S05.E15: Try

[TexasChic]

Yeah, I've always had to turn the volume way up for this show, but then I have to leave the room for the commercials because it's too loud.  It's a way to get some exercise anyways.  Rick can have a real hoarse raspy voice and Norman can sort of mumble at times.  The rest I do okay with usually.  I did wonder about the girl earlier running around as if she was just coming from or going to a birthday party with what looked like a gift and the balloon, later the balloon floats by during the brawl in the street.  Does the balloon bring on the unfair wolves or a herd of walkers?   What is that wayward balloon with the magical apocalypse helium suppose to signal?

It's a signal that Pennywise is back.

[North of Eden]

Wow, I can't believe they literally introduced a "Checkov's Gun". After years of surviving zombies the show better not try to shock us with Glenn being murdered at the hands of that lying punk.

 

This was the first "off" episode since probably the hospital shows. Just wasn't feeling it.  I didn't like the short cut of skipping Deanna and family intial reaction to Aiden's death. Also I really hate the idea of Michonne turning on Rick. Lastly this show doesn't seem like its building to a big season finale of Rick's group  taking over....even Carol stood by and did nothing during the fight.

 

One bit I've wanted to say all season. The credits have always been odd on this show. It took Melissa McBride a long time to  make the main credits. Now its the same with Sasha's actress. Why is Abraham's actor in the main credits and she's not having been there longer. Next season if she lives SMG better get bumped up to the main credits!

[kikismom]

Wow, I can't believe they literally introduced a "Checkov's Gun". After years of surviving zombies the show better not try to shock us with Glenn being murdered at the hands of that lying punk.

 

This was the first "off" episode since probably the hospital shows. Just wasn't feeling it.  I didn't like the short cut of skipping Deanna and family intial reaction to Aiden's death. Also I really hate the idea of Michonne turning on Rick. Lastly this show doesn't seem like its building to a big season finale of Rick's group  taking over....even Carol stood by and did nothing during the fight.

 

One bit I've wanted to say all season. The credits have always been odd on this show. It took Melissa McBride a long time to  make the main credits. Now its the same with Sasha's actress. Why is Abraham's actor in the main credits and she's not having been there longer. Next season if she lives SMG better get bumped up to the main credits!

I don't feel like Michonne turned on RIck. I think she just had to stop it before either someone shot Rick, or before Carl tried again and got knocked out himself, or before they all got thrown out the gate.

YMMV though.

I will tip that the discussion out by the car before they left with Aaron was very important. Remember she asked if his "yes" was real, was he really agreeing to go join ASZ. Or was he just trying to get the guy (Aaron) to tell where the camp was.

She may have suspected then that he might have plans to take over any place. Then that ties in to why Michonne is one of the people not included in the "Quarry Threesome".

Yes, the credits have always been odd. The things is, that is not decided by who is most important to us or in the show longer...but, sadly, how much clout your agent has. Even huge stars have epic fights over this. Like A-list movie stars. Some people barter also; less pay in return for higher billing. It is bizarre as you said MMB was there from the beginning but kept getting "also starring" like she was a guest.

[kikismom]

Personally, I can't think of a more humiliating death than getting munched by some Mickey Mouse-sounding motherwalker.

I posted a comment on the Media thread with a spoiler tag in case I get blamed if it is on the mark about helium.

Oh, someone tell me if this statement by an important cast member means anything or not!

Ask.fm Q&A with Chandler Riggs; he is asked if he

had a choice what way to die what would it be...and

he said "Helium. The body mistakes it for oxygen and

there is no pain." I'm not saying Carl will die---I'm

saying it's odd for him to know that...and odd that

is a subject of discussion in this show. The balloon,

the big tank in the Andersons garage.

[chlban]

I certainly got the impression that Michonne was behaving as law enforcement and to protect the rest of the group from any further damage from Rick going off the reservation with his ranting and raving. I didn't get she was being a bad-ass but being professional.  I don't really think any of the group want to get exiled, though they do want the rest of ASZ folks to wake up to the realities of the ZA.  Not sure how they have managed to escape any of the horrors, as I cannot believe such a large metro area seriously got so fully evacuated.  Where did they relocate the millions that lived in that area is my question.

I don't really know; or care, if Michonne was acting as  LE or if she was trying to save Rick from himself or if she was tying to ensure that the entire  gang didn't get exiled because that ASZhats would think they all blindly followed Captain Crazy Pants. All of the above would be adequate justification. IMO.  He was behaving like a lunatic. If anyone outside of CDB had clocked him, then Glen, Carl and others would feel compelled to defend him, although personally I'm not sure why. Only one of them could do it, IMO and Carol is still trying to sell her June Cleaver persona, which obviously would have been blown to hell if it had been her. 

 

So, Michonne did what had to be done. She didn't shoot him, he's going to have a bad headache which I think he well deserves. 

 

You have to remember he didn't go off the rails like that  because someone had harmed one of his kids or even one of his friends. He went off the rails because porchdick took offense to walking in on his wife and the Captain, whispering and acting all secretive, followed immediately by his wife telling him to get out. Then, when Captain Crazy  suggested to Deanna that porchdick must die she didn't immediately get on board. Obviously everyone is supposed to always get on board with Captain Crazy Pants. 

 

I realize there is a ton of Rick love, which I guess there is supposed to be because he is clearly the leading man. Maybe it's just my contrary nature, but I don't get that love.  Michonne clocking him? That I totally get.

[morgankobi]

One bit I've wanted to say all season. The credits have always been odd on this show. It took Melissa McBride a long time to  make the main credits. Now its the same with Sasha's actress. Why is Abraham's actor in the main credits and she's not having been there longer. Next season if she lives SMG better get bumped up to the main credits!

It's all about how their agent negotiated their contract.

[kj4ever]

i think Rick needed said clocking and that's why Michonne did it.  It was for his own good.

 

Now I do think we need to look at some of it objectively.  Rick did not go to Deanna and say "We need to kill Pete."  He said we need to stop Pete.  Deanna asked how as he was the surgeon and valuable.  Rick said that they would separate him from the family and protect the family.  Deanna's response was "Well what if he doesn't want to and won't listen to us?"  That statement alone shows how worthless Deanna is as a leader.  Rick then went the well I...We kill him. 

 

I can get on board with that in this type of world.  he would have a chance to stop, but if he didn't want to well bye bye.

[NoWillToResist]

Those walls are super thick...Rick can hear a walker bumping into it...The gate needs WD-40..Douchebag van regularly departing...RV of recruitment...absolutely nothing to attract zombies.

 

I remember when Aaron showed the photo of their community, I thought the tall walls were concrete. That would muffle sound and be walker-proof, IMO. So imagine my surprise when CDB rolled up and it's just shitty corrugated metal sheets, which are thin and, if I'm not mistaken, often echo and/or amplify sound.

 

I'm also surprised that they keep the lights on at night because wouldn't that attract walkers? Shouldn't they all have a 'lights out' curfew or something??

 

And it killed me to see Jessie use an electric garage door opener to shut Rick out. Fuck video games...that is a waste of electricity!!!!

[kikismom]

  Deanna's response was "Well what if he doesn't want to and won't listen to us?"  That statement alone shows how worthless Deanna is as a leader.

If I was Rick that would have been the time for me to ask:

1. So you don't know how to deal with someone inside the camp but you aren't worried about enemies outside the camp? Huh?
2. I thought you said you exiled 3 men. Did they just smile and leave, or how did you manage that?

 

Her leadership seemed wacky to me when she sighed : oh I hoped he would stop /I thought he would stop.

 

She sounds like one of those women who know their kid is shoplifting or her husband is looking at porn or grampa with dementia is wandering downtown flashing people at the intersection. oh sigh I was hoping it would take care of itself because I don't want to be bothered actually.

Yet she is full of energy and ambition for industry and commerce.

I remember when Aaron showed the photo of their community, I thought the tall walls were concrete. That would muffle sound and be walker-proof, IMO. So imagine my surprise when CDB rolled up and it's just shitty corrugated metal sheets, which are thin and, if I'm not mistaken, often echo and/or amplify sound.

I hope the finale is wind blowing a hailstorm sideways.

[nodorothyparker]

I've wondered about the exiled people too.  Because kikismom is right, she's got a mostly unarmed populace that seems loathe to do much of anything that involves too much effort and a leadership style that appears to be heavily dependent on hoping things will work themselves out.  So how did she manage to force three presumable adults back out into the world and are we expected to believe they just accepted that and skipped merrily away?  Considering how unfamiliar and unqualified everyone except Aaron seems to be outside the walls, I'm having a very hard time imaging anyone in this crew driving exiles 18 miles out and trying to dump them somewhere a la Shane.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

It's all about how their agent negotiated their contract.

 

         SMG, Alanna, Christian, Seth and Josh McDemitt are series regulars. 

 

         Due to the cast being quite large after S1, my theory is those that make the  

 

        Opening credits immediately (Danai and David Morrisey) depend on their character's  popularity/significance in the comic.  As for others like Scott Wilson and MMB, they're moved up  into spots left by departing cast members.

[Raven1707]

What Rick actually did in this episode:

 

• Rick listens attentively as Glenn explains what happened on the run which resulted in the deaths of Noah and Aiden, and injured Tara.
• Rick talks briefly to Carol, who tells him that Sam (1) has a bolt on his closet door so he can lock himself in, if necessary; and (2) that a month ago, he'd found his mother unconscious and bleeding on the floor while his father, the surgeon, sat outside.
• Even though he's armed and brooding, Rick settles for telling Pete to "keep walking" instead of popping him.
• Rick goes to Deanna to (1) offer condolences for her loss; and (2) informs her that Pete is beating Jessie, only to discover that Deanna, THE authority figure in Alexandria, knew about it and did nothing to prevent it.
• When Deanna asks how he intends to stop the abuse, Rick suggests separating them.
• When Deanna asks "What happens when he doesn’t want to do that?" Rick suggests killing Pete.
• When Deanna rejects that in favor of exile, Rick counters with "We do that, we don’t know when he comes back and what he does to them. Letting him go makes this place vulnerable. You really want to wait till someone in that tower has to take care of it? And that’s if we’re lucky."
• Rick talks to Jessie in the garage and she reluctantly confirms that there has been abuse, but insists "I can take care of myself."
• Rick just stands there as Jessie closes the garage door more or less in his face.
• Rick sees the people of Alexandria out & about, as if the world never changed, as if it's not dangerous. He also sees Sam with the toy boat & red balloon.
• Rick returns to Jessie's house and walks in without being invited.
• Rick tells Jessie that Sam asked for a gun.
• Rick offers to keep Jessie and her boys safe.
• After Jessie asks Pete to go, Rick says "Pete, you and me are leaving."
• When Pete gets in his face, Rick says "Step back."

 

Pete escalates matters by swinging at Rick and shoving him into the wall. All hell breaks loose, and more than a little crazy ensues. And yet, there's very little that Rick says about Alexandria and their "system" that sounds wildly irrational to me...


Rick: You still don’t get it. None of you do!
(Outside the walls, a small herd of walkers have gathered. Sasha raises her rifle)
Rick: We know what needs to be done. We do it. (Sasha fires) We’re the ones who live. (Sasha fires, twice) You, you just sit and plan and hesitate. You pretend to know when you don’t.  (Sasha fires)  You wish things weren’t what they are. (Sasha fires) Well, you want to live? You want this place to stay standing?  (Sasha fires, hitting a walker with a W on its forehead) Your way of doing things is done. Things don’t get better because you– you want them to. Starting right now, we have to live in the real world. We have to control who lives here.
Deanna: That’s never been more clear to me than it is right now.
Rick: Me? Me? You– (laughs) You mean– you mean me? Your way is gonna destroy this place. It’s gonna get people killed. It’s already gotten people killed. And I’m not gonna stand by and just let it happen. If you don’t fight, you die. I’m not gonna stand by–
(Michonne knocks Rick out, then reaches down and picks up his gun; she does not look pleased)

[Pete Martell]

What Rick actually did in this episode:

• Even though he's armed and brooding, Rick settles for telling Pete to "keep walking" instead of popping him.

 

For me this scene wasn't so much "settling" as further dropping a veneer that helped escalate tension even further. Pete was faking passive-aggressive niceness, which was, obviously, faked, but as Rick couldn't do anything at that moment, I thought snarling "keep walking" like he was on the way to In the Heat of the Night wasn't the best idea. Rick was lucky that Pete didn't go home and give Jessie yet another beating. 

 

For all we know, he did. 

[JackONeill]

For me this scene wasn't so much "settling" as further dropping a veneer that helped escalate tension even further. Pete was faking passive-aggressive niceness, which was, obviously, faked, but as Rick couldn't do anything at that moment, I thought snarling "keep walking" like he was on the way to In the Heat of the Night wasn't the best idea. Rick was lucky that Pete didn't go home and give Jessie yet another beating. 

 

For all we know, he did. 

 

I too wondered about that scene and Rick's comment.  Even though I sort of knew what was going on, my first thought: "God, Rick, you're quite the dick, aren't you?"

(which, now that I think about it in different light, maybe that's what Jessie's thinking.)(Just kidding.)

[6 MeowMeowBeenz]

And yet, there's very little that Rick says about Alexandria and their "system" that sounds wildly irrational to me...

 

So who among us likes to hear how incompetent we are? And these are the people who are living in the ZA in relative luxury. They are obviously a bit delusional but they've done well so far. You have to break these things gently...

 

Jimmy Carter told people things they didn't want to hear; look where it got him. 

[kikismom]

What Rick actually did in this episode:

 

• Rick listens attentively as Glenn explains what happened on the run which resulted in the deaths of Noah and Aiden, and injured Tara.
• Rick talks briefly to Carol, who tells him that Sam (1) has a bolt on his closet door so he can lock himself in, if necessary; and (2) that a month ago, he'd found his mother unconscious and bleeding on the floor while his father, the surgeon, sat outside.
• Even though he's armed and brooding, Rick settles for telling Pete to "keep walking" instead of popping him.
• Rick goes to Deanna to (1) offer condolences for her loss; and (2) informs her that Pete is beating Jessie, only to discover that Deanna, THE authority figure in Alexandria, knew about it and did nothing to prevent it.
• When Deanna asks how he intends to stop the abuse, Rick suggests separating them.
• When Deanna asks "What happens when he doesn’t want to do that?" Rick suggests killing Pete.
• When Deanna rejects that in favor of exile, Rick counters with "We do that, we don’t know when he comes back and what he does to them. Letting him go makes this place vulnerable. You really want to wait till someone in that tower has to take care of it? And that’s if we’re lucky."
• Rick talks to Jessie in the garage and she reluctantly confirms that there has been abuse, but insists "I can take care of myself."
• Rick just stands there as Jessie closes the garage door more or less in his face.
• Rick sees the people of Alexandria out & about, as if the world never changed, as if it's not dangerous. He also sees Sam with the toy boat & red balloon.
• Rick returns to Jessie's house and walks in without being invited.
• Rick tells Jessie that Sam asked for a gun.
• Rick offers to keep Jessie and her boys safe.
• After Jessie asks Pete to go, Rick says "Pete, you and me are leaving."
• When Pete gets in his face, Rick says "Step back."

 

Pete escalates matters by swinging at Rick and shoving him into the wall. All hell breaks loose, and more than a little crazy ensues. And yet, there's very little that Rick says about Alexandria and their "system" that sounds wildly irrational to me...

Rick: You still don’t get it. None of you do!

(Outside the walls, a small herd of walkers have gathered. Sasha raises her rifle)

Rick: We know what needs to be done. We do it. (Sasha fires) We’re the ones who live. (Sasha fires, twice) You, you just sit and plan and hesitate. You pretend to know when you don’t.  (Sasha fires)  You wish things weren’t what they are. (Sasha fires) Well, you want to live? You want this place to stay standing?  (Sasha fires, hitting a walker with a W on its forehead) Your way of doing things is done. Things don’t get better because you– you want them to. Starting right now, we have to live in the real world. We have to control who lives here.

Deanna: That’s never been more clear to me than it is right now.

Rick: Me? Me? You– (laughs) You mean– you mean me? Your way is gonna destroy this place. It’s gonna get people killed. It’s already gotten people killed. And I’m not gonna stand by and just let it happen. If you don’t fight, you die. I’m not gonna stand by–

(Michonne knocks Rick out, then reaches down and picks up his gun; she does not look pleased)

Thank you for the work you do transcribing. Excellent!

[NoWillToResist]

there's very little that Rick says about Alexandria and their "system" that sounds wildly irrational to me...

 

 

I personally have little to no issue with what Rick said in this episode. The problem is that, when the fight was broken up, instead of taking a moment to collect himself so that his opinions carried weight and credulity, it came off like the rantings of a mad man.

 

Perception is everything and Rick presented himself as a crazy, dangerous man to the ASZers who were there. Most don't know the details or the danger; all they see is the new guy beating on their only doctor and then ranting and waving a gun at everyone. Rick appeared unhinged. His message/warning was utterly lost on the group.

Edited March 26, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Pete Martell]

I haven't really thought of it as whatever's happening with Rick being some woman's fault.   Rick is the main character, or at least the first among equals, and a lot of the story revolves around him and how other characters interact with him.  Other than at the very beginning of the series, Rick's never been the lone ranger. There's always some other character in the mix, even if it's just him and Carl after the prison fell.   And the story gets driven forward by what happens with Rick.  People complain when an episode focuses on other characters, especially newer ones like Abraham or when it spent time on Beth at the hospital.  

 

I don't know why anyone would think Michonne is supposed to be an unwavering Rick supporter.  There really hasn't been anything about her character development that would make that credible.  Of everyone that's in this group, Michonne seems to me to be the one that's there completely by her own choice.  She's not related to anybody, she doesn't have a love interest there, she wasn't rescued by someone already in the group.  I thought when she thumped him she wasn't trying to save him, it was way too late for that because he'd already ranted enough to convince anyone within earshot that he was a total looney tunes.  I thought she did it because she was pissed off that he was unraveling like that.  But then she's had experience with the men in her life proving to be a disappointment.

 

I think the show has expanded from avenues beyond Rick ever since season 3 (Andrea and The Governor), although I think season 4 was the first that managed it successfully. I think it's been to the show's benefit, because as many people as may only watch for Rick or Carol or Daryl or Michonne, there are other viewers who are drawn to those that many insist are "worthless" and "there to die" (Glenn, Sasha, Tara, Rosita, Maggie, etc.) and I think it makes for a stronger show when we get their view as well as the view of Rick or his main allies. I'd go as far as to say I think the Alexandria story would not work at all if not for Glenn's role in it and to a lesser degree Sasha's, as otherwise it's mostly just Desperate Housewives with walkers falling down instead of Teri Hatcher.

 

As for Michonne, I do think she feels a great deal of loyalty toward Rick. She's said that Andrea, Carl, and Rick were big reasons why she found herself again. I don't think she has the same feeling for him she had for her boyfriend, a man who was obviously very weak but she tried to support him because she loved him and he was her child's father, but I do think she sees him as someone she cares enough about to help. I think her main goal was protecting the people of Alexandria, even protecting Carl (who'd just been knocked on his ass), but I think some element of it was about helping Rick as well.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kikismom]

So who among us likes to hear how incompetent we are? And these are the people who are living in the ZA in relative luxury. They are obviously a bit delusional but they've done well so far. You have to break these things gently...

 

Jimmy Carter told people things they didn't want to hear; look where it got him. 

Are any of us sure how "they've done well so far"?

 

There are people in our real world right now who are living in relative luxury; they are obviously doing well.

A lot of them need to be told about the things they are delusional about, the things they don't want to hear.

But nobody's breaking it to them, or perhaps just breaking it to them too gently; look where that's gotten the rest of us.

[kikismom]

 as many people as may only watch for Rick or Carol or Daryl or Michonne,

there are other viewers who are drawn to those that many insist are "worthless" and "there to die"......

...  otherwise it's mostly just Desperate Housewives

no kidding.

[JBody]

I haven't really thought of it as whatever's happening with Rick being some woman's fault.   Rick is the main character, or at least the first among equals, and a lot of the story revolves around him and how other characters interact with him.  Other than at the very beginning of the series, Rick's never been the lone ranger. There's always some other character in the mix, even if it's just him and Carl after the prison fell.   And the story gets driven forward by what happens with Rick.  People complain when an episode focuses on other characters, especially newer ones like Abraham or when it spent time on Beth at the hospital.  

 

I don't know why anyone would think Michonne is supposed to be an unwavering Rick supporter.  There really hasn't been anything about her character development that would make that credible.  Of everyone that's in this group, Michonne seems to me to be the one that's there completely by her own choice.  She's not related to anybody, she doesn't have a love interest there, she wasn't rescued by someone already in the group.  I thought when she thumped him she wasn't trying to save him, it was way too late for that because he'd already ranted enough to convince anyone within earshot that he was a total looney tunes.  I thought she did it because she was pissed off that he was unraveling like that.  But then she's had experience with the men in her life proving to be a disappointment.

 

I was nodding along until I got to this: "She's not related to anybody, she doesn't have a love interest there, she wasn't rescued by someone already in the group." I don't get that last bit there.  When Michonne showed up at the prison bleeding all over a basket of baby formula I'm pretty sure it was Carl who rescued her.  Sorry if I am not understanding what you wrote here.

[flutist4fun]

What Rick actually did in this episode:

 

And yet, there's very little that Rick says about Alexandria and their "system" that sounds wildly irrational to me...

I didn't want to quote the whole thing but thank you for this post, Raven! It clears up a lot. I haven't had a chance to re-watch, and I was starting to think I didn't know WTH was going on. (Which is possible since I'm always really scared of losing people the first time I watch. :-)

I'm with those who think Deanna is a waste of space. She knew about the abuse and did...nothing. Yay for political 'leaders.' Rick is NOT politically savvy but he has a heart and a conscience.

[BrokenRemote]

I don't really know; or care, if Michonne was acting as LE or if she was trying to save Rick from himself or if she was tying to ensure that the entire gang didn't get exiled because that ASZhats would think they all blindly followed Captain Crazy Pants. All of the above would be adequate justification. IMO. He was behaving like a lunatic. If anyone outside of CDB had clocked him, then Glen, Carl and others would feel compelled to defend him, although personally I'm not sure why. Only one of them could do it, IMO and Carol is still trying to sell her June Cleaver persona, which obviously would have been blown to hell if it had been her.

So, Michonne did what had to be done. She didn't shoot him, he's going to have a bad headache which I think he well deserves.

You have to remember he didn't go off the rails like that because someone had harmed one of his kids or even one of his friends. He went off the rails because porchdick took offense to walking in on his wife and the Captain, whispering and acting all secretive, followed immediately by his wife telling him to get out. Then, when Captain Crazy suggested to Deanna that porchdick must die she didn't immediately get on board. Obviously everyone is supposed to always get on board with Captain Crazy Pants.

I realize there is a ton of Rick love, which I guess there is supposed to be because he is clearly the leading man. Maybe it's just my contrary nature, but I don't get that love. Michonne clocking him? That I totally get.

I don't think went off the rails because he didn't get Jessie. That may have been the final thing but his rant on the ground was not "I want that woman and I want Pete dead so I can have her." It was "You people don't get it ". By extension, because they don't get it the town isn't safe, so Rick's family, both kids and extended, is not safe.

If it was really only about Jessie, why the speech?

[kj4ever]

Are any of us sure how "they've done well so far"?

 

There are people in our real world right now who are living in relative luxury; they are obviously doing well.

A lot of them need to be told about the things they are delusional about, the things they don't want to hear.

But nobody's breaking it to them, or perhaps just breaking it to them too gently; look where that's gotten the rest of us.

I'm thinking they have been doing pretty damn bad.  They get groups of people killed on supply runs.  They let people beat their wife and children if they are valuable.  There is absolutely no strong bond between any of them, hence the cut and run "system" for when there is trouble.  Their leader is weak and lets her asshat son go out on runs even though she obviously knows he needs "knocked on his ass".  This place is seriously jacked up, and the most jacked up thing about it is they don't even know they are jacked up.

 

Rick called it.  They are the luckiest damn people on Earth, but luck eventually runs out.

Edited March 26, 2015 by kj4ever

[Samx]

I'm thinking they have been doing pretty damn bad.  They get groups of people killed on supply runs.  They let people beat their wife and children if they are valuable.  There is absolutely no strong bond between any of them, hence the cut and run "system" for when there is trouble.  Their leader is weak and lets her asshat son go out on runs even though she obviously knows he needs "knocked on his ass".  This place is seriously jacked up, and the most jacked up thing about it is they don't even know they are jacked up.

 

Rick called it.  They are the luckiest damn people on Earth, but luck eventually runs out.

 

Yep, they're just supremely lucky and for all our sakes, I hope that luck runs out in the finale. They obviously haven't had to forage/hunt for food to survive or truly rely on one another; they're all just living together, not surviving together. Even though the DC metro area was supposedly evacuated, I'm still surprised a giant herd hasn't passed through. It's been roughly 2 years, surely large populations from nearby cities would roam their way. 

 

Re-reading the transcript of Rick's rant and picturing those words being said by a calm and reasonable Rick, it takes on a whole new meaning. The ASZhats might actually agree with him. I don't think he's wrong but ranting as a bloody faced, gun waving Ricktator really hurts his credibility.

[Pete Martell]

I don't think went off the rails because he didn't get Jessie. That may have been the final thing but his rant on the ground was not "I want that woman and I want Pete dead so I can have her." It was "You people don't get it ". By extension, because they don't get it the town isn't safe, so Rick's family, both kids and extended, is not safe.

If it was really only about Jessie, why the speech?

 

It's notable that he only went that far after they wouldn't protect Jessie. Before then he disapproved of the town, but was much more willing to bide his time.

 

Ideally he'd get that upset about any abused woman, but since they made sure to have him say he wouldn't, I guess that may not be the case.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Pete Martell

[BrokenRemote]

It's notable that he only went that far after they wouldn't protect Jessie. Before then he disapproved of the town, but was much more willing to bide his time.

Ideally he'd get that upset about any abused woman, but since they made sure to have him say he wouldn't, I guess that may not be the case.

Oh yeah, the whole encounter was the straw that broke the camel's back. I just think he wouldn't have a) attacked Pete to begin with or b) waved his gun around talking about how the Alexandrians didn't get it, if there weren't a lot of things leading up to it. And the rant, that was not about Jessie at all. It was something that was in his head that puked out his mouth when he was past his limits. Edited March 26, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Boofish]

Rick called it.  They are the luckiest damn people on Earth, but luck eventually runs out.

One would hope Maggie could have written a lessons learned for Deanna. I'm convinced they have laptops and wireless internet service. Just like the farm, the trouble have not gotten to them YET. It's really just a matter of time and they are not prepared. Just like the Greene family. At the beginning Herschel called Rick and his people "the plaque" and wanted them as far away from him and his family as possible. By the end of season 2 (one of my favorite episodes) he was telling them to "STFU and listen to Rick." I have a feeling Deanna will be singing the same tune

[Raven1707]

An afterthought regarding Rick...

 

Someone -- and I apologize, but I've forgotten who -- commented early in the thread that Rick “didn't bat an eye when multiple people told him Tara could die if he killed her husband.” (I copied the quote but not the attribution; what can I say, it was late.)

 

I've transcribed the entire episode, and no one told Rick Tara would die if he killed Pete.

 

Deanna said: "Pete’s a surgeon. He’s saved lives. He might be saving Tara’s life."

 

Jessie said: "But Tara, she’s– she’s in good hands with Pete."

 

Could it be inferred? Possibly, but I just don't see it.

[BrokenRemote]

An afterthought regarding Rick...

Someone -- and I apologize, but I've forgotten who -- commented early in the thread that Rick “didn't bat an eye when multiple people told him Tara could die if he killed her husband.” (I copied the quote but not the attribution; what can I say, it was late.)

I've transcribed the entire episode, and no one told Rick Tara would die if he killed Pete.

Deanna said: "Pete’s a surgeon. He’s saved lives. He might be saving Tara’s life."

Jessie said: "But Tara, she’s– she’s in good hands with Pete."

Could it be inferred? Possibly, but I just don't see it.

Thank you. I was stumped by that, too. I mean, you could argue of course Rick knew it already even if nobody told him. But there weren't people saying "Rick, killing Pete is a death sentence for Tara," and him thinking "I don't care I want sex!" It's much less cut-and-dried than that. Edited March 26, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Watcher0363]

Well then this makes Jessie the most noble of the ASZ originals. She is sacrificing her health and welfare for the greater good of the community. She knows the value of not just a doctor but a surgeon, so she helps Sam to protect himself. While she takes the occasional beating for the good of the community. Yes that is our Jessie the ultimate team player. She is truly worthy of our Rick. Long live the Ressie!!

[RedheadZombie]

So who among us likes to hear how incompetent we are? And these are the people who are living in the ZA in relative luxury. They are obviously a bit delusional but they've done well so far. You have to break these things gently...

 

Jimmy Carter told people things they didn't want to hear; look where it got him. 

 

It's all in the technique, and Rick used to be much better at it - think the farm.  I can't imagine what people would have thought, if Michonne, gun shot injured and carrying formula, walked into the prison and started "getting real" and just "speaking the truth".  Here's a woman who has survived a long time alone.  She has managed to walk miles while injured, and with a bloody injury, without being eaten.  She's also brought gifts.  She walks in, looks around with her nose in the air, and begins speaking in a condescending manner.  "What are you fools thinking?  Don't you know there are killers out there?  The only time your watch tower is manned is when people are having sex in it.  Your stockpile of weapons are stored outside in a barrel.  You threw an enemy outside without killing him, then acted shocked when he returned and caused the death of your wife and friend.  You do things that attract the walkers to your fences.  You sleep in cells that are easily locked, but choose to leave them open so you can be eaten by someone who turned at night.  You're fools and you don't deserve this prison that you fought and died to clear.  I know a guy who calls himself governor, and if you don't show some sense, we're taking over your sanctuary."

 

That would never fly - with the CDBs or with the fans.  Our gang has been just as stupid as ASZ, and very recently.  What they know they've discovered by making those mistakes themselves.  They weren't just born with this knowledge.  So much of this storyline is flawed, IMO, due to it feeling rushed.  And why is it rushed?  So we could waste time at Grady, only to lose Beth immediately, and Noah soon after.  They come into this community, and immediately start pretending, lying, misleading, and planning to take over.  I continue to be amazed that no one has the sense to just sit down with Deanna, tell her about the mistakes they've made, tell her about the human monsters they've survived, and explain why they seem so feral.  Preface it with sixty seconds of acknowledgment that Deanna's community has made it this far by doing things the way they've done, but that things are changing out there.  Humans are what we most need to worry about.  Fight the dead, fear the living, etc.

[kikismom]

In any event, according to his ask.fm interview, Chandler Riggs is on board with it.

[RedheadZombie]

Yep, they're just supremely lucky and for all our sakes, I hope that luck runs out in the finale. They obviously haven't had to forage/hunt for food to survive or truly rely on one another; they're all just living together, not surviving together. Even though the DC metro area was supposedly evacuated, I'm still surprised a giant herd hasn't passed through. It's been roughly 2 years, surely large populations from nearby cities would roam their way. 

 

Re-reading the transcript of Rick's rant and picturing those words being said by a calm and reasonable Rick, it takes on a whole new meaning. The ASZhats might actually agree with him. I don't think he's wrong but ranting as a bloody faced, gun waving Ricktator really hurts his credibility.

 

I love Rick and he's my favorite, but he's gotten too used to how he's treated by CDB.  He's earned that obedience and devotion over time.  He's just met these new people, won't explain why he's so extreme, and expects to get the same response.  I'm trying not to be blind to the plot by my love of Rick.  I think he's off the rails, and I think AL is playing him that way.  He's doing his getting up in someone's face, but not making eye contact thing - I think he even did it when he met Sam.  I think he's playing Rick as being in full blown PTSD, and that makes me sympathetic to the town folk.  I simply can't dismiss them all as pathetic fucking useless assholes because they've lucked into this situation.  Do we really think anyone in our little group would have walked away from ASZ and deliberately lived through what they've lived through?

[AndySmith]

I mean, you could argue of course Rick knew it already even if nobody told him. But there weren't people saying "Rick, killing Pete is a death sentence for Tara," and him thinking "I don't care I want sex!"

 

The thing is, this could present an interesting moral dilemma for Rick and Co...killing/exiling Pete for what he has done vs. what happens to Tara (and anyone else who gets injured down the line) if there isn't anyone to take care of her?

[Boofish]

Pete could simply refuse to help anyone regardless so it's a no win situation. Send him packing and take your chances. He don't have it in him to come back Governor style. Pete had all the power in ASZhat USA because he was surrounded by cowards. What if he don't feel like helping someone? What if he gave someone the wrong medicine on purpose? What if he got sick? An old deacon in my church once said "if you think you can't be replaced, die and watch what happens" 

[Raven1707]

Thank you for the work you do transcribing. Excellent!

 

At present, I have 509-515 in full; eventually, I'll go back and fill in the gaps for 501-508. And If I'm bored enough this summer, I might even try to catch up with Seasons 1-4.

 

Such an exciting life.

[Pete Martell]

The thing is, this could present an interesting moral dilemma for Rick and Co...killing/exiling Pete for what he has done vs. what happens to Tara (and anyone else who gets injured down the line) if there isn't anyone to take care of her?

 

This is the problem for me. There was no moral dilemma. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I said the comments about how killing Pete would kill Tara is because that's what I took from Deanna and Jessie. No, it wasn't said literally, but he's the only surgeon in town, the only doctor as far as we know, and he's taking care of her. And Rick had zero reaction. I don't even remember if he looked torn. 

 

Even one line like, "I don't want Tara to die but I'm not going to put up with this," would have worked for me. 

 

If they didn't want me to think Rick puts Jessie and her sons above everyone in his life by the way he acted in this episode, then the writing didn't do it for me here. 

 

I feel like they do want us to think he puts Jessie and her sons above everyone, and that this is dangerous, but also is supposed to be all-powerful and passionate and moving, or what have you. I think they are trying to sell this as both Rick over the edge and as a great love story. And the ambiguity of it all just drags Rick down, in my opinion, because I don't think the depth of these feelings have been earned in the writing. Forget Tara, or even the group as a whole - I no longer even think he would put Carl and Judith before Jessie and her family. And that's not a Rick I know.

[Evie]

I simply can't dismiss them all as pathetic fucking useless assholes because they've lucked into this situation. Do we really think anyone in our little group would have walked away from ASZ and deliberately lived through what they've lived through?

No way and the majority would have been just as useless. Like you said before, our group was just as stupid as ASZ in the beginning, and still pretty stupid recently. It took until some time during the eight months on the road after the farm fell for the group to figure out how to fight in formation and for everybody to learn to shoot. You covered their stupidity at the prison above.

[AndySmith]

I said "could", I didn't say it did ;)

 

We'll see if it is addressed in any way in the season finale.

[Pete Martell]

I understood what you said. I was just using your quote to respond to a few replies on the topic. Sorry. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Because I'm too lazy to search the thread for a link to it...........

 

Has the photo recap for Try come out yet?  Tried searching for it on Google (& imgur), and can't find it.   TIA.

[mandolin]

I don't think so.

[morgankobi]

I'm keeping my eye out. He averages Thursdays or Fridays.

[chlban]

I don't think went off the rails because he didn't get Jessie. That may have been the final thing but his rant on the ground was not "I want that woman and I want Pete dead so I can have her." It was "You people don't get it ". By extension, because they don't get it the town isn't safe, so Rick's family, both kids and extended, is not safe.

If it was really only about Jessie, why the speech?

I don't think the speech was as about Jessie but the fight clearly was. As I have said I dont like Rick. If he's worried about his family I assume he's free to leave. Whatever the Assists are doing wrong they seem to have something Rick wants. Maybe he could work on his approach. I don't screaming in the street when you have just had a fistfight with the husband of the chick you want to bang Is a really god way to go a out it. But thats just me. Like I said I am well aware of the Rick love.

Sorry my stupid phone doesnt like the name for the current Alexandria residents.

[chlban]

Oh yeah, the whole encounter was the straw that broke the camel's back. I just think he wouldn't have a) attacked Pete to begin with or b) waved his gun around talking about how the Alexandrians didn't get it, if there weren't a lot of things leading up to it. And the rant, that was not about Jessie at all. It was something that was in his head that puked out his mouth when he was past his limits.

But he didnt say it until he got in a fight with his new girlfriends husband. So any credibility he might have comes into question because of that. Well that and the fact that he sounded completely unhinged.

[Raven1707]

Random observations & assorted petty details in regards to “Try”:

 

• Deanna certainly holds herself in high regard: “You don't know what I see, Nicholas. And I see a great deal.” She’s also “exceptionally good at reading people,” and the people of Alexandria will accept Rick & Michonne as constables “Because I'm telling them to.”
• Ron is the third person on Jessie’s porch; Sam gets up and goes to Ron when Jessie reaches out to him.
• When Michonne asks “How is she?” (referring to Tara) Rosita responds: “Stable. Holding her own.”
• I suspect the J gun that Nicholas retrieves from its hiding place might actually be Aaron’s gun, which was taken from Aaron in “The Distance”:

 

Rick: You said he had a weapon? (Maggie gives Rick a gun which Rick looks at and tucks in the small of his back) There something you need?

 

• After Sasha takes out the first (smaller) group of walkers and Michonne & Rosita catch up to her, you can tell the actress is pregnant as she walks away from them. Between Bob’s jacket, that big old rifle with scope, and tower duty where only her upper body is visible, the show has done an excellent job at disguising Sonequa Martin-Green’s pregnancy.
• Given the way Jessie flinches and turns away when Pete raises his voice after she asks him to leave, it seems highly unlikely that she is the abuser in that family

• I didn't get the impression that Carol was smiling at any time during or after the fight.

 

Oh, and I loved my mom's tuna casserole.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Raven1707

[kikismom]

I thought it was funny that in the Houston Chronicle article about TWD they have nicknamed Nicholas "Joel Osteen".

[missy jo]

So far it seems like Aaron oversold Alexandria (for ex., the walls), but I don't think the Alexandrians are necessarily "useless." Who was failing and who was thriving?

 

I agree with you, RedHeadZombie (below).

 

Also, I wish they had skipped the entire Grady storyline in favor of more time with this one, which is so much more interesting to me. If the storyline is supposed to be that the Alexandrians are tolerating abuse in order to keep the peace and especially their doctor (and I'm not sure this is the case when you factor in the denials of the abuse victim), then that was covered at Grady with the abuse that was condoned there.

It's all in the technique, and Rick used to be much better at it - think the farm.  I can't imagine what people would have thought, if Michonne, gun shot injured and carrying formula, walked into the prison and started "getting real" and just "speaking the truth".  She walks in, looks around with her nose in the air, and begins speaking in a condescending manner.  That would never fly - with the CDBs or with the fans. 

 

Our gang has been just as stupid as ASZ, and very recently.  What they know they've discovered by making those mistakes themselves.  So much of this storyline is flawed, IMO, due to it feeling rushed.  And why is it rushed?  So we could waste time at Grady, only to lose Beth immediately, and Noah soon after.  They come into this community, and immediately start pretending, lying, misleading, and planning to take over.  I continue to be amazed that no one has the sense to just sit down with Deanna, tell her about the mistakes they've made, tell her about the human monsters they've survived, and explain why they seem so feral.  Preface it with sixty seconds of acknowledgment that Deanna's community has made it this far by doing things the way they've done, but that things are changing out there.  Humans are what we most need to worry about.  Fight the dead, fear the living, etc.

 

Edited March 27, 2015 by missy jo

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Random observations & assorted petty details in regards to “Try”:

 

• Deanna certainly holds herself in high regard: “You don't know what I see, Nicholas. And I see a great deal.” She’s also “exceptionally good at reading people,” and the people of Alexandria will accept Rick & Michonne as constables “Because I'm telling them to.”

• Ron is the third person on Jessie’s porch; Sam gets up and goes to Ron when Jessie reaches out to him.

• When Michonne asks “How is she?” (referring to Tara) Rosita responds: “Stable. Holding her own.”

• I suspect the J gun that Nicholas retrieves from its hiding place might actually be Aaron’s gun, which was taken from Aaron in “The Distance”:

 

Rick: You said he had a weapon? (Maggie gives Rick a gun which Rick looks at and tucks in the small of his back) There something you need?

 

• After Sasha takes out the first (smaller) group of walkers and Michonne & Rosita catch up to her, you can tell the actress is pregnant as she walks away from them. Between Bob’s jacket, that big old rifle with scope, and tower duty where only her upper body is visible, the show has done an excellent job at disguising Sonequa Martin-Green’s pregnancy.

• Given the way Jessie flinches and turns away when Pete raises his voice after she asks him to leave, it seems highly unlikely that she is the abuser in that family

• I didn't get the impression that Carol was smiling at any time during or after the fight.

 

Oh, and I loved my mom's tuna casserole.

 

I've liked and agreed with just about everything that you've been saying very recently... however, while it wasn't "smiling", per se, you definitely see a sort of 'now that's what I'm talking about!' upturn to her mouth when Rick starts his truthful-yet-crazed rant.

Edited March 27, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36