General True Crime Shows

[applecrisp]

Suz at Large, I think you were very succinct in your story.  It just shows that people will forgive cops who were wrong and maybe more should try apologizing.  Haven't we learned anything from Watergate - the cover up is what gets you.  We now have video of a cop beating a women on the freeway.  This will not turn out well.  

 

I have a real problem with the FBI, some stems from so many cop shows where the FBI came in and took over.  Also the movie Midnight Run where the feds were always a day late and a dollar short.  Mostly for me it was the Atlanta bombings where Buddy Jewel was wrongfully targeted and the Feds refused to apologize.  Then they proceed to alienate the locals in the hills of the Smokey Mountains.  Too arrogant.

 

To me it seems the police have a hard job and most people would forgive them if they would acknowledge they were wrong and try to make it right.  I'm not so sure about the prosecutors though.

[roamyn]

I remember hearing abt that case Suz. And I was also pleasantly surprised by the turn-around of the widower

As someone who's actually been arrested, spent 7 hrs in jail, and then had her conviction expunged, I have to say I was treated w/respect by all members of law enforcement. The judge was a great guy, and even joked w/me.

That's not to say there's not bad ones out there, but my *admittedly* small experience was as good as it can be, i guess.

Edited July 10, 2014 by roamyn

[jenkait]

the story of Tom & Jackie Hawks (married couple killed by a former child actor so he could steal their boat) completely fascinates me

 

That was one story I watched (can't remember on which show first), and it absolutely haunted me.  I was so shaken after watching it was one of the few times I've actually thought, "I don't know if I watch this stuff anymore".  It was described how the tied-up and blindfolded couple would've been able to hear the chains of the anchor being pulled across the boat deck and how they'd know that could only mean one thing, and I just felt ill, it was absolutely horrifying.  It was also so beyond awful how they gained the couple's confidence by having the pregnant wife and baby there for the first meeting.

 

There have been a couple of cases of murders/drownings on boats, and they've all freaked me out more than anything else, because the victims had no hope of escape or rescue.  Also, I think drowning fears me the most of all deaths.  I'd rather be strangled, shot, set on fire, anything.

 

Whew.  Okay, well as to another topic: lie detector tests bother the hell out of me.  It seems that the police rely so heavily on them; even if a person they think is guilty passes the test, they just dismiss it, they go with their original hypothesis anyway!  They seem to be used as manipulation way too often.  I know it looks really bad to refuse one, but I think I would anyway.  I remember in one of my criminology classes in university, a professor told us to refuse to take it if you are innocent but take it if you're guilty, because there's a much higher chance of a false positive (and presumably also because they're inadmissible in court anyway if you are guilty).

Edited July 10, 2014 by jenkait

[walnutqueen]

I stand firmly with Joe Kenda on lie detector tests - they're useless.

 

jenkait - Never take a lie detector test.  Unless it is for your criminal defense attorney James Cromwell (just watched Murder in the First).  As a matter of fact, I'd never speak to the police, just on general principle (I live alone, rarely go out, and the cat is a lousy alibi).  ;-)

[TaraS1]

 

That was one story I watched (can't remember on which show first), and it absolutely haunted me.  I was so shaken after watching it was one of the few times I've actually thought, "I don't know if I watch this stuff anymore".  It was described how the tied-up and blindfolded couple would've been able to hear the chains of the anchor being pulled across the boat deck and how they'd know that could only mean one thing, and I just felt ill, it was absolutely horrifying.  It was also so beyond awful how they gained the couple's confidence by having the pregnant wife and baby there for the first meeting.

 

ITA, jenkait.  It was the terrible details of that crime that stayed with me.  And how he was trying to comfort her.  The way the prosecutor in the case and the one son talked about them, it just broke my heart.  A somewhat similar tragedy happened to a member of my family in 2009, so anything having to do with someone bound and thrown into water while they are still alive just devastates me.  I suppose that's why I identify so closely with that particular case.

Edited July 10, 2014 by TaraS1

[TaraS1]

Thanks very much, @suzatlarge.  And ITA, the contrast between the two couples was incredible.  People who had worked hard their entire lives, destroyed by these greedy, amoral pieces of trash.  I think it was the 48 Hours episode where they interviewed Skyler and asked him if he was a good liar, and he seemed so proud of himself as he shyly, humbly admitted he was.  Just disgusting.

[jenkait]

TaraS1, so sorry that you lost a family member in such a horrible way, I don't have words.

[xyzzy]

I loved it when Kenda dissed polygraph exams. Didn't he say something like, the only useful thing about polygraph exams can be a suspect's reaction to being offered one? 

 

The ridiculous overreliance on polygraph results drives me absolutely batty. Polygraphs measure "arousal," which can be caused by approximately 13434 things, including medication, anxiety and anxiety disorders, hyperglycemia, stimulants (including nicotine and caffeine), substance withdrawal, various mental disorders, etc. etc. A polygraph examiner cannot reliably distinguish between arousal caused by lying or by any of these other things.

[walnutqueen]

(can I say "tits?")

 

 

You can say anything - as long as you don't make any of those moaning sigh noises that often accompany the salacious re-enactments of some ID fare, AKraven!  :-)

[MrsClaus]

I was watching Happily Never After last night when they were talking to the relatives I kept thinking something didn't feel right and then realized when they showed photos of the actually people that they were a lot older than the actors they had portraying them.  Not everyone is some hot 30 yr. old but then again this is ID I was watching.

[walnutqueen]

tits tits tits tits....  :)

 

There once was a man from the Ritz

Who planted an acre of tits

They came up in the fall, nipples and all

And he savagely chewed them to bits

[walnutqueen]

Yes, I am a deliberately thoughtful limericker.  ;-)

[00redsvt]

I came in here to see if anyone had seen the "Southern Fried" episode about the murder of Dr. Akers in Kentucky. I haven't gotten to watch it yet since I don't have ID and I'm trying to see if there is anyway to legally view it. Anyways, the whole thing happened in my teeny tiny hometown and my mother in law and her sister went to school with both of Dr. Akers daughters. I just wanted to see some reaction to it before I fully searched it out.

[00redsvt]

Oh man. I just watched it with my MiL and I don't know what to say. She's a wreck and I'm a wreck and this is crazy. It's wild how you watch these shows and think - oh that's awful. But then to see it and know it happened like 5 minutes from your house and to really know the people it happened to...really different ballgame.

[roamyn]

One of my best friends from Jr. High murdered her father w/her brother & boyfriend.

They left the body in the living room for over a week while they ran up his credit cards having parties, with his body still lying there, only covered by an afghan.

I'm surprised ID never jumped all over that story...though it was in '78 or '79.

Michelle only got juvie until she was 21, but the guys got life.

[Edie Wharton]

Michelle only got juvie until she was 21, but the guys got life.

 

@roamyn, any idea what Michelle's life has been like since her release?

[00redsvt]

One of my best friends from Jr. High murdered her father w/her brother & boyfriend.

They left the body in the living room for over a week while they ran up his credit cards having parties, with his body still lying there, only covered by an afghan.

I'm surprised ID never jumped all over that story...though it was in '78 or '79.

Michelle only got juvie until she was 21, but the guys got life.

Uh..wow.

But you make a good point about cases that I often wonder WHY they never recreate them for tv shows like this. I mean, there's only so many Manson Family reenactments that one wants to see.

Uh..wow.

But you make a good point about cases that I often wonder WHY they never recreate them for tv shows like this. I mean, there's only so many Manson Family reenactments that one wants to see.

We don't have much crime here, heck we don't even have a stoplight but after the Acker murder, there wasn't another murder until the 2000's when a man murdered a father and his 4 year old son. After which he rented a motel room at the super 8 across from the scene so he could watch the officers bring out the bodies. There have been a couple of books written about it and the family of the deceased made it on one of those Court Room Fight shows when they attacked the murderer during his hearing. It was insane. I keep waiting on that story to be featured somewhere.

[auntjess]

I wonder if you don't have to at least some of the investigating officers and friends and/or family of the victim, willing to talk on camera.

[roamyn]

Michelle changed her name when she got out of juvie back in the mid-80s.

My other best friend TW actually reached out to her afterward (the three of us hung out together all the time, we were like the Musketeers). But i think she was embarrassed, she didn't keep in touch even inside.

However, by high school I had moved to a well-off suburb, & TW stayed in Cleveland, so our contact became less & less anyway.

I reached out to TW aft college & she updated me on Michelle.

I still remember that whole week aft track & school we kept looking for Michelle as she lived only 2 (I think) streets from the school. No one knew why she was absent. That's how the authorities found out. The truancy dept called the police, and the neighbors called as well, because of the parties.

I must've gone to a bad Jr high, because years later one if the quietest kids in school murdered his pregnant g/friend on her family's porch in front of the sister. Luckily they saved the baby. Eventually they found Milan a suicide in thec woods wearing a Jason mask. That was in the late 80s I believe.

Edited July 17, 2014 by roamyn

[roamyn]

I've seen that murder detailed many times, as it's yhe only one ever committed by an Amishman.

I've been so disgusted by the murder porn thst ID puts out, that I haven't checked any out (ok I did try Southern Fried Homicide once) I'll have to try that one out.

(Actually the school wasn't bad at all. *I* turned out relatively okay. Though my children might disagree heh heh).

[applecrisp]

OOredsvt, saw the story and it was very sad.  He was a good guy.  I can see how it would shake a community.  Roamyn,  there are three cases in my community where I grew up that involved a murder.  I worked with a women and her estranged husband went on a "spree" and killed (I think) a neighbor and their daughter.  I did not know her well and only worked there for a short time but it happened then.  I was in my twenties and it was so hard to comprehend.  I just remember I didn't know how to act around her and I hope I did act the right way.  Hard to explain.

 

In talking about this, I think it makes it more real.  The people who express that we have to show some reverence to these tragic events are correct.  I know I will be more conscious of that in the future.

[00redsvt]

This is so odd that we're all sitting around trading crime stories. It is extremely interesting to me though. Does that make me weird? lol

[roamyn]

This is so odd that we're all sitting around trading crime stories. It is extremely interesting to me though. Does that make me weird? lol

No weirder than the rest of us! Ha ha

[RubyWoo72]

The show in which the murder victim narrates from beyond the grave is waaaay too corny for me. And case we, the viewers, are having difficulty figuring out how the deceased may have spoken, don't worry! There's a staple stock of Unsuspecting Southern Belle, Gentle Granny/ Granddad, East Coast Guy Whose Friends Want Cops to Fuggetabouddit, and Unlucky-in-Love Sassy Black Lady voices on hand.

All of which are helping us follow along because we couldn't figure it out otherwise!

Edited July 18, 2014 by RubyWoo72

[auntjess]

The southern accent in the promo for whatever that show is, is one of the worst, ranking up there with Carrol O'Connor and Blanche in Golden Girls.

[slensam]

The southern accent in the promo for whatever that show is, is one of the worst, ranking up there with Carrol O'Connor and Blanche in Golden Girls.

"Southern Fried Homicide". It is a caricature of an accent.

[RubyWoo72]

"Southern Fried Homicide". It is a caricature of an accent.

Yep. That one and Swamp Murders (or something) with the creepy corpse lady under the water.

[RubyWoo72]

Since we're on that, can we talk about the completely weird cadence of the Deadly Women narrator? Which is similar to that of the bewigged brunette who used to be an FBI profiler (with the wonky makeup)? They both drive me bananas.

[walnutqueen]

Deadly Women is totally unwatchable for me - I just cannot stand the narration or the "music", much less the cheesy reenactments.

 

ID seems to be bringing a LOT of new shows to the table - probably in the hopes that if you throw enough shit against the wall, something's bound to stick.  Maybe they (and we) will get lucky and hit upon another Kenda some day, but I doubt it.

[RubyWoo72]

Deadly Women is totally unwatchable for me - I just cannot stand the narration or the "music", much less the cheesy reenactments.

ID seems to be bringing a LOT of new shows to the table - probably in the hopes that if you throw enough shit against the wall, something's bound to stick. Maybe they (and we) will get lucky and hit upon another Kenda some day, but I doubt it.

I hear ya. And it's weird when the Australian actors' native accents come through in the reenactments of American cases. I was initially excited when the ID station launched but now, there's a whole lot of shit, as you've said, and it's quickly sliding down the wall. I mean, really--Wives with Knives? Happily Never After? Scorned (and its stupid theme song)? Perhaps they could work some of that campiness into the network's name: What the Bleep Is This Channel. I do, however, enjoy Kenda's deadpan delivery. More of that stuff, please, and less deadly love triangles.

[MrsClaus]

This is driving me crazy.  I saw a commercial the other night for a new show coming on.  It involves a private investigator but looked nothing like the Wolfe one.  Can anyone tell me what the name of the show is?

 

Oh, and dh has a standing order with his best friend that should anything happen to him he is to call the sheriff because I obviously know to much about getting rid of a spouse.  LOL!

[auntjess]

Tell him if he sees rolls of duct tape, heavy grade trash bags, and a new chain saw in the garage, to get the hell out of town.

[RubyWoo72]

Tell him if he sees rolls of duct tape, heavy grade trash bags, and a new chain saw in the garage, to get the hell out of town.

Ooh! Ooh! And lime! If it ain't the kind for margaritas, hubby has a problem.

[MrsClaus]

Ok, Cry Wolfe has got to be the cheesiest show.  Admittedly, I haven't watch all the shows on ID, but geez last night it was I think my electrician is screwing me and I want to find out the truth.  The Truth was that he was screwing the wife and stealing from them both.

[cbetsky]

 

This is driving me crazy.  I saw a commercial the other night for a new show coming on.  It involves a private investigator but looked nothing like the Wolfe one.  Can anyone tell me what the name of the show is?

 

Pretty sure that one is "No Where To Hide".  I can't remember the name of the PI.

 

I watched one episode of "Handsome Devils" and didn't think it sucked. The episode I watched, the handsome devil did not succeed in his murder attempt, and the wife told most of the story. For the most part, I could see how she could be deceived by this guy (at least I wasn't screaming "How could you be so stupid!!!" through most of the show) and she had a huge role in capturing him in the end.

 

 

[RubyWoo72]

I'm watching Behind Mansion Walls right now (I hate this show but I'm using it to time myself on folding laundry), and again, the use of British/ Australian production for American cases is carelessly obvious.

The story is about Christopher Porco, a NJ man who axed his parents. In the reenactments, he's depicted in his yellow jeep with the steering wheel on the right side. In actual photos, the real Porco is shown in his jeep with the steering wheel on the left side. Get it together, ID!

[roamyn]

I used to like BMW for the fun Christopher Mason.

But yhe stories got to be too similar. And the production just as bad as Dangerous Women.

[Rina99]

Apparently Deadly Women is returning next Friday with new episodes, in case anyone cares.  Sadly, I do.  I can't get enough of New Zealanders/Australians trying to mimic southern accents.

[Rina99]

Who's ready for Heartbreakers, which finally arrives on August 13th?  I have to admit, I feel a lot of glee seeing Rob Estes tussling with Jack Wagner in those promos.  I know it's everything bad about ID, but honestly, I'm going to watch.  

 

As long as I'm confessing how I'm contributing to the downfall of ID, I have to admit that I'm weirdly fascinated by Cry Wolfe, and haven't missed an episode.  It's absolutely terrible, but I get tickled by the (fake) scenarios where he's chasing down a client out of concern, and it always seems to me that even the fake running probably had him reaching for an oxygen tank once the cameras stopped rolling.  Also, his tone never changes even when he's yelling.  

Edited July 30, 2014 by Rina99

[MrsClaus]

Ok, I just have to ask.  If you are a psychic, why are you hiring Wolfe to tail your husband?  Shouldn't you already know what's going on??

[Taylorh2]

I just discovered Dangerous Persuasions, and one word comes to mind: DAMN!!

 

I just watched the case "Are You Ready To Die?"   Damn!  My mind is totally blown.

[walnutqueen]

I just discovered Dangerous Persuasions, and one word comes to mind: DAMN!!

 

I just watched the case "Are You Ready To Die?"   Damn!  My mind is totally blown.

 

I have steered clear of this one - am I missing something good, or is it the awful kind of mind blowing?  :-)

[Taylorh2]

You need to watch it.  I cannot believe that anyone would allow themselves to be brainwashed like that.

[roamyn]

That sounds horrible Andy!

I feel for you. My sister is a beech as well, but only because she's a drug & alcohol addict. She used to blow marijuana smoke into kitten's faces & then put them on the floor & watch them stumble around. And she got pissed when we didn't invite her to our step dad's birthday (sarcasm), even though she's been estranged from him for 15 years.

No loss there.

[applecrisp]

Deadly Women Had its 100th episode and they spent a full hour on Lizzy Borden.  I enjoyed it.  I had seen the Lifetime movie a while ago.  Candace, the lady doctor and Diane Fanning thought  she was guilty.  The Phleps guy thought there was not enough evidence against her.  I learned some new things about the case in this show.

[walnutqueen]

Family shit is just the worst, isn't it?  I've got a big old pile of it myself that I ignore, too.  :-)

[applecrisp]

Agree Walnut and Andyourlittledog2, family can be so greedy and callous.  My first cousin died and was probably a hoarder.  Just not happy with my younger cousin who didn't bother to visit her.  The brother also told his one son not to visit, he had two little girls whom she loved.  Made me sad.  

 

Family shit can get really bad.  Sometimes we just stay away.

[roamyn]

I didn't see it, but if u can find it, Victoria Lincoln 's book on the subject is fascinating. She knew Lizzie when she (the author) was a liitle girl. She comes at the case from an insiders POV.

L izzie's grand jury testimony is what did her in. Without it, Mr. Phelps is correct, the crime scene was so compromised that it was hard to convict her. And her lawyer did a great job keeping it out.

I used to have a copy of the book, which was published in the 1960s. It's called 'A Private Disgrace'.

[applecrisp]

Thanks for the suggestion Roamyn.  I do believe she did it.  In the Lifetime movie she was naked when she killed her father.   That explained her being able to clean up fast.  For a time there was a show on the History Channel where detectives solved very old cases.  Maybe not solved but gave their opinions on how the crime was done.  I only saw two cases.   Lizzy Borden's was one.

[roamyn]

She wouldn't be naked. It's 1892, not 1982. There's no way a woman of gentle breeding would ever traipse around naked, even in her own home.

She burned a "brown stained" dress. That's a fact. One of Emma's friends commented to her on it, and testified against her.

They also found blood droplets on one of her petticoats. She explained it away by saying it was from her menstruation, but the droplets were on the outside of the petticoat.

Edited August 6, 2014 by roamyn