S04.E17: Best Laid Plans

[Shanna Marie]

I can see where Snow and David might want Hook to be there or be okay with him being there, and I could also see them being not crazy about it because would they want to air their dirty laundry in front of him. They'd know Emma would likely tell him, but it might still be awkward.

 

At any rate, it makes me angrier that they skipped the scene entirely because there would have been a lot going on with that dynamic. Him reacting to them and watching Emma, Emma reacting to them, them reacting to their reactions, even just seeing how they phrased things, how they led into it and how that led to Hook being invited to stay and by whom and how all that was negotiated. Did he want to be there or did he try to make himself scarce until Emma asked him to stay?

 

The most potentially interesting scene in the whole episode took place offscreen. They really are allergic to conversations, aren't they?

[Camera One]

They probably skipped it because if recounted verbally, it would sound even more stupid than it already was.

 

SNOW/CHARMING: We have something to tell you.  It all started when we thought you might be evil.

EMMA: Why would you think that?

SNOW/CHARMING: Maleficent said.

EMMA: And you believed her because... 

SNOW/CHARMING: Uhhhhhhhhhh... moving on.  So we stole Maleficent's egg and got someone to enact a spell to transfer any potential darkness in you to her egg, but we didn't know the egg would get sent through a portal afterwards.  
EMMA: So this guarantees I wouldn't have darkness in me?

SNOW/CHARMING: No, you could still be dark.  Or light.  It's 50/50 since people have free will.

EMMA: Isn't that the case for anybody?

SNOW/CHARMING: Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...

EMMA: And you hid this from me because.....................

SNOW/CHARMING: Because when you betray the people you love, when you make them see the worst parts of you, what you've done changes everything. There's no going back. You've shattered the bonds you worked so hard to forge.  And the stronger those bonds once were, the more difficult they are to put back together. If they can be repaired at all.

EMMA: Can you speak English please?

SNOW/CHARMING: Oh screw it.  We were possessed by the devil.  We have zero memory of that month, okay?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

They probably skipped it because if recounted verbally, it would sound even more stupid than it already was.

Emma: "So wait... you lied about going hiking?"

*sobbing ensues*

 

That's pretty much how I thought it went... at least from what little reaction we were shown. No one seemed to care about Lily or Maleficent. It was all about the two "heroes" doing something to tarnish their holy image. Well maybe the Apprentice did. He, like many secondary characters, seems to know what's up.

Edited April 2, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Dianthus]

It might be awkward for Snowing to have Hook there, but OTOH, they could be all: he's done stuff he regrets, stuff he wasn't ready to share with you, and you were ok with that, so....

[OnceUponAJen]

I thought maybe they skipped it since it would basically be a rehash of what they just showed us in the flashback.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I thought maybe they skipped it since it would basically be a rehash of what they just showed us in the flashback.

I don't know. I would of liked to see how Snow and Charming explained it. Not just what happened, but why they chose to lie (besides "to protect you") and why they felt they needed to enact the spell so desperately that they would break their moral codes to do it. I would have also liked to see Emma's reaction to each part of it. There was a lot more anger to be had than just from the deceit. There was also the manipulation and not believing in her ability to choose good.

Edited April 2, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I'm pretty sure there was more to it than the lying.  They had her address the lying and then had her say something about wanting to believe in them. Later, Emma was genuinely pissed when she asked Snow if she was worried about Emma going dark. It was the lying and their lack of belief in Emma being a good person that set her off.

[Rumsy4]

They probably skipped it because if recounted verbally, it would sound even more stupid than it already was.

 

SNOW/CHARMING: We have something to tell you.  It all started when we thought you might be evil.

...

SNOW/CHARMING: Oh screw it.  We were possessed by the devil.  We have zero memory of that month, okay?

 

LMAO. Pretty much...

[dr pepper]

I think Snow's unicorn vision was not literally of Emma, it was just meant to indicate "her child", and in fact is actually about her second child.

[dr pepper]

Also how does August even know so much?

 

 

 

He once took a class at Columbia called "Foklore: Gateway to Other Worlds". He did so well, he was invited to train to be an Author.

[KAOS Agent]

To the theme word count this week, the heroes took back their lead from the villains with 6 mentions to the villains' 4 with an overall lead 24-23 for 4B.

 

After last week's Happy Endings festival, it dropped down to merely 4 uses this week. "Happy ending" has also now been used more times in Season 4 than in the previous three seasons combined.

[dr pepper]

I had to get off of Twitter. Too many people singing the writer's praises for the 'Walt' reference.

 

As someone who really prefers older versions to the disneyfied ones, i say Walt was one of the worst `rogue' Authors ever! And that's counting the Grimms, who introduced the concept of the evil step-mother because they couldn't bear how many stories had children being murdered by their actual birth mothers,

[Curio]

To the theme word count this week, the heroes took back their lead from the villains with 6 mentions to the villains' 4 with an overall lead 24-23 for 4B.

 

After last week's Happy Endings festival, it dropped down to merely 4 uses this week. "Happy ending" has also now been used more times in Season 4 than in the previous three seasons combined.

 

Just wanted to give you props for your dedication to counting, KAOS Agent. I look forward to this post every week!

[Camera One]

To the theme word count this week, the heroes took back their lead from the villains with 6 mentions to the villains' 4 with an overall lead 24-23 for 4B.

 

Meanwhile, the number of actual heroes on the show dropped to one, Emma.  Good luck on her lasting the rest of the season with that title intact!

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm pretty sure there was more to it than the lying.

There is, undoubtedly, but the show did not explore it as much as it should have. That's my point.

Edited April 2, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I think we need to add "darkness" to the theme word counting. It would be lovely if they'd define what they mean by that.

[Rumsy4]

One of the corniest lines of this episode was when Snow told Charming, "Oh noes! We are no longer heroes..." We get it A&E. Snow and Charming are are bad as the villains, who incidentally, are better than the heroes in some respect, and definitely way more sympathetic. Congratulations! You have unlocked a whole new level of anvilicious writing. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

They really went heavy on the "darkness" this week. 10 mentions should anyone care. 20 overall in 4B. 

 

Yes, I'm avoiding doing my taxes. Anything that offers distraction at this point works on me.

[KingOfHearts]

This is nitpicky, but it bothered me that the Infinite Forest is now a physical place you can just walk into. I always thought you could only get there by magic and escape by the same means. That's how it's always been in the past. Regina banished Hansel, Gretel and Charming there.

[Camera One]

This is nitpicky, but it bothered me that the Infinite Forest is now a physical place you can just walk into. I always thought you could only get there by magic and escape by the same means. That's how it's always been in the past. Regina banished Hansel, Gretel and Charming there.

I totally forgot about that.  So ret-cons in both characterization and worldbuilding.

[jhlipton]

I thought it was a neat bit of paralleling with Snow's vision of the "I'm your mother." "I don't care." exchange. In the vision, the tearing out of the heart was literal. When it actually came to pass, it was figurative.

More later, but this was well-done and one the only decent moments in the show *the others being Captain Swan).

[Dani-Ellie]

This is nitpicky, but it bothered me that the Infinite Forest is now a physical place you can just walk into. I always thought you could only get there by magic and escape by the same means. That's how it's always been in the past. Regina banished Hansel, Gretel and Charming there.

 

We have seen Regina poof both herself and other people to physical places before, most recently Anna and Kristoff in "Shattered Sight." If I recall correctly, the only one who says that the only way out of the Infinite Forest is by magic is Rumple but he also wanted Charming to do hide the true love potion in Maleficent for him so, y'know, grains of salt. It could very well be that there's a path through the Infinite Forest that you're fine if you follow (which is what I believe the Peddler/Author says) but if you're just plunked down somewhere in the middle of it, finding that path is nigh on impossible. (Which is, incidentally, the basis for every single maze in every single fantasy video game I've ever played.)

[darkestboy]

Not a bad episode but not as great as the previous one.

The Peddler being the Author was fairly obvious to be honest so when he was released and legged it, it wasn't too shocking really.

I'm glad Regina's cover was blown because she was bad at it in the first place but I really want her, Maleficent and Cruella to outsmart Rumple as well.

We should've seen Emma being told what her parents did as well as the aftermath of it.

I hope the show resists the temptation of doing a triangle with August/Emma/Hook as well.

Anyone else get the vibe that Henry could be set up as a future Author too?

Lily being Maleficent's daughter made sense, 7/10

[jhlipton]

For some reason, Cruelle saying to just slit Regina's throat, took me out of the story for a second.  Violence is clearly not new to this show, but I was really waiting for Rumpel to look at her and be like "Christ, Cruelle!  What kind of show do you think this is?!  This is Once Upon A Time, not Game of Thrones!  Tone down the blood-lust, lady!"

 

I was hoping they were taking Regina to her vault so Rumple could rip her heart out and put it with the others.  But that would be too ironic for these dum-dums, and would hurt poor Woegina, so not happening.  But there was no reason for them not to kill her, in a "kid-friendly" way.

Personally, I'm hoping she turns out to be a successful, if stoic, psychiatrist who lives in Boston.  Bonus points if her ex-husband lives in Seattle, she frequents a popular bar, and we learn she has a lovely singing voice.

 

That would be so awesome.  (From baby to Bebe in one episode!)

[KingOfHearts]

We have seen Regina poof both herself and other people to physical places before, most recently Anna and Kristoff in "Shattered Sight." If I recall correctly, the only one who says that the only way out of the Infinite Forest is by magic is Rumple but he also wanted Charming to do hide the true love potion in Maleficent for him so, y'know, grains of salt. It could very well be that there's a path through the Infinite Forest that you're fine if you follow (which is what I believe the Peddler/Author says) but if you're just plunked down somewhere in the middle of it, finding that path is nigh on impossible. (Which is, incidentally, the basis for every single maze in every single fantasy video game I've ever played.)

I'm sure Rumple's statement was correct. Regina purposely sent who she wanted there because there was no escape. It's called the "infinite forest" for a reason. It just feels like a retcon to me in the way the heart-splitting felt. "Oh the Infinite Forest? Sure let's just take the path! It's even inhabited now!"

Edited April 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Zuleikha]

Sending Snowing through the Infinite Forest seems like a strange choice because there was no reason for it. The Infinite Forest has always been used in the past when there's a plot reason to have a place that's hard to escape from. But this time, Snowing didn't need to be going somewhere that was hard to escape from. They just needed to go to and from the Apprentice's cabin. Why place that in the Infinite Forest? It wasn't hard for Anna to reach in the past when she went to and from it as part of her quest with Rumple, so it's not like there was continuity to be kept. The peddler could have directed them to the cabin in any way.

[jhlipton]

Aaaaaaaand apparently he actually didn't mess with the "heroes"' free will. Jane Espenson tweeted that he only messed with the Apprentice's free will. Okay, sure...

 

I used to love Jane E.  She was one of my favorite Buffy writers, both for the show and the short story collections.  And she had a blog with great, concrete advise on breaking into writing for TV.  But seeing what she's done on this show?  Not so much.

 

I actually think that was the entire point. How sad and lonely must Emma's childhood have been if she didn't make her first friend until 14/15 and that one afternoon and evening in the company of a girl who was essentially a stranger is the best friendship she ever had?

Has TSTW already forgotten that Emma made some friends when she was at "Ingrid"s foster care? Yes, there was a betrayal by Ingrid at the end, but Emma made NO friends, either at the home or in the community?  The spell would have made her forget her time there but she remembers it now, and those friendships would have been part of who she is, even if she doesn't know why.

 

GAH!

Edited April 3, 2015 by jhlipton

[Shanna Marie]

One of the corniest lines of this episode was when Snow told Charming, "Oh noes! We are no longer heroes..."

When did all this "heroes" and "villains" stuff on this show start? They talk about it like it's sports teams. I recall Henry talking about people having to do things because they were heroes or how they had to win because they were heroes in the first season, but he was a kid. It kind of bugs me for any adult to non-ironically and non-sarcastically refer to him/herself as a hero. It's one of those "if you have to say it about yourself, you probably aren't" things. It's something that has to be said about you, and it really works best for me if it refers to a specific action. You've done something heroic if you drag someone out of a burning building, but it's not like you are then wearing the Team Hero jersey for life. It's an action, not a state of being or an alignment. There's something weird about them talking about how they're heroes, and therefore they have to do this thing or that thing.

[Camera One]

It has always been there, worsened in 2B (Henry decrying that they are supposed to be heroes) but the hammer has fallen harder this season since it's their main theme.  This episode was especially blatant, with the writer having Snow or Charming exclaiming aloud "This is wrong!  We shouldn't be lying!  Heroes don't do this!" before, after and while they are committing the same said lying and betraying, both in the flashback and in the present-day.  To me, that is spelling out what the viewers should conclude from what was revealed.  Unlike the last two Hook flashbacks, or "Enter the Dragon" where the writers had the character (Hook ore Regina) act poorly in the flashback but trying to rectify the mistake or working for good in the present-day, both the "Best Laid Plans" flashbacks and current-day scenes directly tarnish the integrity of Snow and Charming, painting them as hypocrites instead of showing any change or progression in their mindset.  To me, that's horrendous treatment of those characters, and is a prime example of plot driving character.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Camera One

[Dani-Ellie]

Has TSTW already forgotten that Emma made some friends when she was at "Ingrid"s foster care? Yes, there was a betrayal by Ingrid at the end, but Emma made NO friends, either at the home or in the community?

 

Did she really make any friends when she stayed with Ingrid? Six months is not a long time. If Ingrid was foster care, kids would come and go. Emma by that point had been moved around so much that she was waiting for the other shoe to drop. When she saw the papers in Ingrid's bag, she immediately assumed she was being moved again. That tells me she didn't once consider that her placement with Ingrid would be permanent. So again we're back to Emma not reaching out to make friends because why bother if they weren't going to be a lasting fixture in her life?

 

She also tells Killian that after Lily, she didn't go out of her way to make friends. She was placed with Ingrid immediately after the incident with Lily, so she was still smarting from Lily's betrayal.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[KingOfHearts]

Aaaaaaaand apparently he actually didn't mess with the "heroes"' free will. Jane Espenson tweeted that he only messed with the Apprentice's free will. Okay, sure...

How exactly were we supposed to know that? This Author plot hasn't been clear about how fate gets twisted at all. With what they gave us, you could assume he fabricated everything the characters ever did up to that point. Not sure why the Apprentice could break out of the programming yet still got manipulated.

[jhlipton]

She also tells Killian that after Lily, she didn't go out of her way to make friends. She was placed with Ingrid immediately after the incident with Lily, so she was still smarting from Lily's betrayal.

 

I'm terrible with timelines, so that makes sense.

[Camera One]

LOL at Jane Espenson's tweet about why Belle was even in Gold's shop knowing he's back in town.

 

 

Every viewer should feel free to interpret the piece as they wish. The show needs to stand w/out my interpretation.

Yet she clarifies that what Snow and Charming did was very wrong because it was a baby. LOL.

Another interesting script point:

 

Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson  Mar 29

This scene of Snow/Charming in the nursery was written by me and @KalindaVazquez together after the rest of the script was complete.

Corbin Bolies ‏@CorbinBolies  Mar 29

@JaneEspenson @KalindaVazquez Great scene! I liked how, in the present day, the roles were reversed between the two.

Jane Espenson

thanks -- @KalindaVazquez made the case for that switch.

And about that Belle/Rumple scene...

 

@DaNu_Mellark

@JaneEspenson the scene with bobby and emilie was excellent!!

Jane Espenson

‏@JaneEspenson

thanks! I love writing that kind of scene-- pure emotion.

I'm not sure "pure emotion" is the feeling I got from that one.

I love the spin with this one:

 

Sini ‏@IceTear1 Apr 1

@JaneEspenson @maryhern338 I just feel it messed many things we loved before. Like made the mobile sad symbol instead of love it has been.

Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson Apr 1

@IceTear1 I felt it made it more meaningful. A symbol of redemption and hope. Hope means more when you're unhappy than happy.

Sini ‏@IceTear1 Apr 1

@JaneEspenson But it was symbol of them wanting and loving Emma. Now it seem more as symbol of Emma ripping her mom's heart.

Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson Apr 1

@IceTear1 it was until they transformed it into symbol of hope.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

Sini ‏@IceTear1 Apr 1

@JaneEspenson @maryhern338 I just feel it messed many things we loved before. Like made the mobile sad symbol instead of love it has been.

 

Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson Apr 1

@IceTear1 I felt it made it more meaningful. A symbol of redemption and hope. Hope means more when you're unhappy than happy.

 

Sini ‏@IceTear1 Apr 1

@JaneEspenson But it was symbol of them wanting and loving Emma. Now it seem more as symbol of Emma ripping her mom's heart.

 

Jane Espenson ‏@JaneEspenson Apr 1

@IceTear1 it was until I said it wasn't!  I'm the Author, dammit!!!

 

Fixed.

[RadioGirl27]

 

@DaNu_Mellark

@JaneEspenson the scene with bobby and emilie was excellent!!

 

Jane Espenson

‏@JaneEspenson

thanks! I love writing that kind of scene-- pure emotion.

Emotion?! More rape and abuse. But it's this show, so of course a man touching his sleeping ex-wife is considered emotion.

[Arnella]

 

As someone who really prefers older versions to the disneyfied ones, i say Walt was one of the worst `rogue' Authors ever!

Word!  I remember when they announced that Disney was going to make The Little Mermaid.  I asked how can that be a kid's movie!?

[Mari]

Emotion?! More rape and abuse. But it's this show, so of course a man touching his sleeping ex-wife is considered emotion.

 

Okay, I know that technically regret and obsession are emotions.  So is the revulsion much of the audience feels.

 

But that's not usually the way people would use "emotion" in that context.  So, are we supposed to think that the Rumple/Belle-sleeping-again scene was touching and romantic? 

[YaddaYadda]

So, are we supposed to think that the Rumple/Belle-sleeping-again scene was touching and romantic?

 

Yes, yes we are!  We're not supposed to think that Rumple is a creeper.  This bugs on so many levels.  I get that Rumple still loves her, but she told him when he was disguised as Hook that the only thing that made her feel safe was having the dagger, it was her protection against him.  It's not like he doesn't know that the woman is scared for her life.  And yes, he may not hurt her, but he goes to see her while she's under the sleeping curse?

 

Yeah, it's like the ex breaking into the apartment or house and creeping into the bedroom to watch his ex-girlfriend/wife sleep.  If she wakes up, what's her reaction?  Threatens to call the cops maybe if he doesn't get out?

 

Rumbelle, not cute.  I get what they were trying to accomplish with that scene, but I can't get over the creep factor.  Rumple has crossed several lines and then some.

[Mari]

Yes, yes we are!  We're not supposed to think that Rumple is a creeper.  This bugs on so many levels.  ...

 

Rumbelle, not cute.  I get what they were trying to accomplish with that scene, but I can't get over the creep factor.  Rumple has crossed several lines and then some.

 

They really have no clue what story they're actually telling, do they?

 

So, does this mean we can expect Belle once more to save/stop Rumple with "The power of our love" by the end of the season? Because people who think that Rumple's scenes are touching and romantic, wouldn't see how that's problematic.

 

ETA:

With Rumbelle, it just seems like trying to force romance where there is none.

 

 

When was the last episode that de Ravin and Carlyle actually shared a scene for longer than a few seconds where their characters were both awake and had a conversation?  Because the Rumple/Belle relationship this season hasn't just been creepy and controlling, it's been weird. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by Mari

[OnceUponAJen]

With Rumbelle, it just seems like trying to force romance where there is none. The fact that she gave Rumpel/Hook the dagger shows that she is worried about him getting it and probably fears for her safety. It's total creep factor that he keeps taking away her will/consent by knocking her out. If this was a non magical act, he wouldn't be able to accomplish that without hitting her over the head or drugging her. Ugh.

[YaddaYadda]

They really have no clue what story they're actually telling, do they?

 

So, does this mean we can expect Belle once more to save/stop Rumple with "The power of our love" by the end of the season? Because people who think that Rumple's scenes are touching and romantic, wouldn't see how that's problematic.

 

ETA:

 

When was the last episode that de Ravin and Carlyle actually shared a scene for longer than a few seconds where their characters were both awake and had a conversation?  Because the Rumple/Belle relationship this season hasn't just been creepy and controlling, it's been weird. 

When she banished him from Storybrooke.  

 

Whatever, man!  If Belle finds out, I hope she doesn't give him free passes or goes back to him or whatever.  She needs to stay the hell away from him.  I don't care if what he was trying to tell her when he was all over was that he was dying or that he had a bad heart.  If he dies, he should just die alone.

[Mari]

When she banished him from Storybrooke.  

Thanks.

 

How about before that?  Because that's one of the only actual conversations (of more than a few seconds) I can remember the pair having all season.   Anyone remember anything else of substance out there?

[YaddaYadda]

Thanks.

 

How about before that?  Because that's one of the only actual conversations (of more than a few seconds) I can remember the pair having all season.   Anyone remember anything else of substance out there?

 

No, there are no conversations between them.  I mean the last time she tried to say something to him was in 406 when she said she knew Anna and then used the fake dagger to get him to help her.  When she had her moment with the mirror but otherwise, no.  It's also not a "relationship" we see on screen which might not be a bad thing.

 

I find that Belle being with Rumple isolated her from the rest of the town.  People like/love Belle, but they hate/fear/don't want anything to do with Rumple.  And with good reason I might add.

 

There's something wrong in your relationship when you're reduced to using a dagger to make sure your s/o assists you.  Belle is a mouse.

[Mari]

I find that Belle being with Rumple isolated her from the rest of the town.  People like/love Belle, but they hate/fear/don't want anything to do with Rumple.  And with good reason I might add.

Very true.  Plus, being with Rumple must have made it harder for people to trust her--yes, she seemed to have good intentions, but she's comfortable being with someone who's done all the things he has, and usually blames his victim?

 

I wouldn't've trusted her when they were together.  I'd've avoided her like the plague.  Trusting her now isn't even something I'd consider.  She did the right thing and rejected Rumple, and she's said all the right things since he's back in town, but she hasn't actually seen him again.  Considering her history of chewing him out, and then caving to him very shortly afterwards?  It'd be a while before she's trustworthy.

 

But, then, maybe I'm paranoid.

[kingshearte]

I really don't understand Snow and Charming's panic over the prophesy that Emma had the potential for great good or great evil. Um, you mean like every other human on earth? Their reaction is just way overblown, especially considering the source.

In theory, if she's supposed to be the most powerful of all or whatever, then, although her potential to go either way is the same as everyone else's, that choice carries a lot of weight. That part makes sense to me, but I totally agree that their freakout about it was just plain stupid. And the whole storyline the accompanied it was awful. I fully agree with all those who have pointed out that Snow being willing to sacrifice an innocent baby goes completely against everything we've ever seen about her. It was beyond out of character, and if we had to go there at all, the revelation that it effectively didn't even make any difference should not have inspired mere guilt and regret; the realization that she did something that unspeakably awful for no reason should have pretty much destroyed her.

 

Which kind of all circles back to this:

 

I don't know why this show is so hellbent on destroying Snow White, and Charming by association. You know, if you want to prop up the villains, you don't have to do it at the expense of all the "heroes" in the story, you just have to be creative and write reasonably sympathetic backstories for said villains.

Moral ambiguity is great in a show, especially one based around the kind of stories where there's usually a clear dichotomy between good and evil. But this is just such utterly ham-fisted attempts at that. Done right, you should find yourself still rooting for "the good guys" despite some bad choices, and unable to completely hate "the bad guys" because of extenuating circumstances. Done skillfully, you can even make the audience flip back and forth over who they feel is good or bad at any given time. This is just making everyone awful. Which, frankly, actually aligns pretty nicely with my own cynical view of humanity, but it's not what I watch fluffy TV for.

 

Also, I don't want to get into a big nuanced discussion of gender identity or anything (if only because I'm quite sure the writers had no such subtleties in mind), but when one knows that one is carrying a girl, doesn't one usually stop referring to one's baby as "it"? Or was it supposed to be some tiny hint that somehow Neal and his potential for good or evil is going to come into this, and by not using a gendered pronoun, the writers figured they could leave that one open?

[Zuleikha]

But that's not usually the way people would use "emotion" in that context.  So, are we supposed to think that the Rumple/Belle-sleeping-again scene was touching and romantic?

 

I think people do use "emotion" to refer to any strong emotion. I don't think Jane E's use of "pure emotion" is an indicator that she thinks the scene was touching and romantic (and if the writers are hoping for that, someone should give Emilie a memo that she's not supposed to play Belle as a traumatized domestic abuse survivor because I think Emilie's doing an amazing job playing Belle as exactly that but it sure doesn't make me root for Rumpbelle to get back together!)

[Camera One]

I don't think Jane E's use of "pure emotion" is an indicator that she thinks the scene was touching and romantic

 

Even if it wasn't meant to be that, I had zero emotional response to Rumple's "heartfelt" speech since it was completely disingenuous and altogether pointless, given it has zero impact on how he is planning to act.  One sad puppy dog speech doesn't automatically add depth to a character, contrary to what these writers may think.

 

If they seriously thought that the ret-con scene in the nursery turned the mobile into a symbol of hope, they're even more delusional about their writing than previously thought.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Camera One

[Serena]

 

Also, I don't want to get into a big nuanced discussion of gender identity or anything (if only because I'm quite sure the writers had no such subtleties in mind), but when one knows that one is carrying a girl, doesn't one usually stop referring to one's baby as "it"? Or was it supposed to be some tiny hint that somehow Neal and his potential for good or evil is going to come into this, and by not using a gendered pronoun, the writers figured they could leave that one open?

It's because Charming is only supposed to find out Emma's gender when they go to visit Rumple in his cell, where Snow is much more further along - so they can't have Snow referring to Emma as she. Charming needs to be in the dark.

[KAOS Agent]

It seems a little off that Snow became catatonic and then suicidal after killing Cora, but after kidnapping a baby, performing a spell that would make it evil and then banishing it to another realm, she was just feeling guilty and then decided to be a cheerleader for Hope. I never really understood Snow's extreme reaction in Season 2 and this episode just made it even less understandable. 

[Camera One]

And then Snow in the pilot:

 

Charming: I've sent my men into the forest. The animals are abuzz with the Queen's plan. This is going to happen unless we do something.

Snow: There's no point. The future is written.
Charming: No. I refuse to believe that. Good can't just lose!
Snow: Maybe it can.

 

Today, we need to do everything we can to thwart an uncertain future, no matter the cost.  Tomorrow, the future is written and there's no point.  Next season, we'll probably find out Snow has a multiple personality disorder.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Camera One