Minority Report - General Discussion

[tomatoflyer]

I don't like how the tech is a part of the team now - her and Vega watching a screen for half the episode did not seem like a 2-person job even with that lame information gathering.

Dash is just so single-minded compared to the other precogs, I find watching him boring because I know exactly how he's going to react, and what he's going to do. Good acting with bad writing does not make a satisfactory performance.

Oh well, 6 episodes to go.

[Free]

Blindspot bored me to death and Quantico is just a bad "who's done it" mystery that has barely any character development outside shock value and a Marie Sue for a lead.

 

Oh definitely between the dull Blandspot whose mysteries have been uninteresting or Quantico's full out stupidity with Miss Perfect.

[jhlipton]

I do think an episode misstep was Lara seemingly let Dash slide on the Freddie/Ricki escape.  No, she didn't murder the rich kid, but she still shot him.  She should have been in handcuffs right along with him.  But alas, Dash Jr was apparently making the decisions in this episode. 

 

We also don't know for sure whether she shot up Matt or just guilted him into an OD.  Either is worse that what Cayman did with Allison.  It's too bad because she and Dash were fun together -- I would have liked to see her as part of the show.

 

I'm going to miss this show when it's gone.

Edited October 14, 2015 by jhlipton

[tanita]

Me too. And Quntico got the full 22, while this got downsized. This I feel had some potential. I watch a bazillion other shows, but most are in their 2nd/3rd/5th/8th/11th seasons or so. This was this year's newbie that I really liked. Just like "Forever" last year.

[tennisgurl]

Huh. It hit me that I will actually be sad if this show gets cancelled. Looks like its growing on me. 

 

I liked this one, it was nice to have the procedural stuff be more character driven. I can see a woman falling for Dash`s awkwardness. Even if that girl turns out to be pretty murderous. 

 

The chemistry between the characters seems to be working pretty well, growing as the show goes on. I`ll be here until the lights turn off.  

[ribboninthesky1]

We also don't know for sure whether she shot up Matt or just guilted him into an OD.  Either is worse that what Cayman did with Allison.  It's too bad because she and Dash were fun together -- I would have liked to see her as part of the show.

 

You make a good point about Matt. I'd forgotten about that.  But I had limited empathy for Fredi, mostly because it felt like she was using Dash. Their connection felt rushed to me.    

 

In truth, I thought there would be a twist to her story - I initially thought that it was HER who was left for dead, took on a different name, and came back for revenge. Of which I was a lot more sympathetic to.   

 

I'm going to miss this show when it's gone.

 

 

Right there with you. 

[jhlipton]

The other way this is a switch-up on the usual procedural is that, with the exception of the first episode and possibly the embezzler, there are no dead people at the end of each episode.  I like that twist.

[Free]

The other way this is a switch-up on the usual procedural is that, with the exception of the first episode and possibly the embezzler, there are no dead people at the end of each episode.  I like that twist.

 

They brought back the 'changing the future' aspect from the film so it actually felt different from the previous procedural cases aspect.

[ketchuplover]

It's being replaced by a show about clairvoyant plumbers called 'Preclogs"

[formerlyfreedom]

After Dash and Vega realize that Vega is the victim in Dash’s latest vision, they team up with someone who played a key role in the murder of Vega’s father many years ago. Meanwhile, Arthur digs further into his and his siblings’ memories.

[Netfoot]

"Narcissist incoming!" Heh!

 

At least it seems we can now dispense with the wearing of the light-pipe hat and all the facial distortions.  Ooops!  Spoke too soon.

[thuganomics85]

I don't know if it was the lighting or something, but I thought Reed Diamond looked way older here, then he normally does.  And I only just saw him on Wayward Pines, so unless he suddenly aged these past few months, then I don't know what the hell was going on.

 

Surprised that they already had one of the crimes be associated with Vega already, but I did think it led to me being more invested in the case then normal, and interested in the outcome.  Her dad's shooter being a former junkie and was actually hired by a drug dealer (who was approach by someone else), wasn't too surprising, but I guess that goes with the territory.  No way where they going to have her dad's death not be a major arc this season (or show, if it was going to last past these final episodes.)  Either way, I enjoyed it and felt for Vega, even if I'll admit that Meagan Good isn't the best actress, but she does have her moments.

 

I like them incorporating more humorous with Dash, like him with the flowers for Vega's birthday.  I think it was better once they brought this side of him, and he wasn't so dour the entire time.

 

Arthur deciding to help was interesting.  I wonder what Agatha will think if she ever finds out.

Edited October 20, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Free]

Surprised that they already had one of the crimes be associated with Vega already

 

I guess, I figured it would happen sooner rather than later, but I thought they would save it for later into the season.

[miracole]

I liked this episode however I do feel that Vega would be perfectly fine with putting Dash back in a milk bath and bringing pre-crime back. Would have liked her to show a bit more compassion or any about how horrible it was for them to be treated like lab rats. She was just really upset that their earlier findings weren't released.

I like when Dash and Arthur interact.

[ribboninthesky1]

When Vega found out that the machine used to extract beta Pre-Crime memories would be even more painful, she didn't want to proceed.  Dash was the one who wanted to do it anyway.  Vega seems compassionate enough to me.  It's been ten years, I think.  I appreciate that she doesn't coddle Dash about it.  

 

I liked this episode.  More scenes with Vega and her family.  The final scene between her and her mom was really sad, though I felt for Vega most of the episode.  

 

The twist on the woman/drug addict being the murderer was one I didn't see coming. Though, the fact that she took the dad's watch makes no sense if she was paid to kill him. You murder a cop, and you take a memento? I guess.   

 

This was the first episode I didn't find Arthur some version of dull or annoying, but that has a lot to do with the fact that he helped Vega. He even made me chuckle when Vega thanked them, Dash responded, "Anytime," and he retorted, "Never again."  Ha! Strangely enough, when Zano is opposite Good, he comes across a helluva lot more natural than when he's opposite Sands or Laura Regan.  Also, I liked that he wasn't warm and fuzzy with Wally.  I've been a wee bit disturbed with the show's perspective on that character.        

 

Alfred deciding to help was interesting.  I wonder what Agatha will think if she ever finds out.

 

 

 

I first read this, and wondered, "What did I miss? Was there a Gotham crossover moment?" 

 

I understand why the show centers on the pre-cogs, but I wouldn't really miss Arthur or Agatha if the show gave me more Akeela, Lara, and Dash interaction. Even Valderrama as Blake was tolerable. 

[Netfoot]

Arthur deciding to help was interesting.  I wonder what Agatha will think if she ever finds out.

 

It's Agatha you're talking about.  She knew before Arthur did!

[topanga]

 No way where they going to have her dad's death not be a major arc this season (or show, if it was going to last past these final episodes.)  Either way, I enjoyed it and felt for Vega, even if I'll admit that Meagan Good isn't the best actress, but she does have her moments.inds out.

I feel the same way. I'm liking the show so far, and I like Vega as a character, and I've seen almost every movie Megan good has been part of. She's not a horrible actress, but she doesn't have a lot of range. And while I could feel her sadness over her father's death and her concern for Dash's safety, her emotions seem stunted in a way. Maybe it's because she only has two facial expressions: stoic or "Who farted?" Even when she got tearful while watching the flashbacks of her father's death, she looked like she was smelling a bad fart that was causing her to tear up. 

 

Maybe I'm being so hard on Megan Good because Vega's style (deliberately or coincidentally) is totally channeling Nicole Beharie. But she's almost a parody. The super-tight clothes, the skimpy tank tops, and even her hair cut is similar. And while Nicole conveys all kinds of emotion in her face without saying a word, Megan only has the who farted-face. 

 

And in regards to your first point, I sure hope they don't continue to drag out the story line of her father's death. Is Vega now going to be looking for the drug dealers who set up the hit? On Castle, the writers drug out the story of Beckett's mother for several seasons, which drove me batty. I never cared much about her mother or her mother's death. In fact, I began to hate her mother because of this unending tale. 

[Lebanna]

I loved the part where Vega tells the secret security guy that she's heard a rumor that the Precogs were secretly predicting crimes for a year before they were made public, and Mr. Secret goes ' The existence of Beta Precrime WAS top secret and if the public found out the government had been predicting murders they never stopped...'

So all you have to do with this guy to find out top secret information is to randomly mention a weird rumour of a conspiracy you've heard, and he'll just straight out confirm it and then silently beg you, if you don't mind, not to mention it to anyone else.

The writing on this show is just so lazy and horrible.

[tomatoflyer]

I found MG's acting atrocious this episode, the facial distortions, the overacting, the attempts at vulnerability - it was all kinda embarrassing.

I like Dash best in humour scenes, he seems so lifeless otherwise. It seriously bothered me how easily Vega agreed to torture Dash and Arthur. It was actually disturbing for me that after a brief second she was all in.

Since this show is basically dead, I'm okay with Vega being the case of the week, but not if it means I have to see MG act emotions.

[jhlipton]

On Castle, the writers drug out the story of Beckett's mother for several seasons, which drove me batty. I never cared much about her mother or her mother's death. In fact, I began to hate her mother because of this unending tale. 

 

I was hoping that Vega's dad was shot by a junkie, end of story.  I would have preferred it over the usual "vast conspiracy" which is still going on on Castle.  Now thaqt we have this story, I think rhe head of the Vast Conspiracy should be played by the woman who played Beckett's mom.  Just to bring balance to the universe.

[RCharter]

http://deadline.com/2015/10/minority-report-order-cut-fox-cancelation-1201572471/

Effectively canceled.

I almost feel like this thread should be renamed "Minority Report in the Media: You're in the Minority if You're Actually Watching this Show!"

[Free]

I would have preferred it over the usual "vast conspiracy" which is still going on on Castle.

 

I hate those storylines, because more often than not, the writers can't handle those kinds of plots.

[ribboninthesky1]

I was hoping that Vega's dad was shot by a junkie, end of story.  

 

Agreed. It occurred to me later to ask aloud, "What fool would actually mug a cop in uniform?"  At least if it was the junkie high out of her mind, the absurdity would make some sense.  Taking the watch to sell it later for her next high would make some sense.  The junkie was told to make it look like a mugging, but that's completely nonsensical. No one would mug a cop in uniform.  Then to take and KEEP the watch for some 17 years? I hope she was arrested.

 

I think Good hit the emotional beats just fine, and the writing was pretty straight-forward until the end, where it veered off into narrative convolution. 

[Netfoot]

Then to take and KEEP the watch for some 17 years? 

 

Junkie takes watch and doesn't immediately convert it into dope?

 

Junkie keeps watch for many years, where?  In the attic of their mansion?

 

Junkie reforms and puts watch on public display to hasten their own apprehension for murder?

 

Story-line papered very thin in this area...

[Bort]

I was hoping that Vega's dad was shot by a junkie, end of story. I would have preferred it over the usual "vast conspiracy" which is still going on on Castle.

I only just watched the episode last night but when the killer revealed that someone had hired her I was all, oh no not the Beckett's mom storyline!

Now I'm kind of glad this show seemingly has a short shelf life, I don't think I could handle this conspiracy again.

[ribboninthesky1]

Junkie takes watch and doesn't immediately convert it into dope?

 

Junkie keeps watch for many years, where?  In the attic of their mansion?

 

Junkie reforms and puts watch on public display to hasten their own apprehension for murder?

 

Story-line papered very thin in this area...

 

Ha! I can sort of fanwank that the reformed junkie kept it as a reminder of the dark place she was in. But nah, that still doesn't work for me.  If Vega's father was just some private citizen, maybe.  But I can't imagine keeping evidence that you were directly involved with a COP'S murder, only to put it on public display later.  Just...wha??? As others have stated - former junkie shoots cop while high and steals his watch to sell later is a perfectly poignant and sad revelation to the mystery. I don't watch Castle, and I still thought, "Da hell, show?" towards the end.     

[Greta]

I could sort of see if the killer (Dana? Dena?) had kept the watch because becoming a murderer was rock bottom for her and started her crawling towards redemption.  The whole thing might have worked better if instead of cases of the week, the focus of the show was on the aftermath of Precrime on not just the precogs but the precriminals who got caught and other criminals and how they're dealt with in this future.  Then this secret past reveal for the advocate for reform/rehabilitation would have added more. As it is, I'll be really annoyed if DaddyVega is somehow connected to the DIA's secret plans because it's okay for not every single character to have a past connection to the central mythology.

 

I also found the DIA director interesting.  The perspective that enslaving three lives to a milk bath is an acceptable sacrifice to save thousands from terrorist attacks certainly isn't right or moral, but it's not depraved evil for the sake of evil either.

 

Also, I think I ship Vega and Arthur; they have sexual tension that I just don't see in the otherwise fine dynamic between Vega and Dash. Yep, I find a ship on a soon to be cancelled show, because of course I do.

[Amelie06]

Ok, I know the show isn't going to last long enough to develop this, but doesn't it seem increasingly more likely that Agatha is the true villain of the show? That woman has the demeanor of serial killer who is toying with her victims and everyone is her victim. But that just seems to be how she talks and just her face. Even when she was ostensibly merely letting Arthur know about her concerns, she still seemed like a creep. I remember that satisfied smirk she had as she got Tom Cruise's cousin killed in the last episode. They were probably planning on her turning bad in season 2.

 

I do like Arthur and Vega together. Dash is just bland with everyone. This is the best acting I've seen out of Nick Zano.

 

I don't like the styling of Megan Good on this show. Those painted on eyebrows are terrible and that wig they've stuck on her head is not the most flattering. She's always and forever a beautiful woman, this style just isn't working for me.

[waving feather]

Ok, I know the show isn't going to last long enough to develop this, but doesn't it seem increasingly more likely that Agatha is the true villain of the show? That woman has the demeanor of serial killer who is toying with her victims and everyone is her victim. But that just seems to be how she talks and just her face. Even when she was ostensibly merely letting Arthur know about her concerns, she still seemed like a creep. I remember that satisfied smirk she had as she got Tom Cruise's cousin killed in the last episode.

 

I agree with every sentence, but that's why I like her so much. She's so cold, calculating and interesting. I do wonder if she's the BIG BAD and she wants them in the milk bath again; her mind warped from the trauma. Nevertheless, I like all three siblings and wish the show revolves around their characters more instead of the Police precinct.

 

It's not easy to get into the character of Vega because Megan overacts so much. She's easily the weakest actor of the bunch.

 

That DIA Officer was lame. Didn't he detect HUGE red flags when Vega kept going on about Precrime and asking probing questions? It's not nice to treat Dash and Arthur as lab rats, but what was worse is how she basically gave away to the DIA Officer and Blake that there's something fishy going on with her, when Dash specifically told her to be careful about revealing info. Agatha may be evil, but she's right in not trusting Vega, 'cause Vega is just asking to be investigated by the DIA.

[ribboninthesky1]

I mentioned this in a previous thread, but it's tough for me to feel sorry for the pre-cogs.  If Vega had openly pursued Dash and coerced him to help her, maybe.  But Dash decided to risk outing himself (and the others) by:

 

1) coming back to the city,

2) approaching a cop, and

3) working with Vega and ultimately working for the precinct.  

 

Dash is not a child - none of them are.  Yes, what happened to them was awful, but they're making their own decisions as adults now.  None of what they're doing or not doing is on Vega because she's not coercing them into anything. DASH was the one who brought up beta Pre-Crime - he could have kept it to himself, and Vega wouldn't have known the difference.   

 

If Dash wanted to remain anonymous, he shouldn't have approached a cop to begin with. That's a lot of reason Agatha annoys me - even if Vega can't be trusted - DASH was the one who exposed them.  It's not like Vega hunted them down and forced them into the open. 

 

Also, Vega doesn't use or design the equipment to extract the information from the pre-cogs' minds.  At least Wally designed the bracelet that warns Dash of the visions, but I don't get how he hasn't figured out a way to extract what Dash sees in a less painful way.  

Edited October 23, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[krimimimi]

Dash is not a child - none of them are.  Yes, what happened to them was awful, but they're making their own decisions as adults now.  None of what they're doing or not doing is on Vega because she's not coercing them into anything. DASH was the one who brought up beta Pre-Crime - he could have kept it to himself, and Vega wouldn't have known the difference.   

 

If Dash wanted to remain anonymous, he shouldn't have approached a cop to begin with. That's a lot of reason Agatha annoys me - even if Vega can't be trusted - DASH was the one who exposed them.  It's not like Vega hunted them down and forced them into the open. 

 

Also, Vega doesn't use or design the equipment to extract the information from the pre-cogs' minds.  At least Wally designed the bracelet that warns Dash of the visions, but I don't get how he hasn't figured out a way to extract what Dash sees in a less painful way.  

 

You're not wrong. But. (Heh.) No, really, the precogs were denied a childhood, and it's unclear how their development was nurtured after they were released from the milkbath. While their minds were young and impressionable, they were stuck seeing the worst of humanity over and over, and didn't have the defense of "it's only make-believe" - they knew it was real. They weren't given attention or comfort. Only the very most basic of their needs were met. I doubt any of them are remotely where or as they should be developmentally, and in fact it's a recipe for sociopathy. (Or to the extent that you can create a perfect environment to create a breeding ground for a sociopath, that would pretty much be it.) I thought it was nice that they addressed that after Dash had to kill someone. And I think that gives Vega more responsibility (for me) than Dash in managing the situation. He's too much of a puppy trying to please her.

 

It also helps explain the remarkable coldness and occasional aggression of Arthur and Agatha. As far as where Agatha places the blame, I'd expect all three to have attachment issues (which Dash is working hard to surmount), serious problems letting new people into their lives, and an us vs them mentality. She's not pleased with Dash, but she's a lot more down on Vega.

 

As to technology, there are days when I'm just happy when the PC boots, so I don't expect Wally to be able to produce something just because it's situationally convenient. Convenient for the plot is another story... Natch.

[Pointer]

 

No, really, the precogs were denied a childhood, and it's unclear how their development was nurtured after they were released from the milkbath.

 

 

This.

 

We know that the boys were preemies raised in an incubator, placed in the foster care system, relocated to a clinic and tested for their abilities from the age of nine, put in the "Milk Bath" - pretty much put into a permanent coma - from age 14 to 20. Then they were placed on that island for (in Dash's case) ten years.

 

The only people in Dash's life are the medical personnel that performed tests on him, his siblings and Wally. We know from the pilot that he hadn't seen Wally for a substancial amount of time before he sought him out to visualize his visions - possibly the whole decade he spent on the island.

 

Dash is a guy in his early 30s with the social/emotional maturity of a severely damaged teenager, who spent the first half of his formative years in a coma and the second half in near complete isolation.

 

Vega is the first person he meets and he latches onto her like a barnacle. He overestimates his own social abilities and inter-personal intuition (remember how absolutely certain he was the killer-Fredi was a grade A person?), has issues with impulse control and absolute blind, childlike trust in Vega, regardless of her at times abrasive behavior towards him.

 

We know from the Fredi-episode that he's in a constant, hightened state of mental anguish (hard to say with writing like on this show, but I'd wager that it would qualify as a full-blown anxiety disorder), unable to compartmentalize and put aside his traumatic past as soon as he's alone. Which he pretty much is whenever he's not with Vega, because as he himself said, there is nobody else in his life he can share his "burden" with. He avoids rest/sleep and rather endangers his own life (following her to the house where she's supposed to get killed) and health (probing his brain for the memories of her father's murder) than jeopardize the connection with her, lest he lose his value to her (the guy who will let her see murders before they happen) and she frees herself of the burden he is on her life and job.

 

Vega herself has a metric ton of childhood/family trauma-related issues that impair her interpersonal skills and self-control, as has been impressively demonstrated in the last episode.

 

 

That right there are all the hallmarks for mutual codependency and/or a potentially abusive relationship, even when we ignore the constant, clunky hints from the writers that they are both blind to the fact that they might just be in love with each other, which would further complicate things.

 

 

A guy with a history like Dash (minus the whole precognition nonsense) could apply for legal guardianship in most (western) European countries and would very likely see it granted.

 

I don't see how we can assume that Dash is even remotely prepared to make sound, adult decisions regarding his own future (much less take into account that of Vega, Akeela, or even Wally for that matter) in a situation with ramifications as complex as the whole "working as an illegal precog to fight crime with a trained cop" shebang.

 

He is neither a student of law nor a police officer - he never held any job whatsoever, nor has he had a chance to observe role models like parents/guardians master their lives with that kind of responsibility.

 

No way in heck is his partnership with Vega - their entire relationship, really - one of equals, or even one of two adults. The fact that he's the least able of anyone in the show to realize that doesn't make it any less true.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Pointer

[krimimimi]

^^^ Perfect. Precisely. And exactly the reason I'd like to see the series continue, because I think there's a lot of promise there. There's a lot of dark potential there, but that doesn't mean it's without hope. Thank you for delving into Dash and Vega's psyches and delineating them so clearly.

[Lebanna]

Oh wow, Pointer. I so wish you were running this show.

[Pointer]

There is potential in spades in the concept of this series, but nothing will ever come of it when the best the writers manage to do is stare at the first meta level of "you are the master of your own fate - your acting on a 'vision' is what sets it in motion in the first place' in incomprehensive wonderment, open a tab on tvtropes.com and pick the one with the least amount of SAT words to build next week's episode around.

[Pointer]

 

Oh wow, Pointer. I so wish you were running this show.

 

Cheers, Lebanna! I'm pretty sure that if, say, just the people on this board would get a chance to pitch a joint one or two pages worth of feedback to the writers for each episode script, we'd end up with a substantially more interesting show.

 

I don't know why they shirk away from adressing more complex concepts.

 

There is a very interesting 45 minute podcast on the show every week, called "the precrime report" which you can find here: http://noisysnailstudios.com/minorityreport/ It is basically three dudes who seems to be pretty cerebral sci-fi fans, who regularily touch on a host of interesting concepts the show can/could/should explore, usually ending with their predictions on what they think are the underlying motives and what is going to happen next on the show, and week after week they are grossly overestimating the amount of thought/reflection/worldbuilding the writers put into what transpires on the screen. You can hear them "dumb down" and get more and more dejected and pedestrian with their predictions with every episode and they still end up being "smarter" than what the show offers us.

 

 

An off the top of my hat basic idea for a full-season arch for a hypothetical season 2 in thirty seconds:

 

precogs are saved from the milkbath and everyone is happy by episode 10, Dash realizes he loves Vega and wants to do something about it, finds her with Arthur. This betrayal by the two most important people in his life breaks him, he wants nothing to do with either of themat this point. He wants to leave it all behind and be his own person for the first time in his life, but before he manages to leave town, he happens to run into Fredi, who seeks him out to help her ditch the people who are hunting her (private detectives and/or the police) for trying to kill her sister's killer. Bingo, here's this other girl he likes, and she needs his help, what could possibly go wrong? They shack up together and Fredi, being the budget-Dexter she is, manages to convince him that the criminal justice system is inherently corrupt and self-serving and the only way to bring killers to justice is taking justice into their own hands. Dash, who felt nothing when he killed a prospective killer to protect Vega in episode 1, is all for it - especially the "all cops are ba$tards" part, because screw Vega using him "only for her own means". So we got a Rogue Precog/Vigilante Killer-team taking justice in their own hands whenever Dash has a vision, while on the other side, there is Arthur and Vega who are racing against time, trying to rein in an out-of-control Dash they both still care about before the police can catch him and Fredi for the very real crimes they are committing, without drawing any attention to themselves and trying the throw the authorities off the scent of Dash/Fredi. Brother against brother, Dash with his better gift (visions instead of just names) and Arthur mostly with his underworld connections, thoroughly dirtying the already "grey" cop Vega in the process.Blake/Big Government are starting to suspect that the precogs have started meddling with society unsupervised and are now coming for them in earnest since the executive power belongs exclusively with the government, not a bunch of developmentally stunted psychics and their various friends. Over the course of the season, Fredi becomes more and more unhinged/intoxicated by her newfound ability to preemptively avenge victims by killing prospective killers while Dash realizes that he's maneuvered himself and everyone he ever remotely cared about as well as the world at large into a complete ethical quagmire and must figure out how to make things right again with the least amount of catastrophic fallout for all involved. Cue  Dash learning painful lessons and becoming a responsible adult. In the end, Agatha somehow saves the day/holds the key to bringing everyone back together. The Vega/Arthur/Dash misunderstanding clears up and in the end, everyone once again unites to keep the precogs out of the clutches of the governtment, who've at this point absolutely had it with the shenanigans of their erstwhile misfit toys.

 

 

I know it's bull - but at least it is marginally more original and slightly more different from every other police procedural on television compared to what we've been served so far.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Pointer

[krimimimi]

I'd like to see Agatha's attempts to get info on the milkbath 2.0 contribute to the precogs' risk, but for the apparent blame to fall at Vega's feet. Dash should feel betrayed, but a substantial part of that will be projecting his dissatisfaction with himself for poor judgement and denial thereof. Agatha should probably rub it in some adding to Dash's emotional stew, because she's not exactly warm and cuddly, while the viewers remain frustrated that her meddling is triggering this. Plus erroneous Vega blaming should render her more sympathetic to the viewing audience. (A lot of us (of the few who watch) don't seem to be buying what she's selling.) Arthur and Vega seem probable (and have more chemistry). I also think Arthur talks a cynical game, but that he'd be better able to forgive Vega than Dash because Arthur's more realistic, so again increased likelihood there.

Then your suggestions above work well for me, up to the reconciliation between the brothers at which point I'd really enjoy Agatha emerging as the next big sorta bad, because I think she is a very elegant monster. I wouldn't even mind if she were instrumental in their reconciliation, only to arrive at a different conclusion of best path forward from there, or possibly with a divergent assessment of Dash's behavior as the cause of the rift, where once again Arthur finds it easier to forgive. (The way Arthur jumped in this week leads me to believe he has it in him.) It would be a nice chance to show that the twins may be weaker in terms of precognitive abilities, but ultimately they have each other in a fundamental way that can provide a mutual support and resultant stabilty that she lacks. I'd also like an illustration of the results caused by the differences in age at time of initial experimentation contrasted with the inherent social support system twins have, reflected perhaps in their greater ability to form bonds with others in the present (future) day vs. Agatha's severe reactive attachment disorder.

Cue the season long chase and ultimate redemption arc when the three are forced to come together to battle a renewed threat of milkbathing now that the Hawkeye system has been improved sufficiently to more accurately target them.

But I gather we'll be lucky to get a few more eps. :-(

[Greta]

 

 

That DIA Officer was lame. Didn't he detect HUGE red flags when Vega kept going on about Precrime and asking probing questions? It's not nice to treat Dash and Arthur as lab rats, but what was worse is how she basically gave away to the DIA Officer and Blake that there's something fishy going on with her, when Dash specifically told her to be careful about revealing info. Agatha may be evil, but she's right in not trusting Vega, 'cause Vega is just asking to be investigated by the DIA.

I wondered if he and Blake already know what's up or at least part of it and are deliberately tossing out breadcrumbs to get Vega to lead the precogs to them because they can't just grab them for....reasons. And I got suspicious that Wally just happened to have an expensive piece of complex tech lying around that the PreCrime organization just let him have.  (My office gets fussy when someone wants to take home a bookcase that's already designated to be thrown out.) Maybe he's been compromised or has been playing a long game for years; I loved that Arthur was not all warm and huggy with Wally and that he didn't soften at all in that attitude. I may be too optimistic about the writing though.

 

I would so watch the scenario laid out above by brilliant posters.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Greta

[ribboninthesky1]

Eh, never mind. Too wordy. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[krimimimi]

Eh, never mind. Too wordy.

Maybe, but a roughly 99% text based forum without words would be kinda... lacking. ;-)

C'mon ribboninthesky, join in the fun.

Also, thanks @Greta

Edited October 24, 2015 by krimimimi

[jhlipton]

al, but it's not depraved evil for the sake of evil either..

 

Have you read the short-story (sort of) Those Who Walk Away From Omelas by Ursala K LeGuin?  It deals with this sort of moral quandry.

 

I know it's bull - but at least it is marginally more original and slightly more different from every other police procedural on television compared to what we've been served so far.

 

It's... intriguing, but I think it goes against what we know of the characters so far.  I don't think Dash would be complacent with killing would be killers,(and would Wally help them? That's a chunk missing from your plot-line), and Fredi only seemed interested in avenging her sister.  Moreover, I really dislike the "all a mistake" plotlines.

 

We see what Dash sees in his visions... how does Agatha know what she knows?  Why does she need Arthur or Dash -- she seems to know everything, and not just about murder, well in advance.  She's much more powerful than the other two, even combined -- she would make a worthy big bad.

[formerlyfreedom]

Arthur and Dash team up to help a young girl in poor health whom they fear is the victim they see in their next vision. Although modern technology could save her, the community in which she lives prohibits the use of such equipment. When Vega and Agatha jump into the case, everyone must work together.

 

 

[waving feather]

I have a feeling somewhere down the line, it would be Agatha versus the twin brothers.

And something the DIA agent said about using the recogs for national security instead of for the random murders reminds me of Person of Interest with the irrelevants.

Edited October 24, 2015 by waving feather

[ribboninthesky1]

Maybe, but a roughly 99% text based forum without words would be kinda... lacking. ;-)

C'mon ribboninthesky, join in the fun.

Also, thanks @Greta

 

Cliff Notes version: Based on what I've seen to date, I don't perceive the precogs, Dash included, are written with the severe level of social, psychological, and emotional damage that's been described by others. Thus, that colors my perception of Dash, his level of agency, and accountability for his decisions and behavior. Same for Arthur and Agatha.      

[Pointer]

It's... intriguing, but I think it goes against what we know of the characters so far.  I don't think Dash would be complacent with killing would be killers,(and would Wally help them? That's a chunk missing from your plot-line), and Fredi only seemed interested in avenging her sister.  Moreover, I really dislike the "all a mistake" plotlines.

 

We see what Dash sees in his visions... how does Agatha know what she knows?  Why does she need Arthur or Dash -- she seems to know everything, and not just about murder, well in advance.  She's much more powerful than the other two, even combined -- she would make a worthy big bad.

 

 

really, that was never intended to be an actual shot at what I would want to turn a hypothetical 2nd season into - as I said, just a 30 second riff on an initial idea of where I think they'll end up after episode 10 (crisis averted and Vega and Dash about to declare their undying love for each other) that would take the series away from plodding along the exact same path as the previous season - murder-of-the-week with hackneyed Big Threat to the precogs/the world as the long plot - with the same character dynamics and general modus operandi: Dash and Vega investigating (with the help of Wally/Akeela as needed), Blake being by-the-book and unconvinced of it all on the sidelines, Agatha meddling around in the background and Arthur as everyone's deus-ex-machina somehow tying both "worlds" together.

 

My initial idea came from looking at the most natural and strong connection between principal characters the series has given us so far: that between Arthur and Dash. Let's find a way to (at least temporarily) mess with that and see how that impacts everyone in the world. Will Dash "grow up" into a healthy, independent adult member of society; or become lost and so desperate for another guiding force in his life that he could, over time, let himself be manipulated into someone a lot more sinister - will he turn erratic and dark when unmoored? What is the force that drives Arthur when looking after Dash's well-being is taken from him? What will Vega do when her unique asset - who she also clearly cares about on some personal level - turns into a potential threat to the society she swore to protect?

 

Anything beyond was write-it-as-you-think-it two beers into my evening, really.

 

 

 

 

I share your questions regarding Agatha. It still irks me that the standout precog of the movie (next to nothing of what we could learn about her there makes a reappearance in the series at this point) remains so one-dimnesional halfway into the series. I completely agree with you when it comes to her potential as a phenomenal Big Bad - even one without autotelicly sinister motivations, who still manages to threaten the very fabric of of the show's society by the ruthlessness with which she pursues her goals.

 

I'm afraid though, that from what the showrunners have stated (the general tone of the show is supposed to not even be ambivalent but inherently utopian, as opposed to distopian like the movie and the P.K. Dick story) and what they seem to promote as her watchword ("when you're to blind to learn its lessons, history repeats itself"), she'll be set up as inherently good, with even so much as her taking an ends-justify-means approach being at best a temporary misstep she will immediately come to regret and personally rectify within the next episode.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Pointer

[Pointer]

I'd like to see Agatha's attempts to get info on the milkbath 2.0 contribute to the precogs' risk, but for the apparent blame to fall at Vega's feet. Dash should feel betrayed, but a substantial part of that will be projecting his dissatisfaction with himself for poor judgement and denial thereof. Agatha should probably rub it in some adding to Dash's emotional stew, because she's not exactly warm and cuddly, while the viewers remain frustrated that her meddling is triggering this. Plus erroneous Vega blaming should render her more sympathetic to the viewing audience. (A lot of us (of the few who watch) don't seem to be buying what she's selling.) Arthur and Vega seem probable (and have more chemistry). I also think Arthur talks a cynical game, but that he'd be better able to forgive Vega than Dash because Arthur's more realistic, so again increased likelihood there.

 

outstanding post all round, krimimimi - your wishes regarding the story for the rest of the season are exactly the kind of stuff I want to see too, and I believe they would be well-anchored in what the writers have (intentionally or unintentionally) laid the groundwork for so far. Especially concerning the characterization and motivation of the different characters.

 

Then your suggestions above work well for me, up to the reconciliation between the brothers at which point I'd really enjoy Agatha emerging as the next big sorta bad, because I think she is a very elegant monster. I wouldn't even mind if she were instrumental in their reconciliation, only to arrive at a different conclusion of best path forward from there, or possibly with a divergent assessment of Dash's behavior as the cause of the rift, where once again Arthur finds it easier to forgive. (The way Arthur jumped in this week leads me to believe he has it in him.) It would be a nice chance to show that the twins may be weaker in terms of precognitive abilities, but ultimately they have each other in a fundamental way that can provide a mutual support and resultant stabilty that she lacks. I'd also like an illustration of the results caused by the differences in age at time of initial experimentation contrasted with the inherent social support system twins have, reflected perhaps in their greater ability to form bonds with others in the present (future) day vs. Agatha's severe reactive attachment disorder.

 

    Cue the season long chase and ultimate redemption arc when the three are forced to come together to battle a renewed threat of milkbathing now that the Hawkeye system has been improved sufficiently to more accurately target them.

 

    But I gather we'll be lucky to get a few more eps. :-(

 

 

Let me get this out of the way first - my hypothetical season 2 was a 30 second write-as-you-think without really much though behind the initial idea of "take the strongest motive/character dynamic of the first season and break it, then see where that takes you".

 

And you take it and turn it into something that not only really works but I would actually want to watch - I doff my hat to you!

 

 

 

I'd also like an illustration of the results caused by the differences in age at time of initial experimentation contrasted with the inherent social support system twins have, reflected perhaps in their greater ability to form bonds with others in the present (future) day vs. Agatha's severe reactive attachment disorder.

 

 

Now, this is, excuse my french, pretty darn brilliant. This is exactly the level of reflection and commentarial exploration I was hoping we'd get from a Minority Report series to begin with. Not a show that reaches the pinnacle of its cleverness by subjecting its audience to a self-congratulatory five second still frame on a closeup of marihuana breath strips and "Iggy Azalea and Demi Lovato are classics by 2065" jokes.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Pointer

[Happytobehere]

This episode makes me sad that the show is all but cancelled. I thought it was really good.

Still bugs that the twins look nothing alike. I know they are fraternal with one presumably looking like the mother and the other looking like the father. If this was a soap, it would be revealed that they have different fathers.

[krimimimi]

Cliff Notes version: Based on what I've seen to date, I don't perceive the precogs, Dash included, are written with the severe level of social, psychological, and emotional damage that's been described by others. Thus, that colors my perception of Dash, his level of agency, and accountability for his decisions and behavior. Same for Arthur and Agatha.

And in a nutshell that would be one of my biggest problems with this series, because you are absolutely correct. They've shown some damage, hinted at more, but by and large seem content to play it for laughs with awkward Dash holding his bouquet. Awkwardly. The psychological aspects could still come into play, but I don't really expect them to anymore. Yet I remain convinced they should be there, and I'd also find it more interesting than what I'm being shown.

On the plus side, Dash is a poor judge of character who befriends a serial killer and enables her to flee, and of course he himself killed someone without compunction. Agatha was thoroughly unfazed by maneuvering someone in front of a bullet. None of them seem to have any friends, Agatha is an outright hermit, and only Arthur has been shown to interact smoothly, if not sincerely, with others. That last bit I rather liked, because he's the one who sees the least, and I would expect him to be the least damaged. He has a more practical gift for his "nefarious" purposes, and the fact that that's how he chooses to use it speaks to their moral ambiguity. Like I said, there are hints here of the show I'd like to see.

Basically, for me it's an issue of cause and effect. They have defined a bunch of causes for effects they seem reluctant to show. Maybe the problem is these causes came predefined by the original story, and given their druthers, they'd have toned it waaaay down. But having selected that as their premise, I want to see the probable and logical end results of the backstory reflected in their characters.

Not sure what it says about me, but I never even considered the possibility that a world with their police system could be utopian. (You guys sure about that???) No wonder I'm not on the same page. Hell, I'm not even in the same book. *crawls off to huxley and orwell*

[Netfoot]

I never even considered the possibility that a world with their police system could be utopian. (You guys sure about that???)

 

A world where minions of the state analyze the pattern of your every action, every purchase, every text, email, bowel movement, and based on some algorithm, pass judgement upon you, and take action to control you?  Where they take away your drivers license to stop you from drinking and driving, based upon the fact that you bought the wrong colour jacket?  Sounds pretty distopian, if you ask me.

[krimimimi]

Let me get this out of the way first - my hypothetical season 2 was a 30 second write-as-you-think without really much though behind the initial idea of "take the strongest motive/character dynamic of the first season and break it, then see where that takes you".

And you take it and turn it into something that not only really works but I would actually want to watch

Thanks a lot. I appreciate that. *beam* No worries, I gathered it was dashed off, and if you look behind what I wrote, I only know that I'd like to see the twins vs Agatha, basically the setup, the tone, and some of the themes I'd like explored, but there's zero mention of actual story to carry that. So same issue as yours really - quickly sketching some ideas. Interestingly enough, we both completely avoided the Vega's father stuff. For my part because it feels too much like overtrod territory, and I can't imagine a compelling storyline with that at its core. It's a typical pitfall of needing to make every character's background hyper-relevant, and it invariably feels forced. Less is often more.

But then more is more sometimes too, and it's nice to know I'm not alone with wanting some of the items on my wishlist.

(Personally, I'd expect the twins to be more messed up than Agatha due to their backgrounds and young age when they were converted to lab rat-dom. I honestly need some convincing that the twin-bond and possibly less intense visions have left them better adjusted than Agatha, and I was really looking forward to seeing that play out week by week. I think it could make for a better overall story with the twins as the heros of the piece, but I'd like for the show runners to convince me that it makes sense, too.)