Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[OtterMommy]

I think the writers just wanted to keep CC and did not think through how messed up a rape baby story really is.  However, something tells me that Adalind could end up dead and we find out that Kelly is really Nicks and that wooden chick's kid.

 

Replying in the spoiler thread....

[jhlipton]

I don't understand showrunners who see they're torpedoing a show and just continue on the same path. Or just keep adding more and more ridiculous stuff, rather than removing ridiculous stuff and going back to the basics, which is ALWAYS a good idea.

 

To a certain extent, they're stuck with episodes that are filmed and ready.  Even after the FOX reboot of Sleepy Hollow, the changes didn't show until the last two episodes of Season 2.

 

From the Eve of Destruction thread:

As for her being pregnant under contract.  It happens.  She was newly (ish) married and she had probably even told TPTB at Grimm that pregnancy was on the horizon (which makes it even weirder that her actual pregnancy, if they were going to write it into the script, was handled so horribly).  Actresses on shows get pregnant all the time and shows handle it.  But they only very, very rarely actually result in TV babies.

Melissa Fumero (Detective Amy Santiago on Brooklyn 9-9) is pregnant and the show just has her wear long jackets. Happens all the time.

 

My pet peeve:  on tv chemistry between the actors mean they must get together as a couple.  In the right hands (in other words, not this writer's room), mad chemistry between two antagonists can be fucking awesome.

 

Watch Elementary.  Sherlock and Watson have insane chemistry with each other, but only as platonic buds.  It's awesome.

[GaT]

Adalind's second pregnancy reminds me of Charmed. They did a Piper pregnancy plot that nobody particularly liked, then Holly Marie Combs got pregnant IRL, so they did a 2nd pregnancy plot which was even worse. 

[spaulding]

But they had to go dark.   Somehow all shows have "go dark."   WHY THE FUCK THAT HAS TO HAPPEN, I have no clue.   There is absolutely nothing wrong in your hero staying a hero.   He can have flaws, like he never remembers to turn on the oven for dinner no matter how many times he is told.   But he should not murder someone and then have his boss cover it up.   That's not a flaw, that it turning from a hero into a bad guy.   That is not even an anti-hero, that's a bad guy.

 

I agree.  No need to complicate this show.  It's best when it's a light and fun procedural.  The Three Bad Wolves was a great, fun episode.  To this day, I still miss Hap and his Shake Weight. 

 

This show has done dark.  Organ Grinder was a dark, excellent episode.  But Grimm is so depressing and convoluted as a dark show.  It's dark all the time.  (The XFiles had light, fluffy episodes, which didn't detract from the show's darker episodes.)

 

Nick is best as a hero.  He struggled between being a cop and being a Grimm.  Now, Nick does whatever he wants.  Leave a frozen body in a cab.  Take Adalind's baby because it's for the best.  Didn't bring in Emily in Maiden Quest. 

 

There is not one word, one period, one space in that idea that isn't horribly wrong.  The creators of this show have shown us that they don't really care that rape is a very, very serious thing because, in the end, it all comes down to how hot the woman is.

 

Disgusting.

 

The writers don't even think about.  They write twisted, convoluted drama.  They really have blinders regarding power struggle/subjugation.

 

I'll add Nick's forced kiss on Adalind, Adalind in the castle, and the beating/submission of Juliette.  (Did it happen to Teresa too?)

 

I have no idea how the writers could have plotted a storyline about beating and caging a woman and not blinked.  It doesn't look good for Meisner if he was doing it. 

 

^ Isn't that what this mess was supposed to be? The show needs new writers, at least, but it won't get them, and new show runners is even more unlikely. I'd bet on either cancellation or renewed for a final season. I've seen a spin-off mentioned, and then there's the possibility of a total overhaul of Grimm itself - since there is no audience to pull for a spin-off, and the show can just shuffle story lines a bit to give more screen time to whatever characters would have fit the spin-off idea - say, Trubel, Meisner, or Monroe and Rosalee - just like it had the interminable, insufferable Adalind baby dramas before, with zero connection to whatever main plots were at the time. But... they doubled on Adalind and Juliet.

 

This show deserves to be canceled because it's a mess.  Sounds like the network is going to leave this show to struggle on its own until it's canceled.  Or to implode on itself.

 

New showrunners and writers would help.  Unfortunately, Akela Cooper isn't coming back to this mess of a show. 

 

Instead, this show does double down on what doesn't work--world-building, Nick and Adalind, and anything with Juliette. 

 

How I Met Your Mother doubled down on what didn't work.  The backlash was amazing.  It should be taught in TV Writing 101.

 

I think they've really painted Adalind into a corner

 

Coffee is a good actress, but it's unfortunate that this show keeps trying new things with her.  She was scheming in S1.  Then, that craziness in the castle.  She became grey.  Now, she's stuck in some ick drama with Nick.  I have no idea what else can be done with her character.  There's nothing left to try. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she left this show before it's canceled. 

 

Juliette will not go back in the girlfriend goody-goody box, so just forget it. Bitsie has run her mouth off in enough interviews and used the term "bad-ass" so much, the word has lost its meaning. She prefers to wear silly fake wigs and be a soulless robot killing machine, because that's way more interesting.

 

Tulloch's character is painted into a corner too.  She repeatedly says that Juliette is some badass.  Too bad that she can't deliver.  I can't imagine watching Legends of Tomorrow for The White Canary.  Then, to watch Grimm for Tulloch's version of badass.  S1E3 was amazing just for Sara's fight scenes. 

 

XFiles and LOT just started, and it's hard to watch Grimm when other excellent shows are out there.  And the bad writing and bad acting aren't helping.

[Darklazr]

I agree.  No need to complicate this show.  It's best when it's a light and fun procedural.  The Three Bad Wolves was a great, fun episode.  To this day, I still miss Hap and his Shake Weight. 

 

This show has done dark.  Organ Grinder was a dark, excellent episode.  But Grimm is so depressing and convoluted as a dark show.  It's dark all the time.  (The XFiles had light, fluffy episodes, which didn't detract from the show's darker episodes.)

 

Nick is best as a hero.  He struggled between being a cop and being a Grimm.  Now, Nick does whatever he wants.  Leave a frozen body in a cab.  Take Adalind's baby because it's for the best.  Didn't bring in Emily in Maiden Quest. 

 

 

The writers don't even think about.  They write twisted, convoluted drama.  They really have blinders regarding power struggle/subjugation.

 

I'll add Nick's forced kiss on Adalind, Adalind in the castle, and the beating/submission of Juliette.  (Did it happen to Teresa too?)

 

I have no idea how the writers could have plotted a storyline about beating and caging a woman and not blinked.  It doesn't look good for Meisner if he was doing it. 

 

 

This show deserves to be canceled because it's a mess.  Sounds like the network is going to leave this show to struggle on its own until it's canceled.  Or to implode on itself.

 

New showrunners and writers would help.  Unfortunately, Akela Cooper isn't coming back to this mess of a show. 

 

Instead, this show does double down on what doesn't work--world-building, Nick and Adalind, and anything with Juliette. 

 

How I Met Your Mother doubled down on what didn't work.  The backlash was amazing.  It should be taught in TV Writing 101.

 

 

Coffee is a good actress, but it's unfortunate that this show keeps trying new things with her.  She was scheming in S1.  Then, that craziness in the castle.  She became grey.  Now, she's stuck in some ick drama with Nick.  I have no idea what else can be done with her character.  There's nothing left to try. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she left this show before it's canceled. 

 

 

Tulloch's character is painted into a corner too.  She repeatedly says that Juliette is some badass.  Too bad that she can't deliver.  I can't imagine watching Legends of Tomorrow for The White Canary.  Then, to watch Grimm for Tulloch's version of badass.  S1E3 was amazing just for Sara's fight scenes. 

 

XFiles and LOT just started, and it's hard to watch Grimm when other excellent shows are out there.  And the bad writing and bad acting aren't helping.

 

I have always considered a badass as someone that does NOT need to announce it to the world.

[OtterMommy]

I have always considered a badass as someone that does NOT need to announce it to the world.

 

Also, "Badasses" come in all varieties.  Personally, I'm much more interested in the ones that use their intelligence and personality than the ones who use their fists.

[merylinkid]

Actually it kinda did.   Juliette was okay for the role of "girlfriend who supported her boyfriend that turns out to be a Grimm."   The problem is that the writers decided that this poorly thought out character needed her own story, in a show about a Grimm.   This show should never have become an ensemble cast necessitating everyone having their own story.   An ep here and there fine.   But 1) the show is called Grimm, not Grimm and Co.; 2) these writers do not flesh out ill definied characters well.   Becuase there was no back story all they could do is transform the quietly competent girlfriend into some "bad ass" or the Captain that was supposed to be a bad guy into some guy who talks on the phone a lot.   They just don't know how to develop characters.   

[OtterMommy]

Also, "Badasses" come in all varieties.  Personally, I'm much more interested in the ones that use their intelligence and personality than the ones who use their fists.

 

What? Juliette's Googling skills didn't impress you?

 

 

This show just can't do intelligent women (well, I don't think it can do intelligent ANYONE at this point, but let's stick to the female characters).

 

Both Juliette and Adalind should have been very intelligent women.  Juliette was a vet--meaning she earned a bachelor's degree in some field of science, did well enough to get into vet school (which is actually very hard.  I've heard that it is harder to get into vet school than into med school), and did well enough to graduate and become a vet.  Yet, she came off as nothing more that the silly girlfriend.  How many times did she say the one thing that lacked any common sense?  When she finds out her friend is a wesen AND Nick tells he not to say anything, what is the first thing she does?  She runs to her friend and not only tells her that she knows she's a fuchsbau but also that Nick is a Grimm.  When told she can cure Nick's non-Grimmness, but there would be side-effects, what does she do?  Hint: it isn't ASK WHAT THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE!

 

Adalind was a lawyer and, from what was shown, a very successful one.  But, they did nothing with her but make her pawn because she's so in love with Sean.  Then she sleeps around and intentionally gets pregnant.  Then she sets up a "business deal" with someone she KNOWS is very powerful and won't mess around.  And then what does she do?  Run off from the legally binding contract because how on earth would a lawyer know that a contract is legally binding?  And now...well, there just are no words for what they've made Adalind into now.

 

They did sort of succeed with Rosalee.  I say "sort of" because I think much of the appeal of Rosalee comes from the performance, not the construction.  But still...she's great in the Spice Shop (although we've never been told how she came into her knowledge, other than watching her parents.  I don't think they'v ever mentioned her going to college or any kind of training...or even what her profession was before she returned to Portland), but she's done some rather head-scratching things outside of it (Nick, you need to BE THERE for Adalind!).

 

Now, there could be a whole other post about how non-smart the men are (Nick....), but I think it is really striking that they've done such a horrible job with the women.

[Lii]

Honestly, it's almost like the men don't exist any more, at least some of them. I'm sure Hank and Wu are still on this show. They probably show up at the big fighting stuff with the 247584576 other characters this show now has. But seriously, I feel like the episodes are like 80% manpain and "badassery" and since Hank and Wu don't fit with that, they chill on the phone with Rosalee.

[orza]

Hank was very much present in the latest episode. He was investigating with Nick the whole time. Wu was also there but not as much as Hank.

[Crim]

Unfortunately, Akela Cooper isn't coming back to this mess of a show.

And I'm really glad for that because she is on The 100. She would be wasted on Grimm; one voice in that writers room would not amount to much.

 

I have always considered a badass as someone that does NOT need to announce it to the world.

Arrogant Badass can also be done well, but it needs to be supported by purposeful writing... and not acted by BT. Grimm lucked out that the actors could deliver whatever was asked of them - Claire Coffee in particular heroically soldiered on through increasingly cringe-worthy story lines. Well, luck runs out (when Tullock runs in.)

Edited February 8, 2016 by Crim

[Commando Cody]

I think the writers sometimes go overboard on TV shows to prove the women are badass. They over did it on Person of Interest when they brought Shaw in. I think they eventually toned her down. She wasn't  as annoying as when she started out. To some extent they try to do that with Root. Unfortunately, the actress is polarizing and I don't think it would matter what they do with her. 

 

I think to bring back a character who made people happy when she died had more to do with politics than what was really good for the show. Despite her acting abilities, she is probably well liked by the other cast members plus she lives with the lead actor - who doesn't really seem much like the lead anymore, but his name is still first in the credits.

 

I do love Rosalee on this show though. Seeing her punch out that one guy in the car was great TV. I think she's a good actress. I think she, Monroe, Hank and Wu make this show tolerable. Whenever anyone brings up the cookies I think of Wu eating. 

 

With the new bunker headquarters, it is like they are trying to re-make this show with new (well not really new) characters. Lesser seen and supporting characters from the old show. Whoever plays Theresa isn't that impressive as an actor either. Her thing seems to be eating an enormous amount of food and showing Nick her arsenal.

[OtterMommy]

I think to bring back a character who made people happy when she died had more to do with politics than what was really good for the show. Despite her acting abilities, she is probably well liked by the other cast members plus she lives with the lead actor - who doesn't really seem much like the lead anymore, but his name is still first in the credits.

 

 

I remember reading FB posts after season 4 ended and reaction seemed to be evenly split into 3 groups: Those who were happy Juliette was dead, those who were upset that Juliette "turned" and hoped that she'd come back as the "old Juliette", and those who thought that the show had missed an opportunity (hexenJuliette *could* have been great, but the show handled it badly) and wished that things had gone differently.  So, with that, I can see why they might consider bringing Juliette back in some form.

 

Now, I think that Juliette should have been actually killed because of the character assassination that went on at the end of that season (I never minded Juliette--in fact,I had liked her and was able to recognize, but overlook, some of the performance issues.  That being said, I don't think story should suffer for character).  But I'm really miffed at how they've handled it.  I think they really had 2 choices if they were bound and determined to bring her back:

1 - Bring her back as Juliette--hexen or not.

2 - Bring her back as someone completely different--as in Juliette actually died and was re-animated with someone else spirit.  Granted, that's a lot to ask a show that can't seem to do anything the right way anymore, but there you go.

 

Instead, we have this weird Juliette/Eve thing which makes me think the show was just trying to hedge bets.  They don't know where they are going with her so they're going to stay "ambiguous" until the viewers have spoken.  Unfortunately, as I've posted before, the viewers are saying 2 different things.  The social media crowds lean anti-Juliette, but the ratings appear to be leaning pro-Juliette.  Which means the best we can expect from the show is for it to muddle through without making any sense.

[jhlipton]

 the show is called Grimm, not Grimm and Co.;

 

 

I think they may be tryuing to be like Buffy, which worked best as Buffy and Co.  This show doesn't have the same level of actors and writers though.

[anamika]

Juliette is back?! Seven hells! I am glad I gave up on this idiotic show. At this point, i will be glad if they cancel it. Free up the time slot for something new.

 

If folks are interested in scifi, I would suggest The Expanse. Adapted by a season one Grimm writer Naren Shankar. Very good. It's telling that after all the good writers (Shankar, Cooper) left, the show became a steaming pile of crap.

 

I like season one of Grimm. It was a fun, quirky show with beautiful Portland in the background. Season 2 had some good wesen of the week cases.  With the exception of the Juliette nonsense, season 2 had it's moments. And that's about it. Season 3 and 4 are rather unforgettable and 5 is unwatchable. The characters have become stale and boring and there is no story. And Juliette is back. Ewwww!

 

I doubt NBC is going to renew this crapfest with a 0.9 demo.

[Darklazr]

I think they may be tryuing to be like Buffy, which worked best as Buffy and Co.  This show doesn't have the same level of actors and writers though.

 

I really don't mind one or two episodes that focuses on the other characters, but NOT when Juliette/BT is eating up the damned show and she's as wooden to boot and has taken on a lead role.

 

Renard's Jack the Ripper was fine because SR can act, so I don't mind his several episodes during S4.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Darklazr

[OtterMommy]

Renard's Jack the Ripper was fine because SR can act, so I don't mind his several episodes during S4.

 

I wouldn't say that the Jack the Ripper story line was fine...I thought it was horrible,  However, that was because of the writing and directing.  I'd be fine with SR getting a "good" story line to himself.

[OtterMommy]

I wonder what would happen to the Special Snowflake if the real life people broke up.  Not that I wish heartache on anyone, but an amicable, mutual break-up might serve the show.  On second thought, TPTB would probably stick with BT & marginalize Nick even more.

 

I think it's an easy explanation to say that Juliette is still around because of BT's relationship with DG.  But, to be fair, I don't think that has anything to do with it.  I've never heard of diva behavior from either actor--and it would be extreme diva behavior to demand that one actor stay or the other leaves--so the idea of one (or both) of them saying that BT had to stay on the show or DG walks just doesn't fit.  And, even if that was the case, Grimm just isn't a big enough show for the network to bow down to that.  I think it would have to be a show that pulls in viewers like, say, The Big Bang Theory--consistently one of the top, if not THE top, rated show--for a network to even consider a demand like that.  In the end, everyone has contracts....

 

No, I think it's all Kouf/Greenwalt/Carpenter.  Think about it.  We have Juliette...we have Adalind, who has never actually had any real purpose on the show, we have Trubel who some people also think doesn't serve a purpose.  Heck, we have have Hank and Wu now basically playing the same role in the show (I don't mean character...I mean piece in the machinery of the show).  After all the violence on this show, you'd think that SOMEONE would have died in the past 4 years but, really, the only death was a character who was rarely seen (I'm not counting deaths that turned out to be temporary).  My guess is that, if MEM didn't have to (or chose to) cut ties with the show, Kelly would still be in hiding with Diana.

 

No, KGC just don't have the guts to cut ANY character if they can help.  I'm not saying that they haven't led the actors make some decisions about their characters (I don't know whether they have or have not), but I think the only way an actor is going to leave this show is if THEY decide they want to leave.  

Edited February 11, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

I think it's an easy explanation to say that Juliette is still around because of BT's relationship with DG.  But, to be fair, I don't think that has anything to do with it.  I've never heard of diva behavior from either actor--and it would be extreme diva behavior to demand that one actor stay or the other leaves--so the idea of one (or both) of them saying that BT had to stay on the show or DG walks just doesn't fit.  And, even if that was the case, Grimm just isn't a big enough show for the network to bow down to that.  I think it would have to be a show that pulls in viewers like, say, The Big Bang Theory--consistently one of the top, if not THE top, rated show--for a network to even consider a demand like that.  In the end, everyone has contracts....

 

No, I think it's all Kouf/Greenwalt/Carpenter.  Think about it.  We have Juliette...we have Adalind, who has never actually had any real purpose on the show, we have Trubel who some people also think doesn't serve a purpose.  Heck, we have have Hank and Wu now basically playing the same role in the show (I don't mean character...I mean piece in the machinery of the show).  After all the violence on this show, you'd think that SOMEONE would have died in the past 4 years but, really, the only death was a character who was rarely seen (I'm not counting deaths that turned out to be temporary).  My guess is that, if MEM didn't have to (or chose to) cut ties with the show, Kelly would still be in hiding with Diana.

 

No, KGC just don't have the guts to cut ANY character if they can help.  I'm not saying that they haven't led the actors make some decisions about their characters (I don't know whether they have or have not), but I think the only way an actor is going to leave this show is if THEY decide they want to leave.  

 

I agree and think that we're basically stuck with Adalind, Juliette and Trubel unless one of the actors wants to leave the show.

 

Juliette should have died and stayed dead.  Adalind's pregnancy should have never taken place.  Kelly and Diana should still be in hiding from the Royal family.

[DeeDee79]

I'll admit I never watch The X-Files and only a few episodes of Supernatural, but I think there are 2 differences: The X-Files, when it was first on, was on a "second tier" network (Fox was still young a fledgling then) and Supernatural still is.  Also, both those shows have co-leads.  Of course, it could be argued that Grimm could have had that with Nick and Monroe, but they didn't go that direction..

 

The X Files may have co leads but the heart of the show and the main story lines (at least in the show's infancy) revolved around Fox Mulder. While he may have had an occasional love interest they never created a character or plot that detracted from the point of the show. Even after the movies emerged and it was obvious that Scully was going to be the love interest it still didn't detract from the heart of the show. I mentioned Supernatural because the genre is similar. Again there are co-leads but they each have their own character arcs which may or may not include a love interest but ultimately doesn't assassinate the characters as a whole. Nick Burkhardt just isn't as awesome as he used to be.

[OtterMommy]

Nick Burkhardt just isn't as awesome as he used to be.

 

If you had to come up with the ONE thing that is wrong with this show--or, should I say, if they could fix this one thing it would at least make all the other sins less significant, it would be this.  When you can potentially take the main character out a show without it really affecting anything, you have a problem.

 

And it isn't DG--what (little) I've seen of this season shows that he can act.  It's the story, the writing and the direction.  That's all on Kouf, Greenwalt, and Carpenter.

[Darklazr]

If you had to come up with the ONE thing that is wrong with this show--or, should I say, if they could fix this one thing it would at least make all the other sins less significant, it would be this.  When you can potentially take the main character out a show without it really affecting anything, you have a problem.

 

And it isn't DG--what (little) I've seen of this season shows that he can act.  It's the story, the writing and the direction.  That's all on Kouf, Greenwalt, and Carpenter.

 

Look at this way, if DG breaks up with his girlfriend the show does not have to worry about coming up with more asinine ways to keep the character around and finally kill her off, for good!

[OtterMommy]

Look at this way, if DG breaks up with his girlfriend the show does not have to worry about coming up with more asinine ways to keep the character around and finally kill her off, for good!

 

Again, DG and BT's relationship has nothing to do with it, really.   The problem is with the creative team, not the actors.

 

DG and BT seem very, very happy together and I can't wish ill will on people I've never met because a TV show has gone down the crapper, especially when the fault lies with others.

Edited February 13, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

Again, DG and BT's relationship has nothing to do with it, really.   The problem is with the creative team, not the actors.

 

DG and BT seem very, very happy together and I can't wish ill will on people I've never met because a TV show has gone down the crapper, especially when the fault lies with others.

 

Why would the creative team go to such lengths if not for the actors in their current offscreen lifestyle?  Do you really want to tick off the lead's girlfriend by killing her off when she was the one that asked for more story for her character?  Juliette, IMO, bombed in s2 with the obsession and amnesia story, and the show went ahead because she is the lead's girlfriend and wrote more story for her in s4 and not killing her off, permanently.  

 

The more the show focuses on Juliette's nonsense story wise, the worse things are on the show and then factor in pregnant Adalind and we don't really need Truble when Nick should be the main Grimm.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Darklazr

[OtterMommy]

Why would the creative team go to such lengths if not for the actors in their current offscreen lifestyle?  Do you really want to tick off the lead's girlfriend by killing her off when she was the one that asked for more story for her character?  Juliette, IMO, bombed in s2 with the obsession and amnesia story, and the show went ahead because she is the lead's girlfriend and wrote more story for her in s4 and not killing her off, permanently.

 

Let's face it, K/G/C bad decisions are myriad on this show.  

 

DG, BT, and all the actors on this show are professionals--which means a couple of things.  One of which is that they should know that diva behavior is a no-go (and I have not heard one thing about diva behavior from ANYONE on the cast.  In fact, I've read many, many comments from extras/guests on the show who have said that the entire cast is one of the friendliest and least pretentious in the business) and that demanding that one actor stays because s/he is involved with another is not appropriate.

 

It also means that they all have contracts--which usually have clauses saying that their character can be written off if they story calls for it.  The decision to keep Juliette lies with K./G/C alone.

 

I think it is also important to remember that the actors are people--and they are entitled to happy, fulfilling relationships.  If DG and BT have that--and it seems that they do--more power to them.  Not everyone has that and I'm not going to begrudge anyone, especially people who are complete strangers, that happiness.

Edited February 13, 2016 by OtterMommy

[merylinkid]

It's the creative team.   They kept Claire Coffee around because they liked her.   They made Renard a grayer character rather than the bad guy because once they got to know the actor, they realized he was a nice guy and they liked him. Pretty sure neither of those 2 was dating DG and he asked to keep them around.   I am quite sure they are didn't kill off Juliette because they got to know the actress, liked her and just couldn't kill her off.   Never mind every single actor on the show is a human being, not a character created for this show.   You would be "killing off" a non-living thing if you killed off a character.   But somehow the creative team can't separate their friendship with the actors from their feelings for the characters.   

 

That's what is ruining this show.   They refuse to have a vision.   If they do have one, they are more than willing to revise it for personal reasons.    Why NBC handed these morons a development deal I have no idea.  It's a business.   Sometimes, you have to kill off a character because the story demands it (not because the audience needs it thank you very much Joss Whedon).   If you can't bring yourself to do what you gotta do, only write stories where everyone lives happily every after and nothing bad ever happens.

Edited February 13, 2016 by merylinkid

[OtterMommy]

That's what is ruining this show.   They refuse to have a vision.   If they do have one, they are more than willing to revise it for personal reasons.    Why NBC handed these morons a development deal I have no idea.  It's a business.   Sometimes, you have to kill off a character because the story demands it (not because the audience needs it thank you very much Joss Whedon).   If you can't bring yourself to do what you gotta do, only write stories where everyone lives happily every after and nothing bad ever happens.

 

Apparently, they want the fairy tale where everyone lives happily ever after. I suggest they read the original Grimm's Fairy tales....

 

K/G/C also lack cajones.  A lot has been said about BT demanding that her role be re-written.  To be honest, we don't actually know that happened.  She said in press interviews that she wanted Juliette to be strong on her own.  Who knows how that conversation actually went down.  It could have been an off the cuff remark, it could have been a "how are things" check in (I read in an interview with CC that Carpenter has conversations like that with the cast on almost a weekly basis).  But, for the sake of argument, let's say that BT went in and said that they had to change Juliette or she would walk.

 

If that was the case, K/G/C had every right to say one word.  "No."

 

So even if the worst about BT is true (and I'm convinced it isn't), the fault is STILL with the creative team.  The buck stops with them.

[merylinkid]

 

She said in press interviews that she wanted Juliette to be strong on her own.

Assume for the sake of argument, she went to the creative team and said this.   Not really anything wrong with it.   And the team, because they are nice people, thought about it and said yes.   Still really nothing wrong with it.   

 

But "strong on her own" does not equal out of control killing machine drunk on power that has to be beaten in to a robotic state.   Again, as with the amnesia storyline it was the execution that was oh so wrong.   With the amnesia storyline we could have gotten the fairytale ending where we see Nick and Juliette date and fall in love all over again.   Except this time it ends with Nick telling Juliette he is a Grimm and bringing her on as an integral part of the Grimm Group.   Instead we got obession with Renard and the sex/fight scene.   

 

Heavens, they had the perfect set up.   Her friend who was being abused.   It could have been Juliette who stood up and helped her get free of the guy.   Except we had one episode of them then gone.   Or she could have found out that some rogue wesen was attacking the pets of Portland because she suddenly saw a lot of suspicious injuries in her vet practice (remember THAT job?).   Oh so many ways you can show a woman being strong without making her "bad ass."

 

Rosalee is strong on her own.   She runs her own business.   She overcame drug addiction.   She beats up guys who put her husband's in harm's way.   She loves Monroe and would do anything for him, but she doesn't NEED him to function.   Somehow, the creative team missed this fact when writing for Juliette.

[OtterMommy]

Assume for the sake of argument, she went to the creative team and said this.   Not really anything wrong with it.   And the team, because they are nice people, thought about it and said yes.   Still really nothing wrong with it.   

 

Right, there is nothing wrong with BT--or any actress--going to the producers of their show with concerns about the future of their character.  Just like there isn't anything wrong with any woman working in any industry voicing their opinion and having a say in their own career path (channeling my inner Sheryl Sandberg there....lean in, girls!  Lean in!)

 

Now, it might be questionable, at best, if BT went to the creative team and said, "Look, here's what you are going to do.  You are going to turn Juliette into a hexenbiest and make her go batshit crazy and then make it look like you are going to kill her.  But, you are really going to bring her back as a super weapon."  However, I can't say there is anything "wrong" with that because, ultimately, the decision is still up to the creative team.  (I also cannot believe that it went down that way AT ALL.  First of all, BT is a smart woman and she has a reputation of being very easy to work with, so it would make no sense at all for that.  Secondly, the whole Juliette arc has been a special variety of crap that only K/G/C can come up with.)

 

I think we're in danger of scapegoating BT here.  Look, it's not just her and it's not just Juliette.  I think instead we should think that it IS just Rosalee--that character is a fluke.  She works because there is something concrete for her to do in the show AND the actress playing her is skilled enough to imbue the character with an intelligence that isn't written into the script.

 

Let's consider all the other females in this show who have been more than just guest stars:  All that leaves us is Juliette, Adalind, and Trubel--and all are one-dimensional characters that either play on tired feminine stereotypes or, in Trubel's case, have no feminine attributes (again, when I say feminine I don't mean pretty dresses and lots of makeup.  I mean the experience of being female--the only reason I can tell that Trubel is female is that they had already established that female Grimms get their sight earlier and they needed a young character.  Beyond that, her gender makes absolutely no difference at all).

 

K/G/C have no ability to create interesting, multi-faceted female characters.  Heck, I'm not even sure they can create interesting, multi-faceted male characters at this point.  I can't blame BT, or any actress, for wanting more.  I can blame K/G/C for the inability to actually deliver on it.

[Commando Cody]

I keep envisioning this show ending the same way Angel did. 

[OtterMommy]

I keep envisioning this show ending the same way Angel did. 

 

Gotta ask...how did it end (I never watched it....)

[Commando Cody]

I'll send you a PM. It's an old show, but it's always possible that someone might want to watch it. 

[Save Yourself]

Am I the only one who feels like it's really inappropriate to repeatedly get pregnant while under contract to a show that includes maintaining the same look as the character? Like, you're under contract, literally, to do this. If you want to have lots of babies, you should be responsible and ask to be written off, like a grown adult who wants to be let out of a contract, instead of straight up breaching it. It's really starting to irritate me that shows are being forced to write around actresses who get pregnant more than once during the run of their show when that is straight up breach of contract that would be permitted in no other medium and in no other way if online fandoms weren't full of insane crazy people right now? If my job was a massage therapist but I kept coming into work with long ass acrylics on and it started affecting everyone there because appointments had to be rescheduled and people kept having to cover my shifts, I'd get fired, because that would defeat the purpose of me having that job. Do the thing you need to do for whatever your job is, or take a break from having that job for a minute. Damn.

Just something that's been bugging me for awhile. Like in general, about TV. And also about freakin Claire Coffee and her goddamn devil spawn plaguing this show and forcing us into a rapelurrrrrve story, How goddamn irresponsible.

I actually thought you were trolling when I first read this but you've defended your stance since so I have written my response.

No it's not irresponsible, it's a part of life and the only ones who can have babies are women. If they did what you want we would have many female actors only in roles for a very short amount of time or constantly being written in and out of series which would be much more frustrating than a TV show accomodating a pregnancy. Your irritation should be directed at the creative team for not writing around real life pregnancies in a better way if you don't think they are doing it to your satisfaction. Most TV actors contracts at the start of a series are 5 years, it is not reasonable to expect that every female actor will not fall pregnant (however many times she wants) during that entire time as it is a basic human right. Women only have a relatively short window of time to have children, if they put it off for too long there is a big chance they will never carry a pregnancy to term. Mariska Hargitay has been on SVU for 17 years and has three children but according to you her bosses should have made a communist ruling that she can only have one child. No acting contract forbids pregnancy or requires that the actor gives a heads up before they become pregnant. To have a contract like that would be illegal, immoral, unethical and inhumane. It is not a breach of contract because no sane person would conflate a pregnancy with cutting your hair differently to your character or having a spray tan before coming onto set. The masseuse comparison you describe is bizarre, it's hardly a human right for someone to have long nails but it is a human right for someone to procreate. And Claire Coffee isn't forcing any story, it is the writers and for you to refer to CC's child as devil spawn is repugnant. If you're meaning Adalind - which I hope you are - use that because it's a very shitty thing to say something that awful about a real person.

ETA: this is not a new thing and has nothing to do with crazy fan forums, women have been having babies for a long time now and TV shows have worked around the pregnant women.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Save Yourself

[OtterMommy]

Behind the door will be the show we used to know and love. Kind of like Earth 1 and 2 on The Flash.

Nick is a cop and a Grimm and back to being a hero

There's Juliette as the background character she was meant to be.

There are no babies anywhere.

The show remembers who the real bad-asses are:

Adalind is evil and kicks ass

Trubel kicks ass

Kelly is alive and kicks ass

Rosalee kicks ass by being smart and resourceful.

 

 

Sigh..if only fixing this show was as easy as opening a door...

 

There have been shows that made a wrong turn, or wrong turns, and were able to right themselves down the road.  With Grimm, however, it isn't that easy.  They've done 2 things that are, as far as I can tell, impossible to come back from.

 

1 - Baby Kelly

In the grand scheme of things, Baby Diana isn't that big of a deal since we never see her and she's really only tied to one major character.  Kelly, on the other hand, changed the landscape.  He is, as far as we know, the son of the hero and the villain.  His conception was a major plot point...his future could be a major plot point...and he's a cute baby.  No show is going to get rid of a baby like him...and his presence and the trajectory it set the show can't be reversed.

 

2 - The Uprising/Resistance/Whatever

Pretty much overnight, they changed the show from a procedural to whatever the hell this is.  It was a clunky, messy transition and the posters on this forum were not the only people complaining about it by far.  As misguided and ridiculous a transition it was, how are they going to go back to a Crime of the Week format?  A plot like this--however ridiculous it is--cannot just be just brushed under the rug and forgotten about.

 

So, I guess the viewers have 2 choices.  Accept that this is Grimm from now on or give up on the show completely.  I'm coming closer and closer to the latter.

[Prevailing Wind]

How about... when Nick finally uses the WD-40 and gets the hatch open, when he goes through it, he's back in his kitchen with Aunt Marie telling him to leave Juliette.  We can re-start from there.

[TVSpectator]

How about... when Nick finally uses the WD-40 and gets the hatch open, when he goes through it, he's back in his kitchen with Aunt Marie telling him to leave Juliette.  We can re-start from there.

 

I see what you did there, you made Grimm into Narnia ;-) !

Edited February 14, 2016 by TVSpectator

[ShadowFacts]

Sigh..if only fixing this show was as easy as opening a door...

 

There have been shows that made a wrong turn, or wrong turns, and were able to right themselves down the road.  With Grimm, however, it isn't that easy.  They've done 2 things that are, as far as I can tell, impossible to come back from.

 

1 - Baby Kelly

In the grand scheme of things, Baby Diana isn't that big of a deal since we never see her and she's really only tied to one major character.  Kelly, on the other hand, changed the landscape.  He is, as far as we know, the son of the hero and the villain.  His conception was a major plot point...his future could be a major plot point...and he's a cute baby.  No show is going to get rid of a baby like him...and his presence and the trajectory it set the show can't be reversed.

 

2 - The Uprising/Resistance/Whatever

Pretty much overnight, they changed the show from a procedural to whatever the hell this is.  It was a clunky, messy transition and the posters on this forum were not the only people complaining about it by far.  As misguided and ridiculous a transition it was, how are they going to go back to a Crime of the Week format?  A plot like this--however ridiculous it is--cannot just be just brushed under the rug and forgotten about.

 

So, I guess the viewers have 2 choices.  Accept that this is Grimm from now on or give up on the show completely.  I'm coming closer and closer to the latter.

 

I think they could write themselves out of the corner they've written themselves into.  As to the baby, either Mommy moves out into a secure building on her own, or with Nick in agreement goes with Meisner and baby Kelly to a far corner of the globe.  The big war could be won by the HW for the moment, with the wesen leaders and followers more or less vanquished, but we see pockets of them reappearing, a la real world events with Isis and the like.  And if Juliette has to stay on the show, she could have small episodes of not controlling/losing her powers, and Elizabeth could reappear to explain that sometimes these things take permanent hold, and sometimes not.  You just never know.  Maybe my ideas are lame-ish, and maybe they will never go back to their original recipe, but I wouldn't mind seeing it regress.  Because it was better before. 

[Darklazr]

At the end of the wesen uprising, Juliette loses her powers permanently and then goes back to being wallpaper not involved with anyone else on the show.

 

Adalind dies and Nick is a single father.

 

Truble moves on to her own show along with Meisner and eventually ends up in Europe never to be seen or heard from, ever.

 

Nick, Hank, Wu, Monroe, Rosalie and Renard carry on with their badass selves solving fairytales of the week stories.

[johntfs]

Right, there is nothing wrong with BT--or any actress--going to the producers of their show with concerns about the future of their character.  Just like there isn't anything wrong with any woman working in any industry voicing their opinion and having a say in their own career path (channeling my inner Sheryl Sandberg there....lean in, girls!  Lean in!)

 

Now, it might be questionable, at best, if BT went to the creative team and said, "Look, here's what you are going to do.  You are going to turn Juliette into a hexenbiest and make her go batshit crazy and then make it look like you are going to kill her.  But, you are really going to bring her back as a super weapon."  However, I can't say there is anything "wrong" with that because, ultimately, the decision is still up to the creative team.  (I also cannot believe that it went down that way AT ALL.  First of all, BT is a smart woman and she has a reputation of being very easy to work with, so it would make no sense at all for that.  Secondly, the whole Juliette arc has been a special variety of crap that only K/G/C can come up with.)

 

I think we're in danger of scapegoating BT here.  Look, it's not just her and it's not just Juliette.  I think instead we should think that it IS just Rosalee--that character is a fluke.  She works because there is something concrete for her to do in the show AND the actress playing her is skilled enough to imbue the character with an intelligence that isn't written into the script.

 

Let's consider all the other females in this show who have been more than just guest stars:  All that leaves us is Juliette, Adalind, and Trubel--and all are one-dimensional characters that either play on tired feminine stereotypes or, in Trubel's case, have no feminine attributes (again, when I say feminine I don't mean pretty dresses and lots of makeup.  I mean the experience of being female--the only reason I can tell that Trubel is female is that they had already established that female Grimms get their sight earlier and they needed a young character.  Beyond that, her gender makes absolutely no difference at all).

 

K/G/C have no ability to create interesting, multi-faceted female characters.  Heck, I'm not even sure they can create interesting, multi-faceted male characters at this point.  I can't blame BT, or any actress, for wanting more.  I can blame K/G/C for the inability to actually deliver on it.

 

This.  All of this.

 

Facing facts, Grimm is/was pretty much a middling-decent TV.  While some actors/actresses are better than others, no one on this show is winning any Academy awards, but no one is this guy either.

 

 

For me the biggest flaws Grimm has are in the pacing (the Prologue seems to take a full act while Acts 3-4 are crammed into the last 5 minutes) and the missed opportunities.  What Black Claw wasn't "New Nazism" but more of a legitimate movement with an extremist faction?  One part was a more violent Malcolm X and the was MLK Jr.  Wesen do have something of a shitty situation on this show.  They're disallowed from fully expressing who they are for fear of extermination.  If anything they're the Jews in any "Nazi" story.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I used to really look forward to this show, but I just CANNOT with Eve. Nope. WALLPAPER was supposed to be her fate. Now she's really loud, strobing wallpaper that hurts your eyes and gives you a headache when you look at it.

 

Well said.  Her appearance is very jarring to me, too.  I want to look away.  Or laugh.

[OtterMommy]

I still can't believe they're really doubling down on the Hitler-as-Wesen shit. But so they are.

 

I'm not currently watching the show (but I do have the last 2 eps sitting on my DVR), so I don't know the details, but I find this really disturbing.

 

For a long time, Nazis were the "safe" enemy in entertainment.  You could make your enemy a Nazi and not worry about offending anyone and, sometimes, that's still true.  I mean, if you are using actual Nazi characters, sure...  Nazis were really, really bad (and people don't see Nazis and an ethnic group--Germans--as the same thing, so you aren't saying that GERMANS are bad...just Nazis).

 

You get in trouble when you start evoking Nazism.  Well, specifically with this show, it sounds like they aren't doing a good job of it anyway, so that's problematic.  But, in general, when you start doing Nazi-like stuff willy-nilly you're really saying that Nazis (and the Holocaust) weren't that serious, that they are fodder for entertainment.  You are cheapening history, and a history where horrible atrocities occurred and MILLIONS of civilians were tortured and killed.

 

It is actually to have bad guys who have nothing whatsoever to do with Nazis.  This is a supernatural show...have some freaking witches and warlocks!  But, if you are going to dip your quill into WWII, you had better have a damn good idea of what you are doing...and, as usual, K/G/C do not.

 

End of rant....

 

And, yes, I do have a degree in History....

[OtterMommy]

A lot of shows/movies ALLUDE to it without making it the actual thing. For instance, Harry Potter and the "mudbloods." 

 

Like everything else on this show, they couldn't get creative and do something LIKE Nazism, so they do literal Nazism. 

 

Alluding to is one thing...that can actually be quite effective (Mudbloods, as you said.  Also the Empire in the Star Wars movies).   I think I used the word "evoke" above, which wasn't exactly what I was trying to say.  Ripping off might have been a better term...

 

 However, just trying to replicate it and call it something else is incredibly reckless and irresponsible.  It's like when people refer to politicians they don't like as Hitler.  If there are actual issues that politician espouses that echo Nazism, that's one thing.  If you just don't like the guy (or gal)...that's another.  And it's not okay.

Edited February 15, 2016 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

Yeah. Not a fan of people arbitrarily calling people "Hitler."  Except for a certain politician, because his views do literally echo Nazism. Or Nazi-adjacent.

 

But if they're just a giant dick, then yes, that's a whole other story.

 

I think that we're thinking of the same instance where using the Hitler name is valid! 

 

But, bringing it back to the show....it has NEVER been a "sensitive" show. 

• Someone mentioned that there was some controversy back in season 1 with the Geiers and antisemitism.  I binge watched that season after it aired, so I missed the discussion but, in retrospect, I can see the problem there.
• The Mishipishu episode last season was, at the very least, culturally insensitive.  It mashed up a bunch of Native American traditions (kind of like if you took a Philippine folk tale, gave the characters Japanese names, set it in China, and told it in Korea.  It's all Asian, right?) as well as playing up stereotypes.
• Airing a Kristallnacht inspired episode, especially during Hannukah 
• The Russian mafia-ish episode in Season 3 (I think) was all cliches taken from cold war era movies
• Pretty much anything that dealt with Rape outside of the military (they surprisingly handled rape IN the military quite well!)
• All but one of the female characters in this show

 

Again, I really can't understand why NBC lets this go on.  It's not like they aren't able to do these things well--La Llorona, El Cucuy, and the Aswang are all "cultural" episodes that were quite good.  But, more often than not, K/G/C just go off the deep end without any sort of thought of what they are actually doing or saying with an episode or plot.

Edited February 15, 2016 by OtterMommy

[merylinkid]

I get what you are saying about using real Nazism.   It kinda excuses it.   Oh they were just rogue wesen, not people who CHOSE to do this to their friends, neighbors, etc.   It was this weird subculture that wanted their rights recognized.  

[Darklazr]

I could see Black Claw just wanting to be free, but not at the expense of killing off unwilling wesens or humans that don't know about their existence.  Overkill, IMO.  However, what if the Royal Houses are involved with Black Claw to the extent that they want to kill off the overpopulation of wesens and to get the last three keys?  Nick has two keys, but the Royals only think he has one.  There could be a struggle of BC that show their woged faces and humans screaming in fear and other wesens afraid of the outcome by going public.  

 

Anywho....

 

Renard's latest bed bunny seemed to want to loosen him up for his TV ad and the sex did the trick.  Sigh.  Renard is hot, but he's a dumb mofo...and this bed bunny will be another version of Adalind or Catherine or Juliette or the chick whose sex scenes were cut in s2.  Whatever.  Renard should be working on finding the mole, dealing with HW and being a badass!

Edited February 15, 2016 by Darklazr

[anamika]

That's what is ruining this show.   They refuse to have a vision.   If they do have one, they are more than willing to revise it for personal reasons.    Why NBC handed these morons a development deal I have no idea.  It's a business.   Sometimes, you have to kill off a character because the story demands it (not because the audience needs it thank you very much Joss Whedon).   If you can't bring yourself to do what you gotta do, only write stories where everyone lives happily every after and nothing bad ever happens.

 

  This right here is what is responsible for everything that is wrong with Grimm. They laid down so many intriguing easter eggs in season one and all of that came to naught. Remember Renard's minions (' I need your wrath!')? The keys were introduced in the very first episode and they have just started exploring that in season 5. Even the case of the week was fun and well written with some dry humor. The greenery and colors of Portland made it all so beautiful. The Pied Piper, Hansel and Gretel, Wolves Vs Pigs. In season 2, Renard was having adventures with the resistance for several episodes. All that was a waste of time, because it went nowhere.

 

   Instead of focusing on the mythology of the show, they focused on the worst character I have had the misfortune of seeing on a TV show. I get that the producers really like BT. I can see this from the numerous pictures the cast share: Having dinner at the producer's house or partying at the producer's holiday ranch. Unfortunately, unable to  get rid of a useless character because of their affection for the actor has made the show an unwatchable mess.

 

And it's not exactly BT saying that Juliette needs to be strong on her own. The writing is getting shittier, because the actors make recommendations that the writers bend over to accommodate. For example, BT mentioned in one of her older comic con interviews (For season 3 I think) that she would love to do fight scenes and talked to the producers about Juliette having fight scenes. So the writers then sit down and write some shit scene where Juliette with her twig like arms manages to beat up a wesen (Who even police trained and muscled Hank and special powers Grimm Nick find hard to take down) and come up with an episode that allows Juliette to do that.  From what I can observe from her interviews and twitter remarks, BT (And the show's producers/writers) feels that a female character is a strong female character if she is kicking ass. Which is not at all what a 'strong female character' is about.

 

The story and plot is shaped around what an actor wants to do. Rather than the characters serving an over arching plot, the plot is serving the characters which is influenced by what the actors want to do. We need an episode where BT can show off her spanish speaking skils? Every season should feature a spanish wesen where Juliette is the only person to speak Spanish. We need an episode where Juliette can show off her vet/doctor/scientist/Ph.D research scholar skills? Write an episode about some wesen illness blah blah. Season 3 was full of this nonsense. And I am sorry, but Nick/Juliette is one of the worst on screen couples I have seen. After 5 seasons, I have no idea why these two are still  together.

 

This is one reason why I feel that Russel Hornsby has been essentially ignored on the show. He comes off as easy going in his interviews and accepting of whatever they throw at Hank.  For someone who is billed second, Hank has been massively put aside. And as someone said above, Hank and Wu are basically interchangeable at this point. I can understand that the humans are more boring compared to wesen, but then why spend so much time on the most boring character there is: Juliette?

 

I have always felt that the writers of this show treat the female characters rather patronizingly. You want badass? Look at Rosalee punching out the bad guy. Monroe then praises Rosalee's punching skills. Juliette turns up with her gun to protect Rosalee and all the men are so amazed and proud of the badassery! The plot is written to highlight that the female characters are bad ass. I mentioned this some time earlier, but take Mad Max Fury Road. No one needs to highlight how bad ass Furiosa is. The plot and the story tells us this. In Grimm, Juliette being bad ass is the lynchpin and the plot then revolves around that.  It gave us Juliette as Hexenbeist and now it gives us Juliette as Eve (I am guessing Eve is also a gun toting, wesen bashing bad ass). If the producers wanted a Buffy remake, they should have just started with that.

 

The writing for Renard is also fairly terrible. He should have stayed a villain, but as someone mentioned above, they liked Sasha Roiz too much for that. So they made him a good guy. Nick and Monroe are the only half way decently written characters with some back story and development.

 

This whole Scooby gang thing has also became nauseating. Everyone knows the truth, so no suspense or intrigue. When they meet up, every character has to get a line of dialogue. Juliette, the vet who looks like a stiff wind will blow her away, goes along to hunt down and kill some wesen for some reason and everyone walks purposefully down the corridor looking all 'bad ass'. The writers don't seem to understand that not every character is necessary to tell a story. If only Hank and Nick are needed, use the others sparingly. As I mentioned earlier, I have gotten tired of all the characters. They have been over used, they bring nothing new to the table. I have even gotten tired of Bud. His Schtick has became old real quick.

 

All in all, the show has been done for. It's sad, because with a bunch of good writers and an over arching vision and planned story, they could have had a really good show on their hands. In hindsight, I should have seen this coming after the Juliette debacle in season 2. The need to focus on this character above all else, showed that they did not have a vision or a story for their series. But I will not be sad to see it cancelled now. I hope it does.

[johntfs]

With all that, as Ottermommy notes, they could have said "No."  I admit I'm a little bit concerned about the Rosalee storyline.  I'm hoping Bree Turner didn't ask the showrunners for "maybe a bit of angst or something" and suddenly Rosalee gets to become a crack-whore.  Approaching the showrunners with a character idea is like wishing on a monkey's paw.

[Crim]

Earth to the Grimm writers: I don't care about Black Claw any more than I cared about the Royals or the keys. I don't care about Seans' political leanings, or his love life. I like the case of the week, the spice shop, Rosalee, Monroe, Wu, Hank. Every single time a writing staff decides to go all crazy with arc themes, etc, the show jumps the shark: Sleepy Hollow and Person of interest come to mind.

IMO Grimm's failed approach to story arcs is the exact opposite of, say, Person of Interest (though I understand someone might object to the change itself): whereas in shows like PoI everything comes together for the story, and they don't just thin out the procedural aspect, but are actually less of a procedural in retrospect too (so many CotW and seemingly minor events/flashbacks are revealed to have been the story all along), Grimm always had some story arc going, but it was always completely unrelated to the CotW, and then, crucially, it went nowhere. ALL these previous stories were either dropped (keys), solved in an unsatisfactory manner just to get them over with (Royals), reversed in an unsatisfactory manner just to return the character to the fray (pretty much everything Juliette), or treated as they never happened (zombie Nick, pretty much everything Adalind), or a hellish combination thereof (Ripper Renard fits all bills and is possibly the single most obviously pointless so far). Which is to say that in Grimm the story arcs never actually mattered, and nothing of importance would have been lost from giving up the attempt because the show runners never had a plan to get anywhere. This is not a failure of "go all crazy with arc themes". What all fails in Grimm's story telling seem to indicate is that there actually was no arc, just a series of ideas to write about for the moment.

 

The same goes for characterization: people acting and interacting as the plot required it, with just the occasional continuity, and a reset or a twist always at hand. The expanding cast was a misstep at every turn; you can't do character dynamics like BtvS or even Angel without a strong sense of who the people are, good writing to back it up, and a sense that the shared history shapes current interactions. Grimm is the very opposite of all this, so it was set up for failure.

 

If only the show runners had the guts to admit not just that they can't properly execute story arcs, but that they can't really come up with them to begin with. They could hire an entire squad of new writers who can keep track of continuity and it would not matter one bit when there is no destination. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Grimm should have just gone full procedural with a constant - both in numbers and in characterization - cast. Why the show runners still think they could do better, I can barely imagine.

 

 

 

I'm hoping Bree Turner didn't ask the showrunners for "maybe a bit of angst or something" and suddenly Rosalee gets to become a crack-whore. Approaching the showrunners with a character idea is like wishing on a monkey's paw.

I lol-ed. Yes, when the show runners feel the need to go with such a development - any development, really - , they should just have an "It was just a dream!" episode and get it out of everyone's system with minimum impact on the show.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Crim

[OtterMommy]

We need an episode where BT can show off her spanish speaking skils? Every season should feature a spanish wesen where Juliette is the only person to speak Spanish.

 

I agree completely with is post....but this line made me think of something.

 

Juliette, at least by what they have shown, is actually not the only Spanish speaking character.  Admittedly, this was just a stupid, stupid slip by the show....but...

 

In the Coyotl episode early in the 2nd season, there is a scene where Nick has Monroe over to translate some books for him and Monroe does his finger along the page thing he does when he's reading German...except the camera pans down and the page is written in Spanish.  I remember thinking, "Woah...he speaks Spanish, too?"  But then it was never mentioned again.

 

Sloppy, but rather amusing in hindsight.

[johntfs]

I kind of like it when Bitsie gets her Spanish on.  Her dialogue seems to flow better within the scenes somehow.