S04.E23: Two Graves

[renatae]

What's up with Victoria calling Louise "poppet?" Who is she, Mrs. Doubtfire?

 

I know, I thought I heard that incorrectly.  What does that mean?  She meant nothing to Victoria, they act like she knew from a child.  Louise was just nuts.

 

That was meant to imply affection, feigned or not. At that point, Victoria was still invested in doing her best to see that Louise would retain a strong loyalty to her. Remember, Louise was starved for motherly affection, and her big weakness was getting completely emotionally involved with people she barely knew, so the absurdity was lost on her.

[Trini]

 

--Is it really that easy to escape a maximum security prison?

 

Did they even show her "escape"?? One minute she's inside and the next  scene she's outside.

[renatae]

Am I the only one who doesn't get what the big deal is about Emily getting Victoria's heart? It's an organ that is literally responsible for you not being dead. Unless you believe in bad juju or whatever, take it and move on with your life.

 

I can't imagine a situation where Emily (I refuse to call her Amanda) doesn't know where they got a heart for her. She's not on a organ recipient waiting list, and hearts aren't exactly easy to come by. Sure someone could have just said to her that someone else in the hospital died, but there's no way it wouldn't cross Emily's mind that there WAS a fresh corpse lying next to her. Gee, I wonder whose heart I got! Not to mention, none of the doctor or nurses or anyone knew that Victoria was the unwitting donor (is that even legal?).

 

First, you have to be a tissue match, which is quite difficult to find, so much so that organs are transported from other geographic areas, and handled by organ procurement organizations, and not just lying around in individual hospitals. A match would be very unlikely between the two of them, since they were not biologically related, not to mention Victoria's wound would have most likely rendered her heart unusable.

 

However, pretending for the storyline that it was possible, those things are confidential. The recipient is generally not supposed to know who the donor is and medical personnel, well, just think HIPAA. So, while recipients are often curious, and it would be normal for Emanda to be so, unless Charlotte or the people she confided in spilled the beans, Emily would not likely find out. Charlotte, as next of kin, could make the choice to use Victoria's heart, as long as Victoria did not have a living will precluding it, and I don't think it would ever occur to Victoria to say, "and you can't give it to Emanda." LOL

 

All that aside, the significance of her having Victoria's heart is heavily symbolic.

[Lebanna]

The heart thing is pretty clear. Earlier in the episode, Victoria argues that she is better than her mother, and says something along the lines that she must 'have inherited her father's heart' - only to discover instantly that he is an evil abuser - showing her that she never had a chance to be a better person. Her heart was corrupted from day one.

Emanda, whose father always told she had a great, good heart, fears that she has now inherited Victoria's true evil heart, the one she got from her mother and father's abuse of her. They created Victoria, and Victoria created Emanda, breaking her original good heart and replacing it with a copy of her own.

Hopefully, Emanda will allow the heart to die with her.

[darkestboy]

I absolutely loved that finale. One of the best series finales going.

 

Of course Victoria and David were going to be the two graves of the stories. Their actions (along with Conrad's) started Amanda's whole mission and it made sense that neither of them would make it out of the series alive.

 

I liked that David did save Emily from killing Victoria by shooting her and the ambiguity with the heart is pretty twisted as well.

 

As for Emily getting a happy ending - fantastic. She's suffered enough consequences (as have Nolan/Jack etc) during her revenge mission so getting to marry Jack and sail the world is more than satisfying for me as a viewer. Nolan giving the pair of them a puppy as well was pretty cute.

 

Nolan getting his own mission by helping that guy with his mother was a bit of a spin-off set up too. I'd watch the hell out of that show too had it happened.

 

Nice that Emily and Charlotte made things up and nice that both Margaux and Louise came to their senses in relation to Victoria as well.

 

White Gold was quickly dealt with but that wasn't a bad thing either.

 

The various nods to the pilot episode and mentions of many characters who've died was great too, 10/10

[Waldo13]

If EVC has as much heat with Captain America in the next movie as she did with Jack in their big sex scene, I will be a happy camper.

EMC only appeared briefly, as Agent 13, in Winter Soldier but seems to have a bigger part in Civil War in keeping up with her importance, as an operative and Captain America's girlfriend, according to the graphic novels.

The prison brake was abridged IMO because of time restraints but the prisons that would be in the Hampton area are far from maximum security. I find it quite funny that Revenge was shot in LA and EVC said she was only in the Hamptons once. The writers should have done more research on the Hampton area but it seems that the exterior shots, of the houses, were taken in the Hamptons. The USA network show, Royal Pains, is the only show that I know of that is 100% shot in the Hamptons.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Waldo13

[Free]

Did they even show her "escape"?? One minute she's inside and the next  scene she's outside.

 

Not sure, it must've been a blink and missed it scene, I just remember everything being rushed to the end.

[alias1]

When they pulled the fake fire alarm and evacuated the prison, Amanda escaped through the air ducts.  It was definitely more than a blink or you missed it scene.

[TimWil]

For those who care about continuity-in the first shot of the scene with Nolan and Jack when they discuss White Gold Nolan has his left bare foot tucked under his right thigh sitting on the couch. In the immediate subsequent shot (a turn-around on Jack) it's reversed-his right bare foot is tucked under his left thigh.

Edited May 13, 2015 by TimWil

[TheRabbi]

 

The prison brake was abridged IMO because of time restraints but the prisons that would be in the Hampton area are far from maximum security.

 

They tried to pawn it off as Bedford Hills Correctional Facility, which is a women's prison about an hour north of NYC.  Having worked for about 8 years in the New York State prison system myself, I just had to shake my head at the whole thing, because prisons are so woefully presented in almost all forms of television.  I'd still like to know how she got from the main cell hallway, into one vent, and is all of a sudden out there with Nolan.  I realize we're supposed to overlook that since its such a small part of the show (series finale no less), but I just had to shake my head.

[ketose]

Prison escapes are generally pretty hokey. Air vents are not human sized at the point where they connect to the ceiling. Plus, where would they lead? Most HVAC has an air exchanger. No duct, just fans and air channels. Maybe it was a nod to the fact that Team Revenge hadn't lost their brains entirely.

[sportsgirl]

As far as Revenge goes, this was a pretty satisfying ending. I wasn't sure who would stay alive (beyond Nolan) -- after the sex, I was sure Jack would bite it. All three "good guys" were either stabbed or shot, which felt right for the show.  Victoria's death was utterly satisfying: her world view was so skewed, she would never be able to recognize anything beyond her own evil queen-ness. Margeaux was seduced into that perspective, too, so it was satisfying to see her snap out of it in time.

 

I don't buy the Emily/Jack relationship for one second: I've never seen chemistry between the actors/characters or really, a reason for them to be in love beyond childhood, which never rang true to me. Their happily-ever-after seemed rushed, but also, the only satisfying conclusion.

 

Loved Em's nightmares about Victoria's heart! Yes. Nothing will ever heal that girl.

 

I cracked up at this: "Our friends, Aiden and Ben."  Last man standing, Jack.

[VLove]

(3) So many of the plot twists depended on people not simply stating single sentences about who killed who.  Like, "Hey Margeaux, Conrad killed your dad."  "An assassin killed Daniel."  "And who knows who killed you baby." "Oh, and by the way, Victoria killed Emily's fiance ... that's why she's pissed."  But when these simple words are covered by vague statements like "There are some lines that shouldn't be crossed," it shows a lack of creative writing that cannot create complex story-lines without Three's Company type confusion.

 

 

 

 

This.  Just this.

 

I always joke that most carnage in The Game of Thrones could have been avoided if everyone had cell phones - here they have the MOST up to date communication tools and their communication is horrendous.  

 

I think I allow a lot of leeway in television shows because its all tv to me but I'm really glad this is over.  I will miss Nolan, tho

Edited May 13, 2015 by VLove

[DrLar]

What's up with Victoria calling Louise "poppet?" Who is she, Mrs. Doubtfire?

 

This is when I was laughing the most! Louise was like "you are so manipulative Victoria" and she replies "shut up puppet!, now move"

 

Tis' the end of the Graysons forever, all in the ground next to each other very near David's grave, is Emily Thorne also nearby?

[ketose]

So, did they decided not to end with Victoria's hand coming out of the grave?

[sara516]

Unfortunately, that's exactly what she was saying. Eww. One of the many things that often made me feel a little bit sad for Victoria - so much angst in her past that one would think she could have some empathy with Emanda. But, nooo. I thought Madeleine Stowe was smashing throughout this series, for being able to engender both hatred and empathy from me. Her glittering, teary eyes in so many scenes alternately portrayed her own hatred/revenge and her conflicted, broken heart and soul at many turns.

I thought she had been raped by him

And her mother accused her of seducing him?

[millennium]

I wonder what Stephen king thought of the ending, seems he's a big fan. Go figure.

 

 

The show's better than anything he's written in the last 20 years, so ...

If EVC has as much heat with Captain America in the next movie as she did with Jack in their big sex scene, I will be a happy camper.

 

Or a happy van camper.

 

The lack of resolution re: Mason Treadwell bugs me.    How could they just forget/omit him when he was instrumental in framing Amanda?

 

Otherwise the finale was workmanlike in the way it wrapped up the storylines.   I appreciate the lack of ambiguity.  David dying on the porch of his home, in a light snow, was a nice touch.    Amanda and Jack ... fated, I suppose, but I felt no heat.   Stevie couldn't rustle up a better outfit for her son's wedding?  I thought they might hook up Nolan with the guy who left to become a single dad, but maybe that's too obvious.   The heart idea was good, didn't see that coming, glad it was just a nightmare though.  Unpopular opinion: I like Courtney Love.

 

Hope somebody picks up Madeleine Stowe for a new project soon. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by millennium

[alias1]

I've seen several comments about there being no resolution with Mason Treadwell.  I thought the Mason Treadwell story was totally over, no further resolution required.  Amanda cleared his name, gave him money, and he was able to go back to his island anonymity.  Just because he helped Victoria frame Amanda doesn't mean she would go out of her way to look for him.  Her showdown was always going to be with Victoria.  Unless they were going for another season, there wouldn't have been any reason for any more Revenge.  Amanda got her happy ending.  I was satisfied with the finale.

[millennium]

I've seen several comments about there being no resolution with Mason Treadwell.  I thought the Mason Treadwell story was totally over, no further resolution required.  Amanda cleared his name, gave him money, and he was able to go back to his island anonymity.  Just because he helped Victoria frame Amanda doesn't mean she would go out of her way to look for him.  Her showdown was always going to be with Victoria.  Unless they were going for another season, there wouldn't have been any reason for any more Revenge.  Amanda got her happy ending.  I was satisfied with the finale.

 

Mason conspired to bring Amanda down.   He also succeeded in curtailing (albeit temporarily) the brief remaining time Amanda had with David.   Especially with regard to the latter offense, I can't believe the show let him get away scot-free.

 

(Meanwhile, I am struggling with the urge to preface every reply with "Oh, Poppet!")

[Glade]

I've seen several comments about there being no resolution with Mason Treadwell.  I thought the Mason Treadwell story was totally over, no further resolution required.  Amanda cleared his name, gave him money, and he was able to go back to his island anonymity.  Just because he helped Victoria frame Amanda doesn't mean she would go out of her way to look for him.  Her showdown was always going to be with Victoria.  Unless they were going for another season, there wouldn't have been any reason for any more Revenge.  Amanda got her happy ending.  I was satisfied with the finale.

 

I agree with you.  The last several episodes were all about the fact that Amanda wanted to stop getting revenge (and anyway, let's face it, Amanda burned down Mason's house, destroyed one of his manuscripts for a book he was never able to recover/duplicate, made him spend time in prison and destroyed his life and career.  He'll never recover what he had, so he's not scot free at all...)  Amanda wanted to end the cycle, so she isn't thinking about Mason anymore.  The last time we saw him, he seemed really creeped out by the lengths that Victoria was going too, so I think he got away as soon as he could.  There was nothing glamorous about his being one of Victoria's lackeys anyway, so I don't think it restored his pride or dignity. 

 

I think everyone left out there (mason, lydia, ashley...) who might have been pissed off at Amanda will have watched what went between her and Victoria and felt intimidated since they aren't hardcore enough to go that far themselves, and realized that since Victoria couldn't win neither will they.  So the revenge cycle really is over. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Glade

[ByTor]

I agree, I don't think that tying a show up means that there has to be final final resolution for every character.  Mason's ending wasn't ambiguous, so I don't see the need to revisit him as a character.  I saw it mentioned that Amanda's mother was also an unresolved plot hole.  Her story had already been resolved, I only think that character's appearance would have wasted time, especially being that the finale was only an hour.  I am really surprised the "ambiguity" of the heart transplant is being discussed by the actors/showrunners, I thought it was quite obvious it was a dream.  I'm not understanding how an unconscious in a hospital bed Amanda would have heard Charlotte discussing it with the doctor.

 

One thing I did miss, though.  At what point did Louise realize she was being manipulated?

[GaT]

One thing I did miss, though.  At what point did Louise realize she was being manipulated?

Probably around the time Victoria started calling her "Poppet" out of the blue.

[alias1]

Probably around the time Victoria started calling her "Poppet" out of the blue.

Not out of the blue.  Victoria started calling her Poppet from when they first met in the mental institution. 

 

One thing I did miss, though.  At what point did Louise realize she was being manipulated?

When she found out Victoria wasn't really dead.  Louise had planned the perfect funeral, and gave such a touching eulogy, then she discovered it was all an elaborate ruse and Victoria had just manipulated her.

[ByTor]

When she found out Victoria wasn't really dead.  Louise had planned the perfect funeral, and gave such a touching eulogy, then she discovered it was all an elaborate ruse and Victoria had just manipulated her.

I thought Louise might have felt that way when she saw Victoria was alive, but didn't Louise hug her and call her "mama" at that point? Then next thing I know she's going to Emily and Nolan to tell them she knew where Victoria was. I don't recall seeing that "a ha!" look on her face as she realized she was being duped.

 

ETA...it just hit me, I suppose Louise calling Victoria "mama" meant that Victoria is no better than her manipulative mama.

Edited May 20, 2015 by ByTor