Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Sakura12]

The lack of an exit interview makes me think Rip isn't gone for good. 

[Lady Calypso]

It's making me a bit peeved that there have been zero interviews, especially over 12 hours after the episode's aired in the East Coast. He's a fairly big named actor, at least bigger than most of the other actors (sans Victor Garber and Brandon Routh). If anyone should be interviewed about their departure from the show, it's Arthur Darvill. He's done interviews before. These interviews are also pre-planned and pre-written by critics who have seen the episode days in advance. What's different about this on? What's their purpose on keeping silent? If Rip's sticking around, then they can just say it. Or they can fake us out, only to surprise us in season 3 when he's still a regular (though that negates the slapped on scene of Rip peacing out in about a minute and a half). If he's leaving, then interviews would provide some answers as to why.

I don't know; I think he's definitely gone as a regular, but I can't seem to figure out why and I can't seem to figure out the purpose for not having a post exit interview, whether or not he's actually leaving. 

[Starfish35]

They didn't do any exit interviews with Wentworth Miller last year.  But they did put out the press announcements pretty quickly that he would no longer be a regular going forward (but talking about this cross-series regular thing).  And I think post-finale they did some interviews with MG talking about season two and the Hawks leaving. 

Maybe something will still come out later today?  I don't know. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

It's really frustrating. I just want confirmation that he's gone so that I can move on.

[Sakura12]

Wentworth wasn't exiting he was getting a new contract deal, that they released the next day or so after the finale. 

They've released nothing on AD yet. I don't know what they are waiting for. 

[Proteus]

Deadline posted the Miller news the same night his death episode aired.

After the season finale we had multi interviews about the Hawks leaving.

Usually when a cast member leaves any show the exit interviews from either TPTB or performer are over the place.

Its not like confirming AD is gone for good will spoil season 3 if he is since he would have no role in whatever the plot is for next year.

[Sakura12]

Maybe that means he's not gone for good. Or they are still working out his contact. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Deadline posted the Miller news the same night his death episode aired.

After the season finale we had multi interviews about the Hawks leaving.

Usually when a cast member leaves any show the exit interviews from either TPTB or performer are over the place.

Its not like confirming AD is gone for good will spoil season 3 if he is since he would have no role in whatever the plot is for next year.

Exactly. I'm in one of two places regarding Rip's role: on the one hand, they tacked on a very quick and very unexpected exit scene. It was written fairly permanently, since he left right before the Waverider crashed. The context of his exit scene does feel like he will not be a regular and he will not be showing up next season. So for him to come back as a regular next season, it would feel like that scene is extremely pointless and could have been cut out of the episode entirely. Nothing would have changed and it would feel like they wasted a minute long scene for a twist that would go nowhere. 

On the other hand, they're seemingly keeping tight lips on Arthur Darvill. They have all this time to put out any interviews, any press releases, but it feels like they're withholding the information for a reason. Maybe they're waiting for an upcoming con or an upcoming event to announce Arthur's role on the show. Maybe he'll have a twin that will show up. Maybe he's going to be playing an entirely new character. Maybe Rip'll be a major part of next season in some unexpected way that we haven't seen yet. 

Either way, they didn't build up Rip's exit well enough. It does feel like it was a last minute choice by Darvill or by the showrunners, so they kind of inserted it at the end of the finale. 

[Sakura12]

I didn't feel it was a permanent exit. I just thought of it as Rip needed a break to go find himself. And he or the team can decide he's needed whenever they feel like it. That's why it wasn't a big deal and had no build up.

They could also have created a new Earth and find alternate Rip. AD might be like TC on the Flash and want to play different versions of his character. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

I thought the scene actually works better if he's not leaving.  If it's part of an arc set up in Moonshot, it makes sense.  He's still at a loss for his role on the team, and now that the immediate crisis has been dealt with, he's depressed and lost and trying to figure things out.  Conveniently there's a new crisis that seems perfectly set up for him.

But if he's gone for good?  That's just depressing.   We go from "I don't know what my purpose is."  "You're a Legend." to "I still don't know what my purpose is."  "Okay, bye."  It's the wrong kind of callback.  Especially in a season that really emphasized a theme of "found family".  It doesn't seem right that the character who brought them together ends up leaving, as unhappy, lost and alone as he was when the series started.  And it makes the crew look like they don't care.  Considering how they accepted Mick back after multiple betrayals (rightly, I think), it looks even worse.

[Sakura12]

Rip looked like he was trying to leave without telling any of them. He was discovered by Sara before he could do that. How is the team supposed to care if they don't know about it?

I saw Sara letting him go with she knows what it's like to be lost and needing to find your way alone for awhile. She did say he was still needed, but she's not going to force him to stay. She'd also welcome him back no questions asked if he wanted to return. So I don't see it as she doesn't care. 

[squidprincess]

I agree with you, IF it's a temporary departure.  If it's a permanent one, then I would have expected Sara to tell them he was gone for good rather than cheerfully set a destination for Aruba, and I would have expected them to care.  

Edited April 5, 2017 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

I think besides Sara, only Jax would really care. Nate and Amaya barely knew him and I don't think the rest were that close to him. They might ask where he went and if Sara said he left, they'd say ok. Sara could also think it's temporary as well. This show is not ever going to dig too deep about anything. No one really asked Sara if she was ok after dying again. 

I'm surprised he didn't have a goodbye scene with Gideon. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

Sara presided over a Christmas dinner, where she got to give a lovely speech after she died again.  That's a little different than having a crew member quietly desert, because he thinks he has nothing to offer the team.

And the show has made very clear that the crew cares about Rip, particularly when you look at episodes like Out of Time (and the crew's reaction to his goodbye message), Raiders (Ray's "we got you, Rip" and wanting to forgo the George Lucas Marathon until Gideon told him that Rip would have preferred they enjoy themselves, Martin's excitement in the police station, for example), or Land of the Lost.  Even though Nate and Amaya don't know him well, they care because they're decent people and because the others care.  

As I said, if it's a temporary departure, I'm fine with it.  But if it's a permanent one, then the writers really botched it up, and Rip deserved a better send off.

Edited April 5, 2017 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

The longer everyone goes maintaining radio silence on it, the more I'm inclined to think it's temporary.  I mean, maybe not. I've been wrong before.  But have any of the actors or EPs even tweeted anything about it?  Goodbye messages or anything? If it IS permanent, than it's being handled very oddly. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

As I said, if it's a temporary departure, I'm fine with it.  But if it's a permanent one, then the writers really botched it up, and Rip deserved a better send off.

This, exactly. It's actually a really crappy sendoff to an original actor of the show if it's permanent. It's why I'm hoping that they're going for some big announcement with AD that'll have him still present on the show in some way.

[Starfish35]

Here's another thought.  If Rip's departure is only temporary (and I'm becoming more and more convinced that it is), then at least two other team members will need to exit next season in order to make room for the newbies.   So...who?  Was that the intention? "Whew we made it through the finale and everyone's safe".  Then come back for season three with a false sense of security and bam! No they're not.  

Ok so I may still be a little hung up on the GoT thing. :(  But!  I will place my bet now.  They will kill someone off in the season premiere.   I just don't know who. 

[Miss Dee]

*groan* I know. I'm going to have a panic attack before each episode thinking Mick might not make it to the end....

[yellowfred]

So, are we taking bets on how long it takes them to unscrew time next season?  Put me down for "it'll be done by the end of the first episode back, because the writers don't want to mess with potential crossovers."

Also, I'm choosing to pretty much completely ignore the Game of Thrones comment.  Like, not even Game of Thrones is Game of Thrones anymore, and for good reason.  The whole lack of stability was cool for a while, but most fans are tired of it and most critics aren't impressed by it anymore.  I mean, The 100 tried to be Game of Thrones last year and lost over a third of its audience.  Basically, I doubt that Legends will ever really be an "anyone can die" type show.  It's just not in its DNA, even if the producers like to occasionally pretend otherwise.

[Sakura12]

I think most of it will be fixed in the premiere as well. They don't have the budget for all that to last all season. 

As for Game of Thrones, they don't even have half the audience Game of Thrones has. Killing favorites results in less viewers and this show can't afford that. Killing characters is no longer shocking since every show does it now. 

They found a team that works they really shouldn't be messing it with too much right now. I wouldn't mind a character leaving for a bit or having a new character stick around for an episode or two. I'm not here to watch characters die so the writers can feel like they are writing for a different show.

[KirkB]

Doomworld altered all of reality and barely lasted two episodes. Firestorm has to be a lot less difficult and expensive than a bunch of CGI dinosaurs and he is barely onscreen for any length of time. Whatever damage has been done to the timeline most likely won't last through the premiere.

[Delphi]

The lack of exit interviews or really any mention of Arthur's plan makes me think its a temporary departure.   I mean,  they'll possibly want the jump ship back eventually. 

And honestly think all the Hawks are gone interviews and reports was not so much because the Hawks were leaving so much as it was about letting the world know that the ill conceived Hawks were leaving and please oh please give our show a chance next season. 

And Sara is completely safe,  until Caity wants off the show.   They basically built the show around Sara and Ray after viewers had such horrible reactions to Sara's death and it was decided Brandon wouldn't be a big of enough draw.   Sara and Ray aren't going anywhere. 

[Starfish35]

Update on Arthur Darvill's status:

Quote

At least one of Legends of Tomorrow's season-ending mysteries has been solved.

As the CW drama’s sophomore run came to a close this week, Rip Hunter (played by original cast member Arthur Darvill) quietly packed a bag and bid the Waverider and its new captain, Sara, adieu. That, however, does not mean viewers have seen the last of the Brit.

“We’ve got plans for Rip for next year,” Legends showrunner Marc Guggenheim told Entertainment Weekly Radio on Thursday. “It’s just in a different capacity than him being a member of the team.”

Edited April 6, 2017 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

So that's....vague.  Is he still a regular cast member or not?  I'm assuming not.  I'm just wondering how much of a role he'll play in the upcoming season, or if this is going to end up being another Wentworth Miller situation.

[Sakura12]

I figured it wasn't a final goodbye, to me it seemed like Rip was just taking a break. They will probably need the jump ship back or do they have 2? 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

They don't say he's NOT a regular cast member?  So, I'll go with that interpretation until we hear otherwise.  :-)

[Proteus]

47 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Update on Arthur Darvill's status:

Thanks for posting. No word on if he's still a regular, but at least it's something to hold onto for now.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

Rip wasn't really a regular this season either. He was missing for the first half. 

[squidprincess]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Rip wasn't really a regular this season either. He was missing for the first half. 

He was still contracted as a regular, I believe.  (And certainly, he got a pretty heavy amount of screentime and focus in the second half.)  So far we haven't heard anything to indicate otherwise.

[Lady Calypso]

53 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Update on Arthur Darvill's status:

So...it's something. The only thing it confirmed is that he might still show up next season. Except...they already had Rip in a different capacity than being on the team, when he was Evil Rip. They honestly could have kept Evil Rip if they wanted a shakeup. Evil Rip was fun, even if I do love Good Rip too. 

Overall, very vague and only confirms that his sendoff wasn't a permanent and crappy one.

[Proteus]

Here's more info. Who the heck is Kamandi:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/06/legends-tomorrow-season-3-spoilers/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

[Sakura12]

From looking him up, he's a Tarzan looking guy from an Earth run by highly intelligent animals. 

[squidprincess]

Kamandi?!  Okay, that would be kind of awesome.  Sadly though it sounds more like article speculation rather than anything concrete.  

[Lokiberry]

Well, didn't they say that they were going to do something with Jonah Hex that the fans would just love next season? What if the Legends go back to the Old West and find that he and Rip have been shacking up, I mean, teaming up to fight Evol?

How I interpret Showrunner!Speak is that AD is no longer a regular, but he might make an appearance or two if the details can be worked out.

ETA: Here's a couple of articles on Rip's departure:

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-04-06/has-arthur-darvill-left-legends-of-tomorrow-again

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/news/a825274/arthur-darvill-leaves-dc-legends-of-tomorrow-again/

https://www.bustle.com/p/what-happened-to-rip-on-legends-of-tomorrow-the-former-captains-future-is-up-in-the-air-49142

Edited April 6, 2017 by Lokiberry

[MarkHB]

*Jaw drops*

Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth, is the last human on  a Planet of the Apes type planet, except the intelligent talking animals aren't limited to apes. He was created by Jack Kirby, and DC is actually doing a big series with the character this year as part of their celebration of Kirby's centennial. So using him would tie in perfectly.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

Here's more info. Who the heck is Kamandi:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/06/legends-tomorrow-season-3-spoilers/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

43 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Kamandi, the Last Boy on Earth, is the last human on  a Planet of the Apes type planet, except the intelligent talking animals aren't limited to apes. He was created by Jack Kirby, and DC is actually doing a big series with the character this year as part of their celebration of Kirby's centennial. So using him would tie in perfectly.

Cthulhudrew predicted it 2 days ago in the Aruba thread!:

On 4/4/2017 at 10:16 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

So, anyone else thinking Kamandi?

Edited April 6, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[tarotx]

I think AD wants to be allowed to do other things so he doesn't want to be a regular. A regular just means the shows has first rights to the actor.  The Legends are still really in need of a time master but Rip coming in and out on the jumpship opens up the possibility for the actor to come and go. Some actors just want more freedom than US network tv allows. 

[deux]

Does anyone know which characters will be back for season 3? On IMDB almost all Legends are confirmed for a full season (17 episodes). Dominic Purcell is only listed for episode 3.1 so far.

Does Wentworth Miller still has a contract as a recurring character on The Flash or Legends or is he gone for good on both shows?

[Artsda]

Sounds like Rip isn't gone for good, yet.https://tvline.com/2017/04/06/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-rip-hunter-returns/

Quote

At least one of Legends of Tomorrow‘s season-ending mysteries has been solved.

As the CW drama’s sophomore run came to a close this week, Rip Hunter (played by original cast member Arthur Darvill) quietly packed a bag and bid the Waverider and its new captain, Sara, adieu. That, however, does not mean viewers have seen the last of the Brit.

“We’ve got plans for Rip for next year,” Legends showrunner Marc Guggenheim told Entertainment Weekly Radio on Thursday. “It’s just in a different capacity than him being a member of the team.”

As for another burning Q — whether sister series such as Arrow and The Flash will reflect the weird reality on hand when the Legends crash-landed in 2017 Los Angeles — Guggenheim in a word said no. “We never want television to feel like a homework assignment,” where viewers of one #DCTV show must track all of them. “That said… there will be an explanation in Season 3 as to why you’re not seeing dinosaurs run through Central City.”

 

Quote

 

[Maverick]

Quote

. “That said… there will be an explanation in Season 3 as to why you’re not seeing dinosaurs run through Central City.”

 Maybe because they're in LA?

[Lokiberry]

2 hours ago, deux said:

Does anyone know which characters will be back for season 3? On IMDB almost all Legends are confirmed for a full season (17 episodes). Dominic Purcell is only listed for episode 3.1 so far.

Does Wentworth Miller still has a contract as a recurring character on The Flash or Legends or is he gone for good on both shows?

IMDB is notoriously unreliable. Don't put your hopes in anything it has to say, particularly this far out from the new season.

[Maverick]

 I'm starting to think Nate, Amaya or both of them are out early next season.  They ended the season being giddy over announcing their twu luv for each.  Yeah, that's gonna stand.

 I don't have much faith that even if they have something planned out for next season that hey'll carry through.  I still feel like the beginning of season two was a massive swerve from where they let off.   Hourman drops this bombshell on them and then....isn't seen in the follow up at all.  We learn through exposition he said one sentence to the Legends and vanished.  It's never explained why he said Mick sent him and when we do see him again his main function is to die to mo Amaya's plot along.  The whole thing was just weird an disjointed.  

[legaleagle53]

58 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Maybe because they're in LA?

The speaker means that we'll find out why the dinosaurs are confined to LA.  If time was broken for LA, it should be broken for everyone on Earth-1 and throughout Earth-1's universe.

[Delphi]

If Nick and Amaya leave early next year I think it will be as a unit and Nick will end up being Mari's grandfather or whatever. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Delphi

[Proteus]

I just listened to MGs interview.

Natalie Abrams raves about Vixen and how relieved she is that she's staying. She says how this must mean she and Nate will be there for all of next season. MG doesn't respond to that but he says a huge part of the success of season 2 is the additions of Nate & Amaya. WTH? Maybe I can buy the spin about Amaya but Nate?

He says regarding cast changes Legends will always have a "little bit" of a rotating roster and there will be new faces next season. One character he's really excited about because it's a character he's loved for a long time.

He talks about how much he loves Arthur Darvill as well.

[squidprincess]

It occurs to me that we also don't know what kind of role that any of these newcomers are likely to have.   We've been assuming that these new characters will become permanent parts of the team.  But I'm reminded of the press surrounding the JSA at this time last year.  In the end, each cast member of the JSA only appeared in three total episodes.  Obsidian wasn't even the same actor all three times.

Does anyone remember when they first leaked out the casting calls for Amaya and Nate?  

[Starfish35]

4 hours ago, squidprincess said:

Does anyone remember when they first leaked out the casting calls for Amaya and Nate?  

Going back, it looks like it was first announced May 3.

http://tvline.com/2016/05/03/legends-of-tomorrow-season-2-cast-han-solo-female-soldier/

[tennisgurl]

I'm hoping they can bring another magic user of some kind. I think that could add an interesting dynamic to the team, especially with so many science minded people on board. Maybe someone who is more of a magician type (Zatana anyone?) or some kind of mythical type (an Amazon?) to contrast with Amaya's magic totem?

Really, I'm just glad they aren't totally dumping Rip. I love the guy, and I don't want him to leave after seeing all the character development he's had this season.

Edited April 7, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Proteus]

Maybe Zantanna is the character MG is excited about.

tv echo posted these tumblr posts of MG over on the Arrow board. It kind of implies that Nata may be the other Vixens grandfather:

From https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ ...

bones-bb asked:
Hey Marc! Sorry if this has already been asked and answered in some way, but what are the chances of Nate being Mari's grandfather? Or am I way off in thinking that? #LoT #Arrow #Vixen
I really need to master putting GIFs in these things.  Imagine a whistling one…

blackcanarydinah asked:
First, I just want to say Dinah (Juliana) is amazing and she's an amazing Black Canary and I hope we get to see more of her. Second, does Sara (Lance) have a middle name and do you know what it is? Season 5 is amazing!
So glad you like Dinah/Juliana.  We love her, too.
Sara DOES have a middle name.  In my perfect world, it’s my daughter Sara’s middle name.
And thanks for the kind words

[KirkB]

22 hours ago, deux said:

Does Wentworth Miller still has a contract as a recurring character on The Flash or Legends or is he gone for good on both shows?

As I recall, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, after season one of LoT it was revealed that the only reason Miller agreed to do Legends in the first place was if he could not be locked in a contract. He would do one season of LoT and then be a revolving character, available (schedule permitting) to Legends, Flash or even Arrow and Supergirl.