Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[MarkHB]

4 hours ago, Proteus said:

Yeah, I think I may be out. Sounds like this is going to become a type of show I don't like. They should be careful. That 0.5 demo rating may be getting smaller if they dont realize they are not GOT and people watch CW shows like this for the characters.

Well, I at least watch it (and the others) for wacky hijinks and/or superhero stuff.  :)

[squidprincess]

I wouldn't have thought they'd have killed off Snart, who was, I think, the most popular character by far.  So I suppose that means no one is safe.

That said, I'd be very very surprised if we lost Rip, Sara, or Jax.  To me, they feel the safest.  They've really made a point of showcasing so many aspects of Rip's character this year.  They even managed to utilize Rip in a comedic fashion this past episode, which I wouldn't have thought possible.   He's also got the most unique experience/skillset, and best built in story hooks.  It'd be a waste to cut him loose now.  Sara is both incredibly popular, and unlike Snart, incredibly versatile.  She isn't weighted down by a comic canon role.  And Jax has had such a strong growth arc this season, especially when it comes to his development outside of just being half of Firestorm.

(I also tend to think Darvill is safe based on some of the things he said in the above interviews.  Especially the one where he talks about having the privilege to take a vacation, unlike many other actors who have to worry about whether or not they'll get more work.  He might have been referring to other projects, but it seems likely that he's referring to Legends.)

We'll know tomorrow night if I'm right, I suppose.  :-)  

[Proteus]

32 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I hate it when they say that mainly for the fact that we know its a lie. Sara and Ray are safe as hell. 

But I am excited/sad/wanting it to over to see Sara/Laurel get a final goodbye, even if it will probably be exactly the same as Arrows big 100 goodbye.

This show doesnt have the legs to stand on to really kill off Sara. Everyone is likeable but none of them really stand out that much as much as Sara does.

I hope you're right, PS. If TIIC kill off Sara again I'm done for good with these shows.

[Sakura12]

I'm thinking all the Doomworld Legends are going to die or maybe they'll mix it up. They have two sets only one set can remain. I think that's why they are comparing themselves to GoT. They can do GoT deaths without losing any of the characters. The characters that are leaving are probably just leaving not dying.

[Miss Dee]

IGN Interview with Guggenheim

IGN: Rory's been going through a tough character arc as he's been torn between his loyalty to Snart and to the Legends. I assume that's going to remain a big focus in the finale.

Guggenheim: Yeah. Basically, Rory is going to be forced to make the ultimate, final choice between Snart and his team. As a result of that choice, he'll pay the ultimate price.

Translation: Mick...you're gonna die, brutha. Crossing fingers you do it for the Legends and not Snart.

*sigh* There goes my greatest enjoyment from watching this show. Damn it.

ETA: Although...while I'm 99% convinced he's dead, there's a 1% buffer built in. For example, Mick has never seemed terribly concerned about his impending death from the bomb in E05, or by musket in E11 so that might not be the ultimate price for him. He might have to kill Snart to save the Legends, and that would probably weigh on him more heavily. Which would cause a real time-consequences problem, but as all articles seem to indicate that the season is ending in a big clusterfuck anyway....

That's grasping at straws, though. He's dead. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Miss Dee
Add another idea

[Starfish35]

Oh wow.  :(

Weird that he would spoil that, though. 

[Miss Dee]

I'm glad he did. Much better for me than going in with some hope Mick makes it through. 

[squidprincess]

There are still two Micks though.  We could have the Doomworld Mick pay the "ultimate price", and have the Fellowship Mick learn from it?

Edited April 4, 2017 by squidprincess

[ItCouldBeWorse]

36 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

There are still two Micks though.  We could have the Doomworld Mick pay the "ultimate price", and have the Fellowship Mick learn from it?

Or the ultimate price could be losing his best friend (again).

Edited April 4, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Miss Dee]

I agree. If the "ultimate price" is not his own death, his choice almost has to result in either the death of Snart or the death of the Legends because he didn't choose that side. (Or... alarming thought... because he did.) 

[Maverick]

 Ever since I heard the title of this episode, I assumed it meant Mick would end the season in Aruba.  Now how that would happen and when he would be left there is questionable.  After the last episode my current theory is the team will decide that Mick is too much of a loose canon they can't trust to have around and will leave him behind...in Aruba.  Maybe they boot the Mick we know off the ship there or maybe they use the spear rewrite him there.  I suppose it's also possible he dies stopping the Legion and they bury him or spread his ashes there.    

[BkWurm1]

27 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Ever since I heard the title of this episode, I assumed it meant Mick would end the season in Aruba.  Now how that would happen and when he would be left there is questionable.  After the last episode my current theory is the team will decide that Mick is too much of a loose canon they can't trust to have around and will leave him behind...in Aruba.  Maybe they boot the Mick we know off the ship there or maybe they use the spear rewrite him there.  I suppose it's also possible he dies stopping the Legion and they bury him or spread his ashes there.    

Talk about Aruba always reminds me of Agents of Shield and Coulson going to "Tahiti" to recover after he died. :(  Maybe Mick gets a similar treatment.

Edited April 4, 2017 by BkWurm1

[johntfs]

Instead of Game of Thrones, I want Sara to meet The Widow from Into the Badlands...

[Featherhat]

I don’t think either CL or BR are going anywhere for now. They both went to Paleyfest and are respectively the most recognisable actor and basically the lead actor of the ensemble.

 

I loath it when TV writers reference GOT as “no one is safe” well first off, the GOT writers *were* following books full of bloodbaths so no it wasn’t surprising for anyone who read them, second you are NOT GOT: *shocking deaths* on this verse aren’t so shocking when you continually bring actors back and your writing is not good enough to handle. It’s basically just TV writer masturbation to reference vague things and compare themselves to the shows they think they wish they were writing. 2 in 2 out same as last year but I don’t think it will be shocking. Annoying maybe.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Featherhat
re wrote post

[feverfew]

11 hours ago, Proteus said:

I will be pissed if Rip leaves again.

While I would have to think long and hard on whether I would want to continue watching LoT if Mick and Sara left, Rip is my dealbreaker. No Rip, no me. I'm alright with him sitting out a few episodes to do UK stuff, but dead!Rip is a no-go for me.

Ugg. I want LoT to stay as it is: A fun, little show about some great characters. I don't want doom and gloom. Don't take the worst lessons from the DC movies to heart, LoT writers!

[kismet]

Seriously, LoT is not GoT!!! It is not even close on any level other than the basic title structure "x of x". I really hope that was just hyperbole for the press junket. I do really think if the writers have convinced themselves they are GoT, then they are in for a rude awakening from the fans. GoT has far too many main characters, so they can do Wedding bloodbathes because they still have enough main cast to invite to the next wedding. LoT has 8 main cast members, maybe a supporting cast of a few. The shear cast number differences alone should make their comparison illogical. But no need to go off on a further tangent, it's obvious people here are of sound & intelligent mind to know that LoT is not GoT, nor should it aim to be.

Back to the finale. I agree, Aruba does remind me of Tahiti. I also think that LoT will end on a cliffhanger this season. I think we will see Mick sacrifice himself but we will not know if he survives or not. Perhaps it is why he is stuck in Aruba in 2017. I do find it interesting that s1 ended with a message from Mr. Rory, that the team did not take seriously and now we will perhaps see the consequences of those actions. I do also wonder if the ultimate sacrifice may be him having to kill this version of Snart. That would be a very challenging thing to do.

I will say that I think Amaya is not going to be a regular next season. They have to get her back to her own timeline and keep Vixen's timeline intact. It's logical that she is one of the rotating pieces out of the ship.

Looking forward to tonight, when our speculation will be confirmed or rejected. Sadly, I will be at work - but alas I will catch up with it in the morning.

PS - Hugs all around, for those of you having a bad couple of days!! Ditto for me.

[Sakura12]

I'm kind of hoping Mick's ultimate sacrifice is killing Snart. Then becoming a full member of Team Legends. I would like to see all the Legends chilling on Aruba drinking rum and playing on the beach as the final shot. I also want them to do another nod to Doctor Who and Aruba is another planet. So next season is the Legends in space!

Edited April 4, 2017 by Sakura12

[tennisgurl]

I've mainly been staying away from the speculation thread, but the articles I've been reading has made me come here and see what people were thinking. I've got such mixed feelings about tonight. I'm looking forward to it, and yet I'm also totally dreading it. I'm not at all enjoying the whole "We`re turning into GoT" thing Guggie seems to be pushing for some reason. The show is really good as it is, there's no reason to change everything! I know we will probably lose people, but I don't want anyone to die or leave, it would just hurt an already strong ensemble.

It seems like, from what I've read, Mick might die, and Amaya will go back to her own time. Neither of those options make me happy. It just seems unfair that the one show that can actually write for an ensemble is the one that seems to be living with a sword over its head, while the other shows, with their millions of extraneous characters, haven't killed anyone significant in ages (or at least let them stay dead).

Edited April 4, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Starfish35]

I think it was Klemmer that was doing the GoT thing, but..yeah.

I'm not totally convinced on Mick, despite MG's "ultimate price" quote.  I think that could be misleading.  But I'm bracing myself none the less.  :(  Someone said on TVLine that DP doesn't like filming in Vancouver.  I hadn't heard that before (although it seems like I do remember something now about him not liking the cold) but if that's true, maybe he did ask to be written out.

I do think Amaya's going back to her own time.  And I'm still kind of thinking something might happen to Stein and/or Rip.  

Only 9-ish hours to go before we know for sure. :)

[Argenta]

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Only 9-ish hours to go before we know for sure. :)

I'm starting on the hard liquor now. Anyone want to join me? It'll be less stressful if we're all drunk.

[Proteus]

Another interview with MG talking about cast changes:

http://mashable.com/2017/04/04/legends-of-tomorrow-season-2-finale-who-dies-amaya-dead/#oYFlzpbGusqU

[tennisgurl]

42 minutes ago, Argenta said:

I'm starting on the hard liquor now. Anyone want to join me? It'll be less stressful if we're all drunk.

As soon as I'm done with work related stuff, I will be joining you in the liquor cabinet. Maybe the booze will make it better?

[tofutan]

I think Aruba is like the "Peace" of Vampire Diaries, the happily ever after place you go to when you are dead. Or maybe in Legends, it's like a time pocket for the people who for whatever reason can never leave it (kinda like the time pocket Rip showed Heatwave where he can talk to Snart at the bar). 

I also lean towards Sara being safe, but that one line about it being a philosophical question whether Sara seeks out Laurel comes pretty close to making me paranoid. Because maybe Sara meets Laurel in the "Aruba" afterlife. 

If Aruba = some version of afterlife, it would make sense if Mick stays there since he is the one who first mentioned it, so one could picture it being how he imagines the happily ever after, sipping beer on the beach, maybe with Snart. (though, I vaguely remember Prison Break having a line about something similar so maybe that's where the mental image comes from)

[Proteus]

I don't think Caity Lotz is leaving the show tonight. Maybe next year since MG and PK don't give a damn about their viewers and think people will keep watching this show no matter what they do. But I think CL will at least be back in some capacity next year.

[Proteus]

Another interview:

http://www.cbr.com/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-set-up/amp/

[Proteus]

More of the same overhyping & bragging:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/legends-of-tomorrow-finale-marc-guggenheim-mick-rory-leonard-snart-1202022471/amp/

[kismet]

If CL/SL is leaving the show, or is removed from the show for plot purposes - I will be absolutely shocked! Even as a faux cliffhanger it is pretty illogical & unrealistic as an actual plot. Truly she is the only one that I believe will be safe for s2 and if I'm being honest for most of the series (unless CL wants out). I guess I could buy into the "NO ONE IS SAFE", but realistically, some characters are safe.

I do believe that if Aruba is some type of special time free area; recovery from death; or zone area - then I do think that SL seeing LL there in a vision/hallucination/person will be part of the rescue mission for Mick (or whoever else dies). I mean that actually does make sense that we would see LL in some type of limbo world.

[Miss Dee]

The Variety article hints strongly that Mick's "ultimate price" has to do with him ultimately choosing the Legends over Snart. 

[Starfish35]

3.5 hours...... 

I hope one of you live viewers will kindly take pity on those of us who have to wait until later to watch, and end the "who dies?" suspense quickly. :)

Edited April 4, 2017 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

In the meantime, may I just say, regarding this:

Quote

I was excited to see Katie was returning as a series regular to “Arrow,” but I honestly had my fingers crossed that Black Siren would become a member of the Legends.

That was something we had talked about. For us, the whole conversation about bringing Katie back as a series regular on “Arrow” began with her performance in the midseason premiere. We briefly spoke about bringing her on “Legends,” but I think from a story perspective we would get far more mileage out of her interacting with the cast of “Arrow.”

Whew!  Major bullet dodged there.  As much as I love this show, I'm not sure I could continue with it if they brought KC onboard as a regular.  I'm sorry for the Arrow fans, but I am so glad we're not having to deal with her here.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Starfish35

[Argenta]

Unless I stay up until 3 am - and I'm in work tomorrow - I will have to wait until tomorrow evening to watch. I'll struggle to avoid spoilers, but I don't want to find out anything ahead of time.

*pours brandy*

[Starfish35]

I will be haunting the episode thread, because I want to know, so I can brace myself. :)  

[tennisgurl]

Oh, hello Vodka! I feel like you and I are going to become very close by the end of the night...

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

In the meantime, may I just say, regarding this:

Whew!  Major bullet dodged there.  As much as I love this show, I'm not sure I could continue with it if they brought KC onboard as a regular.  I'm sorry for the Arrow fans, but I am so glad we're not having to deal with her here.

I hope they keep thinking that way. I'll take an episode, maybe two if I'm in a good mood, but no more. Keep her on Arrow. LoT only needs one Lance and it got the best one. 

[Argenta]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I will be haunting the episode thread, because I want to know, so I can brace myself. :)  

I'm in a dilemma. If I don't stay up to watch the ep. tonight, I'll be restless, anxious, spoiler-hungry and unable to concentrate at work tomorrow. If I do watch it, and Bad Things happen to my favourite characters, I'll be exhausted and sad at work instead. 

...

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, Argenta said:

I'm in a dilemma. If I don't stay up to watch the ep. tonight, I'll be restless, anxious, spoiler-hungry and unable to concentrate at work tomorrow. If I do watch it, and Bad Things happen to my favourite characters, I'll be exhausted and sad at work instead. 

...

I know the feeling.  For me it's better to just know and get it over with, and then I can process how I feel about it, rather than to be on pins and needles wondering.   But yeah, if you're not going to be able to get a good night's sleep afterwards, that's not good either.  Hard choice. :(

[Argenta]

I'm also juggling the Prison Break premiere, but that can wait because it's not a finale. 

Going to stay up, I think. I've already napped for a few hours this evening so should manage it!

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

In the meantime, may I just say, regarding this:

Whew!  Major bullet dodged there.  As much as I love this show, I'm not sure I could continue with it if they brought KC onboard as a regular.  I'm sorry for the Arrow fans, but I am so glad we're not having to deal with her here.

That sucks. They should've added KC to LoT instead of Arrow. Would've been much more fun to have her around.

[Sakura12]

It wouldn't be fun for me. I'd rather her visits be minimal on LoT. This is Sara's show. 

[MarkHB]

Folks,

Reaction to the season finale does not count as spoilers; please take it to the Aruba episode thread.

[Starfish35]

Ok, now that I have finally caught up (I waited until tonight to binge the last three episodes back-to-back), I have some thoughts pertaining to season three.

1.  Arthur Darvill's status.  Last season, after Snart was killed off, news was immediately posted on several different websites that Wentworth Miller was no longer going to be a regular on the show.   I'm not sure what to make of the lack of any such confirmation on AD's status.  I hope that means he's not necessarily gone for good, but I'm not sure.

2.  Phil Klemmer compared season three to Game of Thrones in the ComicBook.com interview, saying they never wanted to let the fans think anyone was safe.   While I know it's a little too early to be worrying about season three, I am a little concerned that the lack of any (permanent) deaths in the finale only means they are saving them up for their "Game of Thrones"-esque season three.   Call me paranoid, but I still remember them tricking the fans into thinking that Sara was going to be a significant part of Arrow's season three, even going so far as to bring her to SDCC with the regular cast, only to put three arrows in her and drop her off a building in the season premiere.  

[Proteus]

Right now I'm going to try and not worry about Sara. If they were to get rid of her in season 3, keep Nate and Amaya, get rid of Rip, and bring on new members, they'd might as well just cancel the show.

Caity & Brandon were at MGs house tonight watching the finale with him according to CLs Twitter. It seems like they are faves of his and the network. I think CW values them enough to not allow MG to axe them even if he wanted to.

[Featherhat]

18 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, now that I have finally caught up (I waited until tonight to binge the last three episodes back-to-back), I have some thoughts pertaining to season three.

1.  Arthur Darvill's status.  Last season, after Snart was killed off, news was immediately posted on several different websites that Wentworth Miller was no longer going to be a regular on the show.   I'm not sure what to make of the lack of any such confirmation on AD's status.  I hope that means he's not necessarily gone for good, but I'm not sure.

2.  Phil Klemmer compared season three to Game of Thrones in the ComicBook.com interview, saying they never wanted to let the fans think anyone was safe.   While I know it's a little too early to be worrying about season three, I am a little concerned that the lack of any (permanent) deaths in the finale only means they are saving them up for their "Game of Thrones"-esque season three.   Call me paranoid, but I still remember them tricking the fans into thinking that Sara was going to be a significant part of Arrow's season three, even going so far as to bring her to SDCC with the regular cast, only to put three arrows in her and drop her off a building in the season premiere.  

Oh absolutely. Any time a anyone says "it's going to be so exciting or they have so much story which we are absolutely going to get to" I know it's going to be really boring or they are being killed off.

[Starfish35]

Quote

Caity & Brandon were at MGs house tonight watching the finale with him according to CLs Twitter. It seems like they are faves of his and the network. I think CW values them enough to not allow MG to axe them even if he wanted to.

No I don't think Caity and Brandon are going anywhere.  They seem to be the "faces" of the show.  

The only thing that makes me slightly nervous about Sara is the "no one is safe" thing, and if there's anyone the fans believe is completely safe, it's Sara.  But on the other hand I can't imagine them being foolish enough to kill her off (again), so....

I don't know about the rest though.   In particular, the lack of Stein in the finale had me wondering about Victor Garber.  

I'm also wondering what MG meant when he said in the Variety interview that the makeup of the team would be different after the finale.  Did he just mean Rip leaving, or what? 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

MG lies. Half the stuff he said would happen this season didn't.

We never saw Rip as a unburdened cocksure Timemaster that would show off Arthur's comedic side.

We never saw Mick fall in love.

MG and PK both love to talk and say things that never happen.

[Miss Dee]

I'm guessing they changed directions midstream. Arthur Darville's comedic side was on full display, just not as a cocksure Time Master. Mick did love Amaya but not as part of a relationship.

I think the end game was the same - a different side of Rip being shown and Mick's love for Amaya (and the other Legends) pitted against his love for Snart - but how to get there changed part ways through. 

[treasaigh]

I haven't watched the finale yet, but I have to say I'm not encouraged by what I've read.  My three favorites were Sara, Rip, and Snart.  If two of the three are really gone I'm not sure of the appeal of season three.   My guess, hope really, based on nothing but years of TV watching, is that Rip really isn't gone.  His leaving the Waverider is just part of the cliffhanger.

Cause come on.  Who really believes Rip would leave his ship, his home, Gideon? His relationship with his ship really isn't healthy, but that's just more reason for him not to go.

Regardless I hope we get some confirmation sooner rather than later, but I fear they are going to keep silent to keep us in suspense. I hate that.

[StaceyNotStacie]

4 hours ago, Proteus said:

We never saw Mick fall in love.

Does Supergirl count? He seemed quite smitten/impressed with her during the crossover.

I'm wondering how long this alternate LA 2017 will last. My guess is that we haven't seen the last of Rip. The Legends will probably have to figure out where he is located, rescue him and then everything will eventually be fixed. 

I'm not too familiar with the other characters outside of the Legends show (unless it's a crossover, I only watch Legends and Supergirl) so I had a question regarding Amaya. She saw her family's future. Do we know who the father is? Is it possible that they're also related to Nate and that when she returns to her original time period she is pregnant with Nate's baby?

[squidprincess]

The fact that we haven't gotten any sort of exit interview really makes me wonder about Rip's status.  

As it is, to me (an admittedly biased Rip fan.  :-)) his story feels incomplete.  We had Moonshot leave off with Rip wondering about his place on the team, Sara reassuring him that he is a Legend.   He did very well as a field leader in Fellowship, but was promptly separated from the team again in Doomworld.  Now, everything seems to be wrapped up and he leaves, without ever really finding his place among the crew.

This is probably the denial talking, but I do think it's funny that the show basically negated Rip's reason for leaving two minutes after he left.  At this point in time, he is likely the only person to have any training or background that remotely deals with this scenario (even if it's just "never cross timelines or time will explode, here are some things that might happen.")

I'm sure they can write a way for the crew to find a solution without him, but this situation seems tailor made to showcase why an experienced Time Master would be useful to the group.

The annoying part is that if Rip IS sticking around, they'll probably stay silent about it.  They might confirm if he's gone for good.  But until they do, I'm going to be stuck in denial.

Edited April 5, 2017 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

43 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I had a question regarding Amaya. She saw her family's future. Do we know who the father is? Is it possible that they're also related to Nate and that when she returns to her original time period she is pregnant with Nate's baby?

As far as I know, no, we don't know who Mari's grandfather was.  I suppose it could be Nate.

13 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

The fact that we haven't gotten any sort of exit interview really makes me wonder about Rip's status.  

It makes me wonder too.  If not an interview, at least some sort of confirmation that no, Arthur Darvill will not be a regular next season.   

It just feels weird to me, him just walking off like that, because of how much they played up this bond that Rip and Gideon have.  I could see him getting killed off, but not just walking away.  Whatever AD's status, they obviously didn't want to permanently shut the door on him returning, whether as a regular or just guest star basis.