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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

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Glory

By Glory
in Glee [V]

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Sara2009

Sara2009

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or what, but if they want to let Groff sing a lot of vocals on I Lived, I honestly don't care. He and Matt have the best male voices out of everyone

on that stage. I know that Jesse wasn't really a

part of the show over the last 5 years, but he

was a big part of season 1, and season 1/2 is

pretty much the only reason I'm so nostalgic

about this final number anyway.

It probably wouldn't have made sense storywise, but I always wanted a duet between them. Their voices are so good yet couldn't be more different.

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shantown
shantown

If Jesse St. James shows up at the very end to whisk Rachel away I will forgive the majority of this awful season.

ComfySweater
ComfySweater

Date Sam. It's what everybody else does when they aren't with their soul mate.

Cranberry
Cranberry

You guys argue about the weirdest things.

caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)

At this point I don't give a shit.

If Max George can get 8 or 9 throwaway fucking solos I'd be more than fine with Groff having a major singing role in the final group number.

Edited by caracas1914
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buffy11bnl

buffy11bnl

Well Listen to your heart has already broken the top 200 on itunes. 

I bought it.  I'm glad they had one last song worth buying and couldn't be more thrilled that it was a St.Berry duet (not for OTP reasons so much as how amazing they sound together)

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Casual Viewing

Casual Viewing

Well Listen to your heart has already broken the top 200 on itunes.

I actually bought it on ITunes after swearing 4years ago that I would never ever buy from Itunes again. But I'll still wait until my regular online store has the album available before I get the rest of the music that I want from the episode. :-)

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

Caracas, you mean Kurt and Blaine? I saw some tumblr spoilers saying it's a ships in the night type miss at the Lima Bean. Kurt&Mercedes, and Blaine& a Warbler are there, Kurt goes to get a table, and Mercedes actually exchanges a couple of words with Blaine in the lineup. Which if accurate, begs the question why Mercedes and Blaine don't show any signs of recognition a year later. Mercedes isn't exactly unmemorable, and Blaine is in the Dalton uniform which is very distinct.

Edited by fakeempress
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caracas1914

caracas1914

Yeah, you're right I got my couples confused.

 

However from spoilers it appears that "2009" may not retcon hummelberry but rather explain

WHY Kurt was hostile towards Rachel back in S1.  Seems it may have to do with how Rachel got the Grease singing part (as seen with Finn in the pilot)  and somehow involved Mercedes.

 

If this spoiler is right, it would explain why Kurtcedes distrust of Rachel was set from the very start.

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fakeempress

fakeempress

That's somewhat reassuring. What's not is the horrendous styling for Kurt's hair I have seen in a couple of stills. It's almost Blaine's gelmet territory. First, it's nowhere near the real pilot style, and I think Chris has enough hair on top to pull off side bangs. Second, anyone who's seen pictures of Chris's Harry Potter birthday party, which I'm sure was attended by some of the Glee hair-makeup team, can figure out how to style him to look younger.

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Sara2009

Sara2009

It seems that we might also discover that Will and Sue were genuinely friends at one point. If so, I think it explains a lot about why Will continues to give Sue the benefit of the doubt even when he shouldn't. Perhaps Sue was once an important person in his life, and he misses that.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

The Kurt Do looks awful, as in Blaine/Pee Wee Herman awful.

The character NEVER wore his hair that way, so the DSB number (apparently included) was a different look for Kurt along the way somehow.

Maybe the "Popular ' number with Rachel actually includes a Kurt makeover.

Naaaahhh...,

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theschnauzers

theschnauzers

I'm getting the feeling that much of both the "2009" and "Dreams Come True" finale episodes are coming straight out of the show bible. Which may explain a lot.

 

And if Mecedes ran into Blaine once a year before he came to McKinley, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't remember Blaine.  Over the years, most of the Warblers who had dark ahir color looked just about the same.

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fedek

fedek

(edited)

Blaine is just at the Lima Bean with another Warbler at the same time Kurt and Mercedes are there. None of them exchange words or even glances. They were basically just shoehorning Darren into the ep but it works fine, it's not a ridiculous soul mate moment w/Kurt or anything. Blaine talks about coming out and is counseling the other Warbler, who of course acts offended and insists he is 100% straight. Yep, that joke again.

 

 

reinforce that he is in fact older, by inserting him into the 'pilot' do-over as a Warbler

 

Yeah, very true since Blaine supposedly was a freshman at that time. I just block all that out for the sake of sanity.

Edited by fedek
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heyerchick

heyerchick

Blaine's timeline is freaking insane. He starts out older, then they make him younger, but can't really erase the history that makes him older, then reinforce that he is in fact older, by inserting him into the 'pilot' do-over as a Warbler and not a gay kid at an ordinary high school thinking of inviting a guy to a Sadie Hawkins dance. 

 

The little things annoy me so damn much.

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dizzyizzy01

dizzyizzy01

The Kurt Do looks awful, as in Blaine/Pee Wee Herman awful.

The character NEVER wore his hair that way, so the DSB number (apparently included) was a different look for Kurt along the way somehow.

Maybe the "Popular ' number with Rachel actually includes a Kurt makeover.

Naaaahhh...,

 

I mean Kurt did have the side swept bangs thing in the pilot, but in 2009 it looks like a bad wig.  Kurt's throwback look is the worst in the episode.  They pull-off Rachel, Mercedes, Tina, and Artie much better.  Although, I don't think Artie's look has evolved nearly as much as the others over the seasons.

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

I think one of my favourite things about season six is seeing Tina in her 2009 outfit. From the pictures she looks fantastic.

It's weird as Tina got more of a personality her clothes got less of one. Her and Quinn shared a wardrobe marked 'Mom wear' by the end.

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spiritof76

spiritof76

 

Kurt's throwback look is the worst in the episode.  They pull-off Rachel, Mercedes, Tina, and Artie much better.

I think a big part of it is the fact that Chris has changed so much physically in the past 6 years. Out of everyone he was the only one on the tail end of puberty at 18 when he got cast. When he started he was a few inches shorter and had a baby face. He has since shot up, lost the baby face and filled out. I don't know if they would have been able to do anything to recreate Season 1 Kurt. 

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tom87

tom87

I think a big part of it is the fact that Chris has changed so much physically in the past 6 years. Out of everyone he was the only one on the tail end of puberty at 18 when he got cast. When he started he was a few inches shorter and had a baby face. He has since shot up, lost the baby face and filled out. I don't know if they would have been able to do anything to recreate Season 1 Kurt. 

But to me the hair is what throws Kurt off the most not even the height or the less baby face.

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fakeempress

fakeempress

 

Blaine is just at the Lima Bean with another Warbler at the same time Kurt and Mercedes are there. None of them exchange words or even glances.

Someone on tumblr posted tweets from Paley that Blaine is behind Mercedes at the Lima Bean and Mercedes turns around to get something and exchanges a few words with Blaine. Kurt is away at the table at this time, so Kurt and Blaine don't meet.

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fedek

fedek

I don't remember that happening but it is entirely possible. Every time a character popped up for the first time there was a lot of screaming so I could have missed it. ? If yeah, it was a blink and miss thing.

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dlyn

dlyn

In the bootleg clip I saw, Mercedes asks Blaine if he could pass the sugar. That seemed to be the entirety of it. And yes, there was a lot of screaming.

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fedek

fedek

He's in a couple of scenes. He's also in the beginning scenes w/Kurt, again w/Karofsky, being the bully. I think they are shown harassing Tina later too, so maybe 3 scenes. Totally what you'd expect, unfortunately.

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dizzyizzy01

dizzyizzy01

(edited)

The episode only focuses on the POV of the very first glee club kids so Kurt, Rachel, Tina, Mercedes and Artie.  There's a lot of Mr. Schue also.  All other characters are pretty peripheral.

Edited by dizzyizzy01
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Bill1978

Bill1978

The big question is does Matt Rutherford speak or does he just stand in the background pulling a face and perhaps miming to someone else's words. I reckon one of the best meta jokes the writers could have done was make Matt have more lines in this one episode than he did in all of Season One.

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fedek

fedek

(edited)

One line of two words!

 

I was totally fine with the ep being the POV of the first kids in the glee club, especially lots of S1 Rachel Berry and lots of Kurt with Burt (even if Colfer's changed looks take you out of that a bit). But it did suck to have Puck there solely to be such an asshole, especially since I don't remember him ever being shown in the early seasons with Karofsky and especially in an ep where Kurt is looking at pamphlets on suicide because of how he's being treated. Wish they would have just brought Amizio back since it was always Amizio and Karofsky who were shown physically throwing people into lockers or threatening to beat people up and then had Puck throw the slushie or just given him something else to do.

 

Was glad to see Terri and Howard Bamboo again.

Edited by fedek
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SNeaker

SNeaker

So much for the theory that Puck would be shown as the "reluctant bully" in place of Finn. Not that that would have been a good idea either.

 

Nice final moments for the character, assholes.

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Glorfindel

Glorfindel

(edited)

One line of two words!

 

I was totally fine with the ep being the POV of the first kids in the glee club, especially lots of S1 Rachel Berry and lots of Kurt with Burt (even if Colfer's changed looks take you out of that a bit). But it did suck to have Puck back solely to be such an asshole, especially since I don't remember him ever being shown in the early seasons with Karofsky and especially in an ep where Kurt is looking at pamphlets on suicide because of how he's being treated. Wish they would have just brought Amizio back since it was always Amizio and Karofsky who were shown physically throwing people into lockers or threatening to beat people up and then had Puck throw the slushie or just given him something else to do.

In the first few episodes of season 1 Puck threw Kurt in the garbage dumpsters repeatedly and also once threw him against a locker (in 1x10). He wanted to lock Artie in a portapotty and role him over in the Pilot. And even as late as 1x18 he was still throwing kids in the dumpster.

I mean, I agree that it totally sucks that the last we'll see of Puck (and Dave Karofsky too for that matter) is him being a bully to the other kids in 2009, but that is sadly what he was back then.

 

Puck being best buddies with Karofsky instead of Finn is the only thing here that isn't the way it was in the Pilot, but I guess they wanted another familiar face who viewers remember as a bully.

 

Having said that: I think Puck had one of the most natural and best character developments in the show throughout the seasons, probably because he  wasn't given the ~hero-edit like Finn and didn't get that much screentime. Since I already mentioned Kurt as being Puck's victim in the beginning: Puck went from throwing Kurt in the dumpster to praying for Kurt's dad and defending Kurt against Karofsky in early season 2.

And now he's made a good life for himself (without any help from others I might add), with a steady job and relationship (whatever you may think of Quick). So at least there's that.

Edited by Glorfindel
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SNeaker

SNeaker

(edited)

It would be fine to show Puck in "2009" as the awful bully he was (and yes, he was pretty awful, there isn't any need to whitewash that) if there was some kind of contrast shown to how much he's grown. For instance, he could have appeared in the next episode and been shown being kind to Rachel/Kurt, etc. Or if at any point this season they had given him literally anything to do each time they shlepped him back. Freaking Mike Chang got a last storyline while Puck got nothing more than cameos. Instead, his very last scenes and lines on the show are going to be a cold reminder that he was a nasty shit who terrorized our beloved main characters to the point of contemplating suicide, and will probably leave people wondering how they ever became friends with him at all. (And no, "I Lived," doesn't alleviate that, since it's just an out of context song.) It just leaves a bad taste, and he and Quinn are the only characters without any kind of last sendoff. But at least the last thing Quinn was shown to do was try to help Becky.

 

Making it part of the finale makes it worse, but it's not even like they can claim the episode order screwed anything up because "2009" was always going to be his last appearance.

Edited by SNeaker
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fedek

fedek

(edited)

 

It would be fine to show Puck in "2009" as the awful bully he was (and yes, he was pretty awful, there isn't any need to whitewash that) if there was some kind of contrast shown to how much he's grown.

Right, yes. Or if they would have just shown in the ep any hint that there was more to him than that, any hint of his POV, I would have been much happier about it. I personally don't care anything about Karofsky but I do care about Puck and I was bummed this was his last ep.

 

I had forgotten he'd pushed Kurt before it was mentioned (mainly to show Finn as the 'good guy' imo) but the dumpster stuff has always been played as a joke. Obviously it wouldn't be in real life but even in this ep Kurt throws it out there as a positive for Finn that Finn let him take his jacket off first.

Edited by fedek
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Sara2009

Sara2009

One line of two words!

I was totally fine with the ep being the POV of the first kids in the glee club, especially lots of S1 Rachel Berry and lots of Kurt with Burt (even if Colfer's changed looks take you out of that a bit). But it did suck to have Puck there solely to be such an asshole, especially since I don't remember him ever being shown in the early seasons with Karofsky and especially in an ep

where Kurt is looking at pamphlets on suicide because of how he's being treated. Wish they would have just brought Amizio back since it was always Amizio and Karofsky who were shown physically throwing people into lockers or threatening to beat people up and then had Puck throw the slushie or just given him something else to do.

Was glad to see Terri and Howard Bamboo again.

Isn't there quite a bit of Will too? A couple other sources said that.

I read that Terri is just as hilariously awful as ever.

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fedek

fedek

 

Isn't there quite a bit of Will too? A couple other sources said that.

Yes. Happy with Terri and playing basketball w/his friend Sue. Terri is so awful (especially to Howard Bamboo) but it was fun seeing her and Will kind of happy. And Emma is around too. Both Jessalyn and Jayma are so good, seeing them again in this ep was fab.

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dizzyizzy01

dizzyizzy01

Isn't there quite a bit of Will too? A couple other sources said that.

I read that Terri is just as hilariously awful as ever.

There's a lot of Will in the episode and a bit of Sue & Will.  It's pretty funny actually and Terri is awesome in her awfulness as usual.

 

I actually think 2009 is a really good episode.  It stayed fairly true to the characters from the Pilot.  I do kind of wish it wasn't part of the finale though because it feels like an entirely different show.  It felt like S1 front 13 Glee.  

 

Btw, people that were worrying about Kurt not having his audition piece.  It's actually in the episode, but they filmed it in a way so I guess as to not show how drastically Chris has grown.  I just don't think they re-recorded anything to release it as a new song.  The only auditions not shown is actually Rachel's and Mercedes'.

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Sara2009

Sara2009

Yes. Happy with Terri and playing basketball w/his friend Sue. Terri is so awful (especially to Howard Bamboo) but it was fun seeing her and Will kind of happy. And Emma is around too.

Both Jessalyn and Jayma are so good, seeing

them again in this ep was fab.

I read that Terri was awful to Will too.

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Florinaldo

Florinaldo

It would be interesting if they eventually release the two versions of the script for "2009" to compare them and see how extensive rewrites were of if they were just cosmetic. The initial script's cover page (which Dijon posted) bore only one name as the author but it appears that the final version is credited to RIB.

 

We know they changed it to include Blaine, in a near-miss with Kurt which I thought was the most probable option (and plausible since he lives close by). But were there adjustments made to the interactions between the other proto-Gleeks or between the adults?

 

It certainly does not look as if the rewrites were meant to eliminate continuity discrepancies since the episode includes a few that are known, like the exact nature of Rachel and Kurt's relationship at that point, Mercedes not recognising Blaine a year later or Karofsky and Puck being friends/teammates. And there's room left for several others.

 

They drew the line at inserting Sam into the episode, although they could have shown his family driving through town as his father moves to another job (but hiring the guest stars who played his parents way back when might have added to costs just for small cameos). It might have been a stretch too many plot-wise.

 

I wonder if RIB viewed this episode as another crack at the pilot, as a "if we knew back then all that we know now, this is another way we could have done it".

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camussie

camussie

(edited)

It looks like they did a good job on Kurt's hair in the choir room scene.  Just not in the cafeteria scene.  Terri is always comic gold.  

 

In other news.  This time was released.  I put my thoughts on the hear them sing thread

Edited by camussie
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