cats meets Style Council meets..." 

I dunno, it just makes me crazy.  Who thinks like that?  As in "this 3-minute song reminds me of seven ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ARTISTS and I can think of them all immediately off the top of my head".   Maybe I'm just old and forgetful and not as quick and witty as I might have been in my 20s.  Either way.  It just bugs. 

[ghoulina]

No, it is a little much. A two-band combo would be fine. But nobody thinks up that many right when they hear something. Not to mention, is there a sound that really IS  a combination of all of those? Really???? 

[Guest]

On 1/23/2019 at 12:06 PM, ghoulina said:

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I just watched the episode where Lorelai babysits Gigi for Chris - and I HATE how Lorelai acts when he picks her up. Chris is probably my most hated character over the course of the entire show. And Lorelai was 100% right about Gigi needing boundaries and rules. But it was the WAY she approached it. She was calling her a feral hyena and alluding to her being possessed. What parent would ever want to hear that kind of language about their child? Lorelai lost her shit when Lindsey's mother confronted her about Rory's behavior in the street - but it's okay for her to say such cruel and horrible things about a little girl who's mother ran out on her? 

I realize Chris was being very stubborn about the situation - but A. She was throwing out her "quippy" insults before Chris even had a chance to get defensive. And B. She didn't have to dig in so hard. If Chris wasn't being receptive to her parenting advice, she could have just said - "I think you're being too easy on her and her behavior is not acceptable. But if you don't agree and don't want to hear my opinions, I totally respect that. I just won't be able to babysit for Gigi again." 

It just annoys me how she always thinks she's right, to the point of insisting her point be heard. She's no perfect parent herself. 

Exactly.  She didn't even start the conversation calmly and then escalate to get her point across. It was straight to "Your child is hellspawn and you're doing a horrible job with her!"  If I were Chris, I would probably have assumed she was still jealous over the events surrounding Gigi's conception and hated the child from the start- which she didn't. But because of how she approached it.

[andromeda331]

I think about this show way too much. Today I was thinking of Rory's reaction to Dean tell her he loved her. She mentions her mom told her dad she loved him and clearly its effected her. Is this the first time we Rory say anything of the sort regarding her parents, their life and stuff? Dean was kind of dismissive (I agree he reacted badly, I understand being sixteen and hurt at your girlfriend/boyfriend not saying I love you back but still) but he also didn't really seem to listen to what she was say. Did she ever talk to him about stuff like that? Did they not talk about Christopher or her feelings about how she came into the world, her parents or anything like that at all? By this point Christopher has already come and gone and Dean saw Rory's reaction when they woke up at Miss Patty's. She was freaking out and she knew exactly why. Didn't they ever talk about that? Did he ever wonder if Rory has some hang ups about all that stuff? Did he ever talk about that with Rory or his mom about that? I assume not because when Lorelai comes to yell at him several episodes later he still didn't think he did anything wrong. Which Dean your half right there's nothing wrong with telling your girlfriend you love her. But she doesn't have to tell you that back plus if he had been going over that moment in his head over and over as you'd think he would most teens I'm not sure why he'd think he did nothing wrong. His reaction to hers was wrong, plus he clearly hadn't thought at all about Rory said. He didn't think about to her remarks about her parents and think back to her reaction to waking up at the studio? When Lorelai goes to talk to Rory, was nice as what she said (I always liked the part of her talking about not thinking about what she was suppose to be teaching Rory which makes sense Lorelai hadn't figured it out for herself when Rory came long and except for an occasion hookups never did figure it out because she was so focused on raising her daughter) was it always felt off to me.  Worrying about raising a girl who couldn't say I love you. That didn't really seem like the problem. But Dean never tells her what Rory says. He only says that he told Rory he loved her and she just sat there. Rory did say stuff but he never told Lorelai. He still doesn't see its more important what Rory said then what she didn't say. Rory also never tells Lorelai what she said either. So Lorelai is going off incomplete information. It too bad it would be interesting to what Lorelai's reaction would be. Most likely hurt and maybe worry she's tried hard to make sure Rory isn't hurt by all that. It also would have been interesting to explore that with Rory. They never really did. Even thought she's heard a lot of things, knows its the source of Lorelai and her parents' problems, the pressure on her to be perfect, to go to Harvard, and remarks she'd made every once in awhile about Christopher. To go further in how that effects her, how she perceives her family, love, and relationships. How does that color in anyway her relationships with boys? She knew immediately how bad it would be when she woke up after Miss Patty's and when Dean tells her he loves her, she brings up how big it is and her parents her mother told her father she loved him. 

[Taryn74]

30 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I think about this show way too much.

Ha! That legit made me LOL. How long has it been off the air now? And yet, here we all are. Heh.

 

31 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Is this the first time we Rory say anything of the sort regarding her parents, their life and stuff?

Yeah, I think it is. I mean, we get tiny little hints every once in a while that overall it's an uncomfortable topic for her and there's some longing there for what might have been (I'm thinking specifically of the way she looked at Young! Chris & Lorelai's pictures in L&W&S, and also the way she responded to Paris, Madeline, and Louise's questions in Concert Interruptus) but I get the impression that it was probably a topic she avoided with Lorelai because of the years of hurt that had piled up.

 

38 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Which Dean you're half right there's nothing wrong with telling your girlfriend you love her. But she doesn't have to tell you that back plus if he had been going over that moment in his head over and over as you'd think he would most teens I'm not sure why he'd think he did nothing wrong. His reaction to hers was wrong, plus he clearly hadn't thought at all about Rory said. He didn't think about to her remarks about her parents and think back to her reaction to waking up at the studio?

Totally agree. There should have been some self-reflection on his part for sure. (One of my many issues with Dean, even supposedly perfect-early-Dean.)

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

otally agree. There should have been some self-reflection on his part for sure. (One of my many issues with Dean, even supposedly perfect-early-Dean.)

I don't necessarily think he thought he did nothing wrong.  I would be willing to bet if he had to do it all over again he would have done it differently.  However, I think once done, his feelings were hurt, and he had his pride.  When it comes down to it she didn't return his I love you (which is perfectly fine), but he's hardly likely to think that his blowing up at her about it would change her mind.  So, then he was probably like "if I apologize is she just going to think I'm trying to get that I love you, will she just say it's over anyway because she hates my guts,, did she never really like me all that much anyway" etc, etc, so he did the easy thing--nothing.  Plus, the next day after the breakup, Luke was ready to beat him up.  Yeah, Dean was kind of a jerk about the whole thing, but there are very few teen romances whose breakups need to be followed by an adult getting aggressive about it.  Rory (for whatever bizarre reason) is the town angel.  That would have been another barrier to him trying to make it right.

[andromeda331]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 3:54 PM, Taryn74 said:

Ha! That legit made me LOL. How long has it been off the air now? And yet, here we all are. Heh.

 

Yeah, I think it is. I mean, we get tiny little hints every once in a while that overall it's an uncomfortable topic for her and there's some longing there for what might have been (I'm thinking specifically of the way she looked at Young! Chris & Lorelai's pictures in L&W&S, and also the way she responded to Paris, Madeline, and Louise's questions in Concert Interruptus) but I get the impression that it was probably a topic she avoided with Lorelai because of the years of hurt that had piled up.

Yes, we did over the series and I can see why Rory would avoid the subject with her mother. She wouldn't want to hurt her and Lorelai would be hurt she's tried so hard to keep Rory from feeling hurt or bad by any of it. But it would have been interesting had they brought it up and see how much Rory was really effected by it. We never really see her talk to anyone not even Lane. 

Quote

Totally agree. There should have been some self-reflection on his part for sure. (One of my many issues with Dean, even supposedly perfect-early-Dean.)

There should have been. Rory didn't just sit there and say nothing when he told her he loved her. She said stuff. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:25 PM, Katy M said:

I don't necessarily think he thought he did nothing wrong.  I would be willing to bet if he had to do it all over again he would have done it differently.  However, I think once done, his feelings were hurt, and he had his pride.  When it comes down to it she didn't return his I love you (which is perfectly fine), but he's hardly likely to think that his blowing up at her about it would change her mind.  So, then he was probably like "if I apologize is she just going to think I'm trying to get that I love you, will she just say it's over anyway because she hates my guts,, did she never really like me all that much anyway" etc, etc, so he did the easy thing--nothing.  Plus, the next day after the breakup, Luke was ready to beat him up.  Yeah, Dean was kind of a jerk about the whole thing, but there are very few teen romances whose breakups need to be followed by an adult getting aggressive about it.  Rory (for whatever bizarre reason) is the town angel.  That would have been another barrier to him trying to make it right.

How do you think he would have done it definitely?

I do get what your saying mostly. He's a teen and took her not telling him that she didn't love him. Then thinking she hates his guts or self pity not uncommon for a teen in. But I still think he should have at least thought over what she said during the breakup he really doesn't seem to have done that or seen it as important. Which when if he would have remembered the last time they didn't talk much was after the dance. He didn't really seem to understand then why that it was such a big deal. Does he ever think over either situation? It doesn't seem like it.

I never liked Luke trying to beat up Dean. How ever Luke felt about Rory or thought of Dean neither is an excuse to beat up a teenager or when Dean says in PS I Love...that he's tired of the entire town treating him like a criminal. No one should get that treatment. 

[Katy M]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

How do you think he would have done it definitely?

I think with the benefit of hindsight, he would have just let his "I love you" stand, or he wouldn't have said it in the first place, allowing his embarrassment not to happen.

[andromeda331]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 5:05 AM, Katy M said:

I think with the benefit of hindsight, he would have just let his "I love you" stand, or he wouldn't have said it in the first place, allowing his embarrassment not to happen.

I think he would have gone with the latter and not said in the first place. But learning to say I love you and let it stand is really something that doesn't come up too often at least on TV. I know its probably too much for any teen to realize.  The person you say I love you too doesn't have to say I love you back and yes sometimes that does mean the end of the relationships. Its not uncommon for couples to fall in love with each other at different times. They could not be ready. Or maybe one is in love with his girlfriend and she really likes him and wants to keep dating him. But doesn't love him. Unless she's misleading him. There's nothing wrong with it. It was a nice call back when Rory tells Logan she loves him but tells him he doesn't have to say anything back and knows how it feels to feel blindsided. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by andromeda331

[clack]

What a teenager means by "love" in a romantic context is pretty basic. Racing heart, daydreaming about the loved one, wanting to be with them, stuff like that -- not that you're making a lifetime commitment.

If Rory is truly not feeling any of that, Dean should have called off the relationship immediately. In fact, Rory should have called it off herself : it's misleading to date someone if all you feel for them is friendship.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, clack said:

What a teenager means by "love" in a romantic context is pretty basic. Racing heart, daydreaming about the loved one, wanting to be with them, stuff like that -- not that you're making a lifetime commitment.

If Rory is truly not feeling any of that, Dean should have called off the relationship immediately. In fact, Rory should have called it off herself : it's misleading to date someone if all you feel for them is friendship.

I don't think anyone else gets to define what Rory means by "love."  I actually respect people who take the word a little bit more seriously.  Not that I think Dean did anything wrong by saying I love you.  But, Rory didn't do anything wrong by wanting to be sure of her feelings first.

[ghoulina]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think anyone else gets to define what Rory means by "love."  I actually respect people who take the word a little bit more seriously.  Not that I think Dean did anything wrong by saying I love you.  But, Rory didn't do anything wrong by wanting to be sure of her feelings first.

Agreed. And I think there's a lot of grey area between committed, adult love and "Oh, I just think about you a lot and my heart races." 

Rory and Dean did end up dating for a very long time. It was pretty serious. I appreciated her not wanting to rush things.