Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[scenicbyway]

I wish at least someone, whether Emma or Charming, knew about his naval past. Sometimes I think the pirate stuff is just for show. He's a noble knight-type man inside, but he likes to hide it under his wit and captain act. That's fine, I just wish Emma knew more about him. Right now, and she even said it in 3B, she really doesn't care about his past. But, I'm willing to bet there's parallels between hers and his.

I thought that Charming did know about some of his naval past.  He knows about Liam and the circumstances of his death.  Emma knows as well because David told her.  I don't think Charming's "Intention" talk was meant to be taken badly, or that he really disapproved of Killian.  I think it was his lame attempt at parenting and Hook saw right through that.

 

I like that Emma takes him as he is.  The past doesn't matter, she's living in the moment with him.  Charming likes him, Snow is wary, and Henry thinks he's cool, it's probably the closest thing he's had to being apart of a family in a long time.

Agreed, KingOfHearts. Maybe we'll get lucky and he and Emma can have a date where they just talk about their pasts - accompanied with actual on-screen flashbacks. Emma can open up about her foster care years and her bail bonds stuff, and Hook can talk about his dad abandoning him and his Navy days.

Wouldn't that be a terribly depressing date though? 

 

Hook:  My parents abandoned me.

 

Emma:  Mine too.

 

Hook:  My brother died because of Peter Pan

 

Emma:  My ex boyfriend because of Peter Pan

 

Hook:  Should we order dessert?

 

Emma:  Let's just go home and cry.

 

I'd like to see them talk about these issues but maybe more gradually as it fits in to various episodes.  I just think it makes the idea of a date talking about this stuff, depressing.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I'd like to see them talk about these issues but maybe more gradually as it fits in to various episodes.  I just think it makes the idea of a date talking about this stuff, depressing.

 

It's like the number one thing you should not do, at least not in depth, in the early part of dating.  Gradually in various episodes would be much better, but we know how this show rolls.

[Curio]

Maybe we'll get lucky and he and Emma can have a date where they just talk about their pasts - accompanied with actual on-screen flashbacks. Emma can open up about her foster care years and her bail bonds stuff, and Hook can talk about his dad abandoning him and his Navy days.

Wouldn't that be a terribly depressing date though? ... I'd like to see them talk about these issues but maybe more gradually as it fits in to various episodes. I just think it makes the idea of a date talking about this stuff, depressing.

Ha! Sorry, that was probably some poor word choice on my part. I didn't necessarily mean a having a candlelit dinner situation and then oh-by-the-way-we're-both-pretty-screwed-up-because-of-our-pasts-lets-talk-about-all-of-our-issues-until-the-dessert-comes-out. I was thinking more along the lines of Killian's definition of a "date," which is pretty much any moment he gets to spend with Emma. But yes, ideally, it wouldn't be a huge history dump in one episode and would need to be a bit more gradual than that. I could see them having a late night chat on the couch (after watching Netflix, of course) and casually reminiscing about things - perhaps the movie they just watched reminded Hook about how he had to scrub the decks of the Jewel of the Realm or reminded Emma of her weirdest bail bonds case and they just chat until one of them falls asleep. Something like that could naturally segue in the related flashback.

 

It's like the number one thing you should not do, at least not in depth, in the early part of dating.  Gradually in various episodes would be much better, but we know how this show rolls.

For most normal couples, yes. That would be pretty awkward. But with Hook/Emma, they already know each other very well and have been through a lot together. Just because they're finally throwing on the labels "girlfriend and boyfriend" doesn't mean they now have to wait the Cosmo-recommended 3-month waiting period before they should open up to the other person. (And on this show, 3 months could mean 3 seasons from now.)

 

Maybe this belongs in the Relationship thread instead...

Edited October 11, 2014 by Curio

[InsertWordHere]

I like that they had Hook explicitly state his distrust of magic in 4.03. I've always like the fact that he's clearly been harmed by magic in the past, but it has never stopped him from encouraging Emma to use it to empower herself.

[Shanna Marie]

There have been a couple of discussions elsewhere that veered in a Hookish direction, so I thought I'd migrate them here. First, quoting my own post in the timeline thread:

I figure the present-day age of the character is likely in line with the actor's age, or else they would have cast a different actor. So if Hook is in the 33-35 range now (minus Neverland and curses), that puts him at 32-34 before the missing year, 28-31 while in Neverland, 20-23 or so when he met Milah, 18-20 or so for "Good Form."

Thinking about this, it's occurred to me that when Killian took up with Milah, he was very likely younger than Neal was when he took up with teenaged Emma. In fact, Killian at that time would have been closer to Emma's age when she was with Neal than he would have been to Neal's age when he was with Emma. And since Milah had a 4-6 year old son and didn't appear to have been a teen mother, she would have had a similar age gap with Killian as Neal had with Emma. They do love their parallels, don't they? But the situations were rather different because Killian would have been considered of legal age of consent in most places, and instead of being a vulnerable runaway teen, he'd already served in the military, fought in a war and was running a pirate ship.

 

Hmm, does him stealing the Jewel of the Realm from the navy parallel Emma stealing the yellow Bug? They both stole their iconic vessels.

 

Then that age discussion veered into a Jane Austen fest, which led to:

The writers probably patterned Killian and Liam's kingdom on late 18th century/early 19th century England, but the navy wouldn't have to have the same rules and regulations for advancement. Liam and Killian seemed well educated, and from the fact that they had a magical Pegasus sail, and were sent on a secret mission, were possibly in the King's favor. The family might have had good connections with the royals, despite the fact that their father seems to have been a bit of a loser. Maybe, on their mother's side? An uncle or a benefactor, perhaps?

This is where the worldbuilding fails. They haven't really established a "professional" class of people who might have money, connections and education without being nobility or royalty. So far, it seems like everyone in that world is either nobility/royalty or peasants/blue collar laborers (like the dwarfs). We haven't seen people like doctors, lawyers or professors, haven't seen where the military is drawn from. We don't know where the Black Knights are recruited from, and although there was a war fought, we haven't seen how those ranks are filled. There was conscription during Rumple's day for cannon fodder foot soldiers, but were the officers just drawn from nobility? Did they have any professional career soldiers? The closest thing we've seen to a "middle class" that has some money and employees (instead of working for someone else) without being nobility has been criminal, like with warlord Bo Peep or with pirates like Hook and Blackbeard.

 

That's where we get a disconnect in Killian's backstory. He supposedly was abandoned as a child by a fugitive father (did he say definitively that he never saw his father again, or is there room for his father to have found him again?), and he mentioned childhood wounds to Emma in the latest episode in a way that indicated he kind of understood her being bounced from home to home. Yet he and his brother were officers in the navy, seemingly well-educated, and with good connections. In the navy this seemed to have been modeled on, that would have been unlikely without them coming from at least the gentry unless they had a very well-connected wealthy patron. Since we haven't seen any indication of a middle class, it seems very unlikely that they would have risen from the peasantry into those positions. There was an exchange on the beanstalk in which Emma scoffed about Hook being a gentleman, to which he replied, sounding rather affronted, "I am a gentleman." She clearly meant it in the sense of having good manners, but did he mean it in the sense of having good manners and letting ladies go first or was he being literal about his social class? If so, how did he get from abandoned kid with a fugitive father to gentleman? Perhaps he lucked out and was eventually adopted by a ranking family.

[Curio]

If so, how did he get from abandoned kid with a fugitive father to gentleman? Perhaps he lucked out and was eventually adopted by a ranking family.

 

I forget where I first heard the theory (You know, it might have actually been from you, Shanna Marie!), but I like the idea of a more upper-class Liam being Killian's adoptive brother. Do we know for certain in-show what Liam's last name is? If they never said Jones on-screen, that could give the writers a lot of leeway. (I've also been curious about the casting decision for Liam. We know how great the casting department is at finding look-alikes, so I've always thought there was a reason they didn't find someone who resembles Colin at all.)

 

Based on the little clues Hook has noted about his past, it would make sense if his father abandoned him as a young child right before they were supposed to go on their worldly adventure, leaving only-child Killian orphaned on the streets to fend for himself. This is when Killian might have met young Navy officer Liam, who could have taken in Killian to save him from being sent to the orphanage. I think the casting call for Liam described him as an orphan too, so maybe he didn't want to see the same fate befall Killian. This could also explain the two drastic sides to Hook's personality: the cheeky drunkard vs. the well-spoken gentleman. Hook could have picked up drinking, stealing, and womanizing by watching his father's antics growing up (and would also explain why he was so quick to change his personality back to what he once grew up with once Liam died), but adopted the "good form" mentality from Liam.

 

I sometimes feel like we put way more thought into the backstories and world-building than the writers do...

[Mari]

That's where we get a disconnect in Killian's backstory. He supposedly was abandoned as a child by a fugitive father (did he say definitively that he never saw his father again, or is there room for his father to have found him again?), and he mentioned childhood wounds to Emma in the latest episode in a way that indicated he kind of understood her being bounced from home to home. Yet he and his brother were officers in the navy, seemingly well-educated, and with good connections. In the navy this seemed to have been modeled on, that would have been unlikely without them coming from at least the gentry unless they had a very well-connected wealthy patron. Since we haven't seen any indication of a middle class, it seems very unlikely that they would have risen from the peasantry into those positions. There was an exchange on the beanstalk in which Emma scoffed about Hook being a gentleman, to which he replied, sounding rather affronted, "I am a gentleman." She clearly meant it in the sense of having good manners, but did he mean it in the sense of having good manners and letting ladies go first or was he being literal about his social class? If so, how did he get from abandoned kid with a fugitive father to gentleman? Perhaps he lucked out and was eventually adopted by a ranking family.

Hook said that he and his father had boarded a ship, intending to travel the realms, and that his father left in the night--turned out his father was a fugitive.  I do not recall if the father's social/financial background has ever been mentioned on the show, and have they ever mentioned Hook's mother?   

 

Are we sure he'd have to have been taken in by a ranking family?  Because if his mother was from one, her family might've been willing to buy Hook and his brother  commissions.  Also, just being a fugitive doesn't preclude being of rank--if Hook's father had come from a family with rank, he wouldn't be the first one who fled in the night for some indiscretion or another.  Hook and Liam might've been bounced from relative to relative as the poor relations, given enough education and set up in life so that the wealthier ones were able to save face, but still not children loved or wanted.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Mari

[Shanna Marie]

I forget where I first heard the theory (You know, it might have actually been from you, Shanna Marie!), but I like the idea of a more upper-class Liam being Killian's adoptive brother. Do we know for certain in-show what Liam's last name is?

Yeah, the adoption is my current crack theory. I don't know that Liam's last name makes any difference because if Killian was adopted, he would have the same last name. We have no indication what Killian's name at birth was, so it could have been different. When Hook planted the insignia/name patch that said "Jones" for David to find, David asked if it was someone he knew, and Hook said it was his brother's, but he was setting David up for the story of the sextant that might be on top of the cliff if the patch had washed its way down, so we don't know what aspects of that were true and if the patch was his or really was his brother's (though would he have been carrying around his own patch? That seems like something he was carrying out of sentiment because it belonged to his brother.). I have a vague memory of someone calling Liam "Captain Jones," but that may or may not be all in my head.

 

All we really have of his pre "Good Form" backstory are that his father was a fugitive who abandoned him when he was a kid because the authorities were closing in. We know he had an older brother and we know he was in the navy. He hinted at "childhood wounds" to Emma. When he was begging Pan to help him with Liam, he said Liam was all he had. He claimed to be a gentleman, but we don't know if that referred to manners or status. He has a huge vocabulary and claims to be good at research, which might indicate education. Otherwise, he's a blank slate, and there's a huge gap between what you'd imagine from the story he told Bae and what we see at the earliest point in his timeline that we've seen so far.

 

I have a huge headcanon/mental fanfic going on that is likely to be ripped into shreds, but it amuses me at the moment.

[YaddaYadda]

Hook is pretty much a clean slate.  All we know what that he was going to travel the world with his father and that said father left in the dead of the night because he was a fugitive.  We know absolutely nothing about his mother.   I think he came from a family with enough means.  If you're planning such a long trip with a child (or I think we're assuming he was a young child), then you need the means to be able to do that.  The father and the mother could have had a falling out and the father decided to take off with his son because he didn't want to be separated from him but then was forced to and he was fed a story about how his father was some coward who just abandoned him and that's all he knows.  I don't think Hook's backstory is the one where he's a boy in the streets and fighting to survive until Liam finds him.

 

I've sort of been hoping that the manor where creep and creepier had their honeymoon belongs to Hook's family somehow and the reason it didn't come in the first curse was because it was protected inside Coradome. I know, it's such a stretch the elastic broke.

[Curio]

Yeah, the adoption is my current crack theory. I don't know that Liam's last name makes any difference because if Killian was adopted, he would have the same last name. We have no indication what Killian's name at birth was, so it could have been different.

 

I guess last name doesn't matter too much. But in this crack theory, if Killian was adopted by Liam's family, I'd prefer for Killian and his father to have the Jones last name, just because we all know they're going to introduce Davy Jones as a future big baddie on the show.

 

I think he came from a family with enough means. If you're planning such a long trip with a child (or I think we're assuming he was a young child), then you need the means to be able to do that.

 

I don't know if Hook's father had to be wealthy to "plan" a big trip. It could have been the case where some bad guys were closing in on Davy (I'm convinced this is his name) and he was at the end of his rope about to be captured/killed soon, so in a desperate attempt to flee the town, he comes up with this world traveling story. He tells Killian and Liam to pack their things quick because they're finally going on that world trip they've been dreaming about. Cue the next morning when the father is mysteriously gone and the boys don't know what happened, so they think he abandoned them.

 

All I know is that I'll probably be massively disappointed by whatever backstory the real show settles on since I've come up with so many different theories at this point.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Oh, Curio...I'm pretty sure they didn't give him the last name Jones for nothing.  I'm sort of waiting for Emma or anyone who has seen POTC to joke about that.  So who's your father?  Davy Jones?  Does that mean Calypso is your mother?  She was his one true love after all!  And since the Jolly Roger is real, does that mean the Flying Dutchman...

 

I think the backstory is going to be a mix of basically everything

and we're supposed to find out about his father in the second half of the season

[angelwoody]

Hook said that he and his father had boarded a ship, intending to travel the realms, and that his father left in the night--turned out his father was a fugitive.  I do not recall if the father's social/financial background has ever been mentioned on the show, and have they ever mentioned Hook's mother?   

 

Are we sure he'd have to have been taken in by a ranking family?  Because if his mother was from one, her family might've been willing to buy Hook and his brother  commissions.  Also, just being a fugitive doesn't preclude being of rank--if Hook's father had come from a family with rank, he wouldn't be the first one who fled in the night for some indiscretion or another.  Hook and Liam might've been bounced from relative to relative as the poor relations, given enough education and set up in life so that the wealthier ones were able to save face, but still not children loved or wanted.

So, Hook and Liam could been in a Jane Eyre/ Fanny Price type of situation... (in keeping with our classic literature tangent from earlier)

[Mari]

So, Hook and Liam could been in a Jane Eyre/ Fanny Price type of situation... (in keeping with our classic literature tangent from earlier)

On the little we've been given so far, I don't see why not.   I fully expect to be completely jossed the next time the writers get a fantastic idea, but it would fit fairly well with the idea that Liam and Killian were well educated, had commissions, and yet their father abandoned Killian, at least.

 

If they had wealthy relatives, yet were not wealthy themselves, the wealthy relatives could have seen it as their duty--or been afraid of public opinion if they ignored the children--to start them off in life.  Then, they'd keep the children until they had a good chance or excuse to pawn them off on the next set of relatives.

 

(And if we're talking classic literature, I've always been more of a A Room with a View or Maurice fan, personally, as well as I enjoyed Austen and Bronte.)

[daxx]

There was reference made to the "Jones brothers" in Good Form. My thought is that Liam and Killian are half brothers and when their deadbeat father abandoned both families, Liam discovered the relationship or when Killian's mother passed had his more wealthy/ privileged family take care of Killian until he was old enough to buy a commission for him.

[Leia1979]

I've always assumed Killian's mother died before his father ran off. It's very traditionally Disney (the protagonist with no mother, I mean).

Edited November 6, 2014 by Leia1979

[Rumsy4]

Am I the only one who still thinks Liam and Killian are full-blood siblings? The Killian/Liam backstory was probably charted out when planning for S3, and it doesn't have to retcon what Hook told Bae about his father. I think their mom died when Killian was very little, and he stayed with his father when Liam was off to the navy, probably when he was 13 or 14, if we match this up with Georgian/Regency England. We don't know what crime Killian's father was wanted for. It could have been a petty one, as even small crimes would have been punished severely those days. It's possible that Killian's dad planned to escape along with his son, but felt that he would be safer alone. Who knows if Killian was left in the care of a relative, or if he was living off the streets when Liam found him later. Incidentally, have you seen codependentrelationship's baby!Killy Lieutenant Duckling drawings? They are to die for! 

[HoodlumSheep]

Rumsy4, I too believe Killy and Liam are fully related, and will do so until it is stated otherwise. Their mother may have died before Killy would even remember her. I've always thought of them as two who managed to climb the ranks through sheer determination and hard work. If Liam was working on a boat, maybe he somehow saved the captain's life, and got recommendations and a promotion from there?

My headcanon also includes that Liam pretty much raised him and taught him almost everything he knew, so when he died Killy lost a brother, a best friend, mentor, and a father-figure all at once.

As for looks, I think they look decently alike. I don't think I look too much like my eldest brother, so I find it acceptable that they they have their differences. Maybe one took after his father and one took after his mother in the looks department.

For some reason I really want Killy to resemble his mother. Maybe that's where he got all his prettiness from.

[Souris]

I think Killian and Liam are full brothers, until proven otherwise. In my head canon, which I've shared before, Killian and Liam's mother died when Killian was very young. Liam is older enough that he was in the EF equivalent of the Naval Academy when their father abandoned Killian. Their father being a fugitive doesn't preclude them being minor nobility or at least something other than peasants, since we have no clue what he was a fugitive from. Heck, maybe he was the lost heir to some kingdom and was being hunted down by the evil usurpers to avoid him taking back his kingdom. Maybe he stole something from a rich magician to afford Liam's school fees. Maybe he ran off with a princess and her family was after him once they found out she died. Maybe he was Davy Jones trying to avoid his servitude to the sea. Or maybe he was a total thieving scumbucket. It's so vague, there are tons of possibilities.

 

IMO either Killian had to work off his passage to where Liam was by serving as a cabin boy, or he got dumped at the nearest port and had to survive on the streets until he and Liam were reunited. Or maybe some kindly widow took him in until then. I think Liam had impressed a bigwig patron and was able to get Kilian in a good school until he joined him at sea. Again, tons of possibilities! I just want to knowwwwww.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Souris

[Curio]

Am I the only one who still thinks Liam and Killian are full-blood siblings?

No, I can see it both ways. The one thing I do like about Killian and Liam being full-blood related is that this show could use more characters who have good relationships with their siblings. We now have Anna and Elsa - that's great, but pretty much the entire core cast are only-children. (That they knew of...not knowing about a twin or a half-sister don't count.) Emma and Neal also don't count. (God, that's weird to type.)

[Rumsy4]

 

Emma and Neal also don't count. (God, that's weird to type.)

 

Everytime someone calls Baby Snoflake as Neal in the show, I cringe internally. It's got an unintentional creepy vibe to it. I can't help it! 

[daxx]

I could go either way with the brothers. I see enough difference in their looks they could be half or full siblings. We know so little about Hooks past that they could be lower ranked noblemen.

They certainly have the manners and speech patterns of the well educated. Which is why Killian's "meself" the other day totally threw me and took me completely out of the scene evey time I have seen it. It actually really bothers me. I don't mind the "aye" it fits his role as pirate.

The fact that Killian knows how to dance so well and fit in perfectly at a ball would indicate he has attended them in the past. Most likely he would have attended in his youth. I just don't see a pirate captain being invited to all that many royal balls.

[Souris]

I thought I was the only one who hated that "meself"! It was jarringly out of verbal character to me -- totally not Killian-speak.

[Curio]

The fact that Killian knows how to dance so well and fit in perfectly at a ball would indicate he has attended them in the past. Most likely he would have attended in his youth. I just don't see a pirate captain being invited to all that many royal balls.

 

I'm pretty sure the military has lots of get togethers and fancy events. I have a friend who dated an ROTC guy and they had a military ball they attended every year. Or the Once-Universe Navy could have been invited to the royal balls as a means of also being the protection/police/security.

 

I thought I was the only one who hated that "meself"! It was jarringly out of verbal character to me -- totally not Killian-speak.

 

I'll let it slide. Just because you're educated doesn't mean you don't sometimes slip into some slang once in a while. I'd consider meself myself fairly educated, but I'm not afraid to say "as per the uge" or "oh em gee" in a sentence.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

I cringed at the "meself". haha I think Colin misspoke or something. 

[Shanna Marie]

I took the "meself" as being said ironically, the way I might say something like "ain't that a shame" or "that just ain't right," exaggerating my Texas drawl, even though I'm a writer and editor and definitely know it's incorrect. I think Hook often plays up to the pirate stereotype they expect of him because it's easier than trying to make them see beyond it. And he's been playing the pirate long enough that some of that stuff has become a habit.

 

As for the backstory, I'm inclined to think that there was at least one phase of him being more or less on his own or being bounced around from foster home to foster home because they like the parallels between him and Emma and he pretty much pegged her as a kindred spirit from the moment they met. He'd figured out her backstory before he actually learned anything about her. He claimed to recognize it from being around the Lost Boys, but I get the sense that it had more to do with personal experience.

 

In my current mental fanfic headcanon adoption theory, his father had already paid the passage and even left him with some money (because I hate to think he was such a jerk that he'd totally leave a kid without resources), so he got through the trip okay, then he managed to sneak off the ship by blending in with a family traveling with a lot of kids and avoided the authorities looking for his father. He tried to fend for himself for a while until he ran out of money, then got caught trying to steal from a market stall and landed in some kind of orphanage/school. From there, he got taken in by a family, but it turned out that they just wanted slave labor, so he ran away and was fending for himself again. One day, he was being ganged up on by bigger kids but still standing his ground when Liam came along and helped fend off the bullies, but little Killian got cut (how he got that scar on his face). Liam took him home because he needed a doctor, and then when his parents learned about him, they took him in and adopted him. The father was an admiral in the navy and was gone a lot, and with Liam being so much older, he really took to the big brother role. Killian worshiped the ground he walked on because he'd literally saved his life, and he wanted to grow up and be just like him, so he followed his brother into the navy, where their father's position helped pave the way for the boys. Then not long before "Good Form," their mother died after a long illness, and their father was killed in battle (possibly a death somewhat arranged by the king, since the admiral had figured out that the king was rather twisted and was opposing him -- his wife's death made him feel like he had nothing left to lose, and that's when he stood up). And that's why Killian was so unhinged at Liam's death, because he'd lost absolutely everything in such a short span of time. Then he also reacts very badly to Milah's death because he's starting to feel like he's on a roller coaster -- every time he thinks things are going to be okay and that he's found a good place where he's loved, it all gets ripped away from him, and just when he's starting to recover and find hope again, he gets it torn away again.

 

There's also a more elaborate version inspired by that prince rumor that turned out to be just about "Prince Charles" but that sparked my imagination, in which the "father" he remembers was actually a palace guard a king entrusted his newborn son to when the enemy was at the gates, and all that travel was to avoid the enemies looking for the last heir. The guard ended up ditching the child as a last-gasp effort to save him, because he'd been identified but they might not recognize a child last seen as a newborn. That gives even more of a parallel to Emma, in being "abandoned" as a desperate effort of hope.

 

And if they don't go anywhere near this story, I like it enough that I may steal it, change the setting and character names and write it as my own.

[Curio]

And if they don't go anywhere near this story, I like it enough that I may steal it, change the setting and character names and write it as my own.

 

Hey, that method made millions for Cassandra Clare and E. L. James!

 

And not going to lie, I'd totally read that...

[scenicbyway]

I'm fairly certain the Jones brothers are full brothers. I still say Blackbeard is their dad. CM looks to much like them to waste that casting.

[retrograde]

I also took "meself" as joking, the way I sometimes play up my Australian-ness with certain slang words or pronunciation. That may have been the actor making the best of some shitty writing, of course, but that is how I thought he played it. 

 

I do hope they get to Hook's backstory sooner rather than later, because it's a little odd that Emma doesn't seem to have asked him anything about it, and she isn't going to until it becomes directly related to that week's episode, because this show is no Good Wife. I don't think it's the writers' intentions, but having her not display any curiosity about his background while talking endlessly about her own isn't a great look.

[YaddaYadda]

I didn't think much of the meself personally because of the context of the scene.  I thought he was being self-deprecating at the end there.  Hook being abandoned by his father is very much in line with everything we've seen from the character especially when it comes to other kids who don't have what he didn't seem to have, like Baelfire and Henry.  It's like he sort of goes out of his way to try and make up for what they didn't have.  It's almost instinctual in a sense.

[HoodlumSheep]

I also took "meself" as joking, the way I sometimes play up my Australian-ness with certain slang words or pronunciation. That may have been the actor making the best of some shitty writing, of course, but that is how I thought he played it.

I too thought he was just messing around with "meself." With how he said it, I thought it was quite clear that he was joking, 'cause Elsa pointed out the pirate thing didn't she? And what words do pirates typically use? "meself" or "ahoy" or "AARR." Etc.

I kinda thought he was trying to to sort of poke fun at the whole "pirate" stereotype.

Maybe I'll have to rewatch the scene?

Also, he used "ahoy" the other day, and you could totally tell he was just doing it for fun.

Honestly, I am counting down the days until he goes, "AARR" or "AARRGGHH" just for the heck of it to screw with people or try to point out how ridiculous the pirate stereotype can be.

[Faemonic]

What I've been thinking of, is Killian's father was some con artist who'd impersonated a member of high society, for which Killian's mother, being a capital-l Lady, took to task with a private team of skilled bounty hunters. (She's a woman on Once Upon A Time, of course she'd kick butt and take names.) What was "Lord Jones"'s true identity? If it's a popular figure, then he would have a sympathetic backstory that is taking Killian with him because he truly loved his son and was just misunderstood by an abusive shrew who disowned her bastard sons Killian and Liam and stuck them with the Jones moniker until they regained their honor enough to become true nobility. They might have retained some high society advantages, though, such as whatever is a classical education in the Enchanted Forest, connections, funding for navy school because that would give them the skills to hunt down Lord Jones...

Or it could be that the beloved mother Lady Jones (maiden name) raised two boys single-handedly, working horrible jobs (somewhere between "governess" and "factory-worker"; but not "prostitute" unless you really want to get tragic) after being shunned from high society after the scandal of wedding a fugitive, and died of consumption when Liam and Killian graduated from navy school.

Or it could be that Liam and Killian really were just cabin boys--whether full-blooded brothers, or half-brothers, or orphans who bonded deeply enough to pose as brothers for the census that came with a-recruitin' and a-trainin' boys for war and if those recruits already knew how to step in time with a crew, then, all aboard! And the Jones brothers picked up their gentlemanly ways (waltzing, reading) from their fellow brothers-in-arms who were upperclass and volunteered or were drafted. Or maybe courtly conduct was part of navy training in case of ambassadorial escort or something.

It could even probably turn to something like... Killian thought that he and Liam were just two orphans who bonded deeply enough to consider each other brothers, but neither of them knew that they were fully or partially related. It shouldn't particularly matter emotionally, but twists like that are supposed to be entertaining.

There's also a more elaborate version inspired by that prince rumor that turned out to be just about "Prince Charles" but that sparked my imagination, in which the "father" he remembers was actually a palace guard a king entrusted his newborn son to when the enemy was at the gates, and all that travel was to avoid the enemies looking for the last heir. The guard ended up ditching the child as a last-gasp effort to save him, because he'd been identified but they might not recognize a child last seen as a newborn. That gives even more of a parallel to Emma, in being "abandoned" as a desperate effort of hope.

And if they don't go anywhere near this story, I like it enough that I may steal it, change the setting and character names and write it as my own.

I love that one. And, hey, it is National Novel Writing Month right now...

Edited November 6, 2014 by Faemonic

[Shanna Marie]

Hey, that method made millions for Cassandra Clare and E. L. James!

I don't think this would be quite in the same league, as it never has existed as an actual fanfic outside my head and it's not just an AU retelling of the same story. It's more playing around with what-ifs about something in the past. It's probably closer to a Dickens homage with magic and pirates than OUAT fanfic. I actually have a "lost prince handed over to someone while the enemy's at the gate who doesn't know he's a prince" story brewing, but it doesn't veer in the direction of adoption by an admiral, joining the navy and becoming a pirate, and that may be why I leapt to that idea at the prince spoiler. But that book probably won't be written for at least a year. I have at least three other things to write first. By the time I get around to it, I hope we've learned some of the actual backstory.

 

I do hope they get to Hook's backstory sooner rather than later, because it's a little odd that Emma doesn't seem to have asked him anything about it, and she isn't going to until it becomes directly related to that week's episode, because this show is no Good Wife. I don't think it's the writers' intentions, but having her not display any curiosity about his background while talking endlessly about her own isn't a great look.

While I do want to get around to his backstory, I don't have a huge problem with the way things are going because the stuff about her past that's come up has been relevant to the plot. It's not like she's going around all "let me tell you alllll about me" or even that he's constantly inquiring about her history. I don't think she'd be talking about her past at all if she hadn't discovered the memory gap or thought about Lily. It would be weird if she started asking him random questions about his past out of the blue. It would need to come up organically as part of a conversation when there wasn't some other immediate crisis to distract her or when it was relevant to the crisis.

[Dianthus]

Whatever Killian backstory we get, I'm currently imagining a wee lad, with tousled dark hair and big blue eyes, standing on deck in his nightshirt, his little hands curled into fists at his sides, trying so hard to be brave and not cry while listening to the First Mate explain, gently but firmly, that no, they can't return to port because they have a schedule to keep. Whaaaaa!

[HoodlumSheep]

Whatever Killian backstory we get, I'm currently imagining a wee lad, with tousled dark hair and big blue eyes, standing on deck in his nightshirt, his little hands curled into fists at his sides, trying so hard to be brave and not cry while listening to the First Mate explain, gently but firmly, that no, they can't return to port because they have a schedule to keep. Whaaaaa!

Now all I can think of is Treasure planet when Jim wakes up and finds out his father has left, and he sprints down to the docks only to just miss him. Except With Killy but only younger, like 7-8ish?

[Shanna Marie]

Whatever Killian backstory we get, I'm currently imagining a wee lad, with tousled dark hair and big blue eyes

I wonder, would he have had dark hair as a kid? His beard comes in reddish, and in the rare occasions when they're shooting outdoors in bright sunlight, he gets auburn highlights (look at the drowning/CPR scene from "Kansas," which had me wondering if Colin's hair was dyed to be dark, his beard looked so red), so he could have been someone who was redheaded as a kid and his hair darkened to a very dark auburn that looks almost black unless the light hits it right. He certainly seems closer to being someone you could imagine having had reddish/reddish-brown hair as a small child than, say, August did (growing up from being the redheaded Pinocchio).

[Curio]

I think the contrasting red beard/dark hair is just an Irish/Scottish thing. My bf has a lot of red in his beard but has darker brown hair. My hair is also pretty dark brown, but the sun brings out the (Irish? I think I'm part Irish...) auburn highlights. Usually, when hair is as dark as Colin's, it's probably always been that dark.

 

I'd be really taken out of the scene (like with Pinocchio) if they chose a kid who didn't have black hair and bright blue eyes for young Killian. But I'm also that nit-picky viewer who hates it when two blue-eyed parents have a brown-eyed kid. 

[YaddaYadda]

The show's casting department has done especially well when casting parents/children, younger versions of the grown-ups.  I'm sure if they need a younger version of Killian, they'll do as well.  I mostly worry about the accent, because please let's have a child with a British accent.

[Faemonic]

 

The show's casting department has done especially well when casting parents/children, younger versions of the grown-ups.  I'm sure if they need a younger version of Killian, they'll do as well.  I mostly worry about the accent, because please let's have a child with a British accent.

 

I don't know who this kid is or if he can fake an accent (or even if he's still a kid), but I see a resemblance: http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/LeMarques/media/bbykilly_zps2a07f43e.jpg.html

I just took a screen capture from ComicBookGirl19's House Baratheon video (where she also borrows bandit Snow for another of Robert Baratheon's progeny.)

[YaddaYadda]

  

I don't know who this kid is or if he can fake an accent (or even if he's still a kid), but I see a resemblance: http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/LeMarques/media/bbykilly_zps2a07f43e.jpg.html

I just took a screen capture from ComicBookGirl19's House Baratheon video (where she also borrows bandit Snow for another of Robert Baratheon's progeny.)

 

It's Asa Butterfied and the pic is from when he was Mordred on Merlin.  The last thing I saw him in was Ender's Game.  Not sure how old he is now.

[Rumsy4]

Asa Butterfield was in the lovely little movie Hugo. He would have been perfect as little Killian, but the actor's 17 now. I'm not familiar with young British actors to predict who would make a good bby Killian, but yeah--the casting department has done a stellar job in casting younger versions of the actors. 

[pezgirl7]

I actually remember watching Hugo and thinking that he would make a great little Killian! Too bad he's 17. Kids grow up fast, huh? :)

[Shanna Marie]

Usually, when hair is as dark as Colin's, it's probably always been that dark.

Not necessarily. My brother's hair is about that dark, and he had white-blond hair as a child. However, I agree that although real people often look very different or have different coloring as children, when it comes to casting, it's important to make viewers identify the child character with the adult character, and so mini-mes who look as much as possible like the adult version are the best way to go. I know a kid who's very much the way I could imagine Baby Killian to be (though with the wrong accent). He's got the tousled dark hair and big blue eyes, fair skin and slight build. He's really smart and has a big vocabulary, and he seems quiet at first and is an intent listener, but once he warms up to you, you can tell he feels everything very deeply and has strong passions. I think he's also a bit of a swashbuckler at heart. I tend to picture this kid when I imagine Baby Killian. I think he's almost eight now, but I've known him since he was three, so I have a range of ages to picture.

 

On another note, I wonder what the real mirror would say to Hook. I'm not sure it would freak him out because it seems like he's pretty self-aware and would already have consciously thought it all.

[Souris]

 I tend to picture this kid when I imagine Baby Killian. I think he's almost eight now, but I've known him since he was three, so I have a range of ages to picture.

 

Can he act and do a British accent? ;)

[Faemonic]

I wonder what the real mirror would say to Hook. I'm not sure it would freak him out because it seems like he's pretty self-aware and would already have consciously thought it all.

Maybe not all of it. We've heard him talk about getting tired of vengeance, brood over Kid Bae, and confess his bad form to Nealfire. But other things, like...

- Pirates are riffraff, even with David's blessing and Emma's love, how can he truly expect to end up with a princess?

- The Dark One gets married and lives happily ever after while Milah's still dead. Even if Killian's moved on, isn't he still the tiniest bit tempted to have another go at shooting an unarmed woman in the back again to get even?

- Ganging up on somebody and kicking them over because they bumped into you on the street and didn't apologize, is not the good manners that you're defending.

- Starting a brawl in a restaurant is not the good manners that you're defending.

- You totally want to continue to defend good manners without actually displaying good manners.

- You're going to fail Henry one day just like you failed Nealfire. And Liam, somehow.

- Your alcoholism is going to ruin your life.

- Drunk women aren't actually consenting.

- If you were so drunk that you forgot what happened, you were not actually consenting.

- You've gone from Captain to henchman to second fiddle to everybody. As your dark mirror, allow me to rekindle your megalomania.

- And then rub in your face that you're a terrible leader because half your crew in Neverland died in the Echo Caves.

- Emma's going to find out your secret deal with the Dark One or else the evidence framing you, either way she'll fall out of love with you.

[Mari]

... Hook is firmly on the I-love-you-magic-and-all train.  It would be out of character for him not to be.  He's been nothing but an enthusiastic supporter of her and her magic from the beginning, and he doesn't scare easy. 

Moved from the spoilers thread--anything spoilery was cut.

 

I actually have a theory about this.  Hook loved his brother, and Liam died.  Hook's last romantic relationship was with Milah, who was killed in front of him.  He's internalized that love can be taken away from you, and that often you will not have the power to stop someone else taking the person you love away from you permanently. 

 

Emma's powerful.  Yes, she's smart, and an orphan, and lovely, and determined, and brave--and those are all things he would like as well, but when it comes right down to it, Emma's powerful.  Her heart can't be taken and crushed, because he saw a master try to do that and fail.  When things come at her, Emma's magic has reacted to protect her.

 

Hook can love Emma partly because he doesn't have to be quite so afraid she'll be killed and taken away from him;  her magic is one of the things that allows him to let go and be vulnerable.

[Joanh23]

Ok so I've just thought of something and I'm sure someone else as said this already, but it's just clicked with me that Emma can do magic in whatever world she's in because she was born with it.  So even though this world had no magic in it, we saw Emma use her magic when Henry was born and also when she arrived in Storybrooke.  Because Regina and Rumple weren't born with magic they need the magic to be in the land so they can harness it, hence why they could not use magic until Rumple brought it back at the end of S1.  So I reckon because Ingrid was also born with magic, when she came to this world she'd still have been able to use her magic so maybe Emma saw her do something magical as a teenager and when Ingrid told Emma that she has magic as well Emma freaked out and so she ran away.  As Emma wouldn't believe her, Ingrid decided she needed to wipe her memories so Emma couldn't tell anyone else about her crazy foster mother who said she could do magic.

[InsertWordHere]

Hook has a red heart :)

 

Or he did, until Rumple took it!

[pezgirl7]

We seriously better get one heck of a scene where Emma puts his heart back in his chest.

Seriously. If Emma never even finds out about it being missing or Rumple sticks it back in without any fanfare, I will be so disappointed.

I do love that Hook still seems just as in love with Emma as before, and that Emma could tell something was wrong. I think he was staring at her so hard because he knows some sh*t is gonna go down soon and he might lose her. :(

[InsertWordHere]

I thought he was staring because he was trying to send her a message with his eyes, as I'm sure the heart control prevents him from speaking the truth. Maybe I was reading too much into the staring.

[YaddaYadda]

I think it's mainly that he knows he's screwed either way.  Rumple has his heart.  He gets his extra magical person in the hat and Hook dies because his heart is the final "ingredient".  He doesn't get Rumple what he wants and he's still screwed because Rumple still has his heart and he'll still do away with him.  He can't win this one basically.  He can't say anything about the hat or the dagger because he is under control, he can't say he doesn't have his heart...

 

The irony in all of this is that if Emma had been hatted, Hook would still have died like minutes after she was gone.

 

Rumple bringing up Milah and how long it took Hook to put her behind him was incredibly mean and crass but can't expect anything less from Rumple.