S01.E10: Divine Move

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Forces come to a head when Ramse does what it takes to protect his newfound family, leaving Cole to deal with the aftermath.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

 

Sneak peek:

[Chaos Theory]

Well Ramse just splintered into villain territory didn't he?   I am thinking now he is one of the 12 Monkeys.  Hell he might be the monkey in charge.

 

Risking the world for the one person that matters.  Is it right or wrong?  The question of the series

 

Cassie has had an interesting arc this season.  Mainly meaning she picked up a gun pretty quick although she hasn't killed a dude yet.  Still we are only in season one.  Plenty of time..    Follow blindly Cassie.  

 

And finally "Someone, someday will judge us for what we have done."

[Shriekingeel]

Lots of what the late Roger Ebert called Idiot Plot was required to get Ramse time travelling: the guy at the camp with a hatchet charging a bunch of guys with guns, 3 armed men letting Ramse get the better of them, etc.

But I love how fast-moving the show is, how much happens in the course of one episode.

[Rhetorica]

This episode just didn't work for me. I had no investment in Ramse's family and cannot buy he went to the dark side so quickly. I did, however, enjoy the monkey sisters.

[ottoDbusdriver]

This episode just didn't work for me. I had no investment in Ramse's family and cannot buy he went to the dark side so quickly. I did, however, enjoy the monkey sisters.

 

Interesting to see that Jennifer Goines survived the virus and its multiple mutations to lead an all-female wagon-train cult -- still not sure what to make of her giving Ramse the medallion she stole from the Florist/Pallid Man.

 

Maybe Ramse's trip to the past will snap him out of the dark path that he has taken and make him realize what Jones is doing is the only choice to stop the virus.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I was kind of disappointed in this episode.  I'm not against the main idea of Ramse turning on them, but it just felt rushed, I really didn't get invested in his wife and kid, and I found it hard to believe he could sneak in that easily.  Did they just send all the guards to the front door?  If I was Jones, as soon as the alarm went off, I would be posting at least a couple of guards at each entrance to the core.  Hopefully, him in 1987 will be good, but I will miss the Cole/Ramse friendship, and Aaron Stanford/Kirk Acevedo's chemistry.

 

Thought Cassie's reaction to Cole's return was perfect.  On one hand, a part of her was happy to see him again.  But at the same time, you could see how much it was killing her, knowing this meant the plague was still going to happen.  She really did look so tired and emotionally drained in this episode (that hangover probably wasn't helping!)  For some reason though, I was a bit more annoyed with Aaron.  I get his frustrations, but I just didn't get what his plan was going to be.  He seemed to think Cole didn't know what he was doing, but he still knows the virus is coming, so... what did he want to do?  Just give up?  Try to find it himself?  Not seeing either of those working out very well.

 

Ha!  Jennifer is not only alive in the future, but has formed her own all-female cult, with the 12 Monkeys symbol as their emblem.  She is so nutty. I kind of love her for it.

 

RIP, Max.

 

Next week should be good though.  If we're going to 1987, that should mean we'll see Leland again.

[wanderingstar]

"You're right. Your future's pretty bleak if you're all they've got."

I sort of wanted Aaron to drop the mic and leave the room after he said this to Cole.

 

I think it's my Kirk Acevedo love, but I'm having a hard time hating on Ramse for going to the dark side. I totally get his point of view.

 

That Daughters cult was kind of awesome. I found myself wanting to join. I know, I know.

 

I like when Cassie is kind of a hot mess. Did she drink most of this episode?

[EyesGlazed]

"You're right. Your future's pretty bleak if you're all they've got."

I sort of wanted Aaron to drop the mic and leave the room after he said this to Cole.

Ha, me too!  This greasy f--kup shows up from the future every few weeks with another tale of woe to break up Aaron's sexytimes with his hot girlfriend and, by the way, fail yet again to stop the plague.  Cole doesn't inspire confidence.

 

I must say that life is way too expendable in this show that is supposedly about saving the world.  The last episode was a bloodbath that included scientists and civilians as well as the soldiers guarding Spearhead.  This episode, Ramsey shoots guards all over the place.  It takes me out of the story and starts me thinking about American TV's addiction to gun violence, which is not a good place to be on a Friday night when I'm just trying to enjoy a sci-fi fantasy.

 

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I like Aaron and Cassie together and I want Aaron to last as a character.

 

One thing that is missing from this series:  it never shows how amazed Cole should be when he travels into the past.  As an inhabitant of a brutal future where presumably luxuries and even food are in short supply, I would think he'd be blown away when he encounters the pre-plague world with its crowds of people, bars, restaurants, parks, children playing, satellite TV, bicycles . . .  Instead, Cole acts like he's used to the pre-plague world and takes it for granted.

 

 

[merylinkid]

"Destroying the world to save one person?  No."

 

Isn't that what Ramses is doing?   His kid is here and now, so he doesn't want to wipe out the plague in order to make sure his son happens.   His son he has known for all of 10 minutes.

 

But then we have Jones who is willing to kill everyone NOW in order to continue her plan to stop the virus, which incidently is just so her daughter doesn't die.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

Isn't that what Ramses is doing?   His kid is here and now, so he doesn't want to wipe out the plague in order to make sure his son happens.   His son he has known for all of 10 minutes.

 

You know what would really blow Ramse's mind -- he makes a subtle change in the past that affects Elena, such that Ramse and Elena never meet and Max is never born.  And when Ramse returns to 2043 only Ramse and Cole even remember that Max existed, and Elena doesn't even know who Ramse is since Ramse is now immune to changes in the timeline.

[kat165]

What did Ramses think he would accomplish by jumping into the time machine? And as Dr. Jones said, the machine isn't calibrated to him so I don't think he can come back. Did he know that beforehand? Or am I interpretating her remarks incorrectly? And was 1987 the past he wanted to go to? Why? And if not, where did he think he was going and to do what? If he can't return he breaks his promise to the kid that he'll never leave him. He also didn't seem very upset to find his gf dead on the ground. But I was happy to see the end of her. Although I am not pro violence by any means. I don't really care for shoot-em-ups & there was too much shooting for me in this ep.

 

When Ramses opened the box with the serum I saw 4 vials. My brother said he saw 5 or 6. Ramses injected himself with one & Cole was injected with a 2nd. Did I misunderstand Jones when she told Cole that this next trip was End Game and his last since that's all the serum they have left? He is also falling apart.

 

If they can no longer use the time machine how's Cole getting back? What if he doesn't do what needs to be done in 87 to prevent the plague? What will the last 3 eps be about and the entire next season?

 

That compound Ramses was in earlier in the episode, what was that? Foster's old camp?

[BooBear]

What did Ramses think he would accomplish by jumping into the time machine?

well I was disappointed in this episode.  It was a big old mess. I agree Ramses turn to the dark side is forced and too quick.  Why hasn't anyone pointed out to him that resetting the future doesn't necessarily mean his son doesn't exsist? Maybe in a non plague future he would have even a better life?  I don't understand what he was doing by jumping into the time machine. I was disappointed by Cassie's response to Cole. I know she was disappointed but she should have been more happy that he wasn't killed. And finally I am getting tired of the needless violence in 2043. Max was not used well.

 

However, I am hoping that we move to a stable time point - 1987 and stop jumping around for a few episodes.  I am confused about how the show can go on if Cole is on the edge of death.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I didn't buy Ramse's great love for Elena. I don't know if that's because we didn't get to see them together enough or if it was bad writing or bad acting or what. All I know is that I wasn't getting an intense deep love story from them in any of these episodes. And as much as I want to understand Ramse's need to keep his kid existing, ITA that dude, you met him like ten minutes ago so how attached can you really be? Attached enough to let millions of people die when you can prevent it?

 

Risking the world for the one person that matters.  Is it right or wrong?  The question of the series

Well, if you ask Buffy the answer is that she was willing to sacrifice the person she loved most (Angel) to save the whole world once but she couldn't do it again (Dawn).

 

Interesting that both Jones and Ramse are willing to sacrifice the world to save one person while Cole and Cassie have accepted that the death of the other might be the price of saving the world (obviously neither Cassie nor Cole WANTS the other person to die but they are willing to make that sacrifice if it means everyone else, total strangers, get to live plague-free).

 

When Ramses opened the box with the serum I saw 4 vials. My brother said he saw 5 or 6. Ramses injected himself with one & Cole was injected with a 2nd. Did I misunderstand Jones when she told Cole that this next trip was End Game and his last since that's all the serum they have left? He is also falling apart.

They still have some serum left but it's because Cole's body could only endure a few more jumps if done properly but he didn't have enough time to recuperate between his last jump and this one. He is so beat up from the process that Jones knows more jumps will kill him.

[wanderingstar]

Now, Ramses is going back in time to start the plague to save his child.

 

I'm confused (often the case when I watch this show). How does Ramse think he's' going to save his son by starting the plague?

[Grammaeryn]

Not such a great episode sadly but I have another crazy theory. When Cole splintered away from the bar in 2015, a plant turned red. I am assuming that wasn't in Cassie's head. So, the 12 Monkey lady had that hypnosis speech about being in a red forest and Cassie2017 mentioned it as well. What if splintering turns plant life red? A red forest would probably happen from multiple splinters. The red forest could be the first splinter location from Jones' test runs. It could be the origin of the virus.

[dirtydi]

Wasn't a favorite episode of mine either.  I just don't feel connected with Elena and Ramse's loss.  Not because I don't understand it, but because I have seen the connection between Ramse and Cole throughout the series and I am more attached to them.  This happened too quickly.

 

Plus I am not a big fan of Aaron either.  Don't feel the connection between him and Cassie either.  I always feel she is manipulating or forcing him to get him to help her and believe in her.  He doesn't do it naturally.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Plus I am not a big fan of Aaron either.  Don't feel the connection between him and Cassie either.  I always feel she is manipulating or forcing him to get him to help her and believe in her.  He doesn't do it naturally.

 

Though I am curious what else went on between Aaron and that woman at the shipping yard.  She must have said more to him to get him onside with the Army of the 12 Monkeys.

[kat165]

ICGS, interesting theory. Thanks.

 

I agree that Ramses defection to the "dark side" was rather quick. And cold. No emotion over his dead gf, tosses Cole's friendship and their history together over like it's nothing, supposedly to protect said dead gf who he hasn't seen in years and for a child he barely knows. How easily he was swayed from believing there's not a cure to there is cure. Amazing skills beating all those guards at the door. I think it's Ramses who's a big old mess.

 

I also am not enjoying the jumping around. It disturbed last week, but I thought maybe there was a point to it. Tonight was just too much. Which feels like we're getting snapshots & not a full story.

 

Yes, Max was not used well. Another person who vaguely resembles the other women in the show. She looks like a not crazy/ranting Jennifer.

 

Electric, I wasn't getting a big love story from Ramses and Elena (thanks for the name) either. Kirk is capable of much better acting. He and the Elena actress (who for some unknown reason annoys me anyway) also have no chemistry. I didn't feel anything between them.

 

And thank you for clearing up the serum dilemna. Once he returns, if he cannot hold up for another trip do you think that will actually stop Jones from sending him if he doesn't suceed this time around? She can be ruthless.

 

Speaking of Jones, I was quite surprised that she actually kept her promise to Cole not to hurt Ramses. I figured she was just lying and would tell the head solider guy to just do what needs to be done, whatever needs to be done.

 

Ramses obviously thinks that by saving the plague his son will still exist. As opposed to no plague, no son. I don't think he knows enough about time travel to ensure that.

 

Grammaeryn, your comment made me wonder if perhaps Jennifer sort of hypnotized Ramses when she was dangling that necklace in front of him before she gave it to him. Like get in the time machine, keep the plague going. That would explain his unbelievable turn around.

[FurryFury]

This show's focus on Ramses annoys me. He isn't THAT interesting by himself. He's OK with Cole and even Whitley or Jones, but by himself or with tangential characters like Elena or the kid, no. So please, stop trying to making him happen. I feel like I barely saw Cole and Cassie in the last 3 episodes in favor of Ramse and Jones. And while Jones is interesting (even if not quite as awesome as I'd love to because of the stupid kid motivation), Ramse's not.

 

And yeah, his face heel turn was rushed and contrived like whoa. Not to mention him no only getting to the past, but surviving the travel. I'm not of a fan of this twist. 

 

I do like it that Cole and Cassie are both willing to sacrifice the others to save the world. It's consistent with their characterization and, frankly, admirable. Can't help but love them (and be pissed we've only got 1 scene of them together).

[Chaos Theory]

It looks like I am in the minority here when it comes to Ramse.  Yes I do agree that it might have been in the shows interest to have a few more scenes with his girlfriend and kid but it doesn't change the primary interest of his character.....well it changes it completely.  He was a guy who was just surviving to survive and now he has the same basic primary interest that Jones has but the other end of the spectrum.  Jones sent Cole in time to save her child the rest of it has always been static and now Ramse is going back in time to save his own by making sure the plague happens and doesn't particularly care about the lives that will end because of the plague as long as his son survives.  The motivation is the same.  The only problem is that the show didn't give it enough time to grow.  What it did give and gave well is the friendship and brotherhood between Cole and Ramse which has now completely shattered.  It is they who have different/opposite motivations.  Both Jones and Ramse are willing to sacrifice the world for the person who matters most but Cole and Cassie (even though I am pretty sure they will most definitely fall in love if they are not already)  are willing to sacrifice each other to save the world.   Maybe the show faltered a little with Ramse and his family but the idea itself is intriguing.  

[mjc570]

I'm not sure I can equate Ramse and Jones in terms of their motivation - for Ramse it's a straight either-or situation - save his son OR the rest of humanity.  At least so far, for Jones, its been saving her daughter AND the rest of humanity.  To me, Ramse is a selfish monster while Dr. Jones is a savior.  Of course, if it came down to choice between her daughter and the rest of humanity, she might (likely, will) be as selfish as he is, but we haven't gotten to that point yet. 

 

Ramse did (slightly) redeem himself in my eyes for dragging the scientist out of the room before he set it on fire - at least he didn't let him burn to death.

 

I like Aaron, and hope he isn't too hurt by Cassie.  I guess my liking is a Damages carryover.

[kat165]

As much as I love Kirk, FurryFurry, I agree with you. The last few eps we haven't seen much of Cassie & Cole and I find their storylines much more interesting than Ramses. Yeah, I found Jones more interesting without the kid motivation too. Although I'm not quite buying that that's her only motivation. It's just what other characters are accusing her of.

 

I would be more of a fan of the Ramses' travel twist if it hadn't been so rushed. It could have been led up to more believeably. Another short-cutted story. As Chaos theory points out his primary interest has changed, he now actually has a primary interest rather than just trying to survive. Yes! It wasn't given time to grow.

 

Another aspect to Jones' stopping the plague is that she is old enough to have lived some of her life before the quality of life got pretty dismal. Stopping the plague & re-writing time would not only bring her daughter back but bring her own life back to something presumably better than the life she's living now.

[Cthulhudrew]

This episode just didn't work for me. I had no investment in Ramse's family and cannot buy he went to the dark side so quickly. I did, however, enjoy the monkey sisters.

 

Is it the dark side, though?

[Cthulhudrew]

It looks like I am in the minority here when it comes to Ramse.  

 

You're not the only one in that minority. I think the groundwork for the change in Ramse's perspective has been pretty well laid for some time now, such that I knew it was only a matter of time for this to happen. Pretty much since the beginning, he's been very skeptical of the whole splintering goal (the exception being the strange decision of his revealed an episode or two ago when it was revealed that he was the one that pushed Cole into doing it in the first place). He even has a speech with Cole back in Atari where he questions what is the point of trying to change the past. 

 

So when he is suddenly given even more reason to be attached to his present- Elena, a child he didn't know anything about- it seems perfectly in character to me that he decides that the whole thing is really pointless. Not to mention that Cole- his best friend, whose interests he has had in heart since day one- declares that Ramse's intentions and desires (vis a vis keeping his newly found family intact) don't matter. 

 

Not to mention that Ramse, of everyone so far, seems to be the only one who actually knows the extent to which Jones is willing to lie and manipulate to achieve her own ends, gruesome as those means may be at times.

 

So, no, I can't agree with the sentiment that Ramse suddenly and inexplicably turned on his friends and allies, because it seems to me the groundwork has been pretty well laid so far. And the beauty of this show, to me, is that it isn't really a question of right or wrong- is he a bad guy now? No more or less than most of the characters in the show, all of whom have done questionable things- and outright reprehensible in some cases- in order to achieve those ends which they felt were in the best interests of either the greater good and/or themselves.

 

Which is really the ultimate fun of the show, to me. It's kind of the Kant vs. Mill of morality. What is the greater good, in the end? Who is it we should be rooting for here? 

 

I don't really know. But I'm enjoying the ride.

[Rhetorica]

Is it the dark side, though?

I think the show wants us to think so. He's now set up as an enemy to his previous best friend, selfishly sacrificing humanity for his son, and a militant. I, like many others, felt the storyline was too rushed. Only a few more minutes of screen family time spread across several episodes might have helped. Might have...

[alias1]

I think the show tried to adequately set up the reason why Ramse is going back to make sure the plague isn't going to be prevented, but they didn't succeed with me.  I didn't see Ramse being all that upset over Elena's death.  It just seemed like words.  And the talk he had with his son had no emotion behind it.   So far I'm not invested in his mission to save the son he barely knows. 

 

I would like to know what the lady in the shipping yard told Aaron.

[kat165]

Cthulhudrew, thanks for presenting a different/fresh viewpoint. I'm going to give this some thought. Although I am still uncertain that Jones did destroy the cure. I'm uncertain that there was a cure.

 

Also, good point about the dark side. I don't necessarily think that Ramses has turned to the dark side. The only dark side I'm really getting here is the release of the plague to begin with. We still don't know why it was created/released - unless we're seeing it in Ramses' actions now/tocome. If there's a "light" side to it's creation/release I'm not seeing it...yet.

 

The reveal that Ramses was the one to convince Cole to time travel in the first place adds to my impression of him being "all over the place." I don't know that he is a bad guy. It seems as though he is betraying his friendship with Cole is the worst thing he's done. Doesn't really make him a bad guy.

 

I'm enjoying the ride too.

 

ICGS, that's time travel in a nutshell, the paradox of it all.

SierraMist, sorry I missed your post first time around. Refresh my memory, what lady in the shipping yard, what did she tell Cole?

[diebartdie]

In the episode where Ramse discovered Jones' files of all the previous experiments into time travel, they had a long conversation about what they were doing. Jones gave a rather impassioned speech about all the great things humanity had created (art, literature, music) but that were all lost in that horrible plague apocalypse so to me it seems that Jones' motivation is primarily to get back her life with her daughter but also that THAT life would be one worth living, a life surrounded by the greatest things humanity is capable.

 

I think on some level Jennifer is invested in bringing about the plague because she'd like to see a world with fewer people but more free animals and maybe she'd like to see a world where nature has a chance to clean up the horrible mess humans have made. Just spit ballin' about her motivations. She clearly was using Ramse to nefarious ends. I wonder, is Ramse the Witness?

[angora]

With Jones, I think part of it has also become a matter of erasing her sins.  Her initial efforts to bring back her daughter/the world/human civilization obviously led to the presumably horrible deaths of her test subjects, and like Cole, I'm guessing she's latched onto the hope that her deeds will be wiped clean if she succeeds in changing the past.  It's sort of a vicious cycle where her obsession with her mission leads her to do increasingly awful things (like killing all those scientists to get the second core,) which makes her all the more desperate to succeed on her mission.

[kat165]

Diebardie, thanks for saying more on Jones' behalf. I was having a hard time expressing myself & you worded this perfectly. I don't think her motives are completely selfish or self-serving. And I'd forgotten her speech.

 

And thanks for the insight into Jennifer who is the character I understand the least.

 

Angora, yeah, I can see that too.

[kat165]

Another thought - we know Ramses recognized the sign of the 12 Monkeys when Jennifer & her band of loons passed by, but did he also recognize Jennifer? Does he know about her?

[ottoDbusdriver]

Here's a mind-blowing theory -- remember when Cole changed the past and returned to 2043 where Ramse was in charge of the West VII and they had occupied the time travel building ?  That Ramse would have never had any reason to go back to the past (heck, I don't even think that Elena and Sam were part of West VII).  If Ramse is the trigger for the formation of the Army of the 12 Monkeys that eventually releases the virus and if Cole had never fixed the timeline, Ramse would have never met the Daughters and Jennifer Goines and would never have gone back to start the Army in 1987 Japan and the virus would never have been released and Cole would have never been messing with the timeline in the first place.   Owww, my head hurts now.

[diebartdie]

I don't think Ramse knew about Jennifer or if he did it would have been something really vague like Cole saying "yeah and I met this insane chick while I was tracking down Leland." and even if Ramse knew more than that, I doubt he would necessarily think the crazy tea leaf reader he met with the traveling Lilith Faire was Jennifer all grown old. 

[Pike Ludwell]

I feel like 13 episodes is too much. Should have been 10 at the most. It's starting to drag. And there apparently will be no resolution when we finally get through ep. 13 -- there will be another season. Feeling like "Lost" all over again. Of course, I've not been "wild" about the show from the beginning, but it's been just good enough to keep me watching. I guess folks who are wild about it love the fact that it's going on and on.

[NeenerNeener]

I think I'm out. The idea of this show going on for multiple years, with Cole always being this close to succeeding and yet always failing week after week, depresses me and makes me tired at the same time. After the series is completely over I will binge-watch the last 4 or 5 episodes to get closure.

[shapeshifter]

Lots of what the late Roger Ebert called Idiot Plot was required to get Ramse time travelling: the guy at the camp with a hatchet charging a bunch of guys with guns, 3 armed men letting Ramse get the better of them, etc....

I would have been okay with all of this if they had just introduced Helena flashbacks--even just a few seconds--back in the first 2-3 episodes. I think her name was mentioned once, but that was all.

What did Ramses think he would accomplish by jumping into the time machine? And as Dr. Jones said, the machine isn't calibrated to him so I don't think he can come back. Did he know that beforehand? Or am I interpretating her remarks incorrectly? And was 1987 the past he wanted to go to? Why? And if not, where did he think he was going and to do what? If he can't return he breaks his promise to the kid that he'll never leave him....

Yeah. It doesn't make sense. Unless. Maybe he's planning to hang around 1987 in case Cole succeeds in getting there and then kill him? But then what if also steps on a butterfly, if you know what I mean.

....Now, Ramses is going back in time to start the plague to save his child.   And, of course, look at the whole biblical tie-in of it... Rameses losing his first-born to a plague.  I could be wrong, but that's how I took it.

Interesting. So is Cole Moses?

...Interesting that both Jones and Ramse are willing to sacrifice the world to save one person while Cole and Cassie have accepted that the death of the other might be the price of saving the world (obviously neither Cassie nor Cole WANTS the other person to die but they are willing to make that sacrifice if it means everyone else, total strangers, get to live plague-free)....

Yes. I think this is the whole point to the story. It seems pretty simplistic at first (or course we would want to save the world rather than just one person) but what if that one person is necessary to saving the world--which I don't think Ramse's son is, and I doubt Jones' daughter is either. But even so, do the means justify the ends? In the first few episodes, IIRC, Ramse was pretty hard core against killing. Right? I wish they would revisit his stand on that.

And ITA with the person upthread who mentioned that there is an awful lot of killing going on in a world where there are so few survivors.

...When Cole splintered away from the bar in 2015, a plant turned red. I am assuming that wasn't in Cassie's head. So, the 12 Monkey lady had that hypnosis speech about being in a red forest and Cassie2017 mentioned it as well. What if splintering turns plant life red? A red forest would probably happen from multiple splinters. The red forest could be the first splinter location from Jones' test runs. It could be the origin of the virus.

Can you give an approximate time stamp of when you saw the plant turn red? I didn't notice it. (Family visiting so watched while half asleep)

[ottoDbusdriver]

Can you give an approximate time stamp of when you saw the plant turn red? I didn't notice it. (Family visiting so watched while half asleep)

 

About 1/4 way through the episode when Cole and Cassie go to that bar to examine the plague book they found in that lab, Cassie goes to get her coat as they are about to leave the bar.  After Cassie confronts Cole about the debilitating effects splintering is having on him and Cole disappears, Cassie notices that the leaves on a plant right beside her suddenly turns red.

[shapeshifter]

Thanks, otto! That sure negates all my previous thoughts on the meaning of "red forest"!

Any thoughts on the title of the episode, "Divine Move"? My first thoughts center around Jones saying they would need to atone for what they had done in any time--which was very different from the previous week when she hand-waved the slaughter at the compound with a cavalier, "When we succeed, this will have never happened."

[angora]

About 1/4 way through the episode when Cole and Cassie go to that bar to examine the plague book they found in that lab, Cassie goes to get her coat as they are about to leave the bar.  After Cassie confronts Cole about the debilitating effects splintering is having on him and Cole disappears, Cassie notices that the leaves on a plant right beside her suddenly turns red.

Also, when Ramse met Jennifer, she was babbling about the tea she was making and said something like, "Need to use the red ones, and they're only red where he's been."

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, when Ramse met Jennifer, she was babbling about the tea she was making and said something like, "Need to use the red ones, and they're only red where he's been."

 

Nice catch @angora, I missed that so I went back and took a second look.  Jennifer says: "Whispers.  Some come from my herb. Gives you pictures, you know. Pictures in your head you can't erase. They don't work unless the leaves are red. And they're not red unless he has been there."

 

Later in the same conversation.

 

Jennifer: "It's all out of order. But there's still time. For you and me, we have work to finish.

Ramse: "What are you talking about ?  What work ?"

Jennifer: "All kinds.  Undo what I've done. What Cole's done."

Ramse: "You know Cole ?"

Jennifer: "Cole.  Cole.  Eyes that see. Pull out our eyes but can't stop the plague.  No. Cannot do that."

Ramse: "You know who started it ?"

Jennifer: "Yes. No.  There's only one who truly knows.  Sees. Did see. Will see.  The Witness."

Ramse: "How do I find him ?"

Jennifer: "Telle me where Cole is and I'll give you what you need."

Ramse: "Cole's gone.  I don't know where.  How do you know what I need."

 

And then Jennifer gives him the medallion on the chain.

[kat165]

Otto, yeah, that hurt my head too. :)

 

Thanks, diebart. He probably didn't know/recognize her.

 

Riverclown, I can see your point. I do feel like some of the story is just filler (most of Ramses' stuff/the future stuff). I don't know if having only 10 eps would have cut downon some of this though. No one starts a show usually with the intention of it only going

one season so I kind of expect some filler.

 

There are plenty of crappy shows out there so this one looks pretty good to me so far.

 

What really strikes me is that apparently, according to Jones, Cole is not going to be able to do much more, if any, further time travel so where does the story go from there? It seems like the time travel is being cut off too early. I didn't watch Lost, thank god. What a frightening thought to think that this could be heading in the same direction. If I felt that way I'd be out too. But the time travel alone
keeps me interested plus most of the actors are worth watching and the relationships between some of the characters. 

 

Sorry this is not such a great watch for you, River. I like the show a lot but I'm not wild about it "going on and on" either.

 

Neener, this show is on SciFy. They don't hang onto shows as long as the networks or some cable shows do. Few shows can even survive 5 years. SciFy seems quit to pull a show no matter what the ratings. Which can be a good thing. So this show might not suffer the fate of shows like Lost. But I can see why you'd not want to waste your time/energy.

 

Shapeshifter, if Ramses realizes that he can't go back then he's sacrificing himself, basically, for his kid to live/be born but he's also breaking his promise to him that he will never leave him. Which goes back to it making no sense for him to have gone back in
the first place.

 

All this red business reminds me of the different colors in Fringe. Which made sense to me eventually, but here I'm not quite getting it.

[Reishe]

SciFy seems quit to pull a show no matter what the ratings.

 

It's a numbers game. In the kinds of shows Syffy carries, the contracts are for five seasons. After five seasons, everyone renegotiates and prices typically go up. This is why they pulled all kinds of shenanigans with shows like Eureka, splitting one season into "first half" and "second half" to squeeze as much as possible out of the initial contract.

That said, I don't think I could take five seasons of 12 Monkeys; there's only so much they can draw out the impending doom before I would get tired and walk away. Already, with the limited quantity of magic injections left and Cole near death, I'm finding myself drawn out of the story to wonder how they're going to shift gears to tell next season's story.