Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[theredhead77]

@PRgalwhen my mom found a bunch of documents in Yiddish she contacted a local Jewish Community Center who got her in touch with a genealogy group who in turn was able to connect her with someone who could translate them.  A similar path might be worth a shot when things open up, up there.

[PRgal]

On 6/4/2021 at 8:30 PM, theredhead77 said:

@PRgalwhen my mom found a bunch of documents in Yiddish she contacted a local Jewish Community Center who got her in touch with a genealogy group who in turn was able to connect her with someone who could translate them.  A similar path might be worth a shot when things open up, up there.

Thanks.  And while that’s true, it may still be difficult to find information about the women in my family, since, well, women didn’t really matter back in the day.  But I suppose that’s the case for many cultures.  

[theredhead77]

30 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Thanks.  And while that’s true, it may still be difficult to find information about the women in my family, since, well, women didn’t really matter back in the day.  But I suppose that’s the case for many cultures.  

You never know what you'll find. I hope you can find someone to translate them for you!

[KittyMom4]

Hello - I need some advice or maybe just someone who understands.

I got remarried 2 years ago to a wonderful man*. He has an older brother and a younger sister. We are all in our 50's. My husband's brother has never been warm to me, as a matter of fact he has been pointedly rude on a couple of occasions but I have ignored it as I am at a point in my life where I no longer worry about what others feel about me, especially those who don't take the time to get to know me before deciding I'm not important to them. The brother is married and has a daughter who is getting married later this year. His wife and daughter have been friendly, but we are not besties and we do not communicate on a regular basis. We plan to attend the wedding and I am looking forward to it. 

Here's where I need help. I don't want to go to the bridal shower. And it's not because I don't like my husband's niece, I don't like showers, baby showers, bridal showers, it doesn't matter who or what  its for. I've had to do them for close friends and family's in my 20's/30's but I have zero desire to waste a Saturday afternoon watching someone open gifts while playing games guessing where the bride/groom's first date was. I have no problem sending a gift, I just don't want to be forced to smile and make small talk with strangers. I will know no one other than the bride, my stepdaughter. my sister-in-law and my husband's ex wife (we're friendly, nice lady). 

My husband has no problem with me not going, (he doesn't even want to go to the wedding), maybe if the brother was nicer to me I'd suck it up and show up in my party dress, but at this point I don't think it will make a difference.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Support?

*My husband and his brother are not close, rarely see each other. I've told him not to intervene with the brother's comments to me, again, I don't care. 

[MargeGunderson]

Send a gift, don’t attend, enjoy your Saturday afternoon!

[Mindthinkr]

11 minutes ago, BexKeps said:

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Support?

   I understand how you feel. Not knowing anyone would make me feel awkward. I would say “Sorry, but I have a previous engagement that day”. Sending a present would be kind, but that’s really up to you. When I have gone I’ve given modest gifts of a cookbook and I tie in wooden spoons on the bow. (I sometimes include a few family recipes to personalize it more).  Also the cookbook is easy to mail and doesn’t risk breakage. You never know what the future holds. I’d send the gift so it never can get thrown back in my face that I didn’t. 
   I’m sorry that you have been made to feel unwelcome by your husband’s brother. If he is that cold there is nothing you can do to make the relationship better. If it meant a lot to your husband I’m sure he would have taken his brother aside for a wee chat. Do what makes you feel most comfortable. Lots of people skip the endless showers and parties before weddings. Don’t feel guilty about it. Your feelings are valid. 

[PRgal]

@BexKeps:  Tell them you have something booked that day, even though it’s months away?  Conveniently book a weekend out of town?  
 

My mom issue:  OMG:  she’s so freaked out about the Delta variant that she’s, once again, telling me to “wait and see” about sending my son to in-person preschool.  I’m pretty sure all the staff will be fully vaccinated.  I really want her out of my child rearing but can’t get stop her.  She’s recking havoc on my mental health. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by PRgal

[Leeds]

37 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Send a gift, don’t attend, enjoy your Saturday afternoon!

I wouldn't even send a gift, but I would reply and wish her the best.

[KittyMom4]

32 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

   I’m sorry that you have been made to feel unwelcome by your husband’s brother. If he is that cold there is nothing you can do to make the relationship better. If it meant a lot to your husband I’m sure he would have taken his brother aside for a wee chat. Do what makes you feel most comfortable. Lots of people skip the endless showers and parties before weddings. Don’t feel guilty about it. Your feelings are valid

Thank you so much. My husband has no relationship with his brother that's why I don't care if he doesn't like me. I asked my husband what I did to make him so cold to me, my husband replied "He's a miserable person who hates to see anyone happy, especially me." I'm sure it's a competitive brother thing, I've never gone any deeper than that. 

38 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Send a gift, don’t attend, enjoy your Saturday afternoon!

 

38 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Tell them you have something booked that day, even though it’s months away?  Conveniently book a weekend out of town?  

Yes to both of these, I will be conveniently unavailable, but I will send a nice gift. I do like the niece. 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, BexKeps said:

Hello - I need some advice or maybe just someone who understands.

I got remarried 2 years ago to a wonderful man*. He has an older brother and a younger sister. We are all in our 50's. My husband's brother has never been warm to me, as a matter of fact he has been pointedly rude on a couple of occasions but I have ignored it as I am at a point in my life where I no longer worry about what others feel about me, especially those who don't take the time to get to know me before deciding I'm not important to them. The brother is married and has a daughter who is getting married later this year. His wife and daughter have been friendly, but we are not besties and we do not communicate on a regular basis. We plan to attend the wedding and I am looking forward to it. 

Here's where I need help. I don't want to go to the bridal shower. And it's not because I don't like my husband's niece, I don't like showers, baby showers, bridal showers, it doesn't matter who or what  its for. I've had to do them for close friends and family's in my 20's/30's but I have zero desire to waste a Saturday afternoon watching someone open gifts while playing games guessing where the bride/groom's first date was. I have no problem sending a gift, I just don't want to be forced to smile and make small talk with strangers. I will know no one other than the bride, my stepdaughter. my sister-in-law and my husband's ex wife (we're friendly, nice lady). 

My husband has no problem with me not going, (he doesn't even want to go to the wedding), maybe if the brother was nicer to me I'd suck it up and show up in my party dress, but at this point I don't think it will make a difference.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Support?

*My husband and his brother are not close, rarely see each other. I've told him not to intervene with the brother's comments to me, again, I don't care. 

I agree that any of the above are fine. 

However, despite all your convincing arguments above about why you do not want to go, the fact that you're asking hints that either

• there is some reason you might like to go 

or

• you are feeling guilty about not going -- perhaps just a habitual reaction from having said no to a lot of other showers given by people in your life who managed to make you feel guilty,
  and, if that's the case, it might help to keep in mind that the person giving the shower is not the recipient of the shower, so any guilt tripping is their problem. 

You mentioned that the brother's wife and daughter have been nice to you. If you think you would like to build a familial bridge there, and if you want to give bridal showers one more chance to prove to you that they aren't insufferable, go ahead and go. If it turns out to be as much of a waste of time as you expect, you will not be conflicted about saying no to any future shower invites (including the likely baby shower).

But if you do not go, I do think it would be nice to send a gift (nice ideas above, or a gift card) because there really is a psychological reality to the old adage about it being "better to give than to receive." 

But feel free not to send a gift.
Just a congratulatory card would be okay too.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, BexKeps said:

Yes to both of these, I will be conveniently unavailable, but I will send a nice gift. I do like the niece. 

I think that's best.  I hate showers, too, so only for certain relationships do I feel obligated to suck it up and go.  This isn't one of those relationships.  I don't even send gifts to wedding showers I decline to attend (since they'll get one for the wedding, and that's enough), but that's certainly a nice gesture and plenty of effort on your part.  (Sadly, most people care more about the gifts than the company anyway.)

[Jane Tuesday]

I actually love showers, and have given tons of them, but if you don't want to go, don't. I'm sure no one will think twice. If you want, you could send a gift card with regrets, but it's not necessary. :)

My shower-related peeve is how crappy most of them are these days. Like, zero effort. Renting a winery and opening gifts isn't a shower, sorry. I did a baby shower for someone at work, and everybody was going on and on complimenting it, which was nice, but it was so basic. Like, I had brought a mason jar, threw in some grocery store daisies, and sat it on a piece of burlap. And people couldn't believe I went to "so much trouble".  Okay....

Edited because I just realized this isn't the Pet Peeve thread, but most of the crappy showers were hosted by family, so... :D 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Jane Tuesday

[isalicat]

7 hours ago, PRgal said:

My mom issue:  OMG:  she’s so freaked out about the Delta variant that she’s, once again, telling me to “wait and see” about sending my son to in-person preschool.  I’m pretty sure all the staff will be fully vaccinated.  I really want her out of my child rearing but can’t get stop her.  She’s recking havoc on my mental health. 

If you truly want your mom out of *your child* rearing, then stiffen your spine and make it clear that it is *your child*, and she already had the joy and sorrow of raising her own children and your child is not her child. You can be very sweet about it, i.e. tell her how much her counsel is valued but that doesn't mean you are always going to take her advice. I would also emphasize how little risk there is to children even if they catch the Covid (any variant) and that the long term ill effects of keeping kids away from in-person school is now extremely well documented. I'm sure she doesn't want your son to fall further behind his peers in terms of socialization and learning, so there is that too...If none of this works, you will have to learn to cut her off by saying "Mom, we discussed this already and don't agree, so there is no point in discussing it further", and hang up the phone or walk out of the room.

[ginger90]

@BexKeps when faced with similar situations I think, will I regret going more than I’d regret not going.

My ex remarried quite a few years ago. We have 3 daughters. I presented them with this and 2 of the 3 attended the wedding, no regrets.

As an aside, they are now divorced.

Edited July 1, 2021 by ginger90

[PRgal]

15 hours ago, isalicat said:

If you truly want your mom out of *your child* rearing, then stiffen your spine and make it clear that it is *your child*, and she already had the joy and sorrow of raising her own children and your child is not her child. You can be very sweet about it, i.e. tell her how much her counsel is valued but that doesn't mean you are always going to take her advice. I would also emphasize how little risk there is to children even if they catch the Covid (any variant) and that the long term ill effects of keeping kids away from in-person school is now extremely well documented. I'm sure she doesn't want your son to fall further behind his peers in terms of socialization and learning, so there is that too...If none of this works, you will have to learn to cut her off by saying "Mom, we discussed this already and don't agree, so there is no point in discussing it further", and hang up the phone or walk out of the room.

It's hard.  I basically told her that I've spoken with the school and that they said they'll follow whatever regulations the Ontario government requires for schools.  So if schools need to close, then there's no school.  If they say schools can open, then PRtoddler will be going to school.  The sad part is mental health awareness and belief that mental health and physical health need to be weighted equally is still a foreign concept to many East Asian boomers.  The vaccination rate here is pretty good, considering the slow start we had, so even though PRtoddler isn't eligible for vaccines (yet), with enough adults around him vaccinated, then he should be okay.  I'm more concerned about my easily distracted guy running off on walks off campus!

[shapeshifter]

On 6/30/2021 at 11:26 AM, PRgal said:

My mom issue:  OMG:  she’s so freaked out about the Delta variant that she’s, once again, telling me to “wait and see” about sending my son to in-person preschool.  I’m pretty sure all the staff will be fully vaccinated.  I really want her out of my child rearing but can’t get stop her.  She’s recking havoc on my mental health.

As someone with adult kids and as someone who is older than many grandparents, I have sometimes felt I needed to warn my adult kids about stuff just so if it all went bad at least they wouldn't be asking me why I didn't warn them.
So maybe you could thank Mom for her opinion and tell her you'll think about it, and see if that at least calms her down for the moment --even if it doesn't stop her from bringing it up again tomorrow. 

Sadly, in spite of my somewhat hypervigilance as a parent, I failed to talk to them about a lot of important stuff. 
Maybe that's also why she's hyper-focused on the grandchild now.

But probably a lot of it is that she's just stuck in the worry rut, if you know what I mean.

[PRgal]

59 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

As someone with adult kids and as someone who is older than many grandparents, I have sometimes felt I needed to warn my adult kids about stuff just so if it all went bad at least they wouldn't be asking me why I didn't warn them.
So maybe you could thank Mom for her opinion and tell her you'll think about it, and see if that at least calms her down for the moment --even if it doesn't stop her from bringing it up again tomorrow. 

Sadly, in spite of my somewhat hypervigilance as a parent, I failed to talk to them about a lot of important stuff. 
Maybe that's also why she's hyper-focused on the grandchild now.

But probably a lot of it is that she's just stuck in the worry rut, if you know what I mean.

On the worry rut:  probably.  I think she got the worry gene from my grandmother.  I probably have it too, but my worry is more about my son’s expressively delayed diagnosis and how not seeing peers can affect his mental well-being.  
 

note:  my grandmother was probably the original helicopter mom.  She still took my mom to school when she was an undergrad. My mom had to tell her to sit away from her on the bus.  This was in the late 60s. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by PRgal

[isalicat]

29 minutes ago, PRgal said:

my worry is more about my son’s expressively delayed diagnosis and how not seeing peers can affect his mental well-being.  

PRGal: You mentioned this previously....and if I have it right, you said he is 2-1/2 (or maybe 3 by now?) and not talking in complete sentences or something? Can I reassure you about this? My son did not speak in complete sentences until he was about 5 or so and we actually had some testing done (first and foremost to make sure his hearing was fine, so it wasn't a physical disability). After he met with a couple of child psychologists then and later down the line, it became clear that he is one of a small minority of people (99% male, by the way) that thinks a little differently; specifically, he thinks in concepts, not in words, so he has to literally translate his thoughts into words and then get them out verbally - an extra step compared to the rest of us. This means he was way, way advanced in terms of spatial cognitive capabilities (may I guess your boy is good at putting puzzles together?) but it took quite a while for him to verbally communicate as fluently as his peers. And yes, being in school (always regular public school - we wanted him exposed to a wide variety of people and situations) helped as he was highly motivated to talk properly in order to deal with the other kids.

My son is now 30 and in a very successful legal career - he was a communications major in college with a minor in rhetoric, so clearly the early issues have been no impediment in the long run! So please don't worry but I do encourage you to take every opportunity for your son to socialize with other kids as much as possible, and worry less about the Covid. You can break the family cycle of over-worrying with the excellent motivation of doing what is best for your child.

[PRgal]

10 minutes ago, isalicat said:

PRGal: You mentioned this previously....and if I have it right, you said he is 2-1/2 (or maybe 3 by now?) and not talking in complete sentences or something? Can I reassure you about this? My son did not speak in complete sentences until he was about 5 or so and we actually had some testing done (first and foremost to make sure his hearing was fine, so it wasn't a physical disability). After he met with a couple of child psychologists then and later down the line, it became clear that he is one of a small minority of people (99% male, by the way) that thinks a little differently; specifically, he thinks in concepts, not in words, so he has to literally translate his thoughts into words and then get them out verbally - an extra step compared to the rest of us. This means he was way, way advanced in terms of spatial cognitive capabilities (may I guess your boy is good at putting puzzles together?) but it took quite a while for him to verbally communicate as fluently as his peers. And yes, being in school (always regular public school - we wanted him exposed to a wide variety of people and situations) helped as he was highly motivated to talk properly in order to deal with the other kids.

My son is now 30 and in a very successful legal career - he was a communications major in college with a minor in rhetoric, so clearly the early issues have been no impediment in the long run! So please don't worry but I do encourage you to take every opportunity for your son to socialize with other kids as much as possible, and worry less about the Covid. You can break the family cycle of over-worrying with the excellent motivation of doing what is best for your child.

Thanks so much! :)  Yes, he loves puzzles (and Duplo) and somehow thinks people can read his mind (he'll call our names and then doesn't say anything else, so we have to figure out what he wants).  Is this a spectrum thing (your son is 11-12 years younger than me, so there was more awareness on ASD by the time he was in school)?  His pediatrician doesn't seem to think that he's autistic and also said that it was too early to diagnose ADHD.  He knows letters (caps and some lower case), numbers, colours and shapes, and can say them if you ask him.  He just can't speak in sentences.  

ETA:  He'll be 3 in October

Edited July 1, 2021 by PRgal

[isalicat]

PRGal: Your boy is not even 3 years old and sounds super smart! My son was definitely not autistic nor did he have ADHD (he took after his dad in a heightened ability to concentrate on a task and do whatever it was to completion without being distracted....the both of them used to drive me nuts as they both refused to take a pause in doing something until it was *finished*!)

Please don't let anyone talk you into the whole ADHD diagnosis as it inevitably leads to highly suspect medication (this is a real problem with boys in our current school system, which emphasizes sitting still for far longer than is necessary or natural for a young male).

It really sounds like your son has two things going on: A great set of parents that are anticipating his needs so well he has not *had* to do more verbally to get what he wants, and perhaps, the same different style of cognition that characterizes my son which your boy will most certainly figure out how to deal with sooner than later. Children *all* develop at different rates and I think it is a little unfair to him and to yourself to think there is something "wrong" when he is still so young. I know as a very small child I was super, super talky (and was reading really well at age 2) so having a child of my own that was so completely different from myself was a bit challenging, but your kid is not a clone - he is his own person and should be celebrated as such. Enjoy! They grow up too damn fast!

 

[stewedsquash]

@PRgal @isalicat I am not going to intrude on this wonderful connection you two are making except to say that I hope you continue connecting, either here or privately because you are both on the right track with giving and accepting advice and knowledge regarding your children. And also, I was fortunate to have great pediatricians also who helped me navigate similar situations. Do yours look like mad scientists? Because my son's did, ha. 

No need to answer, because I really don't want to intrude on the conversation.

[WinnieWinkle]

reconsidered venting

Edited July 4, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Bastet]

Someone I love very much died this weekend, and it's the worst loss I've had to deal with in a while.  She was my best friend's mom, a good friend of my mom's, and like a second mom to me (she was a near-daily part of my childhood, and I was five when we met, so she's been part of my life for pretty much all of it I can remember).

I'm really upset about my own loss, and so damn helpless that my best friend is going through the worst thing that has ever happened to her and there is not one thing I can do to make it any less horrible.  She knows I love her, she knows I won't push (she doesn't want to talk yet, let alone see anyone, and I know I won't either when my turn in these shoes comes, so I understand on top of respecting her wishes), and she knows I'll be there to cry with her, distract her, sit quietly with her, whatever she needs whenever she's ready and for the rest of our lives.

I just wish I could do something tangible, no matter how little, to help her/the family not have to deal with daily life beyond what's necessary right now.  (I say daily life because I don't think there are many practical things to deal with specific to the death now - there will not be a funeral, and the memorial celebration was thoroughly planned in advance by the deceased and will not happen for a while.)  But only if it's an actual help, not an imposition (so, fundamentally, I'm not going to personally show up with anything when they just want to be left alone while they can't even breathe without crying).  While I don't want to push, I don't want to do the "let me know if there's something I can do" thing, either, because that puts the burden on her to ask.

I'd rather offer a few specific things and trust she'll have no problem saying "No thanks" or "Maybe later" if they're not useful.  I struggle to think what things would be unintrusively helpful to offer, though.  For those of you who've been through a death that absolutely knocked the stuffing out of you, was there anything someone sent, did, had done, etc. in the aftermath that was helpful?  Something you wish someone had offered to do while you were just trying to put one foot in front of the other?

[supposebly]

@Bastet, I'm so sorry for your loss. 

When it comes to things like that, my mind always goes to household chores and food. A stack of freezer meals, the offer to clean the house, mow the lawn, go grocery shopping, or find a service that will do these things if you don't think it will stress them out having a stranger puttering around the house.

[Bastet]

Thank you.  Prepared meals/groceries was my first thought, too (they already have a gardener and a housekeeper), but they'd never let me just drop it off and leave, yet they're not emotionally ready for me to come in and spend time, so me showing up with anything is the kind of thing that would be imposing on them more than actually helping.  I'll have to look into what I could have delivered (they're not even an hour away from me, but there are fewer options in their area). 

On the other hand, I think most people's first thought is food, so I'd kind of like to offer something different now, and then bring/send them food later, when most people have moved on but they still don't feel like preparing meals.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Someone I love very much died this weekend, and it's the worst loss I've had to deal with in a while.  She was my best friend's mom, a good friend of my mom's, and like a second mom to me (she was a near-daily part of my childhood, and I was five when we met, so she's been part of my life for pretty much all of it I can remember).

I'm really upset about my own loss, and so damn helpless that my best friend is going through the worst thing that has ever happened to her and there is not one thing I can do to make it any less horrible.  She knows I love her, she knows I won't push (she doesn't want to talk yet, let alone see anyone, and I know I won't either when my turn in these shoes comes, so I understand on top of respecting her wishes), and she knows I'll be there to cry with her, distract her, sit quietly with her, whatever she needs whenever she's ready and for the rest of our lives.

I just wish I could do something tangible, no matter how little, to help her/the family not have to deal with daily life beyond what's necessary right now.  (I say daily life because I don't think there are many practical things to deal with specific to the death now - there will not be a funeral, and the memorial celebration was thoroughly planned in advance by the deceased and will not happen for a while.)  But only if it's an actual help, not an imposition (so, fundamentally, I'm not going to personally show up with anything when they just want to be left alone while they can't even breathe without crying).  While I don't want to push, I don't want to do the "let me know if there's something I can do" thing, either, because that puts the burden on her to ask.

I'd rather offer a few specific things and trust she'll have no problem saying "No thanks" or "Maybe later" if they're not useful.  I struggle to think what things would be unintrusively helpful to offer, though.  For those of you who've been through a death that absolutely knocked the stuffing out of you, was there anything someone sent, did, had done, etc. in the aftermath that was helpful?  Something you wish someone had offered to do while you were just trying to put one foot in front of the other?

It's hard when you are trying to be the comforter while also needing comfort. 
Because you are a thoughtful writer, @Bastet, a card would likely be appreciated. 
When Dad passed, one card from a friend who knew the right things to say meant a lot to me.
 

[theredhead77]

I'm so sorry for your loss, @Bastet. It doesn't sound like they live very close to you, but are they close enough you could ding dong ditch some food? Drop it off, drive away then text that you left food (in a disposable pan) outside their door? 

 

I see a few new food mail order companies advertised. Instead of Flowers (.com) and spoonful of comfort (.com) are two off the top of my head.

[Bastet]

41 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

It's hard when you are trying to be the comforter while also needing comfort. 

Thank you, you're right.  And I think that's why I'm overly careful about not doing anything to help in a way that might feel like a burden - because I don't want the fact I'm also mourning to make her feel like she has to interact with me before she's ready.  The pain I feel is one thing, but hers is on another level; this is about her, not me.

41 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Because you are a thoughtful writer, @Bastet, a card would likely be appreciated. 
When Dad passed, one card from a friend who knew the right things to say meant a lot to me.

I will definitely do that.  I had emailed her a farewell message to read to her mom (her mom didn't want to see or talk to anyone in the end, either), but I will write something to her, and a little something to the rest of the family. 

1 minute ago, theredhead77 said:

It doesn't sound like they live very close to you, but are they close enough you could ding dong ditch some food? Drop it off, drive away then text that you left food (in a disposable pan) outside their door? 

If I go at the right time of day, I can make it in about half an hour.  I thought of that, but didn't think about the texting angle (since I normally don't text) - I was thinking I'd ring the bell and run back to my car, but wouldn't make it away in time.  My only concern would be that she didn't check her phone for a while, and then food was sitting there.  But let me ponder that.

3 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I see a few new food mail order companies advertised. Instead of Flowers (.com) and spoonful of comfort (.com) are two off the top of my head.

I had been perusing spoonful of comfort, but wasn't aware of the other one - I'll take a look, thanks.

[theredhead77]

19 minutes ago, Bastet said:

If I go at the right time of day, I can make it in about half an hour.  I thought of that, but didn't think about the texting angle (since I normally don't text) - I was thinking I'd ring the bell and run back to my car, but wouldn't make it away in time.  My only concern would be that she didn't check her phone for a while, and then food was sitting there.  But let me ponder that.

I'm not usually a fan of disposable things but grocery stores should have a stock of Styrofoam coolers, or even something like this insulated bag from Amazon. Blue ice isn't expensive and none of those things would (or should) make her feel obligated to return them to you right away, or at all.

[BookWoman56]

 

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I will definitely do that.  I had emailed her a farewell message to read to her mom (her mom didn't want to see or talk to anyone in the end, either), but I will write something to her, and a little something to the rest of the family. 

Years ago, the son of a colleague died suddenly in a hit and run. He and I had spent a week working together at a special event only a few weeks earlier, and we chatted a good bit during that time. After his death, I wrote a letter to his mother recounting a lot of the conversations we’d had, including his comments on his life so far and so forth, so she would have a sense of what he was thinking about in the weeks just before his death. She told me later that the letter was a huge comfort to her. If you’re able to, maybe write something sharing your fondest memories of this person and what she meant to you. Her family will undoubtedly get the standard condolences cards, but something more personalized will be more meaningful. 
 

For meals or other items, you might wait a couple of weeks. There’s often a lot of stuff arriving initially, and then 2-3 weeks later, after the immediate pressure of dealing with a funeral and possibly visitors and so forth, sometimes the grief just rolls right back in. It can be hard to handle meals and so forth when life becomes routine again, but it’s a new routine without the loved one. 

[Mindthinkr]

@Bastet My condolences on your loss. 

[MargeGunderson]

@Bastet, I’m so sorry for your loss. You are such a good friend for thinking of things you can do for your friend and her family while still respecting their need for space right now. Food is always my go to, and I second the idea of using a disposable cooler and ice packs.

[WinnieWinkle]

12 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

Her family will undoubtedly get the standard condolences cards, but something more personalized will be more meaningful. 

We lost my sister a few years ago and what meant the most to me were the personal reminiscences that people shared with us.  One thing I would recommend though to anyone wondering what to do when someone dies is if you do nothing else at the very least send a card - my mother is still very hurt that a cousin of ours never acknowledged my sister's death.  No phone call, no card, no flowers, nothing.  You (general you) may think people are so overwhelmed with grief that this would go unnoticed but in my limited experience anyway you do notice and you do appreciate that others have reached out.  And if you are like my mother you never forget, or forgive!, those who do not.

Edited July 6, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[shapeshifter]

My sister (who I see on average once every 5 years) just called to let me know she and her husband will be driving down from Canada and staying here for 2 days while they pick up the old furniture they had shipped to my daughter's when Mom died (which I guarantee my sister will realize she doesn't want after she gets it home). They are leaving to drive back the same morning and time I leave to get a root canal. Of course. And if I change my appointment, no doubt they will have already changed their dates to my new date. We get along okay via video, but, otherwise, no. I will be sleeping in the room with the twin bed and no air conditioner. 
I'm trying to think of everything that can go wrong --especially things she will say-- so I can be pleasantly surprised that it wasn't that bad rather than being overwhelmed.

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

For meals or other items, you might wait a couple of weeks. There’s often a lot of stuff arriving initially, and then 2-3 weeks later, after the immediate pressure of dealing with a funeral and possibly visitors and so forth, sometimes the grief just rolls right back in. It can be hard to handle meals and so forth when life becomes routine again, but it’s a new routine without the loved one. 

Yeah, that's why I was trying to come up with something other than food right now.  I wound up texting with her brother, and, as expected, they are inundated with food and groceries.  So I'm going to do that later - when others have stopped sending stuff, yet they still don't have the energy to cook, I will bring them food.

For right now, I think just a note sharing some of my favorite memories.

Thanks, everyone.

41 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

(which I guarantee my sister will realize she doesn't want after she gets it home).

This made me laugh, even not knowing your sister, because I feel like that happens a lot. 

[Quof]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, that's why I was trying to come up with something other than food right now.  I wound up texting with her brother, and, as expected, they are inundated with food and groceries.

Toilet paper, garbage bags, napkins, paper plates and plastic cutlery.  If they have a house full of visitors, they will need all of these, but won't have thought to buy them. 

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, Quof said:

If they have a house full of visitors,

They don't, they just want to be alone right now.  (Which is how I would be, so I understand.)  I thought about sending disposable plates and cutlery, though, so loading/unloading the dishwasher, even though it's just them eating, is another thing they don't have to deal with. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Bastet

[MargeGunderson]

@Bastet, does your friend like candles, or bath bombs, or any kind of “self care” stuff? Maybe you could put together a few things you know she likes in to a care package. 

[Calvada]

@Bastet, I'm so sorry for your loss.  I think a letter to your friend about your personal remembrances of her mom --- as your friend's mom, as a second mom to you, as a friend to your mom --- would be wonderful for your friend to have now and in the future.  When I have lost someone close, it was those kinds of things that meant so much to me.  

Re food - often people send main dishes, so maybe something like salads, a fruit basket, assorted bagels, muffins, a pound of ground coffee, and other types of things would be welcome later on.  When my sister died, her son told me they received 6 pans of lasagna along with lots of other main dishes.  They were delighted with the blueberry muffins & lemon poppyseed bread I made for them.  My nephew's words when I handed it over:  "It's not another 9x13 pan!"  

[ParadoxLost]

@Bastet When my Dad died, I appreciated it when people made a donation to research related to the cause of his death. 

 

[Leeds]

 

On 7/5/2021 at 4:02 PM, Bastet said:

Thank you.  Prepared meals/groceries was my first thought, too (they already have a gardener and a housekeeper), but they'd never let me just drop it off and leave, yet they're not emotionally ready for me to come in and spend time, so me showing up with anything is the kind of thing that would be imposing on them more than actually helping.  I'll have to look into what I could have delivered (they're not even an hour away from me, but there are fewer options in their area). 

On the other hand, I think most people's first thought is food, so I'd kind of like to offer something different now, and then bring/send them food later, when most people have moved on but they still don't feel like preparing meals.

Do you know how to contact the housekeeper and/or gardener?  Perhaps you could coordinate with them and see if they have any suggestions as to what might be welcome now.  Or drop a (freezable) meal with them, for them to take over to the house when it might be helpful in a couple of months.  They might also be a good resource for learning when your friend is ready for a (short) visit.  Definitely sharing memories through cards, phone messages, emails, is lovely, even if they bring tears.  As has been said, the grieving doesn't end after a couple of weeks.  Don't forget to take care of yourself.  You've suffered a big loss too.

 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Leeds said:

Don't forget to take care of yourself.  You've suffered a big loss too.

That's very sweet, thank you.

I wrote one note including numerous memories to my friend, and a different one to her dad.  (I sent her brother and sister shorter cards.)  I'm very happy with how both flowed out of me, and hope they'll bring some comfort.  I cried and laughed while writing them, and felt a little better afterward.  I had sent my friend a brief message to read to her mom (as had my mom) once we knew time was quickly coming to an end.  So I'm at peace that I've let everyone know how I feel about them.

My friend went home (she lives about three hours away) yesterday as she needed to get back to work, and she has a lovely backyard with lots of plants, so my family sent a blue hydrangea.  Whenever she's ready for me to visit, I'll bring some of her favorite foods, teas, and potent potables.  I have family in the same city, so she knows I can come up without staying with her if she's ready to talk for an afternoon but no more than that.

Thanks again for all the condolences and suggestions, everyone.

[Leeds]

38 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That's very sweet, thank you.

I wrote one note including numerous memories to my friend, and a different one to her dad.  (I sent her brother and sister shorter cards.)  I'm very happy with how both flowed out of me, and hope they'll bring some comfort.  I cried and laughed while writing them, and felt a little better afterward.  I had sent my friend a brief message to read to her mom (as had my mom) once we knew time was quickly coming to an end.  So I'm at peace that I've let everyone know how I feel about them.

My friend went home (she lives about three hours away) yesterday as she needed to get back to work, and she has a lovely backyard with lots of plants, so my family sent a blue hydrangea.  Whenever she's ready for me to visit, I'll bring some of her favorite foods, teas, and potent potables.  I have family in the same city, so she knows I can come up without staying with her if she's ready to talk for an afternoon but no more than that.

Thanks again for all the condolences and suggestions, everyone.

We should all have such thoughtful friends.

[WinnieWinkle]

My Dad sold his condo last night.  It's a weird feeling.  This was the apartment they moved to long after I had married and left home - but they've lived there for almost 20 years now so it still feels very much like 'home' for me.  My mother is now living in an assisted living facility and my Dad will likely move there with her and get a bigger unit (no way in this world could they co-exist in what is essentially one room!!!).  Anyway now I do have one less worry for down the road which was me being the one having to sell the place either for them or after they were both gone.  What I do have to deal with now is what to do with the contents of the place.   I am not looking forward to that.

Edited July 13, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[BookWoman56]

@WinnieWinkle, I feel for you. My mother had been living with me for almost 2 years before she died in late 2019, and I’m still going through some of her stuff. It was fairly easy to go through her clothes and donate those to charity, and decide to keep some furniture and her china, silverware, and crystal, etc. But I need to force myself to go through some paperwork and shred everything except a few pages of medical history that might be relevant to my siblings and me. Since your father has sold the condo, that gives you more of a time crunch. 
 

On a slightly related matter, I haven’t posted much here for the past several months or even responded to a lot of posts. My mother had asked me to do what I could to help my younger sister, and I have done so but now hit my limit. For background, my younger sister has been a hot mess since we were kids, and it’s gotten worse as she’s gotten older. She was widowed fairly young, but about 15 years ago she and a high school boyfriend reconnected and got married. He is a total jerk, whose health has deteriorated significantly in the past few years due to alcoholism and heavy smoking, plus significant mental health problems. So, cirrhosis, hepatitis, COPD, BPD…and the list goes on. He’d been unable to work for a while and finally got approved for some kind of disability benefits. Their housing situation was horrible, and so I offered to let them stay with me for a while until they could get stabilized a little and then move into a new place of their own. They moved in last October, and my life has been absolute hell since then. So a couple of weeks ago, I told her that they need to be in their own place by the end of August. I just can’t deal with them anymore, more so my BIL than my sister. 
 

I sat down with my daughter a couple of days ago and we made plans. In about a year and a half, she’ll be starting a doctoral program most likely in one of two cities, both of which I would find acceptable as retirement locations. So at that point, I plan to sell my 4BR house here and buy a much smaller house in the city where she will do grad school. After the past few years, I need some major peace and quiet. I know that things will be better once my sister and BIL have moved out, but I feel very strongly that I want to be in a different place entirely. 

[shapeshifter]

@BookWoman56, in case it makes you feel better: I think your decisions and courses of action all sound like you have made the best possible choices —going right up to the limit line between being generous but without crossing over into doormat. You should be able to sleep well and live at peace with yourself and your loved ones. Best of all, soon you will be in a much-deserved, better situation, having arrived there with a clear conscience. You have set an example for your sister of when to walk away from a situation. 
However, one thing to consider:  Now is really the time to sell your house. This is a seller’s market. I urge you to at least ask a realtor about how much profit you could realize now in comparison to a normal market. I say this as someone who intended to buy, but am in a holding pattern as homes sell within a week for over the asking price.

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

What I do have to deal with now is what to do with the contents of the place.   I am not looking forward to that.

I am currently going through a lot of old photographs. I finally just decided to put the loose ones into large, white, office-quality but also acid-free envelopes, simply labeled with a decade or names and relationships, and then re-box them. Hopefully that will make it a tiny bit easier for whichever daughters go through them next. 

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I am currently going through a lot of old photographs. I finally just decided to put the loose ones into large, white, office-quality but also acid-free envelopes, simply labeled with a decade or names and relationships, and then re-box them. Hopefully that will make it a tiny bit easier for whichever daughters go through them next. 

I did that a few years ago and had every intention of making a few scrapbooks. Say one of my equestrian career. My granddaughter loves horses and she would like to have it someday so I’ll get to it this winter. I already made one of all my childs pictures from birth until 18. So. Many are just personal memories to me and it’s amazing how much room they take up even sorted and stored. It almost feels as though I’m letting go of my life before I’m done living it. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I did that a few years ago and had every intention of making a few scrapbooks. Say one of my equestrian career. My granddaughter loves horses and she would like to have it someday so I’ll get to it this winter. I already made one of all my childs pictures from birth until 18. So. Many are just personal memories to me and it’s amazing how much room they take up even sorted and stored. It almost feels as though I’m letting go of my life before I’m done living it. 

The loose pictures I'm currently going through are from Mom, who passed almost a year ago at almost 92. 
Both she and I also had albums, but they have aged poorly --especially (IMO) those ones with the cling-plastic. 
However, if there is ever a cyber war that involves EMPs like out of apocalyptic science fiction that wipe out all the data stored in clouds, hard drives, etc. we might still be able to see my mother's father's parents in the 19th century. Hmmm...I suppose approximate dates would be as important as genealogical connections. Ages too. And he doesn't look like a "hatter" who likely worked in a factory, does he?

Edited July 14, 2021 by shapeshifter

[emma675]

9 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

Their housing situation was horrible, and so I offered to let them stay with me for a while until they could get stabilized a little and then move into a new place of their own. They moved in last October, and my life has been absolute hell since then. So a couple of weeks ago, I told her that they need to be in their own place by the end of August. I just can’t deal with them anymore, more so my BIL than my sister. 

You were very generous to let them move in originally, I hope it's not too much of a hassle getting them out by August. I have had friends who let down-on-their-luck or challenged family members move in with them, always as a temporary solution never as a permanent change. Nine times out of ten, it's been incredibly difficult to get the family members out when the friends have had enough. I actually had one friend who gave up her apartment because it was the only way to get her cousin out, it was incredibly sad and frustrating. And cousin tried every sad story and mental blackmail he could to try and stay, but that didn't work on the apartment leasing office. My friend packed up all of her stuff and moved out and the apartment had to throw her cousin out, because he refused to leave. His name wasn't even on the lease!