S30: Carolyn Rivera

[Donny Ketchum]

Hi.  I have a thirty-six-year relationship with my husband and three successful children.  I also want to be like two-time winner Sandra and Denise.

 

Good players to follow, so that could be a good sign.

[Donny Ketchum]

Always fun when a woman finds a hidden Immunity Idol, for a change.  Glad she got it right out of under So and Joaquin's noses, even though I'm rather surprised she managed it.

 

But she must've been pretty damn confident in her alliance with Shirin and Max if she didn't play it at Tribal Council.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[Tryangle]

She revealed that she found the hidden Immunity Idol relatively quickly, I suppose it's to convince the others to not vote her out.

 

Definitely astute gameplay on her part to tail So and Joaquin early on, and of course finding the idol before they did. Potential to go far in this game, no doubt.

[Miss Scarlet]

I feel like she has already earned the honour of being able to quote the great Drew Christy and say "basically I'm a bad ass".

 

She seems like she might be a bit abrasive, but she came ready to play and I like that.

[kikaha]

Finding the HII, and the way she did that, was excellent.  I felt she did not handle tribal all that well though.  Ruffled feathers when she didn't need to, said things that did not help her cause.  If we see more of that behavior, I think she won't last all that long. 

[ProfCrash]

She reminds me of Trish. Lots of attitude, no filter, and very, very brash

[peachmangosteen]

Yes! She reminds me so much of Trish. I liked Trish better. I wanna like Carolyn but she bordered on insufferable to me in the premiere. I'm open to liking her though.

Edited March 3, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[LadyChatts]

I'm still liking Carolyn, but I think her strategy of sitting back last night while everyone looked for the idol is going to make her a target.  Even Tyler was towing the line of playing dumb and looking for an idol that was already found.  She will probably follow the Survivor tradition of getting blindsided with the idol in her pocket.  Should the WC tribe lose another challenge before the tribe swap/merge, she probably assumes Joaquin will be the target since he was on the outs of the alliance.  Seemed a little too comfortable last night.

 

I am still glad she's here, though.  Wonder if So regrets not trying to team with the two ladies and Joaquin instead of the alliance that ultimately booted her out first now that she sees how well they are doing.

[Hera]

She stayed back, claiming to be "watching the fire", so it may be that her allies promised her that they'd let her know if anything was found. From their point of view, it's one person fewer looking so one person fewer to have to compete with for the idol. And anyway, it seemed like the only reason everyone else was looking was because Joaquin and Shirin were both trying to find it.

 

I thought it was interesting that her entire alliance didn't seem to know about her idol—just Tyler.

[LadyChatts]

I'll mention again how much I love Carolyn.  I was iffy on her at first, but I'm so glad she's still in this game.  In a CBS video with Tyler, he mentioned he was glad he was with Joaquin but had been close to Carolyn and was disappointed when she went to the other tribe with Max/Shirin.  It'll be interesting once the tribes merge, how the dynamics shift.  I hope she doesn't go running back to Tyler and do whatever he decides, but after tonight she's got a little game play going on.  I don't think it was a bad move at all to vote against Max.

[Donny Ketchum]

I'll mention again how much I love Carolyn.  I was iffy on her at first, but I'm so glad she's still in this game.  In a CBS video with Tyler, he mentioned he was glad he was with Joaquin but had been close to Carolyn and was disappointed when she went to the other tribe with Max/Shirin.  It'll be interesting once the tribes merge, how the dynamics shift.  I hope she doesn't go running back to Tyler and do whatever he decides, but after tonight she's got a little game play going on.  I don't think it was a bad move at all to vote against Max.

I agree!  I love Carolyn, too!  I think she's doing a good job for a woman her age!  And it's good to see a woman of a certain age with some actual game!  And I, too, think it wasn't that bad of her to move against Max.  She didn't trust him or Shirin, so why not jump to some new people you could trust?  And Jenn, Hali, and Will were very welcoming to her, so I'm sure that they can all do some damage if they reach the merge intact.

 

I do think it's jarring how much she fell from liking Max and Shirin and her alliance with them to completely not liking or trusting them at all.  They could've shown the beats to that.

[Lingo]

I thought they laid the groundwork of her not liking or trusting them much last week.  Although maybe I'm confusing last week with the first hour of this week!

 

Anyway, she's my favorite so far, and I feel like she may be getting a winner edit, though I should really refrain from saying things like that after last season!

Edited March 19, 2015 by Lingo

[KimberStormer]

Here's a good example of me seeing what I want to see, perhaps, because I just don't like Carolyn one little bit.  But her gameplay went down really badly in my estimation this episode.  I feel like she proved that game considerations were not the reason she voted against Max and Shirin last time; she was playing emotionally and wanted to take them down a peg.  Just as I hope Sierra can make Dan pay for his treatment of her post-vote, I hope being an asshole to Shirin comes back to bite Carolyn in the butt.

 

The comparison to Trish above is interesting.  Trish certainly could be abrasive and emotional.  She also could play an amazingly subtle and perfectly timed game when she wanted to.  Can Carolyn?  I haven't seen any interpersonal game at all from her.

[peachmangosteen]

The comparison to Trish above is interesting.  Trish certainly could be abrasive and emotional.  She also could play an amazingly subtle and perfectly timed game when she wanted to.  Can Carolyn?  I haven't seen any interpersonal game at all from her.

 

Yea, Trish was a much better player than Carolyn. Much better.

 

And I agree with you, Carolyn proved in the last ep that her vote was almost entirely emotional. I too hope it comes back to bite her vis a vis Shirin.

Edited March 28, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[NutMeg]

You guys, I feel like I have to defend Carolyn here. I agree that she played it badly with Shirin this episode, but otherwise she's been pretty flawless before that. She has strong allies (or she had, as one of them was voted off in the other tribe), she gets on pretty well with her new tribe, she's not in danger with them, she has a HII, and what is most intriguing to me she's a HR person - her comments the first episode intrigued me, because whereas a number of HR people are pretty crappy TBH some of them are incredibly good at their job, and something she says then made me think she might be one of the astute ones.

 

I also don't like that the first mistake she made - or any perceived mistake, such as voting Max out last episode, which for me was a good decision - is being crapped on, whereas Shirin has tons of people ready to excuse any awkward move she makes. This very much seems like double standard to me. Like Hali (;-) ) I root for the underdog, and on this board I'd say Carolyn is more the underdog than Shirin. TBH, in real life, I'd love to have a long talk with Carolyn, but I doubt I could stand Shirin for more than 30-40 min. I've just watched her intro video, and I feel there's a lot of fake cheerfulness with her which would drive me crazy in real life. But I understand that mileages vary etc. and that's the beauty of a forum as great as this one :-)

[peachmangosteen]

I root for the underdog, and on this board I'd say Carolyn is more the underdog than Shirin.

 

I too root for the underdog and I think Shirin is clearly the underdog game-wise. Although Carolyn might be as well actually. I'm not convinced she's that in with new Red. I think Jenn/Hali/Will will drop her for Joe and Shirin.

 

ETA: Also, I haven't really seen much of Shirin getting excused. Even the people that like her know she sucks at the game!

Edited March 28, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[NutMeg]

Hey, peachmangosteen, I agree, but so many people here like Shirin as a person, and so few show love for Carolyn, who I genuinely find more interesting (maybe because I don't know as much about her and would like to, whereas I think Shirin has shown much more than I cared to know about herl!). 

[peachmangosteen]

I don't know as much about her and would like to, whereas I think Shirin has shown much more than I cared to know about herl!). 

 

LOL! I can understand that.

 

I want to like Carolyn, but she just rubs me the wrong way. It might simply be because she liked Tyler/Joaquin and I do not like them. I am interested to see how she plays the merge next week. And I certainly would rather watch her than all the guys, except maybe Will, and Kelly!

[NutMeg]

Why don't you like Tyler? It's probably once again one of these YMMV but he's been intriguing to me from the start, and the only frustrating thing to me about him is that we don't see enough of him, because I think he might be a very good player - based on first (episodes) impressions, granted, and not much thereafter, but I've liked his cool, collected, thinking persona whenever we were allowed a glimpse of it.   

[ToastnBacon]

She sure as hell out talked So in the first TC, but I don't see her going far because I think she'll get blindsided to take out the idol everyone knows she has.

[NutMeg]

As far as I know, only Tyler knows she has the idol - did I miss something? 

[ToastnBacon]

I thought half the tribe was standing there when she told Tyler that, but you might be right cause now I'm doubting what I remember.

Edited March 28, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[NutMeg]

We might have not seen the whole story (that wouldn't the first time regarding HII - I remember wondering why people were not getting rid of Boston Rob the first time he didn't win Immunity during the season he ended up winning, but then it turned out, much later, in interviews of people voted off, that they had known for a while that he had the HII, although the when and how was never shown to us viewers, and that it had influenced their voting strategy) but so far, from what we've seen and from what Tyler has said, he's the only one who knows she has it. 

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, from what we know she only told Tyler. I could see her being targeted at merge and being blindsided enough to not use it.

[KimberStormer]

She sure as hell out talked So in the first TC,

 

I just remember her repeating whatever So said in an annoying confrontational sarcastic voice.  "Oh, so I'm weak?"  Drove me up the wall.  But like I say that's probably why I think she's playing badly: I want her to be playing badly, because I don't like her.

 

Liking Shirin more than Carolyn, yep, guilty as charged.  But I don't think Shirin is playing well either.

[LadyChatts]

I'm still a Carolyn fan.  I like Shirin, too, so it'd be nice for them to bury the hatchet and work together rather than what will probably be against each other.  Carolyn had been on the outs with Max from the first TC aftermath.  I don't consider her deciding to vote him out as being emotional as much as it probably was strategic.  She didn't like or trust him, Shirin apparently was his shadow out there, so why not get rid of a threat and earn some credit with other tribe members?  Whether it ends up paying off for her after the merge or not remains to be seen.  Given that Max's sole purpose was to create blindsides and chaos, I don't think it would have benefited her to stick with him anyway.  Since there's so much talk about breaking up "the power couples" this season, I could see Carolyn getting bounced mainly because of her loyalty to Tyler.  Of course if Tyler decides to stick with the former BC and he brings her in, that might benefit her for awhile.  She may not be happy they got rid of Joaquin, however.  Who knows how it will go!  It's why I'm excited for next week.  

 

There really hasn't been enough of Carolyn or the old WC tribe shown for me to really get a dislike of her.  I'm betting there was a lot more to her and Shirin this week.  I don't think her game has been so horrible, what little we've seen of it.  In regards to the HII-I've never understood the logic of not targeting someone because they have it.  Yeah, the worst case is that they play it and someone gets sacrificed.  And if you're the one getting bounced because of a risky move, it would suck.  But for those still in the game, it'd be worth it getting the idol out of play, at least until someone else finds it.  

Edited March 28, 2015 by LadyChatts

[LadyChatts]

I wonder if there's some rule with the Tyler/Carolyn alliance that only one of them is allowed airtime.  First Tyler was invisible, now suddenly he's becoming front and center and Carolyn has faded into the background.  I started off liking Carolyn and was really rooting for her, but she's disappointed the last few weeks.  Tyler seemed reluctant to flip because of her, but I wonder if that's his cover story and will use it to claim he was being loyal.  I don't know Tyler's game, but I wouldn't be surprised if he subtly calls the shots but lets her think it was her idea.  Of course, given that so much strategizing and game play is being left out, I'm not even sure I feel right criticizing her lack of game play too much since we aren't seeing a heck of a lot. 

 

I feel as though we are due for another unexpected blindside, so I won't be surprised if she's the one who gets sent packing, idol in hand.  If she gets double crossed I pick her to be the bitter betty on the jury. 

Edited April 19, 2015 by LadyChatts

[ByaNose]

Both Carolyn & Tyler have been missing (along with Sierra) which is weird because I thought Carolyn was doing to be a big character. She talked a lot in the first two episodes and then nada. Of course, she has the idol. It will be interesting to see if she uses it or is voted out with it in her bag. You would think with the merge and so few people left we would have seen more of her but I think in the last 2 episodes she didn't say anything let alone get a confessional.

[KimberStormer]

I'm not complaining, the less Carolyn the better, in my opinion.  I suppose she'll get a big edit when she's voted out, taking her smug ass to Ponderosa with all the young people she hates.

[LadyChatts]

I'm not complaining, the less Carolyn the better, in my opinion.  I suppose she'll get a big edit when she's voted out, taking her smug ass to Ponderosa with all the young people she hates.

 

That will be the only satisfaction.  I don't like when the young target the old because they believe they are weak and unproductive, but I equally hate when there's the mentality that the oldies don't want anyone under a certain age to win.  I have mixed feelings on Carolyn.  I'm surprised she's getting such a low key edit lately, though considering everyone left and all the idol and Joe drama, I guess I can understand how she sunk back under the radar.  Now that Joe is gone, perhaps we'll see some of this game playing that appears to be going on.  Since she wasn't a target, maybe she was just laying low.  I did want to like her, and given the fact that she was targeted early on solely for her age, I'm glad she more than proved herself.  She seems to have a good head on her shoulders regarding the game and since she seems to have a big, opinionated mouth, I thought we'd be getting some interesting sound bites and confessionals from her.  At this point, though, I wouldn't miss her in the game.  Frankly I'm more interested in what's going on at Ponderosa each week at this point.  Wish those clips were longer!

[willgracefan]

Anyone else think that Carolyn has tattooed eyeliner on? 

[Special K]

Anyone else think that Carolyn has tattooed eyeliner on? 

 

Yes, and she looks like a damn fool.  Don't women know that makeup styles (like hairstyles) change!?!

[Lingo]

I think she must be getting some blowback on how she treated Shirin and Max, because this is her plea on ew.com to be voted into S31:
 
 

What will you do differently this time around? I would clearly focus on building long-term relationships this time around—getting to know people more deeply and accepting the differences that people bring as part of who they are. My first time playing, I wanted to play a straightforward game and I sometimes came across as hard and close-minded with my "Game Face" on all the time. I am truly a lighthearted funny person that enjoys cultural differences, and I want to be able to show Survivor fans that side of me. Survivor is the greatest game ever. One fabulous component of the game is that you form lifelong bonds with people because of what you go through together. What I learned is that it is okay to be different and not everyone has to have the same values as me. That is the magic of the game and why I would love to be able to put myself through it again. This game has opened my eyes to accept differences and accept people for who they are. Each one of us has our own quirks, and that is what makes the world a better place. I will play the game with this more accepting tone and understanding. This is personal development for me and a challenge that I want to endure. I feel like I can take home the prize. #1, #Sole Survivor. #Yeahbaby.

 

 
(Ugh, hashtags.)
http://www.ew.com/gallery/survivor-second-chance-contenders/2182908_carolyn-rivera

[ElleryAnne]

I wanted to play a straightforward game and I sometimes came across as hard and close-minded with my "Game Face" on all the time. I am truly a lighthearted funny person

 

 

I can believe this.  I don't excuse most of the behavior we've seen from the players this season based on editing (abhorrent behavior is what it is), but I can buy the idea that Carolyn's smugness was at least partly her "game face", and I do think there have been hints that she's capable of being lighthearted.  

 

 

This game has opened my eyes to accept differences and accept people for who they are.

 

 

I wish she'd learned that earlier in life, but better late than never, I guess.

 

 

I will play the game with this more accepting tone and understanding.

 

 

And that's where she'll need to balance what she's learned against how to still play the game.  She won't do herself any favors if she tries to play a second game with an artificially "accepting tone" and ends up coming across as more smug than she has this time around, or even worse, as condescending.  (There could be a bit of that creeping through her comment above, but some of that could also be white-collar speak.)

 

 

(Ugh, hashtags.)

 

 

Heh.  That's my reaction to them every time I see the damn things anymore.

[Special K]

I can't stand how that pronouncement reads -- that stupid careful corporate speak.  I wonder how many PR people were involved in "crafting"  or "wordsmithing" it?  The most idiotic is where she describes herself as a "person that enjoys cultural differences."  Yeah, that doesn't sound like you just walked out of diversity training or anything.

 

Reminds me of that warning on take-out coffee cups:  "The beverage you are about to enjoy is extremely hot."

[fishcakes]

Her statement is such a pantload.

[Special K]

Yeah, or what fishcakes said.

[ljenkins782]

Her statement is such a pantload.

Lol. Definite corporate-speak going on there. 

 

In any case, I just have no interest in seeing Carolyn on a second season. Hell, I barely care that she's on THIS season. 

 

Not that she's not playing a decent game or anything, but she's just not compelling TV. She has a good a shot (or better) to win as anyone out there, but it hasn't been entertaining to watch her get there. 

[LadyChatts]

I can't say I'm a Carolyn fan, but she's a better choice than 3 of the alternatives left.  Loved her idol play, and that it ultimately got Dan ejected.  Loved seeing that cocky smirk wiped off his face, and Will and Rodney get the big eyes.  I can't remember where I read it, but apparently either Carolyn or Tyler said either Shirin had the idol or that someone else on WC had it and it was out of play.  Still, why take a chance.  They had 4 people, plus Dan's vote.  They could have easily split and got Sierra out, or at least forced a tie.  But that would require strategic common sense.  Her and Jenn's idol play=2 of the best ever.  Mainly because they came out of nowhere for everyone else.  Mike playing the idol for Shirin would have been a trifecta.  Of course he was smart not to in that case.

 

I do like the fact that not everyone was aware that idols were out there and who had them.  I'm surprised more thought wasn't put into that, but very happy for how it played out.  Very smart for Carolyn to keep that close to her chest, and I'm glad Tyler never spilled the beans.  I think Carolyn has earned her win.  She wouldn't be my favorite, but at least I can say it was well earned.  I said this in the episode thread, but whether by luck or smarts, she seems to have been one of the only ones to make moves when it counted.

[NutMeg]

O Carolyn, I feel for you. You've played your game flawlessly so far but now you're tainted by the assholes you chose to align with. And disliked for the way your face looks. I think you're strong enough to not let it affect you IRL, and I think you are seriously enjoying your time out there, know when to lie low and when to strike. I hope we had heard more from you and your game than we did (even my son is rooting against you, because you're supposed to be "smug"). I don't really see it and was ok from your point of view with all your decisions (even when I hated them, because I would have much rather kept this lovable NC on my TV and gotten rid of the likes of Dan, Will, and probably Sierra who if editing is to be believed is all talk and no action). I cannot fault you for keeping Rodney around, not only does (did) he want to keep you, but his edithing as Wile E. Coyote never gets old :-) Based on editing, I don't think you win, but hey, I've been wrong before and I hope to be proven wrong. But whatever the outcome, you played one hell of a game, even if most of it was hidden from us viewers. To be able to cosy up to the terrible, terrible people you aligned with must have been tough (as evidenced by your joy at being away from them during rewards) and I'd say the constraint you showed is severely underappreciated.  

[ProfCrash]

Carolyn has played a good, under the radar game. I have described her as smug and think that she gives off that vibe. She has been much more fun to watch the last few episodes but that is because the editors are finally showing her game. I think that Tyler and Carolyn's game were not shown as completely because they were not as compelling as the Dan vs Sierra/Lindsey/Shirin/Mike and Will vs Shirin stuff.

 

That said, I did not find Carolyn's reason for flipping on her White Collar tribe all that compelling, she didn't like Max and, by proxy, Shirin. Her conversation with Shirin after Max was voted out was not something that I found to be enjoyable. Carolyn's move worked for her and Tyler in the long run but it was risky and, in many ways, unnecessary, since the White Collars had numbers. Kelly was going to work with the White Collars until she found out that Carolyn was flipping. So Carolyn gambled that she would be better off when she was a minority member of an alliance and would have fewer numbers then either of the other remain tribes at the merge. Because she didn't like Max.

 

That, in my mind, is not great game play.

 

Since then, Carolyn has done a nice job of sitting back and letting things play out the way they did. She knew that Mike needed her vote and that she was not going to be targeted by him until they got to 7. Rodney had approached her about a final four so she was probably in good shape even when they got to the final seven. There was no reason for her to be scrambling or panicking. She could sit back and let the big personalities play it out.

 

I won't have a problem with her winning but I think she made a risky move that she didn't need to make because she disliked someone. And yes, she comes off as smug but I think that should have been mitigated if the editors had showed more of what she was doing instead of just showing shots of her randomly and her tribal council demeanor.

[NutMeg]

My guess is that, after Carolyn secured Tyler as a strong ally, she realized that Max was an opportune ally at best, i.e. not to be trusted for the long run (maybe he talked a lot about big moves, which to a player in is alliance wouldn't sound reassuring) and more closely allied with Shirin. So why not get out the shaky ally, work on others (as she then did) and hope that Tyler was doing the same on the other tribe? At the end of the day, voting out Max was not wrong, because Carolyn is still in the game and playing with people more transparent game-wise/predictable than he was. Alienating Shirin was not a good move, but if Carolyn was sitting next to Dan and Will, I doubt even Shirin would hold that against her. 

 

As a general rule, and more particularly in the 3 tribe format, I don't think sticking with your original tribe is the be all and end all strategy. Mike did for as long as he could, but is now the target of all those who didn't. Best conter-example I could find right away. That strategy works only if all are on the same page, and even then is no garantee of success (see: Sierra). If Max couldn't even be bothered to tell Carolyn he was including her in his master plan, I don't think it bode well for her being able to have her say with him down the road. YMMV etc.

[kikaha]

My recollection is that Carolyn couldn't stand Shirin.  Even called her out, IIRC, in a very insulting way.  That made any alliance with Max pretty iffy.  Also, the two of them thoroughly alienated their WC tribemates: they constantly strategized with each other, separate from the others but in full view.  I think they had close to zero social awareness.  Huge strikes against them in this heavily social game. 

 

I enjoyed Carolyn's celebrations at tribal, after she played the idol, and watched the votes mount up against her, each one not counting.  Second only to Jenn's famous laughter when she played her idol several episodes earlier. 

[peachmangosteen]

I won't have a problem with her winning but I think she made a risky move that she didn't need to make because she disliked someone. And yes, she comes off as smug but I think that should have been mitigated if the editors had showed more of what she was doing instead of just showing shots of her randomly and her tribal council demeanor.

 

This. It took me a long time to accept Carolyn as a winner because she seemed to be making all her decisions based on who she liked more and she seemed to like people I hated, plus the smugness. But honestly I think Carolyn could've been very well liked by audience if her edit had been different. She was obviously playing a pretty good game and I think she was the driving force in the Tyler/Carolyn alliance, but they didn't show any of that. She was practically invisible for a long stretch of eps in the middle of the season.

[LadyChatts]

I thought Carolyn had this in the bag, and at the very least, though the vote would be closer than it was.  I'm not surprised she didn't get the NC + Shirin votes, but thought Tyler would still vote for her.  She seemed very down.  And then not getting picked for the second chance-well, I think CBS screwed that up for her.  Obviously, Mike was in if he hadn't won, but he got a more favorable and visible edit than Carolyn did.  Plus, she couldn't campaign to the extent of the other hopefuls.  Why CBS wouldn't find a way to let her and Mike do that without giving away anything, I don't know.  These are the same people who spoiled part of the final 4. 

 

I didn't like Carolyn that much as the season progressed, but I thought she had to fight hard and was deserving of her placement.  I feel sorry for this crowd that so much was taken away from their experience by the drama.

Edited May 21, 2015 by LadyChatts