S05.E15: Try

[ikmccall]

I think Enid is a spy for the three that were exiled.  I think she's taking food to them. I don't think those three are part of the "W" carvings, though.  But I think they might show up in the finale around the same time as the new bad guys or at the beginning of season 6.

[kj4ever]

There is a huge difference between leaving people behind who have injuries that would most likely kill them  (puncture wounds to  Aiden), as compared to leaving uninjured or non terminally injured trapped people behind with hope of survival if rescued, but cutting and running anyway.  A season or two back, wasn't Tyrese at one point left behind to fight through walkers on his own after he exited a vehicle, while a few others ran into the woods?  Rick's little group didn't always have balls of steel.

 

Deanna's kid (Aiden) was a dead man either way.  Even if they could have gotten him back to the van, he most likely would have bled out before he got there.  Nicholas wasn't wrong for leaving him behind, though I wish they had put Aiden out of his misery so he wasn't eaten alive.  If they had left when Nicholas wanted to, perhaps Noah would still be alive.    This particular argument should have been made to Glenn by Nicholas.  Unfortunately, Glenn's diatribe was left unchallenged.  I hated Glenn's one sided argument.  Protagonists usually get the last word when it comes to the "moral" high ground.

 

On to Coral's little friend.  She has "spy" written all over her.  She had enough sense to know that Coral was following her into the woods.  I get the feeling that she is reporting the goings on in Alexandria to someone.

 

No way is Morgan the one that is putting a "M" or "W"  (depending upon how you look at at it) on those walkers.  That walker that was bound to the tree was at least a two man or woman operation.

 

I do wonder why those walkers are being branded, sort of like cattle. 

They didn't leave Tyreese.  Tyreese wouldn't leave the car like the litle bitch that he was.  They kept telling him COME ON and he just sat there like a big ass baby all sad that his girlfriend of two weeks died.

 

God I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Enid is bad news!

[Mu Shu]

I like the nine inch nails song but don't get why they played it.

I haven't listened to NIN forever. I thought it was some shitty college band Aidan was in. I guess they couldn't get Head Like a Hole. The lyrics are so fitting to that episode.

[Haleth]

I was thinking about Enid during the night.  It hasn't been answered yet what happened to her parents.  Were they with her when she arrived at Alexandria or were they killed before then, leaving her to find ASZ alone?  Are her mysterious journeys into the woods to suggest they were exiled?  If so, why?  Who is taking care of her now?  ("Taking care" loosely since no one knows she's leaving the ASZ.)  I don't think she's bad or evil or that any harm will come to Carl by following her, but she has an agenda that no one knows yet.  Is she connected to the W people and/or wolves?  I think we'll find out in the finale.

[Dr.Jacoby]

I think Andrew's a great actor, but this is HAM material, unplayable material. If anything I almost appreciate him playing it for what it is - ugly trash. I get the feeling he isn't all that thrilled with it either and a result is not playing up the "romance" that the script, and Gale Anne Hurd, the woman who plays Jessie, Chris Hardwick, et al. seem to be pushing.

The basic problem I have with it is using a woman's abuse to try to sell a love story, especially when her "savior" is utterly terrifying.

The show wants it both ways, and (to me) is failing miserably at both.

And above all else, the actors don't even have chemistry. (to me)

I think it's just a bad joke. I'm just not sure who the joke is on.

I really like AL as an actor (his reaction to Lori's death for eg hit me hard because it was spot-on to how I've seen people close to me reacting to a sudden death) but absolutely I get the impression his heart's not in this storyline and it shows in his acting. This whole storyline is the most boring through-route to manufacturing drama they could've taken, and there was so much potential in the weird dissonance between feral cdb and civilisation

[kikismom]

I also still don't have a sense how big this community is. What's the population, before CBD arrived? Are they in a majority, or highly outnumbered?

 

It's been upthread a couple times, but I understand how hard it would be to find! :-D ... 30 people before the arrival of CDB, then 45, then Aiden and Noah lost--- subtracting 2; we seem to be at 43.

Maybe I am just kind of twisted, but if Dr. Pete is running around beating his wife and possibly son, and just being a drunken asshole, but you cant get rid of him, why don't they just threaten to break his kneecaps or something? Then he would have a hell of a hard time attacking Jessie, but he would still be able to do surgery.

My neighbor/friend broke a kneecap last year. She was unable to walk, stand, do anything out of a wheelchair for a long time. As far as ability with her arms and hands, not so much because she was on heavy painkllers. That's why the mobsters would break kneecaps. It wasn't just excruciatingly painful but you'd never be the same again.

 

I think the Pete problem could be simply handled.  Just don't bring back liquor on the runs.  He's not going to go get it himself.  Are they supplying him with it to keep him happy?  They certainly aren't doing their group any favors by having a drunken physician around.  But then that would be too easy and wouldn't lay the groundwork for the dramatic Pete/Rick encounter.

They aren't gettin liquor on a run, they aren't getting pasta on a run, the definitely didn't get all those firearms on a run. Something curious in the state of Alexandria Safe Zone and I'm holding to my govt. bunker theory. But they have way too much of a lot of things for scavenging (crates?) Taking away the man's liquor is interesting---have you taken booze away from an alcoholic? We've had about a dozen alcoholics in my family. You just take the booze away, they don't feel better and go back to work the next morning. Hope no one needs surgery for the next few years, or decades, or never.

Yep, I know they were on the Walkers attacking the car but I wonder if they had time in such a stressful situation to go "Oh shit they all have a "W" on their forehead?"

 

Hey even camp dinner bell knew he was beating the crap out of Carol and they said as much.  Nothing was done until Shane needed an outlet for his anger.  Hmmm...coincidence?

Oh I don't mean with the picture of the walkers with W looking through the windshield that our folks discussed it; but to me I would remember that sight under those circumstances.

Yes, CDB knew and did nothing for Carol, the worst though was when Jim said you stay out of what goes on between a man and his wife or a family to them. Mostly true; but if you know about abuse or sexual abuse or elder abuse by kids to their parents---there's a few situations where it is not just their business, it's everyone's. That was a weird statement in that episode.

[tv echo]

I am tired of the Lady Macbeth egging on a conflicted Macbeth scenes - before, it was Lori whispering in Rick's ear that Shane is dangerous and then Rick ends up killing Shane.  Now it's Carol telling Rick that Pete has to die and/or Jessie emotionally manipulating Rick, and then Rick gets into a big fight with Pete.  If Jessie survives to next season, then we'll probably see Jessie prodding Rick about killing someone else at some point.

 

I'm still not convinced that Jessie isn't the abuser who's terrified her kids into lying about which parent is the abusive one, and that's why Sam went to Carol for comfort.

Edited March 24, 2015 by tv echo

[RainOnToosdays]

 

Thus why she spoke right up when Pete entered and she told him to leave. Because Rick was standing right there! She could have told Rick to leave instead and given the husband some bullshit story about why Rick was there and then taken some time to think things over and come up with a plan. But no, instead of defusing the situation she lit the fuse by trying to give Pete the boot right then, in front of Rick, knowing full well it would erupt into an opportunity for Rick to kill Pete.

 

 

I didn't see it nearly as sinister as what you're suggesting.  If Pete beats her regularly over what I'm guessing are minor things, how do you think he's going to handle her telling him to get out?  It seems like she made the smart call to ask him to leave while she had someone there to protect her just in case things got violent.

 

Pete didn't know Jessie and Rick had already been alone together in the garage. When Pete showed up on the stairs, Jessie and Rick weren't even standing very close together, IIRC. When Pete appeared, Jessie could have said something like "Hi Hon, Is Carl upstairs with Ron? Rick is here looking for him." Everyone proceeds with awkward small talk for a moment, Rick leaves. Crisis averted. Now Jessie has time (an hour - a day - anything longer than the blink-of-an-eye she actually decided in) to think things over and come up with a plan. Like, the next time Pete is passed out, just leave. Don't make a scene, don't give him any warning, just be gone when he gets up. 

 

Instead, as soon as Pete appeared Jessie says "No, Pete". No what? Now all Pete's danders are up and we've got a situation. And then she tells Pete to leave. That really galled me. If Jessie chose to leave, Pete had two options .. let her or physically stop her. Physically preventing her from leaving would be all kinds of wrong (unlawful restraint ... assault) thus Jesssie and anyone else would have the right to use whatever force necessary against him. It's all on Pete if it gets ugly. 

Ordering Pete to leave instead, that opens up a big ol' can of ugly from the get go. You know Pete is not going to leave voluntarily which means someone is going to have to physically make him. In this case Rick because he was the one there. And Rick (or any other man) being there makes it oh so much worse because now, to Pete, its not just about his wife defying him, it's also about losing face in front of another male. Which gaurantees he is not going to leave willingly and its going to get physical. 

 

Ordering Pete to leave instead of just leaving herself was all kinds of stupid. Either she's too stupid for words or she wanted it to get physical knowing Rick had designs on killing him. 

 

 

 

 

[AngelaHunter]

I couldn't help but wonder where Jessie gets the cigarettes this far into the ZA.  I'm pretty sure the community isn't growing tobacco and going on runs for cigarette papers, so what the hell was she smoking?

 

I must say I do feel that the Jessie/drunken abusive husband/damsel rescuer story is dangerously close to Lifetime Movie material. The only element that saves it from  total cliche is that the "rescuer" is a dangerous and violent lunatic.

 

Whoever mentioned Carl being an idiot for trapping himself in that tree with Enid: I was thinking the same thing when I was watching but I guess post-pubescent raging hormones are capable of erasing all common sense. Understandable, I suppose, since I don't remember being that age.

 

QuoteQuote

They didn't leave Tyreese.  Tyreese wouldn't leave the car like the litle bitch that he was.  They kept telling him COME ON and he just sat there like a big ass baby all sad that his girlfriend of two weeks died.

 

Right! They begged him to come and he sat with an extreme "Carry me!" sulky face on.To this day we haven't seen a character so useless who lived so long.

Edited March 24, 2015 by AngelaHunter

[diebartdie]

 

Taking away the man's liquor is interesting---have you taken booze away from an alcoholic? We've had about a dozen alcoholics in my family. You just take the booze away, they don't feel better and go back to work the next morning. Hope no one needs surgery for the next few years, or decades, or never.

quoting kikismom there, this is so so so true. People that are addicted to substances are different from people not addicted on a cellular level. I worked at a hospital for 12 years and probably once per month I saw a tray of food going to a patient with a small can of generic BEER for them. I asked about it and apparently once you get to a certain point if you dont get your particular drug, you'll literally die, the body actually needs it to live. With heroin, quite often junkies get to a point where they dont get high at all off heroin, the dose just works to stave off the pain and this type of addict can usually maintain a job and a "normal" life. I guess Pete is being portrayed like the type of alky that requires his booze just to be "normal" and if that's the case he would be driven to extremes if he had to go through withdrawal (and they live in a world where naltrexone is probably more rare than hen's teeth). Pete would be drinking aftershave, sterno, rubbing alcohol, anything at all to get right and every step of the way he would get more and more violent and unhinged. What a sad storyline (including the abuse of Jessie) and one deserving more respect, even from a zombie show.

[Pete Martell]

I couldn't help but wonder where Jessie gets the cigarettes this far into the ZA.  I'm pretty sure the community isn't growing tobacco and going on runs for cigarette papers, so what the hell was she smoking?

 

I could see them being found on a run, or someone who died had them, and she pocketed the pack.

 

I must say that her sneaking a smoke was the only time in these 4 (it feels like 40) episodes that she interested me. I wish we saw more of that Jessie.

[Sofie Fatale]

I would like to purchase one ticket on the Rick train.

There is a part of me that hoped Michonne knocked Rick out to keep someone in the crowd from killing him or kicking him out on his ass right there on the spot.

I'm right there with ya, and I totally think that Michonne clocked his ass to buy time. I thought the flashback to her katana wielding days was interesting and I still think she will side with Rick when the shizz hits the fan.

[KarateKate]

[...]

Perhaps if, alongside the phony casserole left at the door, Carol had a conversation with Deanna that she is very sorry for her loss and that she understands because she too lost a child.  Even worse, she had to see the zombified corpse of her little girl.  She might also implore Deanna to do more about abusive husband Pete, since she too was a battered wife and that Pete will only escalate.

[...]

Seriously, why aren't conversations being had?

[...]

That's the definite fault of the writer (though maybe Kirkman stuck her with that dynamic).  It's everyone's least-favorite dynamic; screenwriter convenience.  where all it would take to divert a disaster, is: for two people to be talking to each other.

 

But Carol's in a place where she CAN'T have that conversation. She has been carefully crafting, from first glimpse, a screen as a Holly Homemaker that misses her loving husband, and has been brought along with protectors simply for her upbeat nurturing of the group. She's just like you, ASZ-ers! Do you have a Junior League? And Mrs. Neidermeyer and I will have so much fun dreaming about pasta makers and espresso machines! 

OK, I guess Carol COULD break this and go talk to Deanna, but she has to feel that the benefit would outweigh the risk. So she looked for other ways of achieving the ends she has in mind. 

As someone pretending to have a pre-ZA softness, she shows sympathy in the "pre-ZA way" to a woman trying to run a pre-ZA community.

In the case of Jessie and Pete, she is sympathetic - to a point. She would sooner stab Pete in the eye than smile at him, but she's not risking her story, since that is her "weapon" that she didn't have to give up. Carol's not unfeeling, but when push comes to shove she won't put herself and her family at risk. Not even indirectly by giving up an advantage. 

And Jessie? She may be nice, but she's not family.

 

I don't think Carol meant that threat to Sam at all.  She was just trying to scare him silent.  She wasn't expecting him to attach himself to her.  It reminds me of that movie About A Boy.   Watch out, Sam, or I'll tie you to a tree so you're torn apart by walkers.  Sam:  Can we make cookies?

 

Now she's trying to protect him, however you feel about her methodology.  Obviously, she doesn't want to murder him.

What a great connection. You nailed it.

[kikismom]

As I posted last week, I think Maggie, Glenn and Michonne are the new moral centers for our group. Glenn or Maggie could emerge as the new Rick. Michonne has been portrayed as less a leader and more of a power lieutenant.

I think though that Michonne may not want to be leader of these people, she still seems conflicted by the more and more depressing menu of group attitudes. Perhaps she will start her own group.

 

I couldn't help but wonder where Jessie gets the cigarettes this far into the ZA.  I'm pretty sure the community isn't growing tobacco and going on runs for cigarette papers, so what the hell was she smoking?

 

Pete was smoking even earlier; if fact the first thing I thought in the porch scene was that Daryl would like one thing about ASZ---they have cigarettes. (Oh, but Daryl, we only have menthol. Daryl: Pussies!!!)

quoting kikismom there, this is so so so true. People that are addicted to substances are different from people not addicted on a cellular level. I worked at a hospital for 12 years and probably once per month I saw a tray of food going to a patient with a small can of generic BEER for them. I asked about it and apparently once you get to a certain point if you dont get your particular drug, you'll literally die, the body actually needs it to live. With heroin, quite often junkies get to a point where they dont get high at all off heroin, the dose just works to stave off the pain and this type of addict can usually maintain a job and a "normal" life. I guess Pete is being portrayed like the type of alky that requires his booze just to be "normal" and if that's the case he would be driven to extremes if he had to go through withdrawal (and they live in a world where naltrexone is probably more rare than hen's teeth). Pete would be drinking aftershave, sterno, rubbing alcohol, anything at all to get right and every step of the way he would get more and more violent and unhinged. What a sad storyline (including the abuse of Jessie) and one deserving more respect, even from a zombie show.

 

Thank you. That is valuable first-hand information. I've seen it, and people who haven't should read in the book Papa John about the harrowing ride with the leader of the Mamas and the Papas lying on the floor of the car while his friend Scott McKenzie (San Francisco-Flowers In Your Hair :-0) is trying to drive and the doctors were telling them on the phone keep him drinking don't stop drinking!!! , and him guzzling from bottles of vodka---not miniatures, the big ones) just to stay alive till they arrived. )  That's so horrible to think of what the body and the brain become.

[chlban]

Lock her up. Sedate her. I'm not saying I disagreed with carols solution. I'm saying if she could be that ruthless with Lizzie, scaring Sam and possibly doing what she said seems not that far of a reach.

I never, for one second, thought Carol would actually DO what she threatened Sam with. She was scaring him, nothing else. Yeah, she went a lot farther than I would have, and I don't especially like kids I am not related to, but then I don' t live in that world either.

 

Lizzie murdered her sister, was planning to murder Judith and thought Walkers made ideal playmates. In the world we live in, locking her up would certainly be the choice made (well minus the walker playmates, but you get my drift) . But again, Carol doesn't live in this world and that is not a viable option in the ZA.

 

She would not really harm a child for following her to get her to give him cookies. I think it's pretty clear even Sam didn't take the threat seriously. Because had that been me, I wouldn't walk on the same side of the street as Carol, and he's still bugging her for cookies. And a gun. 

She did what had to be done. Even softie Tyrese knew that.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

There is a part of me that hoped Michonne knocked Rick out to keep someone in the crowd from killing him or kicking him out on his ass right there on the spot.

 

Yes, or to keep Rick from shooting someone or finishing off the Good Doctor. We know he's lost his inhibitions about killing and it doesn't take much to set him off.

 

Glenn was so right when he told Rick they had to make this work, but I don't think Rick is capable of living that kind of life anymore. He's like a soldier who suffers such severe PTSD that he can't live in "normal" society anymore or adhere to its conventions.

[chlban]

Maybe I'm dead wrong but perhaps she's one of those women who cannot be without a man - no matter how marginal he may be -  for one minute and before she gives Dr. Drunky the boot she needed to know if she had a backup waiting in the wings?

Lord I detest that type of woman. I guess I just assumed come the Apocalypse they would all be gone, but I guess if you can live in your little world in Stepford.......uh I mean Alexandria.

[diebartdie]

Why was Jessie being so sneaky about smoking when her PHYSICIAN husband also smokes like a chimbly?

[kikismom]

 I don't think Rick is capable of living that kind of life anymore. He's like a soldier who suffers such severe PTSD that he can't live in "normal" society anymore or adhere to its conventions.

Although it has been interpreted as Rick being glad the wall was between him and the walkers, I thought the wall scene might have been about him liking the sound of a walker outside, liking the knowledge that they were still out there.

The wall meant he could engage when he wanted, or not. I can't help thinking of the scene at the dump when he doesn't even ask where Carl came from but they take turns killing walkers and when Carl wants to use the pole to bash a head Rick watches and smiles and nods.

[EDTV]

So Pete is beating his wife so bad but there are no bruises at all on her or the son, and she walks into Rick's house with him shirtless and cuts his hair?....lol. Sorry but that makes zero sense. She does not act scared or abused or look it in any way. 

 

And the show keeps wanting to show us how cowardly and incompetent the AZT community is, yet they have done so much better than anyone else it seems. And their town was picture perfect... so much so that they can play video games and make sculptures and have cocktail parties...until the "brave" CDB group showed up... now everything seems to be a mess...hmmm

 

this storyline just makes no sense so far.

[kikismom]

Why was Jessie being so sneaky about smoking when her PHYSICIAN husband also smokes like a chimbly?

Abusive men are about power and control; they do a lot of things that no one else is allowed. They want steak for dinner and the rest of the family eats hamburger helper. They buy themselves big boy toys like boats and 4-wheelers but the kids get a pair of socks for Christmas. They smoke, or drink, or go out with the boys but if she wanted to go with the girls---for something as innocent as a tupperware party--- he'd accuse her of going to meet a man or "flaunt" herself.

It's privilege---abusive men like to remind the woman that he gets to choose for himself, but he also gets to make choices for her.

[wmdekooning]

Speaking of Andrew Lincoln I just can't with his true voice. I don't see him as this prim and proper (which he may not be) Brit, playing cricket and having a brew down at the local pub. It's just too weird!!!

 

When I hear Andrew Lincoln speak in his regular/true voice, I think of it as his "member of Coldplay voice", even though I remember him from "Teachers" before seeing him in TWD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhE0qdJT-Ek

His Rick Grimes makes more of an impression than his character on "Teachers"...

Edited March 24, 2015 by wmdekooning

[peach]

Glenn was so right when he told Rick they had to make this work, but I don't think Rick is capable of living that kind of life anymore. He's like a soldier who suffers such severe PTSD that he can't live in "normal" society anymore or adhere to its conventions.

 

Maybe to a point, but if they were guarding that place correctly and not acting Pollyanna about the real world, I feel like he could manage okay.  I was feelin' him when he was looking around at people walking obliviously through the neighborhood without a care in the world, and someone sitting with their BACK to the gate, reading.  And he had to take looooong, slow, deep breaths before he just started screaming obscenities or something. 

 

He got a lot more edgy, IMO, after Deanna's admission that they didn't keep someone in the guard tower.  I mean...if someone has to explain to her how stupid that is, she's never gonna get it anyway.  I think that's what he was trying to tell Glenn at the beginning of the episode.  Deanna doesn't get it, and won't get it, because she doesn't want to get it. 

Why was Jessie being so sneaky about smoking when her PHYSICIAN husband also smokes like a chimbly?

Because double standards are a way of life to an abuser.

[diebartdie]

Oh I understand that kikismom but in the story it wasn't pitched like Pete forbid Jessie from smoking, it was pitched like she has this bad habit and she doesnt want Pete, Sam or Ron to know (which always cracks me up about tobacco users! You stink, your breath stinks, your cloths stink, your hair stinks of tobacco but you go right on denying you're a tobacco user!). Edit because apparently peach sees it the same way kikismom sees it, I'll rewatch the episode soon, see what Jessie actually says.

Edited March 24, 2015 by diebartdie

[AndySmith]

Is the Reddit recap up yet? It should definitely be more entertaining than the actual episode.

[kikismom]

So Pete is beating his wife so bad but there are no bruises at all on her or the son, and she walks into Rick's house with him shirtless and cuts his hair?....lol.

IF YOU DO NOT WANT COMICS----EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT SOMETHING UPCOMING BUT SOMETHING ALREADY OVER WITH---DO NOT OPEN SPOILER TAG>

the writers really screwed up with a character switch-

in the comic Jessie does not cut his hair. Olivia does.

(giggle). When Rick first comes to town he sees a little

boy with a black eye who says he got hurt by a baseball,

but Rick is suspicious. When there is a party for new

people and they have dinner, Rick notices that Jessie

doesn't speak and seems cowed by her husband. It

progresses from there. The TV show wanted to

speed things up and cut out at least 3 scenes leading to

the abuse confrontation. It was the wrong choice.

Now it is just weird. But I am surprised that people

don't fault the writers for a clunky storyline, they are

laying hate on the Jessie character, or the actress.

[chlban]

I am tired of the Lady Macbeth egging on a conflicted Macbeth scenes - before, it was Lori whispering in Rick's ear that Shane is dangerous and then Rick ends up killing Shane.  Now it's Carol telling Rick that Pete has to die and/or Jessie emotionally manipulating Rick, and then Rick gets into a big fight with Pete.  If Jessie survives to next season, then we'll probably see Jessie prodding Rick about killing someone else at some point.

 

I'm still not convinced that Jessie isn't the abuser who's terrified her kids into lying about which parent is the abusive one, and that's why Sam went to Carol for comfort.

THAT would actually be an interesting twist. Unfortunately my faith in the writing doesn't extend that far. I think the whole storyline is predictable to anyone who has ever watched a Lifetime movie or two. Pete is a drunk and he beats his wife and probably secondarily his kids. Rick is riding in on his white horse (well, imaginary white horse, anyway, horses don't fare well in the ZA it seems) to save her. Something will happen that will REQUIRE that he kill Pete. Then  they will live happily ever after for about 10 minutes. After which we will return to our regularly scheduled programming and Jessie will get killed or worse, kidnapped (so it will NEVER end) by the Unfair wolves, or eaten by Walkers (my personal choice). Then Rick will go crazy. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

[EDTV]

IF YOU DO NOT WANT COMICS----EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT SOMETHING UPCOMING BUT SOMETHING ALREADY OVER WITH---DO NOT OPEN SPOILER TAG>

the writers really screwed up with a character switch-

in the comic Jessie does not cut his hair. Olivia does.

(giggle). When Rick first comes to town he sees a little

boy with a black eye who says he got hurt by a baseball,

but Rick is suspicious. When there is a party for new

people and they have dinner, Rick notices that Jessie

doesn't speak and seems cowed by her husband. It

progresses from there. The TV show wanted to

speed things up and cut out at least 3 scenes leading to

the abuse confrontation. It was the wrong choice.

Now it is just weird. But I am surprised that people

don't fault the writers for a clunky storyline, they are

laying hate on the Jessie character, or the actress.

i dont read the comics but i do hope that this isn't as it seems... because the whole idea that he's been beating his family for years and that the AZT are all cowards and incompetent just doesn't make sense... so i hope they are pulling one over on us.

 

maybe this is their "audition"...

Edited March 24, 2015 by EDTV

[Samx]

I think we can cross Morgan off the "W" carver list. That woman was tied to the tree pre-turn (as illustrated by her insides becoming zombie chow) and I don't believe for one second that Morgan has suddenly become a cold blooded killer of humans. Also as someone has said, that True Detective-style handiwork would at least be a two person job. 

 

Morgan was all about "clearing" the walkers, not simply making his mark and letting them roam the countryside. I think the Unfair Wolves are behind it and I hope we get an answer in the finale. 

 

I also don't think that Carol would ever actually follow through with her threat to Sam. Even though she killed Lizzie, she didn't take any joy in doing so. She was visibly upset and crying when she pulled that trigger. Carol talks a tough game, and I think she IS dangerous, but I don't think she's lost her humanity yet. It's obvious she wants to protect Sam. As for her getting Rick to do the job, I took it as 1) she didn't want to pull a Karen again and get banished, and 2) Rick is "the law" round these parts  so it's his job to do those types of things (although I agree with Deanna that you can't just go around executing people without some imminent threat to life - if Jessie, Sam or whomever killed Pete in self-defense, then okay, but you can't just kill the dude when he's taking a drunken stroll around the neighborhood).

[kikismom]

When I hear Andrew Lincoln speak in his regular/true voice, I think of it as his "member of Coldplay voice", even though I remember him from "Teachers" before seeing him in TWD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhE0qdJT-Ek

His Rick Grimes makes more of an impression than his character on "Teachers"...

I hate his regular voice. I love that you call it "Coldplay voice" because his wife is friends with Gwyneth Paltrow. Which, to me, is a bad sign.

 

Oh I understand that kikismom but in the story it wasn't pitched like Pete forbid Jessie from smoking, it was pitched like she has this bad habit and she doesnt want Pete, Sam or Ron to know (which always cracks me up about tobacco users! You stink, your breath stinks, your cloths stink, your hair stinks of tobacco but you go right on denying you're a tobacco user!). Edit because apparently peach sees it the same way kikismom sees it, I'll rewatch the episode soon, see what Jessie actually says.

But when it was "pitched" Rick the Constable was around. Just like Carol "pitched" her dislocated arm to the emergency room staff as falling down the stairs---3 times.

[nachomama]

Until they showed the girl tied to the tree with a W carved into her forehead, I rather assumed whoever was doing this was basically playing frankenstein with the walkers. Cutting them up or collecting torsos, whathaveyou, it hadn't occurred to me that he was carving W's on healthy, living people, then either killing them or letting them be killed. The one tied to the tree I think was an escalation or a new form of torture but clearly it's different than Aiden and his pals or the governor just messing with zombies for sport. Obviously it's gonna be an evil with a capital E but I feel silly for being so naive. haha

[peach]

Oh I understand that kikismom but in the story it wasn't pitched like Pete forbid Jessie from smoking, it was pitched like she has this bad habit and she doesnt want Pete, Sam or Ron to know (which always cracks me up about tobacco users! You stink, your breath stinks, your cloths stink, your hair stinks of tobacco but you go right on denying you're a tobacco user!). Edit because apparently peach sees it the same way kikismom sees it, I'll rewatch the episode soon, see what Jessie actually says.

I don't remember what was said, I only vaguely remember her smoking a cigarette.  I'm just saying that is generally true.  What's good for the gander is NEVER good for the goose.  But the show probably made nonsense out of that, too.  lol  I agree totally with this post.  Smokers aren't fooling anyone.  But Pete probably thinks people don't know when he's drunk.

[NurseGiGi]

It's been upthread a couple times, but I understand how hard it would be to find! :-D ... 30 people before the arrival of CDB, then 45, then Aiden and Noah lost--- subtracting 2; we seem to be at 43.

My neighbor/friend broke a kneecap last year. She was unable to walk, stand, do anything out of a wheelchair for a long time. As far as ability with her arms and hands, not so much because she was on heavy painkllers. That's why the mobsters would break kneecaps. It wasn't just excruciatingly painful but you'd never be the same again.

 

They aren't gettin liquor on a run, they aren't getting pasta on a run, the definitely didn't get all those firearms on a run. Something curious in the state of Alexandria Safe Zone and I'm holding to my govt. bunker theory. But they have way too much of a lot of things for scavenging (crates?) Taking away the man's liquor is interesting---have you taken booze away from an alcoholic? We've had about a dozen alcoholics in my family. You just take the booze away, they don't feel better and go back to work the next morning. Hope no one needs surgery for the next few years, or decades, or never.

 

Yes, my father was an alchoholic, my brother was an alcoholic and drug addict and I've dealt with quite a few of both over the years.  My point is it's better to let him go through DT's over a few days than to let a drunken abusive man provide the only medical care available.

[Boofish]

Maybe (just maybe) she wanted Rick to say no because she hadn't felt special or like she mattered to anyone in a long time. I don't know too many women (or men) that have not swooned at least once in their life when someone said "I've never loved/like/cared for anyone the way I love/like/care for you." In this story she is battered and more than likely broken and saw no escape other than death beyond the walls. Someone comes along and FINALLY offers to help HER all she has to do is say "yes." I think she needed him to say no and he sensed that even though I don't believe for one minute Rick wouldn't help any woman he saw being abused. I honestly think Carol would have had "fresh bruises" one time if Rick had been there in the beginning

[kikismom]

i dont read the comics but i do hope that this isn't as it seems... because the whole idea that he's been beating his family for years and that the AZT are all cowards and incompetent just doesn't make sense... so i hope they are pulling one over on us.

Well, it makes sense to me, YMMV. 

The majority of people at Woodbury were there to survive in comfort and the illusion that they could live the way the world use to be.

We know what the Governor  was doing. But look at Milton---nice guy who knew what was going on really---he was a coward about doing something to stop it. He wasn't the only one. Andrea knew a lot but she didn't take several opportunities to oppose it. Even Martinez wasn't thrilled but after he lost his wife and kids Woodbury was the only option.

 

There were people at Terminus who were just going to stay alive no matter what they had to turn a blind eye to---and that wasn't drunken hitting---that was cannibalism!

 

Even when Rick went all Ricktator at the waterfall finale of Season 2----the other CDB were shocked, they were not comfortable with leaving Andrea, or crazy Rick not wanting to hear their ideas etc. But they stayed. And they didn't argue, much less stand up to it.

 

The entire set-up at Alexandria---like Woodbury only better---is seductive. Do you want to rock the boat? Have we yet seen what happens when people do? We haven't but the Alexandrians have! What exactly happens when people are exiled? Is Enid there because there's a rule that if you interfere and are exiled you won't get to take your children?

There's a problem with judging something when we have so little information----I suspect we will discover there are dirty secrets in their past.

[kikismom]

Until they showed the girl tied to the tree with a W carved into her forehead, I rather assumed whoever was doing this was basically playing frankenstein with the walkers. Cutting them up or collecting torsos, whathaveyou, it hadn't occurred to me that he was carving W's on healthy, living people, then either killing them or letting them be killed. The one tied to the tree I think was an escalation or a new form of torture but clearly it's different than Aiden and his pals or the governor just messing with zombies for sport. Obviously it's gonna be an evil with a capital E but I feel silly for being so naive. haha

"Ooopsie--I just thought you were collecting torsos but now i see you were tying naked girls to trees to gang-rape and leave them to be eaten alive. Imagine how embarrassed I am."  JK!

It's okay, it's not like any of us have real-life experience with zombie mutilation.

[peach]

99% of us would accept almost anything to stay safe and fed.  If reality is anything to go by.

[diebartdie]

Enid isn't from ASZ, Enid is from outside, she's only been inside for a few months. We still dont know what her story is but we do know she was an outsider like Coral.

[chlban]

Well, it makes sense to me, YMMV. 

The majority of people at Woodbury were there to survive in comfort and the illusion that they could live the way the world use to be.

We know what the Governor  was doing. But look at Milton---nice guy who knew what was going on really---he was a coward about doing something to stop it. He wasn't the only one. Andrea knew a lot but she didn't take several opportunities to oppose it. Even Martinez wasn't thrilled but after he lost his wife and kids Woodbury was the only option.

 

There were people at Terminus who were just going to stay alive no matter what they had to turn a blind eye to---and that wasn't drunken hitting---that was cannibalism!

 

Even when Rick went all Ricktator at the waterfall finale of Season 2----the other CDB were shocked, they were not comfortable with leaving Andrea, or crazy Rick not wanting to hear their ideas etc. But they stayed. And they didn't argue, much less stand up to it.

 

The entire set-up at Alexandria---like Woodbury only better---is seductive. Do you want to rock the boat? Have we yet seen what happens when people do? We haven't but the Alexandrians have! What exactly happens when people are exiled? Is Enid there because there's a rule that if you interfere and are exiled you won't get to take your children?

There's a problem with judging something when we have so little information----I suspect we will discover there are dirty secrets in their past.

Of course none of us know Enid's story yet, but I guess I, like many others it seems, think it's highly likely her parents were among the exiles. However my take on it was not that they didn't "get to take" the children , although that is certainly a viable and even likely possibility. I was thinking more in terms of  "you must go, but we will allow your children to stay". I even thought about what I would do as a mother faced with leaving my child in a safe place (it at least seems everyone there thinks it's safe) where they had a chance to live or taking them with me. Sophie's choice post ZA.

 

I could totally see Deanna making that decision. You go, but the child can stay. Hopefully we'll find out Sunday which is true or if Enid is even the child of the exiles.   

[kikismom]

Enid isn't from ASZ, Enid is from outside, she's only been inside for a few months. We still dont know what her story is but we do know she was an outsider like Coral.

Yes...but did she come inside alone?

 

Eric and Deanna have talked about how they haven't had new people in months...why doesn't anyone say who the last new people are? I would think it would have been helpful to say here is so-and-so, they are the most recent to join us and they can tell you about getting to know this place.

Enid may be one, but she might have come in with others.

[kj4ever]

Lord I detest that type of woman. I guess I just assumed come the Apocalypse they would all be gone, but I guess if you can live in your little world in Stepford.......uh I mean Alexandria.

 

I don't think we can make that assumption.  Jessie had no back up.  For all she knew they'd force her back with him since they didn't mind him beating her to begin with.  I'd want backup too.  It's smart.

Why was Jessie being so sneaky about smoking when her PHYSICIAN husband also smokes like a chimbly?

She said she didn't want her boys to know.

[catrox14]

 

I don't think we can make that assumption.  Jessie had no back up.  For all she knew they'd force her back with him since they didn't mind him beating her to begin with.  I'd want backup too.  It's smart.

 

I have a hard time believing that the entire community is willing to protect Pete because he's a surgeon. Surely there must be or has been ONE person who will speak up Jessie unless they did speak up and were exiled.

[Sofie Fatale]

Where's jessie's older son? As a teen just hitting manhood I could see him being torn between wanting to take on his father AND being terrified of him. Although maybe he is too "weak" as Carl implied earlier...

It's interesting that we've only seen the younger son be proactive With trying to get a gun.

[kj4ever]

Where's jessie's older son? As a teen just hitting manhood I could see him being torn between wanting to take on his father AND being terrified of him. Although maybe he is too "weak" as Carl implied earlier...

It's interesting that we've only seen the younger son be proactive With trying to get a gun.

Men like Pete like control.  They get way worse when they are not feeling like they are in control.  I'm sure he has the older kid scared to death.  Pete is like a freakin' linebacker. 

[kikismom]

Men like Pete like control.  They get way worse when they are not feeling like they are in control.  I'm sure he has the older kid scared to death.  Pete is like a freakin' linebacker. 

I'm not even sure someone like Shane could win a fight with Pete. I would like to see him attempt it though.

[kj4ever]

I'm not even sure someone like Shane could win a fight with Pete. I would like to see him attempt it though.

And just because he's a doctor doesn't mean he's soft.  When Jessie was trying to explain to Rick in the garage she said "He's been through a lot of stuff". 

[Pete Martell]

I'm not even sure someone like Shane could win a fight with Pete. I would like to see him attempt it though.

 

That would probably be very hot.

 

They can just roll back to season 2. 

 

Lori glares at Pete, then Jessie, and hisses, "Do something!" to Rick.

 

Andrea gets confused and shoots both Shane and Pete in the head.

 

Dale shakes his head and looks forlorn.

[Ocean Chick]

considering how long Rick's been single and how long he's refused to consider any other woman or anything amatory, I think we'd have to see "her" as magic,

 

 

Judith isn't even close to walking yet, from what we've seen, so it's been less than a year since Lori died.  Which doesn't seem long in terms of Rick being single.  It just feels longer since it's been 3 years our time.  My brother's wife died over 2 years ago and he's not yet ready to consider dating again, so I'd give Rick a pass on looking at looking for sex or love up to this point.  Jessie might just be "magic" though to get Rick's attention so quickly.  He just doesn't seem to be the type to fall in love/lust at first sight.  Or so I'd have thought.

 

As to the smirking that some people said they saw Carol doing during the fight - I watched again last night and what I saw was Carol compressing her lips, just like my mom used to do when she was under stress.  Fearful or angry.  I think Carol was wanting to step in and help beat up Pete, but couldn't, due to her having to stay "in character" as the Junior League mom she was playing.

 

I'm still not convinced that Jessie isn't the abuser who's terrified her kids into lying about which parent is the abusive one, and that's why Sam went to Carol for comfort.

 

 

I think Sam went to Carol for protection because he knows his mom can't do anything to protect him from his father (other than put bolts on his door), because she can't even protect herself from him.  But Sam can sense that Carol probably CAN take on his father, and take him down.  I'll bet he can imagine Carol tying his father to a tree and leaving him for walker bait.

 

Speaking of which (the threat), I still don't think Carol was trying to imply that she was going to do that to Sam if he told, but meant that if Sam told anyone that she'd taken the guns, she'd be locked up or exiled and wouldn't be around to help save him when outsiders came to take over ASZ.  And that the outsiders would do that to him - come in the middle of the night and kidnap him and leave him to die in agony.  Notice that she NEVER said she'd do it - just that it would happen.  I think the writers/directors left it ambiguous so that Sam/the audience would think she was saying she'd do it.  Obviously Sam doesn't think she'd do it to him, as he's clearly bonded with her and looks to her for protection.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Ocean Chick

[kj4ever]

IF YOU DO NOT WANT COMICS----EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT SOMETHING UPCOMING BUT SOMETHING ALREADY OVER WITH---DO NOT OPEN SPOILER TAG>

the writers really screwed up with a character switch-

in the comic Jessie does not cut his hair. Olivia does.

(giggle). When Rick first comes to town he sees a little

boy with a black eye who says he got hurt by a baseball,

but Rick is suspicious. When there is a party for new

people and they have dinner, Rick notices that Jessie

doesn't speak and seems cowed by her husband. It

progresses from there. The TV show wanted to

speed things up and cut out at least 3 scenes leading to

the abuse confrontation. It was the wrong choice.

Now it is just weird. But I am surprised that people

don't fault the writers for a clunky storyline, they are

laying hate on the Jessie character, or the actress.

I agree 100%.  As long as you aren't blonde or pretty it is the writer's fault.  If you are blonde and pretty well you are a horrible character and actress...lol

[kikismom]

Judith isn't even close to walking yet, from what we've seen, so it's been less than a year since Lori died.  Which doesn't seem long in terms of Rick being single.  It just feels longer since it's been 3 years our time.  My brother's wife died over 2 years ago and he's not yet ready to consider dating again, so I'd give Rick a pass on looking at looking for sex or love up to this point.  Jessie might just be "magic" though to get Rick's attention so quickly.  He just doesn't seem to be the type to fall in love/lust at first sight.  Or so I'd have thought.

Lori needed 2 weeks to get busy with Shane.