S02.E16: Blood Must Have Blood - Part 2

[FineWashables]

I had such high hopes when this show premiered.  I thought they'd dive into how these survivors adapt to the new planet, what challenges they have to solve, how they take care of their basic needs.  Instead, it quickly devolved into a show about war.  I'm not entertained by war.  He killed her!  She killed him!  They killed each other!  It's random as to who gets killed, because that's the way war works, so it's hard for me to get invested in the story now.  They're creating characters just so viewers are supposed to care when the characters die.  Meh.

[viajero]

I personally loved this season finale, for all the reasons others have already expressed in this forum.

 

Now that the season is over, I got to say something that I never thought I'd say during Season 1. I think this just may have become the best current show on network TV and the best Science Fiction series since BSG. I'm still in utter disbelief that they went where they did on network TV (let alone on CW) and that they did it so damn well.

 

I also think Clarke is the most well developed morally ambiguous character on TV perhaps since Breaking Bad ended.  It's certainly exceedingly rare to find a show centered around a teen girl in a leadership position and even rarer that her character is so fully developed, warts and all. I mean how many shows would have their teenaged protagonist kill her primary love interest, knowingly sacrifice 250 of her allies, and then basically commit genocide, while still managing to allow viewers to at least understand (if not necessarily approve of) the choices she makes?

 

The other great thing about Clarke is that she's no superhero with special powers (like Buffy) or even superior fighting skills (like Katniss).  Instead she just an all too imperfect regular girl with natural leadership abilities and a stubborn determination to try to save her people under the most extreme of circumstances.

 

As for what's to come, anybody else notice that Clarke’s last words to Bellamy were, “May we meet again”, which are the exact same last words that Lexa said to her.  .

 

And finally, the woman in red? Totally BSG. But then, it's clear by this point BSG is probably one of the biggest influences on The 100, so I'm not surprised, again.

 

 

What about the fact they played “Knocking on Heaven’s Door” during the scene where the sky people return safely to camp.  For me, that song has become forever associated with BSG.

Edited March 14, 2015 by viajero

[dr pepper]

I was getting ready to stop watching this show. But now a bored AI has a nuke.

 

BTW: did anyone not realize the woman was a hologram as soon as she showed up?

Revenge on the Mt. Weatherites ??  Because he would sell his right arm for another shot of joy juice.

 

Well somebody's right arm, anyway!

I do have one nit to pick. Really, I don't see why Clarke's people couldn't clean up Mount Weather, repair the turbines, and live there themselves. Hell, at least raid the place for food and supplies.

 

That was my thought as well.

Edited March 14, 2015 by dr pepper

[dr pepper]

Who took the body out of the ultimate bachelor pad?  Glad Murphy got it, he deserves some place nice.

 

Six has eyes and ears-- those drones, i assume she has hands too-- server bots.

 

Was the thing in the ocean suppose to be a gigantic lamprey? 

 

That's what it looked like to me.

[FurryFury]

As for what's to come, anybody else notice that Clarke’s last words to Bellamy were, “May we meet again”, which are the exact same last words that Lexa said to her.  .

 

I think this phrase has been said a couple of times already during the show, but I may be mistaken.

 

I do agree that Clarke's character development this season has been done really well. I was impressed.

Edited March 14, 2015 by FurryFury

[Tippi Blevins]

I know they probably don't have the budget for it, but I'd love to see more of the mutant monster animals. 

[bluvelvet]

It's hard to ship anyone when the PTB refuse to allow them spend any screen time together, even though that's what was driving their rating initially.

That's one thing I didn't like about this season. I really enjoy Clarke and Bellamy's interactions and they have literally spent this entire season apart. Now Clarke is taking a much needed sabbatical so it seems as if next season we will have Bellamy on the home front with Clarke off somewhere. Very annoying.

I disagree that Bellamy is more her second, I still see them as co-leaders, he was correct when he said they both pushed that lever. However I do agree that her emotional burden is much heavier. They are now apart in their leadership experiences. Clarke has been on the outside making the difficult decisions in regards to the war whereas Bellamy has been on the inside working as a soldier. He didn't or couldn't evolve as a leader due to circumstance. Now that he is out he will step back into his original role as a leader and next season we may have to see him make difficult choices. However I am curious how that will work with Cane and Chancellor Abby.

As for Jaha, he can be killed anytime now. Can't believe he was one of my favorite characters in season 1 and now I can't stand him. Pushing the kid overboard to save his own life with his feeble justification. I'm glad Abby didn't relinquish the chancellorship to him. Felt that he needed more of a comeuppance. Everyone who started out with him except Murphy and the smart ones who turned back has died. He needs to realize that he made the wrong decision.

Love Kane, can't believe I disliked him along with Bellamy in season 1.

Edited March 15, 2015 by bluvelvet

[Lord Kira]

I think this phrase has been said a couple of times already during the show, but I may be mistaken.

 

 

Yeah, "May we meet again" is like BSG's "So say we all," a phrase that we can associate specifically with a show. May we meet again was used most memorably in the season 1 finale when Bellamy said it to Octavia when she was injured in battle and Lincoln was taking her away from the battlefield.

[Riful]

It's hard to ship anyone when the PTB refuse to allow them spend any screen time together, even though that's what was driving their rating initially.

 

To be honest I find it a disservice to this show when it's ratings gets reduced to being upheld by one ('romantic') pairing, especially on a show that is not drama about who is with who. I think to begin with this show has a lot going for it that does not relate to romance. The various factions and how they fight for survival, dealing with the ethical ramifications and the burden of their choices, the characters and so on, is what I consider to be the core and the attraction of the show . YMMV on this.

Also with regards to the ratings I don't quite follow because the demo has been pretty steady from the start of S2 up until the last episode where it dropped, which featured the most Bellamy/Clarke for a long time. It had been moving up and down from between 0.48-0.6, but in this episode it dropped to an all time series low of 0.40. Now I blame this primarily on Arrow being a re-run episode previously although it was also a re-run episode for Part 1. I don't think Bellamy and Clarke interaction is really such a big factor when it comes to the ratings, no matter what shippers want to claim. Fandom tends to be focused on shipping, and yeah Bellamy/Clarke are the dominating group there, but that is online. Even season 1, where after the initial higher numbers that come with a new show went down, the demo moved between 0.47-0.58 so it is pretty similar for both seasons.

 

I also think Clarke is the most well developed morally ambiguous character on TV perhaps since Breaking Bad ended.  It's certainly exceedingly rare to find a show centered around a teen girl in a leadership position and even rarer that her character is so fully developed, warts and all. I mean how many shows would have their teenaged protagonist kill her primary love interest, knowingly sacrifice 250 of her allies, and then basically commit genocide, while still managing to allow viewers to at least understand (if not necessarily approve of) the choices she makes?

 

The other great thing about Clarke is that she's no superhero with special powers (like Buffy) or even superior fighting skills (like Katniss).  Instead she just an all too imperfect regular girl with natural leadership abilities and a stubborn determination to try to save her people under the most extreme of circumstances.

 

I agree so much with all you have written there. You managed to beautifully articulate a lot of the aspects I like about Clarke as a character. In S1 I was alright with Clarke, but the way she has evolved this season due to the deep seeded need to save her people have just been fantastic. I never really thought of how Clarke actually physically don't have much going. She can fire a gun fairly well, and will fight tooth and nail, but no training and no powers. She just have herself and her drive. I also like she has a tendency to run to hot at times and let her emotions run her over, but she has her friends to balance her and pull her back. E.g. Octavia stopping Clarke from shooting open the door panel or Raven calming Clarke down when she was being pretty shitty towards her

 

As for Jaha, he can be killed anytime now. Can't believe he was one of my favorite characters in season 1 and now I can't stand him. Pushing the kid overboard to save his own life with his feeble justification. I'm glad Abby didn't relinquish the chancellorship to him. Felt that he needed more of a comeuppance. Everyone who started out with him except Murphy and the smart ones who turned back has died. He needs to realize that he made the wrong decision.

Oh God, I don't even want to imagine what would had happened if he became the chancellor. Perhaps he would had dragged all the Arkers with him in his mad faith quest. I am curious just how Jaha believed the City Of Light would had saved many? Did he intend to find this paradise and then go fetch the Arkers? (To be honest I tend to not pay much attention with Jaha, because I find him and his story line that uninteresting, so it might have been mentioned already but I missed it). His character definitely taken a turn for the worst this season, but who knows, this show excels in redeeming characters or at least making them tolerable or even likeable.

[HeatherinThailand]

I gotta say this for this show: every time I think I have it figured out, they change direction. They really go there, whether it's abject betrayal, harvesting bone marrow or mass extermination. It's pretty impressive that a show made for teenagers is so dark yet so nuanced in how they tell the stories of the ways people survive their many traumas and the scars their decisions leave (both physical and psychological). They also have never shied away from killing off plenty of lead characters. The hardest thing for me to watch has been the bone marrow drilling because that sound just gives me chills and the idea that they are not even giving the people pain killers is horrifying. The thing I like the best has been the overt feminism of the show, in the end, having all the varying factions be led by women. That is something the rest of tv would do well to emulate.

[Slider]

 

To be honest I find it a disservice to this show when it's ratings gets reduced to being upheld by one ('romantic') pairing, especially on a show that is not drama about who is with who. I think to begin with this show has a lot going for it that does not relate to romance.

 

I would stress that it's no so much the lack of romance for Bellamy and Clarke, as it is for the lack of screen time with them together.  Their dynamic leading the 100 was the best part of the show.  They disagreed a lot, yet they came to agreement several other times.  I think the best example is the "I Am Death" episode from season 1.  They disagreed on one thing, then agreed on another, and they worked well together.  That is when they (and the 100) were at their strongest, and it was one of the best episodes by far. I don't need them to hit the sheets, but I do need them to share screen time because the way their characters interact is golden.

[Carrie Ann]

I agree with that. I think for a lot of people, coming out of Season 1, Bellamy and Clarke were the two characters--together or separate--that they felt attached to. So it was a little disappointing to only have a couple of episodes where they were even geographically near each other. I personally didn't have a problem with it, because I was so into the other pairings and dynamics we got to see, but where Clarke got to bounce off a lot of other people, and have a real connection with Lexa, Bellamy was just kinda...off on his own. So, I'm sure they will step it up with him next season, and I would expect to see more B/C scenes in general. The one we got here was really nice, and a good reminder that their chemistry--romantic or not--is a good resource for the writers.

[knaxx]

Clarke got to bounce off a lot of other people, and have a real connection with Lexa, Bellamy was just kinda...off on his own.

 

I agree with this. I didn't really mind the lack of Bellamy/Clarke scenes but they do need to give Bellamy more interaction with somebody.

I would actually say I am glad if they explore dynamics with characters other than Clarke because I don't think they challenge each other the same way they did in s1. Back then they both had very different agendas and needed to work together to survive.

Bellamy was a more natural leader and had the trust of the 100 whereas Clarke had better strategic instincts and foresight concernig a lot of things. In order to survive they needed to work together. Not to mention that so much of Bellamy's early actions were driven by outside factors like running from the Ark council and Bellamy sort of needed Clarke as an advocate and to reel him back in from his solo agenda. Clarke on the other hand needed somebody to push her in becoming more ruthless as a leader.

By now they have developed to a point where they have less to learn from each other and while their bond is stronger and therefore better able to drive their actions, it doesn't drive their character develpement in the same way.

Pushing the button together was a good example I think. Because Clarke had been mentally preparing herself to wipe out the mountain from the moment she stepped foot in it and Bellamy was reluctant until the very second when he saw Octavia held at gun point. They pushed the button together but ultimately neither really influenced or supported the other.

Their reaction was also opposite in a way that can't really be challenged. Bellamy arrives at camp and wants a drink after a job well done. As bad as he might feel on some level, he can file it away as "it had to be done" and move on. Clarke can't.

And as sweet as the goodbye scene was, nothing Bellamy said could have taken away the blame Clarke felt and nothing Clarke said could have made Bellamy feel differently.

Since the big threat is gone for now, I expect it to take a few episodes next season for the action to pick up again and the plot for the season to be set up. This "down time" is a great opportunity to explore the characters more and I want to see how Bellamy intergrates himself with the council, how much responsibility he'll want to take on, how his relationship with Octavia will change now that she's a warrior and Lincoln is with her and who he confides into when Clarke isn't around.

[kingshearte]

My husband and I were busy or something when the show came back from hiatus, so we only just got around to the back half of this season, which we binge-watched in one afternoon/evening.

 

I'm a little disappointed with the road they took for the Mountain Men. I've always liked the way this show presents everything as morally grey, with even our heroes allowed to be seriously flawed. The Mountain Men's use of the Grounders, horrific as it was, definitely puts them way closer to the dark side of the grey area, but (if you're feeling reeeeeally generous) you could argue that they couldn't (or never really tried hard enough to) communicate with them, they seemed very primitive, and, in our usual "humans are superior" mindset, I can at least see how one might try to justify what they were doing. To be clear, I'm not saying that I think they were justified, but if you're trying to justify your own actions in the name of species survival, there's at least some tenuous ground that you might be able to talk yourself into believing. But by the end, when it becomes clear that it's not just an elite few who know how they've stayed alive this long, and they just descend into taking what they need in the most horrific manner possible (because I'm sorry, but even someone with no moral qualms whatsoever about animal testing and whatnot would have to balk at the way they were treating their marrow "donor animals" at the end there, wouldn't they?), they crossed way over into caricature-land, well beyond the grey area, and it was a lot less interesting, psychologically speaking. And I do always love the idea that these people (or even animals) that we've been abusing decided to defend themselves, and that makes us the victims here!

 

I don't even know what to make of the City of Lights stuff. That whole journey was utterly dull from the get-go (Murphy's snide remarks and that beautiful moon silhouette shot being pretty much the only even remotely worthwhile parts), and I was just waiting for it to become relevant. I guess it has now? I have no idea. I'd like to say I'm interested in knowing how the whole dude giving her (presumably Lady Hologram) the nuke codes went down, but... I'm not hugely interested. I hope they'll get that storyline tied in with the characters I actually am interested in promptly, because I just can't take much more of Jaha's insane faith quest on its own. I'm really just hoping that it doesn't involve Clarke wandering off and finding the house where Jaha is, and keeping those two (+ Murphy) separate from the rest of the cast for half the season.

[AzureOwl]

I just binge-watched both season of this show over the last two weekends and I’m really impressed.

 

So, Clarke is the one who knocks ? Should we start calling her Heisenberg ?

Clarke is The One You Do Not Fuck With. As the Wallaces, father and son, learned much too late.

 

Clarke is pulling the whole "Don't make me do this" nonsense. But murder is in her blood, and she likes the feeling. Man, Clarke really is a cold-hearted beyotch -- willing to kill people that helped her and all the kids just to save her mommy. Isn't that what Finn did to the Grounders for the love of his life, Clarke ? But she tried to be the good guy by committing mass murder.

The problem is that she was in a position where it was all or nothing. We saw that Clarke engineered the entire assault on the Mountain in such a way that it would minimize Mountain Men civilian casualties. When Lexa left and Cage wouldn’t negotiate for his father, her only options literally became kill them all or let the 44 + 5 die horribly.

 

The lighthouse has a fully stocked fallout shelter -- and looks exactly the same as it did at the fall of civilization and everything works.

So who cleaned up that dead body in the shelter ? And what was he babbling about launch codes for ? How long ago was that video made. Seriously, that place wasn't even dusty.

The timestamp in the video said 05/10/2052, which could mean May or October 2052 depending on whose dating convention the recording was using. The writers have confirmed that the apocalypse occurred in 2052, so the man in the tape killed himself shortly after the world burned.

As for the cleaning, Alie obviously has some manner of servants doing her bidding. Otherwise she wouldn’t have been able to move the warhead and the missile all the way from the desert to her compound.

 

They presented Clarke with an impossible choice since Cage wasn't willing to compromise. I get that the writers wanted that - but if Clarke had considered negotiating with the Mountain People as a group they probably would have turned on Cage and worked out a truce - - unless the majority of them were also psycho ruthless assholes.

But the previous episodes have shown that the majority are more concerned with their own comfort and survival than with doing what’s right. Except for the children, every single person in that mountain made a conscious choice to accept the transfusions, even though they knew exactly where the blood was coming from. When Cage went public with what was going on, everyone knew it was only a matter of time before even the people hiding the kids turned on them. Besides, Cage had a pretty solid grip on all the security personnel in the bunker. We only saw that one guy siding with the dissidents and helping hide the 44.

 

An AI engineering world apocalypse isn't a novel idea in the post-apocalyptic genre, so I wasn't exactly wowed by the reveal (actually, I've pretty much expected for AI to come into play since Murphy found the bunker), and I doubt this show could deal with AI tropes as well as Person of Interest does (although I don't consider PoI to be as good with character development and emotional stuff, it's a very intellectual show - often too intellectual), but this season has made me trust the writers, so I'm game for anything.

I think the choice of having an AI trigger the apocalypse actually makes sense in a post-Cold War scenario. The nature of the apocalypse as a worldwide nuclear war always bothered me as a premise for the backstory of the show, because I can’t see a scenario where one would be likely. Having a single individual (human or AI) deliberately engineering things so that humanity is destroyed works better.

 

Well, as long as they don't make Clarke forgive Lexa, because after everything that has happened because of her betrayal, that would feel like character assassination for Clarke. I mean, I love Lexa, but this ship should have sailed.

Not necessarily. Clarke may very well decide that she has no right to judge Lexa for what she did, considering that Clarke committed an even more heinous crime for the exact same reason as Lexa… protecting her people. So Clarke may forgive Lexa next season… but trusting her? Now that is another thing entirely.

 

Was Dante not aware that Mt. W had been murdering Grounders and Sky People for generations? Or did this all start withCage? I'm not entirely sure I got the extent of Dante's complicity.

He was perfectly aware. And he was perfectly aware that it was wrong. At one point he told his son that what they had done “to the Outsiders” had tainted their legacy but that using the 47 in the same manner would push it down that path further than he was willing to allow.

Dante drew an arbitrary line in the sand in his mind about how far he was willing to go. Probably because it is easier to dehumanize some (from his point of view) barely civilized savages than it is to do it to some kids that are so extremely similar to you.

Edited March 23, 2015 by AzureOwl

[Sakura12]

I just binge-watched both season of this show over the last two weekends and I’m really impressed.

 

I did the same thing. I don't know why I wasn't watching this show before, it's strangely compelling and one of the best shows I've watched this season so far (the other being Agent Carter). 

 

I posted this in the media thread but I find Clarke one of the most compelling characters on tv. She's not a great hero by any means but she has saved people at the cost of her soul. Those are the types of characters I'm drawn too. She faces consequences for her actions, her friends and family look at her like she's a psycho most of the time, she's brutal and she's ruthless, but she will do anything to save the people she cares about even if that means killing them to save them from unimaginable pain. I never thought I'd see that on show on the CW. This show doesn't even belong on that network. 

 

I loved seeing the three (I guess 4 leaders counting Cage) and how they dealt with saving their people. All of them were willing to do whatever it took, Cage lost because he underestimated Clarke's ruthlessness. Dante knew it, he could see it in Clarke's eyes. He told his son not mess with her. Lexa is just has ruthless as Clarke and did what she thought was right for her people. Clarke would understand that but still be mad that she ditched her. I'm also sure Lexa will hear about what happened at Mr. Weather and be proud of Clarke. Not that Clarke should be proud of herself and she wasn't. She is baring the burden of the choice she made so her people can go on living another day having done nothing wrong. She's fine if her mother, Jasper, and Raven hate her as long as they are alive. 

 

A good leader doesn't always make the right choice, but they have to make the best choice that insures their people's survival. "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown."

 

There are annoying characters, Finn, Jaha and Abby. No show is perfect and I suppose they are needed for opposing viewpoints. I do think some of the other characters deserve more to do. However most of the time I don't like the lead character but Clarke is one of the rare leads that I find to be the most interesting. Eliza Taylor is doing a great job showing Clarke's leadership skills and struggle with that role. I could definitely see why Grounders saw Clarke as the true leader of the Sky People. 

 

I'm also glad people are still talking about this show, having just finished it I want to talk about it all the time. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

I'm in the minority who doesn't mind Jaha's character and his story. For a time in s2 I was on the fence about his survival, because I really loved his "death" scene in s1 finale, but I actually grew to appreciate his spiritual journey with Murphy. I consider this show BSG-light, and the spiritual element that was intrinsic to BSG had just been missing until this arc. It also expands the world of the show and has managed to create a pretty fun dynamic between Murphy and Jaha, which is a very odd pairing. I wouldn't exactly say that this story has been written exceptionally well - especially in the finale, I've felt like it had way too much screen time and wasn't as emotionally compelling and cathartic as Clarke's/Arc survivors' - but I appreciate the notion, at least. Plus, I'm actually kinda intrigued by the idea of Jaha becoming the next season's villain. I think he has a lot of potential if taken in this direction.

Edited March 24, 2015 by FurryFury

[kingshearte]

Plus, I'm actually kinda intrigued by the idea of Jaha becoming the next season's villain. I think he has a lot of potential if taken in this direction.

I hadn't really considered that angle. But you're right; it could be interesting.

[Sakura12]

I think my hate Jaha stems from my hatred of the actor from his antics on Grey's Anatomy. Most of the time I FF through his scenes which were mostly boring speeches. I actually cheered when he didn't find what he was looking for. Unlike Clarke, Jaha is looking out for his survival not the Arc People's. I'm sad that Murphy is stuck with him. The only thing that interests me now is Deputy Jo the AI that probably destroyed the world and wants to wipe out humanity again (probably because we suck and fight all the time)

 

I already see Jaha as the villain. But I'm sure he'll be next seasons main villain with Deputy AIJo now that the mountain people are dead. 

 

Also TonDC and Polis, did some go around destroying the front half of the signs? Can we go to Ork City or Usetts or maybe Ticutt next. I want my home city to be the opposite so it can be called Chica. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

I don't think Jaha is only looking out for his survival. He just genuinely believes himself to be the only one who can save his people, that he's the messiah, that his life was saved back on the Ark for some great purpose. So now he's desperately looking for that purpose. I think it's grief after his son's death mixed with guilt for the deaths of many of the Ark's dwellers during his rule that make him behave this way. It's kinda sad, actually.

Also, I've never seen Grey's Anatomy, so I don't have any prejustice against the actor. From what I've seen on this show, he's doing a good job, imo.

[Sakura12]

It wasn't on the show, it was his antics off set. Isaiah Washington is a good actor but I can't see past his behavior on that set. Which has hurt his career and why he's on a CW show now. 

 

I guess I just don't like Messiah storylines, never have. I find them boring and dull. I didn't like Jaha in the first season either. But they do need a main villain next season and I can see Jaha going with AIJo;s thinking that humanity needs to be wiped out again because they are not good enough. He's insane enough to believe it and insane enough to think that he's the best leader to lead the ones that survive. He's thinks very highly of himself. 

[AzureOwl]

Also TonDC and Polis, did some go around destroying the front half of the signs? Can we go to Ork City or Usetts or maybe Ticutt next. I want my home city to be the opposite so it can be called Chica.

 

I think the writers are picking what syllables to use from the names based on convenience and ease of pronunciation. Washi doesn't roll of the tongue as easily as TonDC, and if they called the Grounder capitol Anna some viewers might get confused and think they are talking about a person.

 

As for Chicago, in the unlikely event that it is ever featured on the show (Google Maps tells me its almost a month's travel on foot from there to DC) you can be assured that they'll be calling it Chica, on account of what Cago means in Spanish.  But if you don't want to wait to visit Chica, I recommended you read Isaac Asimov's Pebble in the Sky.

[kingshearte]

I don't think Jaha is only looking out for his survival. He just genuinely believes himself to be the only one who can save his people, that he's the messiah, that his life was saved back on the Ark for some great purpose.

I agree. I think he legitimately believes that he and his quest are humanity's best (maybe only) hope for salvation. It's just that we, as (relatively) sane people find his actions so incomprehensible and ill-advised that we can't see the benefits that he, as a not-quite-sane sort, believes he can.

 

If they did push further along those lines for next season, with him totally antagonizing everyone else with whatever measures he's determined are necessary to "save" them, it would fit in with the show's focus on the greyness of morality and varying perceptions of good guys vs. bad guys.

[FurryFury]

Jaha (plus the AI and its resources, presumably) could be actually a more compelling villain than Cage Wallace and co. After all, he already has relationships with the other characters and we've been watching his journey since the first season. Now, it's not a given that they'll realize this potential, but I want to believe they would.

 

I'm also a bit wary that the motives of the AI would be too clichéd and simplistic. I realize my standard for the AI stories is currently Person of Interest which has spent way more time on fleshing out The Machine and Samaritan, but still, please, don't make it the usual "Humans are stupid/a disease/lower beings" stuff. I want something more fresh.

Edited March 25, 2015 by FurryFury

[Pauld123]

I am in Ireland so we are a little behind in getting the series, just seen the finale. The whole finale seemed like Rothernberg reads his bible. Moses was a raised in an exalted position in life but became a leader of the people. Moses tells Pharaoh to let his people go. He brings down plagues on them and in the end holds his staff to drown the entire Egyptian army. Eventually after leading his people home he is not allowed to enter the promised land but stands just over it looking down on it.

 

Throughout the last couple of episodes Clarke gradually changed from calling them "my friends" to "my people" she seemed to take on a feeling of responsibility like she was their protector. 

 

The episode left me quite emotionally shocked. We are so used to the whole sugar coated Hollywood "an it all worked out nicely" endings and also where the good guys can only ever do good and the bad are consistently bad. It is superb to see something that challenges our beliefs and makes us question our moral support

of a character.

[maczero]

I know the show probably doesn't have the budget for this, but I'd like to see more of the mutant monster animals.

 

Agreed.   Bring back Killa Gorilla!

BTW: did anyone not realize the woman was a hologram as soon as she showed up?

I did!  Too sexy and too clean to be an actual human living in a post apocalyptic world.

[kdm07]

Agreed.   Bring back Killa Gorilla!

That gorilla. I laughed out loud when it first appeared. I might change my mind about the mutant animals if they integrate them better into the overall story.

[FurryFury]

I'm a big fan of post-apocalyptic stuff (I blame Fallout, played it when i was 12), so monsters are right up my alley, but this gorilla really felt shoehorned in (plus, bad CGI... but I watch Once Upon A Time, so I can live with that). I wouldn't be averse to more development of the mutants in general, it's a classic trope for a reason.

[Agent Dark]

I'm a big fan of post-apocalyptic stuff (I blame Fallout, played it when i was 12), so monsters are right up my alley, but this gorilla really felt shoehorned in (plus, bad CGI... but I watch Once Upon A Time, so I can live with that). I wouldn't be averse to more development of the mutants in general, it's a classic trope for a reason.

Ah Fallout - love those games (btw, check out the recently released Wasteland 2 if you liked the Fallout games.  The original Wasteland was one of the major inspirations for Fallout).  This show reminded me heavily of Fallout when the Mountain Men were introduced, particularly of the Enclave in Fallout 3.  As long as there are no Deathclaws popping up.  Those things are scary.

[Agent Dark]

I'm a big fan of post-apocalyptic stuff (I blame Fallout, played it when i was 12), so monsters are right up my alley, but this gorilla really felt shoehorned in (plus, bad CGI... but I watch Once Upon A Time, so I can live with that). I wouldn't be averse to more development of the mutants in general, it's a classic trope for a reason.

Ah Fallout - love those games (btw, check out the recently released Wasteland 2 if you liked the Fallout games.  The original Wasteland was one of the major inspirations for Fallout).  This show reminded me heavily of Fallout when the Mountain Men were introduced, particularly of the Enclave in Fallout 3.  As long as there are no Deathclaws popping up.  Those things are scary.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Agent Dark

[FurryFury]

Not a fan of Wasteland 2, TBH. I've even played in the original one back in my day (although didn't finish it), but this one is a disappointment, I care about writing far too much to enjoy what is basically just a squad-based, combat-focused tactical RPG with thin story and characters.

 

This show reminded me heavily of Fallout when the Mountain Men were introduced, particularly of the Enclave in Fallout 3.

 

They reminded me of Vaults more (at first), but eventually, yeah, also Enclave (especially Fallout 2 Enclave, what with capturing tribals and experimenting on them). And the whole slight 50s vibe is definitely inspired by Fallout. I've already written about it in another episode thread, some of the writers on this show are definitely gamers, I also got Mass Effect allusions from this Reapers/Cerberus stuff.

Edited April 2, 2015 by FurryFury

[ybrik]

Binged watch the entire series over the last couple of weeks. Really surprised how good the show is.

 

This finale was compelling and appropriate ending to the season while also building for next season.

 

Really don't think I can express my thoughts about Clarke any better than others already have. She is a magnificent character and this was such a heart breaking episode for her. The writers did such a great job of structuring the story where in episode 1 she has a chance to save her people and escaping but it would kill all the Mountain people. She gets talked down by Jasper and sees it as a line she can't/doesn't want to cross. She works the entire season to try to avoid this but is forced to cross the line. Her leaving/not returning to Camp Jaha works for me. She needs to find a way to live with everything she has done.

 

Interested to see where Bellamy and Octavia go from here now that they are in the camp and both seem to be unlikely to follow orders from Kane and Abby. I wouldn't mind seeing Octavia as more of a leader and seeing how she handles it. She was really judgmental of Clarke's decisions so it would be interesting if she has to experience a fraction of what Clarke had to. With Bellamy it would be interesting to see how he's matured as a leader compared to how he was at the beginning of the series.

 

I do worry that Jasper is going to be exasperatingly broody next season. He was definitely giving off the vibe that he wasn't going to be forgiven Monty, Clarke and Bellamy anytime soon. Of course I would love for someone to point out how stupid his plan was. Also I kept thinking that he could have at least unchained someone before running off for Maya. I know she was dying but he just left all the Arkers chained up.

 

I didn't mind Jaha's storyline. His turn this season has been well done. The belief in his own destiny is causing him to believe that his judgment is infallible. This definitely can make for an interesting villain.

[ElleMo]

If a man with one hand claps in the forest and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

Cage looks dead, but what if he's just really, really dazed? I would rather Lincoln had lopped off his head. Cage was a turd.

 

Is the sexy AI the one who nuked the whole planet 97 years ago? 

 

1.  I am worried that Emerson (the guard who ran off) finds him and cauterizes the wound, thus saving him.

2, That's my guess too. I think the AI is the "she" that the guy in the video gave the code to.

[allthatglitters]

I've just completed this season,

 

.......

 

I don't understand why they had to be in such a rush with the marrow treatments, though. Yeah, living underground was getting old, but they'd been doing it for 97 years. Why not draw out the treatments over a longer period so the kids didn't have to be harvested to death? I guess the answer is that Cage was an asshole.

 

Me neither.  I always wondered why the Mountain People saw no benefit, or even a sense of kinship with the SPs technically advanced space engineering lot. In fact, why was Mount Weather a part of the first 100 landing plan?  That means there was some kind of plan in place, only carried out early because of the oxygen shortage. Were the MP some scientific community set up on Earth, and the ones sent to the space stations were like a population generator backup?. Or did some group of survivors crawl out of their own homemade bunkers and break into Mount Weather decades ago?. All of this is yet to be explained. 

 

But on to the point, why wouldn't Dante, if not his psycho son, at least earlier push for the idea that Kane even suggested himself, although under duress. They could donate. In a more controlled clean surgical environment. Small donations over intervals. Especially when a Sky Person died outright from other causes, they could be instant bone marrow donors. Yes it would take longer, but as someone else mentioned, they hung in there for almost a century, surely they would rather have a peaceful situation with an ally much like themselves just for future security if nothing else. In exchange for the marrow donations, The Mountain people would have to share their power sources and and their technology. Everybody wins.

 

The episode left me quite emotionally shocked. We are so used to the whole sugar coated Hollywood "an it all worked out nicely" endings and also where the good guys can only ever do good and the bad are consistently bad. It is superb to see something that challenges our beliefs and makes us question our moral support

of a character.

 

Its unsettling how this show, while unusually interesting, seems to suggest that anyone could be a ruthless mass murderer, given the 'right' circumstances...so don't be in too much a rush to condemn mass murder. Seems like there is a time and a place for everything. Flynn, who was the only one thinking maybe they should try something instead of more killing, is the first to turn into a monster. Clarke would be appalled, but soon would not only knowingly allow hundreds of her own people to be blown into pieces, but also not long after that push the lever and cause even more innocent people to die horrible torturous deaths.  Yes she was backed into a corner, but whose fault is that? The Author. ie. The writers. I get they are putting a different spin on it. any other show the 'good' mountain citizens would be secretly quietly shuffled up to level 6 by Bellamy and Jasper, just in time. And even if Clarke thought she was killing them all, there'd be the big reveal to her later in the show that she isn't a child killer after all. This show is too much the other way IMO. It is tiring to watch a show where its all 'might is right'. Where killing the 'other' and xenophobia is the only way characters are allowed to exist.

 

Even though the writing is so full of it I am permanently suspended above all belief for every plot twist, I still like the premise, and the characters, and it is entertaining, so I'll be watching Season 3.

[Lady Calypso]

Good ending to a mostly ok season. I think the season got better in the second half.

There has been a lot of mass murders on this show, yet this particular one was surprising. I know it had to be done, but I think it was seeing it happen on screen, seeing all of those people die. I do think there was no option to escape; people would have had to die either way. Cage wasn't going to compromise and get the Sky People to just donate and save all of those lives. I think it really was an impossible choice, one that seemed to break Clarke. I did like Maya's final words ("None of us is innocent") because I think that was supposed to help explain the situation. It still was a choice that not just Clarke, but Monty and Bellamy now have to deal with. Along with Clarke's missile deaths, she's understandably a mess. Being that kind of leader is taking its toll.

Jasper's not going to like those three very much in the next season, that's for sure. I bet he'll be going down a very dark path; unlike Finn or Jaha's dark path this past season, it'll actually make sense for Jasper if he decides to take more risks. 

So, finally we get a Bellamy/Clarke scene. It feels like forever; I like the two working together, so hopefully they're reunited soon.

I did enjoy Cage being taken down the way he did. I also liked the way Dante left; very fitting to his character, I think.

I'm not so sure about the Jaha/Murphy thing going on, but I guess we'll see more next season. All I know is Jaha really crossed some lines here. I know this is a show where we've seen practically every character now cross unforgiveable lines, only to cross back over and earn forgiveness, but it might take me some time with Jaha. The way he just sacrificed his team, excluding Murphy, was cold. 

I do think the AI story could be interesting; then again, just getting off of Agents of SHIELD's AI arc, I'm wondering how it'll compare. 

Seriously, though, I'm really only asking for more Bellamy with Clarke and Octavia. Also, more Raven. Oh, and more Kane and Lexa. Yeah, that's all I really want. I guess I'll move on to the next season in the morning to see if my hopes come true or if I'll be disappointed. 

[kingshearte]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I know this is a show where we've seen practically every character now cross unforgiveable lines, only to cross back over and earn forgiveness

I also wanted to chime in and thank you for sharing your thoughts as you go through all this with fresh eyes. It's really interesting to revisit the events of this season and compare your thoughts (fairly similar to mine at the time, in many cases) to mine now. Your point above is, I think, what makes the show simultaneously fascinating and frustrating, because at a certain point, it becomes really hard to root for anyone, but you're still asked to. At this point, I don't think I even have a favourite character ("barely like" is probably my most positive feeling toward most of them), but I still find it quite compelling, and continue to look forward to seeing where everything goes. Looking forward to seeing what you think as you go along, too.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

I also wanted to chime in and thank you for sharing your thoughts as you go through all this with fresh eyes. It's really interesting to revisit the events of this season and compare your thoughts (fairly similar to mine at the time, in many cases) to mine now. Your point above is, I think, what makes the show simultaneously fascinating and frustrating, because at a certain point, it becomes really hard to root for anyone, but you're still asked to. At this point, I don't think I even have a favourite character ("barely like" is probably my most positive feeling toward most of them), but I still find it quite compelling, and continue to look forward to seeing where everything goes. Looking forward to seeing what you think as you go along, too.

I'm surprised at myself because as much as I've been complaining, I've still been powering through the series; I'm just about to start the third season with so few spoilers, as well. It's nice to get fresh eyes on a series and still be able to talk about it. Clearly, I like something about the show if I'm still watching, even through all the complaining about the characters.