S03.E23: My Name Is Oliver Queen

[olicityfan25]

It's actually inside. He got him on the side like how Ada's got Oliver on his side.

[AyChihuahua]

It wasn't intended to miss.  Not only does the sound effect make the squishy noise, that's the moment Oliver basically defeats him.  The whole thing was supposed to be a redo of the shirtless fight, with the sword grab, then stab in the side, then stab through the chest.  If the sword was meant to miss completely, why'd Ra's pretty much fold at that point?  Plus, Oliver got his sword through Ra's chest just fine, so there's no reason he couldn't have gotten it through his side.  It was an editing/filming screwup.

 

"It's actually inside. He got him on the side like how Ada's got Oliver on his side."

 

It wasn't inside.  You can see his entire sword outside Ra's body.  It was MEANT to be inside, which is why I said it was an editing/filming screwup.  It's an excellent indicator of how comparatively crappy the fight scenes are now.

 

Oh, and the fact that Oliver was able to stab Ra's must mean that, unlike Oliver, Ra's wasn't "wearing League armor."  League armor that can prevent serious injury from a sniper's rifle round, yet Diggle's handgun bullets just go right on through.

Edited May 21, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[arjumand]

It wasn't intended to miss.  Not only does the sound effect make the squishy noise, that's the moment Oliver basically defeats him.  The whole thing was supposed to be a redo of the shirtless fight, with the sword grab, then stab in the side, then stab through the chest.  If the sword was meant to miss completely, why'd Ra's pretty much fold at that point?  Plus, Oliver got his sword through Ra's chest just fine, so there's no reason he couldn't have gotten it through his side.  It was an editing/filming screwup.

 

"It's actually inside. He got him on the side like how Ada's got Oliver on his side."

 

It wasn't inside.  You can see his entire sword outside Ra's body.  It was MEANT to be inside, which is why I said it was an editing/filming screwup.  It's an excellent indicator of how comparatively crappy the fight scenes are now.

 

Oh, and the fact that Oliver was able to stab Ra's must mean that, unlike Oliver, Ra's wasn't "wearing League armor."  League armor that can prevent serious injury from a sniper's rifle round, yet Diggle's handgun bullets just go right on through.

 

Yeah, that "League armour" line just made my eyes roll. It reminded me of the "Thank God for fireworks smugglers" line from the first season of Lost, which was met with similar derision at the time.

I guess this was 'magical league armour', which only appears when the story demands it.

 

This is like I was saying - the 'rule of cool' dictates that Oliver should be shot twice in the chest, fall off the dam, and be rescued by Felicity. And I loved the last part, but not how they got there. What kind of armour can protect against a fricking sniper rifle? Why wouldn't a guy who has all the time in the world to aim through a scope go for a head-shot? And finally, the Chief of police authorizes a sniper to take out a guy who is miles away, who poses no immediate threat to anyone, who isn't a bomber, doesn't have an RPG, who is in fact holding a fucking sword? WHAT. Are we in Bizarro world?

 

Fine, you wanted Oliver shot. Why not ARGUS? We've spent a season watching Oliver being turned into a murderer for hire and a torturer by ARGUS. I still don't get why it had to be Oliver, but hey, I guess Waller had her reasons. She could just have been tying up loose ends. Lyla might have found out about it, got word to Diggle, and hey presto. Ugh.

 

Look, I'm not gonna go all scorched earth and say I hated the season - my ship becoming canon is reason enough to love it. And then there's Oliver in assassin garb, which while ideologically repugnant, would cause me to bang him like the proverbial screen door in a hurricane (not the wedding outfit tho; that was too much).

But I'm having as much trouble with these details as I did last season, when Oliver used Felicity as bait, and trusted a crazy man to not just kill her outright.

[Ang]

You know, I enjoy this show so much more because of this forum. As I was reading the thread, I found myself liking giddy shipper posts and profanity-laced diatribes alike. It is fabulous having such a variety of interesting perspectives and interpretations in one place.

I might have had a different reaction to the finale if I'd been able to watch it all in one piece (and maybe without my husband making fun of me for watching it) but put me in the "didn't quite do it for me" camp. I completely agree that some of the things they were going for were worthwhile (big moments, character arcs, what have you) but the execution in the episode itself was as poorly paced and executed as in the season overall. Malcolm as Ra's was a surprise, but a frustrating one. Felicity saving Oliver was pretty cute but the setup was so riddled with problems I was distracted thinking them over instead of enjoying the cute. It cracks me up that they combined bloodborne pathogens with airborne so we've got airbloodborne as a thing. I never really felt emotionally connected to any of the characters, and I needed at least a brief shot of O/F holding hands in the car (it would have been a nice callback to the beginnings of their relationship) in order for that to really hit home for me.

That said, I'm hopeful for next season! Damien Dahrk (too lazy to check spelling on a goofy name sorry not sorry) has potential, as does Thea as Speedy. I might be most excited to see if they do something fun with Diggle. I'm hoping against hope that they do some character development for Felicity that ties into the main plot, rather than just a one-off. And I'm really hoping this means we're working into Oliver as Green Arrow with the wisecracking and laughing that I've seen from pages of comics shared online here and there. SA could be really appealing in that role; despite the sweet kicked puppy dog eyes and pretty pretty face, he doesn't do that much for me, and I think it's in part because the character's been so humorless.

I like this show so much more in theory than in execution, but there are bits here and there I can work with. I almost have to translate it into a comic book, then back into a mental movie so I can fix the problems and fill the gaps how I want to, but I'm thinking it might still be worth it. I am seriously mentally muting MG, though. Nope nope nope. Makes it too hard to fangirl properly when I'm feeling embarrassed that TIIC truly are rather dumb.

ETA: They blew up Ray! That was hysterical. I can't picture Felicity not hearing about it or leaving town

Edited May 22, 2015 by Ang

[AyChihuahua]

You know, I enjoy this show so much more because of this forum. As I was reading the thread, I found myself liking giddy shipper posts and profanity-laced diatribes alike. It is fabulous having such a variety of interesting perspectives and interpretations in one place.

I might have had a different reaction to the finale if I'd been able to watch it all in one piece (and maybe without my husband making fun of me for watching it) but put me in the "didn't quite do it for me" camp. I completely agree that some of the things they were going for were worthwhile (big moments, character arcs, what have you) but the execution in the episode itself was as poorly paced and executed as in the season overall. Malcolm as Ra's was a surprise, but a frustrating one. Felicity saving Oliver was pretty cute but the setup was so riddled with problems I was distracted thinking them over instead of enjoying the cute. It cracks me up that they combined bloodborne pathogens with airborne so we've got airbloodborne as a thing. I never really felt emotionally connected to any of the characters, and I needed at least a brief shot of O/F holding hands in the car (it would have been a nice callback to the beginnings of their relationship) in order for that to really hit home for me.

For me, as an episode of television it was pretty terrible.  Weird lines, weird character stuff, absolutely terrible pacing, the DD stuff that was pointless except as a setup for next season, Oliver's terribly stupid plans, tons of stupid simply for the sake of surprise, really weak stunts.  I also personally hated the final scene, simply because I think those two have a shitload of stuff to work out, so it struck me as really weak to have them drive off into the sunset like everything's totally groovy (IRL they'd prob use that time to talk, but since we'll never experience that onscreen, AFAIC it didn't happen).  HOWEVER, it was a relatively optimistic ending to an unbearably miserable season, so I've actually watched it several times, simply because, unlike the rest of the season, it didn't make me think Guggie is conspiring with Big Pharma to cause a national epidemic of severe depression.

[Password]

I guess they were worried casual viewers really would think this was the end of the show.

This is so funny. My friend in the UK who is a casual viewer actually asked me if that's the series end.

Hahaha then she said "at least he and Felicity are together".

[arjumand]

Another thing occurred to me about the scene which I found much too talky - the "remember what you said to me in Nanda Parbat" scene (when I'm being really mean, I call it Arrow's "Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo" scene. I think there's something about mentioning the actual place where something happened makes it an especially bad line? I dunno).

It's just, the expression on Oliver's face suggests to me that the only thing going through his mind is this:

 

 

 

And possibly: I didn't know there would be a test. I didn't study.

Plus, the very next thing she says is what Oliver says at the beginning of every. single. episode. I can't believe a writer actually got paid for that scene. I think it irritates me so much because I'm trying to drool over Oliver in the LoA outfit, and mentally pushing Felicity to sit in his lap, and instead she's burbling on and on. While he's just smiling and thinking how adorable she is.

Edited May 25, 2015 by arjumand

[calliope1975]

Oh, yeah, I'd bet money Oliver's mind went straight to whatever X rated things were said that night. 

 

I had my own laugh during Felicity's speech because my friend HATES the "become something else" line, and I knew it would drive her nuts to hear Felicity say it. 

[ohjoy]

I had my own laugh during Felicity's speech because my friend HATES the "become something else" line, and I knew it would drive her nuts to hear Felicity say it.

I have to agree with her. I loved the line as part the standard intro for years, but the moment they started mucking around and sticking different versions of it and implied references to it within the show itself they ruined the line for me. Putting words in Felicity's mouth to give Oliver a lightbulb moment was kind of the last straw.

[arjumand]

Oh, yeah, I'd bet money Oliver's mind went straight to whatever X rated things were said that night. 

 

I had my own laugh during Felicity's speech because my friend HATES the "become something else" line, and I knew it would drive her nuts to hear Felicity say it. 

 

I'm pretty sure this was EBR's very own "You can type this shit but you sure can't say it" moment.

[BkWurm1]

It wasn't inside.  You can see his entire sword outside Ra's body.  It was MEANT to be inside, which is why I said it was an editing/filming screwup.  It's an excellent indicator of how comparatively crappy the fight scenes are now.

 

I guess I'm not seeing what others are seeing in that picture on the last page.  I see the sword, but you don't see the entire length.  It goes into his side and then comes out.  About six inches is "buried" in Ra's.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I guess I'm not seeing what others are seeing in that picture on the last page.  I see the sword, but you don't see the entire length.  It goes into his side and then comes out.  About six inches is "buried" in Ra's.

That is Oliver's hand.  He's holding the blade with one hand and the hilt with the other.  It's not inside Ra's at all.  You can see the tip of the sword, then Oliver's hand, then the base of the sword.  Not one inch of the sword is inside Ra's guts (where the whole thing should be).

Edited May 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[BkWurm1]

That is Oliver's hand.  He's holding the blade with one hand and the hilt with the other.  It's not inside Ra's at all.  You can see the tip of the sword, then Oliver's hand, then the base of the sword.  Not one inch of the sword is inside Ra's guts (where the whole thing should be).

Ah, you are right.  I went back to my DVR and slow mo'd it.  It doesn't even rip his jacket.  At the most he might have gotten a bit of chaffing as Oliver ran it along his side.  He does at least hit him in the throat first and then when Ra's was distracted by the vicious case of rug burn along his side, he gets all stabbied, lol.

 

The must have thought the shoot was dark enough to cover the shot.  I missed it the first time around and in the still shots.  Tsk, Tsk. 

 

On a tangent about the fight, something that I enjoyed about it but no one has brought up to my knowledge.  I loved that Ra's did most of the fight with one hand behind his back. When they were in each other's faces he used both hands  but a majority of the time he wouldn't let himself use it.   I don't think Oliver won because he was suddenly so much better but because Ra's was soooo sure of himself that he added another degree of difficulty to what he was doing. It's a lot harder to maintain balance fighting that way I assume. The hand behind the back thing meant that when Oliver punched him in the throat and then grabbed the sword hilt, Ra's  had to was time pulling out from behind his back (which he wastes anyway since he clutched at his neck rather than hold onto his sword. )  

[arjumand]

Ah, you are right.  I went back to my DVR and slow mo'd it.  It doesn't even rip his jacket.  At the most he might have gotten a bit of chaffing as Oliver ran it along his side.  He does at least hit him in the throat first and then when Ra's was distracted by the vicious case of rug burn along his side, he gets all stabbied, lol.

 

The must have thought the shoot was dark enough to cover the shot.  I missed it the first time around and in the still shots.  Tsk, Tsk. 

 

 

Re. the darkness of the shoot - I was reading an old review of the Season 1 finale the other day, and the reviewer was complaining that at some points they couldn't tell Malcolm and Oliver apart because it was so dark. And I was like, really? Really? One was in green, and the other was in black with all sorts of fancy studs and buckles! Watch the Season 3 finale and come back to me, pal!

 

And then, relying on the dark to cover that mistake, that's some bad form. That wasn't a random bad guy fight, that was the season ender, FFS. Did they honestly think that fans wouldn't watch it over and over again (I know that as someone with ladyparts, I'm supposed to go for all the relationship bullshit, but I actually skip all that and go to the fights. And the sex. sorrynotsorry), and spot it - and actually, I only needed to watch it once to spot that. What's the matter, the budget was drained by the terrible CGI plane and they ran out of money for reshoots?

 

The fight itself isn't bad, just that they handicapped it with lots of extraneous shit - it's dark, they're dressed almost the same, we keep having a lot of wide shots, and finally, so many interruptions. The fact that it was modelled on the fight in The Climb just makes us compare them, and find this one inferior.

 

I know that it wouldn't have worked to have them bare-chested here too, but, for example, they could have cut out half of Felicity's speech (I've found reviews of the episode which said it was amazing - the part where she says "fight to live", that was amazing. The bit where she says "You told me you would have to become . . . else", that was crap. And not like any human being speaks to another, ever. It worked for Oliver because it was a voice over), and have her presenting Oliver with the Arrow jacket and hood, which she'd rescued, somehow, because the one Roy was wearing was in no way Oliver's. Oliver's actual jacket would have fitted two Roys.

She offers it to him, he looks at it, unsure, and she says, "One last time, Oliver. Let the Arrow defeat R'as al Ghul." And that would have been amazing because, you know, Arrow is the fricking title of the fricking show. But no. They were fricking married to the idea of the student defeating the master, which I would say they'd made up, but it's obviously Star Wars inspired. Ugh. Which is why Oliver had to defeat R'as wearing assassin gear. Oh, I forgot. League armour, right, right. Just, whatever.

 

You know, I don't dislike this season as much as others do - I'm handwaving Oliver's boneheaded decisions by making the entire season a result of his trauma following his mother's violent death. His father's suicide affected him for five years and more - I'll give him a year of stupidity following him not being able to stop his mother being murdered in front of him (though none of that explains the incredibly stupid Felicity/Ray storyline). However, I expected them to pull their shit together in the finale.

[apinknightmare]

I think that they wanted the shock value of Oliver getting shot by SCPD and they wanted the symbolic value of Oliver besting Ra's in the exact fight they had before Oliver's death in 3x09. So, they sacrificed the silliness of that cut along Ra's side so that they could have both, since Oliver and Ra's couldn't be shirtless in this duel because they needed Oliver to have his "armor" on so he could survive the gunshots, and explaining how and why Felicity or anyone would've managed to get Roy's Arrow suit out of containment would've taken up time they didn't have. Plus, I can only imagine the criticism Felicity would've gotten for trying to rescue a suit while a virus was being spread throughout the city when people were already criticizing her for, you know, not wanting Oliver to die after Quentin called her to warn her about it, haha.

Edited June 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[arjumand]

I think that they wanted the shock value of Oliver getting shot by SCPD and they wanted the symbolic value of Oliver besting Ra's in the exact fight they had before Oliver's death in 3x09. So, they sacrificed the silliness of that cut along Ra's side so that they could have both, since Oliver and Ra's couldn't be shirtless in this duel because they needed Oliver to have his "armor" on so he could survive the gunshots, and explaining how and why Felicity or anyone would've managed to get Roy's Arrow suit out of containment would've taken up time they didn't have. Plus, I can only imagine the criticism Felicity would've gotten for trying to rescue a suit while a virus was being spread throughout the city when people were already criticizing her for, you know, not wanting Oliver to die after Quentin called her to warn her about it, haha.

 

I hope I didn't imply I wanted her to rescue the suit during the finale - in my head, it was something she had rescued immediately after the arrest, or after Roy's "death", and kept safe in hope that Oliver would be able to retrieve it one day. It wouldn't have been any more contrived than Oliver magically having League armour on, and that this league armour would be able to withstand shells fired from a high velocity sniper rifle, and that the sniper would not go for a headshot. But hey, what do I know.

[apinknightmare]

I hope I didn't imply I wanted her to rescue the suit during the finale - in my head, it was something she had rescued immediately after the arrest, or after Roy's "death", and kept safe in hope that Oliver would be able to retrieve it one day. It wouldn't have been any more contrived than Oliver magically having League armour on, and that this league armour would be able to withstand shells fired from a high velocity sniper rifle, and that the sniper would not go for a headshot. But hey, what do I know.

 

You didn't imply anything either way, I get what you're saying. I understand why they didn't have Oliver wearing his old suit since Felicity told him before he went off to fight that he wasn't that guy anymore, that he was different now (followed by Oliver saying he didn't want to be that guy anymore, that he was someone new). 

 

The sniper probably didn't go for a headshot because he works for the SCPD and it seems like ineptitude is a standard qualifying trait for those guys. 

Edited June 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[arjumand]

The sniper probably didn't go for a headshot because he works for the SCPD and it seems like ineptitude is a standard qualifying trait for those guys. 

 

LOL, so right about that.

 

I guess I'm still pissed off about the League armour, which was, to me, an unforgivable ass-pull. I mean, Felicity wearing the ATOM suit? Fine, she worked on it as much as Ray did (more?). But league armour? That's like Lost's fireworks smugglers, or a B movie I once watched in which the characters were cornered and suddenly remembered the abseiling classes they'd taken the previous summer.

[tarotx]

I can imagine that Ra's spent time finding a unique armour that gave the league their safety and the mystic appeal. He's into romance and myths. I can even believe that there is weak spots in the armour. What I didn't like was the look of the side sword swipe. And for a bit Oliver and Ra's were like in a bubble. They were moving slow and acting like there was no outside threats.

[apinknightmare]

There weren't any outside threats as far as they knew, were there? I think they thought they were fighting on an empty, under construction bridge - I don't think they knew the SCPD was watching. They were far away, weren't they? I can't remember.

[tarotx]

It's not really Oliver and Ra's that were the issue but the production people. The audience knew the Police were there and I just think the cops letting the fight finish to even allow Oliver's prayer just thew me out if the moment. I kept thinking about that threat.

There weren't any outside threats as far as they knew, were there? I think they thought they were fighting on an empty, under construction bridge - I don't think they knew the SCPD was watching. They were far away, weren't they? I can't remember.

[AyChihuahua]

BkWurm, I flat-out LOLd at the "mild chafing" Ra's might have felt from the big first thrust!

 

I noticed that issue on my actual live watch, which is very rare for me.  I LOVE fight and stunt scenes and have been so incredibly disappointed in S3's fight scenes.

 

I don't know why Oliver would have worn that outfit at all.  I would think he would loathe it and want to get it off as quickly as possible.  That would make the fight scene easier to follow, and he could wear anything he wanted, really.  I guess that would kill their big "shot by SCPD that politely waited for the victor to be determined" moment, but they could have had him in bulletproof something he'd gotten from Cisco when he toddled off to Central City in the middle of his wedding in NP.  That reception must have been one hell of a party for the groom not to be missed for like 24 hours.

 

Also, I truly enjoy that "League armor" protects against high-powered sniper rifles, but doesn't protect all the assassins shot by Digg and Malcolm in NP, and apparently doesn't protect against sword thrusts, since Oliver's sword went right through Ra's outfit for the big final heart thrust.  So very, very dumb.

[EmeraldArcher]

BkWurm, I flat-out LOLd at the "mild chafing" Ra's might have felt from the big first thrust!

I noticed that issue on my actual live watch, which is very rare for me. I LOVE fight and stunt scenes and have been so incredibly disappointed in S3's fight scenes.

I, too, LOVE fight and stunt scenes and share your disappointment with S3. It started great--the Vertigo-induced Arrow vs. Oliver Queen fight in "The Calm" was a gritty brawl complete with an impressive roundhouse kick. It was awesome. The rest of the fights, especially those including Black Canary were awful--the heroes mostly twirled in circles while the bad guys fell down. Seriously, there didn't seem to be any fight choreography besides twirling--I think Oliver hit more bad guys by swinging his bow than he did by shooting arrows at them. Ugh. There was a very obvious decline this season.

I was disappointed by the Oliver-Ra's fight on the dam. Up thread, someone mentioned how it mirrored the mountain fight a la student-defeats-the-master, but I still didn't like it. It just emphasized Oliver as Ra's 2.0, which isn't very satisfactory when we waited all season for Oliver to resolve his identity crisis. Having him use Ra's moves seemed cheap because Oliver had always displayed his own brand of strategy and tactical awareness--I wanted to see Oliver win because he was Oliver, not the Demon's mini me.

As much as I agree that the sniper shots made no sense whatsoever, I'm very glad that they happened if only so that Felicity could swoop in and save Oliver.

[kismet]

I generally love the stunts as well. And I felt this season was weaker overall, despite a couple good fights here & there. The last one of dam was not one of the better ones. Choreography was not that strong and the editing & shot choices I found distracting.

Honestly I think it came down to budget. Shooting arrows are generally CGI & that money went to the ATOM suit most likely. Also SA likes to do more hands on stunts, so maybe they tried to cater to the few actors on the show that actually do a lot of their own fight work.

[AudienceofOne]

I, too, LOVE fight and stunt scenes and share your disappointment with S3

 

 

It started in S2. In season 1, Oliver could take out 20 guys on his own and the fight scenes were fantastic. Now he gets defeated constantly by, like, three people even with an entire team backing him up (well, an entire team and Laurel). Basically, to propel the plot they've made him and everyone else increasingly impotent and the fight scenes have suffered as a result.

[AyChihuahua]

I really liked the scene in S2 where he goes into Malcolm's tenement to get Walter.  He kicked all kinds of ass in that scene.  Oh, and S1 when he parkours all over the mansion to kill that assassin going after the kid.  A LOT of the parkouring/fighting (fightkouring?) was SA, which was fricking awesome. 

 

For me it's not only the fights but the overall stunts that have gotten weak.  It's like they focus on (like everything with Guggie) making it look "cool," but they've totally lost how awesome straightforward stunts and fight scenes are when they look realistic. I'll take Oliver just punching/kicking/jumping while seeing SA's face any day over motorcycle jousting.  Just riding a motorcycle really well is plenty, like when he went after the Dodger.  You would think the final showdown bw the season's big bad and the hero would have been a focus, but they just totally blew it.

[tarotx]

I think some of it's The coolness factor but imo a lot of S3's fights were more character and plot symbolism as well as finding ways to deal with making newbie fighters win believably. They were using the action on characters who should have been training instead of in the field. As well as having the fights show what the characters should have been talking about with each other to discover.

So yeah the fights were also affected in the "for the sake of Plot"ness that controlled s3. Imo.

Edited June 16, 2015 by tarotx

[olicityfan25]

I loved the scene getting Walter back. I feel like that scene was taken by Daredevil.

[arjumand]

I loved the scene getting Walter back. I feel like that scene was taken by Daredevil.

Actually, both scenes were inspired by a famous Korean movie, Oldboy, and this scene in particular:

 

 

I love how they interpret it differently each time.

[tv echo]

I don't think this was commented on yet... at the end of this episode, during Oliver's voice-over, when he's putting away his bow & arrow and the rest of his Arrow gear, he's wearing gloves - like the kind you wear to prevent leaving fingerprints.  That was a nice touch, but I wonder if it has any significance (other than a surprising attention to detail).

Edited June 17, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I don't think this was commented on yet... at the end of this episode, during Oliver's voice-over, when he's putting away his bow & arrow and the rest of his Arrow gear, he's wearing gloves - like the kind you wear to prevent leaving fingerprints.  That was a nice touch, but I wonder if it has any significance (other than a surprising attention to detail).

 

In a surprising show of competency, it was an SCPD officer putting the Arrow's stuff into evidence, not Oliver. :)

[tv echo]

Oh thanks... I missed that.  I just listened to the voiceover and assumed it was Oliver.  Too bad about that great crossbow.

Edited June 17, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Was it his LoA gear that he was putting away?

 

We also have remember this is the show where costume fingerless gloves for style purposes takes precedence over common sense don't leave fingerprints behind.... so it might mean nothing.  Then again, But perhaps the props & continuity depts have more sense than some other depts & people....

[morakot]

The conversation between the Lances about Quentin's renewed drinking reminded me of a quibble that has bothered me ever since Laurel joined AA. Why do neither of the Lances consult their AA sponsors or even mention their existence? It would have been appropriate for Laurel to mention it here -- and she would not have to get herself into a position of lecturing and making him wrong.

 

Of course, a sponsor would have advised someone in the early stages of sobriety that she should avoid making drastic changes in her life -- becoming a vigilante, for example. That would affect the larger plot...

[statsgirl]

Also not starting a new relationship in the first year.... that would can a majority of the consequent plots for recovering addicts on aTV,

 

Quentin is now five? years sober.  Would he still be in contact with his sponsor?  Would Laurel have known who his sponsor is?

[Carrie Ann]

I don't think we know exactly when QL got sober, but my ex was still regularly going to meetings and talking to his sponsor when he was 12 years sober. Eventually you may become a sponsor yourself, but I don't think you ever stop having a sponsor because you're never done with the program. Laurel may not have known who his sponsor was (though...not for any reason of anonymity, because they apparently went to meetings together and most sponsors are out about their recovery, etc.), but yeah, this is just a writing error, to never bring this up. And ITA with @morakot that the writers botched Laurel's addiction/recovery story in general, because major life changes PLUS replacing an addiction with another high-adrenaline, high-risk behavior would be no-no's. But, it's TV recovery, so here we are.

[BkWurm1]

Maybe Laurel decided she didn't need sponsor and was going to do it on her own.  Like Jimmy Olsen got better all on his own.   Like you said, TV recovery.  That award for portraying addiction still irks me. 

[dmmetler]

I guess they were worried casual viewers really would think this was the end of the show.

FWIW, I'm watching on Netflix, and I wondered if maybe they wrote the finale assuming it would be the end of the show. They've set up Ray for his transformation to shrinking Atom, Felicity and Oliver are riding off in the sunset, Sterling city is in the hands of Thea, Laurel and Dig, and we've got a big bad in Malcolm set up for Atom, Flash, and the duo of Nyssa and Tatsu/Katana to take on (I SO want Nyssa and Tatsu to ally with each other. Although that might be more awesome than one TV can stand...).

[kismet]

The writers have said that they wrote the first three seasons as a trilogy. So in some way it was written as a final installment for that part of the story.

[Mellowyellow]

I re watched this again today.  Omg I love it soooooo! The look Oliver gives Felicity after she saves him in the Atom suit. And by gosh she's soooooooooo bloody adorable in that suit!!!! Cutest little thing ever!!!!!! And he looks at her like she's the cutest thing he's ever seen.

Oh why couldn't it just have ended here.  Why why whyyyyyyyyyyyyy????????

*settles and smacks herself*

Yes I do love my season 3!

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Oh why couldn't it just have ended here.  Why why whyyyyyyyyyyyyy????????

I was pretty happy with what we got from 4-1 to 4-7, skip 4-8, and then end it right as Olicity gets in the limo.  THE END!!  Lol.  

[tv echo]

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – DELETED SCENE: While on the plane with Ra’s al Ghul, headed to Starling City, Oliver has a dream that turns into a nightmare:
(Oliver & Felicity are in a convertible, with Oliver driving, along a road.)
Oliver: "Can I say something strange?"
Felicity: "Oh, as opposed to the hundreds of things I've said to you over the past three years?"
Oliver: "I'm happy."
Felicity: "I bet you haven't said that in a long time."
Oliver: "I don't think that I've ever said that. I - my mouth had difficulty forming the words to say it."
Felicity: "Well, you'll get better with practice. You deserve it. You're Al Sah-him."
(Oliver wakes up. He's in a cargo plane with Ra's al Ghul.)
*  *  *
(This next part is in the script but not in the deleted scene.)
Ra's: "You were asleep."
Oliver: "I was dreaming."
Ra's: "Ibn Sirin once wrote there are three types of dreams: ones about truth; ones about desire; and ones about temptation. What did you dream of?"
Oliver: "Rebirth... As Ra's al Ghul."

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Malcolm reveals Oliver’s ruse to the team, who escape from Nanda Parbat with the help of Barry Allen AKA The Flash:
(Diggle, Felicity, Ray, Laurel and Malcolm slowly regain consciousness, coughing and gasping.)
Ray: “Not that I'm complaining, but shouldn't we be dead by now?”
Felicity: “Oliver tried to kill us.”
Malcolm: “Ra's tried. Oliver was forced to let him appear to be successful.”
Diggle: “So now we're back to trust Oliver, and while we're at it, trust you, too?”
Laurel: “Yeah, because the last time I checked, you tried to make a deal with Ra's to save yourself.”
Malcolm: “In order for our plan to work, Ra's trust in Oliver had to be complete. And after that plane fiasco, it wasn't. Oliver needed to demonstrate one more time his loyalty to Ra's.”
Ray: “Which I guess brings us back to - why aren't we dead? Not that I'm complaining.”
Malcolm: “Oliver was vaccinated against the Alpha Omega virus five years ago. An associate was able to draw a version of the vaccine from his blood.”
Ray: “A synthetic skin graft.”
Malcolm: “Upon our incarceration, I was able to vaccinate each one of you cutaneously. I saved your lives. I believe the words you're searching for are ‘thank’ and ‘you.’" 
Felicity: “Okay. Assuming this is all some part of a brilliant double double cross or triple cross - I'm losing count - your master plan still has one major flaw, since we're still chained in a dungeon.”
Malcolm: “Patience, Miss Smoak. All we have to do is wait.”
Laurel: “Wait for what?”
(Thunder sounds.)
Malcolm: “The thunder.”
(Cut to corridor where two guards are escorting a hand-cuffed Tatsu.)
Guard: “Keep walking.”
Tatsu: “It's time.” 
(A wind blows through and the guards disappear. The Flash super speeds and ties up all the guards.)
Barry: “All right. (Sees the Lazarus Pit) You guys have a hot tub? Nice. (Zips to the dungeon) Hi, you guys! Wow! I mean, this is like a real dungeon!”
Felicity: “Barry!”
Barry: “Thank you, Felicity. You just outed my secret identity to a super villain. No offense.”
Malcolm: “None taken. Now get us out of here!”
Barry: “All right, uh, stand back.” (Super vibrates the barred door) 
(The team enters the League's armory room.)
Diggle: “Excellent. How many assassins, do you figure?”
Barry: “Uh, none. They're all taking a little nappy time.”
Felicity: “Thank you. And not to be greedy, but we could really use your help on this whole Starling City super virus thing.”
Barry: “And you know I would, but I am overdue for a very pointed conversation with Harrison Wells. I'm sure Oliver's got this.”
Diggle: “I wouldn't count on it.”
Laurel: “Oliver hasn't been very forthcoming with his plans lately.”
Barry: “Well, I don't know what's been going on with him lately, apart from a recent wardrobe change, but one thing that hasn't changed is, he needs you guys. Even if he doesn't think so. Good luck.” (Flashes out)
Diggle: “I'll never get used to that.”
Ray: “Well, there goes our ride home. John?”
Malcolm: “The plane we came in is still secure, but we need to get to it quickly. Come on.”
Laurel: “Tatsu. Let's go, we're leaving.”
Tatsu: “I left a life of solitude because Oliver asked it of me. It's time to return to it.”

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Oliver tries to explain his actions to Diggle and Felicity:
(Ray, Malcolm, Laurel, Diggle and Felicity return to the Arrowcave.)
Malcolm: “We don't have much time.”
Laurel: “For what? I thought you said Oliver had a plan.”
Malcolm: “Yeah, and in the event that it doesn't work, he has a backup - us. John, let's determine the status of our arsenal. Laurel, go to your father. Start mobilizing the police. Mr. Palmer, I need you to find something that will neutralize an airborne contagion. Miss Smoak, let's find out where our League of Assassin friends might be. (No one moves) I'm sorry. Did I mumble?”
Diggle: “We follow his lead. For now.”
(Alarm goes off.)
Ray: “Ah, guys, I set up a proximity alarm to detect an unauthorized entry to this level. It's going off like crazy.”
(Oliver and Nyssa drop down into the Arrowcave. Nyssa has an arrow drawn.)
Oliver: “Nyssa. John –“
Diggle (punching Oliver): “You son of a bitch!”
(Nyssa draws an arrow again, but Oliver nudges her arm down.)
Oliver: “It’s alright, it’s alright.”
Ray: “Ah, maybe we should give these guys the room.” (He, Laurel, Nyssa and Malcolm leave)
Felicity: “Nyssa looks happy. You two on your honeymoon?”
Diggle: “What the hell's going on, Oliver? Start talking!”
Oliver: “The reason that I have kept Malcolm close for the past several months is because he had critical intel on our enemy. He knows Ra's. He knows the League. And he knew that if I was appointed his successor, that meant Starling City was marked for death. The only way that we were going to defeat the League was from the inside. I had to get close enough to Ra's to find out how he was going to destroy the city… and stop him.”
Diggle: “You trusted Malcolm Merlyn more than you did the two people closest to you!”
Oliver: “John, it wasn't about trust! It was about making sure that you… (Turns to Felicity) and you… were safe. I had to keep the circle as small as possible.” 
Felicity: “How did you expect to repair all this after you got back?” 
Oliver: “I didn't. I flew with Ra's and the virus to Starling and I sabotaged the plane. The plan was to kill Ra's and destroy the virus. It didn't work.” 
Felicity: “How did you expect to survive the plane crash? ... You didn't. You never expected to have this conversation. You were planning on dying. So that was your big plan? Sacrificing yourself to take out Ra's?” 
Oliver: “It was the only way. At least now it didn't work, I get a chance to tell both of you how sorry I am.” 
Diggle: “Sorry won't cut it, Oliver. Not this time. But we have bigger problems than hurt feelings and broken trusts.” 
Oliver: “Laurel needs to contact her father. Ray needs a way to counteract the virus. I'm sure Malcolm told you we don't have a lot of time.” 

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – The team tries to find Ra’s al Ghul:
Oliver: “What'd you find?”
Nyssa: “My father isn't using any of the League's ordinary redoubts in the city.”
Malcolm: “If Ra's is here with the virus, why hasn't he used it yet?”
Oliver (to Felicity): “Where are we?”
Felicity: “Nowhere. Ra's is old school. Every way I have of finding him is new school.”
Diggle: “Oliver, maybe we need to change the way we're looking for him. If we're trying to find a sub that's gone dark, we should look for what's out of the ordinary in the water.”
Oliver: “So we look for what's unusual and maybe that points us to how or where Ra's plans to release the virus.”
Felicity: “Traffic lights were down for 20 minutes at Adams and O'Neil. All computers at Starling National Bank are offline. The entire top floor of the Essex Hotel is closed. There's an electrical spike at 52nd and Robson.”
Malcolm: “Wait, go back. The top floor of the Essex is closed.”
Nyssa: “My father doesn't frequent hotels.”
Felicity: “According to internal emails, the floor was shut down for a 'Damien Darhk.' A name like that has to be an alias.”
Oliver: “Damien Darhk is in Starling City?”
Nyssa: “My father's most bitter enemy.”
Oliver: “That's why Ra's hasn't released the virus. He wants to use it to kill Damien Darhk. This was never just about my ascension. Ra's wants to take out his nemesis.”
Diggle: “Looks like you weren't the only one with a hidden agenda.”
Oliver: “This can work for us. Ra's wants Damien. So we give him Damien.”
Malcolm: “We trade Damien for the virus. That is remarkably ruthless and cold-blooded. I approve.”

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – The team discovers that Ra’s plans to release the biovirus in four locations in Starling City:
Felicity: “John, Malcolm, and Nyssa are on their way back. What happened with Darhk?”
Oliver: “He was gone. Man that I found was a cut-out. Ra's plans to release the virus at four points across the city.”
Ray: “I worked out a containment system that can safely neutralize the virus, if we can get our hands on it.”
Oliver: “Well, we need four of them, and a way to spread the inoculant if this gets out of control.”
Felicity: “I scrubbed through all the information that Malcolm gave us on the Hong Kong attack five years ago. The Alpha Omega virus gave off a low level emission from its RNA, almost like radiation.”
Ray: “If you can hack the keyhole hexagon satellite, you can tune the quadband to search for it… which you've been doing for the last five minutes.”
Oliver: “We need probable locations where he would release the virus as soon as you can get them.”
Felicity: “Mm-hmm.”

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Oliver tells Felicity about his recurring dream, and Felicity tells Oliver to fight to live:
Felicity: “I know I said I would never, ever bring you coffee again, but the city facing a bioweapon attack seemed like a valid exception. So your plan to take out Ra's by dying… We should talk about that.”
Oliver: "Every night since the mountain, I've had the same dream. You are pleading with me not to go face Ra's, and I listen to you. Sometimes the dream still ends badly - I end up with this sword in my chest. But… most of the time, we escape. And we're just driving. And all this seems - it seems so far away, because it's just - it's the two of us." 
Felicity: "I know you think that that's not possible, that you dead and Ra's dead is the only realistic, best case scenario." 
Oliver: “Felicity, I can't defeat Ra's al Ghul."  
Felicity: "Oliver Queen can't. The Arrow can't. Both those men tried, and both those men failed. You remember what you said to me during our night together in Nanda Parbat? You're no longer either of those men. You've become someone else. Become something else.  (Puts hand on his chest, over his heart) This is different now. Because, despite your best efforts, you've allowed yourself to feel something. I know you think that that's a weakness. It's not. It's your key… to beating Ra's. Don't fight to die. Fight to live." 
(Cell phone beeps.)
Felicity: “Satellite trace is back. I've got four locations.”
Oliver: “Okay, let's go. Felicity… thank you.”

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – The team spreads out all over the city to intercept and stop the four bioweapon couriers; and Oliver fights Ra’s al Ghul once again:
Quentin: “I need all units. I need ESU, all squad cars converging on these four locations. We got a potential bioweapons attack.”
Oliver (over comms): “I'm onsite.”
Laurel (over comms): “Onsite.”
Malcolm (over comms): “Onsite.”
Diggle (over comms): “I'm onsite, but I have no idea what I should be looking for around here.”
Felicity (over comms): “Do you see anyone in a League of Assassins outfit? That would be a dead giveaway.”
(Oliver is confronted by a League goon.)
League Goon: “I have no weapons. And I have no virus. Ra's al Ghul awaits you on the Starling City Dam. He wishes to be in your presence as your city dies.”
Oliver: “And what makes him think that I won't just stay focused on saving my city?”
League Goon: “Because he knows of your deluded belief that you can defeat him in battle. And you know that as long as the Demon's Head lives, he will continue to threaten your home.”
Diggle (over comms): “Okay, I got a runner carrying a metal briefcase.”
Felicity (over comms): “The bioweapon is going to be in the briefcase. Okay, I'm scrubbing footage from traffic and surveillance cameras at the remaining three locations."
(Diggle chases down courier, but courier gets the drop on him.  Thea in red suit shoots arrows into courier.)
Thea: “Don't… move.”
Diggle: “Nice threads.”
Thea: “Thanks.”
Diggle (over comms): “Felicity, the briefcase is empty. It's empty! (To courier) Where's the virus? Where's the virus?! … He is the weapon. Ra's is using his own men to disperse the virus!”
Courier: “And we will not be stopped. The will of Ra's al Ghul is our own!” (Slits his own throat)
Diggle: “No, no, no, no, no, no, no!”
(Cut to top of Starling City Dam.)
Ra's: “I knew you couldn't resist. The man who survives the sword of Ra's al Ghul shall become Ra's al Ghul.”
Oliver: “So you brought me here to kill you?”
Ra’s: “Either way, I am victorious. You either ascend to Ra's as I have designed, or you will die. And the last thing you will ever see is your beloved city succumbing to disease and death.”
Diggle: “Go! Go, go, go, go, go, go! Get back! Go! Go, run! (People are running and screaming) Go, go, go, go, go! Get back, go, go, go, go, go, go! Back! (To Thea) You got to get out of here!”
Thea: “Malcolm inoculated me.”
Woman on TV: “Starling City appears to be in the throes of a biological attack.”
Felicity (over comms): “Outbreak at Nelson Plaza. It's bad. It looks like the virus spreads when infected blood is exposed to open air.”
Laurel (over comms): “Even if we find Ra's men, how are we supposed to stop them from spreading the virus?”
Felicity (over comms): “Really bad temporary solution - get them off the streets in a secured place as possible and do not let them cut themselves.”
Laurel (to Nyssa): “Wait. You're not inoculated.”
Nyssa: “This is my father's doing. I will see it undone.”
Ra’s (to Oliver): “You choose a sword that has already defeated you in battle.” 
(Oliver and Ra’s fight with swords atop the dam.)
Malcolm (over comms): “Miss Smoak, I've taken out one of Ra's' men.”
Felicity (over comms): “Don't take chances. Put that body some place airtight, and try not to kill anyone else, while you're at it! (To Ray) The virus is spreading. Can you replicate the inoculant?”
Ray: “That is the easy part. The hard part is disseminating it over a three block radius.”
Felicity: “Your nanotech. Can you make them airborne?”
Ray: “That is what I'm trying to do.”
(Laurel fights and defeats one courier.)
Nyssa: “I have been a most excellent trainer.”
Laurel: “We need to get this guy somewhere he can't infect anyone.”
Quentin: “What the hell's going on here? We're in the middle of a city-wide crisis. I don't have time for this.”
Cop: “We've got two suspects up on the dam. Don't know why they're fighting each other, but the chief says they're responsible for what's happening. He's ordered me to take them out as soon as I have a clean shot.”
(Oliver and Ra’s continue to fight.)
Ra’s: “Something has changed within you, boy. Your will to live burns brighter, and yet you rejected my offer of eternal life.”
Oliver: “What you were offering wasn't living!”
Ra’s: “Power serves you no interest. You'd rather love.”
Oliver: “A man who condemns his daughter to death wouldn't understand.”
(Felicity’s cell phone rings.)
Felicity (answering phone): “Detective - Captain?”
Quentin (on phone): “We got a problem.”
Felicity: “You're going to have to be a lot more specific.”
Quentin (on phone): “I'm pretty sure your boy is at the Starling City Dam, and I got officers not listening to me getting ready to shoot him. Now, despite what I think about your guy, I don't want to see him killed while I think he is trying to save the city. But unless you order up a miracle pretty quick, that's exactly what's going to happen.”
Diggle (over comms): “Got number four.”
Felicity (over comms): “Hold on a second, John. We have a new problem. (To Ray) Hey, you have to get to Starling City Dam. You have to fly.”
Ray: “I'm still uploading the operating code to the nanotech. And I'm still rewriting on the fly. I - I can't leave the station. Why?”
Felicity: “Oliver's in trouble. He needs your help.”
Ray: “Felicity, if I can't get the nanotech to disperse the inoculant, thousands of people in this city will die.”
Felicity: “What? No! Ray, Oliver!”
Ray: “It's one life against the city's. What would Oliver do?”
(Ra’s gets Oliver down on his knees and points his sword at Oliver’s chest.)
Ra’s: “Unlike you, thousands of honorable men will mourn my death when I leave this earth.”
Oliver: “No. (Stands up, gets sword and does fancy maneuver to stab Ra’s) They will kneel before the next Ra's al Ghul.” (Speaks Arabic) 
Ra’s (dying): “I knew I chose well with you, boy.”
(Oliver is shot by cops, and he falls over the side of the dam.)

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Felicity dons the Atom suit and saves Oliver from falling to his death over the dam:
Felicity: “If I could figure out how to get this thing off, I’d be kissing you right now.” 
(Oliver and Felicity smile at each other.)

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Oliver thanks his team of heroes and asks Felicity to leave Starling City with him:
Woman on TV: “The casualty count would have been much higher if not for an airborne inoculant that rumors credit Palmer Technologies with developing. Although the unknown -”
Nyssa: “You killed my father.”
Oliver: “I had to.”
Nyssa: “I wanted to be the one. You're lucky you're still alive. You wouldn't be had you not been wearing League armor.”
Felicity (coming up): “I like to think I had a little something to do with that.”
Oliver (to the others): “When I started this, I wanted to keep you away from it as far as possible, because that has always been my instinct - to go it alone. But the truth is that we won tonight because I wasn't alone. I thought that this crusade would only end with my death. But even if I had died tonight, it would live on because of you.” (To Laurel)
Oliver: “And you.” (To Ray)
Oliver: “Oh, and you. (To Thea)
Laurel: “It’s true. This city isn't lacking masks.”
Oliver: “Heroes. Which is why I no longer need to be one.” 
Felicity: “What are you saying?” 
Oliver (to Felicity): “Ra's took the Arrow identity from me. I couldn't be that person even if I wanted to be. And I don't want to be. I told you that I couldn't be the Arrow and be with you. I want to be with you. You told me that I have become someone else, and I would like to... maybe discover a little more about that person. If you come with me.” 
Thea: “With you where?” 
Oliver: “Um... someplace far away from here. Even without me, Starling still has heroes to watch it.” 
(Felicity smiles at him. Diggle leaves the room.)
Felicity: “John –“
Oliver: “I'll talk to him.” (Leaves)
Ray: “Wow.”
Felicity: “Yeah. That's the word I've been saying over and over in my head.”
Ray: “So, does that mean I'm going to have to find a new Vice President?”
Felicity: “I think so. I hope that you find someone who makes you happy, Ray. You deserve that.”
(Cut to elevator lobby.)
Oliver: “John?”
Diggle: “I'm happy for you, Oliver. Despite our issues, you deserve to be happy. You and Felicity. And you're right, the city's in good hands.”
Oliver: “Including yours.”
Diggle: “I'm no superhero.”
Oliver: “You're a hero. For three years, you've been a rock. The city's rock, my rock. For three years, you have been the person I can count on. I'm still counting on you.”
Diggle: “Oliver, I don't know if I can get past what happened between the two of us.”
Oliver: “I'm not asking you to.”
Diggle: “I'll think on it.”
Oliver: “Okay. (Elevator dings) John.  If you're going to keep going, you may want to find a way to conceal your identity when you're out there.”
Diggle: “I'll think on that, too. You be well, Oliver.”
Oliver: “You, too.”

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Oliver and Felicity leave the city and drive off into the sunset together (as aired):
Oliver (voiceover): “My name is Oliver Queen. After five years in hell, I returned home with only one goal - to save my city. And I did. I became a hero who helped people. But now it is time for me to be someone else. It is time for me to be… something else.”
(Felicity and Oliver are in a Porsche, driving down a road away from Starling City, into the sunset.)
Felicity: “So, where are we going? I'm thinking a state that can annul a Nanda Parbat marriage.”
Oliver (smiling): “Can I say something strange?"
(Felicity looks at him.)
Oliver: "I'm happy.”

323 (My Name Is Oliver Queen) – Oliver and Felicity leave the city and drive off into the sunset together (as scripted):
Felicity: “So, where are we headed? I'm thinking a state that can annul a Nanda Parbat marriage..."
Oliver: “Can I say something strange?"
Felicity: "As opposed to the hundreds of things that I've said to you over the past three years?"
Oliver (grinning): "I'm happy."

Edited February 23, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Season 1 of Vixen, a six-part animated web series, premiered on The CW Seed in 2015, sometime during Season 3 of Arrow...

Vixen 104 - Felicity makes a phone cameo in this animated series:
Oliver (on phone): "Felicity, you there?"
Felicity (on phone): "Just me and my fern - or, your fern. Though, let's be honest, I'm the one who waters it."
Barry: "Tell her I said 'hi'."
Felicity: "Hi, Barry!"
Oliver: "Mari McCabe, I need to know if she was in Central City the night of December 11, 2013."
Felicity: "Miss McCabe was in Detroit the night of the particle accelerator explosion - at least her credit card was at the Big Belly Burger. She has a thing for their Iceberg Shake."
Oliver: "She wasn't in Central City."
Barry: "That's not possible. What we've seen her do is not possible."
Oliver: "A lot of people would say what you do is impossible."

Vixen 106 - Oliver finds out that Barry kissed Felicity:
Mari: "I thought I was supposed to have a cool name or something."
Barry: "You think 'the Arrow' is cool?"
Oliver: "Keep talking, 'Flash'."
Barry: "If it helps, Cisco's been calling you 'Vixen' - Not that Cisco is the name of anyone affiliated with me. He's not. I mean, if there was a Cisco affiliated with me - which there isn't."
Oliver: "Were you and Felicity separated at birth?"
Barry: "I hope not.  Because if we had been, that kiss would've been weird."
Oliver: "You kissed her?"
Barry: "You know what?  I gotta run."

Edited February 23, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

323 deleted scene...

Edited May 2, 2020 by tv echo

[lemotomato]