Spoilers and Discussion

[whyme]

Glee concerns itself with narrative sense? News to me. They seem to do whatever they want and blame the fans for not understanding the genius inherent in the color orange as inspiration.

Agree!  They keep telling us what the story is suppose to be vs. showing us on screen.  Wonder if they will ever admit to their mistakes?

[whyme]

 

What I worry about the Sam and Rachel dating story is that RIB think they are doing a PSA of how a young person deals with the death of their significant other and moving forward. I anticipate lots of meta speeches, even one about how people don't think she should date Sam, but here they are.  Just like they had Sam talk about angry bloggers when he was dating Brittany.  Can you imagine what a bind they would have been in if Rachel were still dating Brody when Finn died.  How would they have handled that storyline.

[ComfySweater]

Can you imagine what a bind they would have been in if Rachel were still dating Brody when Finn died.  How would they have handled that storyline.

Poorly.

[truthaboutluv]

Chris is great actor but I think the reason he is able to do a great job in this story is because he knows exactly what Kurt is suppose to be feeling in this story. So he is able to play that without worrying. Just like Max is able to play his part well because he knows his character is suppose to be in love with Blaine.

 

 

This. If you consider this whole stupid storyline from all the characters' perspective -  with Kurt you have someone who broke up with his fiance because clearly something wasn't working considering they were fighting over the dumbest things. So on a practical level, he realized and maybe still realizes that at this point in their lives, they're not right for each other. But the heart wants what it wants and so while his head says "we need to be apart", his heart says he misses and still wants to be with Blaine. So he goes after him and is smacked with the realization that Blaine's moved on (I'm not even factoring the who here for now, just that he has...). That to me is pretty easy to understand and relate to. 

 

With Karofsky, someone who's never been a long term character with a long history of relationships/motivations, etc. the last we saw was that he was trying to come to terms with who he is. So they bring him back saying that he's now out and open. So I imagine Max just plays the whole thing as Karofksy is now an openly gay happy guy who finds Blaine attractive and likes him. It doesn't have to be some great love story and nothing deeper than that. Not to mention I doubt he's in any way the focus here and merely the obstacle used to create angst for Kurt and Blaine.

 

With Blaine we get that he wasn't the catalyst for the breakup, so he essentially was dumped and then fell apart spectacularly because of it. And now he's sort of picked himself back up and moved on romantically but it's with someone who has a really, really uncomfortable history with his ex-boyfriend. So the question of how this gets played becomes one, are they just ignoring the elephant in the room completely and acting like this is not someone Kurt had a very painful history with? And if they're not ignoring that then how does Darren reconcile Blaine's decision to not only fall for but date someone with such a painful and awkward history with him and the man he supposedly loved so much. Is he truly just really into Karofsky despite everything or does he have temporary amnesia and forgot about that or does he just not care? Is it a case of "it was in the past, I'm single, Kurt was the one who chose to end things so I can date anyone" or what?

 

And the thing is, on a well written show maybe there would be something deeper and more complex going on with the characters but as this is Glee we know that isn't the case. The fact is from what I read about the episodes, everything that happens with Kurt and Blaine with all the angsting/romantic drama, could have been achieved with Blaine dating any *insert random gay guy". The fact is RIB wanted the shock that came with it being Karofsky but as usual wanted it with no decent follow through and none of the actual good writing and decent characterization that comes with these kinds of things. And so the result is just that everyone looks bad and the whole thing is a mess and awful.

Edited January 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[whyme]

This. If you consider this whole stupid storyline from all the characters' perspective -  with Kurt you have someone who broke up with his fiance because clearly something wasn't working considering they were fighting over the dumbest things. So on a practical level, he realized and maybe still realizes that at this point in their lives, they're not right for each other. But the heart wants what it wants and so while his head says "we need to be apart", his heart says he misses and still wants to be with Blaine. So he goes after him and is smacked with the realization that Blaine's moved on (I'm not even factoring the who here for now, just that he has...). That to me is pretty easy to understand and relate to. 

 

With Karofsky, someone who's never been a long term character with a long history of relationships/motivations, etc. the last we saw was that he was trying to come to terms with who he is. So they bring him back saying that he's now out and open. So I imagine Max just plays the whole thing as Karofksy is now an openly gay happy guy who finds Blaine attractive and likes him. It doesn't have to be some great love story and nothing deeper than that. Not to mention I doubt he's in any way the focus here and merely the obstacle used to create angst for Kurt and Blaine.

 

With Blaine we get that he wasn't the catalyst for the breakup, so he essentially was dumped and then fell apart spectacularly because of it. And now he's sort of picked himself back up and moved on romantically but it's with someone who has a really, really uncomfortable history with his ex-boyfriend. So the question of how this gets played becomes one, are they just ignoring the elephant in the room completely and acting like this is not someone Kurt had a very painful history with? And if they're not ignoring that then how does Darren reconcile Blaine's decision to not only fall for but date someone with such a painful and awkward history with him and the man he supposedly loved so much. Is he truly just really into Karofsky despite everything or does he have temporary amnesia and forgot about that or does he just not care? Is it a case of "it was in the past, I'm single, Kurt was the one who chose to end things so I can date anyone" or what?

 

And the thing is, on a well written show maybe there would be something deeper and more complex going on with the characters but as this is Glee we know that isn't the case. The fact is from what I read about the episodes, everything that happens with Kurt and Blaine with all the angsting/romantic drama, could have been achieved with Blaine dating any *insert random gay guy". The fact is RIB wanted the shock that came with it being Karofsky but as usual wanted it with no decent follow through and none of the actual good writing and decent characterization that comes with these kinds of things. And so the result is just that everyone looks bad and the whole thing is a mess and awful.

Not that bullying is on the same level, but didn't people say similar things when Finn dated Quinn again in Season 2. Like I said,not that threatening to kill some one and lying about the paternity of a baby are on the same playing field, but Ryan likes to make statements.  Like you said , they may be just trying to show that Dave is out and comfortable as a gay man, ignoring the elephant in the room, and attaching him to another character.  Remember that Ryan and company like to use the term 'post-Glee gay'. 

[Advance35]

Whatever they do with Sam/Rachel I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be Finn motivated.    You miss people when you lose them but every decision, even one's those that work out poorly, don't have to be tied to that loss.    I'd like Rachel to have 1 moment in the Choir Room in episode 1 where she clearly thinks about Finn and than that's it.   She was heartbroken when he died but she became consumed with other things even before the end of last season and life was starting to go on, she even commented that she wasn't dating anyone now but  she knew she would in the future.   I think that demonstrates a level of acceptance.    Though the whole thing nauseated me because they weren't even together at the time,  one FWB encounter and she left and went back to NY and Brody. 

 

Season 2 and 3 was so Finn motivated/centered where Rachel's story was concerned, I'd like them to break that cycle for the last 13 episodes.

[camussie]

People may have said something similar in season 2 but RM disabused them of that notion when asked about Finn/Quinn - he had no idea why he went that direction.  Not to say RM doesn't lie because he does but I saw that interview and he genuinely seemed at a loss for words when it came to explaining that choice.  I still think they were going the Finn/Santana route and then because they thought they might want to tackle Santana's sexuality in depth later in the season they decided not to.  So they just threw Finn/Quinn back together instead.  I really don't think Finn/Quinn was more planned than that given what a WTH plot point it was.  

 

As for Karofsky/Blaine I don't know if it is to make a splash as much as it is to send a screw you to Kurt/Blaine fans and also because RM has some weird obsession with the Karofsky character to the point where several stories have gotten out of the blue plot points to serve or in response to his story.

 

As for Sam/Rachel I just want them to leave Finn out of it completely but unfortunately it is too late for that since they brought Sam on as the blonder better Finn (which they then dropped later in the season when it really didn't take with that many) and them made another run at it last year with the out of the blue co-opting of the Will/Finn relationship to try and push Sam as the new Finn.  Matthew Morrison was good in those scenes but it still doesn't change that before that episode I feel there was never any indication that ND considered Sam the new Finn.  If they felt that way about anyone it was Blaine.  

 

To me the very best outcome that can come out of Sam/Rachel now is her seeing it as just a fling so she ends it before she heads to NY another Broadway run.  Unfortunately TPTB seem to be trying to sell this as more than that and that is what I think is a mistake.  Basically  I feel if people don't want Finn to be apart of whatever new relationship Rachel has (which I don't) then, to me, it would make sense to root for Rachel to go forward with anyone but the character they have tried at various times to sell as Finn 2.0.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[ComfySweater]

The real question for me is why these producers seem so determined to send "screw you" messages to fans of the show. They clearly have intent on that front from the lesbian bloggers mess to this Blainofsky whatever it is. This show's dead before it airs, but actively driving viewers away seems a poor plan for future efforts.

[caracas1914]

The fact is RIB wanted the shock that came with it being Karofsky but as usual wanted it with no decent follow through and none of the actual good writing and decent characterization that comes with these kinds of things.

 

 

Plus like I mentioned up thread I don't  think Ryan and Brad can get past their detachment that these are just fictional characters.  There is no investment in them as characters who are "real" within their fictional universe and accountable for what they do from one episode to the next, or hell, from one scene to the next.

 

Ryan is absolutely right when he says that relationships have speed bumps, obstacles, are "hard", etc, and trying to move past a relationship when things get ugly is what people do.  IN CONCEPT what he says makes complete sense,and good drama/comedy has done that many times before.  The problem is that he lazily attaches it  to characters regardless how it fits the character's specific history/context.   Thus  an interesting premise in theory becomes a WTF? in execution.  Blainofsky, Beistie now suddenly transitioning to a man,Blamchel, etc.

 

I mean, one of the big scenes for fans of Klaine is back in Season 2 when Kurt tells Blaine after Karofsky has threatened them in the stairwell that Karofsky stole his first kiss.  It's a touching and heart breaking moment.  They bond over what Karofksy's actions have cost Kurt.   Any writer who gave a flying fuck to the characters would think that it would be insane to create Blainofsky out of that back history, but the point is Ryan doesn't particularly care for Blaine, Karofsky or Kurt as characters.  He writes for scenes and dramatic and comedic impact, not for the  character.

Once a character has background history with Ryan they're  doomed, because Ryan never looks back.

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[Pink ranger]

Is anyone else excited about seeing Will's baby? That scene sounds adorable even though it probably lasts about 2 seconds.

I think that it will last longer than that. I think that we saw the set up in the ET promo where Will is counting down and that bit alone was several second. And the scene seems to be to for background to set up Wills storyline to there has to be some substance to it.

[jaytee1812]

I have a couple of questions if posters would be so kind.

What the lesbian bloggers mess?

This is a genuine question for Brittana fans. Why do you like them? I can't see what anyone would want one of the smartest, most talented character with one of the most promising futures, tied down to a dumbass who can barely tie her own shoelaces, thinks Santa Claus is real and babies come from storks.

[camussie]

but the point is Ryan doesn't particularly care for Blaine, Karofsky or Kurt as characters.  He writes for scenes and dramatic and comedic impact, not for character.

 

 

Out of the three I think he cares for Karofsky's character the most.  Actually I am going to go out on a limb and say he cares about Karofsky more than most of his regular characters.  When I think back of all of the WTF plot points have served or come in response Karofsky's story it really adds up.  From the gorilla suit, to Finn/Rachel trying to move up their wedding because he tried to commit suicide, and now this.  Out of the three Karofsky looks the best.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[ComfySweater]

There was the in show meta about lesbian bloggers being mad about Bram and that time Ryan got on Twitter and mocked Brittana fans. You pick which seems more spiteful, but he made it very clear he's no fan of Brittana fans. Why he needs to make this known is a mystery for the ages.

Edited January 2, 2015 by ComfySweater

[Sara2009]

One of the very few things in season 6 I'm actually looking forward too.

It'll be the best probably 3 minutes total(if we include episode 7) all season for me.

[truthaboutluv]

Oh trust me I've stated many times how much I hated that Finn/Quinn redux in Season 2 and that's what killed Finn/Rachel for me much as the Facebook hookup killed Kurt/Blaine for me. Just like with this stupid Karofsky shit, I hated what the writers did to Finn with that storyline, having him break up with and so unable to forgive Rachel for kissing Puck but he goes back to the girl who not only slept with Puck but got pregnant by him and tried to pass it off as Finn's. And all Ryan could come with is some bullshit about "you never truly get over your first love..." Whatever.

 

This is a genuine question for Brittana fans. Why do you like them? I can't see what anyone would want one of the smartest, most talented character with one of the most promising futures, tied down to a dumbass who can barely tie her own shoelaces, thinks Santa Claus is real and babies come from storks.

 

 

Not a fan of theirs and I totally get what you're saying. For me that's why I've never shipped Brittany with anyone - not Brittany/Santana, Brittany/Artie or Brittany/Sam. I think as is the case with everything on the show, the writing for Brittany was always a mess. The writers tried to have their cake and eat it too with her. They wanted at times to sell this "Forrest Gump" type character where she has this childlike innocence but because of it actually sees the world better than others and is actually smarter, but other times totally wanted the cheap laughs and had her come across as dumber than dirt.

 

Not to mention that the more screentime she got the more I grew to dislike Brittany because it felt like it got to a place where no one was ever allowed to say a mean thing to her because she's "sweet, innocent, child like Brittany" but she was fine to be as much of a bitch to others because it's Brittany and she probably doesn't know she's being mean. Like the whole sleeping with Santana the whole time she was with Artie that everyone just completely ignored because apparently were supposed to believe it was all  Santana manipulating her because she told Brittany because she was sleeping with a girl, it didn't count as cheating. Uh-huh

 

All that being said, I can sort of understand why the people who like the pairing do because they did have a cute friendship before the writers, responding to fandom pressure in my opinion, turned to some "great love story" and the two actresses do have decent chemistry.

Edited January 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

Out of the three I think he cares for Karofsky's character the most.  Actually I am going to go out on a limb and say he cares about Karofsky more than most of his regular characters.  When I think back of all of the WTF plot points have served or come in response Karofsky's story it really adds up.  From the gorilla suit, to Finn/Rachel trying to move up their wedding because he tried to commit suicide, and now this.  Out of the three Karofsky looks the best.

 

I think Ryan thinks that by showing Karofsky in a gay relationship it completes the circle that Karofsky is now openly out and OK.   The irony is that from the spoilers Karofsky doesn't get that much focus in this upcoming SL, as  Blainofsy serves for Klaine "drama".   From an interview Max Adler gave  I suspect in Season 4 they intended to film a brief scene of  Karofsky happy with someone else (IMO the  interview hints it would have been Sebastian)

 

So in  typical Ryan execution, he wants to show Karofsky "well", have Klaine get dramatic SL before a reconciliation and he thinks it serves the story for everyone.

 

The one character I do feel that Ryan feels constricted and frustrated with is the character of Kurt.  The character became, to use an overused term, "iconic" and a gay/underdog symbol and Ryan is flummoxed  how to use him. Even Ryan blinks about having Kurt  do WTF actions like the rest of the gang, but it's a double edged sword. Ryan took  away his snark but didn't replace it with  anything else and thinks that only a Klaine storyline is the "safe" way to use Kurt.  

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[ComfySweater]

And all Ryan could come with is some bullshit about "you never truly get over your first love..." Whatever.

Didn't he also say he got bored? Somebody buy the man a really complicated puzzle before his attention span wanders off again.

[camussie]

you never truly get over your first love

 

 

That was such BS given that I never got the impression Finn really loved Quinn.  IIRC he  only came up with that answer as a hail mary after not being able to explain that dumb as hell out of the blue turn in the story.

 

Not to mention that the more screentime she got the more I grew to dislike Brittany because it felt like it got to a place where no one was ever allowed to say a mean thing to her because she's "sweet, innocent, child like Brittany"

 

 

My biggest pet peeve with the character.  I will never get over that she outed Santana twice  to a much wider audience than Finn did in that hall and yet they didn't even have the girl who overheard Finn say that she had heard it from Brittany but didn't believe it until she heard it from Finn too.  I will always maintain that while it was absolutely wrong for Finn to get the hero edit in "I Kissed a Girl" it was also wrong he got the villain edit in "Mash-off" given that Brittany had outed Santana twice already.  That goes back to RM and team treating each episode like it was a brand new slate - something they appear to be continuing this season.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[Pink ranger]

It'll be the best probably 3 minutes total(if we include episode 7) all season for me.

Why so pessermistic? We have no idea what or how big Wemmas plot line is in 7, weather the baby appears in more episodes or if they hired Jayma for further episodes after 7 after the Millers canceled.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Pink ranger

[Sara2009]

Clearly people do get over their first loves. I don't think Finn and Will harbored any romantic feelings for Quinn and Terri after season 2.

[caracas1914]

My biggest pet peeve with the character.  I will never get over that she outed Santana twice  to a much wider audience than Finn did in that hall and yet they didn't even have the girl who overheard Finn say that she had heard it from Brittany but didn't believe it until she heard it from Finn too.  I will always maintain that while it was absolutely wrong for Finn to get the hero edit in "I Kissed a Girl" it was also wrong he got the villain edit in "Mash-off" given that Brittany had outed Santana twice already.

 

Don't get me started.   Finn actually trading smack with Santana and threw a mean spirited jab at her, it was petty, vicious and because it was the truth about her persona, hit home.  I don't argue that.  What annoys me no end is that it was later framed by fans that he was deliberately and intentionally  outing her to the whole school.  Suddenly it was their drama in the hallway that  had a megaphone to the student body that Finn was suddenly  aware of.

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

Well that too.  How many arguments had various members of ND had in that hallway with the rest of McKinley completely ignoring it?  That whole thing was just awful made exponentially worse by the hero edit Finn got in IKAG.  Of course the people who came out smelling like a rose in that mess were poor dumb Brittany and Sue who got to take a stand against her supporter.  

 

Speaking of Sue I feel like Fox's and to a lesser degree RM's clinging to the character is one of the big factors in why McKinley continued to be featured after what i felt was its expiration date.  Frankly i think any form of Glee that didn't feature Sue was always a non-starter for Fox which is one reason they agreed to let RM and team split the baby (also they had dreams summer tour after summer tour).  I would also guess that the two main requirements put on RM this season was - stay within your drastically cut budget and make sure Sue is heavily involved.  Too bad because if there is one narrative that is repetitive it is Sue is out to get the Glee club sprinkled with a few emmy bait episodes for Jane Lynch.

[shantown]

Would people be opposed if I made a "Character Analysis" type thread and moved some of this discussion there? Just to keep discussion in this thread focused on spoilers.

[camussie]

Honestly I don't think we need another thread to split things as I think a character analysis thread will be duplicative with the "All Episodes: Breadstix" thread since most of the discussions there tend to be analysis of the characters.  We all just need to be better about taking our views on characters from past Glee episodes to the that thread.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Sounds like a great idea!

[truthaboutluv]

What annoys me no end is that it was later framed by fans that he was deliberately and intentionally  outing her to the whole school.

 

 

That was the first, of what would later be many, that I temporarily checked out of fandom. TWOP was a mess that week and I just couldn't...

Edited January 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

This  one screener's take on some of the Klaine breakup:
 

 

b]xcolferscoke  [/b]Could you tell us the reason of the break up? Is the break up scene itself painful, or it's more the present scenes?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
It seemed to be bigger issues that exploded over little things. Kurt showed up first to dinner, Blaine was late....
it turned into an argument over something else from home. Blaine felt like Kurt's heart wasn't in the wedding planning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@andytrinity82 Is the Blaine/Karofsky thing presented as WTF cause of the history with Kurt or like people should just think it's normal?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
A little they explain how they met, Kurt is mortified. It's expected fans will know the history to understand Kurt's reaction

 

@klainefan71 did they at least address the bullying history? at all?? is that a non factor now?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
it wasn't acknowledged. Maybe it will be later.

 

@klainefan71 how does Dave seem to feel about this Kurt/Blaine dynamic?Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
Dave's POV is irrelevant IMO. It's all about Klaine.

 

Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
    Lord. I think I'm on Kurt's side w/ this Blaine breakup. Especially after Blaine's bitchiness. Rude.

   

@ValerieGleek Bitchy how? Like is there something specific or is it more than one thing?
    

Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
    there's a misunderstanding. Blaine assumes Kurt manipulated the situation and throws his relationship w/ Karofsky in his face

   

@ceb052198 Does Blaine just brag about their relationship? Is there like a big confrontation?
    Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
    He accuses Kurt of playing dirty bc he's upset Blaine moved on; Then snuggles w/ Karofsky later as Kurt longingly looks on

   

@glitteronmyface Blaine is such a baby. Are we supposed to still like him at all?
    Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
     Not sure. But I'll say this... I came out liking Kurt more and I've never liked him, lol.

 

@faberritttana
any kisses in the two episodes?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
Nothing I can recall. Only 'romance' is Blaine/Karofsky cuddling.

 

Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
I hate Kurt a lot more than I do Blaine. But I felt BAD for Kurt b/c he misses Blaine so much.

 

@oopskurt but does blaine and karofsky cuddle to hurt kurt or just bc they are a couple and they can?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
Blaine looks at Kurt while he's doing it. Kurt sees them and Rachel comforts him after. It's during the 'Home' performance.

 

@ceb052198  oh, okay! One more question, when Rachel comforts Kurt, do they talk or is it just silent? Thanks for answering questions!!
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
It's silent. She sees Blaine/Karofsky too and puts her arm around Kurt.

 

@klainefan71 I think that's subjective? Could be D cuddles B who sees K and it could be longing? Or it could be intentional.
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
Blaine is wrapped in D's arms if that matters.

 

@KlaineFan01  so the Blaine and Karofsky relationship is fake?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
no. It's real. They met during Country Bear Night at a club. Blaine wanted to tell Kurt in person he was dating someone.
but Kurt told him he wanted to get back together before Blaine could tell him.

@xcolferscoke How does Blaine react when Kurt tells him he wants to get back together? (thank you for the informations so far!)
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
Blaine is surprised, then drops the new boyfriend bombshell. Kurt tries to keep it together (you hear him talking to himself)
Then he excuses himself and goes into the bathroom and cries.

 

@tralala_449  Does Karofsky say things to deliberately rub in his relationship with Blaine to Kurt?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
No. Not at all.

 

@Klaineforya Is Blaine aware that Kurt is upset?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
no.

 

@DumbleDorkArmy I what is Blaine’s reaction to Kurt excusing himself to the bathroom? Surely he knows Kurt well enough that he isn’t okay….right?

 

Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
in my *opinion* I think Blaine knows Kurt is affected by this news.

 

does blaine seem like he had moved on?
Ryan ‏@SourceRyan
seems to yes. Says he has yes. But I'm not sure if I truly believe it.

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

Good lord between Kurt/Blaine tedious drama and Rachel singing "Let it Go" as if she was some how being repressed by an outside force rather than someone who blew up her career, the first episode sounds like a dreadful mess.  The second sounds a little better given that most of the originals are back and given that they didn't try to carbon copy them into the new newbies (which was one of the many problems with the first group of newbies).  Working against the second episode is that it seems Sue playing Wile E Coyote to the originals and newbies 2.0 Roadrunners is going to be the main plot.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

 

 

My biggest pet peeve with the character.  I will never get over that she outed Santana twice  to a much wider audience than Finn did in that hall and yet they didn't even have the girl who overheard Finn say that she had heard it from Brittany but didn't believe it until she heard it from Finn too.  I will always maintain that while it was absolutely wrong for Finn to get the hero edit in "I Kissed a Girl" it was also wrong he got the villain edit in "Mash-off" given that Brittany had outed Santana twice already.  That goes back to RM and team treating each episode like it was a brand new slate - something they appear to be continuing this season.

 

Replied to this in the all episodes thread.

[fakeempress]

 

He's no great actor by any means, but Meryl Streep probably couldn't sell that. There's nothing there to work with short of spite dating and he seems too interested in having people like him to go there a few episodes before an equally confusing wedding. Even Tina's concussion-based alternate world didn't get this far afield of sensical things.

Reading through the tweets above, it seems to me the stuff Darren gets in the first episode isn't so nebulous so that he doesn't have anything to work with, even if he didn't get any direction. He gets to play the hurt and angry jilted fiance who has moved on (or thinks he has) but is confronted with his ex who wants back, and due to some misunderstanding he lashes out at the ex. There can also be subtext: has Blaine really moved on, or maybe there are some feelings left. It's a fairly standard situation (as is the Kurt one) for romantic story lines. It can be effective in the hands of a capable actor. For instance, I remember this kind of scenario (only the ex didn't want to get back) was acted very well by Jason Dohring in Veronica Mars season 2. 

 

Re another comment, I don't think it's hard for Darren to say where Blaine's story re Klaine is going, so that he can work with that in the back of his mind. Everyone knows Klaine will end together. There is no other purpose of the Karofsky story but a roadblock. I can't imagine Darren doesn't realise that.

Edited January 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[Hana Chan]

I'm going to say it... blaming Darren's performance on the writing is a cop out. Everyone on the show has had to deal with shit writing and somehow the better actors manage to put in the work to give good, sometimes great performances. That's what being a professional actor is all about. Digging deep, finding your character's motivations and giving more than just what the script is saying. The really great actors in this show (and I'll include Chris, Lea, Jane, Matt, Jayma, Cory and sometimes Naya) all got huge WTF? storylines that they had to sell and they managed to transcend the material.

 

Darren is, IMO, a lazy actor. He's not trying to figure out the reasons that Blaine is acting the way he is. He just goes along with the script, gives the bare minimum and it's all surface.  So we don't get an answer right off the bat as to why he's with Karofsky. Is that any more outlandish than Kurt accepting not just a reconciliation with Blaine, but a fucking proposal when just in the past episode he kept parroting " We are not a couple," and was supposedly still involved with Adam. Even Diana managed to work with some insane plotlines for Quinn and keep her character relatively intact and I wouldn't count Diana in the top tier of actors on Glee.

 

If Darren isn't capable of giving me more than what the script is asking of him, or he's not interested in trying to give more, then he's in the wrong profession. Just saying...

[Myrna123]

I'm not sure what exactly makes me feel this way, but my sense is that the actors who have fought the hardest to maintain some kind of internal character continuity are the ones who have been the most marginalized. From Matthew Morrison to Dianna Agron to Cory Monteith to Chris Colfer--I think suggesting their character wouldn't do or say something His Holiness Ryan Murphy wants done or said is a screentime killer on this show. On the other hand, I think Lea, Chord, and Darren get their scripts, kiss Murphy's ring and skip off to say whatever the hell they're paid to say.

Of course, one person's "fighting for character consistency" is another person's "difficult actor."

[jaytee1812]

I'm not sure what exactly makes me feel this way, but my sense is that the actors who have fought the hardest to maintain some kind of internal character continuity are the ones who have been the most marginalized. From Matthew Morrison to Dianna Agron to Cory Monteith to Chris Colfer--I think suggesting their character wouldn't do or say something His Holiness Ryan Murphy wants done or said is a screentime killer on this show. On the other hand, I think Lea, Chord, and Darren get their scripts, kiss Murphy's ring and skip off to say whatever the hell they're paid to say.

Of course, one person's "fighting for character consistency" is another person's "difficult actor."

 

I agree, I'd add Naya to that and look how they fucked her character over. Plus the newbies who aren't back. 

 

Lea, Darren and Chord must be doing something right, every other character on the show is used to prop up them in some way. Especially Chord and Darren who were brought in as supporting characters. 

[camussie]

Lea, Darren and Chord must be doing something right, every other character on the show is used to prop up them in some way. Especially Chord and Darren who were brought in as supporting characters.

 

 

Taking my response to the People in Charge thread.

[Sara2009]

I don't know if anyone else cares about this, but that Twitter quoted earlier today( about Klaine) said these things about Will's baby:

Ryan (@SourceRyan) tweeted at 1:39 p.m. Thu, Jan 1:

Mr. Shue's baby looks like a little Ed Sheeran. It's quite possibly the most adorable baby I've ever seen. #Glee 

Ryan (@SourceRyan) tweeted at 4:06 p.m. Thu, Jan 1:

@schuepillsbury They dance together while listening to music. Will takes him out of his bouncy to play. It's so cute. 

[Ann Mack]

Interesting article. Some people reviewing are having a problem with the whole hypnotizing of Sam. Yet there are those who continue to insist that there is this undeniable chemistry (I haven't seen it and I do believe most of that is code for they are both white) between Rachel and Sam, where they obviously could NEVER see any between Sam and Mercedes. People are entitled to their opinion and so am I. With that said I find this forcing together of Sam and Rachel is ridiculous!

 

http://cartermatt.com/146554/glee-season-6-spoilers-chord-overstreets-sam-versus-hypnosis/

[ComfySweater]

These people tried to defend Brittany and Sam as not being about white people being the best possible option. They gave up on that when it went over around as well as New Coke. They don't admit that. They'll try to say it was always the plan, but New Coke going away was about the same sort of whoops.

[tom87]

I see as much chemistry with Sam and Rachel as I have seen with Sam and anyone tbh.  Never disliked any pairing but never cared much either.   Paid zero attention to Brit and Sam tbh cause it was in Lima and I skipped huge chunks of that but chemistry  wise  they were fine.

 

Still do not get the whole reason behind the  back part of season 5 if Samcedes wasn't meant to be together.

 

I am still in the camp that Sam is just used to see Rachel move on from Finn and Sam and Mercedes will probably  reunited. 

 

Still lazy.

[Pink ranger]

Before the screeners recapts came out we had no clue that Will was shown with his baby in the premiere. I think there is a really good chance that there will be more scenes like that. We know that VA has substantial focus in the season and if Wills home life is being connected to his job in the set up episode there is a good chance that it will be followed up on. Jaymas non avaiabity has zero affect on their ability to film those and its a good way to give Will, a regular more screen time.

The Ed Sheeran comparison is hilarious but true lol.

[camussie]

From spoilers I actually don't get the impression that VA has substantial focus this season.  I would in fact put their focus third after ND and the Warblers.  Also from spoilers I don't get the impression that Will is featured very heavily this season.  Sounds to me that he will have seasons 2 and 3 levels of focus if that much.  Mainly because where he used to get a lot of focus - battling Sue will be taken up with Rachel/Kurt battling Sue.

[Sara2009]

From the spoilers we have, it sounds like VA get more focus than the Warblers. They definitely get more songs at least.

[Pink ranger]

^ agreeded and VA have a named guest star as lead in Max George. A lot of the young U.S. would know of The Wanted even if they couldn't name all the singers.

And I was speaking realitively. Will may not be a lead but still a good sized supporting characters. I will happily take his season2/3 level of screen time, it's season 4 and the back half of s5 that's unacceprtably low for me.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Pink ranger

[ComfySweater]

Given that the Bubs aren't doing the Warbler tracks, I think Vocal Adrenaline should have way more than them. The Warblers stopped being good when they stopped having a legit acapella group do their arrangements. Not everybody can pull that off.

[Ann Mack]

I didn't post anything on the "Take On Me" sneak peak because.. I didn't watch it. I read the comments posted  here and thought I'd pass. Anyway, someone posted the sneak peek  on my news feed tonight and was all, "This is so amazing" and I watched and I didn't find it.. that great. Seriously, all they did was dance around and sing in the cafeteria, something that is kind of played out in this show and that "we got the beat" did so much better, and as far as glee performances go, this one probably won't make a list of any kind.  But, whatever. Plus, I feel like until we find out Samchel is real and shown on the show, the endless Sam and Rachel foreshadowing moments/camera shots are going to be there just so the show can be like, "SEE! REMEMBER THIS?!?!?!?!" and use them in previously ons and... ugh. The bitter pill is becoming harder and harder to swallow. 

 

PREACH!! It's so damn obvious what they are doing when it comes to these 2 characters. When you have to try so hard from the very beginning to sell a couple that a lot of fans have already dismissed and probably only a minority (I'm being generous) wanted is very telling. I'm at a whatever stage with the foolishness they are doing in these final 13 episodes. They were given an opportunity to do something right (because without that 2 year renewal already in place no way would they have gotten this 6th season) and yet they continue to get it SO WRONG on so many story lines.

[dizzyizzy01]

I mean, I hate the idea of Sam and Rachel, but I think it is only obvious because people here are aware of the spoilers. Songs have always had cute interactions with the characters the could be argued as out of character or out of the blue. Like Rachel and Mike in Gives You Hell or a bunch of Santana and Rachel interactions in songs. I don't think writers on this show really do much foreshadowing.

Also, we have no way to know if it's a minority or majority. It doesn't matter anyway. It's a portion of a tiny audience and the show is ending.

[fakeempress]

To me it seems the Sam/Rachel anvils are falling hard from the start. The spoilers before made me think it starts with the hypnosis, but the reviewers for the first two episodes mentioned, I think, "moments" not only in Take On Me.

 

And I agree about the Bubs, who were the magic ingredient in the Warblers songs in Season 2 - not only as arrangements but also as vocals. No other Warblers song since has had the same intangible quality. They also managed to make me like the Keane song which was not a cappella, as well as make Darren sound pretty good on it. 

Edited January 4, 2015 by fakeempress

[phoenixrising]

I know I've seen the idea floated around on tumblr, but the spoilers seem to be very Klaine-focused (aside from Rachel having whatever with Sam, I doubt that's all she's doing). I'm sure there's still stuff we don't know, for sure. 

 

Also, I don't know if it should go here or in the singing section, but Noah Guthrie, playing Roderick. . .even if I end up hating the character, I love this guys voice. He's very different from the guys we currently have on the show, which is something I wish they had done with particularly the season 4 newbies (because I found Blake, Jake, and Marley's voices bland, even though Jake and Marley were good singers). Here's a cover of "Somebody That I Used to Know", which is probably my favorite of his covers: 

 

I'm just scared they'll overproduce it into garbage like everything else in season 6. 

 

The other noteworthy newbie, Samatha Ware, is apparently a Broadway vet (I know she was in Book of Mormon from my random googling), and she's got a strong voice too. So, even though I expected to hate the newest crop of newbies, I actually have a tiny shred of hope with some of the songs, at least. 

 

And I agree about the Bubs, who were the magic ingredient in the Warblers songs in Season 2 - not only as arrangements but also as vocals. No other Warblers song since has had the same intangible quality. They also managed to make me like the Keane song which was not a cappella, as well as make Darren sound pretty good on it. 

 

I still love the season 2 Warblers. Whoever replaced them, made it seem so. . .bland. I haven't enjoyed a Warblers song since, really, or at least not to the degree I did then. 

[tom87]

To me it seems the Sam/Rachel anvils are falling hard from the start. The spoilers before made me think it starts with the hypnosis, but the reviewers for the first two episodes mentioned, I think, "moments" not only in Take On Me.

 

I think the reviewer mentions Samchel moments becasue they were asked specifically about them.  

 

If  there is a general audience left not sure they would think those moments in the song are significant an in any way.

 

 

So, even though I expected to hate the newest crop of newbies, I actually have a tiny shred of hope with some of the songs, at least.

 

None of the old group of newbies impressed me overall. Alex can sing, Jacob can dance and Becca has talent and her character was the only one interesting imo.  Also impressive cause it was the old bitchy cheerleader troupe we have seen so much of 

 

I already find  this crop of newbies more interesting in description and some in voice. 

 

But really not worth the time investing in them anyway.

Edited January 4, 2015 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

Also, I don't know if it should go here or in the singing section, but Noah Guthrie, playing Roderick. . .even if I end up hating the character, I love this guys voice. He's very different from the guys we currently have on the show, which is something I wish they had done with particularly the season 4 newbies (because I found Blake, Jake, and Marley's voices bland, even though Jake and Marley were good singers). Here's a cover of "Somebody That I Used to Know", which is probably my favorite of his covers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVoArgzHxZw

I don't like his addition mainly because I find it offensive that Unique and Jake have effectively been replaced by white men, as was Matt Rutherford after season one. (I know there's a black woman among the new newbies but it's not the same).

The way this show treats men of colour is problematic at best. Black men are either invisible in Matt's case, or every negative stereotype you can find for young, black men as in Jake's (lazy, promiscuous, always in trouble, only good at dance, saved by the good white girl). Even Mike's character was every Asian stereotype you could find. It's just another case of this show consistently saying with both the characters and who portrays them that white men are superior.

[dizzyizzy01]

Not that the writers don't have a problem with how they view the white boy hero complex and how they write minorities on this show, I actually thought Mike Chang was a pretty decently written character. It did probably help that he was mostly a background character so less opportunity to screw that up.

To me, Mike Chang is the nicest of all the glee guys cause except for that one line he has to Tina during s3 and the retcon of their breakup, he was generally portrayed as a nice dude. I would also say he's not very stereotypical. He's the football player dancer that's joins the Joffrey.

Edited January 4, 2015 by dizzyizzy01