S05.E22: Reunion Part 3

[renatae]

Y'all are so mean. Kim won't blame Kyle for causing this unless Kyle doesn't loudly backup whatever story is concocted to explain this away. Kyle better hop on Insta-Twitter immediately and get started (assuming she hasn't already).

I did see that Kyle admonished Radar Online, accusing them of inaccuracies and blowing the story out of proportion. Perhaps they did, but I think it's more likely Kyle is in full protection mode.

[Crikey]

It's simple, Kim is to blame! Not her mother, her father, her sisters, her ex's, her kids, her nieces/nephews, her dog, her landlord, her first grade teacher, her first whatever, not even the first person to give her alcohol or drugs, just Kim. It is also no one else's responsibility or duty to get Kim sober/clean, it is Kim's and Kim's decision to do it or not. Their sister dynamic has been affected by Kim's choice to get drunk/high, not because of typical sibling rivalry or petty sibling spats. Kim's addictions have poisoned every aspect of the lives of everyone that loves or cares about her.

I agree.

In my view Kim is 100% responsible for her addiction and Kyle is 100% responsible for her enabling behavior.  

The beauty in those things is that each has total control to change themselves.

IMO Kim started her addiction then Kyle started her enabling behavior.  

If Kim stops, Kyle has nothing to enable however, if Kyle stops Kim  might or might  not.   

[motorcitymom65]

Even when they are a negative constant during the cycle of the addiction? Interesting Kim's life is so intrusive to Kyle's and yet Kyle's so far away from anything involving Kim's struggle and battle with addiction that Kyle isn't really a factor in Kim's battle? Kyle's involved in Kim's addiction only as a victim and someone that has been burdened by it but isn't involved in any way that affects Kim's struggles with it good or bad. That's some serious maneuvering on Kyle's part I tell ya.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. How is it possible for Kyle to have not been involved except as a victim? Aren't her worries that her sister will end up dead, or her fears for the health and safety of her nieces and nephews relevant? Does worrying about someone you love who is causing harm mean the person doing the worrying is playing a victim?

[WireWrap]

That's one theory. Definitely a possibility.

Nowhere in the post that you quoted connects to how you responded so I'm confused as to where quoting my post came into play. Just curious.

Here, Here!!! Love your one sentenced observations by the way.

"We had family feuds and the such but I also applied what I loved about them. I also kept focus of what I loved about them and kept it in perspective." This is from your post and taken along side your other posts this morning about Kyle and how she treats Kim it came across to me as if you were/are saying that Kyle did/does not love Kim, which I find wrong. If that was not your intent, then I am sorry.

 

 I do believe Kyle does love Kim and seeks her approval and love every chance she gets, IMO, Kyle is desperate for Kim to love her and she, Kim, does not. IMO, Kim really loves no one but herself.

[b2H]

Watching the reunion episode on repeat, espcially knowing what happenedjust a few short weeks later, it is abundantly clear that Kim is in an alternate reality. By herself.

[renatae]

Schadenfreude, (which means a gloating joy in another's misery), thy name is Kim. What a gift to us all.

Seriously, after years of watching her abuse and manipulation especially for people who dare to criticize her in any way - this is sweet. My empathy is for her victims.

I honestly think that Kim has NPD, and all of this public exposure over the years has unraveled her. She is such a good manipulator that she believes her own manipulations. She is so entitled that she kicks a police officer. She is so grandiose that she thinks she is the best of the best, and everyone else is just a hater. She has no empathy and cares only about herself. She tells so many lies and she believes all of them. All these things have been on display to the world now; Kim can't blame anyone else for her public image. (Although she will try...) NPD grows best out of the light of day. Once the camera shoved its way into her life, we could all see her for what she really is.

This isn't over.

Yes, unfortunately. As far as her abuse and manipulation of others, it's not reserved for those who criticize her. As Eileen said, "Excuse me for giving a damn." Before Kim turned Lisa's concern for her into a capital crime, Lisa had only concern for her. Of course, you are right in the sense that to Kim, anyone who says anything at all about her actions is "criticizing" her. And apparently she is not to be held accountable for all the horrid things she said to everyone under generally no provocation except that Brandi told her people were talking. Whatever.

[zoeysmom]

So at mid season we were faced with Kim having demons, that according her were not related to her sobriety, involved a third party that put her in harm's way, according to Brandi were passed along to Kyle and she took a bye and according to Kyle can't defend or explain herself because to do so would breach Kim's desire for confidentiality.  This were powerful middle of the night demons and very serious matters according to Brandi.  We sat through a three part Reunion and never learned was caused al of Brandi's anger towards Kyle, what horrible danger Kim was facing, or why Brandi was intent on interfering in the sisters' relationship, however fractured. 

 

What were the factors that caused the fracture to begin with between Kim, Kyle and Brandi?  Obviously only Kim and Brandi can answer it.  I don' think it has to do with Kyle talking with her hands (which is just like hitting someone), or Kyle saying Brandi was a bad parent so is it as simple as Kyle spending the beginning of the season going on fabulous vacations and Kim being stuck at home with Monty, Kingsley and Chad?  Brandi not being invited and being stuck with Kim and stalking JR in the bushes while Yolanda and Kyle have a nice yacht trip? 

 

There just had to be something bigger than we saw and it seems for some reason this cast was unwilling to deliver it so it became the Kim show and the right for her to shout how sober she is and fight dirty.  Ultimately it seems she paid the price for her hubris.

[GreatKazu]

I can tell you from personal experience that the comment You are strong, I could never do it or stay strong when dealing with a life threatening illness isn't helpful. It is an empty phrase. You don't know what you would do and if your child, or you or someone else you love is in this situation, the only way out is through and sometimes denial is a healthy way to get through it. You listen to your medical team and take one day at a time and some days you aren't so strong. So, If someday you think about saying this empty phrase to someone, don't. Just offer your support.

 

 

 

I was actually responding to another poster who stated they were receiving that comment "Be strong" and then mentioned what is the alternative. When it comes to dealing with an addict and any life-threatening situations, there are many emotions one can feel. Not everyone feels strong.

 

To your point about offering support, I agree. Many people need support. Regarding this show, I think Kim can receive support but there is a way to receive it without it falling under the category of enabling. What Kim desires, is for those around her to be her safety net.

 

 

My parents allowed me to drive at age 14/15 around my hometown of BFE back in the 1970's. Not joyriding, but running errands, getting groceries, dropping younger sibs off, etc. as my mother was sick during this period. I knew plenty of other kids who drove underage as well.

Same here. Different era indeed. If it wasn't on my bike, it was in the family car. I get together with this group of friends and one thing we love to chat about is how in our era we did so many things that were perceived as normal, but by today's standards, apparently it would be a call to CPS. It was quite normal for a teenager to drive around by the age of 14. As you posted, it wasn't joyriding although there were some kids who did take it further than most of us. I had a boyfriend when I was 13 years of age. He was 14 years old. His parents let him drive him drive their car all the time. He was everywhere. He and I would go to the burger stand or go to the beach.  If Kyle and Kim were allowed to do the same, it is not shocking to me at all as it was the era we lived in.

Edited April 22, 2015 by GreatKazu

[WireWrap]

Even when they are a negative constant during the cycle of the addiction? Interesting Kim's life is so intrusive to Kyle's and yet Kyle's so far away from anything involving Kim's struggle and battle with addiction that Kyle isn't really a factor in Kim's battle? Kyle's involved in Kim's addiction only as a victim and someone that has been burdened by it but isn't involved in any way that affects Kim's struggles with it good or bad. That's some serious maneuvering on Kyle's part I tell ya.

In my book, unless Kyle is pouring the booze down Kim's throat, forcing Kim to pop pills, then yes, Kyle is a victim of Kim's addiction, as is everyone in Kim's life. Could Kyle handle her reactions to drunk/high Kim better, without a doubt yes but that still does not place the blame on Kyle. The blame lies directly on the head of the addict. (except physical violence, that is never ok).

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

My parents allowed me to drive at age 14/15 around my hometown of BFE back in the 1970's. N

BFE lol this made me laugh and laugh. Loved it.

[GreatKazu]

Possibly, but the childlike nature of the reactions (blanket hiding, fleeing, bursting into tears)  cements them -- to my eye -- as having been developed in childhood. Adults who develop retreat /withdraw tricks in adulthood have different tactics.

Possible. I also figure it has to do with Kim being older than Kyle and treating Kyle in a motherly manner when they were growing up. Technically they are sisters, but Kim could treat Kyle in such a way that comes off more as a parent than a sister at times. When Kim resorts to her finger-pointing at anyone or says, "DON"T!" or "STOP!" she comes off sounding like a mother who is ready to scold a child who is misbehaving. One example is when she and LisaR were on the plane on the way to Amsterdam. Another example of Kim coming off more like a mother than a sister is when Kim was at Kyle's Palm Springs home. After the blow-up and they were in the kitchen preparing dinner, Kim's approach to Kyle came off the same way.  I think this could be why Kyle reacts in a child-like manner when shit hits the fan because she may see Kim as a mother or she may see Kim AS their mother.

 

Another possibility is, Kyle has gotten the wrath of Kim's behavior many times whenever Kim has been high. I liken it to what we refer to one of the teen moms on the Teen Mom thread - "she is going all Hulk" (Incredible Hulk). Kim is definitely not a nice person when she is drunk/high. It likely scares Kyle when she sees Kim going to the dark side and likely begins to panic. It likely brings on some sort of anxiety for her. I imagine it like a child who grows up with an abusive parent. They see that parent getting to that point where they will become loud, lashing out at those around them, the child begins to feel anxious or panic and retreats to a room or some place they feel safe.

Edited April 22, 2015 by GreatKazu

[BlackMamba]

Please Kyle give your kids a normal life!

[zoeysmom]

Please Kyle give your kids a normal life!

I don't BlackMamba, is this giving your 14 year old a normal life?  Photos with Beyoncé-how nice for a 14 year old and of course the obligatory Paris Hilton photo.  It seems the family survived Kim's arrest and got together for a great time in Coachella.  I  think the family really enjoys themselves.  It is something they go to every year and fingers crossed the kids stay grounded.

[erikdepressant]

Please Kyle give your kids a normal life!

I had to mute the scene with Portia being on-camera-cute in the kitchen.  My dinner wasn't gonna stay down otherwise.

[CrinkleCutCat]

Heck, in one of the articles I've read today about her sit down with Dr. (HA!) Phil, Kim even admits that she knew what she was doing last Thursday night. She knew that she was choosing alcohol and [bold] any other substance she may have taken [/bold] over being sober.

Kim has only ever admitted to alcoholism and has never mentioned taking any other drugs (besides Monty's pain pill for 100%pain). Based on the erratic behaviour we have seen her display on this show I think she has also abused other drugs. It will be very interesting if she admits to the 'other substances' many of us suspect she is ab/using. I soooo hope Dr Phil asks her about this because Goddamn Andy doesn't directly ask her.

Edit: as you can see, I tried to bold the words 'any other substance she may have taken'.

Edited April 22, 2015 by CrinkleCutCat

[GreatKazu]

Kim has only ever admitted to alcoholism and has never mentioned taking any other drugs (besides Monty's pain pill for 100%pain). Based on the erratic behaviour we have seen her display on this show I think she has also abused other drugs. It will be very interesting if she admits to the 'other substances' many of us suspect she is ab/using. I soooo hope Dr Phil asks her about this because Goddamn Andy doesn't directly ask her.

Edit: as you can see, I tried to bold the words 'any other substance she may have taken'.

Kim has admitted to taking other drugs, but they were prescribed, according to what she told Dr. Paul when he and Adrienne were still on the show. This was back when she had her lips injected. Just because they are prescribed doesn't mean she doesn't abuse those as well. She likely has prescriptions all over BH from different doctors.

[Giselle]

If I were the cast Kyle included I would refuse to film with her if I perceived her to be drunk or using. If I were Lisa R and Eileen I would not let her into my homes.

[Maharincess]

Hmmm hmmm. I already posted yesterday that Brandi was likely the source for the Radar story about Kyle refusing to talk to Kim after her arrest. She mentioned having friends who work in the tabloids. I don't think she has actual friends. I think she calls them up as a "source" to get some easy cash and throw out some nasty publicity. Brandi can put words in her blog (ghostwriter that is) that she wishes nothing but the best between Kyle and Kim, but that doesn't match her behavior this past season.

This is likely why her family continues to enable her. They have not reached that moment where they say, "We're done" because Kim has not committed any offense or committed any act that they feel is unforgivable. With Kyle, I am hoping the Alexia dog attack issue is her breaking point, but I won't hold my breath.

Spot on. Great job on the 20 years!

My kid being bitten and my family member blaming my child and not taking responsibility would definitely be my breaking point.

I second your congratulations on 20 years sober! My sober date is 12-29-95 so I'm right behind you!

[Chalby]

 Now she wants to talk about how she doesn't feel safe because Rinna sent her text messages that said she needs to be careful and that she's awful to Kyle?

 

Bitch, bye.

Kim and Brandi made special efforts tonight to ensure that the good and honest topics raised and presented were quickly pushed aside by focusing on other areas. They are experts at deflecting any criticisms about their dishonesty. Just Brandi's efforts at avoiding Kyle's direct demand for her to state why she attacked Kyle re: pot smoking when Kyle pointed out she had never said Brandi was a bad mom. Instead of agreeing and admitting she was in attack mode, Brandi started spewing off about other things that had nothing to do with Kyle's question. I still want to know "why" Brandi flipped out on Kyle about pot. Then Kim attacks Kyle for discussing her daughter's bite, but when the ladies focus on Kim and her dog's vicious behaviour, suddenly she pulls the Monty's dying card, and her dog is now her child and not to be discussed. WTF? She can attack others and make wild insinuations, but immediately shuts down when she's called on the carpet. I want both Brandi and Kim off the show!!!

[Chalby]

There just had to be something bigger than we saw and it seems for some reason this cast was unwilling to deliver it so it became the Kim show and the right for her to shout how sober she is and fight dirty.  Ultimately it seems she paid the price for her hubris.

Did you notice that Kim often threatens to 'expose all' but when the other ladies tell her to go ahead, she clams up and claims she won't hurt her family. She's always throwing smokescreens hoping that the attention will be off her and her horrible behaviour. Definitely she had NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) but I would go as far to say even sociopathic as she has no conscience or ability to empathsize with others. Notice how she mocks others' tears, but turns on the waterworks if she wants the ladies to change the topic or feel sorry for her. Blech!!

[Chalby]

Brandy has "grown" a lot in this last season and it's all been her face.

THANK YOU! I thought I was remembering her wrong. What is up with her cheeks - she looks like a chipmunk with full fall storage, lol.

Lisa is killing it now. I'm glad she got her shit together.

Damn Andy has already cancelled her contract. He actually sounds dismissive.  

 

 

****    Do You mean Andy cancelled Rinna? She's amazing and I love her being on the show. Why doesn't he cancel Kim and Brandi???

[Chalby]

 She sends threatening texts and then cries, blames it on her parents, then apologizes and all is forgiven. But! She wants Kim and Brandy to stop doing the exact same thing she was doing. 

I didn't see it this way. She owned her shit, and was embarrassed by it. I agree that bringing out her childhood was unnecessary, but she hardly played the scene - unlike Kim and Brandi. The meeting she had with Kim (during the outtakes show) clearly shows that Kim was hoping to get some drama out of revealing the texts, when it had already been discussed between Lisa R and Kim. By the end of the season, I decided I like Lisa R - she does not hide that she is a celebrity and works at it.

[Chalby]

When Lisa R commented on Kim's scary voice, the hub said "It's the voice of Big Kathy, from the grave."  (Which I guess means the poor guy has been paying attention all along, and I owe him a dinner out or something.)  

Who's Big Kathy?

[Cosmic Muffin]

Big Kathy was the girls' mother, Paris Hilton's mother is known as Little Kathy.

[Chalby]

They should have done away with Andy's chair and just had him snuggle next to his BFF bg.

 

I almost didn't post this thought, but I have to get this forum's followers' opinions. Do you think Andy tiptoes around Brandi because he 'possibly' tells her which pots to stir. Kim is obviously whacked and uncontrollable so he won't get her to stage scenes. But.... maybe he has Brandi working behind the scenes with him? What do you all think?

[GreatKazu]

I don't BlackMamba, is this giving your 14 year old a normal life?  Photos with Beyoncé-how nice for a 14 year old and of course the obligatory Paris Hilton photo.  It seems the family survived Kim's arrest and got together for a great time in Coachella.  I  think the family really enjoys themselves.  It is something they go to every year and fingers crossed the kids stay grounded.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think BlackMamba was referring to Kyle's comment tonight about Portia wanting to act. Kyle prefers Portia not enter into acting and instead, get an education and follow another career path.

[Chalby]

she kind of froze, shook slightly, her face retracted into her neck, and her whole body went white as a sheet. If was beautiful.

I think we should call that 'turtling'. LOL every time Kim doesn't like what's being said, she turtles. (Or Kurtles...?)

[Chalby]

I think it said "Please follow me on Instagram, and spread the word."

It said something about having a slumber party at the hospital

[Chalby]

Wow, Beth almost looks lifelike.

Are you sure that is Bethany Frankel. It doesn't look like her. How tall is Kyle? She must be really small if she is standing next to Bethanny.

[LotusFlower]

It said something about having a slumber party at the hospital

I know! I was just being sarcastic (and taking a jab at Kim).

[zoeysmom]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think BlackMamba was referring to Kyle's comment tonight about Portia wanting to act. Kyle prefers Portia not enter into acting and instead, get an education and follow another career path.

I just thought it was probably exciting for a 14 year old to get up close and personal with Beyonce even if it is with your mom.  I think Kyle was wise to warn Portia she can get her feelings hurt in acting.  Cute scenes.  I think Kyle's kids are fortunate. 

[Chalby]

By Kim's own words, her Dr. told her that she would have died had she not gone to rehab 3 years ago so I do think there is a greater urgency this time around.

Good point. When she talked of being 'sober' for the last 3 years - does everyone believe this. Aside from the pain medication, I could have sworn there were a few times over the last couple of years where Kim seemed out of it. Does anyone else question this 3 years of sobriety?

[Chalby]

DeeplyShallow, thanks for your posts. Brandi's blog for this episode certainly read like a "farewell and goodbye" to me.

 

Later, Brandi! Glad you're leaving; sorry you stayed so long!  ** fingers crossed **

Now that I have finally read most of the posts, I realize that it IS Brandi and not Lisa R being shown the exit. Whew, relief.

[BlackMamba]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think BlackMamba was referring to Kyle's comment tonight about Portia wanting to act. Kyle prefers Portia not enter into acting and instead, get an education and follow another career path.

Im late to this but thats what a I meant. Sorry I wasnt clear enough.

[LIMOM]

Did you notice that Kim often threatens to 'expose all' but when the other ladies tell her to go ahead, she clams up and claims she won't hurt her family. She's always throwing smokescreens hoping that the attention will be off her and her horrible behaviour. Definitely she had NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) but I would go as far to say even sociopathic as she has no conscience or ability to empathsize with others. Notice how she mocks others' tears, but turns on the waterworks if she wants the ladies to change the topic or feel sorry for her. Blech!!

Having no experience with the disorder du jour aka NPD, could it be the disease of addiction speaking?

Too bad DR Drew cancelled the celebrity rehab show, that is where Kim belongs.

When Kim first came out with her line, "I am an alcoholic" she was minimizing her disease, IMO.

I would bet that was her first diagnostic however she uses hard drugs as well, IMO.

She is just so child-like.

[renatae]

I hope Kim does go back to the Cirque Lodge and doesn't, you know, kill herself, which IMO is a real danger right now. Sadly, some people would be gleeful about that...the demon addict getting the lonely and miserable death they deserve at long last. I really can't imagine a more epically humiliating spectacle of falling on her own sword than getting arrested and thrown in the drunk tank and kicking a cop at 50-years-old ONE DAY after Kim Richards' Sobriety Testimony Hour a.k.a the reunion aired. I don't like her but it makes me sad to see anyone self-destruct. Except Hilter, fuck that guy.

 

I haven't read past the above post, so I'm way behind, but I can't say I have seen anyone be "gleeful" at the idea of Kim's death. Snarking about the exposure of the truth about her staunchly defended "sobriety" is one thing, and not to be unexpected since the whole season was Kim defending it and attacking anyone who dared breathe an opinion that it didn't exist, even when they were not "against" her and just concerned. But death wishes? Nope. Haven't seen any of that.

Edited April 22, 2015 by renatae

[Sincerely Yours]

I have to admit, I'm struggling with your posts.  I am trying very hard to keep an open mind but it seems like what you're saying is that, no matter what Kim has done, Kyle is to blame for all of Kim's addictions and/or poor decisions.  I don't know, maybe I'm probably reading them wrong but as I mentioned above, the only person to blame for Kim's problems is Kim.

 

I think I've mentioned here before that my youngest brother and I do not have the greatest relationship.  We did not grow up together (different mothers), saw each other only every few years for most of our lives and with a 7 year age difference did not have a lot in common.  Then I moved to Florida to be closer to my father and family here.  When I first moved here, I lived with them for a little bit.  This did not go very well.  My brother has a lot of issues from his own childhood and suffers from PTSD.  Unfortunately, he used that as an excuse to get drunk and high all the time.  Money went missing from everyone's wallets, credit cards were stolen, no one could have alcohol in the house, etc.  And somehow, in his mind, I was to blame for all of this.  Somehow he felt that our parents (my father and step-mother, who is his mother) chose me over him.  One day, his mother came home to find that he had tried to hang himself - he was unsuccessful thank goodness.  After she was able to get him down and was holding him, he kept saying that it was my fault, that they (our parents) kept choosing me over him.

 

Now I will be the first person to admit that I am not perfect.  I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and have probably not always been the best sister to my youngest brother that I could have been.  But that does not mean that I am to blame, or share in the blame, for his drinking and taking drugs, stealing from the family, etc.  So perhaps it's because of my own personal experiences that I have a hard time with the blame that it seems people want to place on Kyle.  Kim made these choices.  My brother made his choices.  THEY made their choices.  Not Kyle, not me, not anyone else.  So if anyone is to blame, it's themselves.

Oh I completely believe that she's saying this because she's afraid she's about to lose her job.  And she should be afraid.

I don't understand this all or nothing approach to my posts. My point of view is that acting like Kyle doesn't affect Kim, her emotional state, her life, her feelings, is so very confusing to me. My sister, who I have such a close bond to hurts my feelings, makes me feels like less than, is disappointed in me, is embarrassed by me, is disgusted by me etc, etc. that's going to devastate me. Whether or not she has reason to. Just because she has reason to feel these things about me doesn't change how it will make me feel. It isn't about blame. It's about the reality of the affects. Saying that Kim isn affected by Kyle's reactions to her isn't so much as blame but acknowledgement of what Kim may be feeling. Just because it's warranted doesn't mean Kim isn't broken by it, hurt by it, whittled down by it. It's just about understanding cause and affect and in my life and my family just because I had reason to lash out or express complete disgust with my family didn't mean I had to.

 

My point is that I understood when I couldn't handle the struggles and when I was getting very close to getting ugly, nasty and saying things to cut I would decide it was time to detach. Not just for my sake but for my family because I would never in a million years want them to ever think that my heart has gone hollow for them. Express anger, sure. Getting bitchy, yeah done that but when the addiction threatened to claim what I knew to be my treasured feelings of my loved ones? Never, I stepped back before I allowed myself to give off any vibe that suggested I was done or that my disgust has overpowered my unconditional love. I may not have liked them during certain phases of our lives and struggles and they may have cause me grief but I knew that it was a group effort and that I could never ever give off the impression that I would ever stop loving them.

 

 I think it's ridiculous to act like the approval or lack thereof from a beloved family member doesn't have emotional affects. I'm not saying it's not understandable for Kyle to feel the way she does I'm just pointing out the pretty basic common sense that the way Kyle sees and feels about Kim is important to Kim and the fact that Kyle is disgusted embarrassed and resentful of Kim has an emotional affect on her. Kim's addiction isn't Kyles fault but Kyle sticking around to express her disgust, embarrassment, humiliation, at every opportunity doesn't do Kim any favors. Does Kim deserve favors? Well loving my sister and mother unconditional wasn't a favor. That's just what family does. Trying to do everything in MY power not to add to the struggle which included removing myself from the equation when I found my patience lacking. When I found myself ready to hurl nasty insults. When I found myself ready to cut deep using their weaknesses. Yeah, I stepped away and stood away until I was healthy enough to engage again in a positive manner. Whether it took weeks, months, years. I controlled what I could which was MY behavior and actions. It was for their own good and for mine. I just think that Kyle needs to get that insight and start acting accordingly cause Kim needs every angle she can get.

[Sincerely Yours]

My confusion comes from what would constitute positive support to an addict who does not actually want to change? Wouldn't walking away until they asked for help be the best way to help them?

 

 

See that's the tricky part. Whatever support they are choosing to give is up to them. At this point those in her life know what sticking with her entails. They will impose their own line in the sand and if some lines go further than others what can you do? Sometimes it has to be accepted that it is what it is and if you can't be around it then don't but if your fear for the worst can't keep you away then you have to compartmentalize and do your best. But if screaming, shouting, anger, resentment, crying, fighting is all that's happening.. How is that better? What different outcome does anyone expect for Kim Richards. I'm thinking she's never going to be 100% sober and once people realize this then maybe some semblance of management may finally come into play.

[Sincerely Yours]

"We had family feuds and the such but I also applied what I loved about them. I also kept focus of what I loved about them and kept it in perspective." This is from your post and taken along side your other posts this morning about Kyle and how she treats Kim it came across to me as if you were/are saying that Kyle did/does not love Kim, which I find wrong. If that was not your intent, then I am sorry.

 

 I do believe Kyle does love Kim and seeks her approval and love every chance she gets, IMO, Kyle is desperate for Kim to love her and she, Kim, does not. IMO, Kim really loves no one but herself.

No I'm saying that Kyle is allowing the addiction win and letting the addiction overpower her love for her sister cause to me, with all the cowering and looks of disapproval, the wide eye reactions is her deciding that the addiction is what takes center stage when it comes to her emotional state and not the underlying love and caring she has for her sister. She's allowed the addiction to bamboozle her just like Kim has allowed the addiction to overpower her. Hey, I'm sure that Kyle's been broken down too over the years but that doesn't mean anything goes. It means she has to reevaluate not just throw her hands in the air and contribute to the chaos.  When I hold Kyle accountable for certain things it's not that I'm trying to shift responsibility from Kim to Kyle its that I'm holding her accountable for what she too has allowed addiction to do to her and her behavior and how she responds to her sister. That's all. It's hard I know but there's so much emphasize put on Kim is responsible for her own actions, for her own weakness, for her own indulgence in the addiction. Okay, fair enough but Kyle is also responsible and accountable for how she allows herself to indulge in the addiction and how blaming the addiction (in the form of Kim's behavior) absolves her for her and her behavior.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[zoeysmom]

Kim and Brandi made special efforts tonight to ensure that the good and honest topics raised and presented were quickly pushed aside by focusing on other areas. They are experts at deflecting any criticisms about their dishonesty. Just Brandi's efforts at avoiding Kyle's direct demand for her to state why she attacked Kyle re: pot smoking when Kyle pointed out she had never said Brandi was a bad mom. Instead of agreeing and admitting she was in attack mode, Brandi started spewing off about other things that had nothing to do with Kyle's question. I still want to know "why" Brandi flipped out on Kyle about pot. Then Kim attacks Kyle for discussing her daughter's bite, but when the ladies focus on Kim and her dog's vicious behaviour, suddenly she pulls the Monty's dying card, and her dog is now her child and not to be discussed. WTF? She can attack others and make wild insinuations, but immediately shuts down when she's called on the carpet. I want both Brandi and Kim off the show!!!

To me, Brandi chose a path early on to get close with these women and then when they no longer served their purpose with Brandi or she felt discarded by them she would out something she learned about them.  She seemed to think we needed to know someone took a Xanax on the plane.  Short of someone misbehaving on the airplane at the airport why would we need to know about someone taking a Xanax?  Same with the pot it sounded to me as if Kim told Brandi that Kyle had smoked pot.  If she didn't smoke it on the show, didn't engage in disagreeable or shocking behavior while under the influence off camera why is it Brandi thinks everyone needs to know?  The conversation in Amsterdam although silly about spacecakes was benign.  No body claimed to not smoke pot they just were giggling about seeing it on a menu.   Brandi's meltdown was disproportionate to what we saw.  For Brandi to continually be around a group of women who she doesn't like the tone or topic of the conversation means only one thing to me-time to stop hanging out with them. 

 

In retrospect I am sure Brandi is sorry she tied her sobriety to Kim's.  Brandi and Kim do things both on and off camera that land them in jail or in the press and then decide they don't want to talk about it.  Brandi and Kim are too old to continue to try and employ the I don't want to talk about it ploy.  If they want to stop being the center of conversation quit getting toasted and acting like assholes on camera. 

[Sincerely Yours]

In my book, unless Kyle is pouring the booze down Kim's throat, forcing Kim to pop pills, then yes, Kyle is a victim of Kim's addiction, as is everyone in Kim's life. Could Kyle handle her reactions to drunk/high Kim better, without a doubt yes but that still does not place the blame on Kyle. The blame lies directly on the head of the addict. (except physical violence, that is never ok).

There's a difference between blaming and pointing out what Kyle's contributions may be. Blame is so absolute and I try not to include that level of absolution in my posts. Mine are observations of the bigger picture besides just seeing one person in a sea of many.

[mbutterfly]

I don't understand this all or nothing approach to my posts. My point of view is that acting like Kyle doesn't affect Kim, her emotional state, her life, her feelings, is so very confusing to me. My sister, who I have such a close bond to hurts my feelings, makes me feels like less than, is disappointed in me, is embarrassed by me, is disgusted by me etc, etc. that's going to devastate me. Whether or not she has reason to. Just because she has reason to feel these things about me doesn't change how it will make me feel. It isn't about blame. It's about the reality of the affects. Saying that Kim isn affected by Kyle's reactions to her isn't so much as blame but acknowledgement of what Kim may be feeling. Just because it's warranted doesn't mean Kim isn't broken by it, hurt by it, whittled down by it. It's just about understanding cause and affect and in my life and my family just because I had reason to lash out or express complete disgust with my family didn't mean I had to.

 

Let me answer in terms of my own earlier point about younger siblings. I believe, generally, a younger sibling is unlikely to make a significant contribution to someone's becoming an alcoholic/addict. In very broad terms, addiction to a substance is an unhealthy defense mechanism. I do agree that once an individual has become addicted a young sibling can very well contribute to the pain and stress that causes the person to self defend/medicate. IMHO

Edited April 22, 2015 by mbutterfly

[WireWrap]

Good point. When she talked of being 'sober' for the last 3 years - does everyone believe this. Aside from the pain medication, I could have sworn there were a few times over the last couple of years where Kim seemed out of it. Does anyone else question this 3 years of sobriety?

I do not believe she has been sober/clean.

[LIMOM]

There's a difference between blaming and pointing out what Kyle's contributions may be. Blame is so absolute and I try not to include that level of absolution in my posts. Mine are observations of the bigger picture besides just seeing one person in a sea of many.

I think that from my understanding of their relationship is that Kyle and some of her actions are a trigger for Kim.

The fact that Kim is an addict doesn't give carte blanche for Kyle to be an asshole toward her sister.

In any case,I never bought Kyle goodie two shoes act,

Girl is friend with the morally bankrupt Faye and was an actress in the 80's lol.

[QuinnM]

 

I think that from my understanding of their relationship is that Kyle and some of her actions are a trigger for Kim.

 

It is important to remember that everything is a trigger for Kim.  She is an addict.  The sun or the rain.  Kyle or Kingsley.  A good day or a bad day.  There is nothing anyone can do for Kim.  Let's take Kyle.  If Kyle is in Kim's life it's a trigger.  If Kyle is out of Kim's life its a trigger.  If Kyle changes everything she says and does for Kim it's a trigger.  I believe Kyle has been going to Al-Anon and if she has that is what she's learned.  To protect herself and her family she needs to just ignore Kim the addict.

[LIMOM]

It is important to remember that everything is a trigger for Kim.  She is an addict.  The sun or the rain.  Kyle or Kingsley.  A good day or a bad day.  There is nothing anyone can do for Kim.  Let's take Kyle.  If Kyle is in Kim's life it's a trigger.  If Kyle is out of Kim's life its a trigger.  If Kyle changes everything she says and does for Kim it's a trigger.  I believe Kyle has been going to Al-Anon and if she has that is what she's learned.  To protect herself and her family she needs to just ignore Kim the addict.

Well, the. One of them or both(please) has to leave the show, then.

[Sincerely Yours]

It is important to remember that everything is a trigger for Kim.  She is an addict.  The sun or the rain.  Kyle or Kingsley.  A good day or a bad day.  There is nothing anyone can do for Kim.  Let's take Kyle.  If Kyle is in Kim's life it's a trigger.  If Kyle is out of Kim's life its a trigger.  If Kyle changes everything she says and does for Kim it's a trigger.  I believe Kyle has been going to Al-Anon and if she has that is what she's learned.  To protect herself and her family she needs to just ignore Kim the addict.

Absolutely but I feel that Kyle should pick the trigger that works best for her family. If everything is going to be a trigger then choose the trigger that will cause more stability in her family. Not take her away from her loved ones or cause her to become a angry, hurt, resentful version of herself. That's the route she should be taking and because she doesn't is the reason why I do give her the side eye from time to time. I know it sounds awful to say but damn if she doesn't let a bit of the façade slip a bit. Not saying she hasn't obviously had her share of turmoil and angst at the hands of Kim's addiction but damn if you can't sometimes see the sheer pleasure of sticking it to Kim on occasion. I mean sometimes there's this intense sense of revenge. It's quick and not ALL the time and it may only last 5 seconds but over the seasons when it does appear it's like its dripping off my screen. It leaves me so cold, which is why I KNOW I'm not imagining it. 

[pbutler111]

In my view Kim is 100% responsible for her addiction and Kyle is 100% responsible for her enabling behavior. 

The beauty in those things is that each has total control to change themselves.

IMO Kim started her addiction then Kyle started her enabling behavior. 

If Kim stops, Kyle has nothing to enable however, if Kyle stops Kim  might or might  not.

 

If Kyle were Kim's enabler, Kim would be embracing her, not rejecting her. Instead, Kim says, "Kathy would never treat me this way!" I think attention gets focused on Kyle because Kyle and Kim are on the show together.  But the fact that Kim is constantly lashing out at Kyle suggests to me that Kyle confronts and challenges Kim on her addictions, while Kathy -- who Kim keeps holding up as an example of how sisterly love should look -- is far more likely to be the one coddling Kim, away from the cameras.

[MatildaMoody]

See that's the tricky part. Whatever support they are choosing to give is up to them. At this point those in her life know what sticking with her entails. They will impose their own line in the sand and if some lines go further than others what can you do? Sometimes it has to be accepted that it is what it is and if you can't be around it then don't but if your fear for the worst can't keep you away then you have to compartmentalize and do your best. But if screaming, shouting, anger, resentment, crying, fighting is all that's happening.. How is that better? What different outcome does anyone expect for Kim Richards. I'm thinking she's never going to be 100% sober and once people realize this then maybe some semblance of management may finally come into play.

I don't know. It seems to me that the only options you have when dealing with an addict is to either walk away or enable and your explanation seems to say the same. What you are describing is just letting the addict use while hiding your own feelings of hurt, anger, or resentment about it. Which is enabling the behavior and providing no consequence to the addict. I just don't see how any management is going to come into play. An addict's nature is "more more more." So it will continue to escalate rather than maintain until the addict dies. 

[slitz]

http://www.nellkalter.com/blog/plastered-at-the-polo-lounge

 

This blog sums up what I think most of us have been saying for weeks now in regards to Kim, especially the paragraph below.

 

 

Even though I found her odd and not at all funny or interesting, I initially felt some sadness for Kim Richards.  I think my empathy reached its height early this season when the women went to a wine tasting and Kim slowly stirred a mango smoothie at the end of the bar and then quietly got up and removed herself from the awkwardness and went outside and called her daughter.  But that sadness is gone now.  I do not feel badly for Kim; I can probably muster up some empathy, but doing so makes me feel like I’m doing squats.  See, Kim has spent all season – actually, she has spent the entire series doing this, but it reached its hideous pinnacle this last season – deflecting attention away from her relapse and her inability to hold herself accountable for her actions by striking out so viciously against everybody else that it has almost rendered me stunned – and when you’re somebody like me who has watched reality television since its inception, it takes a lot to be shocked.  Kim managed to do it though, and I sat appalled by her toxicity and her power to manipulate.  When she felt vulnerable, she reacted by screaming and pointing in someone’s pale face.  She hinted and implied that she knew secrets, life-ruining secrets, about anyone who even looked at her with a hint of suspicion.  She wondered aloud to cameras why people tried to get into her business.  She laughed when other women cried.  She blamed the mauling her niece underwent by her untrained dog on her niece and then hinted that she had hidden and damaging secrets about her own sister’s child in order to direct the attention elsewhere.  She decided that Brandi Glanville, perhaps the most uncouth homosapien to ever grace a high-definition television screen, was her very best friend in the whole wide world and looked the other way while that friend called her sister a cunt and threatened to knock her teeth out.  And then she proclaimed that she has never struggled with her sobriety after being an addict for decade after decade, a statement that caused every person who has even been on the brink of addiction to say to themselves and to each other, “What the fuck?”