The Books vs. The Show: Comparisons, Speculation, and Snark

[nodorothyparker]

I could have sworn that they did identify Angus as the one giving the beating but it's possible that I'm mixing that up with the book where Angus is much more clearly separate from the other men.  Rupert is the one getting the scolding about the horse's hoof in the beginning and the one who follows Claire to the stables and tells her that's the way it's going to be.   They are very similar looking though.

 

Which ever one it was giving the beating, the actor did a great job though of conveying just with expression how much he didn't want to keep going but was going to because he was following orders.

[WatchrTina]

I think I may have spotted an improvement in the TV plot vs. book plot.  In the book, Laoghaire shows up to thank Jamie right after Claire and Mrs. Fitz have finished doctoring him.  The poor girl doesn't stand a chance with Jamie at that point, really, because Jamie's still in the after-glow of Claire tending his wounds AGAIN.  I always thought Jamie kissing Laoghaire in the book was a bit out of character.  But in the TV show, Claire says goodbye right before Laoghaire turns up to say thank you.  And like the song says, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."  It makes much more sense that Jamie would respond to Laoghaire's interest in him when he's feeling a wee bit rejected by Claire.  I hope he doesn't learn that Claire is staying until she happens upon him and Laoghaire snogging.

 

That being said -- I really want to see that scene where Claire sits down to lunch with auld Alec and Jamie and teases Jamie about being careful with "fillies".  I especially want close-ups of the foot stomping and ankle-kicking under the table.  And of course I want Alec's final diagnoses of the situation -- telling Claire that Jamie needs a woman, not a girl, and Laoghaire will always be a girl, even when she's old.

Edited August 18, 2014 by WatchrTina

[DoughGirl]

Okay, I caved and ordered Starz to watch and am not sure now if I should have because I'm not liking the changes. I was afraid of this which is why I was holding out. Plus I hate to pay more than I already do for cable.

I'll give it another epi or so before I decide whether or not to cancel. I'm still stuck paying for a full month now anyway.

[ihartcoffee]

Okay, I caved and ordered Starz to watch and am not sure now if I should have because I'm not liking the changes. I was afraid of this which is why I was holding out. Plus I hate to pay more than I already do for cable.

I'll give it another epi or so before I decide whether or not to cancel. I'm still stuck paying for a full month now anyway.

Try to watch without expectations. I also watch the episode twice, I catch more.

You could cancel for a while and binge watch later.

[Kirsty]

I read the first book years ago and can't remember: Did Jamie take the beating for that girl because he was the one who was making out with her/engaging in "loose behaviour" with her?

 

Edited to say thanks! Somehow I thought there was more to it, and he hadn't mentioned it to Claire because he's attracted to her.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Kirsty

[nodorothyparker]

No.  He'd never actually talked to her at that point.  He felt sorry for her because she was only 16 in the book and he knew it would shame her to be strapped probably on her bare ass in front of everyone.  I hadn't really thought of it before as an instance of being too big for his britches as someone else wonderfully put it here, but as portrayed there did seem to be an element of showing off for him too.

[Glaze Crazy]

I like the little tweaks to the book, so far.  I think it tightens up the story, and the fake-out of 'you can leave/no wait, you're staying' added some tension and intrigue to what the MacKenzies have up their sleeves.   I am also wondering about what differences might be coming in the next episode based on the previews, but I'm willing to let them tell the story, since any changes so far have added layers without changing the overall arc.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Glaze Crazy

[CatMack]

I have to say while I didn't dislike her, I was very meh on Giellis in the books.  I think I recall Claire referring to her as her only friend at one point - I remember because when I read that I thought, really?  Their friendship just never really felt like a friendship to me.  But I adored Giellis instantly on the show.  I think having Claire meet her virtually immediately, and having her be Claire's translator, really really works.  I already care more about their relationship after one episode of the show than I did after the entire first book, which will make what's coming a lot more painful of course. 

[Athena]

@CatMack I agree with this and considering what we learn about Geillis later, I'm torn. I loved the casting of Lotte Verbeek. She is gorgeous and magnetic so I'll be sad to watch her become even more horrid by time of Voyager. 

[raspberry7]

I always thought Jamie kissing Laoghaire in the book was a bit out of character.  But in the TV show, Claire says goodbye right before Laoghaire turns up to say thank you.  And like the song says, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."

 

So agree. I l-o-v-e the books but this and other changes are strengthening the plot for me. I like that it seems that Ron D. Moore is reverential in a way but also not afraid to try to improve.

 

[absnow54]

Especially since he started fooling around with Laoghaire after he'd shown zero interest in her at the gathering. I assume that he was using her to relieve some of the tension from the not so pure thoughts he was having about Claire, which was a pretty shitty thing for him to do. I'm not sure of the context of the preview though. It still may play out the same as in the book.

[DoughGirl]

Try to watch without expectations. I also watch the episode twice, I catch more.

You could cancel for a while and binge watch later.

I'm one of those people that always prefers the book to show/movie since way back when I saw the movie version of National Velvet, so I should know better by now.

After seeing next week's preview, I have a speculation that Mrs. Fitz is going to turn on Claire due to her being Laoghaire's grandmother (when it becomes obvious that Jaimie prefers Claire). IIRC she was nicer to Claire in the book.

I didn't like the Claire being held prisoner because of her healing skills change because I think the book version of Claire being fascinated by and taking over Davie Beaton's surgery serves to show how well she will adapt to eighteenth century life while using her twentieth century skills.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Since no book talk allowed in the episode thread, I wanted to mention that I snickered when Laoghaire showed up, because it brought back all the times my friends who had read the books and were trying to convince me to give it a try, called her. They always referred to her as the 'hosebeast' and different variations thereof, I suspect because she came in between Jaime and Claire. And now I have to try very hard not to type in 'hosebeast' whenever I refer to her in the episode threads.

 

And though I'm not a lover of the series, I have a hankerin' to just get Outlander and read the darned thing again, even as I'm watching the show, in the hopes that some of the things will make sense to me, even if they are deviating from the books.

[WatchrTina]

 

'hosebeast'

Hmmphmm!  That made me snicker.  I still mentally call her "laow-hair" even though I now know it's pronounced "lee-ree" because that's what I called her in my head while I read it and because it sounds so much like "lousy" (the wee, scheming bitch.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

Hmmphmm!  That made me snicker.  I still mentally call her "laow-hair" even though I now know it's pronounced "lee-ree" because that's what I called her in my head while I read it and because it sounds so much like "lousy" (the wee, scheming bitch.)

 

Hah! Then I'm in good company and y'all will ken whoo I'm talkin' aboot, when I do end up calling her that!

[WatchrTina]

I've just realized that the correct pronunciation of Laoghaire is the same as the word leery -- and since I'm verra leery of that woman (and so should Jamie be) that's going to make it easy to remember.

[annlaw78]

 

Especially since he started fooling around with Laoghaire after he'd shown zero interest in her at the gathering. I assume that he was using her to relieve some of the tension from the not so pure thoughts he was having about Claire, which was a pretty shitty thing for him to do. I'm not sure of the context of the preview though. It still may play out the same as in the book.

I'll cut him some slack.  I know the Jamie-as-virgin thing is canon, and that won't be changed, but it is a bit improbable that he's gotten to his age (especially given the actor is in his 30s), looking the way he does, and having lived "a bit of rough" and be completely untouched.  I think it'd be overly Mary Sue of him to turn down a snog from Laoghaire because he has a bit of  crush at this point on a woman who he'll never see again.  I know it's a different time, different morals, etc.  But to paraphrase R. Kelly, I don't see nothing wrong, with a little making out. 

[Athena]

I'll cut him some slack.  I know the Jamie-as-virgin thing is canon, and that won't be changed, but it is a bit improbable that he's gotten to his age (especially given the actor is in his 30s), looking the way he does, and having lived "a bit of rough" and be completely untouched. 

 

Yeah, I give Jamie some slack in this regard as well. For those who have read the Outlander graphic novel, he also discusses the girl he knew in France whom he had a thing for as well. Yes, Claire is his true love, but Jamie not sharing a snog or two with good looking ladies seems a bit too extreme.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh! Something else, though this could also go in the episode thread, I suppose, but during the meal, when they all raised their chalices/glasses of wine, I expected to hear Slainte, but I didn't. Odd.

[Enigma X]

I think they did say "slàinte mhath." In the book, I think, they only said "slàinte." I could be wrong because I don't remember the book well.

[Glaze Crazy]

At this point in the story, although we are seeing some attraction between Jamie and Claire, I don't think he actually considered he would have any chance with her.  He's admitted he's an outlaw to her and for a man of his time, he would think he wasn't someone she would consider taking on, so I never had any issue with him getting in some kissing with a pretty girl.  Claire herself hasen't really behaved like she is interested in Jamie either, beyond caring for his injuries and a beginning friendship. She is just trying to get back to her own time at this stage.  I do like that they put the Jamie/Laoghaire kissing scene after he thinks Claire is long gone though, to add even more to the tension between Claire and Laoghaire later.

[nodorothyparker]

That.  In the book he's pretty clear that he knows he's not much of a prospect for any woman and likely wouldn't be accepted as a suitor because of his outlaw status.  He can't go back and be laird of his own land or hold any real position anywhere else as long as the murder charge is hanging over his head.  There really isn't much future for him in Scotland at this point beyond being a foot soldier for his uncles.  So while he can flirt and joke around with both Claire and to a lesser extent Laoghaire about marrying, it doesn't seem to be something he's thinking about as a realistic possibility.

 

I think the move of the macking in the alcove actually works better here as well.  He might as well take what little fun he can have where he can get it.  I didn't have a problem with it when I read it, but I've always thought it was a little oddly placed in the book.

Edited August 20, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[nodorothyparker]

I also know Laoghaire's pretty unpopular among book readers for obvious reasons but I actually feel rather bad for her.  Our first meeting with her is when she's being slut shamed before the entire clan (whether there's any truth to it or not) and avoids a public ass whipping for it only because her teenage crush feels sorry for her.  She's a complete product of her times and never really gets over that crush, having a pretty hard road in subsequent books because of it.  Old Alec is righter than he knows when he says she'll still be a girl when she's old.

[CatMack]

Speaking of Mrs Fitz in the preview, Claire telling her about her time travel status is a huge change from the book, so I'm gonna go ahead and predict it's a nightmare Claire has. 

[Athena]

Hello bookies, I just wanted to say how I'm happy with the level of self-moderation that has been apparent in the episode topics. When I took this show on, I did not know how well it would do or how we would make a place for the book readers and the non-book readers. We are doing the best we can here.

 

There are now watchers of the show who want to genuinely speculate on it without reading the books. I don't think this forum will need an Unsullied area like Game of Thrones (thank goodness), but I'm glad none of the bookers have gone into the "Speculation without Spoilers" topic to hint or like some of the theories being posted. Even when I read a couple of posts there, I'm a bit itchy since I know what happens to Claire and Jamie in relation to historical events. 

 

Just wanted to say thank you. You're a lovely bunch to share the books and the show with. Can't wait until the next episode. 

[WatchrTina]

So this may qualify as a wee bit of a spoiler though it's really just speculation.  In the podcast for episode 102, Terry Fanning (Costume Designer and Ron Moore's wife) said something interesting while she looked at shirtless Sam/Jamie in the fire-side bandaging scene.  She remarked about how different Sam looks "now".  Which I took to mean "right now," as in during the filming of Block 8 -- the final two episodes of the season -- which just began today.  We readers know the shit that goes down at the end of Outlander.  And I recall someone asking Sam at Comic-con about his weight.  They speculated that he had dropped weight to better portray what Jamie goes through at the end of the book.  Sam only smiled and answered "maybe."  But given Terry's reaction to the very buff and braw Jamie in episode 102, I'm thinking our young Jamie may literally be "wee" Jamie for the last two episodes.  If so, here's hoping he has time to bulk back up before season 2 begins because I like my Jamie "well fit".

Edited August 20, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Pestilentia]

If so, here's hoping he has time to bulk back up before season 2 begins because I like my Jamie "well fit".

Absolutely.

If he can't be as tall as book Jamie at least keep the brawn.

It does look good on him  :)

[WatchrTina]

 

If he can't be as tall as book Jamie at least keep the brawn.

Actually I think Sam is only an inch shorter than Book!Jamie.  It's just that everyone else is a lot taller than their book counterparts (presumably due to good nutrition in the modern era).  As a result, he doesn't stand out as unusually tall among the extras the way he does in the book.  You can see it in that scene in the hall as Colum walks to his chair.  That is one of the few shots we've seen with Jamie shown full length in comparison to the general population and while he looks tall, it's not all that noteworthy.

[peacefrog]

Yeah that podcast had a huge spoiler for non-book readers where Ron let it slip about Geillis!

I kind of assumed Terry was also talking about Sam's hair when she mentioned how different he looks. I just saw a picture of him and the others during their Sunday Scotch Talk and he did not look noticeably thinner to me.

@Athena I find it hard to comment on the character threads now because of what I know! I'm going to have to wait until more is revealed before I do. :) I do love the comments of the non-book readers, some are really astute.

[DoughGirl]

I also know Laoghaire's pretty unpopular among book readers for obvious reasons but I actually feel rather bad for her.  Our first meeting with her is when she's being slut shamed before the entire clan (whether there's any truth to it or not) and avoids a public ass whipping for it only because her teenage crush feels sorry for her.  She's a complete product of her times and never really gets over that crush, having a pretty hard road in subsequent books because of it.  Old Alec is righter than he knows when he says she'll still be a girl when she's old.

I agree with this. I feel both her and Frank's characters were demonized to smooth the way for Jamie and Claire's perfect pairing. It is like they were just collateral damage, especially Frank, of Jamie and Claire's earth shaking romance.

It seems to me that the show is putting more emphasis on Claire missing Frank than the book did. Rather than happily immersing herself in Davie Beaton's surgery on her own, in the show she is compelled to be there. I know a lot of readers were wondering how she could seem to forget Frank so easily-I believe there were pages added to Cross Stitch about Claire missing him? I didn't like this change in the show but perhaps that is some of the reasoning behind it.

[WatchrTina]

 

Yeah that podcast had a huge spoiler for non-book readers where Ron let it slip about Geillis!

Oooh, you are so right.  I completely missed that because I'm a reader and also because I so loved the anecdote he was sharing about the shoes.  I wonder if they'll go back and erase that comment from the podcast.  I'm sure others have pointed it out to him by now.

[nodorothyparker]

I feel both her (Laoghaire) and Frank's characters were demonized to smooth the way for Jamie and Claire's perfect pairing. It is like they were just collateral damage, especially Frank, of Jamie and Claire's earth shaking romance

 

That's been my take on the series too.  Neither of them are perfect by any stretch and it's not like I was rooting for them, but they aren't monsters either.  (And yes, I realize Laoghaire's actions at 16 could have ended pretty disastrously, but what spurned 16-year-old hasn't done something really stupid and short sighted because LUV?)   Both of them end up married to people who can't love them back through no real fault of their own and try to carry on according to the social rules of their times.  They do both behave pretty badly at times, but it's got to be tough living with a spouse who won't even pretend not to be pining for someone else.

Edited August 19, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[DoughGirl]

.

That's been my take on the series too.  Neither of them are perfect by any stretch and it's not like I was rooting for them, but they aren't monsters either.  (And yes, I realize Laoghaire's actions at 16 could have ended pretty disastrously, but what spurned 16-year-old hasn't done something really stupid and short sighted because LUV?)   Both of them end up married to people who can't love them back through no real fault of their own and try to carry on according to the social rules of their times.  They do both behave pretty badly at times, but it's got to be tough living with a spouse who won't even pretend not to be pining for someone else.

Yes. Whatever Frank's later transgressions, I feel sorry for him given the situation he's in.

[maraleia]

As @Athena helper mod here I want to echo her statements about book readers vs show watchers and how great all of you have been.

[Petunia846]

I'm rereading Dragonfly in Amber right now, and last night I read the scene where we first meet John Grey as the 16 year old kid who tried to save Claire from Jamie before Prestonpans. It reminded me of a question I had when he popped up again in Voyager, but I can't remember if it was ever answered. Did Jamie or Claire ever realize that the Lord John Grey who was the head of the prison was the same person as the kid they met in DiA and introduced himself as William Grey? And did John ever realize that the prisoner he fell in love with was also the guy who tricked him before that battle? And do Jamie and Claire know that Jamie escaped being executed at Culloden because they let that kid escape? I can't remember it being mentioned in any of the eight big books, but maybe it was, and I haven't read any of the John Grey books, so maybe it's in those? I'm curious, because that seems like a pretty big connection to make.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Petunia846

[WatchrTina]

 

Did Jamie or Claire ever realize that the Lord John Grey who was the head of the prison was the same person as the kid they met in DiA and introduced himself as William Grey? And did John ever realize that the prisoner he fell in love with was also the guy who tricked him before that battle?

Petunia846 I'm almost certain the answer is yes.  John's brother definitely does explain to Jamie why he is letting he go when bundles him off in the cart after Culloden.  And Jamie sees John's brother, the Duke, again during his period of semi-captivity as the groom "MacKenzie" in at least one of the John Gray novellas so they'd all make the connection then if not before.  But my memory is that John does recognize Jamie when he takes over the running of the prison and it is his memory of that first meeting that makes his feelings toward Jamie so complicated. I have a vague memory of them talking about their first meeting while at the prison.  I also seem to recall that in the scene in the Caribbean in Voyager when John and Jamie meet up again (where John is serving as Governor and Jamie turns up at a reception dressed as a French fop) John is shocked to meet Claire, having believed that she was dead.  I recall him mentioning to Claire that they had met before.  But I'm doing all that strictly from memory.  Even if John & Claire didn't recognize each other at first, Jamie would have certainly reminded Claire of their first meeting later on when he explained his whole tangled relationship with John Gray -- when he finally confesses to having fathered a son who is being raised by John.

Edited August 20, 2014 by WatchrTina

[peacefrog]

I'm rereading Dragonfly in Amber right now, and last night I read the scene where we first meet John Grey as the 16 year old kid who tried to save Claire from Jamie before Prestonpans. It reminded me of a question I had when he popped up again in Voyager, but I can't remember if it was ever answered. Did Jamie or Claire ever realize that the Lord John Grey who was the head of the prison was the same person as the kid they met in DiA and introduced himself as William Grey? And did John ever realize that the prisoner he fell in love with was also the guy who tricked him before that battle? And do Jamie and Claire know that Jamie escaped being executed at Culloden because they let that kid escape?

John realized it right away when he saw Jamie again. Jamie learned of why he was saved by Hal, John's brother, when it happened. Jamie definitely also knew who John was in the prison and he later told Claire(I think). All this happened in Voyager. I don't remember which book but John also told Claire that "her breasts were the first he ever saw". Not sure if that's when she learned he was the boy or if Jamie told her.

[WatchrTina]

Oooh, wait a minute.  Isn't John a passenger on the ship that kidnaps Claire (or "presses" her into service as their ship's doctor) in Voyager?  Now I think about it I'm almost sure he was -- that's how Jamie discovers who the new Governor of  <insert island name> is and why he goes to the reception to enlist John's help to find wee Ian.  But when Claire and John first meet on board the ship, Claire does not recognize him as the 16-year-old she first met just before the battle of Prestonpans and John does not recognize her either, particularly because she is using a false name at that point.  Aren't she and Jamie traveling as Mr and Mrs Alexander Malcom?

[Pestilentia]

She did not recognize him while on the ship, but he told her who he was later after they met again on the island. He was very surprised to find that the healer lady from the ship was actually Jamie's "Claire."

[Tif]

I've been rereading the series, but I read each section of "Outlander" after the episode to see how closely it follows.  I understand creative license and am not upset by the changes at all, it's just more of a curiosity than anything else.  I like how RM has changed the timeline with some of the scenes with Geillis.  

Upon rereading though, I find myself hoping that little snippets of dialogue and some one-liners are kept in the show.  The ones I'm thinking about at the moment are with Rupert.  Even though they are mostly ribald comments in reference to Claire, I always appreciated the humor when reading.  

[Petunia846]

Thanks guys, I'll have to pay more attention this time when I get to Voyager.

[peacefrog]

I'm hoping us book readers get a few surprises soon. I like being kept on my toes :).

I'm also another one who doesn't HATE Laoghaire. I just thought she was a 16 year old that did something without really thinking through the consequences. In later books she really had a hard life! Plus she raised 2 very spirited women who turned out right! I'm looking forward to seeing more of her the next episode.

Unfortunately for me I will be going away tomorrow for 10 days and will miss the next 2 episodes! Ugh! On the bright side I will be able to "binge" on 2 brand new episodes next Sunday night.

[some1105]

petunia--I confirm yes to your questions.  It's kind of funny, since I'm not really reading the books, but I'm spoiling myself silly on various boards.  Based on posts I've seen on these topics around and about the internets, all the various connections with LJG are unearthed/discussed between J/C/LJG over the course of the series from Voyager onward.

[Scottish Girl]

My people! Okay, nerdy confession time. I've been reading these books for 17 years and I really feel like Jamie and Claire are my "friends." (I'm not insane, I promise.)

So, I am beyond thrilled for the show. And I'm really thrilled that my husband, who doesn't read, but has watched me befriend these characters, is watching it with me. So far, I'm really happy with the show and I don't mind any liberties that have been taken.

I was seriously impressed with the actor who plays Frank/Black Jack. Again, my husband had, literally, no idea what the show was even really about, but as soon as Black Jack stood up and spoke to Claire, my husband said, "Oooohh! That's NOT Frank!" Gosh, what an actor! He was obviously a totally different person. That's talent.

[WatchrTina]

Episode 103 veered off from the book a bit but I really liked nearly all the changes.  The scene at the Black Kirk and the saving of Mrs Fitz' nephew were terrific additions that built upon the Claire-and-Jamie child-saving duo we first see in the pillory scene.  Claire massaging Colum was new but as she actually recommends that treatment to Colum in the book (Angus is already on the job) I think it makes perfect sense for her to take up the duty in the show.

 

I loved the foot-stomping scene and I'm glad Murtaugh was there to deliver the verdict to Claire ("He needs a woman, not a girl") even though it's Auld Alec in the book.

 

The only change that doesn't actually make sense is Jamie taking Claire away from the singing to get his bandages changed only to say, oh nevermind.  If he was worried about her being drunk he should have delivered her to her room.  How is she any better off drunk and by herself down in her surgery?  I don't think the show suggests that she sleeps down there.  I felt like he left her in a more vulnerable position by leaving her there.  In the book it makes much more sense -- he delivers her to her room because she's drunk but he also take advantage of the opportunity to get the chafing bandages removed without anyone else seeing his back.  That all got  bit muddled in the episode.  And don't get me started on all those candles left burning and unattended downstairs in the surgery during the performance.   For goodness sake Claire -- do you think Colum is made of money?

 

All that being said -- I loved the performances that went on in that lovely, candle-lit room and I can understand the show-runners not wanting that level of unresolved sexual tension going on in a bedroom.  If there had been a bed and a lockable door readily to hand, Jamie's decision to go would have been just a wee bit too hard to believe.  We book readers know Jamie is a virgin but I presume all the non-readers do not assume that about Jamie so his restraint must seem superhuman to them.  

Edited August 24, 2014 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

As someone who generally tends to be something of a book purist, I was really prepared to not like any of the changes.  For the most part, though, they worked for me.  I still think a lot of the stuff with angry hulk priest and the exorcism was excessive and a little heavy handed, but everything else was so wonderful that I can't bring myself to object all that much.  The kirkyard scene was so gorgeous to look at and still managed to incorporate some relevant book dialogue and eye flirting in the middle of CSI: Highlander Edition. 

 

Loved Claire's awkward attempt to play matchmaker as Jamie continued to blow off Laoghaire left and right at the first music night.  That was straight out of the books, right down to the younger girl's befuddlement at being treated as a server.  The detour to the surgery did seem weird, and yeah what was with leaving all those candles burning in a room nobody was in?  But I think it did go a long way in furthering the idea that Claire is really on Jamie's radar even if he doesn't realistically know what he can do about it, while she's really not mentally going there yet because she's still focused on Frank and getting the hell out of there.

 

I see they completely decided to gloss over the fact that the last time Jamie saw Claire he was under the impression she was leaving and he wouldn't be seeing her again.  I guess we have to fanwank that one as gossip travels fast in the ye olde castle, which makes the way the Laoghaire kiss was handled make even less sense.  In the book, they're behind a curtain in an alcove and only Claire sees them.  Here, they're in full sight of everyone in the kitchen area, which is just plain stupid given that he very recently took a beating for her because she was already getting that reputation.  I like the change to Murtaugh being the one to weigh in on it all though.  It really needed to come from someone we know knows Jamie well and they haven't really established that with Old Alec in the show.

 

I also liked the addition of the scene with Colum and Claire.  They're always mentally sizing each other up, and the stuff with the tailor was a nice reminder not to underestimate Colum as a sick old man.  He manages to hold the position of laird and leader of the clan despite no longer being able to lead men through sheer force of his will and brain as Claire is periodically reminded in the book.

Edited August 24, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[rainsmom]

I loved the addition of the Black Kirk, and the saving of Mrs. Fitz's... was it grandson? My guess is they will use this scene as a replacement for the changeling baby on the fairy hill. They might be afraid that viewers wouldn't like seeing Claire be forced to abandon a baby that eventually dies. Here she's allowed to interfere and save the child, but she still provides a LOT of fodder to be used against her in the trial.

[CatMack]

I'm reading the series for the first time, am halfway through Voyager (don't worry, I can live with spoilers for other books, if I hadn't spoiled myself for parts of the series I would have thrown my copy of Dragonfly in Amber across the room when I started and never would have finished it).  I'm now introducing my roommate to the TV show and as I'm rewatching the pilot it occurs to me that the voiceovers actually kind of make sense in the context of Claire telling Bree and Roger the story.  At the beginning of the pilot she very clearly is speaking about everything that happened to her as past tense, how she would make the same choices even knowing the heartbreak that would come from them.  Yeah it's a narrative tool that can be used even without the voiceover literally being someone telling a story, but since Claire does in fact end up narrating what happened to her, I wonder if they'll use that deliberately when they get that far.  And if they'll stop the voiceovers after that point.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Help? Did I miss something and need to rewatch all three episodes?

 

Jaime mentioned to Claire about not wanting Alec to see his scars. Now is this paternal grandfather Alec Fraser, and was he talking about when he was first flogged and didn't want him to see the scars, or is there another Alec on Leoch that he was talkin' aboot?

[Glaze Crazy]

I like some of the changes that are being made for the screen.  I wish they had taken the opportunity to move that Jamie/Laoghaire kissing scene to a place between when he thought Claire was gone and finding out she's still there, since they added that plot point anyway, even to his first clue being him seeing her sitting there while he's with Laoghaire.  But, then again, it would make his kind of ignoring Laoghaire at the concert more of a jerk action than just that he's trying to casually chat up Claire without any clue that Laoghaire has her eyes on him.  Now that I've typed out both those sentences, I guess I'm good with how they presented it, since it looks like either sequence was awkward in some aspects.

 

I lked the addition of more foreshadowing to the conflict that will arise with Father Bain.  Showing her practically rendering him useless by curing that boy, plus if they keep the scene of the dog attack/blood poisoning/"let me fix it or you're gonna die" curse gives the eventual showdown even more punch.

 

The tailor I didn't think was necessary, unless it gets tied in to show some inner castle conflict among the clan about Colum's ability to really be the Laird due to his condition.  That would help to explain why Colum needed to be shown exerting his authority (and a knife.)

 

I think, overall as a book reader, I like some extra stuff.  I kind of envy the non-bookies who are getting a brand new story without any idea where it's going.

 

rainsmom I don't think they can skip the changling scene since it's a major plot point in the future.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Glaze Crazy