Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[peacheslatour]

Just now, shapeshifter said:

Hah! I had forgotten the gist of this thread discussion and was at first hoping you at least liked baths. 😆

Once you get your whole family under the spray it does tend to get out of hand.

[PRgal]

My parents, once again, asked me why I was not considering a preschool to 12 (or kindergarten to 12) school for my son.  Where I'm from, these schools tend to be really big and a kid who is an only child and has, so far, had little contact with peers (gee, THANKS A LOT, COVID!!!) will NOT do well in such a place.  Some of these places have upward to 900-1000 kids (even though preschool/elementary divisions are separate from middle/high school divisions, often in a different building).  When I tried to explain to them, they continued to ask me why.  When I was growing up, my parents were more concerned with so-called "brand name" private schools rather than looking at smaller ones (I get that many of these schools are newer, but two of the places I'm looking at already existed by the time I was school aged) as well as convenience (read:  places that are closer to home).  I don't know.  Private schools are about being a good fit for the child, not convenience for the family.  They don't seem to get that.  Perhaps it's generational.  Or even cultural (the larger/typically older (i.e. "brand name," like the one I went to) tend to have more families newer to Canada who might not have the connections or know people at other places.  But I'm not "newer" to the country.  And my parents have been here for nearly 50 years, so not "new" either.  They also didn't seem to understand that some schools, especially boys-only schools start in Grade 3, not kindergarten or pre-school, so even considering any of them will require looking at a place for the earlier years.  It's so annoying

 

p.s. I'm also considering public school, but I'm getting A LOT of flack from the parents about sending him to French Immersion. It's probably an immigrant vs. Canadian-born thing.  Maybe they think I'm acting like an Anglo mom rather than a Chinese/Chinese-Canadian mom?  

[Jaded]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:57 PM, AgentRXS said:

She is now trying for a Sunday after I get off work, which doesn't exactly work for me but does for my sister. 🙄  SMH So tired of having to cater to someone who doesn't even value me enough to check in on from time to time.

Did your shower end up happening yesterday? If so how did it go?

[theredhead77]

18 hours ago, PRgal said:

p.s. I'm also considering public school, but I'm getting A LOT of flack from the parents about sending him to French Immersion. It's probably an immigrant vs. Canadian-born thing.  Maybe they think I'm acting like an Anglo mom rather than a Chinese/Chinese-Canadian mom?  

What does your husband think?

This random person on the internet says DO IT! It's so much easier to learn languages as a kid. Are you also teaching him the dialect of Chinese from your culture? I'm sorry for using the incorrect term, I know there are multiple languages spoken in China, I just can't think of the right words to use to ask the question.

[BookWoman56]

@PRgal, this is a decision you and your husband should make, based on your own criteria of what the best solution is for your son. Your parents already had their opportunity to make that decision for your education, and while it doesn’t hurt anything to listen to their perspective, it’s not their decision. I would caution against making the assumption so many people do, that a private school is automatically better than a public school. Based on my own experience having taught at a private school a gazillion years ago and having my daughter attend a completely different private school for K-2, that’s not always the case. Check out the specific schools you are seriously considering, including their websites, visiting the campus, and if possible, chatting with a few parents whose kids attend the school. Based on your assessment, make an informed decision. 
 

I also agree that if your son has the opportunity to acquire a second or third language, it’s better to do so earlier rather than later. A few years ago, I was editing a linguistics doctoral dissertation, which focused on acquisition of a second language versus acquisition of a third language. The conclusion was that it’s much easier, regardless of age, to learn a third language than a second language, because with a third language, the learner has already internalized strategies to acquire a new language. I’m not sure what the situation is with your son’s language skills. If he’s already speaking both English and Cantonese, for example, then it may be fairly easy for him to learn French. My grandson speaks English and Cantonese; my DIL is from Hong Kong and talks to him almost exclusively in Cantonese so he doesn’t forget the Cantonese he learned while they were living in Hong Kong before moving to the U.S.  At some point, based on living in San Antonio, he will probably take Spanish. But my daughter had a different experience; she really struggled in K-2 studying English and Hebrew simultaneously, but had no issues at all studying German and French simultaneously a few years ago while completing her undergrad degree. 

[AgentRXS]

9 hours ago, Jaded said:

Did your shower end up happening yesterday? If so how did it go?

Nope. Its happening 2 Sundays from now. It's going to be mostly virtual which adds to the frustration of the insistence on my sister being there. She can easily Facetime or Zoom along with everyone else on Mon or Tues. 

[PRgal]

@BookWoman56 @theredhead77:  My son is essentially bilingual - trilingual if you consider Toddlerese a language.  I try to speak to him in Cantonese, but my language skills are probably the equivalent of a six year old's (haha).  Essentially, it's kind of broken (but not as limited as my husband's Yiddish) and I'm illiterate.  The local public elementary (English) school is good in the lower grades, but provincial test scores dip significantly based on Grade 6 tests (until this year, elementary kids were tested in Grades 3 and 6.  Tests are cancelled this year for obvious reasons).  The schools I looked at would likely be a good fit for him as they're a smaller environment.  He'd be lost at most public elementary schools or at JK (junior kindergarten, which is for 4 year olds) to 12 schools.  As an only child and based on his personality right now, an environment where everyone knows everyone is probably best.  

I think my husband is neutral about immersion.  He was in what's called a Late Immersion program (entry in Grade 4 or 5) and never really learned to speak it well.  French for me was about a 25 minutes a day (i.e. "core French") and I probably speak a bit better.  

(Bookwoman:  could the fact that one reads Hebrew "backwards" have been a problem for your daughter?  Or many because it doesn't use the Roman alphabet?  My husband said he struggled too.  Different ways of reading/writing was probably why I didn't survive Chinese school)  

Edited October 6, 2020 by PRgal

[theredhead77]

I have family in BC and one of my cousins did French immersion and loved it and is fully bilingual. I don't remember why the other opted out and she can get by with French but not at the same level as her sister. The one who took it has been working all over the world doing various things and is currently working for the UN. She was in France until COVID hit and she went home for the time being.

I spent 4 years in Hebrew School preparing for my Bat Mitzvah but now? I don't remember more than the basics. I'm sure I could read it but I'd never be able to tell you what it says. Same with my ASL beyond the alphabet and my Spanish, despite taking years of it in school. I think it would be an anomaly for anyone younger than our grandparents to be fluent in Yiddish.

[theredhead77]

I grew up in a cat household. My dad has always wanted a dog and my mom has always said no. All these years later my dad still wants a dog. I know he's also super bummed their current cats are not social or cuddlers and I'm still bitter my mom said no when I needed to rehome my two kittens years ago, then a few months later they adopted what is now their current cats. My kittens found what I hope is/was a good home with her coworker but they were snugglebugs and I still remember how scared they were when I left them. 

Anyway, for the past few years my mom has given my dad "dog" gifts, like regifting a Pound Puppy that I had as a kid and now she wants to give him some kids dog toy for Hanukkah. 1) I think it's cruel and 2) they don't need any more useless crap in their house. I sent her a pretty harsh reply to either get a dog or don't but dad has always wanted a dog and she has always said no, knock off the joke gifts.

To get ahead of the 'dad should volunteer at the shelter', he can, but he won't. He's not all that mobile, gets anxiety when he is out of the house too long, doesn't like to be around people and is not in great health (plus: COVID). I really believe if they had gotten a dog 10-15 years ago my dad would be none of those things but now they are not in a position to adopt and train a dog so dogless they shall be.

I'm just venting and this behavior from my mom is on point for her. She has good intentions but is always a step behind and 3 steps to the side of what the actual solution is. In Jr. High I wanted to start running cross country. Instead of getting me decent running shoes she took me to Payless and bought whatever crap the sales person recommended as running shoes (I never became a runner).

[PRgal]

18 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I grew up in a cat household. My dad has always wanted a dog and my mom has always said no. All these years later my dad still wants a dog. I know he's also super bummed their current cats are not social or cuddlers and I'm still bitter my mom said no when I needed to rehome my two kittens years ago, then a few months later they adopted what is now their current cats. My kittens found what I hope is/was a good home with her coworker but they were snugglebugs and I still remember how scared they were when I left them. 

Anyway, for the past few years my mom has given my dad "dog" gifts, like regifting a Pound Puppy that I had as a kid and now she wants to give him some kids dog toy for Hanukkah. 1) I think it's cruel and 2) they don't need any more useless crap in their house. I sent her a pretty harsh reply to either get a dog or don't but dad has always wanted a dog and she has always said no, knock off the joke gifts.

To get ahead of the 'dad should volunteer at the shelter', he can, but he won't. He's not all that mobile, gets anxiety when he is out of the house too long, doesn't like to be around people and is not in great health (plus: COVID). I really believe if they had gotten a dog 10-15 years ago my dad would be none of those things but now they are not in a position to adopt and train a dog so dogless they shall be.

I'm just venting and this behavior from my mom is on point for her. She has good intentions but is always a step behind and 3 steps to the side of what the actual solution is. In Jr. High I wanted to start running cross country. Instead of getting me decent running shoes she took me to Payless and bought whatever crap the sales person recommended as running shoes (I never became a runner).

Good intentions?  The only good intention I could think of regarding your shoes is $$$.  As for the dog, did she think your dad wouldn't take as much responsibility?  After all, cats can use the litter box.  I often vent about my parents trying to force STEM on me (they were both STEM majors and my mom worked in IT back in the 80s, going into the 90s).  I'm not a tech gal and the week at computer camp in 1988 (!!!) turned me off even more.  And now there's a lot of pressure coming from them on how to raise my kid.  The latter must be an Asian thing?

[CrazyInAlabama]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

And now there's a lot of pressure coming from them on how to raise my kid.  The latter must be an Asian thing?

That's not an Asian thing in my experience.     There are a lot of grandparents that love to tell the parents that everything they're doing is wrong. 

   

Edited October 14, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

Good intentions?  The only good intention I could think of regarding your shoes is $$$.  As for the dog, did she think your dad wouldn't take as much responsibility?  After all, cats can use the litter box. 

Regarding the shoes I'm sure it was partially $$ for "running shoes" and partially lack of education about proper running shoes. This was very early 90s and neither of my parents are athletes. I didn't go without but things that were $$ had to be earned. If I wanted Reeboks (with the straps... now it's in your head, too) or Guess jeans or something designer I had to save my allowance or work towards a goal (usually grade related). And regarding the dogs my mom isn't a dog person, so we had cats. And cats and dogs "don't get along". I don't want to make my mom sound like the villain  or my dad sound like he was a slacker.  My dad was always an equal partner when it came to me and the house. He didn't "babysit" me, he parented. Same with the household things. He did some things, my mom did others and they shared other chores. My mom has always just been one step behind and several steps to the side of things.

 

51 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

That's not an Asian thing in my experience.     There are a lot of grandparents that love to tell the parents that everything they're doing is wrong. 

Word. I'm finding a lot of things we (general) like to think are "xyz  culture's thing" are really just "a thing in culture", all cultures. Let's break those stereotypes about types of guilt, or parental interference, or doing well in school and realize we're all a little messed up, in very common ways regardless of what culture we were raised in, but we're all alright.

[PRgal]

19 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Regarding the shoes I'm sure it was partially $$ for "running shoes" and partially lack of education about proper running shoes. This was very early 90s and neither of my parents are athletes. I didn't go without but things that were $$ had to be earned. If I wanted Reeboks (with the straps... now it's in your head, too) or Guess jeans or something designer I had to save my allowance or work towards a goal (usually grade related). And regarding the dogs my mom isn't a dog person, so we had cats. And cats and dogs "don't get along". I don't want to make my mom sound like the villain  or my dad sound like he was a slacker.  My dad was always an equal partner when it came to me and the house. He didn't "babysit" me, he parented. Same with the household things. He did some things, my mom did others and they shared other chores. My mom has always just been one step behind and several steps to the side of things.

 

Word. I'm finding a lot of things we (general) like to think are "xyz  culture's thing" are really just "a thing in culture", all cultures. Let's break those stereotypes about types of guilt, or parental interference, or doing well in school and realize we're all a little messed up, in very common ways regardless of what culture we were raised in, but we're all alright.

Maybe it's just more of a "thing" because oftentimes, the grandparents live with the family (or are there ALL.  THE.  FREAKIN'.  TIME.  (even if it's virtually...at least you can turn that off)).  You can also say that it's an Italian thing or a Jewish thing (according to my husband).  My Anglo-Christian friends seem to have a better time dealing with their parents. 

[magicdog]

On 10/13/2020 at 5:49 PM, theredhead77 said:

Anyway, for the past few years my mom has given my dad "dog" gifts, like regifting a Pound Puppy that I had as a kid and now she wants to give him some kids dog toy for Hanukkah. 1) I think it's cruel and 2) they don't need any more useless crap in their house. I sent her a pretty harsh reply to either get a dog or don't but dad has always wanted a dog and she has always said no, knock off the joke gifts.

I'm not an expert in these matters, but it seems like a passive aggressive act to give dog related items to a guy who is forbidden to have a dog.

 

23 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

cats and dogs "don't get along".

They can.  Sometimes they're raised together, other times shelters have animals that get along with multi pet households.  

 

Quote

cats can use the litter box

I've seen plenty of small dogs do the same - chihuahuas and Toy Fox Terriers mostly.  Another great option I used when I was without a yard for my dog was this.  It made the first pee of the day much easier when I couldn't walk her in the middle of the night.

 

On 10/14/2020 at 12:48 PM, PRgal said:

And now there's a lot of pressure coming from them on how to raise my kid.  The latter must be an Asian thing?

Nope.  That crosses all ethnic barriers!  

@PRgal with education, have you considered homeschooling your child?  It can be a rewarding experience and many families have had great success with it.  Since you're in Canada, here is a site focused on residents throughout the country.

[KittyMom4]

On 10/1/2020 at 1:12 PM, peacheslatour said:

I hate showers of every variety. They're tedious, expensive and a waste of everyone's time. I send a check along with my regrets.

hi @peacheslatour, can I sit with you? I hate them with a passion of 1,000 burning suns. Tedious is a nice way to describe them. In my 20's and 30's I was subjected to numerous bridal/baby showers as that is what we were all doing. PLEASE NOTE: I did not have a bridal or baby shower, by chance and by choice. So sitting through them to support good friends and my sister was my penance. Fast forward 20 years and now my friends' kids and niece/nephews are starting the wedding/baby making years and the showers are starting up again. I dodged 2 this summer (thank you Covid) and I am getting ready to do my "I'm so sorry I can't make it, here's $$$, congratulations!" schtick. I know that sounds horrible but I refuse to waste a Saturday or Sunday afternoon sitting at a table with 5 other women I barely know to play "guess the bride's favorite color" and "write a wish for the baby" games, eating baked ziti and dry cake. Ugh.

Edited October 16, 2020 by BexKeps

[PRgal]

21 hours ago, magicdog said:

 

 

Nope.  That crosses all ethnic barriers!  

@PRgal with education, have you considered homeschooling your child?  It can be a rewarding experience and many families have had great success with it.  Since you're in Canada, here is a site focused on residents throughout the country.

Yes, I've looked into it.  But only for pre-school.  Since that's not part of the regular school program in Ontario, I wouldn't even need to send a letter notifying a board that my son won't be attending school.  However, it's the socialization I'm worried about.  The admissions process for some kindergartens (and even pre-school) is about how well kids interact with others, whether they play age-appropriately, etc...they say that the process is going to be modified, considering the circumstances, but I wonder if kids who've attended daycares would have a better chance than someone like mine.  He's attending a virtual music class right now, but it's only once a week.  

[magicdog]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

it's the socialization I'm worried about. 

I've heard this argument before, and it's generally not valid.  I've met home schooled kids and they're socialized better than conventionally educated kids.  They can comfortably interact with all kinds of people of all ages/generations.  Current school dynamics tend to create an, "Us vs Them" attitude and force people to separate rather than join together.  Home schooling doesn't mean the child is hermetically sealed from the world at large.  They interact with it even more!  They meet kids their age range in sports, etc. so they can make friends just fine.

Edited October 16, 2020 by magicdog

[PRgal]

6 minutes ago, magicdog said:

I've heard this argument before, and it's generally not valid.  I've met home schooled kids and they're socialized better than conventionally educated kids.  They can comfortably interact with all kinds of people of all ages/generations.  Current school dynamics tend to create an, "Us vs Them" attitude and force people to separate rather than join together.  Home schooling doesn't mean the child is hermetically sealed from the world at large.  They interact with it even more!  They meet kids their age range in sports, etc. so they can make friends just fine.

Oh no.  I meant preschool homeschool and then regular school for kindergarten+.  He's not going to be seeing other kids, other than virtually this year and possibly next.  He's never really had a true playdate (I don't know many people with kids his age) and the last time he had any real/live  interaction with peers was back in March.  I have no siblings and my husband's sister lives on the other side of the country (and my son's cousin is 10).  This is very different from the standard homeschooled child who IS in extra-curricular activities.  I'm worried about the "entrance exam."  

[RealHousewife]

My sister's been getting on my nerves again. We didn't see each other as often prior to the pandemic. I forgot just how moody, narcissistic and bitchy she could be. She got mad at me today because I had the audacity to bring food to our parents. She said it ruined plans she had that I didn't even know about. She's literally always crying or screaming about something. I miss being able to see my friends who are sweet and don't jump down my throat over nothing. I will need to take a break being around her. I'd rather be lonely than deal with her. 

 

[BookWoman56]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

My sister's been getting on my nerves again. We didn't see each other as often prior to the pandemic. I forgot just how moody, narcissistic and bitchy she could be. She got mad at me today because I had the audacity to bring food to our parents. She said it ruined plans she had that I didn't even know about. 

 

So in addition to being annoying, your sister believes that reading her mind should be included in your skill set as a sibling? She sounds exhausting to deal with. 

[RealHousewife]

2 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

So in addition to being annoying, your sister believes that reading her mind should be included in your skill set as a sibling? She sounds exhausting to deal with. 

She is. She's quick to cry, quick to scream. She's always been jealous of me (though she has no reason to be). I think it's why she's so short with me. She's much nicer to strangers and friends. Friends who get close to her usually end up seeing some of what I deal with though. To people who don't know her well, she's perfectly nice and friendly. 

[PRgal]

We accepted an offer for my son to attend a preschool in the fall and my mom is already pressuring me to change my mind.  SERIOUSLY?  In JANUARY?  He won't start until September!  Who knows what the situation will be like by then!  And going to school and seeing peers will be good for him, developmentally and from a mental health perspective.  The boy is already expressively delayed (this means he understands words, but his vocabulary is low for his age).  It's important for him to be with other kids his own age, not just virtually, for 45 minutes a week (music class).  

[Brookside]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:36 PM, PRgal said:

Yes, I've looked into it.  But only for pre-school.  Since that's not part of the regular school program in Ontario, I wouldn't even need to send a letter notifying a board that my son won't be attending school.  However, it's the socialization I'm worried about.  The admissions process for some kindergartens (and even pre-school) is about how well kids interact with others, whether they play age-appropriately, etc...they say that the process is going to be modified, considering the circumstances, but I wonder if kids who've attended daycares would have a better chance than someone like mine.  He's attending a virtual music class right now, but it's only once a week.  

Does your son get anxious?  My first child was very nervous about new situations, so I arranged with her KG teacher to go in a day early and meet the teacher and get comfortable in the classroom.  We weren't there very long, but it made the transition to a full classroom much easier for her to cope with.

[PRgal]

20 hours ago, Brookside said:

Does your son get anxious?  My first child was very nervous about new situations, so I arranged with her KG teacher to go in a day early and meet the teacher and get comfortable in the classroom.  We weren't there very long, but it made the transition to a full classroom much easier for her to cope with.

He does a bit.  From what I understand, the program has an orientation day for the kids, so that could help.  Again, my mother is freaking out.  Already.

Edited January 8, 2021 by PRgal

[BookWoman56]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:24 PM, PRgal said:

We accepted an offer for my son to attend a preschool in the fall and my mom is already pressuring me to change my mind.  SERIOUSLY?  In JANUARY?  He won't start until September!  Who knows what the situation will be like by then!  And going to school and seeing peers will be good for him, developmentally and from a mental health perspective.  The boy is already expressively delayed (this means he understands words, but his vocabulary is low for his age).  It's important for him to be with other kids his own age, not just virtually, for 45 minutes a week (music class).  

From this and some of your other posts, it sounds as if your parents frequently try to impose their attitude on your decisions about your child. For the sake of your child and your own peace of mind, you need to establish some boundaries with your parents; otherwise, your parents are going to spend the next two decades telling you which pre-K, elementary through high school, and university your child should attend, along with which extracurricular activities he should participate in, who his friends should be, and so forth. Yes, there may be cultural factors involved, not in the sense of grandparents being pushy because that occurs across many cultures, but in the sense that you may have been culturally conditioned to defer to your parents’ opinions and wishes. But it is possible to be polite and respectful to your parents while still making it absolutely clear to them that you and your husband will be making the decisions about how to raise your child. 

As a grandparent myself, I understand the temptation to tell my son and DIL what they should be doing with their son. But generally, I wait until they ask me for input, and even then, frame my thoughts not as a directive but as “You may want to also consider ABC,” in a tone that shows respect for their role as parents. I have only once given completely unsolicited advice, and that was in a situation where I felt they were unaware of a critical failure of the charter school my grandson was attending. Long story short, the reading and writing homework he was given was almost always riddled with errors in the instructions, and despite my attempts to bring those errors to the teacher’s attention, there was zero response from the teacher. (I had been asked to oversee my grandson’s homework because at that time, both parents were working evenings and didn’t get home until after homework should have been completed.) So I eventually talked to them both and recommended a change from the charter school to the neighborhood elementary school, pointing out the advantages of doing so, but nevertheless reminding them it was their decision to make. They took my advice and I can’t help but feel part of their acceptance was that I don’t constantly tell them what they should be doing and that if I was disturbed enough to give them advice on the school, then they needed to listen. 
 

My point here is that if your parents are giving you unsolicited advice on every aspect of your child’s life, you may disregard actual good advice because you’re automatically tuning out what they say because it’s nonstop. 

[BookWoman56]

I just need to vent about a situation that is simply annoying for me but apparently a major problem for some people. An extended family member did something reprehensible a couple of years ago, and after telling her what I thought of her actions, I cut all contact, as did most of the family. She bitched and moaned about it on social media, but we stood firm. However, in the past 6 months, a couple of other extended family members have resumed contact. Now those who have resumed contact are pushing the mantra of “You all need to just get over what happened and resume contact because she’s FAMILY.“ There’s a strong implication that we’re the ones being jerks for not just sweeping things under the rug and pretending that nothing happened. 
And hell no. She stole money from both her mother (my sister) while she was dying and her grandmother (my mother), by using my mother’s bank cards that my sister had in her possession and stealing cash from a home safe. The total was around $40K, so this wasn’t a small sum that she could easily repay. For various reasons, it wasn’t feasible to press charges against her. She has vacillated between denying that she took the money, blaming another family member for not monitoring the bank accounts more closely and preventing her from withdrawing the money, and claiming she deserved the money and needed it more than her mother and her grandmother did. She most likely spent the money on drugs. 
What annoys the fuck out of me are people who don’t understand that some actions are unforgivable, and that even with family members, nobody is required to forgive someone for bad actions. I fully believe that occasionally, someone’s behavior is so bad that there’s no getting past it. In this case, this was not a one-off incident of bad behavior; it was just an escalation of previous incidents. And so I am ignoring the couple of family members who want to “move on” to keep the peace. I cut a toxic person from my life, and the fact that we’re related means nothing to me at this point. There is absolutely nothing she could do that would ever make me forgive her or want to interact with her again. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by BookWoman56

[MargeGunderson]

@BookWoman56, I’m totally on your side. Just because someone is family doesn’t mean they get a free pass for shitty behavior. It doesn’t sound like she’s taken any responsibility for her actions, apologized or tried to make things right, which is the minimum I would require before engaging with her. Stay strong!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

She stole money from both her mother (my sister) while she was dying and her grandmother (my mother), by using my mother’s bank cards that my sister had in her possession and stealing cash from a home safe. The total was around $40K, so this wasn’t a small sum that she could easily repay. For various reasons, it wasn’t feasible to press charges against her. She has vacillated between denying that she took the money, blaming another family member for not monitoring the bank accounts more closely and preventing her from withdrawing the money, and claiming she deserved the money and needed it more than her mother and her grandmother did. She most likely spent the money on drugs. 

If she isn't in the equivalent of a 12-step program, and even then, if she hasn't reached the restitution stage, then your relatives are just enabling her, which will eventually result in her death if there is no other intervention or unless, perhaps, she survives a near death experience and then realizes she has a problem.
Feel free to quote me to them.

[BookWoman56]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

If she isn't in the equivalent of a 12-step program, and even then, if she hasn't reached the restitution stage, then your relatives are just enabling her, which will eventually result in her death if there is no other intervention or unless, perhaps, she survives a near death experience and then realizes she has a problem.
Feel free to quote me to them.

She went through addiction treatment years before this latest debacle. On the surface, it seemed like she had gotten her act together; she enrolled in college, got her degree, got a decent job, etc. However, in retrospect, while she did accomplish those goals, she simply got better at hiding other things. From a distance, it’s pretty clear that she is at best a pathological liar and at worst a sociopath. There is no 12-step program that can help her. She regards others as people she can manipulate or not manipulate, and places value only on those she can get something out of. And once someone no longer has something she wants, she has zero interest in them. So my remaining siblings and I are adamant in remaining no contact with her. The family members who have resumed contact have done so mostly to stay in touch with her kids. I feel sorry for the kids, but I think the best thing that could happen is for her to lose custody. Of course I don’t blame the kids for their mother’s actions, but I had never spent much time with the kids and my general good wishes for their welfare aren’t sufficient to overcome my refusal to ever spend another minute with her. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, I'm totally over the Flying Monkeys (often family members) who keep excusing horrible behavior with "But they're family", or "that's just how they've always been".    The favoring of the Golden Child in the family, often goes with making another family member the scapegoat.    It's so sad to watch people spend their whole life trying to get someone to love them who never will.   The happiest time of my life was when I realized that nothing I could do, or accomplish would be enough for my parents.   I also don't kiss butt either, and that's required by my mother to be treated like a human being, so that doesn't happen any more either.   

[isalicat]

19 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

There is absolutely nothing she could do that would ever make me forgive her or want to interact with her again. 

I applaud your decision to never interact with this person ever again but would urge you to consider forgiving her nonetheless. That would be for you, not for her, and doesn't need to be communicated, just internalized, for your own long term best mental health. IMHO.

[WinnieWinkle]

I have two cousins (from opposite sides of the family) who have started really pushing their pet psychics on FB.  It's easy enough for me to ignore them that's not the problem.  What I worry about is whether they, and other family members, are getting sucked in and spending money they really can't spare supporting these people.  Somehow I think me linking to debunking sites will not go over well though.

[PRgal]

I just took a whole mental load off myself.  My dad and I had a discussion earlier regarding toddlers and food - I've posted before about how I'm criticized for focusing on plant-based foods (we aren't vegan, we just eat lots of plant proteins...or my son and I do, anyway).  My parents always tell me I'm "cleansing" too much and that my son doesn't need "cleansing."  Though it's true that toddlers don't need cleanses (and I don't believe in them for adults, either), our definitions are really different.  To me, "cleanses" are things like juice or soup cleanses, to "clear" one's system.  To my parents, it's basically anything without meat.  I asked my dad how in the world vegan pizza or vegan poutine could be considered a "cleanse," and he went on about "toxins" in meat.  But I said vegan cheese can be highly processed, have tons of salt, etc...that's not very "clean" (and vegan boxed mac and cheese is no better than the non-vegan stuff).  I also mentioned that steamed chicken and broccoli is much "cleaner" and more "spa food" than anything without meat.  It's just that our definitions are different.  I've asked them not to use "cleanse" when referring to plant-based/vegetarian food unless it's, well...clean.  It's less confusing.  

Keep in mind my parents are fluent and comfortable in English, so it's not a linguistic issue.  The Cantonese word for "clean" (when referring to food) is "ching" or "clear."  And again, I can't see how fries or onion rings can be "ching."  I think it's both cultural and generational.  But at least we understand each other now.  And I will continue to make my son pasta with lentil "bolognese."  And now that I know how to say protein in Cantonese, I think I can get the nanny to understand where I'm coming from.  

[shapeshifter]

@PRgal, I just saw a Panera commercial where they describe their ingredients as “clean,” whatever the hell that means. I wonder if your parents have seen those commercials or something equally confusing—like those weird internet click-bait ads?

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

@PRgal, I just saw a Panera commercial where they describe their ingredients as “clean,” whatever the hell that means. I wonder if your parents have seen those commercials or something equally confusing—like those weird internet click-bait ads?

Doubt it. They’ve always called vegetarian meals “ching.”  Well, that or jai, which is used both for a specific dish and anything plant based.  When they’re speaking Cantonese, anyway.  

Edited February 12, 2021 by PRgal

[shapeshifter]

Back in the 1970s when I went “vegetarian” and health food (e.g., honey instead of sugar) my parents couldn’t relate, but then by the 1990s, my dad was making his own granola. Hang in there, @PRgal. ❤️

[PRgal]

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Back in the 1970s when I went “vegetarian” and health food (e.g., honey instead of sugar) my parents couldn’t relate, but then by the 1990s, my dad was making his own granola. Hang in there, @PRgal. ❤️

Whoa...he made his own granola some 25-30 years ago?  I only started this year (new pandemic project.  Still making my own bread though) - LOL.  My parents just shrug at that part.  

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

Whoa...he made his own granola some 25-30 years ago?  I only started this year (new pandemic project.  Still making my own bread though) - LOL.  My parents just shrug at that part.  

Dad loved to cook. His family were impoverished immigrants during The Great Depression, so he really appreciated having food to cook with. And he was always very creative and busy when he wasn’t working: making furniture, making jewelry, growing fruit trees and drying the fruit. He always did our plumbing repairs. He worked into his 80s. Tough act to follow. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by shapeshifter

[WinnieWinkle]

My niece is planning to self publish her memoirs.  This is not going to go well.  She has a lot of anger towards her parents, especially her father (not without reason - but nothing salacious or abusive) but had made her peace with them and life had moved on.   Aside from the need she seems to feel to pick at the scabs of some family wounds I just don't know why she'd imagine anyone would actually pay to read the memoirs (her word BTW) of a pretty ordinary suburban 20 something who has led a pretty ordinary life.

Edited February 13, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Growsonwalls]

40 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

My niece is planning to self publish her memoirs.  This is not going to go well.  She has a lot of anger towards her parents, especially her father (not without reason - but nothing salacious or abusive) but had made her peace with them and life had moved on.   Aside from the need she seems to feel to pick at the scabs of some family wounds I just don't know why she'd imagine anyone would actually pay to read the memoirs (her word BTW) of a pretty ordinary suburban 20 something who has led a pretty ordinary life.

Self publishing is the new thing. Just let her -- very few people will read her book. My dad just self-published a card-counting blackjack strategy book. I'm struggling through it -- I don't play blackjack. But oh well ... It's his project.

[isalicat]

On the subject of self-publishing and families, a dear friend of mine had her twenty something year marriage break up over her husband's need to self-publish his truly terrible novels. I don't know exactly how this works but if you self-publish a novel and actually have it printed (as opposed to just throwing it up on line) I gather it does cost considerable amounts of money (like thousands of dollars) and apparently my friend was not perceived as sufficiently supportive of this effort, so the husband found a gal he worked with that did think he was "all that" and not only wrecked the marriage but also his career (it violated the terms of his work contract to be shtupping someone in house).

[CrazyInAlabama]

Vanity presses still publish anything you want published, for a price (Vanity press for those who don't know publish your book, but you pay for everything, including the number of paper copies you want produced, and then the shipping to fill your garage with them).    It can cost thousands to have your book edited, printed, produced in paper or hardbound, and then shipped to you.     It's so much cheaper to self-publish an electronic copy on something like Amazon.    From what I've heard, if you pay for editing the story, and then organizational editing, proof reading, then you have to pay someone to design the cover, and the entire book has to be formatted for easier reading.   If you need a table of contents, or index, you have to pay a lot for those too.   Then if you want paper copies, you pay for the production, and shipping to you.    It can cost up to $20,000 to publish a book depending on how many copies you have printed.  

[Growsonwalls]

My dad just self-published on Amazon. He's writing under a pen name because he doesn't want casinos to know he's counting cards. 

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

My dad just self-published on Amazon. He's writing under a pen name because he doesn't want casinos to know he's counting cards. 

I won’t tell if you don’t. 😉

[Stats Queen]

28 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

My dad just self-published on Amazon. He's writing under a pen name because he doesn't want casinos to know he's counting cards. 

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[BookWoman56]

Vanity presses are just that — a publisher who prints books because the author’s vanity is much bigger than his/her writing ability and the appeal of the subject. Given the ease with which someone can self-publish on Amazon or similar platforms, it makes no damn sense to print a book when you have no real audience. 
 

For what it’s worth, I will be doing a very small scale publishing project soon but I already know my audience and need less than a dozen copies. My mother left a few handwritten cookbooks she had compiled, and I plan to have them copied/digitized into one cookbook, and have them printed and spiral bound at a FedEx/office center. I sure as hell am not going to pay an insane amount of money to have them professionally printed and bound, when the plan is to provide just enough copies for a few family members. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

Vanity presses are just that — a publisher who prints books because the author’s vanity is much bigger than his/her writing ability and the appeal of the subject. Given the ease with which someone can self-publish on Amazon or similar platforms, it makes no damn sense to print a book when you have no real audience. 

I don't really know, but it seems that if one has a family member determined to publish "memoirs" that would be better off buried in the sands of time, that having them printed would keep them from getting out into the wild better than doing it digitally on Amazon. But, then again, in the digital ethernet, they are more likely to get diluted and effectively disappear over time, whereas a print copy might be unearthed by a great grand-someone in the future. But we'll all be dust then anyway. 

Still, a good therapist would be cheaper.

But recipes seem like a good thing to preserve, and card counting techniques might be kind of cool for great great great grand-kids to bring to Show & Tell on Zoom in the future when they're sharing with their classmates on Mars. 

I have recently obtained boxes of mostly photos but also original illustrated love poems and puns from my father to my mother when they were "courting."
I supposed home printing a few copies and uploading the digitized versions somewhere before I leave this mortal coil should be a goal. The Library of Congress was making "permanent" copies of all Tweets. Not sure if that's still happening, and, even if it was, the future folks would have to know to search.

Edited February 14, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Stats Queen]

On 2/14/2021 at 2:17 AM, shapeshifter said:

have recently obtained boxes of mostly photos but also original illustrated love poems and puns from my father to my mother when they were "courting."
I supposed home printing a few copies and uploading the digitized versions somewhere before I leave this mortal coil should be a goal. The Library of Congress was making "permanent" copies of all Tweets. Not sure if that's still happening, and, even if it was, the future folks would have to know to search.

My sister compiled an amazing collection of my mom’s side of the family. It included all the letters our grandparents wrote to each other when they were courting, family genealogy, stories my grandfather wrote, family recipes, etc. It is amazing. That was in 1998, so before electronic books. She did have it copyrighted but it never went to anyone outside our family.

That’s very different than exposing family skeletons to the world or writing a memoir when you are 25. 

[Growsonwalls]

Well my dad's book is now live on the kindle store, self-published. I have no idea how to card count so I have no idea what he's talking about. But I'm still reading it.

https://www.amazon.com/AceMT-Blackjack-Spanish-Moraine-Mono-ebook/dp/B08X6DSXVN/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=acemt+blackjack+spanish+21&qid=1614119067&s=books&sr=1-1

[Growsonwalls]

Omg. I must be doing something wrong. Both my sister and my dad are now on FB. My sister blocked me. My dad denied my friend request. I'm not estranged from either of them. My sister just said "Social media is something I just don't want you to see." My dad's explanation was even more absurd: he only wants to use Facebook to talk about blackjack card counting strategies and to promote the book he wrote on blackjack. He is posting FB stories and joining blackjack discussion groups but won't accept my friend request. What gives?