Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[Bobbie2120]

Here is my problem with Derek dying. Wouldn't PD get the huge send off shondra got when she left. We also knew when tr was leaving Lexie and mark were all leaving before it happend on the show there where stories. For me even with racing would he not be doing like Ellen and jimmy Kimble if he was done on ga. He is the biggest one on there....

[AnitaM86]

Wouldn't PD get the huge send off shondra got when she left.

I assume you mean Sandra, and since they are playing for the shock, not the expected like her who announced her own departing date, no. He perhaps would get the sendoff the week after (if Derek actually died, which I doubt) with PD doing the late show circuits. Of course, these shows don't announce their guests until later next week, so perhaps we will know Derek's fate before that happens, which will be he's still alive but not well enough or whatever will happen. 

[Bobbie2120]

Still think if he was leaving there would be spoiler out there

[windsprints]

even with racing would he not be doing like Ellen and jimmy Kimble if he was done on ga. He is the biggest one on there

 

If he's finished filming for the year and not planning to return (if PD is even leaving) he's not obligated to go on any talk show to promote the show or explain himself. If the reports are accurate he's also going through a divorce and is 100% committed to racing for right now so perhaps he's choosing to keep things private.

I assume you mean Sandra, and since they are playing for the shock, not the expected like her who announced her own departing date, no. He perhaps would get the sendoff the week after (if Derek actually died, which I doubt) with PD doing the late show circuits.

Its also unknown (again IF he's leaving) when the decision was made. The knew Sandra was leaving before they started writing the season so there was plenty of time to plan story. IMO there have been quite a few call backs to MerDer moments in the past couple of episodes and who knows what the next few will have.  They have plenty of time to give Derek a sendoff if needed.

Edited April 19, 2015 by windsprints

[java23]

Shonda has used the short term memory lapse with Izzie and recently with the plane crash. She did the coma story....all overdone. 

It doesn't seem shocking enough or worthy to revisit those for Derek. If he is still around, it has to be something else...better.

What if he suddenly is it with early onset Alzheimer's. That would be interesting, since they expect it from Mer, and since he quit his work on it in DC.

[LakeLover]

Well, when you hear hoof beats, think horses.

 

All of my theorizing and hopes are I think me trying to come up with plausible ways to keep him on the show, and right now, I think he's leaving. There are too many signs. All of the wonderful dialog between Meredith and Derek that we've wanted to hear forever in one or two episodes, the ferryboat pictures, the time jump which will serve to put some distance between Meredith and his death so we don't watch her actively grieving. Patrick saying in November that he was leaving soon, that he would take time off between Grey's and another acting job to race and travel, and of course the sides.

 

I've given up hope.

 

And you're right, if he's filmed his last, he's under no contractual obligation to appear on any show on behalf of Grey's.

 

It's possible that Shonda/ABC decided to pull the plug, too. We will probably never know.

[Greysaddict]

Oh man Lakelover, I've also been trying to think positive but your post is making me so sad! You make really good points but in addition to what you said what has me leaning toward Derek dying is Amelia's speech "you've never cried over the body of the person you love" bc we know that Meredith HAS in fact watched Derek die (or so she thought in the shooting). Why put this in? It obviously had a purpose. Ugh I really can't wait for 11x21 to air, but I feel like will be left with more questions.

2nd unrelated thought- this season was originally supposed to be 22 episodes before ABC added the extra 2 in sept/oct. So maybe the reason for PD/Derek's being wrapped for the season is bc PD had expected or negotiated to be done taping by mid April? He would have already made his race schedule when the additional episodes were added.

I realize these two thoughts contradict each other, just wanted to put them out there. I defintely keep wavering back and forth on what I think will happen. Gahh, is Thursday yet?

[Tuleh2]

 

And you're right, if he's filmed his last, he's under no contractual obligation to appear on any show on behalf of Grey's.

If Derek is going to die, then the articles interviewing Shonda about it have already been written and will be everywhere as soon as the actual episode airs (they will be embargoed until then). I'm pretty sure she'll say it was PD's choice to sign up for a limited number of episodes (I seriously doubt he broke his contract), but that she - genius that she is - responded by creating The Year of Meredith and isn't it wonderful that we will get to see how bravely Meredith copes with this... blah blah blah.

[stopthestatic]

If Derek is going to die, then the articles interviewing Shonda about it have already been written and will be everywhere as soon as the actual episode airs (they will be embargoed until then). I'm pretty sure she'll say it was PD's choice to sign up for a limited number of episodes (I seriously doubt he broke his contract), but that she - genius that she is - responded by creating The Year of Meredith and isn't it wonderful that we will get to see how bravely Meredith copes with this... blah blah blah.

 

Yes, I'm picturing one of those Ausiello news stories out as soon as the episode airs. "Shonda Rhimes on tonight's Grey's shocker". Blergh.

[AnitaM86]

"you've never cried over the body of the person you love" bc we know that Meredith HAS in fact watched Derek die (or so she thought in the shooting). Why put this in? It obviously had a purpose.

If this was any sort of premonition, I doubt that it's because Meredith will cry over Derek's "death". The whole thing is that she doesn't know if he's dead or alive or alright or maimed or that two hairs moved out of place (tragic, I know). That kind of worry makes you (and obviously will make her) go to the worst case scenario. That will be it. 

 

I still don't believe he's dying and if the show actually kills McDreamy, it will deserve my respect of having the spine to do something bold as that. I won't watch after that but credit where credit is due.

 

I'm pretty sure she'll say it was PD's choice to sign up for a limited number of episodes (I seriously doubt he broke his contract), but that she - genius that she is - responded by creating The Year of Meredith and isn't it wonderful that we will get to see how bravely Meredith copes with this... blah blah blah.

 

 

The moment she said "Year of Meredith" I said "Year of Bullshit". Shonda is not to be trusted when it comes to giving any sort of scoop. She just says what she has to to get people interested. Now, will that transmit to the writing and be the year of Meredith? Of course not. She should just not say anything and stay quiet.

 

Derek is going to die, then the articles interviewing Shonda about it have already been written and will be everywhere as soon as the actual episode airs (they will be embargoed until then).

Surely because most of the press that tweeted to be there, never tweeted to have interviewed PD, which I found interesting. 

[stopthestatic]

The absolute worst thing that could happen is if they really do kill him off at the end of this year, and by some miracle season 12 ends up being the last - whether it be due to plummeting ratings after his death or Ellen not signing for more seasons. That would be an absolute tragedy, IMO. To have him killed off when there was just 20-something episodes of the show left.

 

Of course realistically it won't end until at least season 14 or 15.

[Tuleh2]

 

I still don't believe he's dying and if the show actually kills McDreamy, it will deserve my respect of having the spine to do something bold as that.

If PD decided to leave (or ABC didn't want to pay him) then killing Derek is the EASY way out. It would have been bolder to break up MerDer and then send Derek to DC (or have him run off with an intern or candystriper or something). THAT might have been interesting.

[windsprints]

If PD decided to leave (or ABC didn't want to pay him) then killing Derek is the EASY way out. It would have been bolder to break up MerDer and then send Derek to DC (or have him run off with an intern or candystriper or something). THAT might have been interesting.

And since they spent a lot of time leading up to Derek going to DC and then have him off there they could easily have left it as that. That could have left open some big reunion at the end of the series.

 

I think it would be more about PD wanting more time away than about ABC not wanting to pay him. They wouldn't have signed the contract for 12 if they felt the cost was the only factor. 

 

I do think its all leaning towards Derek dying but I'm still unconvinced that Shonda would actually do it. If anyone really doesn't think there's any possibility of him surviving

go watch the end of last week's Scandal. Jake was stabbed multiple times and blood was pouring out of him yet he's alive in promo pictures in a couple of episodes. Never say never in Shondaland.

 

To have him killed off when there was just 20-something episodes of the show left.

I think they would only kill Derek off if they thought there was a really good chance (or she already agreed) that Ellen would stay beyond season 12.

Edited April 19, 2015 by windsprints

[Tuleh2]

 

I think they would only kill Derek off if they thought there was a really good chance (or she already agreed) that Ellen would stay beyond season 12.

I'd argue that EP is probably ready to leave and might have agreed to a limited number of McDreamy-less episodes in S12 leading up to a big SO-like exit for her (the brave widow starting a new life with her kids after grieving for the length of an Emmy reel...), an exit that she doesn't have to share with PD (which I think would matter to her - she likes being THE lead*). Meanwhile they see if the show can survive based on the romantic exploits of Jolex, Owelia and whatever else they come up with. 

 

*ETA: And the fans that are upset about the end of MerDer will blame PD and not her.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Tuleh2

[funnygirl]

 

Shonda is not to be trusted when it comes to giving any sort of scoop. She just says what she has to to get people interested.

This, this, this! 

 

 

Meanwhile they see if the show can survive based on the romantic exploits of Jolex, Owelia and whatever else they come up with.

And the show will fizzle away, losing what little bit of magic it had left. 

Edited April 19, 2015 by funnygirl

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

What has me worrying more today is something that clicked in my mind last night:  What if Derek on the ferryboat is his farewell, a la Mark Greene walking through the empty ER on "ER" when he died?  Derek has a thing for ferryboats, so TPTB might view that as an appropriate final scene/farewell to Seattle for him.

 

Has the burn victim in the sides for one of the final episodes been identified?  Is there any chance of that being Derek?

 

I haven't completely lost hope that Derek doesn't die, but I'm only hanging on by the tiniest and weakest thread.  I'm dreading this episode, and will never be able to listen to "How to Save a Life" again if Derek dies, which sucks because I really like that song.  I just wish, if Derek is going to die, that Shonda would've had enough respect for the fans to let it be known that Patrick is leaving so that we could've really prepared ourselves.  But of course, shock value is more important to her than respect and potentially alienating a huge amount of the fans.

[Tuleh2]

 

I'm dreading this episode, and will never be able to listen to "How to Save a Life" again if Derek dies, which sucks because I really like that song.

Yes! That's one of the things I hated most about the musical episode: they took songs that evoked memories of great GA scenes and then ruined those memories.

[AnitaM86]

I do think its all leaning towards Derek dying but I'm still unconvinced that Shonda would actually do it. If anyone really doesn't think there's any possibility of him surviving  Spoiler

Could be. We all know this show is incapable of even killing the already dead (See Denny), so I don't put it past Shonda to pull what you posted. 

 

What if Derek on the ferryboat is his farewell, a la Mark Greene walking through the empty ER on "ER" when he died?

Talk about tragic, but somewhat appropriate for his sendoff. 

 

*ETA: And the fans that are upset about the end of MerDer will blame PD and not her.

There was some chatter on Twitter that PD is somewhat to blame for Calzona's SL. I shit you not, it's real and confusing delusional as you might expect. So pretty sure everything is his fault now.

Edited April 19, 2015 by AnitaM86

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

Could be. We all know this show is incapable of even killing the already dead (See Denny), so I don't put it past Shonda to pull what you posted. 

 

Talk about tragic, but somewhat appropriate for his sendoff. 

 

There was some chatter on Twitter that PD is somewhat to blame for Calzona's SL. I shit you not, it's real and confusing delusional as you might expect. So pretty sure everything is his fault now.

 

**Waves hand wildly**  I'd gladly tune back in if Derek is dead, but makes ghost appearances!!  Bring on the drowning NDEs and brain tumor hallucinations!!  Give Mere Alzheimer's and have her story line be filled with flashbacks to interactions with Derek that are new to viewers!!

 

How on earth is Patrick at all at fault for Calzona's story line??  That is one majorly convoluted line of thinking!!

 

If Derek dies but it was Patrick's decision to leave, I totally respect his decision and have no problem with him at all.  Having said that, I will still be bitter towards Shonda and Co. for killing Derek, unless of course that was Patrick's request as well.

[maasa]

How on earth is Patrick at all at fault for Calzona's story line??  That is one majorly convoluted line of thinking!!

Not really. If his exit wasn't planned from the start of the season they would have to rework storylines to accommodate his exit which could potentially alter other characters storylines. MerDer fans are upset that others could think this because its Patrick. When Kate was going off to Private Practice, Isaiah being let go or Katherine leaving MerDer fans had no problem at all blame each of these actors for the lack of MerDer. They blamed Gina Davis being a guest star for it earlier this season. Hell some even tweeted the actress playing Renee and told her she ruined Grey's Anatomy forever. The only difference is who is being blamed this time. There's no lack of bitterness from any part of the fandom and its been like that from the start. (no, I am not a Calzona shipper)

I'd argue that EP is probably ready to leave and might have agreed to a limited number of McDreamy-less episodes in S12 leading up to a big SO-like exit for her (the brave widow starting a new life with her kids after grieving for the length of an Emmy reel...), an exit that she doesn't have to share with PD (which I think would matter to her - she likes being THE lead*).

That is an interesting view. If Ellen wants the Emmy reel and feels that being the lead in the spotlight is that important then its possible she requested Derek to be killed off when Patrick wanted to leave so that its better for her.

And the fans that are upset about the end of MerDer will blame PD and not her.

I am not surprised. From what I have seen over the years there's a large part of the fandom who appears to think Meredith/Ellen can do no wrong.

If Derek dies but it was Patrick's decision to leave, I totally respect his decision and have no problem with him at all.  Having said that, I will still be bitter towards Shonda and Co. for killing Derek, unless of course that was Patrick's request as well.

I respect any actor's decision to leave on any show especially when they have played the same character for several years. I don't believe that breaking up MerDer and having Derek leave would leave fans any less angry than if Derek dies.There's no way Shonda can win here. I was a big Alex and Izzie fan and I would absolutely have preferred Izzie dying instead of the way she was written out. At least if she died Alex would have been left with a decent storyline.

And the show will fizzle away, losing what little bit of magic it had left.

YMMV but the show fizzles a little more every season and the magic left the building years ago. There are still many character that will remain and their fans will watch next season. I thought earlier that MerDer and Meredith fans would as well but that suggestion was met with a resounding no.

[CED9]

There was some chatter on Twitter that PD is somewhat to blame for Calzona's SL. I shit you not, it's real and confusing delusional as you might expect. So pretty sure everything is his fault now.

Hmm. Can't say I've seen that, although there was an assumption that CA was going to break up in S10, but got thrown back together needlessly to accommodate Sandra Oh leaving. But that was because Callie said the same damn thing to Arizona in the therapy episode this season that she said to her early last season.

[MerDerFan4Ever]

I literally go back and forth on what I think will happen every day! Lol

Some days I think Derek will die just because there are SO many things pointing to it. However, deep down I mostly don't believe PD would leave and allow it to happen and I don't believe Shonda and ABC would do this because it would absolutely be THE END of the show! The final nail in it's coffin! I know..it's only my opinion...but there are a lot of people out there who agree with me. I would be so done and no I would not even watch the remaining episodes this season if he dies. Having said all that...here is my theory about what will happen.

Meredith will THINK he died or is brain dead (for those who read sides, isn't it speculated that Derek is the burn victim who has had no brain activity for 12 hours???) This is where I think those scenes that PD filmed in Seattle on the ferry boat come into play! The episode will end with Meredith standing over "Derek" in the hospital bed brain dead. Then it goes to DEREK on the ferry boat (why I have not figured out yet!) very much alive!!!

I think the next episode jumps ahead 6 months or so to show what her life would be like without him. AU, dream, whatever. Maybe episode 23 too?? But in the finale Derek returns to her alive and well!

[windsprints]

isn't it speculated that Derek is the burn victim who has had no brain activity for 12 hours

There is so much speculation around I think Derek has been given every possible cause of death. The patient in the sides that I'm pretty sure you are referring to isn't a burn victim but yes, the doctor says there has been no brain activity for 12 hours. If interested, all the sides are nicely summarized HERE.

Then it goes to DEREK on the ferry boat

I think the scenes were filmed out of order and that was last due to them having to go to Seattle to film him on the ferry. My guess is Derek on the ferry is Derek right after he left home. He goes from the ferry to the ride to the airport and then comes across the accident.

What if Derek on the ferryboat is his farewell, a la Mark Greene walking through the empty ER on "ER" when he died?

Oh, could be. We saw George in the elevator after he died and Denny walking down the hall into the light. Maybe bookends of him on the ferry, maybe during the VOs? Opening on his way from home and the ending as you say.

I'd argue that EP is probably ready to leave and might have agreed to a limited number of McDreamy-less episodes in S12 leading up to a big SO-like exit for her (the brave widow starting a new life with her kids after grieving for the length of an Emmy reel...), an exit that she doesn't have to share with PD (which I think would matter to her - she likes being THE lead*).

If that is the case then I guess so much for her being all about the fans.  

If Derek dies but it was Patrick's decision to leave, I totally respect his decision and have no problem with him at all.  Having said that, I will still be bitter towards Shonda and Co. for killing Derek, unless of course that was Patrick's request as well.

ER gave some actors the option to pick whether their characters die or leave another way. I'm not sure Grey's would ever do this. If the exit was discussed with Patrick and/or Ellen I don't think either would get final say; Shonda would.

I just wish, if Derek is going to die, that Shonda would've had enough respect for the fans to let it be known that Patrick is leaving so that we could've really prepared ourselves.  But of course, shock value is more important to her than respect and potentially alienating a huge amount of the fans.

I understand that some people would want to know ahead of time. But, there are millions and millions of people that watch Grey's weekly who never read a spoiler and know nothing about cast comings and goings. Deaths and other stories no one knew in advance are often heralded as great tv so I can see why they would try to keep his exit (IF he is even going) under wraps.

We all know this show is incapable of even killing the already dead

Haha, but very true! Dead Denny lingered and lingered. 

Edited April 19, 2015 by windsprints

[BoaGreys]

Meredith will THINK he died or is brain dead (for those who read sides, isn't it speculated that Derek is the burn victim who has had no brain activity for 12 hours???) This is where I think those scenes that PD filmed in Seattle on the ferry boat come into play! The episode will end with Meredith standing over "Derek" in the hospital bed brain dead. Then it goes to DEREK on the ferry boat (why I have not figured out yet!) very much alive!!!

I think the next episode jumps ahead 6 months or so to show what her life would be like without him. AU, dream, whatever. Maybe episode 23 too?? But in the finale Derek returns to her alive and well!

But in this case how about the season 12 ?

 

Patrick said the rest of the year will be focused 100% on the races. His WEC season will end on November. I guess it means he won't do anything else than race. How can Derek come back in season 11 finale and not to be in the beginning of season 12 ? .

Edited April 19, 2015 by BoaGreys

[Evie]

Not really. If his exit wasn't planned from the start of the season they would have to rework storylines to accommodate his exit which could potentially alter other characters storylines.

I am curious whether this Derek drama was planned from the start. I'm leaning toward no. Didn't Shonda tweet at some point about doing rewrites? This season never flowed for me because of all the character-centric episodes, but the show has felt more random than normal since the Herman storyline ended. Even if something changed with PD, however, he doesn't write the show. Decent writers could rework storylines without leaving half the cast floundering.

[funnygirl]

 

Has the burn victim in the sides for one of the final episodes been identified?  Is there any chance of that being Derek?

Nicole Sullivan plays the burn victim in episode 22. She tweeted a picture some weeks ago with her in full makeup on set. 

[Tuleh2]

 

I would be so done and no I would not even watch the remaining episodes this season if he dies.

We don't really think the "will Derek die?" question is going to be resolved in this week's episode, do we?

[JayCeeJ]

I do think the question will be answered Thursday. If PD is really leaving and Derek dies, the show will want to get past that quickly, and we know from sides that there's a significant time jump in the following episode. If the ep ends with Derek's fate unresolved, then we're all wrong and PD is staying, but at this point I think that's very unlikely.

[Tuleh2]

 

I am curious whether this Derek drama was planned from the start. I'm leaning toward no. Didn't Shonda tweet at some point about doing rewrites?

I think they might have decided at some point to start positioning for a MerDer-less S12 by putting off some planned SLs (Jolex, for example, which Shonda promised but didn't deliver). Then they threw in stuff like April's baby. That doesn't mean that there was a change in PD's planned level of participation in the show, but that as they started working through the grab-bag of character arc ideas they started with (and the ratings held up even with the move to 8PM), they decided to "save" some for S12.

[choclatechip45]

The guy who played Dell in private practice wanted off the show and asked Shonda if she could kill him off. So she has honored requests before.

[Eolivet]

But that was some nobody actor (sorry, Chris Lowell) who was a supporting character on a modestly rated show. I am firmly of the belief that if Derek is dying, it's not because Shonda wants it or Dempsey or anyone else asked. It is because Dempsey has told ABC in no uncertain terms that he has no interest in continuing or returning (they could do "ghost Derek," but I feel like the show wants to move beyond that). I believe if there is any chance Dempsey will come back even a couple times (that they could promote heavily), ABC will keep Derek alive. I just feel like he is too important to the Grey's franchise that they would never part with him willingly. Knight, Heigl, Leigh, Dane...even Oh, to a point, were merely supporting characters (in ABC's mind). Patrick Dempsey helped put the show on the map, to them.

 

As much power as Shonda wields -- and I do believe she wields considerable power at ABC -- I believe the network would stop her from killing Derek if Dempsey was leaving the door open to come back at all. I believe the only way Derek exits horizontally is if Dempsey is exiting permanently.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Eolivet

[maasa]

ABC will keep Derek alive. I just feel like he is too important to the Grey's franchise that they would never part with him willingly. Knight, Heigl, Leigh, Dane...even Oh, to a point, were merely supporting characters (in ABC's mind). Patrick Dempsey helped put the show on the map, to them.

I do agree that the McDreamy persona was a big part of the show's explosion to fame but that was 11 years ago. I disagree that Derek isn't a supporting character. He is the love interest of the main (at least in title) character of the show. I'd say 90% of his storyline was Meredith related. Of the 4 actors you listed at least 2, Heigl & Oh, had plenty of story that was about their characters. So by definition they were less of supporting characters than Derek is. Cristina more than Izzie. Shonda has said Meredith and Cristina are the love story of the show and that they are soul mates. I can see Shonda wanting Meredith to end with Cristina when the show is over and that could be why they made sure to leave the door open for Cristina's return at the end of the series.

 

If Patrick is leaving then they are parting with him willingly. If Patrick did sign a contract for season 12 ABC would need to agree to release him from it. If they were insistent that Derek must remain on the show they wouldn't do it and would hold him to the contract.

Edited April 19, 2015 by maasa

[Tuleh2]

 

As much power as Shonda wields -- and I do believe she wields considerable power at ABC -- I believe the network would stop her from killing Derek if Dempsey was leaving the door open to come back at all. I believe the only way Derek exits horizontally is if Dempsey is exiting permanently.

I agree with all of this, Eolivet... but for the EP factor. If EP wanted to leave (say, during, or at the end of S12), would they have any use for Derek? (I can't see Shonda EVER writing for a "single father" character... she likes her male characters to be dispensable.) And if EP wanted to leave, I can't help thinking that Shonda would rather not have MerDer ride off into the sunset together - that reinforces the idea of GA as "The MerDer Show," which she has always resisted.

 

I'll be interested to see how long EP stays on the show after PD leaves (but not interested enough to watch it).

[choclatechip45]

But that was some nobody actor (sorry, Chris Lowell) who was a supporting character on a modestly rated show. I am firmly of the belief that if Derek is dying, it's not because Shonda wants it or Dempsey or anyone else asked. It is because Dempsey has told ABC in no uncertain terms that he has no interest in continuing or returning (they could do "ghost Derek," but I feel like the show wants to move beyond that). I believe if there is any chance Dempsey will come back even a couple times (that they could promote heavily), ABC will keep Derek alive. I just feel like he is too important to the Grey's franchise that they would never part with him willingly. Knight, Heigl, Leigh, Dane...even Oh, to a point, were merely supporting characters (in ABC's mind). Patrick Dempsey helped put the show on the map, to them.

As much power as Shonda wields -- and I do believe she wields considerable power at ABC -- I believe the network would stop her from killing Derek if Dempsey was leaving the door open to come back at all. I believe the only way Derek exits horizontally is if Dempsey is exiting permanently.

I know he is a nobody compared to Patrick, but that just means whatever Patrick wants he gets. If he wants to be killed of Shonda will do that. Considering he said In November he would be off Grey's shortly has always made me believe he wants to be killed off.

[Eolivet]

I agree with all of this, Eolivet... but for the EP factor. If EP wanted to leave (say, during, or at the end of S12), would they have any use for Derek? (I can't see Shonda EVER writing for a "single father" character... she likes her male characters to be dispensable.) And if EP wanted to leave, I can't help thinking that Shonda would rather not have MerDer ride off into the sunset together - that reinforces the idea of GA as "The MerDer Show," which she has always resisted.

 

I'll be interested to see how long EP stays on the show after PD leaves (but not interested enough to watch it).

 

That's a really good point. I suppose I'm thinking marketing-wise as opposed to character-wise, and I feel like for ABC, Pompeo was never as important as Dempsey (or the two of them together). So, if Derek is killed, it means Shonda/ABC has some kind of longer-ish-term commitment from Pompeo? Wasn't there a joke about there always had to be one "Grey" for it to be "Grey's Anatomy." (maybe that's why they added Maggie -- needed a spare Grey).

 

I do agree that the McDreamy persona was a big part of the show's explosion to fame but that was 11 years ago. I disagree that Derek isn't a supporting character. He is the love interest of the main (at least in title) character of the show. I'd say 90% of his storyline was Meredith related. Of the 4 actors you listed at least 2, Heigl & Oh, had plenty of story that was about their characters. So by definition they were less of supporting characters than Derek is. Cristina more than Izzie. Shonda has said Meredith and Cristina are the love story of the show and that they are soul mates. I can see Shonda wanting Meredith to end with Cristina when the show is over and that could be why they made sure to leave the door open for Cristina's return at the end of the series.

 

If Patrick is leaving then they are parting with him willingly. If Patrick did sign a contract for season 12 ABC would need to agree to release him from it. If they were insistent that Derek must remain on the show they wouldn't do it and would hold him to the contract.

 

I agree with the description of Derek in-show -- as a character, he's very much a supporting one -- but I'm more talking from a marketing standpoint. He and Pompeo are the tentpoles of the show and always have been, marketing-wise (not necessarily storywise). And he was the only one with "name recognition" when the show started.

 

As for the contract...I'm trying to remember a case of an actor who wanted to leave and couldn't because the network enforced their contract. Maybe Heigl, but that was a fuzzy situation all around. Didn't Caruso sign a contract for five years or whatever at NYPD Blue and then quit in the second year? I'm saying with all the comings and goings of actors prior to contracts being up, it doesn't sound like they're exactly iron-clad.

 

My only argument in this case is I believe if Dempsey said "I'm leaving now, but maybe I'll come back for a couple episodes down the road, you never know" and Shonda said "But I've already planned a dramatic Derek death," ABC would say "Not so fast." If Dempsey said "I'm leaving and never coming back," then ABC would let Shonda do whatever she wanted. That's all.

[AnitaM86]

If his exit wasn't planned from the start of the season they would have to rework storylines to accommodate his exit which could potentially alter other characters storylines.

This would be true if Derek or any other character in question would be more integrated to other characters. As of now, each character exists in their own bubble that it's very hard to make the accusation that because actor x is not there, actor w doesn't have an SL (unless be the spouse or direct friend of the moment) as it's most likely too ridiculous to even have any sort of justification. And yes, I include the Geena Davis tweets et al.

 

I just feel like he is too important to the Grey's franchise that they would never part with him willingly. Knight, Heigl, Leigh, Dane...even Oh, to a point, were merely supporting characters (in ABC's mind). Patrick Dempsey helped put the show on the map, to them.

PD is easily the most marketable star in the show for sure and ABC would have to certainly have to pull some serious strings to compensate his loss, but ABC can also see this as a rebirth of the show (which they'll eventually need if they plan to keep it past 12 seasons) and do something new. It won't be as effective but hell, the network cannot rely on one (or two if you count EP) person to carry this part. Maybe ABC is gearing up for the future.

 

I do agree that ABC would fight to the death to keep Derek alive for the opportunity of future appearances (a la Clooney, just easier). But for now, for the reason you stated, I have a hard time to believe that PD is leaving at all. 

 

We don't really think the "will Derek die?" question is going to be resolved in this week's episode, do we?

I think we will and we all will be severely disappointed by whatever result is. I really just want to see PD in action to be honest.

[windsprints]

This would be true if Derek or any other character in question would be more integrated to other characters. As of now, each character exists in their own bubble that it's very hard to make the accusation that because actor x is not there, actor w doesn't have an SL (unless be the spouse or direct friend of the moment) as it's most likely too ridiculous to even have any sort of justification. And yes, I include the Geena Davis tweets et al.

 

I don't fully agree. I do agree that the love interest would be the most affected. However, if storyline needs to be reworked to add or change story to accommodate an absence/exit then others can be affected. Maggie/Richard could be an example. It seemed that Maggie/Richard were going to have some sort of story and then Meredith went from hating her to calling her from bed in like 2 episodes, bringing Maggie closer to Meredith while Derek was away.  I feel that Alex had more "person" time with Meredith due to Derek not being around as well. I'm not expecting anyone to agree, everyone sees things differently. As another poster mentioned above there's plenty of disagreeing opinions on what changes the show and always has been.

 

Moving the rest of my reply to the Patrick Dempsey thread since I'm veering more and more off the spoiler topic.

[MerDerFan4Ever]

There is so much speculation around I think Derek has been given every possible cause of death. The patient in the sides that I'm pretty sure you are referring to isn't a burn victim but yes, the doctor says there has been no brain activity for 12 hours. If interested, all the sides are nicely summarized HERE.

I think the scenes were filmed out of order and that was last due to them having to go to Seattle to film him on the ferry. My guess is Derek on the ferry is Derek right after he left home. He goes from the ferry to the ride to the airport and then comes across the accident.

Oh, could be. We saw George in the elevator after he died and Denny walking down the hall into the light. Maybe bookends of him on the ferry, maybe during the VOs? Opening on his way from home and the ending as you say.

If that is the case then I guess so much for her being all about the fans.  

ER gave some actors the option to pick whether their characters die or leave another way. I'm not sure Grey's would ever do this. If the exit was discussed with Patrick and/or Ellen I don't think either would get final say; Shonda would.

I understand that some people would want to know ahead of time. But, there are millions and millions of people that watch Grey's weekly who never read a spoiler and know nothing about cast comings and goings. Deaths and other stories no one knew in advance are often heralded as great tv so I can see why they would try to keep his exit (IF he is even going) under wraps.

Haha, but very true! Dead Denny lingered and lingered. 

Well there goes my theory of it being a case of "mistaken indentity" with the burn victim. Unless the person's body was burned beyond recognition, it's hard to not to know whether or not that's your husband laying in a hospital bed! I got the sides mixed up. The scene that Meredith is in says nothing about burns. I thought maybe the burn victim somehow ended up with Derek's ID or something. This kind of changes that...ugh!!

 

As for the scenes on the ferry, I just can't see why in the world ABC would spring for a location shoot in Seattle on a ferry boat, just for a few scenes at the very beginning of the episode. That's wasting money and can't you "green screen" scenes like this??? I just think the ferry boat scenes have to be more meaningful than that. Also, maybe I am wrong to think this way but, if PD was leaving and being killed off, and those ferry boat scenes were his last, I just cannot see him "rubbing it in" to the fans faces by posting about it on Twitter like he did. If he did it knowing he is leaving and being killed off then so much for what HE thinks of the fans too! I just don't think he's like that!

 

He knows we have been invested for 10 years. Same goes for the scene with Meredith where she goes to the hospital after he is supposedly injured. He posted that day too when they were filming that scene and said something about EP being in love at her work. I just can't see him making light of Derek dying like that knowing how it would hurt the fans! I still stand by my opinion that those ferry boat scenes at the end may clue the audience into the fact that Derek IS alive, although Meredith may not know it. That accomplishes a couple of things.

 

1. It gets the fans off the ledge of "OMG Derek is going to die or "OMG is Derek going to die" because those freak outs are EVERYWHERE 2. To possibly "where is Derek going" or "Okay, Derek is alive but when will Meredith find out?" See that still provides ABC with something to promote, hashtag, etc! But at least the fans are off the ledge and still watching to see when he returns. Once we know he lives they can do these things to keep us watching to see what happens next. But if I even THINK he's dead then I am done! Shonda won't string me along for the rest of the season like a puppet!

 

 

But in this case how about the season 12 ?

 

Patrick said the rest of the year will be focused 100% on the races. His WEC season will end on November. I guess it means he won't do anything else than race. How can Derek come back in season 11 finale and not to be in the beginning of season 12 ? .

I think PD sometimes says things or words things unintetntionally without thinking about how it sounds or comes out. When he said he can concenttrate on racing for the rest of the year, I took it to mean the "Grey's year" the rest of the filming season. Not literally the rest of the year or even the rest of the racing year (November). I took it to mean he would not return to Grey's in July.

 

I am curious whether this Derek drama was planned from the start. I'm leaning toward no. Didn't Shonda tweet at some point about doing rewrites? This season never flowed for me because of all the character-centric episodes, but the show has felt more random than normal since the Herman storyline ended. Even if something changed with PD, however, he doesn't write the show. Decent writers could rework storylines without leaving half the cast floundering.

Since Shonda is the creator and where "the buck ultimately stops" I would think she would do a lot of re-writes in general. If something does not jive with the way she wants it to go then she has the authority to re-write it. She has said this before and I have always assumed this to be the case.

 

We don't really think the "will Derek die?" question is going to be resolved in this week's episode, do we?

I took it that it would be. It better be solved with the resolution that he is very much alive if they want a lot of the fans to continue watching! I will not be stringed along because I am not her puppet!

 

I do think the question will be answered Thursday. If PD is really leaving and Derek dies, the show will want to get past that quickly, and we know from sides that there's a significant time jump in the following episode. If the ep ends with Derek's fate unresolved, then we're all wrong and PD is staying, but at this point I think that's very unlikely.

The more I read the sides for 11X22 it really sounds AU or dream-like or something.

 

I think they might have decided at some point to start positioning for a MerDer-less S12 by putting off some planned SLs (Jolex, for example, which Shonda promised but didn't deliver). Then they threw in stuff like April's baby. That doesn't mean that there was a change in PD's planned level of participation in the show, but that as they started working through the grab-bag of character arc ideas they started with (and the ratings held up even with the move to 8PM), they decided to "save" some for S12.

I can believe that PD and EP have it written in their contracts that they will appear less in season 12. Maybe that was part of the agreement.

 

I know he is a nobody compared to Patrick, but that just means whatever Patrick wants he gets. If he wants to be killed of Shonda will do that. Considering he said I'm November he would be off Grey's shortly has always made me believe he wants to be killed off.

I can't find it right now but I am almost sure that PD went public after that article appeared and said that he would not leave Grey's early. He would finish out his contract at least.

[choclatechip45]

I don't remember seeing anything were Patrick went public after that story that he wouldn't leave Grey's early. I remember reading "abc insiders" that said he had a contract to finish.

[Greysaddict]

What has me worrying more today is something that clicked in my mind last night:  What if Derek on the ferryboat is his farewell, a la Mark Greene walking through the empty ER on "ER" when he died?  Derek has a thing for ferryboats, so TPTB might view that as an appropriate final scene/farewell to Seattle for him.

I see what you mean, and it defintely makes sense...but they must have a million shots of Derek on ferries that could do a flashback montage with if it was just a death or "farewell". It doesn't seems like they would need to go to Seattle just for that.

We don't really think the "will Derek die?" question is going to be resolved in this week's episode, do we?

I agree, given how pretty much every episode has ended with a "cliffhanger" I don't think we'll know if he is dead or not. I think the episode will end on Meredith walking into his hospital room with the monitors beeping or something so we know/think he's is in danger. And I'm sure we'll have another fantastic hashtag #savederek

[Tuleh2]

 

As for the scenes on the ferry, I just can't see why in the world ABC would spring for a location shoot in Seattle on a ferry boat, just for a few scenes at the very beginning of the episode. That's wasting money and can't you "green screen" scenes like this?

They probabably could "green screen" a ferry but it wouldn't look very good. (GA's "interior of moving car" shots always look pretty cheesy to me.) Wanting to make it look good, and wanting the publicity attendant on a high-profile location shoot (PD wouldn't have tweeted it if GA didn't want him to) could just as easily argue for building up the anticipation for what could be Derek's last episode.

 

Also, maybe I am wrong to think this way but, if PD was leaving and being killed off, and those ferry boat scenes were his last, I just cannot see him "rubbing it in" to the fans faces by posting about it on Twitter like he did.... I just can't see him making light of Derek dying like that knowing how it would hurt the fans!

I didn't take it that way at all, MerDerFan, but I'm not a MerDer shipper. (I thought Ellen's earlier retweet of a fan comment about Shonda hurting Derek would be in poor taste if her longtime costar was really leaving, but that's probably just my antipathy towards Meredith, which knows no bounds.) YMMV.

 

If Derek does die, I'm afraid PD won't be able to say - or do - ANYTHING right where the shippers are concerned. Big MerDer popularity = Big Backlash and it looks like PD will bear the brunt of it, regardless of what his contractual arrangements with ABC are/were. ABC will certainly want to protect Shonda from any fallout.

[Bobbie2120]

Maybe nothing happens to Derek and that's the shock we are all thinking he is going to die and be hurt. Could this be an eppie like the er eppie with George cloney where he saved that little boy in the storm Drane?? Sorry about spelling

[stopthestatic]

My only argument in this case is I believe if Dempsey said "I'm leaving now, but maybe I'll come back for a couple episodes down the road, you never know" and Shonda said "But I've already planned a dramatic Derek death," ABC would say "Not so fast." If Dempsey said "I'm leaving and never coming back," then ABC would let Shonda do whatever she wanted. That's all.

 

I agree with this fully. ABC knows he's an asset to the show. But I also think Shonda does seem to kill off characters when she can't figure out a proper exit strategy. Anything that requires a tiny bit of thought and creativity ends with her concluding to kill them off right away. Lexie and Mark are a good example. So is Pete on PP.

 

Lexie could've easily moved away to help Molly with her kids after her husband died in Iraq. Or Thatcher could've gotten sick and she could've gone to live wherever he lives to help take care of him. Both of these things are fully something Lexie's character WOULD do.

 

Then there's "I thought about sending Mark to Addison but he'd never leave Sofia" Why not have them get joint custody and Sofia spends some time with him wherever he moves? And hey! Since Lexie is leaving too, Mark can take a job where she's going so they can end up together. Plus they already have an issue with showing the kids on screen consistently so that'd be a good excuse to not have to show Sofia as much.

 

And then there's Pete who had an exit strategy already built in with his possibly going to jail IIRC, and she chose to kill him off instead and made herself look bad when Tim Daly didn't even get a call from her directly to tell him he was being let go.

 

She's just a lazy writer. Killing characters off is taking the easy and simple way out, you have to admit. You don't have to put in 5 minutes of work and use your brain to come up with a solution. And killing Derek would be another example of that. She thrives off of the murdering of characters and the drama it creates.

 

 

 

---

 

I was also thinking about Meredith's future on my Twitter earlier. If Derek dies and they go the grieving widow/single mother direction with her and eventually there's pressure to put her in a relationship, who else can totally picture Shonda bringing back Finn a decade after his relationship with Meredith and having them end up together? Just imagine her defending the relationship: "Finn had lost his wife and Meredith recently lost her husband. That's something he's been through before and he understands her pain, we're exploring their relationship and what it means to put yourself out there again after a trauma like that." UGH.

 

ETA: I just remembered Finn's wife died in a car accident too. If Derek does die I would not be surprised in the least if this happens. Shonda loves her weird symmetry. 

Edited April 19, 2015 by stopthestatic

[Deanie87]

If Derek does die, I'm afraid PD won't be able to say - or do - ANYTHING right where the shippers are concerned. Big MerDer popularity = Big Backlash and it looks like PD will bear the brunt of it, regardless of what his contractual arrangements with ABC are/were. ABC will certainly want to protect Shonda from any fallout.

Do you think PD really cares if there is a shipper fan backlash? I mean, I am not really a huge fan, but even I recognize that he is Patrick Dempsey and will have plenty of acting opportunities if he wants them. But it sounds like he will be concentrating on racing for awhile and I'm not sure if his Greys departure will affect that.

I certainly don't think that he would go out of his way to antagonize or dismiss fans, but this is his life and his career. He is going to do what he needs to do and I imagine that once he is done with Greys he will be on to the next thing. As long as he doesn't completely dick over ABC or Shonda (which I'm sure he wouldn't do), I think his reputation will remain intact.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Deanie87

[Greysaddict]

So it seems like they are casting for a Caucasian newborn. Does anyone know if they typically have casting calls for patient babies? Like in the NICU or whatever? Just trying to figure out if we're definitely getting a baby storyline or if it could just be a patient.

If it is one of the regulars, since they specified Caucasian it would have be either Mer/Der, Owen/Amelia or Jolex (did I miss anyone?). At this point I guess it could be any of them.

On set pictures have been floating around of both Ellen and Camilla with neither one looking pregnant, but that doesn't mean much.

[JayCeeJ]

They were casting a pregnant patient for 11x23, so that's probably the reason.

[LakeLover]

AND I'm grasping at straws again. I know, I know.

 

The sides have the hospital (not GSM) looking for the neurosurgeon who is at a family function. Derek has promised Meredith that he would be back, and in the promo, promises the little girl he doesn't let people die. What if Derek steps in for the missing neurosurgeon, does the surgery, and in the meantime his SUV is stolen (there's another accident with an SUV, head-on collision) and that guy with Derek's phone and ID is the brain dead guy in the sides...and Meredith goes to identify the body and it's not Derek?

Edited April 20, 2015 by LakeLover

[windsprints]

I think the doctor at the family function they are waiting for in the Nurse side is Dr. Cohn (another side) but could be wrong. Hard to say for sure.

Edited April 20, 2015 by windsprints

[LakeLover]

I think the doctor at the family function they are waiting for in the Nurse side is Dr. Cohn (another side) but could be wrong. Hard to say for sure.

 

 

Yes, it could be. You see, I'm in the denial and bargaining stages of grief ;)

[windsprints]

A lot can be twisted and change from the sides, especially this time of year when they purposely try to cover what is happening. You should reserve your grief for after the episode, you never know how exactly it will play out until it airs.