S20.E14: Finale Results: Two-Hour Finale

[kitcloudkicker]

No one on this show "deserves" anything, so I didn't bring up the Nastia stuff to make a case for why she NEEDED to be in the finale. For me the final week fell flat, and I think it would have been a more interesting show with her in it. She had a connection with Derek that I'm bummed wasn't shown. You can argue that it needed to come through in the dances, and maybe it still didn't, but the packages set up whispers that affect how people see the dancing. Just something I was disappointed about. Maybe it would have changed the result 0% if they showed more of that, who knows. They finished where they did. I don't know that it needed to have "changed anything" to have her there, it just would have made the finale more interesting to have both Rumer and her there, IMO.

IMO, IMO, IMO.

Edited May 21, 2015 by kitcloudkicker

[anony mouse]

I'm surprised they didn't show any of that. The three of them seemed to be having lots of fun. And Nastia accidentally hitting Derek in his self-declared "man bits" with her butt during a sexy move was pretty funny. The showrunners seem to enjoy showing those kinds of moments (see: Witney and Alfonso) so I'm surprised they didn't show that one with the three of them.

They didn't show it because it didn't fit their narrative arc for Nastia. A lot of people have this perception that she's super intense and cold, but when you watched the live feeds, it was very different from what they aired on the show.

It's unfair, but it's not the first or last contestant the producers will do it to.

[truthaboutluv]

No one on this show "deserves" anything, so I didn't bring up the Nastia stuff to make a case for why she NEEDED to be in the finale. For me the final week fell flat, and I think it would have been a more interesting show with her in it.

 

 

This. I have never been one who gets up in arms about who deserves to be in the end or not because while this is supposedly a dance show, it's also ultimately a popularity contest and if you don't get votes, you're eliminated. That being said, I agree with you that in my opinion, one of the reasons the finale was even more of a dud was the fact that Rumer really had no competition. And I just personally believe having someone else dance gorgeously and be technically amazing would have made for a more interesting night.  

 

Case in point, compare the Semi-Final week to the Finals. I'm sure some would say the Finals was better, especially if their favorite won but I thought the Semi Finals was FAR more superior to the Finals. Now granted the repeat dance stuff for the Finals does not help but I stand by my assessment that I was less than overwhelmed by any of the freestyles so yeah... It was just lackluster in my opinion and Rumer was really the only one who was truly good so it was just like "Shrug...she wins."  

 

I mean yeah last season some would say Alfonso's win was a given but Janel gave two strong performances at the end and while not the best dancer, I know some really loved Mark and Sadie's freestyle, so there was that. And I for one loved Bethany's freestyle. I just found this season's finals so underwhelming and lackluster. You had only one couple do anything close to amazing and frankly even their freestyle underwhelmed in my opinion. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[janerazor]

I thought Riker was better in his encore of his freestyle than with the actual freestyle. I did grow to like him this season and may have even been in his camp except for Allison. Sweet girl, but I just don't like her as a ballroom dancer. 

I was happy for Rumer's win. Her sisters going bananas in the audience was darned cute.

I really don't like that kind of weird angst-ridden contemporary dance, though the kid dancers were sick talented. It seemed to me the kind of dance that was more interesting for the choreographer and the dancers than those watching it.

The bad lip reading was funny! It was to me anyway, but I love that kind of thing. However, I will agree with a lot of others that the show could have done something nice for Len, this being his last season. He's been my favorite judge, that grumpy old man. I've generally found him to be the most honest and forthright on the judges panel.

Though it pains me to say this, after seeing the eliminated contestants dance, I have to admit that Chris really did improve a ton over the season. I still think he has the personality of a sink of dishwater, but he became a not-half-bad dancer by the end of his run.

Sasha is awesome. I wish he would have been paired up with Nastia the whole time. I remember he even made me like Snooki. Snooki! 

[Fliz]

Well, after handing him ringer after ringer after ringer, it finally worked out this time.

I hope they point these mystical powers at Tony next season, then - he's paid his dues. Or Artem - because he's yummy.

[Stitsch]

I hope they point these mystical powers at Tony next season, then - he's paid his dues. Or Artem - because he's yummy.

 

Tony's choreography consistently bores me, but I agree re: Artem's yumminess. He was the perfect partner for Patti this season too. On the flipside, while he gave Lea some wonderful routines, he also gave her some not so great routines.

 

Either way, I'm pushing for a female winner next season. Sharna would be ideal, especially after her amazing choreo this season. Emma is a longshot, but she's come up with fun routines in the past. I've warmed up to Peta after the catastrophe that was James. Another win for Witney would be acceptable, but IMO, overkill. Mark's done great work, but I fear that handing him a ringer will turn him once again into Egomaniac!Guyliner Mark, which is different than handing him Sadie, because I'm not sure anyone anticipated her snagging second place. I'd be okay with never seeing Derek again, and while Allison is a very sweet girl, I don't think DWTS is for her.

 

Also disagree that the fix has been in for Val for "seasons". The guy had Elizabeth Berkeley the same season Derek had the popular Glee star, so. Mileages vary. 

[LadyMustang65]

They had to take out the competition to get Val that win.

 

I disagree.  Val and Rumer got Val and Rumer the win.  Nastia was a gorgeous dancer, but I wasn't feeling her early on in the competition either, so it wasn't just a 'narrative' the show was building.  Lots of viewers felt the same way and didn't need the judges to say anything.  Then you had the folks who wouldn't have voted for Derek this season if the reincarnation of Ginger Rogers was his partner because they were tired of hearing him say he was taking a season off and then showing up again.  There was a lot of sentiment that he should have concentrated on the Radio City show instead of trying to split his time between two.  Then there are the folks who had a preconceived dislike of Nastia from her gymnastics days when she was known for throwing shade at her other teammates, especially Shawn Johnson.  So there was a whole lot of baggage with that couple from the get-go.  I agree that Nastia should have been in the finals, but it's the fault of the voters that she wasn't, not the fault of the show.  Nastia was the highest-scoring dancer for the season up to that point.  I seriously doubt there were enough people 'turned off' by a 'negative' package, which was actually only negative if you think that she should have bowed to the producers' requests for 'drama.'  I think it was all the other baggage that did them in.  If they had survived into the finale, it is hardly a foregone conclusion that Nastia would have won. 

 

Does the show want different pros to win?  Absolutely.  The executive director even said in an interview that if they could control the outcome, they wouldn't have had Derek win 5 times.  But I don't think it's fair to say that Val only won because the show rigged it somehow.  Val may not be everyone's cup of tea, just as Derek isn't, but he's a beautiful dancer, a talented choreographer, and he works very hard for his partners.  And Rumer was every bit as good as Nastia technique-wise by the end, and lots of people liked her a lot.  She worked really hard all season, didn't complain, got better as the weeks progressed, and is deserving of the win. 

[Mbeaker]

I think the judges harping on "connection" or lack thereof did more damage than the so called negative package where Nastia refused the producers. I felt something missing in her dances with Derek, but I've felt that for a few other dancers in the past yet I don't remember the judges ever commenting on it essentially every week. If ever. For all his technical ability, for example, Corbin and Karina left me cold. And I remember many people feeling the same way. However, that was never their narrative. Once or twice I could live with, but it just became excessive IMO how many times the judges focused in on the "connection" aspect with Nastia.

Having said that, I think the right person won and would have won even if we got a Derek freestyle.

[superdeluxe]

I hope they point these mystical powers at Tony next season, then - he's paid his dues. Or Artem - because he's yummy

 

Tony has already won (even though his win most definitely should come with an asterisk).  They seem to be going for people who haven't won yet.

 

But it's not "mystical powers".  Once again, Val has had the most ringers.  They kept handing them to him until he won.

[VioletMarx]

Val has had the most ringers.  They kept handing them to him until he won.

 

Danica McKellar was a ringer? Did Janel Parrish have dance experience? Why didn't they give him the gymnast this year?

Edited May 21, 2015 by VioletMarx

[Stitsch]

But it's not "mystical powers".  Once again, Val has had the most ringers.  They kept handing them to him until he won.

 

Zendaya was the only ringer Val's had. You can argue a case for Elizabeth, since Showgirls, but other than that, Zendaya is the only one. Derek has had Nicole Scherzinger (the ringiest ringer to ever ring), Jennifer Grey, Shawn Johnson, Nastia Liukin, and arguably Amber Riley. In no way has Val had the most ringers.

[truthaboutluv]

Danica McKellar was a ringer? Did Janel Parrish have dance experience? Why didn't they give him the gymnast this year?

 

Danica had done some ballroom classes when she was younger and yes Janel did have dance experience and in fact Janel would be more a ringer in my opinion than Nastia. Again, I find the notion that gymnasts are dance ringers untrue. They are flexible and strong yes but it does not make them dancers. I'm not saying I agree that a fix was in for Val but it is true that other than Sherri Shepard, Val has had a string of more than capable celebrities. 

 

Some might say Derek got Amber when Val got Elizabeth Berkley and sure, Amber had the benefit of being on a show that was still on the air and current versus Elizabeth who hadn't been in anything meaningful for years but it doesn't change the fact that she was a trained jazz dancer and was actually amazing on the show. Elizabeth was done in by her own neuroses that made her not appealing to voters.

 

But once again, the point is, Val has gotten more than capable partners often and this isn't surprising because like I always say, it's an entertainment show at the end of the day and of course the producers don't want him leaving in the first week or two. But sometimes it's like it is unacceptable to say so because I guess the fact that he hasn't won 5 times makes it untrue. 

 

Derek has had Nicole Scherzinger (the ringiest ringer to ever ring), Jennifer Grey, Shawn Johnson, Nastia Liukin, and arguably Amber Riley.

 

 

If Amber Riley was a ringer then there is no arguably in my opinion that Elizabeth Berkley was very much one and even Danica with her few years doing ballroom and Janel. Same with Jennifer Grey - yes she did dance when she was younger but she was well past her prime and dancing years, so if she was still a ringer, then Elizabeth was.

 

And again, how were Shawn and Nastia, two gymnasts, ringers in a dance competition? Being flexible, strong and an athlete does not make one an automatic dancer and if that's the case, are we saying Aly Raisman, whose musicality was probably as bad as Chris Soules was a ringer? Because she was also a gymnast and an accomplished one too. Hell her individual gold medal was for her floor exercise. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[realdancemom]

I didn't feel any connection the first few weeks Nastia danced. This was before the judges mentioned it. I thing the reason that they brought it up was because that was her growth arc. Technically, she was already better than other dancers. She did have too much flexibility at the beginning that made her look like a rag doll in dances like the samba. But she fixed that quickly. The majority of the voters don't know good or bad technique. They vote for people that they like or look like they are having fun. I didn't think that Bill E, Candice, or Noah should have been in the finals. However, I could see why voters would vote for them.

IMHO, Corbin was exciting to watch but so was Amber. The freestyles were great that year. Amber edged him out because it was different. Personality wise, Amber was more relatable and outgoing. Corbin was polite and pc. He was a hard worker and didn't get frustrated. Glee fans were huge at the time while HSM was old news.

[realdancemom]

Both Val and Derek have great partners every year. Mark sometimes does too but he's usually the babysitter. Tony is old lady or crazy duty. He got Melissa because his original partner couldn't. His choreography is boring so I'm ok with that. I wish Sasha and Henry could be pros but they are not going to get ringers until they are there longer.

[Stitsch]

But sometimes it's like it is unacceptable to say so because I guess the fact that he hasn't won 5 times makes it untrue. 

 

Saying he's had the most ringers is untrue. If anything, he and Derek have had the same amount of ringers -- which is to be expected, since the show pushes them as the leading men. Val is not favored over Derek, point blank.

[radishcake]

Guys give the ringer topic a rest OR take it over to the Grassy Knoll. And as ever, please be respectful and don't harangue each other.

[tessaforever]

I hope they point these mystical powers at Tony next season, then - he's paid his dues. Or Artem - because he's yummy.

 

Oh yes, I was surprised that during the all-male dance in the finale, it was Artem that I focused on the most! He looked amazing! Until his partnership with Patti (I thought he handled her beautifully), I haven't really noticed him before. Also he shone in the paso with Rumer and Val. More Artem!

[LadyMustang65]

But once again, the point is, Val has gotten more than capable partners often and this isn't surprising because like I always say, it's an entertainment show at the end of the day and of course the producers don't want him leaving in the first week or two. But sometimes it's like it is unacceptable to say so because I guess the fact that he hasn't won 5 times makes it untrue. 

 

I would respectfully disagree with this.  Saying that Val has gotten "more than capable partners often" is simply a statement of fact without judgment or derision.  (It is also true of Derek as well and of Mark.)  I would be inclined to believe that you would get very little push-back on that.  But that's generally not what people say.  They say instead things like:  they handed him ringers until he finally managed to win.  They tend to be very judgmental-type statements implying that Val is incapable of winning without producer manipulation.  That's where the push-back comes from.  It's been said so many times - along with stuff like he only won because he kept "whining" about not winning - that anything that appears to even imply that Val - and by extension Rumer - is an undeserving winner tends to be met with push-back.  YMMV, of course.  :)

[crossover]

Dancing well doesn't mean staying power, but a strong fanbase does.  Exhibit one :  Noah Galloway he isn't a dancer, and he knows it, but he got middle America and the military behind him, even the First Lady tweeted her support.  Val's partners who didn't get far simply didn't have the fanbase to get there. But, in eight seasons being to the finale 4 times is nothing to sneeze at. 

This usually means they have a fanbase or captured one.

[skyways]

If having the so-called 'ringers' means having Mark, Derek or Val come up with interesting  and entertaining choreo, I 'm fine with that. Some waste the ringers they are given and have to be basically 'handed' a win like Maksim, Val's brother. Good dancers after good dancers were generally wasted on him ( Laila, Mel B, Brandy) until he began to be saddled with the difficult cases. Some know what to do except they are never given ringers because they are not exciting or creative enough as dancers (Tony Dovolani - the only two times he was given a ringer, he made the finals). Some are too old to be given ringers consistently even though they are creative and are charismatic dancers - Louis.

 So who's left, I ask you?? So I have no problem with the younger, energetic and charismatic guys getting preferential treatment because THEY DELIVER!!!!!

[Andiethewestie]

his usually means they have a fanbase or captured one.

 

Not really. Arguably there are those who make the top 3 on dance ability scores but still don't have the fanbase to take them further.  Chelsea Kane in season 12 , it was obvious that while she was a good dancer, she could never surpass Kirstie Alley or Hines Ward in votes. The show even gave her 15 points to knock Ralph Macchio out.  Or look at this season, Nastia was given immunity to keep her in the competition, unfortunately  it only took her to the semi finals.  I thought immunity should have went to Willow, but in hindsight Nastia needed it just as much. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[MortysCleaningLady]

Two random thoughts :

 

1:) I'm glad I'm not the only one who was puzzled by what seemed like domestic violence celebrated in the Hough sibling dance.  (That said, those two little kids were amazing.  Wish I'd seen something happier from them.)

 

2.) I'm thrilled with Rumor's win and thought she was the best dancer of the season, but I thought Riker was a strong performer.  Perhaps, if he had had a more ballroom partner (say Karina or Cheryl) and had worn costumes that were more flattering to his gangly Dick Van Dyke limbs (say normal pants instead of those skinny jeans that made him look kind of manorexic), could he have won?

[Andiethewestie]

Riker was never on my list to vote for, because he has dancesport experience in Latin, and it is not a surprise his best dances were all the latin ones,  Paso, Jive, Salsa,  His partner wasn't as good in those styles and was especially awkward in terms of dance style on the Samba. Interestingly the judges gave him the high score for a not very accomplished Samba.  Which begs the question, who was the teacher?   That's why I had a lot of difficulty with the scoring for him.  If he were given all contemporary or jazz styles that both he and his partner have extensive training in then he might have hoisted the mirrorball.  But, the standard dances, Foxtrot, Tango, Quickstep for me were all missed and overscored.  Dance position is key for the standard dances, and he had the worst form I've seen for a runner up.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[PBGamer89]

I know Janel tweeted her congrats to Rumer and Val, but I wonder how she really felt having introduced them (and maybe her to the idea of DWTS) and he won with Rumer instead of her.

 

It would've been like when Maks lost with Mel B and then the next season he had Ginger Spice and they won.

[iMonrey]

I think another big thing Rumer had going for her was the narrative that her upbringing was painful because she was in the public eye and people were writing nasty things about her being ugly and she had no self confidence, and being on the show built up her self confidence. We were sort of pummeled with reminders about internet posts calling her ugly for awhile there. Most of her talking heads were about how she'd never felt so supported or confident before. It was more or less a sob story.

 

What did Nastia have in comparison? Well, she won an Olympic gold medal and uh, yeah . . . that's about it. Not exactly as compelling a story. And I tend to think you get a lot more votes if viewers feel sorry for you than if you already seem to have it all. 

[Andiethewestie]

There is no question, Rumer was relatable.  That is huge for a young woman to connect with the audience, especially one that is an older demographic.  She could have easily been a target, lots of tatts, nose ring, black hair...spoiled bratt of famous parents, and sort of a counter culture kid, but for the first dance she was dressed perfectly, she looked like she was emerging from her lack of self confidence like a butterfly.  Of course she does have confidence, she has performed on stage and in film prior to the show, and yet she was able to convey that she came from a place of vulnerability and what better thing than dance to bring you out of your shell?  It was the perfect narrative combined with classic ballroom dancing and it worked for dance fans because I tend to think that dance fans have been hoping for classic dance for awhile. Kelly Osbourne had a similar narrative, but she wasn't the dancer that Rumer is. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Andiethewestie