Houdini And Doyle - General Discussion

[thuganomics85]

I guess I did kind of like the idea of Houdini and Doyle switching roles for a bit, with the former believing the guy's story about aliens, while the latter was skeptical.  I can buy it, because I do understand the concept of not believing in the supernatural or God, but believing aliens exist.  Bringing up the racial aspects was bit more serious then normal for this show.  I did like Houdini calling out Doyle on his misguided "I understand bigotry, because I accidentally got my black maid fired!" story.  No, Doyle.  Just no.

So, Adelaide opens up to the guys, and it turns out her late husband's death was ruled as a suicide, but she believes it was.... MURDER!  And now that other guy she was in contact with died, so she is even more worried.  I'm sure this will all come ahead; probably closer to the finale.

I wonder where they shot this particular episode?  Felt like a location that I've seen before on other British-based shows.

[janeta]

Did they film the Baskerville ep of Sherlock in the same place? Looked familiar to me too.

The aliens were a bit over the top for me, even thoug they weren't aliens.

[kat165]

I kept trying to place Madam Khourza's accent, but couldn't. Then I realized that it sounded like Emily was imitating Dr. Jones from 12 Monkeys. This brought a smile to my face. The episode did not. I really expected a show with better writing from producer David Shore. House had some great stories. This not so much. It's become mindless summer fare for me.

[gazebo]

Is there any fact based stories about these people that ended up living in the mountains and never venturing outside except if they need to?  They were truly out of the world looking.  Very scary!  I think I jumped every time they came out!  Interesting that it is Houdini that believed in aliens and Doyle solidly opposed to that belief.

This wasn't a bad episode.  I was genuinely intrigued by the mystery this time.

[Goldmoon]

I was pleased to see Jane D. turn up as Marta/Martha.  She had a part in a series called Waiting for God a long time ago.  She played the ditzy helper to the nasty manager/owner.

[Goldmoon]

I don't know anything about the real life Houdini and don't care that they made him single and a bit of a womanizer.  As far as I know, he actually hasn't gotten any, has he, outside of that massage he was getting from his assistant in the first ep.  I keep watching these stories but I wish they were more interesting!

[lookeyloo]

9 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

I was pleased to see Jane D. turn up as Marta/Martha.  She had a part in a series called Waiting for God a long time ago.  She played the ditzy helper to the nasty manager/owner.

We liked that too!   As soon as we heard the voice we said "Isn't that Jane?"  We used to love Waiting for God.

We are enjoying this show for what it is.  

[Trey]

I was less than impressed with episodes 1 and 2, then missed episodes 3, 4, and 5 due to scheduling conflicts so I was very pleased to see that the show had greatly improved in this episode.

Now I'm looking forward to finding out about Adelaide's husband.

[dargosmydaddy]

This show continues to mix the brilliance with the meh.

Delusion-Sherlock was eight kinds of awesome, and then they had to drag it down with the cliche you could see coming a million miles away (Houdini dropping the antidote) and the WTF of the Doyle children randomly clinging to Adelaide, who they've known all of two minutes, during what appeared to be their father's final death throes.

Still and all, I will miss this show when it's gone...

[Trey]

I enjoyed delusional Sherlock too.  I guess they didn't get the antidote to him so that he could save himself, but having Houdini trip with the antidote was so trite.

I wish they would just get down to investigating Adelaide's husband's death.  The CoTW's aren't all that compelling.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, Houdini dropping the antidote just made me shake my head.  It really was an obvious cliche that I saw as soon as he ran out of the asylum with it.  Plus, I figured they were going to find some way to have it end with Doyle using his "mind palace", to save his own life.  I did find it strange during his conversation with his "wife", that he never once said that he had to go back for his children.  Unless I missed it, but all he seemed to say was "Your not real.  This isn't real.", which makes sense, but I thought he would at least say "If I go, the children will be alone!" as well.

Both of the children clinging to Adelaide was a bit much, but I could buy maybe the son doing it, since he was younger and I could go with him maybe having a slight crush on her.  The daughter though, was just kind of strange.

Did enjoy Ewen Bremner as "Sherlock."  I still remember him as Spud from Trainspotting (who had another future Sherlock, Jonny Lee Miller!)

[comsimplex]

His name was "Wilson"!  Hee. 

[Ubiquitous]

I thought the reveal that the aliens were really proto-Morlocks was a bit much, but I did appreciate that they didn't take the cheaters way out by leaving it ambiguous. I also was amused by them assuming it came form one of the seven planets in the Solar System (the concept of galaxies was unknown at the time).

[Ubiquitous]

Yeah, as soon as I saw Houdini running with that glass bottle in his outstretched hand, I knew he was going to drop it. Ditto when Doyle wondered aloud how "Sherlock" knew about things from his unpublished stories.

[The Wild Sow]

Quote

His name was "Wilson"!  Hee. 

And now I'm picturing a volleyball!  "Willll-sonnnnn!"

Well, I'm still enjoying this show, but it's now officially "fiction" in my mind.  Not "historical fiction" - just "fiction."

Unless somehow "Edinburgh" has become a neighborhood in London!  Or Bethlem Royal Hospital managed to transplant itself to Scotland.  Because Doyle's childhood home was Edinburgh, and while Charles Doyle was a alcoholic who died in a mental hospital - it was the Crichton Royal Institution in Dumfries.  Dumfries, Scotland!  

So, Houdini a bachelor (no Bess!) & a horndog, Doyle English, the 2 of them being friends a good 15-20 years before they actually met.....if I just forget these are actual historical people whose fate we know, and think of them as "characters"....it's a pretty good story.

[The Wild Sow]

Quote

I also was amused by them assuming it came form one of the seven planets in the Solar System (the concept of galaxies was unknown at the time).

Seven planets in the Universe, was actually what he said.

The notion of other galaxies (aka "Island Universes!") was developed in the late 19-teens to 19-twenties.  You forget how recent a lot of our "settled" scientific knowledge really is!  If not within my lifetime, certainly within my parents' & grandparents' lifetimes.

[marketdoctor]

Quote

Well, I'm still enjoying this show, but it's now officially "fiction" in my mind.  Not "historical fiction" - just "fiction."

Unless somehow "Edinburgh" has become a neighborhood in London!

I take it as a "what if?" story; very speculative semi-historical fiction--or as you say, just "fiction"--somewhere between "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" (first two graphic novels) and the Sherlock Holmes stories themselves.  It's got some real people doing things they never actually did, and has as much relationship to our-world geography as Glee did.  Sometimes it's accurate ("It's called a 'flashlight'), sometimes it's off (Houdini as single) and sometimes it's well out there (Scotland and London are exactly 200 miliPlots apart; people usually carry exactly one dose of vital antidote in outstretched arms in a glass vial instead of packed in a box full of period-appropriate straw or cotton or feathers.  I was surprised he didn't drop a cotton-filled box, and have them explain that an ingredient in the antidote mixed with the cotton to make guncotton, and then it ignites*.)

I like it for what it is, but I keep in mind the writers use history as a plot point, not a defining constraint.

* This is why, even today, if you print your resume on cotton-based flash paper, do NOT use a laser printer--in fact, you should never do that at all.

[GaT]

Not sure if there supposed to be a episode 8 thread, so I guess I'll post here. "Ma, ma,.....ma" gave me a definite Buffy flashback, I saw it coming as soon as they showed her on the couch.

[The Wild Sow]

LOLed at Houdini's remark about the anarchists being "surprisingly organized!"  (I wonder the same thing every year when the park by my house hosts the Anarchist Picnic -- how the heck do they organize it?!)

Also the bit about the cemetery kid living in his mother's basement, reading fantasy novels.

Creepy/funny as Paul Ritter was, he looks nothing like the real Bram Stoker (who, like Houdini, was very much a married man!)  Stoker's son lived into the 1960s.  Oh well, this show is just pure fiction/fantasy to me now; no relation to any actual historical facts.

And hey, the Scooby Gang is heading for America (well, Canada anyway, eh?)  With anarchists??  Dare I hope that Emma Goldman will put in an appearance?  Aw heck, let's just include Sarah, Coalhouse Walker, Younger Brother, and Evelyn Nesbit while we're at it!  We've already got Houdini!

Edited June 21, 2016 by The Wild Sow

[dargosmydaddy]

In this episode of Houdini and Doyle plays fast and loose with history, we have Doyle claiming to be "childhood friends" with Stoker, despite Stoker being 12 years older than him in real life, and looking to be about that on the show, too. And IRL Houdini's mother died in 1913, the year after Stoker died.

But whatever. This show continues to amuse me. I loved Doyle trying to teach Houdini to whistle, and Adelaide is really growing on me.

[dargosmydaddy]

On 6/21/2016 at 2:00 AM, GaT said:

Not sure if there supposed to be a episode 8 thread,

I just started one now (I only watched the episode now), but anyone can start an episode thread. Feel free to in the future.

[Willowsmom]

Did they ever say what Stoker had? Porphyria ?

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, Willowsmom said:

Did they ever say what Stoker had? Porphyria ?

Syphilis 

[Trey]

Quote

And hey, the Scooby Gang is heading for America (well, Canada anyway, eh?)  With anarchists??  Dare I hope that Emma Goldman will put in an appearance?  Aw heck, let's just include Sarah, Coalhouse Walker, Younger Brother, and Evelyn Nesbit while we're at it!  We've already got Houdini!

They may also run into William Murdoch of the Toronto Constabulary - he is good friends with Doyle and knows Houdini well.

[Willowsmom]

oh those wild theater types. i used to be one, but not that wild.

[The Wild Sow]

7 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

In this episode of Houdini and Doyle plays fast and loose with history, we have Doyle claiming to be "childhood friends" with Stoker, despite Stoker being 12 years older than him in real life, and looking to be about that on the show, too. And IRL Houdini's mother died in 1913, the year after Stoker died.

But whatever. This show continues to amuse me. I loved Doyle trying to teach Houdini to whistle, and Adelaide is really growing on me.

Yeah....not to mention that Ireland and Scotland are 2 different countries!

Real-life Stoker was (like Houdini) a married man, not the peculiar bachelor of the show; in fact, his son lived till the early 1960s.  And Paul Ritter was pretty creepy/funny, but looks nothing like the husky, bearded Bram.  Syphilis may have been accurate but historians don't know for sure.

But yes, it's a fun fantasy!  I liked Houdini's reference to the "surprisingly organized" anarchists, and the bit about the cemetery kids living in mom's basement and spending all their time reading fantasy novels was a hoot!

4 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

oh those wild theater types. i used to be one, but not that wild.

And speaking of "Wilde" theater types -- Bram Stoker was introduced to his wife by none other than his friend Oscar Wilde!

[Willowsmom]

I wouldn't fault any one for syphilis  then. It was pretty common and incurable.

[thuganomics85]

Bringing in Bram Stroker and all the vampire stuff was goofy, but entertaining.  But I knew the Professor was going to be involved in the end, because he was played by Owen Teale a.k.a. Alliser Thorne from Game of Thrones.  I kept waiting for him to go "I must kill Stroker!  And after that, I will kill that bastard, Jon Snow!!!"  Why do you have to be suck a dick, Alliser?!

So, Adelaide figured out that her husband was near-by, whenever a certain assassination took place, so she think he was trying to put that organization down and that's what finally got him killed.  It looks like the organization broke in and took all of the husband's stuff though, except doesn't Houdini still have that Tom Sawyer book?  I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being some kind of coded message in it.

It will be weird if Houdini is back to his normal snarky self next episode, now that his mother just died.  Not sure what they will do, since I feel like this show mainly relies on Doyle and Houdini's banter, and a dour Houdini will probably kill the mood.

[dargosmydaddy]

Per IMBD: The team travel to Canada following reports of a homicidal poltergeist. They meet other paranormal experts and one of them, Thomas Edison, shows them his Necrophone with which he claims to be able to talk to the dead.

[janeta]

--at the very end, what did Houdini see in the cemetery?

[SoSueMe]

His mother? I think....

[SoSueMe]

Gosh, the season finale coming up already. I really like it, hope it is renewed. 

Maybe someone here will post the news when it is decided?

[Trey]

The resolution to Benjamin's suicide/murder was a little anticlimactic but I am glad for Adelaide's sake that he is still alive.

I have absolutely no desire to communicate with the dead.

Nobody likes Edison.

IIRC, from things I have read, Houdini was a great believer (or wanted to believe) in life after death and had told his wife that he would communicate with her after he was gone.  I don't think he ever did though. I'm glad he was able to come to terms with his mother's death.

I really like the show now too, after a slow start;  I hope it is renewed, even if just another 10 or 13 episode season.

[dargosmydaddy]

14 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

Gosh, the season finale coming up already. I really like it, hope it is renewed. 

Maybe someone here will post the news when it is decided?

Based on US ratings it's probably unlikely, but does anyone know how it did in the UK/ Canada? With these split productions, sometimes they end up sticking around because they're cheaper...

[gazebo]

The mysterious lady that popped up when Houdini was mourning over his mom's grave really startled me good!  I think she must be some kind of stalker or a long forgotten family member that decided to stick around after Mrs. Houdini died.  I hope the next episode will tell us more about her.

Thomas Edison didn't come off really well in this episode, eh?  Did he really try to build a machine like that in real life?

I thought this episode was marvelously spooky and the mystery had me intrigued.  I found it hard to believe that Houdini would bounce back so quickly after his mom's death but I guess he was just running away, not really dealing with her death.  I was mildly annoyed at the way he spoke to Thomas Edison.  He's a real arrogant little shit, isn't he?

Now we know that Adelaide's husband is still alive and he's actually a spy.  I'm real curious now!  I want to learn more.  So next week is the season finale and I am already missing this Show.  I hope that they will tie up some loose ends because I really don't know if "Houdini and Doyle" will come back on U.S. TV.

[janeta]

Ah right, i'd forgotten about the mystery lady...

[kat165]

I liked this one too but not for the way Edison was treated or portrayed. When I was a kid he was one of my favorite inventors & I was fascinated by him. I'd like to see the show come back also as it's somewhat entertaining & I like the setting and the main actors.

[Clanstarling]

I don't have any particular affection for Houdini (the real person), so I don't really care if he isn't portrayed as he was. Doyle isn't either - though in his case it's more of a whitewash.

Shows like this - light summer fare as opposed to serious historical drama - I shrug off as "fantasy" anyway, and as long as it's mildly entertaining I'm okay with it. And, for me anyway, it's entertaining enough.

[dargosmydaddy]

The season (possibly series?) finale-- discuss!

Edited July 4, 2016 by dargosmydaddy

[thuganomics85]

Finally caught up to this in time for the finale.  Enjoyed it well enough, especially with the parade of familiar faces, like Peter Outerbridge as Edison, Lara Jean Chorostecki (Freddie Lounds!) as the victim's wife, and Elias Toufexis as the eventual killer.  I figured though that it would end up being a straight-up murder, but I guess that final bit with all the voices was another variation of the "But maybe it's real!" ending.

I wasn't surprised over how they portrayed Edison.  Admittedly, I really need to brush up on my history, but from what I've seen on the net and other media, it feels like people have soured on Edison now and it's all about Tesla.  I'm sure he really was a brilliant inventor, but it does sound like he could be very shady.  Granted, I really probably need to read more about him.  But, hey: at least this Edison came off better then the one Stephen Tobolowsky played on Another Period last year!

The other woman who claimed she could sense the ghosts didn't really factor into this episode.  Not sure what her real point was.  The actress was another person I've seen in a few things (Orphan Black), so I figured something was going to come out of the character.

So, Benjamin isn't dead, and he was just faking his death because the cult was on to him, and he didn't want to put Adalinde in danger.  Not sure what to make of any of it.  Except that the actor looks like a younger Tom Hardy.

Houdini keeps seeing some kind of woman and it's freaking him out.

Onto the finale!

Edited July 5, 2016 by thuganomics85

[janeta]

Shades of Lake Nyos. 

I liked Houdini's little device to check if he was dreaming.

So is this coming back next year?

[dargosmydaddy]

Well, that was creepy...

But also works well, if it is a series finale. Still no official word on cancellation.

[SoSueMe]

TV listings have it as the series finale :(  too bad I really like it. Tonight's episode was good, but it did seem like they were trying to button things up. 

[SoSueMe]

I was an Edison fan til I found out how he killed an elephant just to demonstrate the power of electricity, I think it had something to do with using it for executions. To show efficiency :(

[The Wild Sow]

I'm surprised that they didn't get word on the ship of McKinley's eventual shooting.  Just 4 days later, Leon Czolgosz would succeed where Benjamin failed!

[theatremouse]

Didn't Houdini also have a less than savory trick involving an elephant?

[thuganomics85]

Benjamin really was bad, huh?  I guess it's fitting that it was Adelaide that ends up shooting him, although I'm not sure if he is actually dead or not.  If it's the latter, I can see him coming back.... assuming there's another season.

It was weird at first, when they just had another case and it didn't really feel like a finale, but I enjoyed how they figured it out, and then them going off to deal with the assassination attempt on the President.

Houdini really is hallucinating his mom.  That final shot with the note was showing it isn't just with dreams, but he is seeing her in real life now, correct?  Uh oh!

Doyle getting shot and seeing Sherlock in his mind is what leads to him bringing the character back.  And he got the Baskerville name from that server at the end too.  Not sure if that's following real life!

If this is the end, I won't miss it too much, but I did think the latter episodes were better and it was a fine show for the summer, so if it does come back, I will still watch.

[kassygreene]

The thing is, if Doyle was sufficiently recovered to be ambulatory at sea, then that would have been a few weeks, no?  So all they did was stop an organized assassin and leave the field to a disorganized assassin.

This show is part of a modern genre, I suppose, which takes historical figures, gives them 21st century characterizations, and requires the audience to suspend all disbelief.  I was able to do that with The Musketeers, barely, but this show is a harder slog.

That said, I'd probably watch a second season.  And I freely acknowledge my own hypocrisy - both Copper & Ripper Street were too damned authentic for me to watch...

Suppose I should make an episode-specific comment.  The out-gassing of the mine actually seemed true, although the 20th century examples I'm aware of tend to be methane bubbling out of lakes - killed a whole bunch of people around a lake in Africa a few decades back when the lake belched a big bubble.  People at ground level died, people on second floors did not.

I also liked that Adelaide killed her husband (and boy isn't that a weird thing to type).  

[GaT]

I thought the whole plot with Adelaide & her husband was just stupid, & it ended stupid too.

[Lee4U]

I liked this show - but, I love the period pieces like this where there is none of the current technology with actors seen on their phones, tablets, etc etc etc which bores me to death.  

I also like they had Adelaide solve the reason for the deaths - a smart woman indeed.  

But, since I liked it, it probably won't return....sigh.