Ratings, Scheduling, and Watching for Cancellation/Renewal

[Miss Dee]

If anyone can suggest a great Sleepy Hollow-related and theme-related phrase to put in front, have at it!

I thought, with us on pins and needles, it'd be great to have a place to discuss our hopes, fears, and predictions for renewal (IT WILL BE A RENEWAL, RIGHT? RIGHT?!!). When we get a season 3 ("WHEN", NOT "IF"! ARE YOU HEARING ME, FOX?!!!!), we can use it as a central place to discuss (possibly angst over) ratings and any scheduling changes or updates.

I thought I'd throw out a topic to start us off with: does the announcement of Goffman's departure make you more or less certain that we'll get a Season 3? And who would you like most to take the reins, whether a likely choice, unlikely gamble, or pie-in-the-sky dreaming?

[DJG1122]

The first notices said 'sources confirm...Goffman stepping down.' If SH was to be cancelled, wouldn't it have been 'Mark Goffman states he's moving to CBS' without any mention of him stepping down from SH? Methinks renewal.

[AmandaPanda]

His departure definitely gives a huge hint at renewal. It's also important to note that he isn't just leaving Sleepy Hollow, he's leaving Fox altogether. This, coupled with The Following taking a hit in ratings last night, is a very good sign that we'll see another season. The major test is going to be next week. Most shows took a hit last night because of Daylight Savings Time. If The Following's numbers stay down next week, then we can rest easy for a while.

[Trini]

I thought this was a possibility. Fox wanted a season 3, but only after massive behind-the-scenes changes. If it comes back, it'll probably be another short season.

[HalcyonDays]

I thought this was a possibility. Fox wanted a season 3, but only after massive behind-the-scenes changes. If it comes back, it'll probably be another short season.

 

3/4 of the writers who were there in season 1, were there in season 2. Goffman though set the tone and also probably forced or "pushed" the focus onto all things Katrina, since it's all he could ever talk about. That, and refusing to acknowledge Ichabbie chemistry (friends or otherwise) and the importance of Nicole Beharie, which was a huge mistake. The show has ended with a clean slate with the problem characters gone and the core four still alive and kicking.

 

All they need is to find a showrunner (and I am sure there are many people clammering for this type of opportunity) and start to lay out season 3, and there is hope.

 

SpoilerTV has the renewal index for the show at a 2.37 - Certain renewal. The closer to 2.40, the closer to cancellation, so this is good. The Mindy Project and the New Girl are slightly worse at 2.39, while Bones is 2.36. All within each other and the others will most likely be renewed. Even Brooklyn 99 is a 3.33, yet it was renewed.

 

Cancellation Bear has it at a toss-up - 50/50 chance - so we will see. They did downgrade it to the toss-up after the 1.2 series low, but I don't think have fully factored in the finale. Again, we'll see. However, if you look at the list if other programs, there is not much there that will be renewed. Not all of the pilots will fly and Luther has been delayed, so my rainbows and lollipop mind is telling me good things.

 

I do think it will be a 13 episode season, and I am perfectly fine with that. The 18 episode season would have been good too, if Goffman didn't waste it with back and forth Katrina/CFD and never moving the story forward.

[AmandaPanda]

Cancellation Bear did make a good point today that Fox might get out of the limited series business entirely. So, they could scrap both SH and The Following in favor of shows that could potentially do a full 22-episode season. Limited series were something that Kevin Reilly pushed for and he's long gone now. 

[phoenics]

I'm hopeful that this is positive for renewal. Deals like this with Goffman don't happen overnight - so he's been working on this for a while. My head canon is that Fox held off on leaking that he's out until he found a new gig.

Of course, Goffman could have just kept this news while under a gag order from Fox until the season ran out too... to keep ratings from slipping (people assuming it's canceled).

I'm still very hopeful for a renewal.

The timing of the articles feel important - the leak that Goffman was OUT came before news that he'd moved to CBS. The fact that he's not even seemingly associated with Wiseman, Orci, Katzman and co anymore is extremely telling. He's on a completely different network and has nothing to do anymore with the creators of SH.

This confirms (in my mind) that Goffman may have been "show runner" of SH in name for all of S1, but he wasn't the "official" show runner - meaning - he was on training wheels with heavy input from Iscove, Wiseman, Orci and Katzman. When they really left toward the middle and end of S1, that's when the show started going off the rails and that's when Goffman's influence was larger than theirs.

And that continued into S2 where he tried to reimagine the show in order to put his muse front and center.

Nothing but Wiseman, Orci and Katzman coming to my doorstep to prove to me otherwise will convince me that's not true.

Cancellation Bear did make a good point today that Fox might get out of the limited series business entirely. So, they could scrap both SH and The Following in favor of shows that could potentially do a full 22-episode season. Limited series were something that Kevin Reilly pushed for and he's long gone now.

Because of TPJ and TH on Empire, Fox will always be in the limited series business. Neither wants to do full seasons because they want to still be able to do movies - and Fox is in NO position to convince them otherwise. And given the disaster that was SH in a slightly longer season, I doubt Fox will rock the boat there.

[AmandaPanda]

The Empire comparison is a great point. I couldn't remember for certain if Empire was a limited series or it was just given a 12-episode order since it started in January. Thank the lord that Empire is doing so well, though, because without it, Fox definitely wouldn't have an incentive to stay in the limited series business. 

[phoenics]

Exactly - Taraji and Terence were adamant about keeping the seasons short so they could still do movies - and that may just save us all.

Besides - Fox can't afford to cut limited seasons - they can't even launch new shows (well, more than 1 or 2) limited shows without them bombing all over the place... the list of casualties this season is epic. I don't think the answer is to drop limited episode shows... without that, what would happen when a 22-episode show tanks? They'd have nothing at all to replace it for a whole year.

[Artsda]

Empire's season 2 Fox gave it a 13 episode order + back 9. So it's possible it will get a lot more next season.

[phoenics]

But that's only if they convince TPJ and TH to do all of the episodes.

[phoenics]

I read a post on tumblr from an anon source that claims Fox/The show is interviewing people for new show runner - and that some Buffy/Fringe and X Files. A mention of rumblings for Whedon (screams loudly) to come and write a few episodes was also in the note. The note said to look for a renewal announcement in a few weeks.

The person on tumblr who posted it (it's from an anon who apparently drops spoilers occasionally to the person's inbox) said that this anon is right 100% of the time, so she's feeling like this could be true.

Joss Whedon? That just sounds too good to be true - although anon does say it's just rumblings. But the fact that they're looking for Buffy-esque writers and Fringe writers makes me happy.

Actual mythology and rules book anyone?!

I'd love it if Whedon did a couple of episodes though.

[Matt K]

I wouldn't mind seeing J.H Wyman take over.  Almost Human had some issues but the buddy cop part was not (he also showran Fringe).  

 

That said, is there any reason season 3 has to be a limited series? I assumed the first 2 were because Fox was in the business of doing those but it didn't seem like anyone on the show is big enough to demand less episodes.

[phoenics]

I think we were only assuming S3 would be limited because it had a better chance for renewal that way. Maybe it would be renewal with an optional back 9? I'll take 13 episodes happily if they get back on track and get their ratings back up.

[Artsda]

But that's only if they convince TPJ and TH to do all of the episodes.

It's about what is in their contract. Who knows what was agreed on, they could have agreed to different stipulations for a 2nd season. 10 episodes without them would be a huge stretch for Fox to even consider, I don't think they'll be considering episodes without Cookie.

 

THR has an article about Empire today. Fox wants more than 12, Lee Daniels wants 12, Danny Strong says not 22 but he's ok with more than 12. So they'll probably all meet in the middle somewhere.

[phoenics]

I could see them doing between 13-15 episodes. Maybe 18, but I'd be sad to see that.

ETA: I'm speaking of Empire above - sorry - it was in response to the post above mine.

As for SH - I think they should do 13 and leave it at that.

Edited March 11, 2015 by phoenics

[blixie]

 

I could see them doing between 13-15 episodes.

 

I think Empire is such a different show, it's a soap and I love how fast paced it is, but they have glossed over stuff that any soap worth it's salt would have let percolate. (Heh, sorry I can't use that word w/o thinking of afternoon dance shows that don't exist anymore!)

 

I think 13-15 would be the sweet spot for it, and honestly should have been for SH too, but I think SH's more high wire premise really makes it safer to stick with 13 max for S3. I'm guessing Fox will do everything it can to convince Lee/Taraji/Terrance to commit to more episodes, including more money and opportunities within the studio. They need to give TPH whatever the Sam Hill she wants.

Edited March 11, 2015 by blixie

[HalcyonDays]

I could see them doing between 13-15 episodes. Maybe 18, but I'd be sad to see that.

 

I have no problem with 18 episodes, but I can see they reduce it back to 13. The problem wasn't the episode number. It was the writers and their inability to advance the Katrina/CFD plot. Everything else was resolved at break neck pace, but we had to endure 15 episodes to Katrina waffling (that's right, Ichabod - a plate of waffling!) back and forth on Henry, and Abraham and napping and fainting and magic making. That was the problem. With the right show runner and a clear plan and show bible, 18 episodes would be perfect.

[LeeLeePanda]

I think Empire is such a different show, it's a soap and I love how fast paced it is, but they have glossed over stuff that any soap worth it's salt would have let

. (Heh, sorry I can't use that word w/o thinking of afternoon dance shows that don't exist anymore!)

 

I think 13-15 would be the sweet spot for it, and honestly should have been for SH too, but I think SH's more high wire premise really makes it safer to stick with 13 max for S3. I'm guessing Fox will do everything it can to convince Lee/Taraji/Terrance to commit to more episodes, including more money and opportunities within the studio. They need to give TPH whatever the Sam Hill she wants.

I think that season 3 should be no more than 15 episodes. I also think they should follow the model Lost used in its last 3 seasons: air all the episodes without a broadcast interruption. I believe Empire is doing the same thing, and I think that's one of many reasons the ratings are going up. No one wants to miss an episode and risk falling behind. Or give them 12 with an option for 3 more if things go well.

[jhlipton]

Joss Whedon? That just sounds too good to be true - although anon does say it's just rumblings. But the fact that they're looking for Buffy-esque writers and Fringe writers makes me happy.

I'd love it if Whedon did a couple of episodes though.

 

Much as I love BtVS and Firefly (but not Serenity), I have vote a big fat NO to Whedon doing anything for SH. He would kill Jenny or Frank, just for the sads.  No thanks.

Joss Whedon? That just sounds too good to be true - although anon does say it's just rumblings. But the fact that they're looking for Buffy-esque writers and Fringe writers makes me happy.

I'd love it if Whedon did a couple of episodes though.

 

Much as I love BtVS and Firefly (but not Serenity), I have vote a big fat NO to Whedon doing anything for SH. He would kill Jenny or Frank, just for the sads.  No thanks.

[HalcyonDays]

I never watched BtVS or Firefly or Fringe. Only X-Files. Any writer from the X-Files is more than welcome to join the SH writing team. THEY knew how to develop mythology and background and an exciting show that still kept the core leads front and centre. Granted, Chris Carter led the way, but they learned at his heels, and that bodes well for SH.

[Timetoread]

Cancellation Bear did make a good point today that Fox might get out of the limited series business entirely. So, they could scrap both SH and The Following in favor of shows that could potentially do a full 22-episode season. Limited series were something that Kevin Reilly pushed for and he's long gone now. 

 

Actually I'm thinking that Empire has not only changed the game on them considering limited series (get higher caliber actors in for a stint on the small screen while maintaining their movie careers, like Empire and True Detective), but that it has also blown the lid completely off the concept that a black leading lady can bring in the viewers.  I think there's a possibility that the success of Empire will not only calm FEARS about the natural chemistry that Nicole and Tom have, but embrace and promote it.  This should be bolstered by the fact that SH was a runaway hit, like Empire when that chemistry happened by accident.  The show tanked when they pulled away from it.  My guess is that we are going to see a LOT of Nicole next year.  I just hope the writing holds up.  Which leads me to... 

 

I never watched BtVS or Firefly or Fringe. Only X-Files. Any writer from the X-Files is more than welcome to join the SH writing team. THEY knew how to develop mythology and background and an exciting show that still kept the core leads front and centre. Granted, Chris Carter led the way, but they learned at his heels, and that bodes well for SH.

 

I watched BTVS, Angel, and Fireffly from the beginning and was a Whedonite when most didn't know what that means.  I want to say that there is no way in hell Joss is coming to SH.   He's doing the Avengers movies and taking Hollywood by storm - what us Whedonites always wanted for him.  Many of his writers are still working and are very talented and respected (but please no Jane Espenson - IMO she ruined Battlestar Galactica trying to make it like Buffy).   As for the X-Files, that was all Chris Carter, as noted in the precipitous decline in quality of Supernatural after his death - he'd have been PERFECT for this show.  But I think we are all on the right track about the TYPE of showrunner that is needed to keep this ship sailing.

[HalcyonDays]

I watched BTVS, Angel, and Fireffly from the beginning and was a Whedonite when most didn't know what that means.  I want to say that there is no way in hell Joss is coming to SH.   He's doing the Avengers movies and taking Hollywood by storm - what us Whedonites always wanted for him.  Many of his writers are still working and are very talented and respected (but please no Jane Espenson - IMO she ruined Battlestar Galactica trying to make it like Buffy).   As for the X-Files, that was all Chris Carter, as noted in the precipitous decline in quality of Supernatural after his death - he'd have been PERFECT for this show.  But I think we are all on the right track about the TYPE of showrunner that is needed to keep this ship sailing.

 

OMG, you freaked me out. I read the bold as Chris Carter died while working on Supernatural and was like NO!! When?? Phew - no, he's still alive and never worked on Supernatural (the TV show). Maybe another Chris Carter? Or I misread what you wrote?

 

And yeah, Whedon is never going to bother with SH unless he sees it as an fun side project to see if he can return it to it's former glory. He's too high profile for it, and the show is not.

 

Just get someone who actually is interested in this type of genre and the characters. You already have amazing actors that can bring the writing to life.

[Wynterwolf]

OMG, you freaked me out. I read the bold as Chris Carter died while working on Supernatural and was like NO!! When?? Phew - no, he's still alive and never worked on Supernatural (the TV show). Maybe another Chris Carter? Or I misread what you wrote?

 

Kim Manners was a director and executive producer on both X-file and Supernatural and die from cancer while working on Supernatural.  He is sorely missed in the Supernatural fandom, but the ups and down of the show have been about much more than just him.  

 

Just get someone who actually is interested in this type of genre and the characters. You already have amazing actors that can bring the writing to life.

 

 

Seriously, the stage is beautifully set... who wouldn't want to play in this sandbox!!  

[Timetoread]

OMG, you freaked me out. I read the bold as Chris Carter died while working on Supernatural and was like NO!! When?? Phew - no, he's still alive and never worked on Supernatural (the TV show). Maybe another Chris Carter? Or I misread what you wrote?

 

 

LOL LOL LOL!!  I am SOOOO sorry!  I didn't mean to kill Chris Carter.  His name crossed circuits in my adled brain with Kim Manners (who did die and was the X-Files/Supernatural guy).   Chris is alive and well and a good choice for this.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Timetoread

[HalcyonDays]

Thanks Wynterwolf   for the clarification - I do remember that about Kim Manners, now that you mention it. So sad.

 

ETA: Timetoread, I was like wait, what? When?? Thankfully we have IMDB!!

 

Seriously, the stage is beautifully set... who wouldn't want to play in this sandbox!!

 

I've seen fanfiction that is superior - vastly superior - to what the writers have given us this season. All you need are passionate writers who love the universe, the material and are excited to develop it, a la Chris Carter and company. It was clear that Goffman and the others didn't care one way or the other, unless it had to do with Katrina (and even then...). When the writers can't keep recent major plot points straight, that's a problem. Just get someone with passion for the show.

[phoenics]

Thanks Wynterwolf   for the clarification - I do remember that about Kim Manners, now that you mention it. So sad.

 

ETA: Timetoread, I was like wait, what? When?? Thankfully we have IMDB!!

 

 

I've seen fanfiction that is superior - vastly superior - to what the writers have given us this season. All you need are passionate writers who love the universe, the material and are excited to develop it, a la Chris Carter and company. It was clear that Goffman and the others didn't care one way or the other, unless it had to do with Katrina (and even then...). When the writers can't keep recent major plot points straight, that's a problem. Just get someone with passion for the show.

I so agree... What bothers me though is that with the success of Scandal prior to this, they should have known already that audiences were ready for a show starring a black lead. The problem is that with the exit of the Fox executive who was pushing diversity as necessary for well-done shows (can't remember his name right now), diversity as something to strive for BECAUSE it makes shows better overall got lost at Fox and likely SH. At some point, TPTB decided that the show needed to be "cured" of its diversity problem (i.e., the diversity needed to be minimized and erased), so they pushed Katrina front and center AND brought on Hawley in a really transparent attempt to whitewash the show.

I still do not believe that K&O and Wiseman wanted the diversity erased. What I believe happened is that KW talked with Goffman and Kurtzman about her ideas to make Katrina more relevant - KW admitted in an interview that she did this with both men. I think Kurtzman okay'ed the concept of making Katrina more relevant (and probably turning her evil), but I don't think he demanded HOW they made that happen and I am not really sure K&O ever meant for Goffman to literally shove NB to the background and practically erase all of the other PoC from the canvas. I still believe that was all Goffman.

When you add that Fox had to step in to stop Goffman from leaving Abbie (for nearly the whole season if you believe Goffman's "joke" about this) in Purgatory for a really long time, I think it's clear the main issue WAS Goffman. It was Goffman who always - ALWAYS - brought up Katrina in interviews, even if the question was about Abbie. It was Goffman who made the comment about leaving Abbie in Purgatory for nearly the entire season to "make her experience what Katrina experienced". Goffman literally wanted to try to sideline Abbie that way - I guess to counteract all of the fandom support Abbie had that KW complained about?

Here's why I'm convinced this was all Goffman - when the finale came out - Goffman kept trying to say that this was their plan all along. I don't doubt that the plan was to make Katrina evil (well, not much), what I doubt is HOW. Goffman was planning a full season role reversal for Abbie and Katrina - with Katrina out of Purgatory (and winning over fans for her as nuLead and Ichatrina - Goffman thought) and Abbie in Purgatory (and losing fans, Goffman thought). I do not think K&O would have cosigned that. I know Iscove would have been like WTF?

Here's the thing: K&O weren't writing this show and giving it daily direction. Goffman WAS. It was his direction and leadership that led to the weird character mess of Ichabod this season. It was his direction and leadership that sidelined Jenny and Irving all season. It was his direction and leadership that made EVERY character on the show constantly praise Katrina to prop her up. It was his direction and leadership that gave us moments with Katrina elevated to the same level as Abbie's witness status afforded her. And finally, it was his direction and leadership that made it impossible for him to see that the story for Katrina being evil was already there - he didn't need to rush it - all he had to do was reveal she'd been shady all along - perhaps hiding some big secret that would finally shove Ichabod away from her and THEN she'd go full on evil. We wouldn't have had to suffer that stupid Henry beckoning her from beyond thing - which still makes no sense because Henry's ass should be in HELL. I can only hope that's where both of them went.

So my contention is that K&O may have approved the "make Katrina more relevant this season and make her evil eventually" direction, but they didn't control the EXECUTION of that. Better writers could have done that story without making Katrina front and center and sidelining the leading lady of the show and assassinating the character of the leading male and sidelining the other PoC. Goffman couldn't do that.

KW getting the approval of K&O/Goffman to make her character more relevant was just the "in" Goffman needed (hell, he probably worked with KW on the "ideas" to present to K&O) to shove KW into the leading role he obviously believed she should have had all along.

So glad he's gone.

[HalcyonDays]

See ^^^ post. See this amazing post by phoenics??

 

My response.....(Spoilertagged for scrolling purposes)

 

[jhlipton]

Love you both, phoenics and HalcyonDays!

[Happytobehere]

I read a post on tumblr from an anon source that claims Fox/The show is interviewing people for new show runner - and that some Buffy/Fringe and X Files. A mention of rumblings for Whedon (screams loudly) to come and write a few episodes was also in the note. The note said to look for a renewal announcement in a few weeks.The person on tumblr who posted it (it's from an anon who apparently drops spoilers occasionally to the person's inbox) said that this anon is right 100% of the time, so she's feeling like this could be true.Joss Whedon? That just sounds too good to be true - although anon does say it's just rumblings. But the fact that they're looking for Buffy-esque writers and Fringe writers makes me happy.Actual mythology and rules book anyone?!I'd love it if Whedon did a couple of episodes though.

Given Whedon's less than stellar track record with non-white characters, why would his being at Sleepy Hollow give us anything but Goffman Part 2?

[phoenics]

Given Whedon's less than stellar track record with non-white characters, why would his being at Sleepy Hollow give us anything but Goffman Part 2?

Eh - good point. :(

See ^^^ post. See this amazing post by phoenics??

 

My response.....(Spoilertagged for scrolling purposes)

 

*blushes*

Thanks HD!

[jhlipton]

Given Whedon's less than stellar track record with non-white characters, why would his being at Sleepy Hollow give us anything but Goffman Part 2?

 

I was just going to post the same thing.  

[DJG1122]

Excellent theory phoenics! Everything fits together and makes sense. Thanks!

Edited March 12, 2015 by DJG1122

[blixie]

 

iven Whedon's less than stellar track record with non-white characters, why would his being at Sleepy Hollow give us anything but Goffman Part 2?

 

I'm not rooting for Joss as showrunner, but I loved Zoe and think she was pretty great black female character, so I could definitely see him doing Abbie justice as a writer.

 

I know someone perfect for the showruning job @ The Originals (NOT PLEC), but I think she is happy on that show, she loves her vampires. I'd love to see David Nutter, but he's at GoT, and with my luck if they go for an X Files person we'll end up with Shiban or Spotnitz.

 

 

Here's the thing: K&O weren't writing this show and giving it daily direction. Goffman WAS.

 

Yup, this is what it boils down to for me, I'm not absolving Kurtzman and Orci of screwing the pooch, they picked this turd, and continue to support him in his career, BUT they weren't running the ship they left the building, and while their names were still on it, that was in name only. Goffman is responsible for S2 in all the ways that really count (execution and all that stupid shit he said in social and mainstream media), good riddance to bad trash.

[jhlipton]

I'm not rooting for Joss as showrunner, but I loved Zoe and think she was pretty great black female character, so I could definitely see him doing Abbie justice as a writer.

 

Zoe was pretty awesome, as was Jasmine -- I put 9/10th of that on Gina Torres, who can sell a character like nobody's business.

[phoenics]

I know someone perfect for the showruning job @ The Originals (NOT PLEC), but I think she is happy on that show, she loves her vampires. I'd love to see David Nutter, but he's at GoT, and with my luck if they go for an X Files person we'll end up with Shiban or Spotnitz.

Wait - did David Nutter leave The Flash? He'd been doing some episodes for them - many of them were heavy WestAllen ones... ! If he's not with them anymore, then THAT finally explains to me the tone and shift in writing and why Iris has been pretty much sidelined since the mid-season finale.

Crap!

I love David Nutter - he was totally behind the Max/Liz amazingness of Roswell - when he left to help start Smallville, Roswell kinda tanked without his influence.

I knew something was wrong with The Flash lately.

[Nanrad]

I never watched BtVS or Firefly or Fringe. Only X-Files. Any writer from the X-Files is more than welcome to join the SH writing team. THEY knew how to develop mythology and background and an exciting show that still kept the core leads front and centre. Granted, Chris Carter led the way, but they learned at his heels, and that bodes well for SH.

 

I'd love it if an X-Files person came over; they did very well with male/female dynamics as well as the investigation part. And, honestly, I love seeing X Files alumni in other shows. Most of the major players from the show have moved onto other successful shows and/or built a very good names for themselves. 

[Iamsweetdee]

Wait - did David Nutter leave The Flash? He'd been doing some episodes for them - many of them were heavy WestAllen ones... ! If he's not with them anymore, then THAT finally explains to me the tone and shift in writing and why Iris has been pretty much sidelined since the mid-season finale.Crap!I love David Nutter - he was totally behind the Max/Liz amazingness of Roswell - when he left to help start Smallville, Roswell kinda tanked without his influence.I knew something was wrong with The Flash lately.

Nutter was never "with" The Flash. He directed two episodes. That's been his m.o. for the last several years. He likes doing (As in directing) Pilots and then a "big" episode for a show. He doesn't run them. As for Game of Thrones, he's only directed the last two for the upcoming season.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Iamsweetdee

[Jipijapa]

"Buffy/Fringe"?  Sounds like they're talking about David Fury, whose resume includes both?

[AmandaPanda]

Good news for SH: The Following only clocked a 1.1 rating this week. Cancellation Bear moved it down to a toss-up, so it's at the same level as SH. 

[Happytobehere]

Good news for SH: The Following only clocked a 1.1 rating this week. Cancellation Bear moved it down to a toss-up, so it's at the same level as SH.

It's actually worse when you consider that Bacon cannot come cheap and The Following, unlike SH is not a Fox owned show. With all things being equal, they still come out better with SH because it's stars are less expensive and they make more money off of the show itself.

Love KB but The Following is a mess and three seasons in, it has still not managed to recover from the mistakes of the first season. SH on the other is taking steps to correct its season 2 mistep. So once again, advantage SH.

[Jipijapa]

I dunno about Bacon not coming cheap... it always seemed to me that The Following must have been a sweetheart deal, some sort of inside favor so he could start earning back some of that money he lost in the Madoff scandal.  I don't know how else you could explain this horrible show lasting for three seasons.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Jipijapa

[paulvdb]

Renewed for 18 episode season 3

[AmandaPanda]

Woohoo! Definitely didn't think we'd get an announcement before May, but The Following's ratings tumble must have sealed the deal.

[HalcyonDays]

Woohoo! Definitely didn't think we'd get an announcement before May, but The Following's ratings tumble must have sealed the deal.

 

Is it wrong that I'm glad The Following did lousy this season. (I don't watch it). But at it's lowest, SH didn't do so poorly in the ratings, AND we have all of the drama going on with fans, shipping and behind the scenes. Crazy.

 

On that note, Cancellation Bear put it as a toss up to be renewed - 50/50, while SpoilerTV kept it in the "Certain to be Renewed" index, and now we know they were right. TVLine just two days ago included SH in their shows to be worried about.

 

But right now - who cares. Show is Renewed!!

[tennisgurl]

Victory Dance time! Best news I have heard all day! 

[GracieV]

I'm really happy at the news! Here's to a new start and an excellent Season 3!

[Criminey]

This is stellar news! Now Tom won't have to answer awkward question in Birmingham this weekend!!

Edited March 18, 2015 by Criminey

[Jipijapa]

Actually, I think what sealed the deal was Cookie Lyon...

 

(and a showrunner change)

[savinggrace]

So glad the show is not only renewed but Goffman is gone. I wasn't quite ready to let go of Abby and Crane.