Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[Snow Apple]

I saw clips of Web of Dreams and thought "Is that Jason Priestley? Why does he look so young?!" I swear we all went back in time.

Came here and found out it's another actor. Who previously played Jason Priestley. LOL 

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, racked said:

Web of Dreams was my favorite of the Casteel series. I know it wasn't actually written by VC Andrews and there are a lot of continuity problems, but I loved Leigh as a character so 

It was mine as well. Leigh's story was so tragic. Selfish narcissist for a mother, a father too preoccupied with his business interests and a stepfather who was a total pervert. She was so naive and sheltered, she was practically a sitting duck for a loser like Luke Casteel. 

[Snow Apple]

I don't remember what happened to Leigh's father. Did he just disappear from the picture? They adored each other......then nothing. Was he still alive when Heaven showed up?

[Steph Sometimes]

I actually didn't mind the Annie actress. I thought she was better than Heaven.

I haven't read the books in decades. Did we get a reason why the nurse was so awful?

I laughed at Annie being all over her brother two seconds into the movie.

I had to pause the movie a few times to remember the myriad ways everyone was related to each other.

And...did anyone else get a gay vibe from Drake? He's another character I remember nothing about.

On to poor Leigh...

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I don't remember what happened to Leigh's father. Did he just disappear from the picture? They adored each other......then nothing. Was he still alive when Heaven showed up?

I think he passed away several years after Leigh fled Farthinggale. Tony mentioned it to Heaven when she first arrived in Boston, but my history is a tad hazy on the specifics.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I don't remember what happened to Leigh's father. Did he just disappear from the picture? They adored each other......then nothing. Was he still alive when Heaven showed up?

Once Jillian left Leigh's father (or "father" since it turned out that Cleave Van Voreen was not Leigh's biological father), he was pretty much out of the picture. Leigh lived at Farthy and Cleave was away on business a lot. He owned a line of cruise ships so he was always visiting new places to determine if the cruises should stop at different destinations.

He only saw her a handful of times after Leigh moved to Farthy. She definitely saw him once shortly after she started school at Winterhaven. After that he wrote her often while he was traveling but he was not nearby much. She saw him a few more times after he met someone else and got married (he didn't tell Leigh that he got married until afterward which she was understandably upset about). By that time, Tony was molesting Leigh. She wanted to tell Cleave in the hopes that he could help her, and that's when he showed up with his new wife. She didn't feel comfortable telling Cleave what Tony was doing in front of Mildred, so her last hope for help disappeared. After that, he wrote and called much less frequently. Every time he was supposed to be in town and see her, something would come up.

In Dark Angel, Tony told Heaven that Cleave died two years earlier.

[CountryGirl]

12 hours ago, BitterApple said:

It was mine as well. Leigh's story was so tragic. Selfish narcissist for a mother, a father too preoccupied with his business interests and a stepfather who was a total pervert. She was so naive and sheltered, she was practically a sitting duck for a loser like Luke Casteel. 

Web of Dreams is my second favorite (and who would have thought that considering it was written by Neiderman) but it was a close shave between that one and my #1, Dark Angel. 

[Daisy]

On 8/19/2019 at 5:17 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had to laugh when Annie was complaining about the nurse being too rough with the loofah. I LOVE exfoliating so I would have told her to keep scrubbing - especially on my back since I can't reach every inch of skin on my own.

mine too. i am like, someone wants to scrub your back? shut up and say thank you!

I'm nearly done watching it and I have to say the issue i have with Luke and Annie is more of - the two of them were raised brother and sister. so it didn't matter that Annie was really Troy's or whatever (which i always have to laugh - it was always just assumed that Annie was Troy's, but she was newly married, so it always felt like. i'll wish v. hard that Annie is Troy's - ignoring the fact that any physical resemblance to Troy could also be because Tory is Tony's  brother, and that's Heaven's father - so basically no paternity test, just a lot of assumption) - that they had romantic-ish feelings for each other. 

that's just scuzzy. like where did these feelings come from, and why were y'all so eager to be like "let's try to just ignore it?" (you weren't locked in an Attic for 3 years, y'all. no excuses). 

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

mine too. i am like, someone wants to scrub your back? shut up and say thank you!

I'm nearly done watching it and I have to say the issue i have with Luke and Annie is more of - the two of them were raised brother and sister. so it didn't matter that Annie was really Troy's or whatever (which i always have to laugh - it was always just assumed that Annie was Troy's, but she was newly married, so it always felt like. i'll wish v. hard that Annie is Troy's - ignoring the fact that any physical resemblance to Troy could also be because Tory is Tony's  brother, and that's Heaven's father - so basically no paternity test, just a lot of assumption) - that they had romantic-ish feelings for each other. 

that's just scuzzy. like where did these feelings come from, and why were y'all so eager to be like "let's try to just ignore it?" (you weren't locked in an Attic for 3 years, y'all. no excuses). 

And it gets even more squicky with the Dawn/Cutler series as Dawn ends up marrying Jimmy, the boy she presumed was her brother and was raised with until her mid-teens. And this after being raped by her biological brother after he knew they were related (but before they knew, there was a lot of makeout/grope sessions). 

[Daisy]

16 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

And it gets even more squicky with the Dawn/Cutler series as Dawn ends up marrying Jimmy, the boy she presumed was her brother and was raised with until her mid-teens. And this after being raped by her biological brother after he knew they were related (but before they knew, there was a lot of makeout/grope sessions). 

yeah that bugged me. (and it was the same with Rain). 
like it's always played off as 'oh i always knew you weren't my brother, so let's get it on." and it's like. no. if i found out i wasn't related to my brother, my first thought wouldn't be "oh that's fantastic because he's hot, and i can get with him now." he's still be my brother. 

like i know it's just LGTS (Lazy Ghostwriter Trope Syndrome) doubling down on the relationship between siblings stuff because of Audrina and Dolls (and to an extent Heaven and Troy) but the thing was i just feel he completely missed the plot.

Cathy and Chris if not for the attic would have never been together. Period. the book flat out shows that they were normal in every sense of the world, and then being in the attic, going through puberty learning about sexuality basically from porn magazines and your sister developing, having your love/faith destroyed by your mother and the only one who gets it is your sister/brother - that's why they turned to each other. (and Cathy kept fighting it, until there was literally no one left, and Chris quite frankly browbeat her). 

Heaven and Troy had zero idea they were related because no one knew that Tony molested and raped Leigh and because of Heaven's lying it wasn't caught in time. and yeah - they had a one last night together (squicky - but at least you can forgive them because they fell in love and had feelings before they found out and that was the last time, probably because Troy had sense in his head to stay away from Heaven)

Dawn and Jimmy had no excuses. Jimmy was always hot for Dawn which was and Dawn deciding to date Jimmy because now he's not related was dumb and gross. 

the only thing Jimmy had going for him is that unlike every other Brother  - he never raped his sister. 

[Snow Apple]

Annie and Luke always creeped me out too. I can't imagine finding any of my cousins attractive. Gross. 

Is it me or was Drake macking on Annie too? When I read the book, I was like "What the hell is going on?!" because the previous poster is correct that they were not locked in an atttic depending on only each other. It's like the ghostwriter threw that in because he thinks V.C. Andrews = incest. Never mind that V.C. pulled away from that theme with Audrina 

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Annie and Luke always creeped me out too. I can't imagine finding any of my cousins attractive. Gross. 

Is it me or was Drake macking on Annie too? When I read the book, I was like "What the hell is going on?!" because the previous poster is correct that they were not locked in an atttic depending on only each other. It's like the ghostwriter threw that in because he thinks V.C. Andrews = incest. Never mind that V.C. pulled away from that theme with Audrina 

45 minutes ago, Daisy said:

yeah that bugged me. (and it was the same with Rain). 
like it's always played off as 'oh i always knew you weren't my brother, so let's get it on." and it's like. no. if i found out i wasn't related to my brother, my first thought wouldn't be "oh that's fantastic because he's hot, and i can get with him now." he's still be my brother. 

like i know it's just LGTS (Lazy Ghostwriter Trope Syndrome) doubling down on the relationship between siblings stuff because of Audrina and Dolls (and to an extent Heaven and Troy) but the thing was i just feel he completely missed the plot.

Cathy and Chris if not for the attic would have never been together. Period. the book flat out shows that they were normal in every sense of the world, and then being in the attic, going through puberty learning about sexuality basically from porn magazines and your sister developing, having your love/faith destroyed by your mother and the only one who gets it is your sister/brother - that's why they turned to each other. (and Cathy kept fighting it, until there was literally no one left, and Chris quite frankly browbeat her). 

Heaven and Troy had zero idea they were related because no one knew that Tony molested and raped Leigh and because of Heaven's lying it wasn't caught in time. and yeah - they had a one last night together (squicky - but at least you can forgive them because they fell in love and had feelings before they found out and that was the last time, probably because Troy had sense in his head to stay away from Heaven)

Dawn and Jimmy had no excuses. Jimmy was always hot for Dawn which was and Dawn deciding to date Jimmy because now he's not related was dumb and gross. 

the only thing Jimmy had going for him is that unlike every other Brother  - he never raped his sister. 

I agree with you both. Heaven and Troy I 100% got because they were not raised as uncle/niece, didn’t know they were related and fell in love before hand. I can even understand the one last sex session because “feelings”.

Cathy and Chris I got because of the abuse/isolation they suffered during their teenage years together- this made sense. 

Annie and Luke?? Made no sense. They grew up being raised as brother/sister AND cousins. Where in the hell did the sexual attraction come from?!!! I know in a large part of the world first cousins is no big deal (that’s too close in my opinion, you share grandparents, second cousins is too close for my tastes but at least now there’s more genetic diversity in the population so it’s not as squicky. )

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

the only thing Jimmy had going for him is that unlike every other Brother  - he never raped his sister. 

Such a low bar...but such is the world of VCA. Well, the ghostwriter.

Somewhat of a tangent...

I know he GW Garden of Shadows and the last 2-3 Heaven books (using her outlines), but I honestly wish after that that Virgina's executors or whoever would have pulled the plug and stopped using her name and tarnishing her legacy to keep churning out a profit. Possibly UO but maybe not.

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

but I honestly wish after that that Virgina's executors or whoever would have pulled the plug and stopped using her name and tarnishing her legacy to keep churning out a profit. Possibly UO but maybe not.

Definitely NOT an unpopular opinion.

Y'aaaaalllll...I'm having so much fun reading everyone's comments--they sound better than the books! I keep telling myself, I will not, will not, will NOT, go back and read Dark Angel, Heaven, etc. or Flowers, Petals, Thorns, Seeds, Garden....nopenopenope!

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Such a low bar...but such is the world of VCA. Well, the ghostwriter.

Somewhat of a tangent...

I know he GW Garden of Shadows and the last 2-3 Heaven books (using her outlines), but I honestly wish after that that Virgina's executors or whoever would have pulled the plug and stopped using her name and tarnishing her legacy to keep churning out a profit. Possibly UO but maybe not.

it isn't, a LOT ofpeople feel the same way. 
I will say - I personally really enjoyed the Cutler series (even though Dawn was dumb, but only because I loved Gramma Cutler  - because you know, Dawn was dumb). 
 

It wouldn't even be so bad - truly if the books were legitimately good. the series that flat seriously made me go why am I still doing this was the Wildflowers. (what really killed it was the Debeers/Rain series. both of those series were flat out stupid and I am like nope. the end)

 

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Definitely NOT an unpopular opinion.

Y'aaaaalllll...I'm having so much fun reading everyone's comments--they sound better than the books! I keep telling myself, I will not, will not, will NOT, go back and read Dark Angel, Heaven, etc. or Flowers, Petals, Thorns, Seeds, Garden....nopenopenope!

LOL
I tend to read them once every few years. (if nto read, audiobook'em). it's a good bathtub read, or "I really don't want to read anything that requires much thought). 

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Annie and Luke always creeped me out too. I can't imagine finding any of my cousins attractive. Gross. 

Is it me or was Drake macking on Annie too? When I read the book, I was like "What the hell is going on?!" because the previous poster is correct that they were not locked in an atttic depending on only each other. It's like the ghostwriter threw that in because he thinks V.C. Andrews = incest. Never mind that V.C. pulled away from that theme with Audrina 

it was def. written that Drake was jealous of Luke (because of Annie). 
it was just wrong. I'm legit surprised he didn't try to do something to annie too. the way he was acting (I always felt that Drake was the protoype for Philip). 

[andromeda331]

Yeah, I always had a problem with Annie and Luke getting together along with Dawn and Jimmy for the exact same reason. They were raised as siblings. That was all they knew. It doesn't matter they weren't related by blood. They were raised as siblings. Its not as if they were stepsiblings or thought either one was adopted. No, they always were in love and wanting each other and could be together when Troy told her he was her father. That changes nothing.

Heaven and Troy makes sense as you all pointed out they didn't know they were related. They knew at most they were steprelated but that didn't matter since they didn't grow up together. I wouldn't have minded if they ended up together despite that because of that. 

While I have no doubt Christopher would have ended up a really creepy person do to him being in love with his mother. He was that before the attic and it was really creepy. Cathy would never ended up with him if not for the attic. That changed everything all of the abuse they endured together and the death of Cory, and what came afterwards. If not for that Cathy would have left home for ballet and ended up with someone else and had a fairly normal life. 

[Scarlett45]

Is lifetime doing the Cutler series? I haven’t read that one (any of them). I did read Black Cat, Gates of Paradise and the entire Dollanganger series. 

[Daisy]

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Is lifetime doing the Cutler series? I haven’t read that one (any of them). I did read Black Cat, Gates of Paradise and the entire Dollanganger series. 

I hope they do - only so it's something else to snark with all of you. 

I finished Gates of Paradise. 
Honestly, i tend to black out Annie's book  - but 

No Fanny Rescue (BOO)
Tony.... didn't have a gun?
Troy had panic attacks now leaving Farthy? (huh?)

i have no idea how they are going to handle Web of Dreams tho. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITA about Cathy/Chris and Heaven/Troy vs Annie, Dawn, and the other ghostwritten characters who ended up with their brothers.

Unlike Annie and Luke, Cathy and Chris were not always drawn to each other. For the first half or so of FITA, they have a normal sibling relationship where they squabble and fight and don't really see each other much differently than they see Corey and Carrie. It's the trauma of everything their mother and grandmother do to them that pushes them together. As Cathy says many times, Chris would never be able to trust another woman after what their mother did to them.

As for Cathy, all you have to do is look at her other non-Chris relationships to see that she was just as damaged. There was abusive rapist Julian, father figure Paul who was more than twice her age, and her mother's husband Bart. Not exactly the healthiest choices. And really, she was with Julian and Paul because she thought it would free Chris from loving her and let him try to let him live a normal life with someone else.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are Heaven and Troy who did not grow up together and believed that they were not blood related to each other. In real life, I've known couples who met as adults and were technically related through marriage (two of these couples were step-siblings!) and they have had long happy marriages so at the beginning, there was nothing wrong with Heaven falling in love with her mother's stepfather's brother. Once they found out that they were related, of course they didn't just immediately stop loving each other.

And then you have Annie and Luke (and all the other "you're my brother/no you're not really my brother" couples in the ghostwritten books). They grew up believing that they were brother and sister and fighting their attraction to each other. WHAT THE WHAT?

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On the opposite end of the spectrum are Heaven and Troy who did not grow up together and believed that they were not blood related to each other. In real life, I've known couples who met as adults and were technically related through marriage (two of these couples were step-siblings!) and they have had long happy marriages so at the beginning, there was nothing wrong with Heaven falling in love with her mother's stepfather's brother. Once they found out that they were related, of course they didn't just immediately stop loving each other.

Eh? How does Troy being Heaven's stepfather's brother make them related? There's no blood ties. And Jeebus, why did I think that Heaven and Troy ended up together after all? But they didn't? 

Unless her stepdaddy wasn't her stepdaddy, but bio daddy?

Color me confuseded. (No, that's NOT a typo!)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

How does Troy being Heaven's stepfather's brother make them related?

It doesn’t which is why I said there was nothing wrong with them falling in love when they thought that they were only tenuously related by marriage. Minor correction: Tony was introduced as Heaven’s step-grandfather (not her step-father). He was Leigh’s step-father. 

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Unless her stepdaddy wasn't her stepdaddy, but bio daddy?

Heaven’s step-grandfather turned out to be her bio dad. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It doesn’t which is why I said there was nothing wrong with them falling in love when they thought that they were only tenuously related by marriage. Minor correction: Tony was introduced as Heaven’s step-grandfather (not her step-father). He was Leigh’s step-father. 

Ah. Sorry. It's early, I took my pain meds too late last night and I'm still groggy/loopy, so I misunderstood your post!

4 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heaven’s step-grandfather turned out to be her bio dad. 

Aahhh. Okay, that makes sense now.

But for some reason, I keep remembering that I loved Troy. Why would that be? He was a good guy, right? Didn't VC always have at least one good guy? My Sweet Audrina is the one exception for obvious reasons. That twat Audrina said at the end, that she'd give Arden chance after chance until they lived happily ever after because she wuved him. Or some such twaddle.

[Ohiopirate02]

While I do think the ghostwriter went too far with incest showing up in multiple series, it still is a trope of gothic literature.  It did become overkill, and I stopped reading any VC Andrews midway through the Logan series because I was getting tired of the over use of plot elements.  I read the Cutler series before Heaven, so I  prefer that series.  The books had many of the gothic plot elements that I enjoy--Secrets of the Morning was my jam.  Dawn our ingenue getting seduced by her teacher, her pregnancy,  banishment to evil Aunt Emily and the nice but simple aunt, being held captive in the decaying family home, and her rescue by Jimmy the knight in shining armor.  I know all of this are tropes that have been done to death, but this was my first time reading them all together.  I feel the same way about My Sweet Audrina.  The reveal in that one has also been done to death in other books, but nothing can compare to it.

As to Annie and Luke growing up together and falling for each other, I want to blame Emily Bronte but know it is really people who don't know how to read Wuthering Heights.  I can forgive one instance, but when it showed up in more than one series, I was not happy.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

18 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I keep remembering that I loved Troy. Why would that be? He was a good guy, right? Didn't VC always have at least one good guy? My Sweet Audrina is the one exception for obvious reasons. That twat Audrina said at the end, that she'd give Arden chance after chance until they lived happily ever after because she wuved him. Or some such twaddle.

Yes, Troy was the nice guy in the Heaven series. He was the only man in Heaven's life who wasn't a rapist (Tony), a cheater (Luke, Logan), or a manipulative asshole (Cal plus all of the above).

Tom and grandpa were also nice guys but we mostly saw them in the first book, barely at all in the second book, and then both of them died. Tom was probably the nicest male character that VCA ever created. He was supportive and loving without being creepy or possessive.

Just thinking about Arden makes me mad. He saw Audrina get raped as a child yet felt perfectly fine pressuring her to have sex because it was his husbandly right and justified cheating on her with her own sister because obviously he couldn't survive without putting his penis in someone. In my mind, My Sweet Audrina ends when she gets into the car. In my version, the last two pages don't exist and she gets the fuck out of there!

Did you read the awful sequel to MSA? Arden became even worse, which seems about right.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes, Troy was the nice guy in the Heaven series. He was the only man in Heaven's life who wasn't a rapist (Tony), a cheater (Luke, Logan), or a manipulative asshole (Cal plus all of the above).

Tom and grandpa were also nice guys but we mostly saw them in the first book, barely at all in the second book, and then both of them died. Tom was probably the nicest male character that VCA ever created. He was supportive and loving without being creepy or possessive.

Just thinking about Arden makes me mad. He saw Audrina get raped as a child yet felt perfectly fine pressuring her to have sex because it was his husbandly right and justified cheating on her with her own sister because obviously he couldn't survive without putting his penis in someone. In my mind, My Sweet Audrina ends when she gets into the car. In my version, the last two pages don't exist and she gets the fuck out of there!

Did you read the awful sequel to MSA? Arden became even worse, which seems about right.

That's exactly why I hate Arden too. He knew what happened to her and still acts like an asshole. She leaves him and her father behind in my mind too for a much better place and both men end up shoved down the stairs before or after she leaves I'm not picky. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes, Troy was the nice guy in the Heaven series. He was the only man in Heaven's life who wasn't a rapist .

<snip>

Just thinking about Arden makes me mad. He saw Audrina get raped as a child yet felt perfectly fine pressuring her to have sex because it was his husbandly right and justified cheating on her with her own sister because obviously he couldn't survive without putting his penis in someone. In my mind, My Sweet Audrina ends when she gets into the car. In my version, the last two pages don't exist and she gets the fuck out of there!

Did you read the awful sequel to MSA? Arden became even worse, which seems about right.

Good to know that my memory of Troy was accurate!

There was a SEQUEL??!!! Hell no I wouldn’t read it!

[Snow Apple]

9 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

There was a SEQUEL??!!! Hell no I wouldn’t read it!

Arden was a weak cowardly duchebag but it sounded like the ghostwriter ramped it up to cartoon villain. Not that I read the book. The summary was enough for me to avoid avoid avoid.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

51 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

There was a SEQUEL??!!! Hell no I wouldn’t read it!

It was written by the ghost writer so it is not at all surprising that it was complete garbage. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It was written by the ghost writer so it is not at all surprising that it was complete garbage. 

I believe that. Because this is the same HACK who undid Corey's death/murder.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I believe that. Because this is the same HACK who undid Corey's death/murder.

I hate, hate, hate that he did that. It was so stupid! That was driving force of everything! Its what finally convinced Christopher they had to get out of there, it was driving force behind Cathy's revenge and why she couldn't let it go, and what destroyed Carrie. It also makes no sense for Corinne's and Olivia's part they took him away when he was seriously ill and it makes sense they let him die and Cathy found his body when she returned to Foxworth Hall in the second book to out her mother. 

[Snow Apple]

I never read those books so I don't know how or why Cory is alive, but did Corrine know? If she does, her actions in her later life wouldn't make sense.

Not that making sense matters because I don't accept those books as canon. Stupid hack.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Not that making sense matters because I don't accept those books as canon. Stupid hack.

Ha, same here. I view the Christopher Diaries and the Audrina sequel as shitty fanfic.

[JAYJAY1979]

Tonight is Web of dreams..and while I liked the book...I kind of wish it was from Jillian's pov... and I wonder if V.C. Andrews was planning for that..or if there was even a prequel planned by her before she passed.

https://youtu.be/CyxenxiA_UY

[andromeda331]

24 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Tonight is Web of dreams..and while I liked the book...I kind of wish it was from Jillian's pov... and I wonder if V.C. Andrews was planning for that..or if there was even a prequel planned by her before she passed.

https://youtu.be/CyxenxiA_UY

I've wondered if that was the case too. We really could have skipped Annie's book nothing happened and nothing was revealed. Web of Dreams I liked a lot but it also revealed that Jillian didn't only know about all of it and that Leigh was pregnant but she set it up. There was a lot left for them to do a book from Jillian's point of view including who Leigh's father really was and setting up Cleave. Maybe Leigh's bio dad was the reason she did what  she did in both cases. Maybe he promised her riches and take care of her and bolted after she said she was pregnant. Maybe he dumped her for a younger and more beautiful woman.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

36 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Maybe Leigh's bio dad was the reason she did what  she did in both cases. Maybe he promised her riches and take care of her and bolted after she said she was pregnant. Maybe he dumped her for a younger and more beautiful woman.  

Jillian's mom mentioned that he was a local nobody which is why she found Cleave for Jillian to marry after she got pregnant.

[TattleTeeny]

I just started watching but I fail to believe that Kelly Rutherford could not have pulled off Young Jillian!

[STFUFrank]

Why does Leigh have brown hair?! Leigh had blonde hair. 

[Snow Apple]

I can't take the casting anymore. Not only is Leigh's hair wrong but she's suppose to be this dainty little thing. This actress is fine looking but she's not Leigh.

At least she looks older than 12. I don't think I can watch an actress who looks like Leigh's actual age.

[meatball77]

Ok, the guy playing tony really is good at impersonating Jason Presley. . . .

[STFUFrank]

That's not how this goes! She never made it to her grandmothers! 

[Scarlett45]

I’m watching Web of Dreams now,  Jillian is SUFFICIENTLY creepy and I’m only 15minutes in. 

On 8/24/2019 at 7:56 PM, TotalHellion said:

Why does Leigh have brown hair?! Leigh had blonde hair. 

Yes. Heaven was supposed to be the spit of her mother but with dark hair. Leigh has silvery blonde hair hair no? Why not have the actress who played Heaven play Leigh??

On 8/24/2019 at 8:13 PM, Snow Apple said:

I can't take the casting anymore. Not only is Leigh's hair wrong but she's suppose to be this dainty little thing. This actress is fine looking but she's not Leigh.

At least she looks older than 12. I don't think I can watch an actress who looks like Leigh's actual age.

I figured they would cast a thin petite adult actress with a baby face, someone 18-21 but who looked younger than years, but old enough so that we would know she wasn't a child. I haven’t read this book- was this really supposed to be Leigh’s coming out party? She was 12! Girls debuted at these things between 16 and 21 (in the 1950s likely 18), not TWELVE. Oh my. 

[Kiki777]

This guy was a much better Tony Tatterton- he had that creepy/charismatic thing down whereas Jason P was kinda comical.

[BitterApple]

Ten minutes in and I'm already annoyed. 

Jillian didn't sleep with Tony before marriage and Leigh never had a coming out party. Leigh met Tony on her father's ship, not at Farthy. I also don't recall Cleave being near bankrupcy. 

I figured they would age Leigh up a bit to lessen the ick factor. 

One thing they are getting right is Jillian's obsession with youth and beauty, as well as her shameless social climbing.

[FancyRhubarb]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Jillian didn't sleep with Tony before marriage and Leigh never had a coming out party. Leigh met Tony on her father's ship, not at Farthy. I also don't recall Cleave being near bankrupcy. 

I don't know if he was bankrupt but air travel was really starting to take off and travelling by cruise ship was starting to become obsolete. That was one of the reasons he was always gone. , I thought the most devastating part of the book was Leigh desperately pinning all her escape hopes post rape on her father coming home. And then she got that call by a secretary or something cancelling and saying he wouldn't be home for months. That was when she fled. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I also don't recall Cleave being near bankrupcy.

1 hour ago, ChateauCardboard said:

I don't know if he was bankrupt but air travel was really starting to take off and travelling by cruise ship was starting to become obsolete. That was one of the reasons he was always gone. ,

Cleave definitely wasn't bankrupt in the books. He was concerned about the company because cruise ship travel was in decline, but he wasn't broke. He still had his big fancy house and if he'd been desperate for money, he would have sold it. He was trying to find new destinations and travel routes to entice people to take cruises which is why he started traveling more often in Web of Dreams. He was checking out new cities as potential places for his ships to visit. He was delighted when Mildred suggested Alaska as a new route.

[andromeda331]

I have to start with leaving out the scene when Leigh finally goes off on her mother after her pregnancy, she really tears into her mother pointing out that her mother arranged all of it, modeling for Tony, and doing so nude so that awesome (and terrible) remark about personally selected mistress. It was a great scene, it confirmed completely that Jillian set it up, and Leigh tears into and keeps yelling that she's going to be a grandmother. I hate that they left it out. It was the one and only time Jillian gets called out for what she did. I'm glad that they showed Leigh going to her mother upset about modeling naked and Jillian not having a problem with it. But I wanted that scene.

The hair is still wrong and annoying. Also, as @Scarlett45 points out they could have just used the same actress for Heaven and Leigh. Annie too just use wigs for the different hair color. 

Also didn't Jillian get an iron-clad prenup or something that would give her huge amounts of money if Tony divorced her

Jillian was definitely crazy enough. And Tony really was an asshole enough. 

I'm not sure if Cleave's business was doing as bad as Jillian claimed. They lived really well, it just wasn't enough for Jillian. She wanted more and a higher status and found that in Tony.  Speaking at Jillian's claims forget her book I want to read one on her mother or her sisters. That story about how her sisters were so mean to her and her life was so awful I have a feeling she changed parts of that story especially given how Jana had her number. 

I am glad they showed Troy's and Leigh's friendship. I wondered how much of that they would show. They really were close. They did show Cleave and Leigh close in the beginning. Showing her close to her grandmother even if it was brief. Its weird that they killed her off. 

[BitterApple]

Did anyone else bust out laughing when Tony revealed the portrait doll to Leigh? First off, it looked nothing like her (which I shouldn't criticize too harshly considering the production assistants probably grabbed it from a local swap meet), and second the bottom looked like they stuffed tissues under the skirt to give it a JLo booty. So embarrassingly awful. 

I will say the actor who played Tony did a better job than Jason Priestley, but IMO, both men were too short. I always envisioned Tony as an imposing figure and they just couldn't fill the space.

I also laughed my ass off at Leigh's shabby-chic barn wedding and cabin bedroom complete with electricity and nice sheets. In the book, the impoverished conditions contributed to her death in childbirth. It's not quite as believable in the movie when they're basically showing Leigh living a middle class lifestyle. 

I'm curious to see how you all would rank the movies, best to worst? For me it would be:

Fallen Hearts

Web of Dreams

Dark Angel

Heaven

Gates of Paradise

Edited August 25, 2019 by BitterApple

[Snow Apple]

Luke being sweet reminded me how I use to wonder what would have happened if Leigh lived. Would Luke shape up to prove he was worthy of Leigh? or continue cheating and eventually both becoming bitter due to the harsh realities of poverty and Luke's weaknesses? Luke was a good husband and father to Stacy and Drake, but he was older then and had money.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Did anyone else bust out laughing when Tony revealed the portrait doll to Leigh? First off, it looked nothing like her (which I shouldn't criticize too harshly considering the production assistants probably grabbed it from a local swap meet), and second the bottom looked like they stuffed tissues under the skirt to give it a JLo booty. So embarrassingly awful. 

I will say the actor who played Tony did a better job than Jason Priestley, but IMO, both men were too short. I always envisioned Tony as an imposing figure and they just couldn't fill the space.

I also laughed my ass off at Leigh's shabby-chic barn wedding and cabin bedroom complete with electricity and nice sheets. In the book, the impoverished conditions contributed to her death in childbirth. It's not quite as believable in the movie when they're basically showing Leigh living a middle class lifestyle. 

I'm curious to see how you all would rank the movies, best to worst? For me it would be:

Fallen Hearts

Web of Dreams

Dark Angel

Heaven

Gates of Paradise

I think that I agree with your rankings. 

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Did anyone else bust out laughing when Tony revealed the portrait doll to Leigh? First off, it looked nothing like her (which I shouldn't criticize too harshly considering the production assistants probably grabbed it from a local swap meet), and second the bottom looked like they stuffed tissues under the skirt to give it a JLo booty. So embarrassingly awful. 

I will say the actor who played Tony did a better job than Jason Priestley, but IMO, both men were too short. I always envisioned Tony as an imposing figure and they just couldn't fill the space.

I also laughed my ass off at Leigh's shabby-chic barn wedding and cabin bedroom complete with electricity and nice sheets. In the book, the impoverished conditions contributed to her death in childbirth. It's not quite as believable in the movie when they're basically showing Leigh living a middle class lifestyle. 

I'm curious to see how you all would rank the movies, best to worst? For me it would be:

Fallen Hearts

Web of Dreams

Dark Angel

Heaven

Gates of Paradise

that's accurate in the book though. Leigh was horrified when she saw the paintings and they were completely sexulized in nature. (haven't seen the movie yet, so i they didn't show the painting/drawings, having it be the doll could work)