S06.E16: Red Meat

[IamBob]

-Does the Governor of Illinois have a huge security team like the President does? I know that my Governor's motorcade is one SUV -- the one he's in. A couple of security guys in the vehicle with him, and a couple of uniformed officers at the venue when he arrived. The only time they use the lights/siren is in an emergency.

-I've seen so many people that have firm beliefs on "big" political topics like abortion whose argument comes down to nothing better than "Well, it's legal, OK!"

-The Florrick Victory Party would not have been at campaign HQ, especially if it was a campaign as monumentally huge as they made this race out to be. You have that type of thing at a hotel ballroom so that the top campaign people can hole up in HQ all day without dodging party people. I've worked on several campaigns where we transformed a couple of hotel rooms into campaign HQ on election day.

[CoderLady]

I briefly wondered why all these busy urban dwellers were in-person voters instead of mail-ins which has been the trend for years now, but of course it's because it's Drama.

[Noreaster]

I briefly wondered why all these busy urban dwellers were in-person voters instead of mail-ins which has been the trend for years now, but of course it's because it's Drama.

Not that I'd be surprised if the show got it wrong, but mail-in voting does vary by state. Is it a big thing in Illinois?  

[ennui]

Nationwide, absentee ballots are 20%. However, 1 in 5 mail-in ballots didn't get counted in 2008, so people are encouraged to vote in person.

 

I got this information from a 'net search, btw.

Edited March 26, 2015 by ennui

[izabella]

Not that I'd be surprised if the show got it wrong, but mail-in voting does vary by state. Is it a big thing in Illinois?  

 

Not really.  They don't make it easy to cast absentee ballots.  You have to sign up for that before each election, which is a pain in the ass.  Contrast that with California where I used to live, where you sign up as an absentee voter once and they happily send you mail-in ballots for every election after that.  I never voted in person when I lived in Cali, but always do in Illinois. 

 

I loved voting absentee - you have all the time in the world to research the propositions and candidates for the minor elected positions (like STATES ATTORNEY!) before voting so you're not seeing them for the first time while standing at a voting booth.  For people with jobs where they travel or have a hard time getting out of work, it's a godsend.  I imagine that would help eliminate some of the nonsense that goes on with polling places that try to limit minority voting as much as possible.

Edited March 26, 2015 by izabella

[MakeMeLaugh]

In Chicago most people who work downtown take the El or a commuter train--few drive. But I'll give the show a pass on it. And Illinois has early voting as well as absentee but the contests are almost always clear and declared by the media when the polls close (it would be very unusual for the non-election day votes to vary that much, especially if the race wasn't close at the polls). Once the loser concedes, I wonder if the mailed in absentee ballots would even get counted--would the election become "live" again if the count showed a different winner, or is it already over because of the concession?

[izabella]

They absolutely have to count the mail-in votes no matter what.  Many are mailed in advance of election day, so they get counted right away.

 

A candidate conceding means nothing, expect as a courtesy.  They keep counting until they're done with the ballots, and only then is there an official tally and legal winner regardless of the news media reports.

Edited March 26, 2015 by izabella

[MakeMeLaugh]

Actually in Illinois the absentee ballots are not counted until the polls close (http://www.nass.org/component/docman/?task=doc_download&gid=461&Itemid=). But yes, they do get counted, I misspoke.

[dcalley]

Mailed ballots "may be processed by the election authority beginning on the 15th day before election day in the central ballot counting location of the election authority, but the results of the processing may not be counted until the day of the election after 7:00 p.m." Presumably this means that at 7:01 a good number of votes are officially on the books. Source (You have to scroll halfway down to "(Text of Section after amendment by P.A. 98-1171)" to see the current text because this page is currently a before-and-after for a recent change in the law.)

 

I am glad the election is over with. I'm still watching, but I am close to being done with this show because of dislike, frustration, and boredom.

[merylinkid]

Actually, a concesion is a legally binding act.   I can't remember the race, but it came out very close, not close enough to trigger an automatic recount, but close enough that it would be a good idea for the loser.   But the court ruled that because the loser had already conceded, he was not entitled to a recount.   Moral:   Don't concede.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Did the show actually say downtown because I can't remember? If they did it would be one more thing they get wrong about Chicago. It's the loop not downtown and yes you would walk to your polling place if you lived anywhere in the loop or in the adjacent neighborhoods.

The helicopter traffic guys says, "Northbound Lower Wacker is your best bet."

 

Then the newscaster says, "As you can see from this footage, traffic is at a standstill in the Loop because of the governor's speech. If possible, you're going to want to avoid that area at all costs."

 

Josh then says, "He's giving a last minute speech at Daley Plaza and that's going to kill Prady's turnout."

Edited March 27, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TigerLynx]

I'm glad the election is over.  Unfortunately, I don't think this is the end.  I'm still expecting all the secrets to come out and blow everything up.  I wish Alicia would tell Peter they should divorce, and if that means neither of them get elected to public office again, it will still be worth it to be out of a sham marriage.

 

The biggest problem I have with the legal stuff is that it devolved into constant internal fighting at one firm or another.  According to the show, Diane, Will, David Lee, Alicia, Cary, etc., all brought something important to the table so them shooting themselves in the foot every other week by joining, quitting, forming a new firm, rejoining a firm, trying to oust each other, etc., was stupid and got boring very quickly.

[Ohmo]

 

 

Also, Oliver Platt was on The West Wing, adding to the general West Wing nostalgia.

 

 

 

Are the writers of this show aware that Kathryn Joosten, who played Mrs Landingham on The West Wing (as well as many other great character roles on many TV shows) passed away from cancer 3 years ago?  I found all the references to "get the woman who played the dead secretary on West Wing" incredibly jarring and disrespectful in light of that. 

 

I've now watched this episode, so I feel better able to comment.  The thread with Mrs. Landingham about made me lose my mind, and if I were the Kings, Ms. Spellman (the writer of this episode) would be suspended from my staff for the forseeable future based on sheer stupidity and inability to do research!  There have been several West Wing references in TGW as of late, and I can understand that an average viewer might not know that Katherine Joosten is now dead, but if you're a (supposed) professional television writer and you're going to use one of the most well-known political dramas in your own TV episode, one would think that one would use this highly-sophisticated tool known as Google to, I don't know, do some basic research on its actors so you don't write something stupid?  Ms. Spellman made herself and her characters look like blithering idiots.  The Kings should also suspend themselves for not catching such an error.  If you're going to use somthing like that, it's your responsibility to do research.  (FYI to the Kings and Ms. Spellman: It's a good thing the campaign is over.  Otherwise, we would have probably gotten Leo jokes in next week's episode.  John Spencer, who played Leo, is also dead.)

 

(In case it's not obvious, I found this highly offensive and completely preventable!)

 

The Good Wife has pretty much done the impossible: It made me HATE a political storyline AND it misused one of the great political dramas in TV (in my opinion).

 

I'm so, so sorry that Alicia won.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Ohmo

[Tetraneutron]

The show knew that both Mrs. Landigham and Kathryn Joosten are dead. The point was Johnny and Josh, the characters, didn't know that. The plot, and the humour, is supposed to derive from the fact that they're panicked and desperate and trying to do the impossible (find a recognizable high-profile person to record a robocall about parking meters - a trivial issue - for a tiny local race in Chicago). And do it all in a few hours.

 

Josh keeps getting things wrong in terms of who these people are and what characters they played because he doesn't remember much about an old TV show he probably just watched casually, if at all. He's grasping, and thinking anyone from The West Wing would record a robocall about parking meters, and if they did, doesn't get it would be some obscure regular actor who the public wouldn't know, or associate with The West Wing, because mosrt people don't remember stuff like that.

 

Of course the writers know that Mrs. Landigham and Kathryn Joosten are dead. Thy had Melissa Fitzgerald say the former, for one. That's part of the joke. It's funny how badly Josh is floundering, how mad he's getting, how inept he is at this thing. The audience knows Josh won't even meet his tiny, reduced goal.

[Ohmo]

Of course the writers know that Mrs. Landigham and Kathryn Joosten are dead. Thy had Melissa Fitzgerald say the former, for one. That's part of the joke. It's funny how badly Josh is floundering, how mad he's getting, how inept he is at this thing. The audience knows Josh won't even meet his tiny, reduced goal.

 

I just looked at the episode again, and Melissa Fitzgerard does not say anything about the death of Mrs. Landingham.  She corrects Josh about the omission of the word "The" in "The West Wing," and she reminds him that she did not play Mrs. Landingham.  In any case, I find ignorance of The West Wing offensive when it involves the death of an actual person in real life.  The two names that were used for the calls were Bradley Whitford and Martin Sheen, two major cast members who are alive and well.  Presumably, Ms. Spellman and the Kings knew well enough not to call John Spencer (Leo), and they had the sense to skip to Leo's deputy, Josh (played by Bradley Whitford). 

 

The "joke" (and I use that term loosely) may have been funny if the character of Mrs. Landingham had been the only death, and Kathryn Joosten had been alive and well but unavailable, thus moving on to Melissa Fitzgerald, who played Carole.  Since both the character of Mrs. Landingham and the actual person who played her are dead, i found the reference to be in poor taste.  The Wilford Brimley reference was tacky as well, but at least Johnny and Josh acknowledged that Wilford Brimley (the actual, real-life person) was dead.  TGW could have made jokes about Sam's call girl (played by the living Lisa Edelstein) or about any dead West Wing character that Ms. Spellman and the Kings wished, but to use a dead character whose portrayer is also dead in order to get a cheap laugh is tasteless, in my opinion.  My first comment remains the same, whether the decision was ignorant or intentional.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Ohmo

[Kel Varnsen]

To me the biggest joke was the fact that Johnny could even get Martin Sheen on the phone, especially that quickly. Because that was supposed to be a joke right?

[Kiddvideo]

I don't understand why they needed to do an homage to The West Wing at all. Is there a parallel I'm missing? It seems like too important an episode to treat it so lightly. Lazy writing?

[j5cochran]

I just looked at the episode again, and Melissa Fitzgerard does not say anything about the death of Mrs. Landingham.  She corrects Josh about the omission of the word "The" in "The West Wing," and she reminds him that she did not play Mrs. Landingham.  In any case, I find ignorance of The West Wing offensive when it involves the death of an actual person in real life.  The two names that were used for the calls were Bradley Whitford and Martin Sheen, two major cast members who are alive and well.  Presumably, Ms. Spellman and the Kings knew well enough not to call John Spencer (Leo), and they had the sense to skip to Leo's deputy, Josh (played by Bradley Whitford). 

 

The "joke" (and I use that term loosely) may have been funny if the character of Mrs. Landingham had been the only death, and Kathryn Joosten had been alive and well but unavailable, thus moving on to Melissa Fitzgerald, who played Carole.  Since both the character of Mrs. Landingham and the actual person who played her are dead, i found the reference to be in poor taste.  The Wilford Brimley reference was tacky as well, but at least Johnny and Josh acknowledged that Wilford Brimley (the actual, real-life person) was dead.  TGW could have made jokes about Sam's call girl (played by the living Lisa Edelstein) or about any dead West Wing character that Ms. Spellman and the Kings wished, but to use a dead character whose portrayer is also dead in order to get a cheap laugh is tasteless, in my opinion.  My first comment remains the same, whether the decision was ignorant or intentional.

 

Wilford Brimley is still alive and has a film coming out this year.  It's called Timber The Treasure Dog, about a talking dog, but still . . . .

[ennui]

Actually in Illinois the absentee ballots are not counted until the polls close (http://www.nass.org/component/docman/?task=doc_download&gid=461&Itemid=). But yes, they do get counted, I misspoke.

But every year there's a report that military ballots go uncounted.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are uncounted ballots at the end of every election. Does anyone here really respect a candidate who demands a recount? Has the result ever changed?

[Ohmo]

Wilford Brimley is still alive and has a film coming out this year.  It's called Timber The Treasure Dog, about a talking dog, but still . . . .

 

Seriously, that's good to know. For some reason, I was under the impression that he had died a few years ago.  Thanks for the clarification.

[Hanahope]

I have to admit, I will always find it awkward to see a passionate Democrat dating/married to a passionate Republican.  Just seems very incredulous.  It is nice to see the writers do their best to show that Diane and Kurt do love each other, despite those significant philosophical differences.  I also don't think that many Dems object that much to people owning guns in general, using in hunting and the whole eat what you kill bit, its more the prevalent nature of the "gun culture" and use/carrying of said guns in places where its so not necessary (other than as protection against other people who shouldn't have guns in the same place).  So seeing Diane admit that she liked killing the deer and then having it for dinner, didn't seem like that much of a 'omg' revelation.  I was very disappointed that she didn't point out some better arguments for pro-choice, though.

 

It was funny, part of me while watching Diane network with the men kept waiting for someone to say to her, 'hey, we're on vacation, no talking business', but of course, men do the exact same thing all the time, so it really should be absolutely no different for Diane to do the same thing.  So it was great seeing her network during a sporting event/vacation, and certainly swallowing enough of her pride to do it while having to be around people that are philosophically quite different from her.

[webruce]

Diane Lockhart sure can model the camo hunter chic. I was surprised David Lee and Cary Agos had no qualms working to help her land the client. Even though David once asked Diane what she did to screw up the attempt on signing Gil Barridge. I thought maybe Georgette controlled him. Then thought when he got uncomfortable in the deer blind that maybe they had a difference of opinion on things. But I didn't see that Georgette was a call girl. I didn't until Diane and R.D.(Reese Dipple)did their "Point Counterpoint" on abortion, think he would be a future client. But I wondered why not try to land that lodge full of big spenders? I was surprised that the group was divided by gender lines. I did figure most of the ladies would not go and shoot. But the Good Old Boys Club hunters vs the "Blackstone Spa" day retreat really pointed to old and rich days. I thought Diane's"No Where Wyoming" location talk to David and Cary was cute. Kurt's cute idea to bring his other gun worked. Diane seemed eager to shoot the deer. A little nervous but eager.

Lemond Bishop was really taken a back when his support call to Alicia came through and she didn't recognize his voice. I wondered what would happen next when Bishops men pulled Geneva Pine's men out of the caddy SUV? Did they leave it sitting in the lane for the red light? I would not think that make her go easy on his men.

I liked them playing Halo. Finn being "Coolbeans". It was interesting that Alicia found out he was dating someone. Marrisa teaching Alicia to play was interesting.

Alicia said she wrote her acceptance speech then said she didn't her concession, then later tells Finn she had months ago. Alicia also savored that donut.

It didn't seem like Peter tried to sabotage Alicia's SA race. Even though Johnny Elfman and Josh Mariner think so. But it seemed she appreciated what he did with the traffic jam. After her fling with Johnny Elfman and he leaving town, maybe she and Peter will be back together. Also Finn is dating, another check off her list. It was an odd way for him to tell her too. But also Alicia wasn't sure she wanted to win?

Zack, Grace, Owen, Veronica and even Jackie weren't at the winning party after?

[John Potts]

Hey, remember when this series was about being a lawyer? I'm kind of fuzzy on when that was, but at least we should be getting back to that next week (albeit from the other side).

 

I really don't buy that political operatives wouldn't be aware (at least in general terms) with the characters in The West Wing - not because it is a classic of TV production, but because in general, political operatives are fans of anything that portrays them in a heroic light. Actually, any show portraying them at all probably has them watching - Mrs Thatcher was a big fan of Yes Minister and I wouldn't mind betting plenty of politicos are fans of House of Cards (either the US or UK version), though they're hardly heroic in that!

 

From the Recap: Abortions For Some, Miniature American Flags Poked Into Venison For Others!

 

It's sad when The Simpsons portray politics more believably than The Good Wife!

 

Would a drug kingpin really expect his "tame SA" to recognise him over the phone? It's not like they've spoken much. Of course, Alicia hardly speaks to anyone these days!

 

merylinkid So Alicia thinks Prady is the better guy but still continues the run. And then has the balls to ask the guy to be HER deputy...As long as she as the SA's wife and all the perks that went with that (which only exist in TGWLand btw), she didn't care what else happened.

 

OK, that's a little unfair. Alicia may be self righteous, but I think she's still fundamentally decent. Besides, the voters (foolishly!) chose her over Prady, it's not like she can just ignore that. Appointing a decent chap - particularly an opponent - as her deputy means the voters (potentially) get the best of both candidates.

 

photo fox He [Oliver Platt] and CB had a really fun chemistry, and I loved that they showed that people can have opposing political viewpoints and still like and respect each other.

Loved the "Well, probably calling his hooker his wife was probably a bad idea!" line, too. Bu even though I'm anti-abortion, I thought Diane's pro-Choice arguments were feeble. Argue it the issue on your principles, because saying "the Supreme Court says it's legal" is entirely contingent on the Supreme Court continuing to hold that position. I strongly doubt that if they overturned Roe v Wade, she'd pipe up with "Oh well, I guess I was wrong in my pro-Choice views!"

[TVSallyS]

So Alica goes after Peter last week, attacks him. Then the campaign manager actually says this week "why is he doing this?" when Peter tries to screw them over? LOL What idiots, I wonder what caused Peter to lash back, hmmm. The fact they have to ask and say that out loud?

The difference was that separating herself from Peter's supposedly racist office was a necessary move for her to clarify her own supposed positions on the race issue, as a state's attorney candidate. She wasn't trying to take Peter down for the vindictive fun of it, she was following a campaign manager's logical advice about a necessary position for her to take in order to advance her own campaign and clarify her position on things, should she become State's Attorney. A very interesting theme of this whole campaign has been watching two spouses try to do what they would otherwise view as as wise to do for their own campaign, given a spouse is involved. Hurting Peter was unfortunate, but it was clear it was the sensible advice of a campaign manager. Peter's actions, however, were inexplicable in the sense that they seemed solely vindictive. It was unclear what it possibly gained him politically to sabotage her race for the fun of it. In fact, while Alicia was acting on the advice of her manager, Peter's own chief of staff was UPSET he did it, not for Alicia's sake, but for Peter's own sake. Causing the person he endorsed to lose in this manner was so potentially embarrassing for him politically, he had to scramble around to fix it and to undo the damage he had done to HIMSELF. That's why everyone was sensibly confused. His actions made no sense other than "I want to be mean to Alicia because I am mad at her, and I will even hurt myself politically to do it, because I am two years old". That's not what Alicia was doing.