S05.E15: Try

[Boilergal]

I get the feeling that Rick is setting it up to be evicted -  so he can sneak back and take out Pete in the middle of the night.

 

PTSD Sasha gave me the Suicide by Walkers vibe -

[Rosiejuliemom]

Is the Reddit recap up yet? It should definitely be more entertaining than the actual episode.

 

I checked this morning and didn't see it. Maybe tomorrow?

 

Something will happen that will REQUIRE that he kill Pete. Then  they will live happily ever after for about 10 minutes. After which we will return to our regularly scheduled programming and Jessie will get killed or worse, kidnapped (so it will NEVER end) by the Unfair wolves, or eaten by Walkers (my personal choice). Then Rick will go crazy. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

 

If the writers are going to make this happen, I hope that next season shows that Rick and Jessie have absolutely nothing in common or flat out can't stand each other in a couple sense once the shine of the Rescue Romance has worn off.

[I-Kare]

I agree 100%.  As long as you aren't blonde or pretty it is the writer's fault.  If you are blonde and pretty well you are a horrible character and actress...lol

I've had various shades of black, brown, blonde and red hair over the years (I like to change things up). Little did i know my blonde years were my "basic", "bland", "boring" years! 

 

Maybe I'm old, but I always just assume it's the writers fault (plot wise) no matter what happens on a show. (this is when I shrug)

Edited March 24, 2015 by I-Kare

[Pete Martell]

I agree 100%.  As long as you aren't blonde or pretty it is the writer's fault.  If you are blonde and pretty well you are a horrible character and actress...lol

 

In some cases, yes, but many of us have criticized the writing, more than anything else, from the start, even as the general idea was that we were just being unfair because she's blonde or because Rick being rock-hard and horny should be more important to us, or we're all jealous, or we're bitter Richonne shippers, or we don't understand men, or what have you.

 

I don't think Alexandra is all that great in the role, but she's not the writer, so she doesn't get most of my criticism. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kikismom]

If the writers are going to make this happen, I hope that next season shows that Rick and Jessie have absolutely nothing in common or flat out can't stand each other in a couple sense once the shine of the Rescue Romance has worn off.

You don't have a preference, do you? :-D

[Bruinsfan]

She would not really harm a child for following her to get her to give him cookies. I think it's pretty clear even Sam didn't take the threat seriously. Because had that been me, I wouldn't walk on the same side of the street as Carol, and he's still bugging her for cookies. And a gun. 

She did what had to be done. Even softie Tyrese knew that.

It may very well be that life with Pete has taught Sam to recognize when an adult is likely to follow through with a threat of violence, and when it's just talk.

 

I'm not even sure someone like Shane could win a fight with Pete. I would like to see him attempt it though.

Yeah. I'd bet on Darryl, but only because I think he'd know a lot more about fighting dirty. And of course Carol, because she'd know not to get in an up-front fight while Pete's coordinated enough to throw punches (but look out once the drunken stupor hits - you can't beat up lit gasoline!).

[kikismom]

 the general idea was that we were just being unfair because she's blonde or because Rick being rock-hard and horny should be more important to us, or we're all jealous, or we're bitter Richonne shippers, or we don't understand men, or what have you.

It was probably all the "blonde bitch stab her in the face" and "we just got rid of one blonde bitch now we got another"  and "flat-ass ho blonde".

That's the kind of thing that makes a false impression.

[Pete Martell]

It was probably all the "blonde bitch stab her in the face" and "we just got rid of one blonde bitch now we got another"  and "flat-ass ho blonde".

That's the kind of thing that makes a false impression.

 

I didn't see most of that here. I was talking about comments here. 

 

Yes, there are ugly comments made, especially on Twitter, but I often feel like any criticism of this character is lumped together as unfair and based on jealousy or hate or her being blonde or not wanting Rick to get laid, etc.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kikismom]

Yeah. I'd bet on Darryl, but only because I think he'd know a lot more about fighting dirty.

Oh yeah, Daryl fighting Pete. That's hot!  Stop intervening and holding him back Rick!

 

Or Shane fighting Pete, or Daryl fighting Shane.

[Boofish]

99% of us would accept almost anything to stay safe and fed.  If reality is anything to go by.

I personally think that is a little high. Terminus mission statement "become a part of us or feed us" Judging by the number of people in boxcars and at the baseball troth plenty of people passed on that deal

 

Woodbury was tricky. Most of those people thought they were attacking people who had attacked them. They had no idea Merle had kidnapped people and what they were doing to them. Yes, there was WWE Walker Edition night but those people were already dead and while sick, I wouldn't leave a safe haven because of that alone. The Governor was very good a manipulating people who are already scared and vulnerable.

 

I would like to think that I would not agree to eat people, rape anyone, stand by and let someone be raped or not try and find a solution to spousal abuse because I had running water and electricity.  

[Haleth]

So Pete is beating his wife so bad but there are no bruises at all on her or the son, and she walks into Rick's house with him shirtless and cuts his hair?....lol. Sorry but that makes zero sense. She does not act scared or abused or look it in any way. 

I know!  When people started suggesting a couple weeks ago that Pete was abusing her I wondered what they all were seeing that I wasn't.  In addition Ron doesn't act like there is anything wrong either.  Would a teenager want his friends hanging around the house where his mom is getting beat up?  That's what makes this storyline so out of left field.  There was no build up of suspicion, just Carol's gut feeling.  

[Ronin Jackson]

Something seems a little off about the 'W' marks. The woman tied to the tree would seem to have been marked while alive then tied up to become zombie chow. The others looked like they had been dead for a while but the marking looked fresh... with blood still showing. It's probably just that they are not paying that much attention to detail with the zombie make up in terms of differentiating recently turned zombies from longer turned, more decayed looking zombies. But this would have been a good place to do that, as I assume they are being marked alive and left to turn... so they should look like recently turned zombies.

[Rosiejuliemom]

You don't have a preference, do you? :-D

 

I have no idea what you are implying!

[kikismom]

I didn't see most of that here. I was talking about comments here. 

I was also talking about comments I have seen here. I just want the story to play out.

I can hate on a character, but I would not hate on them for certain characteristics. I hope no one here will anymore. It is bad enough when the story is crappily written, the actors don't carry responsibilities for the writing. Or the direction of how they play that scene.

I know you have not done that,and I know that you are not okay with Jessie storyline...but it makes it hard for you too when people join the criticism of a character by doing stuff like that.

Apparently, the EW page ( I don't read it) some comment you reported a poster said Michonne was a ****, so you know that wasn't really about the head-knocking scene being right or wrong. That comment was about something else. Something in their own head.

I think we can make it clear here that we can: argue /debate/ hatewatch whatever but don't go evil or don't come on here.

[I-Kare]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about abuse here. Victims are sometimes outwardly happy acting people because they don't want people to know what they're hiding (just one reason, there are many more). I've found out about abuse years down the road and was shocked because the victim seemed "just like me."

 

Also, we've seen Jessie's arms and her face. That doesn't mean there are no bruises on her elsewhere. It also doesn't mean that there have never been bruises on her arms and face. It just means right now she could be in a cycle of abuse where there are none. We've only "known" her for a short period of time, right? 

Edited March 24, 2015 by I-Kare

[Pete Martell]

I know!  When people started suggesting a couple weeks ago that Pete was abusing her I wondered what they all were seeing that I wasn't.  In addition Ron doesn't act like there is anything wrong either.  Would a teenager want his friends hanging around the house where his mom is getting beat up?  That's what makes this storyline so out of left field.  There was no build up of suspicion, just Carol's gut feeling.  

 

I can't help wondering if someone on the show decided that Rick wouldn't find Jessie "hot" if she had visible bruises. 

 

I hope that is not the case.

I was also talking about comments I have seen here. I just want the story to play out.

I can hate on a character, but I would not hate on them for certain characteristics. I hope no one here will anymore. It is bad enough when the story is crappily written, the actors don't carry responsibilities for the writing. Or the direction of how they play that scene.

I know you have not done that,and I know that you are not okay with Jessie storyline...but it makes it hard for you too when people join the criticism of a character by doing stuff like that.

Apparently, the EW page ( I don't read it) some comment you reported a poster said Michonne was a ****, so you know that wasn't really about the head-knocking scene being right or wrong. That comment was about something else. Something in their own head.

I think we can make it clear here that we can: argue /debate/ hatewatch whatever but don't go evil or don't come on here.

 

I understand what you're saying. 

 

I think the hatred against women is not as bad as it was with fans in the first three seasons, but yes, it's still there. I know some fans were justifiably annoyed by Maggie not mentioning Beth, but all of this was overshadowed for me by the misogyny and slurs that still continue. I guess I have not gone to as many boards with TWD or forums with TWD that I did in recent seasons, so I have not seen all of the worst that you have. 

[flutist4fun]

I think it was another instance of Gratuitous Electricity to establish ASZ=Cush.

I guess it could be rigged to be battery/other operated (hey, if the Amish can make KitchenAids run on propane so that they can still have hands-free blending but not "use electricity", I'm not ruling anything out)

This really made me laugh. Yes! When CDB (inevitably) gets kicked out of ASZ, wouldn't it be fun to have them all migrate to Pennsylvania Amish country, where they discover everyone there living pretty much as usual, and they can all restart civilization according to Amish rules? They can all intermarry and CDB will gradually recover their strength and sanity, then in about six to eight episodes the Amish will realize that CDB is code for 'plague.' And the story will continue.

[kikismom]

I have no idea what you are implying!

I was using the gif like do I sense a shipping war over the horizon? Nooooo!

I personally want Sasha to be the eventual Romance-Andrea but I am not hating whoever. I would think it's fun to see Rick with some love scenes but not too much, it's not the CW.

[morgankobi]

And just because he's a doctor doesn't mean he's soft.  When Jessie was trying to explain to Rick in the garage she said "He's been through a lot of stuff". 

Yeah, like art school ;)

 

I can't help wondering if someone on the show decided that Rick wouldn't find Jessie "hot" if she had visible bruises. 

I think it may be more of wanting the cast to look attractive by showing some skin (like you do with tv shows) plus a dose of lazy characterization so that we were all *so surprised* by the revelation.

Edited March 24, 2015 by morgankobi

[What Fresh Hell]

Just a comment for now, I didn't see Carol smiling, looked more like a grimace, to me. I'm sure she's not down with this blatant loony stuff that Rick's displaying. She can't have known Rick would wander this far from the plan. She's got her own issues, so can't be expected to be keeping a scorecard on Rick's mental state. He's always seemed pretty sane in his scenes with her.

The only time I really like Rick is when he's nuts, so am thoroughly enjoying this. Crazy Rick is fun!

[AndySmith]

I know some fans were justifiably annoyed by Maggie not mentioning Beth

 

I'm still annoyed ;)

 

When CDB (inevitably) gets kicked out of ASZ

 

You mean when CDB leaves it as a charred, still-smoking husk of it's former self...like they do everywhere they visit.

[HalcyonDays]

Also, we've seen Jessie's arms and her face. That doesn't mean there are no bruises on her elsewhere. It also doesn't mean that there have never been bruises on her arms and face. It just means right now she could be in a cycle of abuse where there are none. We've only "known" her for a short period of time, right?

 

People are forgetting emotional/psychological abuse. We all assume its physical abuse, because Carol I think said to Rick that Pete is hitting her. But no one is suggesting emotional/psychological abuse, which of course does not leave physical signs.

 

I can't help wondering if someone on the show decided that Rick wouldn't find Jessie "hot" if she had visible bruises.

 

That I can believe, but its more likely that visible bruises then negates the Carol suspects Pete storyline. They want us to not be sure about Pete. Of course, simple solution would be to have Jessie not being wearing tanktops and instead wearing clothing that covers her up more. In addition, she could be shown nervously adjusting her clothing to make sure certain areas are covered up, thus hinting at her deliberately hiding her bruises. But then as you said, it might hide her "hotness."

 

The reality is that this is a typical TV Trope. Blonde woman, Abusive alcoholic husband, Main male interested in blonde, etc. One of you mentioned last week having that trope be flipped - that Pete is being abused by sweet Jessie, and drinks to cope. That would break the mold, which would be different.

[Ottis]

I know!  When people started suggesting a couple weeks ago that Pete was abusing her I wondered what they all were seeing that I wasn't.  In addition Ron doesn't act like there is anything wrong either.  Would a teenager want his friends hanging around the house where his mom is getting beat up?  That's what makes this storyline so out of left field.  There was no build up of suspicion, just Carol's gut feeling.

 

 

That's what I posted last week, and I was disappointed to see this week's show confirm the abuse (sort of, Deanna said it was true and Pete looked threatening but we never really confirmed it) and therefore Carol's gut feeling. Which seemed a cheap and easy development to maneuver Rick to whatever is happening now. I don't understand the point of this "they don't get it, while we get it' stuff. The difference is too subtle for me, I guess. Deanna should see that Nicholas is a coward and fool. She alluded to "seeing a lot," so hopefully that is what she meant. But Rick is all sorts of whacky now. It's like he takes in input and then concludes that something inappropriate is an Ok response by him.

[peach]

I personally think that is a little high. Terminus mission statement "become a part of us or feed us" Judging by the number of people in boxcars and at the baseball troth plenty of people passed on that deal

 

Woodbury was tricky. Most of those people thought they were attacking people who had attacked them. They had no idea Merle had kidnapped people and what they were doing to them. Yes, there was WWE Walker Edition night but those people were already dead and while sick, I wouldn't leave a safe haven because of that alone. The Governor was very good a manipulating people who are already scared and vulnerable.

 

I would like to think that I would not agree to eat people, rape anyone, stand by and let someone be raped or not try and find a solution to spousal abuse because I had running water and electricity.  

I said almost anything, not anything at all.  Everyone would like to think they wouldn't agree to anything bad.  Pretending something is not happening is clearly used all over the world every day right now.  Human beings are capable of compartmentalization for a reason, so they don't lose their damn minds in inescapable, stressful situations.  I hope I wouldn't do a lot of things, but I've never been starving or threatened with extinction before.  I have been threatened with death by a very disturbed individual many years ago, and one thing I DO know, is that the people who talk the loudest game about how brave they are and what they wouldn't tolerate, are the first people to bail out in a skinny minute when things get even a LITTLE BIT dicey.  

 

As for ASZ, what's frustrating is that they seem like they have much better options available to deal with Pete and Jessie, but there is more going on in their perfect community that meets the eye.  If Deanna says don't piss off the doctor, or you're out instead, I doubt anyone would truly risk their own lives to help her.  Or even a meal.

[RainOnToosdays]

 

The reality is that this is a typical TV Trope. Blonde woman, Abusive alcoholic husband, Main male interested in blonde, etc. One of you mentioned last week having that trope be flipped - that Pete is being abused by sweet Jessie, and drinks to cope. That would break the mold, which would be different.

Since there are no signs of physical abuse on Jessie I was buying into that theory, Hoped the show was just giving us white herrings to make us think Jessie is the victim, leading up to a big reveal in the finale that WHOA, everyone (characters and viewers alike) is wrong, Jessie is the bad guy here. That would have been great and could have led to all kinds of new angst for Rick & Carol - doubting their own instincts, remembering to trust noone, feeling foolish for having been played .... But I think this episode pretty much cemented that no, it is indeed Jessie as victim, proceed with trope. And that's a shame because if this board is any indication of overall viewership, the vast majority are finding this story line ridiculous. Not good for a show that touts itself as the #1 show on television.

[kj4ever]

I didn't see most of that here. I was talking about comments here. 

 

Yes, there are ugly comments made, especially on Twitter, but I often feel like any criticism of this character is lumped together as unfair and based on jealousy or hate or her being blonde or not wanting Rick to get laid, etc.

I've seen every one of those examples here, and if someone made comments like that about another type of women it would have been an outrage.  Thank God our moderator stopped people from basically calling her a whore.

[peach]

This really made me laugh. Yes! When CDB (inevitably) gets kicked out of ASZ, wouldn't it be fun to have them all migrate to Pennsylvania Amish country, where they discover everyone there living pretty much as usual, and they can all restart civilization according to Amish rules? They can all intermarry and CDB will gradually recover their strength and sanity, then in about six to eight episodes the Amish will realize that CDB is code for 'plague.' And the story will continue.

Z Nation included Amish zombies one episode.  That's a great show, I think it's on Netflix now.

[Pete Martell]

I've seen every one of those examples here, and if someone made comments like that about another type of women it would have been an outrage.  Thank God our moderator stopped people from basically calling her a whore.

 

I think any female character, including Jessie, wouldn't get that type of comment from a large majority of people here, but yes, it's good that it wasn't allowed.

 

With that said, I have to admit the number of times I've seen fans of the character essentially reduce her to nothing more than a sex object for Rick, who reduce her (in spite of her being an abuse victim) to nothing more than someone for Rick to bed in order to upset "the haters," and who chide other fans who don't want to see her the same way and are unhappy at the idea of that being her role in the narrative, it's difficult for me to know how people feel about her. I've heard a lot about why it's wrong to hate her, and little about what there is to actually care about with her.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Nashville]

I like the nine inch nails song but don't get why they played it.

  

It was the first track on her dead son's "run mix" - the loud music they played when heading out on a run, to draw walkers away from the ASZ.

So Pete is beating his wife so bad but there are no bruises at all on her or the son, and she walks into Rick's house with him shirtless and cuts his hair?....lol. Sorry but that makes zero sense. She does not act scared or abused or look it in any way. 

 

Only amateur wifebeaters leave bruises in easily-seen body locations like the lower arms. The real pro bowlers know where to go - low blows to the abdomen or kidneys, belt across the back, etc. Soap in a sock, anyone?

(And lest anyone is thinking bad of me, I'm not speaking as a subject matter expert. For years my job required lots of weekend and off-hours work at hospitals - which meant lots of interesting chats with ER staff during the downtimes.)

  

I have a hard time believing that the entire community is willing to protect Pete because he's a surgeon. Surely there must be or has been ONE person who will speak up Jessie unless they did speak up and were exiled.

  

"Protect Pete" might be putting it strongly. I think more like "ignore the signs" - which makes it much easier to maintain the "happy little community " illusion.

 As to the smirking that some people said they saw Carol doing during the fight - I watched again last night and what I saw was Carol compressing her lips, just like my mom used to do when she was under stress.  Fearful or angry.  I think Carol was wanting to step in and help beat up Pete, but couldn't, due to her having to stay "in character" as the Junior League mom she was playing.

I saw it more as Carol stressing because Rick's explosion was blowing the lid clean off their assimilate-and-dominate plan.

[I-Kare]

I think any female character, including Jessie, wouldn't get that type of comment from a large majority of people here, but yes, it's good that it wasn't allowed.

 

With that said, I have to admit the number of times I've seen fans of the character essentially reduce her to nothing more than a sex object for Rick, who reduce her (in spite of her being an abuse victim) to nothing more than someone for Rick to bed in order to upset "the haters," and who chide other fans who don't want to see her the same way and are unhappy at the idea of that being her role in the narrative, it's difficult for me to know how people feel about her. I've heard a lot about why it's wrong to hate her, and little about what there is to actually care about with her.

 

I haven't seen anyone here reduce her to those things. I must have missed those posts. 

 

I keep pointing out (probably repeatedly) that we don't know enough about her in her very few episodes (roughly 20 minutes air time) to hate her. That would also apply to loving her. I like the actress, always have, and I think that's a valid reason to like a character when they first appear. I like the chemistry the two actors have. Another reason to like the character. I also like that she seems like a nice person. I like nice people.

 

 

I like that she asked her husband to leave in this episode. I think that's something she's probably wanted to do and finally Rick gave her what she needed to do that.

 

But all of these things are things I've listed before here. I'm okay with liking her until she gives me a reason not to. But then again that's just how I handle any new character. Jessie's no different. 

[diebartdie]

Z Nation included Amish zombies one episode.  That's a great show, I think it's on Netflix now.

LOL!!! Z Nation is like the Cleopatra 2525 / Jack of All Trades of the zombie genre!!! Hahaha oh man that show is pretty bad but I am actually looking forward to it's return this summer. Even Cleopatra 2525 had it's compelling moments, Z Nation might get there too! What a hoot!

[Pete Martell]

I haven't seen anyone here reduce her to those things. I must have missed those posts. 

 

All the posts about how people don't understand men or don't get it if they were concerned about Rick leering at her or behaving in a questionable manner toward her, how we just don't like her because we don't want Rick to "fuck" her, how they need to get together and have sex because of the "haters" who are Richonne fans, et al.

 

I've always been uncomfortable with her being reduced to that role, especially with all the speculation from early on that she was an abuse victim. 

 

There are some reasons to like her, and thank you for pointing them out. It's just that, more often than not, the discussion has centered on Rick's penis.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pete Martell

[peach]

LOL!!! Z Nation is like the Cleopatra 2525 / Jack of All Trades of the zombie genre!!! Hahaha oh man that show is pretty bad but I am actually looking forward to it's return this summer. Even Cleopatra 2525 had it's compelling moments, Z Nation might get there too! What a hoot

 

I love it.  It's entertaining and moves along at a nice clip.  It helps me cope with the burden of being a Walking Dead fan.

[I-Kare]

Just to add (but doing it in a different post because it's about Carol), I think because of her past it makes sense to me that she wanted Rick to handle the abuse situation. Not sure I can even articulate my thoughts well on it, but I think the situation was too close to her past for her to deal with it on her own. Maybe she even didn't trust herself to be able to complete the task...or do it well...because of the emotions surrounding it for her. 

 

"There are some reasons to like her, and thank you for pointing them out. It's just that, more often than not, the discussion has centered on Rick's penis."

 

 

Not to be all "not all posters" but I for one have never mentioned Rick's penis in any setting or situation. =)

Edited March 24, 2015 by I-Kare

[kj4ever]

I haven't seen anyone here reduce her to those things. I must have missed those posts. 

 

I keep pointing out (probably repeatedly) that we don't know enough about her in her very few episodes (roughly 20 minutes air time) to hate her. That would also apply to loving her. I like the actress, always have, and I think that's a valid reason to like a character when they first appear. I like the chemistry the two actors have. Another reason to like the character. I also like that she seems like a nice person. I like nice people.

 

 

I like that she asked her husband to leave in this episode. I think that's something she's probably wanted to do and finally Rick gave her what she needed to do that.

 

But all of these things are things I've listed before here. I'm okay with liking her until she gives me a reason not to. But then again that's just how I handle any new character. Jessie's no different. 

I've seen lots of reasons why people were interested to know Jessie.  She's kind, compassionate...Took the time to help some rather messed up new comers deal with their situation.  Made sure Carl was introduced to kids his own age.  I've seen lots of reasons why people liked Jessie posted here, over and over.

 

With that said I promised myself I wouldn't feed the crazies this week so I'm done with that subject...lol

[AndySmith]

I think it might have helped a bit had we saw Jessie interacting with some other people in Rick's crews. Or heck, even just a scene of Rick talking to someone about her giving us the illusion that she was interacting with people besides Rick.

 

Rick: "So what do you think of our neighbors?"

Maggie/Rosita/Glenn/whoever: "They seem nice. But, I dunno..."

Rick: "What?"

Maggie/Rosita/Glenn/whoever: "I was talking to Jessie earlier, and something about her seemed...off."

 

If you're not going to show Jessie actually talking to anyone besides Rick, give us the impression that she is, at least.

[kikismom]

So Pete is beating his wife so bad but there are no bruises at all on her or the son

I have to address this:

I volunteered at a Daycare center to help my friend who owned it. A new boy started in the 3 year old room. One monday he just stared into space, and he felt hot to me so I thought I will change his shirt. On his back from the shoulders to his butt were bruises literally in the shape of handprints, in different colors.

Of course we called the law. But abusers are not freaking stupid. Sick, but not stupid. They only hit visible places when they are in full rage, but "day to day" beatings are carefully aimed for places not visible unless the victim walks around in public stark naked.

 

Even worse, 20 years ago my co-worker sometimes brought her daughter by. Sweet girl, smiled, spoke well, did very well in school. One day as her mother was driving her home from school the girl fell apart. The stepfather and his friends had be having sex with her, plus anal sex, plus making her perform oral sex on them.

She was driven to the hospital where they confirmed she had signs of sexual abuse over months. The normal family physician never did a pelvic on her of course. Why would he have thought of that. She was 10 years old.

He is fortunately in prison still, he got 45 years. His own mother of course was trying to say that the child wanted it and she's the one who started it with these men--even when she had such a bad kidney infection the kid was hospitalized on IV's.

 

I am sick of people thinking if it isn't visible in their face they don't buy it , the woman (or child) is a liar, a manipulative liar, that abuse victims scuttle around with their head down not making eye contact.

I am sick of people deciding if she doesn't looked bruised or bloody and the kid doesn't , not only is she a manipulative liar but she is the one that should be suspected---and they want it to be that. They HOPE for that.

 

How far can you take hate for this character?

I never heard anyone say that about anyone else

. I never heard anyone say, well Glenn says his mom and sisters are dead---but he's still alive? How does that happen? Sounds unlikely to me? What guy would let him Mom and sisters die and he doesn't have a scratch on him?

 

I never heard anyone say how could Michonne's son be dead? You think maybe she killed Andre? She said never said how he died! But she chopped her boyfriend and his buddy and put them on chains? What wouldn't she do ? and wouldn't it be so much cooler as a story than the old cliche of a woman wronged ?

 

I never heard anyone say Herschel didn't want us to know his wife and stepson were in the barn? Maybe he beat them to death and they turned---I saw no proof they were bit! They would never talk about how it happened!  How come Maggie could act all outraged about calling them walkers but she was pretty good at using a baseball bat on one from horseback---it doesn't add up?

[AndySmith]

I am sick of people thinking if it isn't visible in their face they don't buy it

 

Well, if you watched ER, something like that wouldn't be news to a person ;)

[Boofish]

I said almost anything, not anything at all.  Everyone would like to think they wouldn't agree to anything bad.  Pretending something is not happening is clearly used all over the world every day right now.  Human beings are capable of compartmentalization for a reason, so they don't lose their damn minds in inescapable, stressful situations.  I hope I wouldn't do a lot of things, but I've never been starving or threatened with extinction before.  I have been threatened with death by a very disturbed individual many years ago, and one thing I DO know, is that the people who talk the loudest game about how brave they are and what they wouldn't tolerate, are the first people to bail out in a skinny minute when things get even a LITTLE BIT dicey.  

 

As for ASZ, what's frustrating is that they seem like they have much better options available to deal with Pete and Jessie, but there is more going on in their perfect community that meets the eye.  If Deanna says don't piss off the doctor, or you're out instead, I doubt anyone would truly risk their own lives to help her.  Or even a meal.

I guess I will just have to wait for a ZA to test my moral compass

[Pete Martell]

I never doubted that she was being abused, but I can see why some fans weren't sure, because we never got her POV on anything. We saw her husband, or her son. We got oblique third-hand interpretations. We got Carol's bad vibe. We got Rick's bad vibe. We got nothing of her until now. Even in this episode, the only POV we got from her was almost entirely about Rick.

 

I said this in another thread a week ago, but it would be like doing an adaptation of The Burning Bed in which Francine Hughes barely appears, and a majority of the story is all about a newcomer to town who has the hots for her. 

[Pixel]

I actually like Jessie. I don't like how unhinged Rick is becoming, but I don't blame that on Jessie. She's a perfectly sweet, decent person in a shitty situation. I feel like the glimpses we've see of her are enough to deduce that she's a worthwhile person, and that what you see is what you get with her, and she's worthy of being an object of Rick's interest. In fact, at this point I'd say she's out of Rick's league, at least until he gets his mental shit together.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pixel

[HalcyonDays]

*KicksThreadHard*  Alright, alright, let's move on from the Jessie back and forth.

 

It's becoming eerily similar to the Beth back and forth and I swear, if Jessie shows up with a guitar and starts singing, I don't have enough vodka in the house to cope with that.

 

We are all going to intrepret how Jessie is being presented on screen, alone and with respect to Rick, differently (through our own lens) but let's not rehash and argue back and forth over it. Everyone's been pretty decent: I just don't want this to devolve into a "shouting" match. Please and thanks.

[kj4ever]

That's what I posted last week, and I was disappointed to see this week's show confirm the abuse (sort of, Deanna said it was true and Pete looked threatening but we never really confirmed it) and therefore Carol's gut feeling. Which seemed a cheap and easy development to maneuver Rick to whatever is happening now. I don't understand the point of this "they don't get it, while we get it' stuff. The difference is too subtle for me, I guess. Deanna should see that Nicholas is a coward and fool. She alluded to "seeing a lot," so hopefully that is what she meant. But Rick is all sorts of whacky now. It's like he takes in input and then concludes that something inappropriate is an Ok response by him.

I'm really, really hoping that she was rewatching that tape so that she could see his "tells" since, you know, she was going to be a professional poker player.  if that is true she should see that he was lying out his ass.  I really hope she did the same thing with Glenn and we just haven't seen it yet.

[kikismom]

All the posts about how people don't understand men or don't get it if they were concerned about Rick leering at her or behaving in a questionable manner toward her, how we just don't like her because we don't want Rick to "fuck" her, how they need to get together and have sex because of the "haters" who are Richonne fans, et al.

 

The posts about people not understanding men came because of all the posts with reasons why women appreciate (rightly) a woman who is strong or a woman who is tough etc---reasons why someone else was a better person than Jessie.----but that has not ever been at the top of men's list for sex.

It isn't that posters were wrong about what they admire in other women---but to be a female and say somebody is admired or a role model hasn't got anything to do with a man's ---yes, I'll say it---penis.

People think there should be a mutual attraction of equals. That's great. There should also be world peace, the end of hunger, and pizza that doesn't make people fat. There should be. There isn't.

Posters were looking at Jessie, Michonne, who knows who else, from the point of view of the kind of woman they would want to be or want to know.

Rick Grimes and his urges don't give a crap what kind of woman another woman wants. Most men don't.

 

Every time I hear the jokes about the owl sculpture Jessie was making with her sons, I think of the old Jerry Seinfeld joke.

A man's job is very important to a woman. Men don't pick up girls by saying they are a grocery bagger or ditch digger. But men don't care.  If they are hot for someone they don't care what she does. "Oh you work in a slaughterhouse? Great, great; do you want to go somewhere, my place, have a drink?"

 

(ok, Halcyon, see your post)

Edited March 24, 2015 by kikismom

[AndySmith]

if Jessie shows up with a guitar and starts singing

 

Of course she wouldn't, she'd show up with random scrap materials and build us an owl sculpture.

 

Or, if she dies, and Rick has a Tyrese style hallucination, she can show up giving Herschell a haircut...

Edited March 24, 2015 by AndySmith

[kj4ever]

The posts about people not understanding men came because of all the posts with reasons why women appreciate (rightly) a woman who is strong or a woman who is tough etc---reasons why someone else was a better person than Jessie.----but that has not ever been at the top of men's list for sex.

It isn't that posters were wrong about what they admire in other women---but to be a female and say somebody is admired or a role model hasn't got anything to do with a man's ---yes, I'll say it---penis.

People think there should be a mutual attraction of equals. That's great. There should also be world peace, the end of hunger, and pizza that doesn't make people fat. There should be. There isn't.

Posters were looking at Jessie, Michonne, who knows who else, from the point of view of the kind of woman they would want to be or want to know.

Rick Grimes and his urges don't give a crap what kind of woman another woman wants. Most men don't.

 

Every time I hear the jokes about the owl sculpture Jessie was making with her sons, I think of the old Jerry Seinfeld joke.

A man's job is very important to a woman. Men don't pick up girls by saying they are a grocery bagger or ditch digger. But men don't care.  If they are hot for someone they don't care what she does. "Oh you work in a slaughterhouse? Great, great; do you want to go somewhere, my place, have a drink?"

 

(ok, Halcyon, see your post)

OMG if someone could make a pizza that doesn't make you fat I think we could achieve World Peace.

[diebartdie]

Quoting kikismom again

 

I am sick of people thinking if it isn't visible in their face they don't buy it , the woman (or child) is a liar, a manipulative liar, that abuse victims scuttle around with their head down not making eye contact.

because Im guilty of exactly that. My excuse is that we are watching a tv show, not reality. In reality, people do all that horrible stuff you mentioned. In reality many of us on this forum have gone through abuse or seen it up close and the range of experiences is immense. That is reality. The Walking Dead is not reality, it is a tv show and even the very best, most brilliant tv shows have to communicate to so many people the show HAS to use "tropes", has to communicate even subtle things broadly (that's a dichotomy). TWD is not the most brilliant tv show ever (my vote is for Breaking Bad), it's often times crude, blunt, stupid. In that regard, the abuse story got even more fucked up when there wasn't any OBVIOUS signs of abuse. I dont hate the Jessie character, hell I dont (yet) hate the Pete character because I'm STILL not convinced things were so fucking horrible for Jessie.

 

I think this storyline has got a lot of us triggered, some are responding like Carol, seeing more than has been actually shown. Others of us are responding to EXACTLY what we've been shown. Man I feel like Im defending abusers or something when I say this but Jessie does not act like any other tv character who is representing an abused human being. For me it is just that simple. Yes the writing is weak but so is the direction, so is the makeup and damnit so is the actor. SHE is making the choice to portray a character who outwardly looks and acts like everything is fine (which does happen IRL), in this milieu, she's making the wrong choice. She could have done things, even constrained by poor wrting to show the AUDIENCE things were severely fucked up between her and Pete. To me she just looked BORED with Pete and so over his drunk ass.

[Pete Martell]

The posts about people not understanding men came because of all the posts with reasons why women appreciate (rightly) a woman who is strong or a woman who is tough etc---reasons why someone else was a better person than Jessie.----but that has not ever been at the top of men's list for sex.

It isn't that posters were wrong about what they admire in other women---but to be a female and say somebody is admired or a role model hasn't got anything to do with a man's ---yes, I'll say it---penis.

People think there should be a mutual attraction of equals. That's great. There should also be world peace, the end of hunger, and pizza that doesn't make people fat. There should be. There isn't.

Posters were looking at Jessie, Michonne, who knows who else, from the point of view of the kind of woman they would want to be or want to know.

Rick Grimes and his urges don't give a crap what kind of woman another woman wants. Most men don't.

 

I see what you mean, but the concern for some of us wasn't that it made no sense for Rick to be attracted to Jessie, but that we thought his behavior was offputting, creepy, and downright dangerous. I guess some Jessie fans may have seen this as a putdown on her, that we were saying he must be screwed up if he wants her, but I just thought he was screwed up, period, and it wasn't something I could write off as being the typical man or being a real man.

 

To me it's the biggest failing in this story - they repeatedly try and try to simultaneously say he's off-center, and to say it's real and true and a great burgeoning love affair that makes him alive again. And I can't get behind seeing any of his behavior, all the way down to endangering his kids, as something to admire, as something signaling a new love or a new connection, which the show seems to be pushing.

[Evie]

I'm really, really hoping that she was rewatching that tape so that she could see his "tells" since, you know, she was going to be a professional poker player. if that is true she should see that he was lying out his ass. I really hope she did the same thing with Glenn and we just haven't seen it yet.

Even if I didn't know he was lying, it was really obvious he was lying. Whatever question Deanna asked before Spencer interrupted, you could tell Nicholas hadn't rehearsed that part and was trying to come up with an answer.

[JackONeill]

He is.    He probably makes her drive the family truckster.

 

I haven't seen anyone else mention this. When the family was listening to that god-awful music (it was music, right?) as a way of grieving their son, did anyone else see how high everyone jumped when Reg (loudly) said, "Enough."  Even Deanna jumped. I think Reg may not be the wimp that he's been made out to be.  Either that, or Deanna is a lot more caring than let on to be.