Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[DisneyBoy]

So I thought I would offer an update after all of your kind advice and patience. I finally ended up speaking with the family member who invited me and as feared, the explanation for why my senior was not also invited made little sense. They claimed that because other seniors were being invited, stress was added to the overall event to the point where inviting one more senior would cause another family member to want to withdraw from the event and not bring their elderly mother.

Again, since I would have been the one handling all arrangements for the senior I had hoped to bring, I don't see how their presence would have added any stress to anybody else's day, much less upset someone to the point of not wanting to bring their senior. FYI, these two seniors are friends and get along great and rarely see each other. In short it sounded like the organizer wanted to scapegoat this other family member into being the reason why my senior couldn't be invited. I could easily pick up the phone and call this other person and I'm sure I would get a different story, but I'm just over it at this point.

I think the bottom line is that the organizers of the event find it stressful enough already because they are coming in from out of town to reunite with family and would probably prefer not have to deal with any additional "old people" then absolutely necessary. The organizer even told me in these exact words "there are too many old people coming".

The whole thing turns my stomach because, again, this baptism is purely for show and almost certainly done to please said older people who should still count as members of the family even if it's a bit more difficult for them to get around.

I don't think the intentional exclusion of my senior is an expression of anger towards them as much as it is about generally not wanting any more "complications" at the event.

I said I would try to attend the church ceremony only if I was able (I'm presently fighting a cold and my senior is also under the weather.) The conversation was polite so I held back on speaking my mind and calling out the silliness of this whole business but my feelings remain the same.

I guess we should all enjoy our families because once we cross a certain age threshold they'll just want nothing to do with us.

And in case you are wondering, yes, a horde of little children will be present. None of them are considered problematic of course.

[ari333]

3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

So I thought I would offer an update after all of your kind advice and patience. I finally ended up speaking with the family member who invited me and as feared, the explanation for why my senior was not also invited made little sense. They claimed that because other seniors were being invited, stress was added to the overall event to the point where inviting one more senior would cause another family member to want to withdraw from the event and not bring their elderly mother.

Again, since I would have been the one handling all arrangements for the senior I had hoped to bring, I don't see how their presence would have added any stress to anybody else's day, much less upset someone to the point of not wanting to bring their senior. FYI, these two seniors are friends and get along great and rarely see each other. In short it sounded like the organizer wanted to scapegoat this other family member into being the reason why my senior couldn't be invited. I could easily pick up the phone and call this other person and I'm sure I would get a different story, but I'm just over it at this point.

I think the bottom line is that the organizers of the event find it stressful enough already because they are coming in from out of town to reunite with family and would probably prefer not have to deal with any additional "old people" then absolutely necessary. The organizer even told me in these exact words "there are too many old people coming".

The whole thing turns my stomach because, again, this baptism is purely for show and almost certainly done to please said older people who should still count as members of the family even if it's a bit more difficult for them to get around.

I don't think the intentional exclusion of my senior is an expression of anger towards them as much as it is about generally not wanting any more "complications" at the event.

I said I would try to attend the church ceremony only if I was able (I'm presently fighting a cold and my senior is also under the weather.) The conversation was polite so I held back on speaking my mind and calling out the silliness of this whole business but my feelings remain the same.

I guess we should all enjoy our families because once we cross a certain age threshold they'll just want nothing to do with us.

And in case you are wondering, yes, a horde of little children will be present. None of them are considered problematic of course.

I don't get it either. If there are already many old people, what's one more? SMH

So they think the elderly mother and your senior will duke it out in church if they're both present?

[DeLurker]

4 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I guess we should all enjoy our families because once we cross a certain age threshold they'll just want nothing to do with us.

I hate to see such a cynical comment from someone who is normally not so.  

You seem to have a good heart and an appreciation for the friendship of people of all ages.   Embrace those who you enjoy spending time with - I can assure you that that will be remembered more fondly than inclusion in an "event" for show.

Edited March 20, 2017 by DeLurker

[BookWoman56]

@DisneyBoy, given that "your" senior is being excluded from this event, is it possible for you to arrange an outing for your senior at a later date, possibly to include other family members that may not get to see each other often? Let the focus be on them spending some time in a relaxed setting to enjoy each other's company and catch up with each other, rather than sitting through an event that is purely put on for show. Even if it's only you and your senior, some time together without the pressure of a crowd and so forth could be a welcome change.

[Petunia13]

That sucks @riley702

[theredhead77]

My mom is an extreme procrastinator and my dad has severe anxiety which causes him to stock up on random shit. 

It's always irritated the shit out of me but now it's impacting my life. I use my Amazon Prime account to buy (on their card) and ship to their house. For some reason my dad is having me buy them printer toner every other month. I have no idea what they could possibly be printing to go through toner that fast. But when the toner doesn't work, it's pretty far past the Amazon return policy yet they expect me to drop everything and get them a refund.

The proverbial final (but not) straw is  my mom telling me two months ago something she bought in Jan was broken. It was right around the 30 days. I asked her for details, I emailed her for details, nothing. A couple weeks ago she's bitching up a storm beacase she's out $20, why haven't I talked to Amazon. I reminded her that I did need details that she never provided. I finally got them, "tried" to get the refund, was told she needed to call the manufacturer because it's so far beyond the 30 day return policy. A week goes by before she does anything with that, then says they are useless, I need to go back to Amazon. So I finally get a chance to do it, and Amazon is issuing a "one time exception" for the refund if they return the product.

Any bets on how long it will take my mom to return the broken item?

They offered to split the Prime fee with me when it came up for renewal but ended up paying for the whole thing. I've suggested they get their own membership but I meet resistance. Grrrr.

[DisneyBoy]

If it is any consolation, I am the worst when it comes to 30 day return policies. I can pretty much guarantee you that it's only after 30 days have passed that I try to get something resolved. And those raincheck slips that you sometimes get at the grocery store? I always have some on my fridge from six months prior. Sometimes I even try to redeem them (oh the shame!)

Quote

I hate to see such a cynical comment from someone who is normally not so.  

...honestly? Your post choked me up.

Things have really changed in my life since I started noticing how easily this person was forgotten by people they've been nothing but nice to. I've lost a lot of faith in people. I'm trying not to be bitter or jaded. You are exactly right about it not being worth the effort to keep up appearances for show. I'm trying instead to appreciate the real happiness I can bring to them one-on-one. Its hard, knowing others are deliberately keeping their distance or don't see this wonderful person as a priority.

I think you have to be really lucky to end up in your golden years surrounded by people who still want you in their lives and value you. I used to assume that's what everybody had because that's what families are for, right? They're a guarantee of some sort. It's a childish way to view things but I believed it. Hard to readjust. Seeing things as they are instead of how we would want them to be.

By the time we grow old we really aren't in a position to remake our families. They are who they are and finding new friends is almost an impossibility. I suppose I never really believed that people died alone and now I understand that that's what typically happens.

 

I'm going to see if by attending this event I might be able to speak with the other seniors and see if they're interested in a rendezvous with "my" senior at a later date. I might change my mind come the day of, though, and skip it.

Thanks again all.

Edited March 21, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[Petunia13]

@theredhead77 I print way more than the average person at work (100s of documents and many signs and tags a day for a supermarket) and go through a toner cartridge maybe every 2 or 3 months. So you aren't off base in questioning this. 

I have a family question about reconnecting w estranged family members whether it's a good idea. 

[theredhead77]

2 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

@theredhead77 I print way more than the average person at work (100s of documents and many signs and tags a day for a supermarket) and go through a toner cartridge maybe every 2 or 3 months. So you aren't off base in questioning this. 

I have a family question about reconnecting w estranged family members whether it's a good idea. 

I think they're buying shitty off-brand toner.

What's your question about your family and how estranged are you? Good idea or not is up to you and your circumstances.

[Petunia13]

Well I mean I don't know the full story also I think it'll piss off other people aka my mom and I wonder if it will make problems in my life. But I could be wrong about it leading to problems for me. It's a relative who went to prison for multiple things including a drive by shooting. 

[BookWoman56]

13 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

I have a family question about reconnecting w estranged family members whether it's a good idea. 

@Petunia13 not sure if your question was directed at anyone in particular, but I'll jump in anyway with a non-definitive answer: It depends. I've had mixed results. I have reconnected with an estranged family member (a niece) that I had kicked out of my home for various good reasons. She finally got her act together and now when I visit my sister, I will give my niece a call because she lives in the same town and generally we try to see each other. OTOH, I tried reconnecting a couple of years ago with an estranged family member only to remember all too clearly why we were estranged. Same behavior patterns, same reaction on my part: This is not someone I want in my life. 

I don't know what the situation is with your estranged family members, but I'd say give it a shot and see how it goes, but within a fairly limited time. That is, sure, it would probably be okay to spend a couple of hours with these people at a family reunion type of get-together. Spending an entire day or more is probably pushing it until you can determine if they should stay estranged or not.

ETA: Now having seen your situation, I can share that a friend reconnected with a family member who was in prison for murder, and spent a good bit of time with him before he was executed for that murder. My friend doesn't regret it, because it gave the family member a chance to talk to someone who actually cared about him. In this case, I don't think there's any harm in seeing this person at least once, and figuring out for yourself if he/she is someone you want to spend time with. Just don't go in with major expectations that this person has completely reformed or anything, because there's no way to predict how the prison experience will affect an individual.

Edited March 22, 2017 by BookWoman56

[Sandman87]

33 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I think they're buying shitty off-brand toner.

Just out of curiosity, are they just using it up really fast, or do they need to reprint things several times to get a "good" copy? You've activated my inner tech-support geek.

[DeLurker]

@Petunia13 - is he still in prison?  And is he estranged from everyone or just some of the family?

[theredhead77]

17 minutes ago, Sandman87 said:

Just out of curiosity, are they just using it up really fast, or do they need to reprint things several times to get a "good" copy? You've activated my inner tech-support geek.

I have no idea. They aren't printing anything that would require a good copy. My dad is tech savvy adjacent and I'm certain he would have asked for my opinion (I'm former tech support) before running off to best buy to buy a new printer before I could respond. He has a printer attached to his computer, my mom has one attached to hers and her laptop can also print to his printer. Yes, it is as rediculious as it sounds.  

[Petunia13]

12 hours ago, DeLurker said:

@Petunia13 - is he still in prison?  And is he estranged from everyone or just some of the family?

Out. And estranged from everyone. 

I'm going to keep track of how long my toner lasts. Besides all my printing, other people print from my printer when I'm in the store or at home. Also, I seem to remember when I worked at a law firm doing bajillion documents and secretarial the cartridges lasting me about 3 months. 

[DisneyBoy]

I would say give the person a chance, and remember that they can't hurt you unless you allow them too. You can control the context of your relationship. It can be a coffee once a month, or more or less. See how you feel and remember people aren't always what others say about them. This could be someone decent. Just try to figure out if they have motives in connecting with you. If you feel comfortable answering, why do you feel compelled to reach out to them? Examining your own motivations will help you suss out if this is a good idea or not.

[theredhead77]

@Petunia13 I think you should do what feels right to you. Sometimes there are good reasons and sometimes there are reasons that should be left in the past.

Looking at my own family, I'm sure people would wonder why I refuse to talk to my elderly uncle, who is a "perfectly nice, witty, smart man". Well this "perfectly nice, witty, smart man" was a douche to me my entire life (there was no physical abuse or anything like that). 

To give you an idea about how much I cannot stand him, years ago he, his wife and daughters were coming to visit, and staying with my parents (where I also lived). I moved out. I didn't go stay with friends, I literally moved out.

When I went to my parents house criticized that I was making lunch for myself (they already ate, it wasn't that I was making lunch and saying FU to everyone else) and several times throughout their visit he made comments about what I was eating (my mom asked if I wanted to split a funnel cake at Knott's Berry Farm and he commented that I didn't need it and another time when we were at a family dinner I asked someone to pass a dish and he made a comment that didn't I think I had already had enough?

My dad, who rarely got involved in these sort of battles lit into my uncle for commenting about me making lunch, it is his (my dads) home, I am his child and I am an adult who can make lunch if I'm hungry. 

It should come to no ones surprise that both his daughters have eating disorders.

About 10 years ago my mom was visiting their home. She called me, I answered and it was my uncle, calling to apologize. I lit in to my mom for blindsiding me like that. These days, he's not in the greatest of health so I do make a point to ask my mom how he is doing. Because it's important to her. And I suppose if I ever get married I'd invite him (the alternative was hire a bouncer because he was not invited regardless of what my mom said). But fuck him, the damage he caused me and his kids is inexcusable and I will not have anything to do with him.

[Petunia13]

2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I would say give the person a chance, and remember that they can't hurt you unless you allow them too. You can control the context of your relationship. It can be a coffee once a month, or more or less. See how you feel and remember people aren't always what others say about them. This could be someone decent. Just try to figure out if they have motives in connecting with you. If you feel comfortable answering, why do you feel compelled to reach out to them? Examining your own motivations will help you suss out if this is a good idea or not.

They reached out to me on Facebook and guilt tripped me. I was an early account on there back when it was all people from the same few colleges and if you didn't know the person chances were they were related to or dated someone ya know. Now it's a huge monolith! But it was kinda neat back then, I digress.

@theredhead77 I think you are right in keeping your distance this man sounds very toxic and bitter. Sometimes people get satisfaction out of putting others down or always trying to come off as right or superior. I had a relative who did that to the point of compulsion literally to every person and situation. I was very close to her, put her on a pedestal and believed how great she was for years. When I was older I noticed and realized how mean and fake she was and the emptiness of her life. Then cut ties never looking back. She is old now and has health problems like your uncle @theredhead77 but I am not regretful since she reaps what she sows. Those people with superiority fixations and a nastiness personality don't need us I would guess since they're so great and having fun trashing others, right? She's another hot mess story. 

[DeLurker]

I agree with @DisneyBoy about looking at what is prompting you to have the thought of reconnecting.

It seems sad to say to be careful with this person, but I think it is fair to say that his time behind bars will have changed him.  I can't imagine it was a pleasant experience and he undoubtedly was exposed to people of much more violence.  I imagine trying to build a life post-prison is a tough road and some family support would be encouraging/appreciated, especially if that person is genuinely trying to transition into being a better person.

My ex is in prison for trying to kill me during a custody exchange.  His parental rights were severed.  But one of the conversations I have had to have with my children is if they communicate with his family or him (at some point in the future), they have to be very careful to limit their conversation to just be about them and what they are comfortable sharing about themselves.  They don't have the right to share information about me or even about each other without that person's explicit consent.  It is odd to think that you don't have the right to casually talk about your immediate family, but in our circumstance it would not be something I am comfortable with - not even in the most benign, general terms.  And I haven't thought of a good response to have at the ready if/when they are asked "How's your Mom?".

I say this only to give you something to think about if you do decide to make contact.  Clearly I don't know the whole back story, nor do I need to, but there may be reasons why others in the family would be upset or feel exposed should you answer normal ordinary questions. 

8 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

They reached out to me on Facebook and guilt tripped me

This popped up when I was writing my post.  If they guilt tripped you, I would be more cautious. 

[DisneyBoy]

Boy, he sounds fun. I guess he thought he was being sassy and a straight-shooter?

 

Maybe we should talk about people who are part of the family we made for ourselves by choice. Anyone develop a close relationship with a Big Brother/Big Sister? A teacher? A neighbor? A pen pal?

Edited March 22, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[Treehugger]

20 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Boy, he sounds fun. I guess he thought he was being sassy and a straight-shooter?

 

Maybe we should talk about people who are part of the family we made for ourselves by choice. Anyone develop a close relationship with a Big Brother/Big Sister? A teacher? A neighbor? A pen pal?

I haven't been on PTV for awhile and came back to so many sad family stories.  My heart goes to each and every one of you, and I'm sending crushing hugs through cyberspace.  It's a rough world, and it's even tougher when those we should be able to love have actually hurt us.

I consider this board a part of my family even if I don't post very often.  I enjoy the theater updates, general chit chat, well, just about everything.  And the caring that I see for others just makes me feel better about life in general.  So I would have to say that I consider you my cyber family and appreciate that you're there for me when I need to lurk in the background.  I'm an extreme introvert, even on line!

And one of my of good friends has become my sister by choice.  We went through similar family difficulties after the deaths of our parents, and our friendship has turned us into family.

Thank you for being such a supportive group.

[ari333]

2 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

@Petunia13 I think you should do what feels right to you. Sometimes there are good reasons and sometimes there are reasons that should be left in the past.

Looking at my own family, I'm sure people would wonder why I refuse to talk to my elderly uncle, who is a "perfectly nice, witty, smart man". Well this "perfectly nice, witty, smart man" was a douche to me my entire life (there was no physical abuse or anything like that). 

To give you an idea about how much I cannot stand him, years ago he, his wife and daughters were coming to visit, and staying with my parents (where I also lived). I moved out. I didn't go stay with friends, I literally moved out.

When I went to my parents house criticized that I was making lunch for myself (they already ate, it wasn't that I was making lunch and saying FU to everyone else) and several times throughout their visit he made comments about what I was eating (my mom asked if I wanted to split a funnel cake at Knott's Berry Farm and he commented that I didn't need it and another time when we were at a family dinner I asked someone to pass a dish and he made a comment that didn't I think I had already had enough?

My dad, who rarely got involved in these sort of battles lit into my uncle for commenting about me making lunch, it is his (my dads) home, I am his child and I am an adult who can make lunch if I'm hungry. 

It should come to no ones surprise that both his daughters have eating disorders.

About 10 years ago my mom was visiting their home. She called me, I answered and it was my uncle, calling to apologize. I lit in to my mom for blindsiding me like that. These days, he's not in the greatest of health so I do make a point to ask my mom how he is doing. Because it's important to her. And I suppose if I ever get married I'd invite him (the alternative was hire a bouncer because he was not invited regardless of what my mom said). But fuck him, the damage he caused me and his kids is inexcusable and I will not have anything to do with him.

Holy shit we are related. Bless your heart. I feel you.

Been there. Done that. Got the fucking tshirt.

ANd some of those words you used in  your post were exactly what was said to me....as an adult . Yikes.

At least you got an apology. And your dad defended you, his daughter, in his own home . . I never got anything close to that.

[theredhead77]

3 hours ago, ari333 said:

At least you got an apology. And your dad defended you, his daughter, in his own home . . I never got anything close to that.

First and ONLY time he's ever gone to bat for me. Apparently my mom had some words with him too (I learned about way after the fact). Again, first and ONLY time I've ever known my mom to go to bat for me. I think the only reason I found out about my mom going to bat is because I left a message on their answering machine in hysterical tears about how could they let him treat me like that, I'm their daughter, why are his feelings more important than mine.

Don't think I sat there quietly either (the incident in my parents house) but the incident in the restaurant I pushed the food away, head down, eyes down and just sat there the rest of the meal, humiliated. That was over 15 years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

At this point in life, he's in his 80s and is not in good health. It's important to my mom (it's her brother) so I do make an effort to ask about him, for her. I don't give two shits.

[ari333]

4 hours ago, Treehugger said:

I haven't been on PTV for awhile and came back to so many sad family stories.  My heart goes to each and every one of you, and I'm sending crushing hugs through cyberspace.  It's a rough world, and it's even tougher when those we should be able to love have actually hurt us.

I consider this board a part of my family even if I don't post very often.  I enjoy the theater updates, general chit chat, well, just about everything.  And the caring that I see for others just makes me feel better about life in general.  So I would have to say that I consider you my cyber family and appreciate that you're there for me when I need to lurk in the background.  I'm an extreme introvert, even on line!

And one of my of good friends has become my sister by choice.  We went through similar family difficulties after the deaths of our parents, and our friendship has turned us into family.

Thank you for being such a supportive group.

THIS ^^^^^^^

[theredhead77]

6 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

They reached out to me on Facebook and guilt tripped me.

No. They did something horrible, their family [probably] rightfully chose to disassociate with them and now they're trying to guilt trip you?

[backformore]

for all of you -  dogs - because people suck

[ari333]

I hate the guilt trip bullshit. I hate it so much.

[DeLurker]

Well, I have a 16 YO daughter crying extremely hard right now.  In general she is a good kid, gets good grades, and is doing a decent job at growing up under some weird ass family history.  She's in all honors classes and is capable of making As in them without any real effort on her part; however, making decent grades requires doing her homework which has been a challenge in the last year.  She's not overloaded with homework, doesn't have major time commitments most afternoons/evenings/weekends, ...so she is pretty much making the choice not to do the homework. 

The only activity she is very involved in is Japanese Club.  She was asked to participate in Japan Bowl which is in the beginning of April where kids from around the country go to DC and compete in a variety of Japan related contests - language, culture, history and geography.  So Japanese Club and Japan Bowl are the carrot and/or the stick used for ensuring she keeps her grades up.    I've been very clear - she needs to do her work, get good grades (at least Bs since that really doesn't require a lot of effort on her part) and take initiative to going to see any teacher if there is an assignment she is struggling with (all the teachers keep open hours a couple of days a week before and/or after school to be available to give extra guidance).  If she doesn't, J Club and/or Japan Bowl will be yanked (depending on the severity of the situation).

Today she was supposed to go to a J Club event at another local high school, but when I got an update showing a 0 on a daily assignment, I sent/texted her a copy of that and told her she needed to come home straight after school rather than go to the J Club event. 

Which isn't something I wanted to do, but felt I needed to stick to the terms I had laid out to her before.  Later she texted asking if she got it turned in, would I reconsider?  I said yes, if it is 100% complete and if she gets a 90% or above on it (since she'll only get 50% credit anyway since it will be a day late).  She turned it in, but only got 83% which will be a 41.5% score after the late turn in ding.

So she is home, miserable, scared of losing the DC trip, and is completely aware that she had control over the outcome - first by doing her homework as she is supposed to and second by meeting the terms set for reversing today's decision.  I felt miserable pulling today's after school event, but also frustrated with my general good kid doing this to herself.  Watching her dissolve into tears (that she has been fighting all day because who wants to be the high school kid walking around crying) is so hard to do.  We talked for a little bit - while she is probably angry at me, she also knows that I laid out terms of what is acceptable very clearly quite a while back and I was willing to give her a reprieve today if she met my terms.  I try to be very careful not to be overly rigid or indifferent because I can remember being that age and how I felt when my parents said perfectly obvious things...

[Bastet]

Sounds like she's already in the middle of learning a valuable lesson, and will get her butt in gear to make sure she doesn't lose the trip.  Good for her, and good for you.

[JTMacc99]

Just now, Bastet said:

Good for her, and good for you.

Agreed, it sounds like some really good parenting.

[DeLurker]

Thanks guys - it is pretty easy to rationalize backing down from a "rule" because I know she is a good kid and being a hard ass doesn't come natural to me.  I spent my formative years surrounded by people with either Spock logic or hellions.  Spock logic did not sit well with me when I was a teenager, but nor did the hellion approach.  Given there are hellions in the gene pool, I was calculating the probability* that she might decide to go to the J Club event today anyway (which is the decision 50% of my brothers would have made in her shoes) and then I would need to pull J Bowl if she did. 

*I was thinking that the probability was low, but it wasn't zero. 

[Quof]

Quote

Thanks guys - it is pretty easy to rationalize backing down from a "rule" because I know she is a good kid and being a hard ass doesn't come natural to me. 

I was once in a casual restaurant (not fast food, but not a place one would expect to be quiet).  At the next table, a boy of about 10 had done something to lose his phone privileges.  He kept whining "But dad, it's not fair. But dad...."   He was a bit loud, but not annoyingly so.  The other patrons were all more interested in listening to dad.  "Sorry, buddy.  You messed up. You knew the rules...."    The boy kept whining, dad kept calmly repeating the verdict.  He wasn't embarrassed, and he wasn't backing down.  Every once in a while, another diner would catch his eye and give him a thumbs up.   Go, dad.  

Edited March 24, 2017 by Quof

[backformore]

Yeah I had a rule with my kids that once the punishment is handed down, they had ONE chance to persuade me.  But they had to present a persuasive argument.  Whining was not accepted.   And neither was " but my brother did worse and he didn't get punished".

But continued whining could mean a longer punishment.  

[Petunia13]

@DeLurker I love you to death but I would have caved. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means that you're stronger and that is more than I can do. There is a too soft and sensitive stance in life and with family and I def am of that, where someone is too up in not making waves or afraid. I admire you are kind while standing behind principles. 

[DeLurker]

Thanks again - normally things go pretty smoothly with the kids, so I am not sure who feels worse when I need to stand firm.

1 hour ago, backformore said:

Yeah I had a rule with my kids that once the punishment is handed down, they had ONE chance to persuade me

That's a good one.  I'll have to remember that.

I am not a fan of whining and their dad was the sort to pester you until you caved just to shut him up, so when they were young I made sure to set the ground rules for Mom.  They could ask me something once and I would answer yes, no or I'll think about it.  "I'll think about it" would automatically turn into a no if they asked me about it again.  That rule has served me well.

Edited March 24, 2017 by DeLurker
Because there does not equal their

[AgentRXS]

Ok need some advice. It's been weighing heavily on my heart all day and I'm trying to sort out what to do. Sorry if this turns out to be a really long post. I'll try my best to summarize.  Fair warning, it will read like a soap opera script, but hey, it is what it is.

Growing up, I alternated between living with my mom and her various boyfriends and living with my grandmother and uncle, who was single at the time. In 1999, my uncle met my future aunt on line. We lived in Miami; she lived in Tampa. Once they decided they were pretty serious, my uncle moved my grandmother and I up to live with them to give me a chance to go to a better school (I was 16 at the time). His intention was that we would stay for a few months with them until my grandmother (and I) got a place of our own.

Once we moved up there, my grandmother kept stalling on finding her own place and she and my uncle had a huge falling out. He kicked her out and I ended up staying so I could finish the school year up there. My grandmother moved into a senior housing in another city.  Not long after my grandmother left, my uncle fell on hard financial times, and couldn't afford to take care of me.  I forced to move in with my now-aunt's father.  I had a falling out with her father (he was attempting to molest me and I stood up for myself---when I told my uncle, he took her families side, all because her father got a notarized statement that I came on to him....wtf?) and at that point was forced to move back to Miami with my mother. At the time my Aunt was pregnant with my cousin.

Fast forward to 2007. By this time, my aunt and uncle are separated. He came home one day to find her things gone, and was left a note that she found someone new. She left with the kids on a trip to another state to meet her new beau (whom she also met online--and yes, she was that flaky to bring her kids along). She barred my uncle from seeing/talking his son. In August of that year, my uncle died suddenly of a heart attack.  All these years since,  my grandmother and I would often ponder about my cousin and how he turned out, and how to make contact with him.

Present day: My now 90 year old grandmother (who doesn't even own a computer) has been asking me to see what I can find online about him.  For some reason, my former Aunt never changed her last name, and I was able to find her on FB. Through a bit of sleuthing/stalking  through her various family members pages, I was able to find my now-17 year old cousin's FB page. Apparently,sometime within the last 10 years, her sister and brother-in-law adopted/took formal custody of him and his legal last name is theirs, and not my uncles. He appears happy and well taken care of. I informed my grandmother of this, and now of course, she wants me to reach out to him on FB.

I feel apprehensive about this, given my history with her side of the family. I share the same last name of my uncle and I have no idea if his son was raised to hate our side of the family or not (likely so).  I do not want to invite negativity into my life from these people. On the other hand, given my grandmother's age and insistence, I feel terrible dangling the carrot in her face so to speak.

So given all this history, should I try to reach out to him for her sake or not?

Edited March 31, 2017 by AgentRXS

[DeLurker]

He's still a  minor and that might be a lot for a 17 yo to digest.

I'd contact his aunt & uncle he is living with. Given your grandma's advancing age, tell them   she would very much like to get to know him or at least hear about him through them.

i would also offer to provide as much medical history on his father as you and grandma can.  Family medical history is important and it sounds like your uncle died from a heart attach early.

Hooe it works out.

[theredhead77]

I am the only child of aging parents who aren't in great health. When my mom goes out of town it's on me to go out to dinner with my dad a few times a week, call him nightly, etc... My dad has unmanaged anxiety and I just can't deal. Anyway, I've had a couple opportunities to apply for a promotion at work but they are out of the state. Every time I bring it up to my mom she tells me I should do what I want and reminds me that my dad will flip. Thanks, mom.

Both my parents moved to CA in their 20s. My dad moved with his family, my mom moved on her own. Both opportunities involved moving to the land of snow so I always blow it off as that (and this one would be moving where I know no one, which I don't think would be good for me). But on the flip side, I feel like I'm anchored here and now it's impacting my career (also, see dating thread, I feel I would have better opportunities if I get out of CA).

They've always squashed the idea of me moving. I was looking for jobs out of state for a long time but it always came down to my dad's anxiety kicking in to overdrive and my mom guilting me out of it.

I'm about to turn 40, I should be able to do what I want with my life.

[DeLurker]

@theredhead77 - if the thought of moving out of the area to advance your career or to just change your environment appeals to you, don't let guilt be the factor that stops you from even applying for the position.  Chances are if the office gives you serious consideration, a site visit would be/could be arranged so you have a better chance to determine if the position is a good fit for you and them.  This would give you a chance to take a look around and evaluate if this new city has more opportunities for you than the current.  There's no guarantee that you would get it and even if you did, you could ultimately turn it down.

I know that being an only child creates a sense of responsibility, but you did not ask to be an only child - it was a decision your parents made.  Your Mom may have to alter her comings-and-goings if you are out of the area.  And maybe Dad needs some treatment for his anxiety issues - therapy, pharmaceutical or both.

I know it is hard to be in your shoes, but if things continue on the current road, might you begin to resent your parents?  I think curbing that curiosity and exploration of your own life is a lot to give up. 

Apologies if this comes out as harsh - it isn't meant to be.

Edited March 31, 2017 by DeLurker
Oops! A DeVos spelling of apologies! Sorry!

[theredhead77]

@DeLurker - My head knows what you say to be true, and it's not the first time I've heard it. My heart says otherwise. My dad is going to be 78, he's not in good health and there is no way he will seek more therapy or more medication than he already takes (which doesn't do shit).

I also know, relocating to where I don't know a single person, especially where there will be a bit of a culture shock (going from CA to the mid-west), will not be good for me. There will be other opportunities and I do need to look into them. Nowhere I move to will be as amazing as where I live now, where I grew up and it's unlikely I'd ever be able to afford to come back. That's a hard reality to face.

[AgentRXS]

@stewedsquash My grandmother is generally a good person. During the mid-90s to early 2000s, she had a bit of a drinking problem, which I think contributed to her and my uncle's fight. She sobered up immediately after. 

Immediately after my uncle died, my grandmother was given the last known number for my Aunt, to try to reach out to his son. It was disconnected. At some point, she spoke to my Aunt's mother who claimed not being on speaking terms with her daughter at the time, and claimed to not have any information on her daughter's whereabouts.  So she did try to reach out on her own and a brick wall was put up.

Prior to posting,  my feeling on the situation was the same as the feedback I'm getting here. I did not want to contact him directly as he is still a minor and didn't want to shake up his world. I do not feel comfortable contacting anyone on her side of the family for any reason.  I told my grandmother that I would be waiting until  he was 18 to contact him directly, and that knowing he was alive and doing well would have to be enough for now.   I told her that if she really serious about making contact with him, to use that as a motivation to take some computer courses at her facility , and ask her instructor to teach her about maneuvering FB just enough so she could contact him herself. Or have one of her friend's grandchildren help her out with contacting him or them on FB . (That came out harsher when typed.) She was disappointed and sort of guilt-tripped me with the age thing, which prompted me to ask for advice.

I had a tough childhood/teenage life and I've worked hard to heal wounds. I just can't bring myself to contact them and get wrapped up in the past again, even though all that went down almost 20 years ago.  Its already hard enough that he's practically the spitting image of my uncle.  Just looking at his photos was emotional enough for me.

Edited April 1, 2017 by AgentRXS

[Petunia13]

@AgentRXS I think you should reach out. I know there's bad blood and history with that side but he's a kid and might not know about that drama or give a fuck about the past. 

[ari333]

He's almost 18. I vote for wait til then. If he were 12 or 13 and grandmother is getting elderly and may not live, maybe I'd re-think it or have someone else intervene/help before age 18. IMo, he's almost there, so wait. But I am biased bc part of my family is crazy. And I mean crazy.

Here's one: My parents called me. Left several messages for me to call back. I did call back. (MISTAKE) 

They called the police - THE FUCKING POLICE - and said I was "harassing" them.  ... I called the cops and said, "welp, I was returning phone calls and messages asking me  to call them. " The person I was speaking to at the police station  talked to me like I was nuts bc - well it DID sounds nuts.

NOw I keep all messages from them requesting that I call if I plan to even return a call. Shit. At the time my guesss was that I was  pretty sure it is my mother behind this, but my father allows it to happen bc he is scared of her (and frankly,  I don't blame him for it.)

I finally got it out of my father why that happened. He said, "well your mother was mad bc you didn't show up for Christmas and she wanted to 'get you back.' " Oh... you mean when I had a miscarriage and didnt' feel like celebrating? Yeah, that one.

And yes, my mother knew about the miscarriage, but I  was supposed to show up and eat and laugh and sing like nothing had happened. Couldn't do it. I was physically sick and emotionally devastated, as you can imagine. But she had to get me back" and "make me pay." for not showing up to a fucking dinner.... by calling the cops on  me for a clearly bogus reason.  

Sometimes I wondered if it were my dad behind this bullshit. But then one time he invited me to their home. I showed up, pulled into the driveway. He came running out of the carport and basically stopped me from going inside. "Well, it was nice to see you. Thanks for coming ." WHAT?  I got the strong impression at that moment that my mother had instructed him not to let me inside. So I quietly left. I am shy and quiet and gentle. So I just left... perplexed. I did ask why I couldn't come inside and visit with him (since he invited me). He said, "well this is not a good time." (um you just invited me 20 mintues ago by phone.) Oh never mind. See you. I hugged him and left.

Edited April 1, 2017 by ari333

[DeLurker]

@theredhead77 - nothing is every as easy as it seems, huh?  Well, be open to new opportunities and don't let the family circumstances cut you off from even evaluating them.  It may be a while before you are ready to take the next step, but that is ok.

@AgentRXS - I still say reach out through his guardians.  Maybe include what you can about his father's relevant medical history and provide contact information to be given to him if he ever asks.  Request a current picture so that his grandmother can see as she is getting on.  It sounds like she isn't shy about using this to guilt trip you, but given his age I really think that more concern should be allowed for him.  He is almost 18, legally an adult, but we don't magically mature because we pass a milestone.  At least I didn't.

@ari333 - just wow.  That sounds so spiteful, not to mention a complete waste of police resources.  I say next time they want you to visit insist, on meeting at a convenient restaurant or diner if you feel inclined to do it at all.  This doesn't seem to be about you - it seems like there is something wrong with your Mom.  There's a screw loose somewhere there.  And whatever complicated relationship there is between your Dad and her, he's complicit in these things.  Truly sorry.  And a bit enraged on your behalf.

[BookWoman56]

@AgentRXS , I would also recommend reaching out to the guardians, but in a pretty matter-of-fact way. As @DeLurker suggested, provide relevant medical history about your father; simply state that you are reaching out because of your grandmother's wish but have no desire to invade anyone's privacy.  I have limited experience with this sort of situation; the only thing comparable is that years ago, two half-siblings contacted my ex. They had both been given up for adoption by my then MIL, who had dealt with some serious mental illness from a fairly early age. Both the half-siblings had different fathers and were unaware that the other existed. One of them was all "oh, let's be instant family, and I want to meet my birth mother this minute," while the other was 95% interested only because she wanted family medical history, and the other 5% was just curiosity. I felt much more comfortable with her because she wasn't trying to insert herself into our lives; she simply wanted information because of some medical issues she was having. Obviously, there's no way to predict how the guardians will react, but if there are still hostile or somewhat negative feelings after all these years, it might be easier for them to accept an initial offer of information rather than a request to meet the cousin. Given his age, if I were his guardian, I'd probably ask him if he would be willing to meet his grandmother at least once. From your perspective, there's the possibility that (1) the guardians will refuse any contact, (2) the cousin may meet with you and his grandmother and all of you hit it off, or (3) you all meet so that your grandmother gets that urge out of her system, and then there is minimal contact because you and your cousin grew up with no interaction and have nothing in common except some shared genes.  I don't have any idea what your cousin was told as he was growing up, but it might be a relief in some ways for him to know that you and your grandmother are strangers to him not because you rejected him, but because of the weird situation. 

[ari333]

2 hours ago, DeLurker said:

@theredhead77 - nothing is every as easy as it seems, huh?  Well, be open to new opportunities and don't let the family circumstances cut you off from even evaluating them.  It may be a while before you are ready to take the next step, but that is ok.

@AgentRXS - I still say reach out through his guardians.  Maybe include what you can about his father's relevant medical history and provide contact information to be given to him if he ever asks.  Request a current picture so that his grandmother can see as she is getting on.  It sounds like she isn't shy about using this to guilt trip you, but given his age I really think that more concern should be allowed for him.  He is almost 18, legally an adult, but we don't magically mature because we pass a milestone.  At least I didn't.

@ari333 - just wow.  That sounds so spiteful, not to mention a complete waste of police resources.  I say next time they want you to visit insist, on meeting at a convenient restaurant or diner if you feel inclined to do it at all.  This doesn't seem to be about you - it seems like there is something wrong with your Mom.  There's a screw loose somewhere there.  And whatever complicated relationship there is between your Dad and her, he's complicit in these things.  Truly sorry.  And a bit enraged on your behalf.

Agree on all the above advice and thank you for the kind words. Spiteful is exactly it AND a waste of police resources. Plus, I sounded like a nut trying to defend myself.

She "went to the  trouble to prepare dinner" and "decorated the tree by herself" (guilt) bc that was usually on me as my brother had no part of it. No one else showed up btw and she can't ask herself why? She criticizes and scrutinizes every detail of peoples' lives. It is brutal.

Sorry. I'm on a rant. My cousin had a "late" pregnancy and it was difficult. The delivery was difficult as well. My mother called me from the hospital and all she said was, "all the nurses can talk about is her weight. She's so overweight. That's why she is having problems." Well, her  her age was one thing. And maybe her weight, but damn was that really the time to rag on her? And it seems unethical and untrue that her weight was "all" the nurses could talk about.

My oldest aunt on my mother's side was .... IDK the words. scary. and so weird. I mean scary weird. The middle sister less so, but she ended up in a mental place in her old age/last days. . The oldest aunt died young-ish or she would have been there too, I'm guessing. I have often wondered where they got these weird beliefs?

It is so weird I am hesitant to even write it here. It's pretty fucked up. It is all about revenge and vindictiveness and ... IDK the words. Oh GRUDGE. They are big on the grudge like 20 years if there is a transgression or perceived transgression. "Make um pay." For what? Missing an invitation? Dating a man of my choosing who makes me happy? Living where I want to live? Having the career that **I** fucking choose?  ANd the other favorite was the silent treatment... not speaking to a person for days or not looking at the "guilty" person.  

My father can say some pretty weird shit too. Maybe they attracted each other with the weird.

At least my father could relate to people. When he retired they gave him a party and a watch etc. When my mother retired no one said shit. Literally nothing. Not even goodbye. I ran into a woman who used to be her friend/office associate and she told me . (This was the friend who got the silent treatment for not jogging on the beach when my mother said "let's go" )

Edited April 1, 2017 by ari333

[AgentRXS]

Quote

This last part is why you should just do a lot of ruminating over the whole thing. Give the kid time to grow up before things go sideways. Not that they necessarily will, but if you are in a good place now, just wait for a bit longer. You grandma will be fine. The suggestions you offered to her were reasonable. 

Going back a little, have you resolved your landlord/neighbor/lease thing?

 

Yeah, I am definitely going to give it a lot more thought.  My grandmother is just going to have to live with the fact of knowing he is ok for now, until I decide the time is right to contact him.

Re: the landlord thing. My lease is up in June and I haven't heard anything yet. She is starting to do some gardening renovations outside, which may mean she is trying to spruce up the place for new potential renters. I ran into her today and she was perfectly friendly (as always) but didn't mention anything one way or other. Whatever is meant to happen, will happen is my attitude. I did hire a maid and intend to keep her monthly.

[AgentRXS]

Also, to lighten the mood up a bit....this photo reminds me of every family photo I've ever taken. I, of course, am the cat. I have Resting Bitch Face so I hate being photographed because I always look so sour.

[Petunia13]

I wanted to follow up on my previous post. I did continue speaking to my ex-con family member on Facebook. We chatted nicely about tv, former coworkers, animals, coffee, daily about 2 weeks. I agreed under pressure and short notice to meet up for a late lunch and drinks. 

it did not go well. 

[riley702]

What happened?