Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Chaser]

I'm going with NO on that one.

 

LOL That's awful

[Sakura12]

I thought this was supposed to be a Team Up show and not about one guy, WTF? They should have a team name. I really hope this wasn't the comprise the EP's got. They get to name the show after their fail character but had to add other fan favorite actors to the roster. 

 

If they want to be bland just name the show "All Star Team Up" or something. I know Heroes was taken and being used again, that one is out. Justice Team/Team Justice would work for me too. Or take a comic title "The Outsiders" or "The Brave and the Bold". 

[Morrigan2575]

i can't believe that's the title, not with the way they've set this up and hell there's more buzz for Sara/CL than ATOM/BR

[Chaser]

The Brave and the Bold sounds like a soap opera. It sound come with a cheesy voiceover Captain Planet style "Let our powers combine!"

 

I want it.

[Sakura12]

Exactly, no one has even asked about the ATOM in any interview I read. It was all about CL being back, the new characters and why only one half of Firestorm. The ATOM was just mentioned as being involved, otherwise no one cared that much. 

 

A Team Up show better have a TEAM name. 

[tarotx]

I am not a fan of Ray. I don't care about his journey. A large chunk of the Fandom is meh to hate on that character. EW just thinking about all these kick ass other characters and actors and we get Atom. Roll eyes at this creative team.

But if Sara is coming back on The Flash time travel could be used. So AU Sara? Perhaps instead of Hooking up with Nyssa she is rescued&trained by The Brothers and/or Lady Shiva?

[FurryFury]

Let's hope it's just an interim name. You know, like "An Untitled (insert star name) Project". It should be clear by this point Atom isn't a huge success with Arrow viewers and he lacks the star power of an A-list superhero like Flash, too. No point in insisting on him to be the title character.

[Ariah]

They should name it after the city it takes place in.

 

Anything like "... League" "....Team" sounds like a Saturday cartoon.

[FurryFury]

Depends on the name of this city. I mean, you can't get more generic than Barry's "Central City" or Supergirl's "National City".

 

Personally, I really like "The Outsiders". Has a nice ring to it, and a built-in theme to explore.

[apinknightmare]

I think naming it after a city makes it sound like a soap opera. 

 

If it's a team-up show, just name it after the team. If it's a show about The Atom, just throw it in the trash*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*kidding 

[nksarmi]

I'd be annoyed if they gave Sara a different name though. It's not fair that she should be renamed just because Laurel decided to run with the nickname her father threw at her in shade. I don't care about the comics. In show canon, Sara is the original Canary and she should remain that way.

I disagree - Canary was Sara's LOA name - a life she at one point wanted to leave behind.  I would completely support her choosing a new name and there are a lot of good reasons for the shows to do this.  And I don't believe they won't - rather its White Canary, Starling (which is a great idea), or Lady Blackhawk as people have been speculating here.  I mean seriously - I don't think they will want to spoil that reveal just yet and if they call her Sara, people will just assume she is Canary.

[Starfish35]

Can't say I'm thrilled by either piece of news (confirmed or not). NO to the name being The Atom. I can't even believe that's a possibility, with all the talk about it being a team-up show rather than focused on one person.

As for Sara being White Canary, can't say I'm crazy about that either, for several reasons. The main problem for me is that I don't trust the writers quite frankly, and White Canary is a villain. Does she have to be a villain? No, absolutely not. But as I said, I have trust issues, and I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have Caity playing a different character altogether than to see Sara brought back as a villain.

ETA: Also, Ariah's right - a white outfit is stupid. :(. Urgh.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

HIM?!

[tarotx]

I gyess because they have the Atom name registered on social media? They could make it stand for something other than just Ray's suit. But even then I'm not watching a show that is Ray focused. Nor one that has Sara as a Black Canary nemesis. This show is going to be more Ray and Laurel propping...

Edited April 9, 2015 by tarotx

[Morrigan2575]

Depends on the name of this city. I mean, you can't get more generic than Barry's "Central City" or Supergirl's "National City".

 

Personally, I really like "The Outsiders". Has a nice ring to it, and a built-in theme to explore.

Outsiders is already taken by a WGN series

[Chaser]

I would be okay with Sara being brought back as a villain/anti-Hero to start. If the resurrect her, she can be fruit loops for awhile. I would like her to considered a hero by the end of season. I still wonder how its going to work with Laurel. If my sister came back the dead in another city and potentially evil, I wouldn't be staying where I was. I would be where she is. 

[nksarmi]

Ok I can't believe the title is The Atom for a host of reasons and they might just be using that around the network because Arrow/Flash Spin-Off is a little lengthy.  BUT if that is the real title, I have to believe it would actually be A.T.O.M. and would stand for the team's name rather than the suit's name.  Like Advanced Technical and Obscure Morality team!  :)

[FurryFury]

Outsiders is already taken by a WGN series

 

This sucks (I don't even know what WGN is, BTW).

 

I still wonder how its going to work with Laurel. If my sister came back the dead in another city and potentially evil, I wouldn't be staying where I was. I would be where she is.

 

Hopefully she doesn't know about it at first and then they'll meet and rehash their issues somewhere offscreen.

[Sakura12]

Wasn't the whole reason Sara couldn't be Black Canary because of her name? Which is why Laurel was just handed the title because she has the right name.

 

White Canary is Asian and also has a name. I get that she's not well known or been around for that long. But she still has a name that is not Sara Lance. Why could Sara be her, but not Black Canary for the same reason. 

 

If my sister came back the dead in another city and potentially evil, I wouldn't be staying where I was. I would be where she is.

 

Laurel didn't care to ask what happened to Sara in those 6 years she was missing or care to ask after she saw her all scarred up. I doubt she'd care now. 

[Morrigan2575]

I disagree - Canary was Sara's LOA name - a life she at one point wanted to leave behind.  I would completely support her choosing a new name and there are a lot of good reasons for the shows to do this.

 

Canary was the name she chose for herself based on her history.  The fact that her father bought her a canary for a pet when she was young and the fact that a Canary (imagined or not) was what she saw before being "rescued" by The Amazo.  

 

The Sara has more of an emotional attachment to the name than just being her LOA name it ties her to both her family/past and her present/future.  Hell even the Captain on The Amazo called her "Little Bird".  Being the Canary is more intrinsically tied to Sara than Laurel or any other character.

 

White Canary is Asian and also has a name. I get that she's not well known or been around for that long. But she still has a name that is not Sara Lance. Why could Sara be her, but not Black Canary for the same reason.

 

And yet you've been arguing that she should be BlackHawk or Starling?  Both of those have have names, both of those are probably more well known than White Canary.  How is it fine for Sara to take the Lady Black Hawk or Starling Name but not White Canary?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Nor one that has Sara as a black Canary nemesis.

If that truly is their angle for bringing Sara back, then no. Hell no, I'm not watching this.

[Delphi]

The Atom and the Outsiders?

Nope that's just as horrible.

[Ariah]

 

Laurel didn't care to ask what happened to Sara in those 6 years she was missing or care to ask after she saw her all scarred up. I doubt she'd care now. 

 

Oh, now she will be interested, because Sara's return can derail Laurel's little Canary stunt. She took up the mantle to honor her sister, right? And now the Original Canary is back. Kind of makes you redundant, doesn't it?

 

I'm sort of afraid Sara will be taken in by a villainous organization and brainwashed a'la Bucky Barnes...

 

(Other not serious propositions for the spin-off's name:

- The Revengers

- ATOM and Friends

- The Watchtower (this is actually a serious one)

[tarotx]

I hope that's not their angle but that is who the White Canary is in the comics.

If that truly is their angle for bringing Sara back, then no. Hell no, I'm not watching this.

[Delphi]

Unfortunately, that one's gone already :( .

She probably wasn't supposed to mention she was on set obviously filming, it was just a pic of her trailer door with a sign from the crew/cast welcoming her.

[Sakura12]

 

And yet you've been arguing that she should be BlackHawk or Starling?  Both of those have have names, both of those are probably more well known than White Canary.  How is it fine for Sara to take the Lady Black Hawk or Starling Name but not White Canary?

 

There is an unknown Lady Blackhawk from Earth-22 that has no name and no history that was in the comics. 

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Lady_Blackhawk_(Earth-22)

 

That's who I figure they can make Sara, not the Zinda Blake Blackhawk. 

[Morrigan2575]

I doubt they're making Sara a villain. 

 

There is an unknown Lady Blackhawk from Earth-22 that has no name and no history that was in the comics

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Lady_Blackhawk_(Earth-22)

 

Yeah because people are going to say Oh Sara's Lady Blackhawk from Earth-22 and not go with the more well known character?  The only people who would sit there and argue over Earth-22 vs Earth Prime or Earth 2 or whatever are comic fanboys.  Everyone else will just say she's taking over the well known character's role by calling herself by a well known character's name.

 

As I recall, you were one of the biggest proponents of making Laurel White Canary back in Season 2, so that Sara could remain Black Canary.  Seems a bit odd that you'd object to Sara becoming White Canary...

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[JJ928]

Seems like ATOM may just be the working title at the moment, according to this pap. https://twitter.com/pursuit23/status/585903677832986624

[blixie]

 

Why could Sara be her, but not Black Canary for the same reason.

Because they do not and never have given a good crap about logical organic storytelling, nor  "comics"? I mean I'm ticked that the story I wanted an actual evil White Canary in the form of Laurel Lance, and keeping our kick ass wonderful Black Canary Sara Lance has now been realized in reverse, but I don't actually care that it doesn't fit the comic underpinning of White Canary, a minor villain with a short run. 

 

I don't know that they are admitting they were "wrong" to kill Sara, because it appears that this was pretty much on the boards since S3 started and they always intended to revive Sara Lance to continue her story as a comic book hero, it's obvious they've wanted to have their cake (fulfill DLL comics destinyKC possibly contractually obligated language) and to eat it to (have an actual kick ass Canary in play).

[Delphi]

I doubt they're making Sara a villain.

Yeah because people are going to say Oh Sara's Lady Blackhawk from Earth-22 and not go with the more well known character? The only people who would sit there and argue over Earth-22 vs Earth Prime or Earth 2 or whatever are comic fanboys. Everyone else will just say she's taking over the well known character's role by calling herself by a well known character's name.

Is Zinda really all that well known outside of the Birds of Prey issues and that zero hour stuff?

Eta: I seriously doubt the CW will let them call the show The Atom after rays less than lukewarm reception.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Delphi

[Sakura12]

As I recall, you were one of the biggest proponents of making Laurel White Canary back in Season 2, so that Sara could remain Black Canary.  Seems a bit odd that you'd object to Sara becoming White Canary...

 

I'm not objecting, if Sara's White Canary I'm fine with that, I'm just trying to understand the EP's thought process in this. Are they admitting that it was mistake to kill Sara and brought her back to still be The Canary. That seems counterproductive since they forced Laurel into that role before she was even ready. If Sara's back with her name what reason does Laurel have to keep using that name? The color thing still means nothing to me, especially if it's just the color of their outfit. Sara can call herself Rainbow Canary and she'd still be The Canary. 

 

And if I had my way Laurel wouldn't even be on the show as anyone, Black Canary or White Canary.

[tarotx]

Larual should be Manhunter. Kate Spencer's Manhunter even had a suit that helped her out. I don't know why the show didn't go in that direction when they clearly don't care about staying 100% true to the Comics.

Sara is the BC of the Comics in nearly every way. Except real name.

[lexicon]

I would be okay with Sara being brought back as a villain/anti-Hero to start. If the resurrect her, she can be fruit loops for awhile. I would like her to considered a hero by the end of season. I still wonder how its going to work with Laurel. If my sister came back the dead in another city and potentially evil, I wouldn't be staying where I was. I would be where she is. 

 

From your lips to the EP's ears. Here's hoping they ship LL off to the spin-off.

[apinknightmare]

Are they admitting that it was mistake to kill Sara and brought her back to still be The Canary. 

 

No, seems to me like they went full-throttle with the plan they had for Laurel and when they saw the chance to have their cake (have Laurel be Black Canary because comics, and, because they thought the reason people didn't like Laurel was BECAUSE they were anxious for her to become Black Canary and were frustrated that she wasn't), and eat it too (bring Sara back in some form), they went for it. 

[Sakura12]

There we go, Laurel can be Manhunter Canary. lol. 

 

Sara can call herself GreyHawk, since colors seem so important to comic fans. If there can be a bunch of different Canaries there can be different Hawks as well. Now we can have a new hero that doesn't exist in the comics and can be added if anyone wants too. 

 

I guess we're going to have two Canaries where one is just much more skilled and trained then the other. Which is probably why they will have to be in different cities. If Sara's around Laurel is not needed.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Is Zinda really all that well known outside of the Birds of Prey issues and that zero hour stuff?

Eta: I seriously doubt the CW will let them call the show The Atom after rays less than lukewarm reception.

No but, that wasn't actually my point.  Non comicbook fans are just going to look up Lady Blackhawk/DC or Blackhawk/DC and find the more obvious version and go with that.  So saying Sara could be the version of Lady Blackhawk from an obscure DC AU because that one had no name. but not White Canary because there isn't a version of her in some obscure DC AU that doesn't have a name doesn't make sense to me.  No one's going to care that about AU vs non-AU.  

 

As for why Sara couldn't be Black Canary but can be White Canary even though she's Sara.  Simple, they already had a Dinah Laurel Lance on the show.  Malcolm Merlyn is NOT the Merlin from the Comics; pre-52 that was Arthur King and post 52 it's Tommy Merlin so I doubt anyone is going to get up in arms about Sara being White Canary.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[nksarmi]

Well ok now I want Nyssa to leave the LOA and take on a new codename and be the floater!!!!! :)

[Delphi]

If they are calling Laurel the Black Canary, I don't see why Sara can't simply be the Canary, she doesn't need a colour assigned to her, she's not a power ranger.

[Sakura12]

Maybe they are going to make the Canaries like Power Rangers and have all different colors for them. 

[FurryFury]

I think there'll be too much confusion if Sara stays just The Canary, with Laurel being BC.

[Starfish35]

she's not a power ranger.

This made me lol. :) Go go Power Canaries!

[Sakura12]

Supposedly Caity was spotted on The Flash set. But since the Arrow set and the Flash set are right next to each other that doesn't mean much and the spin off set is probably going to be near them too. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

If she's on the Flash set, might she be an AU Sara after all? That might explain sudden!White Canary.

On the other hand, AU Sara might be an easy way to make her a villain. *sigh* Nope, still struggling with those trust issues.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Starfish35

[Velocity23]

I have a feeling she will show up on both Flash & Arrow. But the Flash is on its finishing touches for its finale. And Arrow barely started shooting. Especially with how the Flash with air one week after the Arrow finale. I wouldnt be surprised if we see BR on the Flash also.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Velocity23

[Angel12d]

I disagree - Canary was Sara's LOA name - a life she at one point wanted to leave behind.  I would completely support her choosing a new name and there are a lot of good reasons for the shows to do this.  And I don't believe they won't - rather its White Canary, Starling (which is a great idea), or Lady Blackhawk as people have been speculating here.  I mean seriously - I don't think they will want to spoil that reveal just yet and if they call her Sara, people will just assume she is Canary.

 

Regardless of it being her LOA name, it's still her name. She chose it and she was using it even after she left the LOA for a while. IMO, she'll always be the Canary. Actually whenever I saw her on screen I thought she was Black Canary but that's a rant for another thread.

[catrox14]

Maybe they will fool us all and make Laurel WC because IMO Laurel has more reason to be cray cray than anyone and IMO KC does that better than playing a hero. Then Sara can return to being BC and come in and out of SC as needed.

[KirkB]

Wasn't the spinoff originally just supposed to be Ray's? I have no doubt the title was going to be The Atom, since that's who it was about. They're probably just sticking with the title they already had in place until someone comes up with a better one. 

[Morrigan2575]

Wasn't the spinoff originally just supposed to be Ray's? I have no doubt the title was going to be The Atom, since that's who it was about. They're probably just sticking with the title they already had in place until someone comes up with a better one. 

Agreed, the plan from it appears August (which is when they started pimping Ray and Raylicity almost identical to Barry/Baricity) was to make The ATOM a spin-off.  I'm assuming the working title is just because that's what they've been calling it from the beginning (at least that's what I hope).  The spin-off that is currently in contention and being talked about by Berlanti/AJK/MG appears to be a Team Show, so I don't think The ATOM is what the actual show will be called if/when it gets picked up.

[icandigit]

I thought it was obvious CL would be playing the Canary? She couldn't, logically, play anyone else because everyone who watches these shows knows her as Sara.

All this screams that they know they messed up killing off Sara but now they get the best of both worlds. Canary and BC. I can't help but wonder what KC thinks of this because Sara will always be the better Canary.

By the way. Have they started their whole. This was our plan along see. I've been waiting for that spin.

Edited April 9, 2015 by icandigit

[tv echo]

hello-ember61 asked:

Hi Marc. I have many questions and I really hope that someday be answered ... I have a facebook page where I upload information from the Arrow / The Flash series for Latin America, and well, I have several questions. 1 What is the name of the series will star where Atom and Canary? and 2 Aside from having connection with Arrow and Flash, Will Vixen connection?

1) We haven’t announced the title yet.

2) Right now, Vixen is only going to be animated.  But maybe that will change at some point.  But the animated series is in our “Arrowverse.”

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited April 9, 2015 by tv echo