General True Crime Shows

[funky-rat]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Okay.  I recently saw one of the MOST bizarre murder stories that I just CANNOT figure out.  IT just seems too unlikely.  If you saw it, please chime in.  This nice, young college student murders his wealthy parents and brother (Taiwanese) in their VA home, AFTER they try to prevent him from relationship with an American woman that he is very in love with. They want him to agree to arranged marriage with girl from their country.  Four months later, he takes GF to their house and shows her the bodies and says he killed them.  She secretly reports to crime stoppers, but, no one checks it out.  Fast forward 3 years!  He tells his male friend who assists him in removing the bodies! They have laid on the floor for 3 years and no one has noticed they have vanished!  Son and GF part ways and he tells his new girlfriend enough to peak her interest! A total of four years later,  new GF reports to police, who investigate and determine what happened. Son admits that he killed them.  So, what happened to their mail? Their investment and bank accounts? Taxes?  Utility bills?    Maybe, I missed it if they explained.  I think that son told some people that there was a suicide and death, but, no one questioned it.  Why didn't neighbors notice the place was deserted for 4 years?   

I didn't see this show, but I've seen on other shows that when someone from another country is killed, people are told that they are "visiting back home", often for an extended period of time.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I didn't see this show, but I've seen on other shows that when someone from another country is killed, people are told that they are "visiting back home", often for an extended period of time.

Yeah, I can see how non-money related people might buy it, but, what about their bills?  If you don't pay property taxes, there would been some action.  Where was their mail piling up?  They were very wealthy, so, their accountants would have been frantically trying to contact them for various things. Who maintained the yard?  It just seemed like a lot of things would have had to be taken care of or someone would have inquired where they were.  IDK, just odd to me.  I'd like to see that one again. 

[funky-rat]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I can see how non-money related people might buy it, but, what about their bills?  If you don't pay property taxes, there would been some action.  Where was their mail piling up?  They were very wealthy, so, their accountants would have been frantically trying to contact them for various things. Who maintained the yard?  It just seemed like a lot of things would have had to be taken care of or someone would have inquired where they were.  IDK, just odd to me.  I'd like to see that one again. 

Some bills and taxes could be auto-pay.  There was a case of a woman who was found dead in her car in her garage.  She'd been there for 5 years.  All bills were paid by auto pay (including her mortgage, and her taxes were in escrow with the mortgage).  Neighbors thought she might have taken an extended leave or similar, so they mowed her lawn.  She wasn't found until the money in her bank account finally ran out, and they came to foreclose the house.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2974499/How-Michigan-woman-nine-siblings-end-mummified-backseat-car-remain-five-years.html

The son could have forged documents from his parents, or said they gave him POA, or similar.  Some people are really crafty.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Okay.  I recently saw one of the MOST bizarre murder stories that I just CANNOT figure out.  IT just seems too unlikely.  If you saw it, please chime in.  This nice, young college student murders his wealthy parents and brother (Taiwanese) in their VA home, AFTER they try to prevent him from relationship with an American woman that he is very in love with. They want him to agree to arranged marriage with girl from their country.  Four months later, he takes GF to their house and shows her the bodies and says he killed them.  She secretly reports to crime stoppers, but, no one checks it out.  Fast forward 3 years!  He tells his male friend who assists him in removing the bodies! They have laid on the floor for 3 years and no one has noticed they have vanished!  Son and GF part ways and he tells his new girlfriend enough to peak her interest! A total of four years later,  new GF reports to police, who investigate and determine what happened. Son admits that he killed them.  So, what happened to their mail? Their investment and bank accounts? Taxes?  Utility bills?    Maybe, I missed it if they explained.  I think that son told some people that there was a suicide and death, but, no one questioned it.  Why didn't neighbors notice the place was deserted for 4 years?   

That story was freaking wild. I'm just stuck on the fact that he left the bodies in the house for so many years. And yet he still let people go there to help tend to the yard and such. Didn't he worry that any of them might go inside the house for some reason (maybe he gave them explicit instructions not to do so, but still, doesn't mean they'd necessarily follow those instructions)? 

I can just imagine how relieved both his girlfriends are that they got away when they did. Though I do question the first one being all, "Yeah, sure, I'll totally go with my boyfriend, just the two of us, to see the bodies of his family members, whom he says he's killed." I love how he kept telling his first girlfriend over and over to keep this a secret, yet he's the one who ultimately spilled the beans to that friend of his (who apparently didn't seem that fazed at being asked to help dispose of his friend's family's bodies-how lucky for him that the statute of limitations allowed him to escape any punishment for his role). It seems odd to me that the guy seemed like he didn't know how to get rid of the bodies for so many years. I have to wonder if his leaving them in the house that long was more a means of "punishing" them somehow, given his resentments and anger towards them, than because he didn't know how to get rid of them. 

I also wonder if his parents could sense there was something off about their son early on, and that was part of the reason, if not the real reason, why they were so desperate to break up his first relationship and take him back home. There was a brief, vague mention of him claiming that his parents had put him in some kind of institution or something at one point? Perhaps they were trying to get him some help. 

Just, yeah. What a disturbing story.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if the parents really had him semi abducted and taken to his home country OR if he lied about that to justify him murdering them.  AND, was that letter really from the brother or sent to GF to justify him killing them?  I wasn't sure if that video of him in some kind of facility was real or a reenactment of what the GF was told by this guy.  She went to his apt and said half his belongings were gone....so, if abducted by his parents, would they have allowed him to pack half his belongings?  That said to me that he left on his own accord.  But, I'm not sure what to believe . That was one strange story.  It seems like the GFs and the friend were sort of scared of him.  lol  But, he had all that time to kill them and he didn't.  I think he really was just fed up with his family's interference.  They had no way to know just how angry he got with them.  I wonder what happened to the property that he would have inherited.  

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I wasn't sure if the parents really had him semi abducted and taken to his home country OR if he lied about that to justify him murdering them.  AND, was that letter really from the brother or sent to GF to justify him killing them?  I wasn't sure if that video of him in some kind of facility was real or a reenactment of what the GF was told by this guy.  She went to his apt and said half his belongings were gone....so, if abducted by his parents, would they have allowed him to pack half his belongings?  That said to me that he left on his own accord.  But, I'm not sure what to believe . 

All good questions. I can easily see him making up all kinds of things to try and further justify his crimes, so you could be on to something there. 

Quote

That was one strange story.  It seems like the GFs and the friend were sort of scared of him.  lol  But, he had all that time to kill them and he didn't. 

Definitely. I was so sure that we'd find out that he, or his family, given all the talk about how strict they were, would do something awful to his girlfriend at some point, because the stories on this show often tend to end with one or both of the couple dying as a result of their forbidden love. But nope. This one took a direction I definitely wasn't expecting. 

[Persnickety1]

Thinking this family murder/internet scam is going to end up on Web of Lies or Deadly Relations.  I knew his mother as a peripheral work acquaintance.  

Florida man kills family after spending $200K on Bulgarian "cam girl"  

[Annber03]

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The family drama hit such an intense pitch that Cody confided to his girlfriend he was worried his brother "would kill everybody," 

Amazing how common this sort of warning comment seems to be in these kinds of stories.

Awful story. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Here is more info about the young man who murdered his parents and brother.  So, he actually eventually assumed his brother's identity and began selling the homes the family owned.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/12/10/fairfax-man-admits-killing-parents-brother/5008dc2d-f891-41bf-bcff-c3f1aaeb9148/?utm_term=.0df1cc5304b5

[Annber03]

20 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Here is more info about the young man who murdered his parents and brother.  So, he actually eventually assumed his brother's identity and began selling the homes the family owned.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2002/12/10/fairfax-man-admits-killing-parents-brother/5008dc2d-f891-41bf-bcff-c3f1aaeb9148/?utm_term=.0df1cc5304b5

Okay, that part they didn't mention in the episode! At least, I don't remember them talking about that. Wow. 

Quote

He kept his family's remains there until 1999, when a pipe burst and the house flooded.

I can't help being amused that that's what ultimately tripped him up. Also, I know he tried to keep the place as sealed up as possible and the bodies were left in just one room in this big house, but still...depending on where the workers were doing their jobs in relation to that part of the house, wouldn't somebody have started to notice a really bad smell at some point or something? 

[SunnyBeBe]

The pipe bursting tells me that he didn't keep the power on. It must have frozen and then burst.  That or the power went out due to storm.  After the bodies were disposed of, he could have likely escaped a long prison sentence if he had kept his mouth shut.  Regardless of what the others said, they couldn't prove that he did it.  I read that his confession was not legally admissible, but, he still chose to plead guilty with advice of counsel.  Hmm....he should have gotten a legal opinion early on.  

[LuvMyShows]

Just watched the Forbidden Dying For Love episode "Onward Christian Soldier".  Were we supposed to feel sorry for her before she died?  It sure seems like that, but I didn't (although obviously I feel sorry that she was murdered).  She lied and connived for years and years, and brought it all on herself (although it was a dick move for that music minister to show her letter around).

[Tdoc72]

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That Hacking case was horrible.  I remember back when it happened. I fell asleep on the show last night though.  I missed a little.  Did they ever say what about this guy made him capable of murdering his wife that way? I know about him trying to hide his lies of going to medical school, but, still.....lying and murdering is a big jump.  He seemed normal growing up, early marriage, etc.  It's just hard to process that he would see murdering his pregnant wife the best option over telling her the truth.  I mean, he could have faked being sick and just said he was too sick to go to medical school.  

She knew the truth.  IIRC she had tried to contact the medical school & found out he wasn’t going. Police found a letter she had written to him about it. So I assume killing her was to prevent his family & friends from finding out. She was sleeping in their bed so it seems like she wasn’t leaving him.  So sad.

Also big ups to his family for revealing he had confessed. A lot of families don’t do that, as seen in various true crime stories. It sounds like they were a decent family & he was the bad seed. 

[Tabbygirl521]

22 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That Hacking case was horrible.  I remember back when it happened. I fell asleep on the show last night though.  I missed a little.  Did they ever say what about this guy made him capable of murdering his wife that way? I know about him trying to hide his lies of going to medical school, but, still.....lying and murdering is a big jump.  He seemed normal growing up, early marriage, etc.  It's just hard to process that he would see murdering his pregnant wife the best option over telling her the truth.  I mean, he could have faked being sick and just said he was too sick to go to medical school.  

Okay.  I recently saw one of the MOST bizarre murder stories that I just CANNOT figure out.  IT just seems too unlikely.  If you saw it, please chime in.  This nice, young college student murders his wealthy parents and brother (Taiwanese) in their VA home, AFTER they try to prevent him from relationship with an American woman that he is very in love with. They want him to agree to arranged marriage with girl from their country.  Four months later, he takes GF to their house and shows her the bodies and says he killed them.  She secretly reports to crime stoppers, but, no one checks it out.  Fast forward 3 years!  He tells his male friend who assists him in removing the bodies! They have laid on the floor for 3 years and no one has noticed they have vanished!  Son and GF part ways and he tells his new girlfriend enough to peak her interest! A total of four years later,  new GF reports to police, who investigate and determine what happened. Son admits that he killed them.  So, what happened to their mail? Their investment and bank accounts? Taxes?  Utility bills?    Maybe, I missed it if they explained.  I think that son told some people that there was a suicide and death, but, no one questioned it.  Why didn't neighbors notice the place was deserted for 4 years?   

With Mark Hacking - I think if you’re twisted enough to construct an elaborate lie of a life for years, you might be capable of anything. I think only a sicko would have gone down that path in the first place. Sorry for all the technical psychiatric terms. 😂

i haven’t seen the second case you describe but I would like to! Was it on ID? It sounds nuts!

[SunnyBeBe]

I can't recall if the young student who murdered his parents and brother was on ID or Oxygen.  I'll post if I can find out.  It takes a lot to get my attention, but, this case was definitely out of the norm.  lol 

Oh, I found more info.  Very interesting.  This explains a lot.  Still can't find the name of the show though...................

http://www.landsakes.com/2010/03/love-and-death-then-came-forgery/

Okay.  I think this might be it.  It was from 2016, but, is still apparently, being shown.  It could even be on Oxygen by now.

https://patch.com/virginia/mclean/1995-murders-great-falls-be-featured-sunday-night-investigation-discovery-channel

Edited June 25, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[partofme]

1 hour ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

i haven’t seen the second case you describe but I would like to! Was it on ID? It sounds nuts!

57 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I can't recall if the young student who murdered his parents and brother was on ID or Oxygen.  I'll post if I can find out.  It takes a lot to get my attention, but, this case was definitely out of the norm.  lol 

This was on ID.  My cable package doesn't come with ID(damn Spectrum) but I was able to watch it on my mom's Xfinity(which if she ever upgrades for a lower rate she will apparently lose ID)

[LuvMyShows]

The most recent airing of an episode of the student-killed-family story was season 4 of Forbidden: Dying for Love, "Family Matters", on ID.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

The most recent airing of an episode of the student-killed-family story was season 4 of Forbidden: Dying for Love, "Family Matters", on ID.

Great. Thank you. 

[LuvMyShows]

Wow.  Just wow.  I watched Oxygen's Buried in the Backyard, "Gone Girls".  Never seen the story before, about 2 girls who disappeared from Folly Beach in SC.  This took place in 1973, so things were a little different, but I still cannot get over that the police department required waiting TWO WEEKS before investigating!!!  They said the girls had run away, or hooked up with some boys, or some other bullshit that was so not like the girls.  So sometime later, the police chief's daughter also disappeared.  Even though it wasn't shown, you know for darn sure that they didn't wait for 2 weeks to investigate her disappearance, nor did they float theories about how she ran away or met up with some boy. 

Eventually they caught the guy who killed all 3 girls, plus he abducted and attempted to kill 4 more people.  Yet the only crime he was charged with, was the 2 girls' murder, and he comes up for parole EVERY 2 YEARS!  Why on earth wouldn't they charge him with more, so he could get more time, and the families wouldn't have to go through the parole-hearing hell over and over and over again?

Also, they showed the actual area in the abandoned beach house where the 2 girls were taken, and it is terrifyingly haunting to see.

[Annber03]

44 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Wow.  Just wow.  I watched Oxygen's Buried in the Backyard, "Gone Girls".  Never seen the story before, about 2 girls who disappeared from Folly Beach in SC.  This took place in 1973, so things were a little different, but I still cannot get over that the police department required waiting TWO WEEKS before investigating!!!  They said the girls had run away, or hooked up with some boys, or some other bullshit that was so not like the girls.  So sometime later, the police chief's daughter also disappeared.  Even though it wasn't shown, you know for darn sure that they didn't wait for 2 weeks to investigate her disappearance, nor did they float theories about how she ran away or met up with some boy. 

I remember the whole "Oh, they must be runaways" thing being a common theme in the latest season of "Disappeared" that aired last year, too. So many children under the age of 18 that haven't been found, dead or alive, for years, because the police didn't take the reports of them going missing more seriously. It was horrifying. Even if they do believe they're runaways, I don't understand what the hell the harm is in starting up an investigation anyway, just in case. Especially once they see how distressed the parents are about their kids not being home. If the parents look that genuinely worried, then if I were an officer, I'd start thinking, "Hm, maybe there is more to this going on here." 

I know that police can be underfunded and have minimal staff sometimes, too, which I'm sure is also a factor in why some of these investigations are slow to get off the ground. But still. I don't care what the reason for a child disappearing from home is, you should automatically be out there trying to use whatever resources you do have to see what the hell's going on. At least that way you might have a better chance of being able to either bring them back home if they'd been kidnapped or gotten lost or something, or, if they did leave home because they weren't safe there for whatever reason, you'll have the opportunity then to help them find a safer place to go instead. By waiting so long to start looking, you're just putting them at even bigger risk. 

Quote

Eventually they caught the guy who killed all 3 girls, plus he abducted and attempted to kill 4 more people.  Yet the only crime he was charged with, was the 2 girls' murder, and he comes up for parole EVERY 2 YEARS!  Why on earth wouldn't they charge him with more, so he could get more time, and the families wouldn't have to go through the parole-hearing hell over and over and over again?

I truly do wonder sometimes what the hell it has to take to put people like that in jail for life with no chance of getting out. I'll see stories about people who've molested children coming up for parole or being released and I'm like, "...why?" There are some types of heinous crimes that, if you do it once, you're very likely to do it again. 

[funky-rat]

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I truly do wonder sometimes what the hell it has to take to put people like that in jail for life with no chance of getting out. I'll see stories about people who've molested children coming up for parole or being released and I'm like, "...why?" There are some types of heinous crimes that, if you do it once, you're very likely to do it again. 

I watched a thing that was on HLN the other night - "Lies, Crime, and Video", or something similar.  It was a woman who was a single mother of 3 little girls and in dire financial straits, who was duped by a charming guy who dangled the promise of free clothes for her kids and some other stuff, and took them to Wal-Mart, where he distracted the mom, and kidnapped, assaulted, and murdered her oldest daughter, who was 8 years old.

I felt bad for the mom because everyone blamed her for this.  It took them 6 hours to launch an Amber Alert, and in some ways, I believe it was because the mom put them in the situation they were in.  Once they launched the alert, people found the van very fast, and the guy was thankfully arrested - had they launched it sooner, they might have found her before she was killed.  Yes, it's easy to blame the mom for putting herself and her kids in a bad situation, and she even admits she had some red flags, but this guy was a professional pervert, and made her eventually feel at ease.  And I know some people that have been in dire financial straits so badly that someone could charm them in to a bad situation as well.

Turned out this guy had a rap sheet spanning FORTY years.  All for disgusting stuff with kids.  Time and again he'd go to jail, but get out after only serving 2-5 years.  And he'd re-offend quickly.  He was registered as a sex offender, but it came out from other victims of his that they were not notified he was released again (something they're supposed to do).  He hadn't killed anyone else (not that they know of, anyway), but it showed some taped conversations between the killer and his mother in a visiting room, and he kept saying over and over that he just can't go back to jail because the other prisoners will kill him in general population once it gets out that he's a pervert with kids.  He then says that if he must go back, he wants to be on death row so he's away from general population.  He also blames the little girl, saying he left but she followed him and literally attached herself to him, and climbed in to his van, and refused to leave when he said she had to.  Of course, that's all lies.  Video shows him leading her out of the store, with the promise of going to McDonald's (there was one in the Wal-Mart), and parking lot footage shows him taking her to the van (I would assume he told her he had to go get money, or some other lie, to get her out there).  There's also disgusting recorded audio of him in jail talking about how 12 year olds turn him on.

Just how much does this guy have to do to ensure he never got out of jail again?  Why was he released after serving just 1/4 to 1/2 of his sentences?  Now he's gotten his wish - he's on death row - but it took murdering one little girl and harming many others to get him off the street for good.  Just 3 weeks before he killed this little girl, he had been released from jail.

[partofme]

12 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Wow.  Just wow.  I watched Oxygen's Buried in the Backyard, "Gone Girls".  Never seen the story before, about 2 girls who disappeared from Folly Beach in SC.  This took place in 1973, so things were a little different, but I still cannot get over that the police department required waiting TWO WEEKS before investigating!!! 

I saw this too and was shocked.  And my mom and I had just been talking about how we're outraged when the police make the family wait 48 hours.  I couldn't believe they'd make anyone wait 2 weeks.  They may have been found alive if the police would do their jobs.

Also I don't understand the concept that if someone is a runaway minor that the police don't have a duty to search for and return them to their parents.

Edited June 26, 2019 by partofme

[LuvMyShows]

ID has an old series called Epic Mysteries.  There are two episodes that are mind-boggling, which I just watched.  One of them (Too Pretty To Live) I had seen the plot on another franchise.  It's about Janelle Potter and a 'CIA agent' named Chris.  The other (A Checklist for Murder) was about Robert Peernock and his attempt(s) to kill his wife and daughter.  True, unadulterated psychopaths.  If you aren't familiar with these cases, give them a watch.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I watched a thing that was on HLN the other night - "Lies, Crime, and Video", or something similar.  It was a woman who was a single mother of 3 little girls and in dire financial straits, who was duped by a charming guy who dangled the promise of free clothes for her kids and some other stuff, and took them to Wal-Mart, where he distracted the mom, and kidnapped, assaulted, and murdered her oldest daughter, who was 8 years old.

I felt bad for the mom because everyone blamed her for this.  It took them 6 hours to launch an Amber Alert, and in some ways, I believe it was because the mom put them in the situation they were in.  Once they launched the alert, people found the van very fast, and the guy was thankfully arrested - had they launched it sooner, they might have found her before she was killed.  Yes, it's easy to blame the mom for putting herself and her kids in a bad situation, and she even admits she had some red flags, but this guy was a professional pervert, and made her eventually feel at ease.  And I know some people that have been in dire financial straits so badly that someone could charm them in to a bad situation as well.

Turned out this guy had a rap sheet spanning FORTY years.  All for disgusting stuff with kids.  Time and again he'd go to jail, but get out after only serving 2-5 years.  And he'd re-offend quickly.  He was registered as a sex offender, but it came out from other victims of his that they were not notified he was released again (something they're supposed to do).  He hadn't killed anyone else (not that they know of, anyway), but it showed some taped conversations between the killer and his mother in a visiting room, and he kept saying over and over that he just can't go back to jail because the other prisoners will kill him in general population once it gets out that he's a pervert with kids.  He then says that if he must go back, he wants to be on death row so he's away from general population.  He also blames the little girl, saying he left but she followed him and literally attached herself to him, and climbed in to his van, and refused to leave when he said she had to.  Of course, that's all lies.  Video shows him leading her out of the store, with the promise of going to McDonald's (there was one in the Wal-Mart), and parking lot footage shows him taking her to the van (I would assume he told her he had to go get money, or some other lie, to get her out there).  There's also disgusting recorded audio of him in jail talking about how 12 year olds turn him on.

Just how much does this guy have to do to ensure he never got out of jail again?  Why was he released after serving just 1/4 to 1/2 of his sentences?  Now he's gotten his wish - he's on death row - but it took murdering one little girl and harming many others to get him off the street for good.  Just 3 weeks before he killed this little girl, he had been released from jail.

Dear god. That's insane. I'm furious just reading that. Everyone whose bright idea it was to let this creep go time and again should be held accountable, too, for putting people at risk by letting him wander the streets again.

I don't get blaming the mom here, either. Like you said, some people are really good at hiding their true selves, and a mother should feel comfortable taking her kids to a store without having to worry that one of them will be kidnapped and murdered. 

Just horrifying. That poor little girl. Her poor family. I've said before that I don't support the death penalty, but if this guy wants to go there and have that as his punishment...fine by me. 

[funky-rat]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Dear god. That's insane. I'm furious just reading that. Everyone whose bright idea it was to let this creep go time and again should be held accountable, too, for putting people at risk by letting him wander the streets again.

I don't get blaming the mom here, either. Like you said, some people are really good at hiding their true selves, and a mother should feel comfortable taking her kids to a store without having to worry that one of them will be kidnapped and murdered. 

Just horrifying. That poor little girl. Her poor family. I've said before that I don't support the death penalty, but if this guy wants to go there and have that as his punishment...fine by me. 

Yeah, I was floored when they talked about his record, and how he'd get out early time and again, only to re-offend, get out early, etc.

The mom was in really bad financial straits.  They didn't go much in to her background, and it's not necessary to the story.  I didn't get any vibes that she was a drug addict or anything - just poverty stricken and maybe not the brightest bulb in the box - naieve.  She didn't have a car, and walked with her 3 kids to Dollar General because her oldest (the one who was killed) was due to leave the next morning on a plane to go spend the summer with her dad in California.  As such, the mom wanted her to have a nice new outfit or two to wear, and thought there might be some clothing there she could afford.

The pervert was at DG, and was haning out, trolling (they show security footage).  He sees the mom repeatedly asking a worker for prices on clothing, and looking dejected when she figures out she can't afford it.  While this is going on, the perv goes to another cashier and asks if they carry porn magazines.  The cashier obviously tells him no.  As the mom puts the clothes back, perv asks another employee if he offered to buy the clothes for the mom, would it make him look like a creeper (in not so many words).  He goes up to the mom and offers to buy her the clothes, but she hesitates.  He then says that he needs to call his wife (he doesn't have one), and she had a $100 Wal-Mart gift card that they wanted to use to be a blessing to someone else, and he'd like to help her buy clothes for her kids.  She again hesitates, but he fake calls his fake wife, and she said he started to make her feel at ease.  He says fake wife is going to meet them all at Wal-Mart.  She doesn't have a car so he offers to take them there.  Red flag again, but she said he charmed her, and she ride with him to Wal-Mart.

She said that his van was kind of creepy, but he was kind, and he took them to Wal-Mart as he said he would, and her concerns started to go away.  He again faked called his fake wife and said she would be there momentarily, and she should start picking out clothes for the kids.  All 3 kids are with her, and perv is nearby, watching and listening.  It's getting late (around 8pm) and the kids say they are hungry.  Perv comes over and says "I'll go order us food from McDonald's (which is in Wal-Mart). What do you want?".  The mom thinks,  says "Cheeseburgers", and sends the oldest daughter off to tell him.  Oldest daughter heads to McDonald's.  It wasn't long before mom realized the daughter hadn't come back.

They walked up to McDonald's and no one is there.  She asks a worker there where they went, and he says they never came in.  Mom immediately calls 911.  Tells the operator her daughter was taken from Wal-Mart, and operator says "What do you mean?".  She then explains that a man offered to buy them clothes and took them to Wal-Mart, and both are missing, and she believes the man kidnapped her.  And I think that was a mistake, because it seems that people immediately started juding her, almost insinuating that she was stupid and got what she deserved.  As much as I don't like Nancy Grace, she rightly says that it's easy for people to judge, but when you're desperate, and someone waves $100 in front of your face to buy clothing for your kids, you can lose your judgement.  Plus many of us mistakenly believe that if we're in a public place with lots of cameras, poeple are watching all the time, and will stop someone trying to kidnap someone else.  In reality, kidnapping is rarely someone dragging a person kicking and screaming.  Security footage looks like grandfather taking a grandkid to the car.  Nothing sinister appearing to it at all.

It took 6 hours for the police to launch an Amber Alert.  Mom had very detailed descriptions of perv and his van.  As soon as the Amber Alert is issued, 2 things happen.  1)  Cops on a traffic stop see the van drive by and give chase, and catch him.  2)  People who live near a wooded area call in because they saw the van in the area for several hours.  Had the Amber Alert been issued immediately, things might have been different.  When cops pull him out of the van, he's soaking wet from the waist down.  They get on the radio and say to search water.  There is water where the people who called in saw his van.  That's where they find her.

That's when it comes out about his 40 year rap sheet, how he was a sex offender but prior victims weren't notified he had been let out, and how he is free to re-offend constantly.  I think he knew that he would go back to jail if he let the girl live, and as he later said, he couldn't have that, so he killed her hoping he'd get away with it, or if he was caught, he'd go to death row.  And sadly, lots of "If she's that stupid, she deserves what she gets" talk from people.  I hate victim blaming.  It takes FIVE YEARS to get him to trial, and when he's there, he's reliving stuff - especially when past victims testify - and he spends his time there smiling, laughing, grinning - makes me sick.  The jury was out for only 15 minutes.

Did the mom make the best decision?  No.  But charmers prey on those that they can easily snow.  They know their marks by sight, and they watch, and wait.  She shouldn't have trusted him, but that 8 year old didn't deserve to die either.  And that perv will likely die in jail before ever seeing an executioner.

[auntjess]

On 6/25/2019 at 10:38 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Eventually they caught the guy who killed all 3 girls, plus he abducted and attempted to kill 4 more people.  Yet the only crime he was charged with, was the 2 girls' murder, and he comes up for parole EVERY 2 YEARS!  Why on earth wouldn't they charge him with more, so he could get more time, and the families wouldn't have to go through the parole-hearing hell over and over and over again?

I can't remember if they could still charge him in other murders, or not.  If so, he's what the death penalty is for.
I don't understand why the county or state couldn't have looked for the girls earlier, hell call the FBI in case they were kidnapped.
Were the families not the "right sort" to merit police action?  Couldn't figure it out.

[funky-rat]

On 6/25/2019 at 10:38 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Eventually they caught the guy who killed all 3 girls, plus he abducted and attempted to kill 4 more people.  Yet the only crime he was charged with, was the 2 girls' murder, and he comes up for parole EVERY 2 YEARS!  Why on earth wouldn't they charge him with more, so he could get more time, and the families wouldn't have to go through the parole-hearing hell over and over and over again?

I don't know about this case, but there's a girl from a case I saw on ID where she was stalked by an ex-boyfriend (she was late teens/early 20's - can't remember excactly what age).  He thought he killed her, but she managed to survive.  They caught him  trying to jump off a bridge (but whether he'd do ir or not is up for debate - he likely just wanted attention).

He's in jail, but not for life without parole.  He still writes this girl letters from prison - some  threatening.  She says he will 100% track her down if he ever gets out.  He demands regular parole hearings just to get her back on his turf.  She's trying to get a new law enacted that helps people like her from having to re-live this torture over and over just because the guy wants to see her again.  She would still go to parole hearings, but not make them "on demand" for prisoners (I know it's not like that in every state).  Apparently he's not receiving punishment for writing and threatening her.  That alone should make it that he never sees the light of day again.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I don't know about this case, but there's a girl from a case I saw on ID where she was stalked by an ex-boyfriend (she was late teens/early 20's - can't remember excactly what age).  He thought he killed her, but she managed to survive.  They caught him  trying to jump off a bridge (but whether he'd do ir or not is up for debate - he likely just wanted attention).

He's in jail, but not for life without parole.  He still writes this girl letters from prison - some  threatening.  She says he will 100% track her down if he ever gets out.  He demands regular parole hearings just to get her back on his turf.  She's trying to get a new law enacted that helps people like her from having to re-live this torture over and over just because the guy wants to see her again.  She would still go to parole hearings, but not make them "on demand" for prisoners (I know it's not like that in every state).  Apparently he's not receiving punishment for writing and threatening her.  That alone should make it that he never sees the light of day again.

That makes me so angry. Someone like him clearly not be allowed parole, parole hearings, or allowed to send out anything. Yet he's able to "demand" parole hearings, what the hell for? With his long rap sheet and currently in jail for the kidnapping, rape and murder of a little girl. There is absolutely no reason why shouldn't have been locked long before that crime and shouldn't be allowed to get out or contact a victim! 

[funky-rat]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That makes me so angry. Someone like him clearly not be allowed parole, parole hearings, or allowed to send out anything. Yet he's able to "demand" parole hearings, what the hell for? With his long rap sheet and currently in jail for the kidnapping, rape and murder of a little girl. There is absolutely no reason why shouldn't have been locked long before that crime and shouldn't be allowed to get out or contact a victim! 

That was a different guy - I can't recall the name of the ID show it was on.  This was the boyfriend of a girl in her late teens/early 20's.  He demands parole hearings either yearly or every 2 years, and still sends the girl mail - sometimes threatening.  He thought he killed the girl, but she managed to survive.  I'll have to see if I can figure out what show it was.  It was a good show, but terrifying.

The guy who killed the little girl is on death row...where he should be.

ETA: Found it.  I thought this was from Philly, and I was right.  And it makes me sick that he can demand parole hearings yearly.  I live in PA, and I hope she got this passed:

https://truecrimedaily.com/2018/01/10/can-i-strangle-you-survivor-shares-story-of-rape-brutal-attempted-murder-frustration-with-legal-system/

Edited June 28, 2019 by funky-rat

[badhaggis]

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

That was a different guy - I can't recall the name of the ID show it was on.  This was the boyfriend of a girl in her late teens/early 20's.  He demands parole hearings either yearly or every 2 years, and still sends the girl mail - sometimes threatening.  He thought he killed the girl, but she managed to survive.  I'll have to see if I can figure out what show it was.  It was a good show, but terrifying.

The guy who killed the little girl is on death row...where he should be.

ETA: Found it.  I thought this was from Philly, and I was right.  And it makes me sick that he can demand parole hearings yearly.  I live in PA, and I hope she got this passed:

https://truecrimedaily.com/2018/01/10/can-i-strangle-you-survivor-shares-story-of-rape-brutal-attempted-murder-frustration-with-legal-system/

I saw the story  "Your Worst Nightmare" the episode was Never Let Go. I'm not sure if that is what you saw.

[funky-rat]

9 minutes ago, badhaggis said:

I saw the story  "Your Worst Nightmare" the episode was Never Let Go. I'm not sure if that is what you saw.

Yep - that's the one.  Same names.  Scary stuff.

[badhaggis]

12 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

Yep - that's the one.  Same names.  Scary stuff.

Karen Widdoss is so strong and amazing. To come through something so awful and trying to change laws I really admire her strength.

[funky-rat]

4 minutes ago, badhaggis said:

Karen Widdoss is so strong and amazing. To come through something so awful and trying to change laws I really admire her strength.

Yes, she is.  By all medical science, she should have never made it to her grandparent's house....on foot.

[Brattinella]

13 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

He's in jail, but not for life without parole.  He still writes this girl letters from prison - some  threatening.  She says he will 100% track her down if he ever gets out.  He demands regular parole hearings just to get her back on his turf.  She's trying to get a new law enacted that helps people like her from having to re-live this torture over and over just because the guy wants to see her again.  She would still go to parole hearings, but not make them "on demand" for prisoners (I know it's not like that in every state).  Apparently he's not receiving punishment for writing and threatening her.  That alone should make it that he never sees the light of day again.

So, if she doesn't go to his parole hearings, he automatically gets out?  Is she the only thing keeping him in prison?  If so, this is so wrong!

[funky-rat]

54 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

So, if she doesn't go to his parole hearings, he automatically gets out?  Is she the only thing keeping him in prison?  If so, this is so wrong!

From what I understand, she has to go to hearings to have her victim impact statement heard, and get the best chances of keeping him locked up.  I'm sure she lets the parole board know that he is still writing her, sending her drawings of skulls, threatening her, etc.  If she doesn't show up to give the impact statement, then it's not heard, and who knows what could happen from there.  He demands the parole hearing every year so he can re-live everything with her being there.  As far as I'm concerned, he should not be allowed to write her.  I remember people at the prison reading my Uncle's mail before it left, because it would sometimes be marked that they read it, and he was just there for petty stuff, not attempted murder (and it's a crime in and of itself that he was never tried for that).  So I have no idea how he can stil do this without someone stopping him.  Continuing to harass her from behind bars should land him there for life with no possibility of parole because it shows he has no hope of getting better, and no desire to.  If he serves the full sentence, he'll still be out in 15 years.  I would be terrified if I were her.

[Brattinella]

I would think the parole board, in all its wisdom, could accept the original mailings from this creep in lieu of her repeated testimony.  Couldn't they take that into evidence?  Seriously, she is the VICTIM here.  She shouldn't have to go out of her way like this!  She could either type up her victim statement, or even record and send it in!  This needs to be fixed tout de suite!

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, funky-rat said:

From what I understand, she has to go to hearings to have her victim impact statement heard, and get the best chances of keeping him locked up.  I'm sure she lets the parole board know that he is still writing her, sending her drawings of skulls, threatening her, etc.  If she doesn't show up to give the impact statement, then it's not heard, and who knows what could happen from there.  He demands the parole hearing every year so he can re-live everything with her being there.  As far as I'm concerned, he should not be allowed to write her.  I remember people at the prison reading my Uncle's mail before it left, because it would sometimes be marked that they read it, and he was just there for petty stuff, not attempted murder (and it's a crime in and of itself that he was never tried for that).  So I have no idea how he can stil do this without someone stopping him.  Continuing to harass her from behind bars should land him there for life with no possibility of parole because it shows he has no hope of getting better, and no desire to.  If he serves the full sentence, he'll still be out in 15 years.  I would be terrified if I were her.

No, he shouldn't be allowed to write her and they should be able to stop him. Ban him from ever sending letters out. It really shouldn't be too hard since he keeps writing the victim.

3 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I would think the parole board, in all its wisdom, could accept the original mailings from this creep in lieu of her repeated testimony.  Couldn't they take that into evidence?  Seriously, she is the VICTIM here.  She shouldn't have to go out of her way like this!  She could either type up her victim statement, or even record and send it in!  This needs to be fixed tout de suite!

They really should be able to accept that and since he keeps writing her shouldn't that be a violation of something? Reason enough to stop giving him parole hearings? She is the victim and shouldn't have to keep going through this nor should he be able to demand hearings. 

8 hours ago, funky-rat said:

That was a different guy - I can't recall the name of the ID show it was on.  This was the boyfriend of a girl in her late teens/early 20's.  He demands parole hearings either yearly or every 2 years, and still sends the girl mail - sometimes threatening.  He thought he killed the girl, but she managed to survive.  I'll have to see if I can figure out what show it was.  It was a good show, but terrifying.

The guy who killed the little girl is on death row...where he should be.

ETA: Found it.  I thought this was from Philly, and I was right.  And it makes me sick that he can demand parole hearings yearly.  I live in PA, and I hope she got this passed:

https://truecrimedaily.com/2018/01/10/can-i-strangle-you-survivor-shares-story-of-rape-brutal-attempted-murder-frustration-with-legal-system/

Oops sorry! I got the two guys mixed up.

[LuvMyShows]

Has anyone seen the Forbidden, Dying for Love episode "Be My Savior"?  It was about an underage teenager and her 21-year old boyfriend who she eventually persuaded to kill her father (and step-mother).  But what was odd, was when one of the talking head commentators was talking about the girl, her mouth was clearly saying "fourteen" for the age, but the voiceover said "fifteen".  This happened at least three times.  I don't know if the talking head woman was wrong about her age, or if the girl really was 14 but for some reason they had to portray her as 15, so they dubbed the 15.

[renatae]

On 6/28/2019 at 5:58 PM, andromeda331 said:

They really should be able to accept that and since he keeps writing her shouldn't that be a violation of something? Reason enough to stop giving him parole hearings? She is the victim and shouldn't have to keep going through this nor should he be able to demand hearings.  

This is completely ridiculous. They are supposed to read all the mail. When he writes her, they should confiscate it and never allow it to be sent, period, then turn it over to the proper authorities.  Something is very wrong here. Add to that, the yearly parole hearings are something else again. What a travesty of justice.

😠

[Annber03]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:47 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Just watched the Forbidden Dying For Love episode "Onward Christian Soldier".  Were we supposed to feel sorry for her before she died?  It sure seems like that, but I didn't (although obviously I feel sorry that she was murdered).  She lied and connived for years and years, and brought it all on herself (although it was a dick move for that music minister to show her letter around).

I just watched that one, and my main takeaway from that episode was that I wouldn't want to be a member of that church, because those people were WAY too up in each other's personal business. The whole policy of a freaking chaperone for two adults going out together is just beyond creepy. 

And yes to your comment about the minister showing that letter. I know that he was led to believe that she'd separated from her husband, but still, dude, even when you knew she was married, you were clearly attracted to her and flirting with her anyway, so you've got no real room to judge here.

I felt for those poor kids. Losing both their parents in such awful ways like that...damn. 

[Jacqs]

Samantha Reed Smith. A simple plane accident but there was a widespread belief in the USSR that it was criminal murder. It's interesting how deep paranoia ran in the Soviet Union.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 6/28/2019 at 10:47 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Has anyone seen the Forbidden, Dying for Love episode "Be My Savior"?  It was about an underage teenager and her 21-year old boyfriend who she eventually persuaded to kill her father (and step-mother).  But what was odd, was when one of the talking head commentators was talking about the girl, her mouth was clearly saying "fourteen" for the age, but the voiceover said "fifteen".  This happened at least three times.  I don't know if the talking head woman was wrong about her age, or if the girl really was 14 but for some reason they had to portray her as 15, so they dubbed the 15.

Yeah. You're right. That one expert did say 14, but, it was dubbed over to say 15.  Not sure why that happened. According to this article the girl was 15 when she got pregnant and arranged murder of her father and step mother.

https://www.wvlt.tv/home/headlines/51245237.html

[nokat]

I'm really liking Lone Star Justice. The re-enactments are cheesy, of course, but I like the actual detectives, especially Rasco.

The cult investigations, I just don't understand when people say "he was so enthralling." Maybe because I'm not a religious person, but I'm usually thinking "he sounds like a nutter." And then it usually ends up being a religious front to abusing kids, and someone saying they are God or Jesus.
 

[Annber03]

11 minutes ago, nokat said:

The cult investigations, I just don't understand when people say "he was so enthralling." Maybe because I'm not a religious person, but I'm usually thinking "he sounds like a nutter." And then it usually ends up being a religious front to abusing kids, and someone saying they are God or Jesus.

Agreed. I just love how these guys (and it's almost always guys) claim they get these "messages from God"...and those messages aren't to, y'know, help the poor, or feed the hungry, or things of that sort.

No, God always seems to want them to have sex with as many people as possible. I didn't realize God was so invested in people's sex lives like that!

[nokat]

5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Agreed. I just love how these guys (and it's almost always guys) claim they get these "messages from God"...and those messages aren't to, y'know, help the poor, or feed the hungry, or things of that sort.

No, God always seems to want them to have sex with as many people as possible. I didn't realize God was so invested in people's sex lives like that!

And people let their own kids get abused! I don't get it. Nutter says "I'm God, that means I get to have sex with all your wives and kids." Cultists say, have at them. What?

Oh, and working your ass off doesn't mean food and shelter for the poor, just high living, sex with minors, and everything I preach against.

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by nokat

[Annber03]

48 minutes ago, nokat said:

And people let their own kids get abused! I don't get it. Nutter says "I'm God, that means I get to have sex with all your wives and kids." Cultists say, have at them. What?

YES! I mean, I know they can get horribly brainwashed and all, but dear god, at some point there has to be a line, doesn't there? Anyone tried to ask to have sex with my kid I'd kick them where the sun didn't shine and get us the hell out of there. And then I'd call the cops. 

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone watch the recent Breaking Homicide episode "The Killer In My Bed"?  Usually Levasseur has at least some law enforcement professional of some sort who will give him some info about the case.  But in this case, the one law enforcement guy (detective?) he spoke to said he couldn't tell him anything because it was still an open investigation, so Levasseur literally had no case information to go on, not even names or documents.  It was very weird.

He ended up interviewing one or two people, and finding a few things out, which led him to two possible suspects.  But who knows if there were 10 more legit suspects, because the info he was working from was soooo limited, based only on what he could find out from the few people he actually spoke with and what they knew.

So since he basically had nothing, there was a lot of filler, like a weird interview literally on a street corner with some kind of expert (profiler maybe?), but she contributed nothing and again, she was working from basically nothing because he knew so little.  Then at the end, he had this computer-generated re-enactment that showed absolutely nothing, but that detective guy from the beginning of the show, acted very impressed by it.  And because the detective guy couldn't say anything about the theory, we have no idea if Levasseur was onto something or out in left field.

Also, interestingly, when analyzing the two suspects -- one of which was male and one was female -- they talked about a romantic motive, but only for the man.  It never occurred to him that the murder victim could have been a lesbian, even though going from stereotypes from her pictures, she certainly could have been one.

Overall, one of the weakest episodes they've had.

[Fable]

These cult shows are almost all the same.  Demigod who claims to be God and goes on to physically, mentally and sexually abuse their members. 

What strikes me, is that many of the children who grew up in that environment instinctively knew something was wrong.  If a child, who has no knowledge beyond what they know, question what is happening, I have to wonder how the adults did not realize something was wrong. 

[funky-rat]

On 7/4/2019 at 3:57 AM, nokat said:

The cult investigations, I just don't understand when people say "he was so enthralling." Maybe because I'm not a religious person, but I'm usually thinking "he sounds like a nutter." And then it usually ends up being a religious front to abusing kids, and someone saying they are God or Jesus.

Cults prey upon those who are struggling in life.  People who are seeking something to give them meaning or purpose, or those who are cast out of "normal" society for any number of reasons.  Cult leaders can find these people easily, and with a lot of double-talk can grab their attention.  Doomsday Cult type people will seek out preppers, those who mistrust the government, etc.  Jim Jones specifically sought out African Americans during the height of the civil rights movement.  Heaven's Gate picked up people who were big believers in SciFi stuff, and had tried Scientology and found it wasn't for them.  Many of these groups settle in locations where they know pockets of potential victims can be found.  Then the brainwashing begins. 

They use sleep depravation, food depravation, and hard labor to make their minds mushy and open to suggestion.  Isolation is the next step - telling people their families/friends are harming them, or don't understand them and they must cut off all ties with them because they wish them harm (when it's actually to keep them from saying "This is wrong"), followed up by lots of affirmation from the leader or their minions that the new recruit is smart, is loved, belongs, etc.  Fear is the 3rd step - telling people that those outside their belief system want to murder them, take their kids away, etc.  Last step is making them financially destitute (while lining the coffers of the cult and their leader). 

Now the person is malnourished, exhausted all the time, and has no energy to fight.  They're also scared to go anywhere but where they are.  At any sign of fighting back, they're told they'll be cast out to the people who want to kill them, so they stay in line.  Aside from the fear of the outside world, they also no longer have any support system because they told friends and family to kiss off, and no money to try to start over.  At some point, they just accept this as "normal".

This is one reason that ex-Scientologists have gone to great lengths to set up systems to help those who want to escape.  Those who grew up in Scamatology have barely any education, and they have no money, and will be harassed by former members, so their options are few.  Many former Scientologists start businesses and will offer training and a job to escapees while they set their lives back up.

I'm super cynical, so it's easy for me to say "C'mon.  You let your kids go through this?", but I'm not in their shoes.  I've personally seen how easy it is for people I thought were "sane" to fall victim to televangelists, etc.

[nokat]

2 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Cults prey upon those who are struggling in life.

That is very true, as we've seen with every cult shown. I went to church and Sunday bible school as a child. My mother saw our pastor get a bit too "handsy" with me and promptly stayed away from that church. That is what I would expect from most mothers. The mothers who are so enthralled by a person who claims to be the next Jesus, that they will let their daughters be abused. Sorry, but I can't forgive that.