S03.E18: Nobody Knows But Me

[cali1981]

Christina was pretty good and her musical number, while too long, was very good.  Don't know how many of you saw the movie Burlesque but even though it got knocked by a lot of critics, I really enjoyed it and was impressed with Cristina's acting. She held her her own with Cher, Kristen Bell and Stanley Tucci and really looked great.

[Sutton]

Midru -

 

Did anyone else breathe a huge sigh of relief that Rayna and Deacon stayed a solid couple with no relationship drama? I will be so excited to have a few more episodes of them as a team, together, facing their problems as a unit.

Me, a thousand times me. I kinda held my breathe until the end of the episode and said, hooray they were a team tonight, now writers keep them working together, parenting as an adult couple. Rayna depended on Deacon in that episode, asking him to go and make sure Maddie was okay, and he did it without a doubt, like it's was so natural for him. He talked to her and made her understand what she was doing was hurting her mother and him. Being honest with her about his cancer was the best scene between the two of them. Father/Daughter bonding on telling each other what is hurting, and talking it out.  That last scene made me very happy when Maddie/Daphne both suggested Deacon move in because he's always there. Rayna smiling after the girls suggested he move in, nudging Deacon with a smile and a look that said, I told you so.

[jackjill89]

The whole thing with Teddy and the hooker -- isn't that entrapment? Didn't she get him to break the law? It's not like he did it on his own. It wouldn't have occurred to him to steal money if she hadn't asked and said she was being watched. It's not like he was set up to do what he was doing before, which was seeing a hooker. Did he use city funds to pay for her services before? This seemed like a total set up. Is that legal? 

 

Gunnar needs to stop now. Leave Scarlett alone.

[Clemgo3165]

Well, he could have said no to giving her the money and just come out and admitted that he slept with a hooker, unknowingly the first time. Or offered her a plane ticket somewhere to get out of dodge, but made it clear he didn't have that kind of money available. He didn't have to steal it. 

 

Gunnar's getting totally creepy frankly. Are we supposed to think that this is romantic? Reminds me of the Rayna/Luke "romance."

[Racj82]

Huh, interesting. The name briefly cracked the top 200 in 2007 after coming out of nowhere, and it's popularity has dropped down to a top 300 name in subsequent years, although it's still hanging on. I think it's interesting that Juliette picked a name that was briefly trendy eight, seven years ago instead of what's trending right now.

They have to be writing out Teddy. He really is the most expendable part of the show right. There's absolutely no point in him being there...send the dude off to jail.

I get that Maddie has every right to be a total bitch, but man, I'm sick of watching it. I feel like if this show goes on to a season 4, we're going to be subjected to some dumb love triangle between Maddie, a "bad boy", and Luke's son.

I don't think she has the total right to do anything. also, no matter if I was a teen or an adult, I couldn't imagine making my father continually feel like crap while he's already dealing with cancer. Stfu already. Edited April 17, 2015 by Racj82

[Clemgo3165]

 

I don't think she has the total right to do anything. also, no matter is I was a teen or an adult, I couldn't imagine making my father continually feel like craps while he's already dealing with cancer.

 

Yeah, I think it's perfectly valid for her to say that being around Deacon makes her feel sad, but to say it after 3 weeks of running away to Luke's and avoiding him makes her look like a total bitch - this makes me sad so I'll just hang out with the Wheeler's until you go, kay? Time to grow up and show a little compassion. Given their relationship, I find it hard to believe that she suddenly doesn't want to spend any time with him - that's gotta hurt.

[madam magpie]

Not to mention that it was three weeks AFTER she'd had a heart-to-heart with Deacon about being angry/sad, been all huggy with Rayna ("Oh, Mom, I'm so happy you're home after this awful day!"), and crawled into bed with her mother. How exactly did things go after that scene with Rayna last week if Maddie is suddenly barely speaking to Deacon? Did her parents just drop it and stop paying attention to her? Doubtful, since they're around everyday...and she's not Daphne. But that's the writing, not the character. The bitchy teen BS is boring to watch, but we can't really blame Maddie for it. She's only as consistent as the people who create her.

I really liked her conversation with Deacon, though. Really really. And I think what she told him about hiding out at Luke's was OK. I loved that Rayna sent him home to check, that Maddie opened up to him, that she apologized. It all cemented the family unit. But it was really just a rehash of what happened last week. Which I also loved! But still. If this episode were going to happen this way, the last episode should not have ended with a meeting of the hearts between Maddie and her parents.

Edited April 16, 2015 by madam magpie

[Madding crowd]

I didn't like Juliette's story at all. Of course she and Avery would have a nanny, but they would have planned that during her pregnancy, and they made it seem like she just hired some stranger on the spot. It is difficult being alone-when I had my son my husband was working 2 jobs, my mom was dead and my sisters lived in another state. I was alone 24/7 with my baby and it is hell sometimes. They didn't need to show Juliette looking like she wanted to smother the baby though, or leaving her with a stranger with no word to Avery or no way to reach her. What if something happened?

 

The whole story with Teddy makes no sense either. The FBI was watching the homely hooker for what reason exactly? Then instead of her being arrested for hooking, she is given immunity so she can entrap the mayor into giving her a huge sum of money. Why would she need immunity? It would probably be hard to prosecute her for having sex with guys (she doesn't exactly stand in alleys) and she would at most get a fine. So what is this all about? And if Teddy had just borrowed the money from someone and gave it to her, what would he be guilty of? 

 

Luke is growing on me, I like it that he had a civil conversation with Deacon. Maddie continues to be a spoiled brat. I have a teenage boy at home and he can be borderline rude, but he never gets like Maddie. Being mad at someone for having cancer is pretty selfish, even for a teen.

 

And, Oliver Hudson has a sexy smile and even though he is a slime ball, something about him make me root for him to get back on top. 

[basiltherat]

Teddy didn't "borrow" the hooker payoff money, he embezzled it from the City of which he is mayor.  Which was all a result of his involvement with Jeff, where he met the hooker and Jeff's party where underage Layla almost died and Teddy got the police to cover up.  He embezzled from a bank way back at the start of the show, with Pig Blood Peggy.

[Sutton]

Watching last nights episode was it just me but did Connie (Rayna) looked so happy that she just wanted to burst. Every scene with Deacon, her face was lite up and happy, really happy. Has Connie finally got what I think she has wanted for a while that Rayna/Deacon should be a couple. Like she said at the cabin "she wants her girls to see what true love is" and boy did that show on her face every time her and Deacon were together.

 

I kind of like what they are doing to Teddy. I miss Lamar and all his back door dealings. Teddy is just stupid the man doesn't have anyone he can trust not even Lamar's guy who does the dirty work. He's going to need help from both Rayna and Deacon because the mess he's gotten himself into will have front page headlines, (Mayor arrested for embezzlement) which will involve the girls hearing, about what he did and Rayna/Deacon will have to help them and him in some way.

[DeLurker]

Have they established any reason what case the FBI is involved in to begin with (why they were van lurking and tapping Natasha)?

[J-Man]

 

"Jade St. John."  Interesting name.

We'll probably find out in a few weeks that her birth name was something like "Norma Schwartz."

 

Jade St. John sounds like a porn star name.

Compare this with "Jessie St. James" (Jonathan Groff) on "Glee," which actually WAS a (female) porn star's name!

[Primetimer]

No, not Will, although he's getting there. But it's Deacon who really owns his secrets.

Read the story

[jjj]

Yes, as a poster noted about, Juliette's own troubled history with her mother would give her deeply conflicting emotions when faced with her own daughter.  It's hard to look at your baby and know your own mother did not protect you the way she should have done. 

 

"Jade St. John" reminded me of the "find your stripper name" game -- taking your pet's name and your first street name to come up with an appropriately tacky name.  Tiger Spruce.   Snowbell Broad.   Sorry to any Jade St. Johns reading this! 

[Madding crowd]

Teddy didn't "borrow" the hooker payoff money, he embezzled it from the City of which he is mayor. Which was all a result of his involvement with Jeff, where he met the hooker and Jeff's party where underage Layla almost died and Teddy got the police to cover up. He embezzled from a bank way back at the start of the show, with Pig Blood Peggy.

Yes, I know he didn't borrow it-but the hooker had no way of knowing where he would get the money from and the whole FBI thing was set up to trap him in doing something there was no guarantee he would do. I said if he had borrowed the money they could only arrest him for giving the money to a friend. Even now they won't immediately know where the money came from unless the guy he blackmailed is in on it too. What was the FBI really after?

Edited April 16, 2015 by Madding crowd

[jjj]

It will not be hard to track the money.  I feel bad for the financial manager who got extorted into this.  As I said last week, he would have been better off having a furious wife than a federal indictment.  Now he will have both. 

[EyesGlazed]

God, do I want to see the doctor punch Gunnar in his mouth.  I am so done with Gunnar right now.

Me too.  He is so moody, sulky and self-centered that I hope he never gets Scarlett back.  And I'm tired of having to look at his head excrescences: the pompadour, the hats.

 

I really hope the Triple Exxxes don't break up permanently. I love them together, as a trio, both musically and otherwise. Otherwise, its just Gunnar being a creep while Scarlet tries to move on from all this drama. They need Avery! Everyone needs Avery!

 

Jeff continues to be a slimeball, but I am kind of entertained by watching him climb his way to the top. And I think Layla is crazy talented, so if this story line keeps her around, I am all for it.  

Word to both reactions.

 

Five minutes into the episode and - yet again - we have a pissy pouty Maddie.  What now, I thought.  Oh I know, it's a day ending in "y", and Maddie is angry/resentful/silent treatment.  They've really got to lighten up on this because it's really making me dislike Maddie.  This girl has three parents kissing her ass night and day.  And then Rayna un-grounds her and lets her go to the concert, because she acted like a human instead of a little spoiled bitch for five minutes?  And who, may I ask, is caring for Daphne while Maddie's getting (as usual) what she wants?  Both Deacon and Rayna were with the golden child.  So Daphne's either alone, or she's about to watch her father get arrested.  I wonder if she'll be noticed when her father goes to jail?  Probably not, because no one will be suffering like Maddie, even though she has a spare father.

Oh SO MUCH WORD.  My parents would have shut down such brattiness in me in two minutes.  And really, if anyone has the right to whine it's Daphne.  "Uh, hi?  Remember how I have a biological father and until recently a nuclear family?  Might I be feeling distressed not only that my mother dumped my father, but now I have to deal with my mother banging this baby-daddy musician who I never really knew and who panders to Maddie all the day long?"

 

I do like that Will may be stepping out of the closet.  But I predict that his new love affair will not go smoothly.  The new guy will not enjoy pretending to the world that he and Will are just friends.

 

As for Teddy, it would be much more interesting if instead of getting "stung", he fully embraced the dark side and became a corrupt racketeer mayor who tries to hide all his dirty doings from his ex-wife and daughters.

Edited April 16, 2015 by EyesGlazed

[Lila82]

The only thing that bothers me about the Juliette taking off for LA is that she didn't bring Cadence and the nanny with her.  If she's a milk machine, she's breastfeeding, or at least pumping, and newborns eat every two hours or so, and there's no way she'd be able to pump enough milk to last a few days in that time span or discuss switching the baby to formula with her pediatrician.  If she has a full time nanny, she can have plenty of me time and continue feeding her child in the way she's accustomed.  I do think Juliette had a case of baby blues and was clearly overwhelmed by a constantly crying baby, no adult interaction, and little mental stimulation.  Before the  baby, her career was a full time job and now she's stuck in that house and changing diapers. Avery didn't bring up the nanny either, and didn't leave her with an alternative if she wanted to have some time to herself. If he had just let her come to the party, everything would have likely been fine.  She'd could have gotten dressed up and sipped some wine and had a night to relax with adults for company, but instead, her husband firmly shut her out of his career and her closest friend pushed her away.  

 

Communication has always been an issue with Avery and Juliette, and it's disappointing but realistic.  They need to sit down and firmly schedule their time so childcare doesn't fall solely on Juliette and Avery's career doesn't push her away.

[Soup333]

The only thing that bothers me about the Juliette taking off for LA is that she didn't bring Cadence and the nanny with her.  If she's a milk machine, she's breastfeeding, or at least pumping, and newborns eat every two hours or so, and there's no way she'd be able to pump enough milk to last a few days in that time span or discuss switching the baby to formula with her pediatrician.  If she has a full time nanny, she can have plenty of me time and continue feeding her child in the way she's accustomed.  I do think Juliette had a case of baby blues and was clearly overwhelmed by a constantly crying baby, no adult interaction, and little mental stimulation.  Before the  baby, her career was a full time job and now she's stuck in that house and changing diapers. Avery didn't bring up the nanny either, and didn't leave her with an alternative if she wanted to have some time to herself. If he had just let her come to the party, everything would have likely been fine.  She'd could have gotten dressed up and sipped some wine and had a night to relax with adults for company, but instead, her husband firmly shut her out of his career and her closest friend pushed her away.  

 

Communication has always been an issue with Avery and Juliette, and it's disappointing but realistic.  They need to sit down and firmly schedule their time so childcare doesn't fall solely on Juliette and Avery's career doesn't push her away.

 

I glazed over that line because it makes me that much more sad about what she did. More than likely, this was a day trip. I imagine it wouldn't have taken her very long to do what she had to do. She's a professional. It wasn't going to be a weeklong process for this one song. I think if she would have gone to Avery and said, "Babe, I really need to do this..." he'd have understood. He might not have been thrilled about the nanny, but I have absolute faith that he would have understood if she'd have wanted to get away for a day to work or take nanny/baby with her.

 

I don't think she wants Avery to quit the band and stay home to be Mr. Juliette Barnes. She does love her husband. I think she's just been dying to get back to work after taking off the last 6 months or so and now that the baby is here, life is complicated and evidently, the Barkleys spent most of her pregnancy (after they reconciled) watching movies and eating salted caramels, because they damn sure didn't talk about what they were going to do in regards to childcare after the baby was actually born. 

 

I don't think Avery did anything wrong in this episode. Dude would have to go back to work eventually and I think he is a great support to Juliette. But like I said last week, I don't think his love is going to be enough to get her through this time. Not by itself. 

[TVHappy9463]

This was a good episode, I felt like we were getting back on track and I like the new direction they have taken the characters.  The 3xs and Layla were great.  Luke was decent, that character has come a long way and I am glad for Will Chase he is good actor and deserves to stay employed.  Deacon and Rayna working as a team with Maddie. Juliette as a new Mom was on the money, they didn't turn her into this totally different person just because she had a baby. She is unable to bond with her child and acted out, it was true to the character.

 

 

Gunnar please no more hats, and time to move on. 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I totally get Juliette's frustration. Throughout the episode I kept saying, "Just get a nanny!" Even having just a part-time nanny who comes in for a few hours during the day can be a huge help. Giving her a break from the crying and the diaper changing and allowing her some uninterrupted time to take a shower, take a nap, check her email, or just to anything unrelated to the baby can be a huge relief, and she has the means to hire one.

That said, hiring someone to take care of your baby is something that both parents need to be comfortable with. At the very least, she should have discussed it with Avery and let him interviewed the potential nannies. He has to interact with the nanny as well so it's only fair that he should have some voice in selecting who will be holding their baby for several hours a day. And that's before you even take into account that she hired a live-in nanny. I would be super particular about who I would want to live in my house with me 24 hours a day.

My issue with Juliet is that she is very inconsiderate. Even if you take the baby out of the equation, she just left the house without telling Avery where she was going or when she would be back. I would never sneak out of the house while my husband was asleep without at least leaving a note saying that I was going out for a little while. That's just common courtesy. But the fact that she also left their baby with a stranger (a professional but a stranger nonetheless) and just left is pretty crappy.

[hqtextbook]

I just hope they don't make Juliette the triple-exe's enemy. Like "my psycho wife is making me quit the band bc she's high maintenance." Because no. Both Juliette and Avery have music careers and why should it be assumed that only Avery gets to continue with his uninterrupted. Not saying they'll go there, but I really hope they do not. 

[madam magpie]

I'm hoping Avery doesn't actually quit the band. There's no need for that nonsense, though maybe it's a necessary plot point to get Scarlett/Gunnar back together. Juliette (and Avery by default) are rich as hell. Hire a nanny, cook, housekeeper, and enjoy your lives! There's no honor in misery.

The Mr. Juliette Barnes thing would be really interesting to get into, I think, though. I see both sides of that problem and would love to watch them work through it. I do think that's a position that's especially hard for men. It doesn't speak badly of Avery if he struggles with the reality that his wife is not only more successful than he is, but a superstar.

[Litnit]

Admittedly I fast forward it each time, but this Teddy story line feels like it belongs in a different show. Remind me again, other than initial embarrassment, why he couldn't just come clean about the hooker (especially since he apparently didn't know she was a pro when they first me). The whole thing has felt so forced, from him being interested in her, to the buy off money.

Gunnar...she's just not that in to you. I do have to say, though, that I was glad to see Dr. Man maintained patient confidentiality by saying they met through a mutual friend. Scarlett seemed worried he was going to mention Deacon. I was happy to see the writers didn't go there.

[Madding crowd]

The Teddy thing still doesn't make sense to me. IIRC, first the hooker called to see him. He went to her house where the FBI was listening in a van outside. One guy says "Isn't that the Mayor?" Which indicated they didn't know the Mayor was involved. Why were they there? Next, the hooker tells Teddy she is under surveillance and has to disappear. She asks him for money. He makes no effort to take a loan or borrow the funds but goes straight to embezzling. At this point, hooker is wired and collects the money and the FBI rushes in after Teddy leaves.

 

So, why were they watching her in the first place? How did they know Teddy would procure the money in an illegal way? What has the hooker done that requires the FBI to be involved and that requires her to have immunity. Teddy is stupid, but the storyline doesn't even make sense.

[Sutton]

Madding Crowd -- 

 

The Teddy thing still doesn't make sense to me. IIRC, first the hooker called to see him. He went to her house where the FBI was listening in a van outside. One guy says "Isn't that the Mayor?" Which indicated they didn't know the Mayor was involved. Why were they there? Next, the hooker tells Teddy she is under surveillance and has to disappear. She asks him for money. He makes no effort to take a loan or borrow the funds but goes straight to embezzling. At this point, hooker is wired and collects the money and the FBI rushes in after Teddy leaves.

 

So, why were they watching her in the first place? How did they know Teddy would procure the money in an illegal way? What has the hooker done that requires the FBI to be involved and that requires her to have immunity. Teddy is stupid, but the storyline doesn't even make sense.

Do you think all of those questions that your asking will be answered before the season finale???

[Madding crowd]

I hope they do more than just shuttle Teddy off to jail. He has been back and forth throughout the show; a loving dad one minute, a  total jerk the next. I can't see them devoting much time to explaining the whole sting operation but it couldn't have started with Teddy since they were looking at the hooker's house before they even knew he was involved. 

[airwair]

Very rarely do I get too invested when it doesn't involve Deacon and Rayna or their crew, but I have to touch on something.

When I heard they were writing Hayden's pregnancy in, I was thoroughly confused. For as strong and funny and entertaining as she can be, I have always found her character to be glaringly selfish. Perhaps she had to be because no one else cared or whatever, but for whatever reason, she's always been selfish and career obsessed enough that I thought giving her a baby at this juncture in the show was a terrible idea.

It is a dead end storyline for her, in my opinion.

They can't do a complete 180 on her like they do everyone else for some reason, so they will make her just as self serving and unable to care for others as she's ever been, but this time they will blame it on some condition like PPD.

I find that somewhat ridiculous, as her behavior last night did not seem terribly out of character for me. It just seems like perhaps they should have gone the old fashioned route of baggy clothes and conspicuously placed lamps and furniture and saved us a lot of angst and head scratching.

[rubyred]

Interesting to think that Maddie's behavior towards Rayna has its root in the Paternity Lie. But dang. While I don't agree completely with what Rayna did, I've long since given her a Nighttime Soap Pass for that because 1) I have no choice, it's canon, 2) they did a semi-reasonable job explaining her reasons (even if you don't agree with them), and 3) it's not like Rayna chose an abusive asshole to raise her daughter. Teddy was by all reports an excellent, loving and committed father, current events notwithstanding. So while I get Maddie's resentment, it's not like she came out of this behind. She has two fathers begging for her attention, and as someone who hasn't seen hide nor hair of her father since I was 11 years old, my sympathy is tempered.

I used to think that Gunnar/Scarlett were endgame, but I think they've screwed the pooch on that one. Gunnar is just too unlikeable when he's in romantic pursuit, since he's seemingly incapable of listening or paying attention to rejection cues. IMO if they were really "true love" he would never have told Zoey he loved her, not without some hesitation or much much more time had passed since he broke up with Scarlett.

Still enjoying the the quiet connection between Rayna/Deacon as a solid couple. And even though it was annoying, I did like the consistency in Deacon running away again for dumbass reasons when things were getting too intense for him.

Someone upthread asked where Daphne was when Maddie went to the concert: she had been shipped off on a school camping trip at the beginning of the episode. So yeah they made her disappear but at least they let us know where she was!

I kind of don't know what Will is thinking (not that he's ever been good at long-range planning). I get why he likes the songwriter and it would be great to see him in an actual relationship. But he's so phobic about being out, and this songwriter dude is definitely out. So if they're planning to spend any time dating, people are going to notice and start making assumptions. Assumptions which would be true, but which Will will, in his usual fashion, try to deal with either with his fists or another night on the train tracks.

[GaT]

Madding Crowd -- 

 

Do you think all of those questions that your asking will be answered before the season finale???

Nope

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was glad to see Dr. Man maintained patient confidentiality by saying they met through a mutual friend.

Hilariously I could practically see Gunnar going through his mental roladex of Scarlett's friends.

[thuganomics85]

 

Hilariously I could practically see Gunnar going through his mental roladex of Scarlett's friends.

I now have this hilarious image of Gunnar accusing Avery of being the mutual friend.  

 

And after all the shit he's been through lately, Avery will probably just throw his hands in the air, walk away, and block Gunnar's phone number.

[hqtextbook]

Very rarely do I get too invested when it doesn't involve Deacon and Rayna or their crew, but I have to touch on something.

When I heard they were writing Hayden's pregnancy in, I was thoroughly confused. For as strong and funny and entertaining as she can be, I have always found her character to be glaringly selfish. Perhaps she had to be because no one else cared or whatever, but for whatever reason, she's always been selfish and career obsessed enough that I thought giving her a baby at this juncture in the show was a terrible idea.

It is a dead end storyline for her, in my opinion.

They can't do a complete 180 on her like they do everyone else for some reason, so they will make her just as self serving and unable to care for others as she's ever been, but this time they will blame it on some condition like PPD.

I find that somewhat ridiculous, as her behavior last night did not seem terribly out of character for me. It just seems like perhaps they should have gone the old fashioned route of baggy clothes and conspicuously placed lamps and furniture and saved us a lot of angst and head scratching.

Thats why I really liked the idea of adoption! remember when Juliette was looking at all those papers to give her baby up for adoption. That would have been a great choice given neither her nor Avery are really ready to be parents... Oh well. I still think this will be ok.

 

I really dont think the baggy clothes/lamp thing would have worked with Juilette. She is really small and she was VERY pregnant. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I now have this hilarious image of Gunnar accusing Avery of being the mutual friend.

Yes, you know Gunnar would think Zoey is gone and Avery is her only other friend so DING DING DING, Avery must be the one who caused this!

[LisaM]

I get the sense that they are writing Teddy off of the show a la Lamar. Besides his legal troubles - which would be the death for his job as Mayor - he and Deacon had that nice moment when Deacon told Teddy about the cancer and Teddy referred to "both of Maddie's dads". It really feels as if Teddy will be gone and will entrust the girls to Deacon.

 

I really like the doctor with Scarlett and so hope that she doesn't run back to Gunnar. I also like how Luke and Rayna have reached a level of civility.

[Bringonthedrama]

Interesting to think that Maddie's behavior towards Rayna has its root in the Paternity Lie. But dang. While I don't agree completely with what Rayna did, I've long since given her a Nighttime Soap Pass for that because 1) I have no choice, it's canon, 2) they did a semi-reasonable job explaining her reasons (even if you don't agree with them), and 3) it's not like Rayna chose an abusive asshole to raise her daughter. Teddy was by all reports an excellent, loving and committed father, current events notwithstanding. So while I get Maddie's resentment, it's not like she came out of this behind. She has two fathers begging for her attention, and as someone who hasn't seen hide nor hair of her father since I was 11 years old, my sympathy is tempered.

 

I think Maddie's anger is allll about Rayna and attitudes, not about her dads Teddy or Deacon (except that she is genuinely sad and angry he has cancer). Rayna lied to Maddie for what, 14 years? And this isn't the first time she's spoken about the importance of trust, honesty and respect to Maddie, in a very condescending manner, since it was revealed that Deacon is Maddie's bio-father. Deacon was right about one thing - he had been sober for years, so Rayna could have told him the truth at some point prior to her teenage years. (Her 'promise' to Teddy was ludicrous.) That shows a total lack of respect for someone she claims to love, not to mention a disregard for the 'you never know what will happen'  factor in life. Say Rayna and Teddy had been killed in an accident, and then Maddie had serious health issues - maybe even needed a bone marrow donation from a relative. She wouldn't know she could go to Deacon and Scarlett for help, because Rayna never told her the truth. Rayna refuses to acknowledge her own hypocrisy - she just expects total honesty and respect from Maddie because she's an adult and thus feels everything she's done is justified. (I've known people in real life like that.) In the big picture, Maddie not telling Rayna about dating Colt was minor. She wasn't withholding information about being sexually active/having issues with her period, getting high, cheating on exams, endangering Daphne, etc. I think Rayna needs to believe she is a super awesome mother who is practically all-knowing about her girls, so finding out that Luke knew all about Colt and Maddie's relationship and she did not was a swift kick to her ego.  I found Maddie's "you make me sad" attitude toward Deacon specifically far more offensive because he's suffering so much and has been nothing but wonderful to her. She's a teen-ager, not 5, she's old enough to suck it up and show him love and compassion, not selfishly avoid him. 

Edited April 17, 2015 by Bringonthedrama

[MisterS]

I think Maddie's anger is allll about Rayna and attitudes, not about her dads Teddy or Deacon (except that she is genuinely sad and angry he has cancer). Rayna lied to Maddie for what, 14 years? And this isn't the first time she's spoken about the importance of trust, honesty and respect to Maddie, in a very condescending manner, since it was revealed that Deacon is Maddie's bio-father. Deacon was right about one thing - he had been sober for years, so Rayna could have told him the truth at some point prior to her teenage years. (Her 'promise' to Teddy was ludicrous.) That shows a total lack of respect for someone she claims to love, not to mention a disregard for the 'you never know what will happen'  factor in life. Say Rayna and Teddy had been killed in an accident, and then Maddie had serious health issues - maybe even needed a bone marrow donation from a relative. She wouldn't know she could go to Deacon and Scarlett for help, because Rayna never told her the truth. Rayna refuses to acknowledge her own hypocrisy - she just expects total honesty and respect from Maddie because she's an adult and thus feels everything she's done is justified. (I've known people in real life like that.) In the big picture, Maddie not telling Rayna about dating Colt was minor. She wasn't withholding information about being sexually active/having issues with her period, getting high, cheating on exams, endangering Daphne, etc. I think Rayna needs to believe she is a super awesome mother who is practically all-knowing about her girls, so finding out that Luke knew all about Colt and Maddie's relationship and she did not was a swift kick to her ego.  I found Maddie's "you make me sad" attitude toward Deacon specifically far more offensive because he's suffering so much and has been nothing but wonderful to her. She's a teen-ager, not 5, she's old enough to suck it up and show him love and compassion, not selfishly avoid him.

I agree with all this but I think it's down to the writing. I love Nashville, mainly because of the cast, and no one is happier than me to see Rayna and Deacon playing happy families because they are so watchable. But the writers/creators have never properly fleshed Rayna's character out apart from making sure she's right all the time, which means that her mistakes/personality flaws are never adequately acknowledged. She always comes over, to me anyway, as self-righteous, and issues which affect her are resolved by everyone around her seeing the error of their ways and apologising. I'm not even sure the writers recognise the irony or hypocrisy of Rayna lecturing Maddie about honesty.

It's the same with Gunnar, who as many have said is coming across as completely unreasonable and a potential stalker. I'm not sure the writers would see that as they are focusing plot wise on the S-G-doctor love triangle and ultimately getting S and G getting back together. For me that ship has sailed and I don't care whether they get back together or not.

Maybe my opinion of the writers is too low?

[Guest]

How hard is it to find writers for tv?  I think the season where half the cast was battling substance abuse was better.  Now half of them are battling terminal asshole-itis.  

 

Who is likable now?  Emily, Bucky and Daphne?  

[Silly Angel]

When did "journalist" become a TV synonym for "airheaded creepster"? I am so sick of TV writers drawing journalists as shallow bloodsuckers who don't care about the subject (in this case, music) but about the personal shenanigans behind it, and not treating everyone involved with equal respect. I used to be a music journalist and I find this cartoonish portrayal groteqsue, especially for Pitchfork, which is pretty nerdy about the music.

 

I also didn't buy Cute Gay Songwriter Dude showing his love for Confused Closted Will. Chris Carmack is apocalyptically handsome but maybe one person can turn him down? Especially someone who would be within his rights to say, "Dude, I have eyes, so I get that you're physical perfection. but I'm an out, comfortable, respected Nashville songwriter who would like to live my life as such. I worked too hard and went through too much to keep a relationship on the DL for the sake of a guy who can't face himself. Grow up, come out, and give me a call."

 

And double thumbs-up to this. I wonder what she'd look like if half that spackle was scraped off her face.

 

 

So, can we talk about how Christina Aguilera hasn't aged in the last 15 years?

 

 

[EyesGlazed]

The Teddy thing still doesn't make sense to me. IIRC, first the hooker called to see him. He went to her house where the FBI was listening in a van outside. One guy says "Isn't that the Mayor?" Which indicated they didn't know the Mayor was involved. Why were they there? Next, the hooker tells Teddy she is under surveillance and has to disappear. She asks him for money. He makes no effort to take a loan or borrow the funds but goes straight to embezzling. At this point, hooker is wired and collects the money and the FBI rushes in after Teddy leaves.

 

So, why were they watching her in the first place? How did they know Teddy would procure the money in an illegal way? What has the hooker done that requires the FBI to be involved and that requires her to have immunity. Teddy is stupid, but the storyline doesn't even make sense.

My suppositions are these:  The FBI figured out that the hooker (what's her name again? I'm just going to call her Carol) is part of a high class prostitution ring.  This would be consistent with Jeff being able to dial up her and another hooker to party with him and Teddy.  The FBI wants to nab her high profile johns.  So they start surveilling her house.  Though they might have turned her first so that Carol actually knows her house is bugged and is just pretending when she tells Teddy she doesn't know why she's being watched. The FBI realize that the Mayor is one of her clients when they hear him in her house.  So then I guess they try to see what else they can nail him for.  They tell Carol to try to get money from him.  Teddy falls into the trap.  Boom!  Promotions all around for the Feds!

 

I hope Teddy becomes a crime lord with all the connections he's going to make in prison.

[Soup333]

How hard is it to find writers for tv?  I think the season where half the cast was battling substance abuse was better.  Now half of them are battling terminal asshole-itis.  

 

Who is likable now?  Emily, Bucky and Daphne?  

 

Glenn and the now faultless Avery. Cadence. 

 

I also didn't buy Cute Gay Songwriter Dude showing his love for Confused Closted Will. Chris Carmack is apocalyptically handsome but maybe one person can turn him down? Especially someone who would be within his rights to say, "Dude, I have eyes, so I get that you're physical perfection. but I'm an out, comfortable, respected Nashville songwriter who would like to live my life as such. I worked too hard and went through too much to keep a relationship on the DL for the sake of a guy who can't face himself. Grow up, come out, and give me a call."

 

Bolded is so true. But I'm hoping that Cute Gay Songwriter Dude does say something like this to him. He doesn't seem the type to have a secret relationship. 

[slade3]

Good on Will for getting with Kyle. He's cute as hell.

 

I was delighted by Will's scenes with Kyle. I have to admit, this show is not even close to a favorite anymore, and I was never a big Will fan, but his scenes were the only reason I kept watching this episode. I think Kyle is very cute, and I loved the way he kept staring at Will with this baffled expression that made me wonder if he knew Will was struggling to ask him out and wanted him to sweat it. I hope Kyle sticks around and someone writes these two a sweet, romantic story line.

 

I'm very disappointed with everything else.

 

I've wanted Deacon and Rayna to get together for a long time, but I feel it's a cop out to make liver cancer the reason Deacon will never drink again. I think only bad writers feel that an alcoholic character can only relapse or develop a disease that forces him to stop drinking. The Deacon and Rayna scenes lack chemistry and pizazz and seem to have happened too quickly after so much drama to get there.

 

Teddy's story line is just sad.

 

While I agree Luke is tolerable when he isn't dealing with Rayna, I simply don't see why he needs to be here. I hated the Christina Aquilera stuff. I have no problem with the singer, but she can't act and I'm tired of wasting show time on guest stars who can't act.

 

The Avery and Juliette story line is just too much. I hated that Juliette had become the comic relief, and it was even worse in this episode. Hopefully now that Hayden has had her baby, the writers will get her back to a normal story line.

 

For some reason, I decided I really like Scarlett while watching this episode. (Maybe it's also because I saw pat of that concert show a couple of weeks ago and she was performing barefoot and seemed really cool.) I liked her a lot in season 1, but had reservations. And I always liked her with shy, gentle Gunnar and felt annoyed the writers kept giving Gunnar weird, tragic story lines that lasted 2 episodes. But I like Deacon's doctor, too, so now I'm really annoyed. Because Gunnar was just mooning over his ex five minutes ago, so I thought I was safe to root for Scarlett finding love with the cute doctor. Now Gunnar, the man I always wanted her to be with, wants her back?! This show gives me a headache!!

[madam magpie]

I still like pretty much everyone I always liked, and have to admit...Luke is growing on me. Even Colt is pretty cool, now that he's a hipster.

The thing with Maddie and Rayna should last, though, I think. Much as those of us on the outside see Maddie being adored by her parents (and she is), she was lied to by the people she trusted most for the first thirteen years of her life. Plus, I always got the sense that Maddie worshipped her mother, really admired her and wanted to be like her. So the betrayal was pretty huge, and as a kid, Maddie lacks the perspective and life experience to really understand why Rayna did it. We should see Maddie evolving toward that compassion, with Deacon leading the way, but the fact that the paternity thing still bothers her seems pretty on point to me. (And I say this as someone who's never had any real relationship with her father at all. So rubyred, I get what you're saying. I really do.)

I also don't think that just because Rayna lied about Maddie's paternity that means she can never call Maddie out for lying. Lying to the people you love is almost always a hurtful thing to do. No one on this show grasps that better than Maddie, Deacon, and Rayna. I have to assume that they talk about this off screen, but I do wish that just once Rayna or Deacon would make that connection to Maddie clearly: "Yes, Mom lied to you about your dad. Didn't that hurt you deeply? Me too. And frankly, Mom too. That's why we don't lie to the people we love." Deacon sort of did that with the whole "it's dumb to keep secrets we're not ashamed of," but I'd rather they were more explicit about it.

No one gets real depth on this show, though, so I don't think it's fair to blame the characters for any of this. The only reason, I think, that the Rayna/Deacon relationship has the depth it does is that the actors are very good.

Slade: I sort of hear you about the speed. I still wish Rayna had turned down both proposals and spent the entire first half of this season sorting herself out. But alas, I just pretend what we actually saw never happened.

I can't agree about Christina, though, because I love her and all her crazy! When she started singing, I did some "mmmhmmm"ing because...yeah. She's in a totally different stratosphere vocally. If it's up to me, she may stay as long as she wants!

Edited April 17, 2015 by madam magpie

[Sutton]

Maybe the series kind of rushed Deacon and Rayna getting back together but for me I can only see the happy faces, first on Rayna and then on Deacon. (Are we going to get a Season 4) Someone on another forum said it perfectly, "

 

I found that 5x17 - 5x18 video last night and have already watched it a few times. The thing that really gets me when watching the scenes back-to-back like that is how HAPPY they both are, Rayna, especially. She is so comfortable and natural and relaxed with him and the joy just radiates from every part of her. Just look at her face when she sits on the couch and snuggles up to him and says "You're here." She just has a peaceful contented smile on her face the entire time. Or Deacon's face during the phone call when she tells him, "I'm sick of missing you" or when he says "We should think about that" during breakfast and looks at her. I seriously wonder how much of it is scripted and how much of it is just Connie and Chip being so damn relieved and happy themselves.

Is it just me or was Connie really happy in every scene with Deacon (Chip) relaxed and content doing her scenes. Both of them smiling at each other saying their lines, and the little nudge from Connie at Maddie's suggesting to Deacon that he should already move in, was it scripted or just a very happy moment, with her eyes saying "I told you so."

[madam magpie]

One of Connie Britton's superpowers (besides the hair, of course) is playing the mom half of a glowing, loving couple. They're just working to her strengths now. Even her hair was lighter and happier in that last scene in the kitchen!

Edited April 17, 2015 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

 

I've wanted Deacon and Rayna to get together for a long time, but I feel it's a cop out to make liver cancer the reason Deacon will never drink again. I think only bad writers feel that an alcoholic character can only relapse or develop a disease that forces him to stop drinking.

 

Hmmm, I'm not sure where you're coming from here Slade. Deacon's been sober for the majority of the time that Maddie's been alive - 15 years or so - with one relapse when he found out about her. He's not drinking again because he made the decision not to (and remakes that decision every day) not because of the cancer. He wasn't forced to stop drinking, he chose to stop. 

 

I have an issue with the cancer storyline overall. While I think Chip is doing a great job acting it out, I hate that they chose liver cancer for him because, of course, he's an alcoholic and that's apparently the only kind of cancer alcoholics can get, regardless of of having years of sobriety under his belt. I feel like the writers feel like they keep having to remind us of that - as if we could forget ;(

Edited April 17, 2015 by Clemgo3165

[Bringonthedrama]

I still like pretty much everyone I always liked, and have to admit...Luke is growing on me. Even Colt is pretty cool, now that he's a hipster.

The thing with Maddie and Rayna should last, though, I think. Much as those of us on the outside see Maddie being adored by her parents (and she is), she was lied to by the people she trusted most for the first thirteen years of her life. Plus, I always got the sense that Maddie worshipped her mother, really admired her and wanted to be like her. So the betrayal was pretty huge, and as a kid, Maddie lacks the perspective and life experience to really understand why Rayna did it. We should see Maddie evolving toward that compassion, with Deacon leading the way, but the fact that the paternity thing still bothers her seems pretty on point to me. (And I say this as someone who's never had any real relationship with her father at all. So rubyred, I get what you're saying. I really do.)

I also don't think that just because Rayna lied about Maddie's paternity that means she can never call Maddie out for lying. Lying to the people you love is almost always a hurtful thing to do. 

Slade: I sort of hear you about the speed. I still wish Rayna had turned down both proposals and spent the entire first half of this season sorting herself out. But alas, I just pretend what we actually saw never happened.

 

 

 

Well said. I agree with MisterS, too, about the way Rayna and Maddie have been written. Rayna does get to be upset if she's lied to, but her tone/self-righteous way about it when approaching Maddie really bugs. I get the sense from Rayna that she expects her girls to just accept and roll with Mom's decisions and justifications, and quickly get over feeling hurt - whether it's why she lied about Deacon being the bio-father, jumping into an engagement and tour with Luke, etc.I feel like Rayna shows zero humility with her daughters, Her desire for an apology from Maddie has a "kiss the ring" (to borrow a church saying) feel to it. I find it interesting, too, that now that Rayna and Deacon are officially together (what she wanted), he's allowed to parent her with Rayna, like regular mom and dad. It wasn't so long ago that Maddie and Colt had a party, Luke, Deacon, Rayna, and Teddy showed up to deal with it, and Rayna dismissed him with something like "Thanks for coming" to Deacon. She and Teddy went to handle Maddie alone, as her two parents.   

 

Rayna absolutely should have turned down both proposals. 

[slade3]

Hmmm, I'm not sure where you're coming from here Slade. Deacon's been sober for the majority of the time that Maddie's been alive - 15 years or so - with one relapse when he found out about here. He's not drinking again because he made the decision not to (and remakes that decision every day) not because of the cancer. He wasn't forced to stop drinking, the chose to stop. 

 

I have an issue with the cancer storyline overall. While I think Chip is doing a great job acting it out, I hate that they chose liver cancer for him because, of course, he's an alcoholic and that's apparently the only kind of cancer alcoholics can get, regardless of of having years of sobriety under his belt. I feel like the writers feel like they keep having to remind us of that - as if we could forget ;(

I meant this in the context of his relationship with Rayna, but I didn't clarify that. When they were together in season 1, it ended when he found out about Maddie and decided to drink and drive. In the next season, I remember a moment when he was tempted to drink again. Wasn't there a bar in his hotel room and he had a fight with someone (Luke?) and he kept staring at the bar. I know I can't be making this up, but I could have sworn there were a few of us who hated that every moment he had with Rayna also came with a sense that he was too volatile, too on-the-edge to be with her. And then, he got cancer. So while he has been sober most of Maddie's life, there was no indication he could remain sober with Rayna as his partner. And I just wish they could have come together without a cancer diagnosis. (I know the writers made Rayna have her revelation about him before she knew he had cancer and I know he was resistant, but I still wish we could have has a reconciliation without an illness.)

[madam magpie]

I didn't get any self-righteousness from Rayna. I got that she was hurt and angry that Maddie had lied to her about having a boyfriend, why she couldn't go to the concert, and where she'd been spending time while Deacon has been stressed and hurt about how upset she is about his illness. All of those feelings seem appropriate under the circumstances. Rayna is the kind of mom who wants to have a very close, open relationship with her kids. We've seen this from her before with the ear piercing/highlights, taking them on tour, flipping out about boarding school, moving them in with her when Teddy started banging hookers, etc. She wants to share their lives, hers and theirs, and she wants to be involved. The fact that she kept Maddie's paternity a secret was a huge contradiction with what she wants. We either empathize with her situation and choices or we don't. But that doesn't change the kind of parent she seems to want to be. To have Maddie hide her first real boyfriend from her mother AND then throw the paternity issue at her would hurt Rayna, whether Maddie's behavior was justified or not. So she told Maddie the truth about how she felt. It was only when Maddie came out swinging with her "I don't respect you" BS that Rayna started doing stressed-out mom things like throwing in punishments she NEVER keeps. Maddie absolutely owed her mother an apology; she lied, was mean, and hurt Rayna's feelings. And just because Rayna did something hurtful to Maddie too, even a big thing, doesn't mean Maddie gets some kind of apology pass.

One thing I really, really liked, though, was that neither Rayna nor Deacon flipped their shit simply because Maddie was making out with Colt. I hate that cliche, that parents of daughters (dads in particular) never want them to grow up and have sexual relationships. So I was thrilled that it never came up, that Rayna and Deacon were both encouraging, and that Colt is being presented as a good kid who genuinely cares for Maddie.

In other news, Sutton, if we're talking Rayna's happiest moments in this episode, I kind of lean toward telling Deacon to "bring our daughter" to the concert. I loved that open acknowledgment.

Slade: I think I get what you mean, actually. There does always seem to be some artificial barrier between the drinking and their relationship, rather than the idea that they've both actually worked through it and Rayna has decided to accept a life with a sober alcoholic.

Edited April 17, 2015 by madam magpie

[candall]

I gutted out 53 minutes of The Maddie Show, waiting for Christina to power up. . . and then it was back to Maddie.  Ugh.

 

Will, please stop being such a doof.  Brokeback Mountain was more than just wardrobe tips, my man.