All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, rcc said:

Did LaSalle really ask the writers to break up his character with Corday?

Yes.  Last time this came up in discussion here, I looked up exact quotes from him, so I'm just going to copy and paste my previous post:

I liked Benton and Corday together, but that relationship didn't exist in a vacuum, and I thus don't take issue with LaSalle's objections to it.  There weren't exactly a plethora of black couples on top-rated prime time shows back then.  I remembered the gist of what he said, but went back to look at old articles for specifics.  He said he liked working with Alex Kingston and liked the relationship, but in context he just was not comfortable with the message it was sending to the show's large black audience:

"As an African American man, it becomes a bit offensive if the negative things [in relationships between black characters] are all you’re showing.  Because in real life, we romance and get on each other’s nerves and laugh and do all the things that any other race of people do.  So if the only time you show a balanced relationship is in an interracial relationship, whether it’s conscious or sub-conscious, it sends a message I’m not comfortable with.

“They were sending a message that I didn’t want to be a part of, which was the only time that this man becomes human and tender and vulnerable and open is when he falls in love with a white woman.”

“[Of] the two relationships that I had prior to Corday, one was an adulterous relationship with Jeanie Boulet and then the next relationship I got into was with Carla.  And unfortunately the writing there was, every time you see them they’re either fighting or fucking.”

(In another interview, he said the same thing: "We have to take care of the message that we're sending as African Americans . . . that we have the exact same type of exchanges with our mates that we get to see our white counterparts have.")

[doodlebug]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:15 PM, jjj said:

I noticed a lot of blurring in the first few seasons this summer, when they reran on POP -- and I too was amazed [this summer] about the amount of almost-nudity that was on the show back in the late 1990s.  I just did not recall it much, back then.  Of course, I did not have HD then, which really makes everything so clear! 

      Oy, I love Sally Fields, but this turgid storyline is too distant from the actual hospital stories.  I never felt that way with Benton's mother or Susan's sister.  They were filtered into other stories in a very different way.  Many smaller scenes, not long ones like with Sally Fields.  I caught a few episodes on the weekend, and went, yup, this is why I stopped watching back then. 

And it only gets worse as she and Abby eat up an entire episode out of the ER later this season.  And we get a couple return trips from her over the next few seasons as well as a storyline with Abby's brother that eats up huge hunks of another season, beating the dead horse of poor widdle Abby's unhappy family to death.  If anyone wonders why so many regular viewers got sick of Abby, these storylines present the problem pretty well.

Quote

"robot Michael Michele" that's so right. I have never seen her in anything else but in this show she is just awful. Benton is only relatable when he is with his son and when he brought Carter to rehab. Otherwise his character is cold. Two robotic actors trying to get some chemistry going. Big fail.

Her nickname on TWOP was Cleobot.  The whole thing could've been avoided if a better actress than Michael Michelle had been cast in the role, I think. Most ANY actress would've been an improvement. It also seemed like the writers were too busy writing more and more stuff for Abby and her mom as well as Luka to establish them as characters and they gave Cleo short shrift.  The writing for Cleo was also inconsistent.  We get a couple of episodes of Cleo being pissed at Benton for not being in tune with his blackness and not being concerned enough about racial issues.  Then, when faced with the opportunity to help a disadvantaged black teen leave a gang; Cleo has a fit about it; complains when Benton has to go to the ghetto to find the kid, complains the kid is too noisy and too messy and repeatedly tries to get her out of her house.  Not that Benton had any right to foist the kid on Cleo (and not that she wasn't right about the kid not being trustworthy), but she made virtually no effort whatsoever to ever try to be kind to the kid or spend a minute wondering about how she got so messed up.  She was all talk and no action when it came to supporting African American causes.

Edited October 18, 2017 by doodlebug

[WendyCR72]

13 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

And we get a couple return trips from her over the next few seasons as well as a storyline with Abby's brother that eats up huge hunks of another season

And, to make matters worse, it is the same storyline with Abby's brother that has already been told via her mom. So we just go through it again, this time with a guy. Only this time, we get hijinx! Carter can't just mourn the passing of his grandmother. No, let's have Abby's brother cause a scene and fall into the grave site dug for Mrs. Carter!

And that really pissed me off because Carter deserved better. He was there from word go and his relationship with his grandmother was one of his most defining, but no. Let's let Abby and her family eat that up, too.

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And, to make matters worse, it is the same storyline with Abby's brother that has already been told via her mom. So we just go through it again, this time with a guy. Only this time, we get hijinx! Carter can't just mourn the passing of his grandmother. No, let's have Abby's brother cause a scene and fall into the grave site dug for Mrs. Carter!

And that really pissed me off because Carter deserved better. He was there from word go and his relationship with his grandmother was one of his most defining, but no. Let's let Abby and her family eat that up, too.

And we also got Abby, the neediest needer that ever needed.  Carter's grandmother, the only family member he ever really connected with, dies in her sleep (she was old and sick but her death somewhat unexpected) and Abby is utterly stunned that at that very moment, Carter is not thinking about running around cross country with her to gather up another of her crazy relatives.  After all, Gamma is dead, she's not going anywhere.  Then, her brother falls into Gamma's grave because he is floridly manic, but Abby decides to bring him along to the funeral anyway (in the Carter family limo, no less).  Abby wins the prize of worst girlfriend ever and is certainly a contender for the dumbest one also.  She does manage to top herself with Luka, though as worst wife ever (once again because he has the nerve to want to be with his dying father rather than hang out in Chicago listening to her complain about how tough it is to be a mother and a doctor incessantly).

[Bastet]

I know I can just wait and see, but how does Abby wind up with Carter, anyway?  She's dating Luka (why you keep dating someone who kills a mugger on your first date, I do not know) and Carter immediately dismissed her "men and women aren't supposed to sponsor each other" reminder (her "thanks" in response was pretty funny), meaning he doesn't think of her that way.  So does this become some insipid triangle, and she switches from Luka to Carter, then back?  Ugh; not exactly something to look forward to. 

I've apparently blocked the entire relationship from my mind; I remember her with Luka, but not with Carter (and I was definitely watching, because I remember Gamma dying -- I have just somehow managed to forget someone falling in a grave).

[doodlebug]

42 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I know I can just wait and see, but how does Abby wind up with Carter, anyway?  She's dating Luka (why you keep dating someone who kills a mugger on your first date, I do not know) and Carter immediately dismissed her "men and women aren't supposed to sponsor each other" reminder (her "thanks" in response was pretty funny), meaning he doesn't think of her that way.  So does this become some insipid triangle, and she switches from Luka to Carter, then back?  Ugh; not exactly something to look forward to. 

I've apparently blocked the entire relationship from my mind; I remember her with Luka, but not with Carter (and I was definitely watching, because I remember Gamma dying -- I have just somehow managed to forget someone falling in a grave).

Abby not only kept dating Luka, she actively chased after him and initiated the relationship, she likes 'sad and dark'.  There have already  been several scenes where Carter looks at Abby like a lovesick puppy or is disrespectful and /or rude o Luka.

It becomes pretty clear shortly that Carter is crushing on Abby and doesn't think Luka deserves her which leads to multiple pissing contests between them.  Abby and Carter, in addition to working together and going to meetings together, spend a fair amount of off-time together involved in juvenile hijinks like the car vandalizing at the charity benefit/senior prom thing they attended early in the season.  Eventually, Abby gets sick of Luka not paying enough attention to her (remember she complained he never gets jealous) and Luka gets sick of her passive aggressive attitude and the moping and they have a massive fight (he famously tells her she's not that pretty, not that special).  They break up and she moves on to Carter soon afterward in massively dysfunctional fashion.  After she ruins his grandmother's funeral, Carter is pretty much done with her and he breaks up with her via mail while he is working in Africa.

Edited October 18, 2017 by doodlebug
Tenses didn't agree

[Bastet]

36 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

(remember she complained he never gets jealous)

No, because I just have these on my office TV while I work, and only pay sporadic attention.  At this point I still like Abby (and I remember liking her for however long I watched the first time around), but what the actual fuck with complaining a romantic partner isn't jealous?  Jealousy should be a deal breaker, not a goal!  Let's look at the relevant definitions, shall we?

- disposed to suspect rivalry or unfaithfulness

- vigilant in guarding a possession

So she wants her boyfriend to view/respond to her every action as if she's untrustworthy, and/or regard her as a possession?! 

Maybe this is why I apparently repressed the memory of watching this shit.

[jjj]

So, nice surprise on Monday evening:  episodes from Season 5 are still cycling through there, so there is still Season 6 to go!  Looks like two episodes from Season 5 next Monday.  (POP had been running episodes out of cycle on Tuesdays in the summer.)

It is so refreshing to see Jeannie (pre-child) and Carol (pre-baby) and Corday (pre-Greene) and Carter (pre-drugs) and Benton (pre-Cleobot) and even the control-freak Weaver (pre-bi) -- there was such a good chemistry in ER in Season 5 and the early part of 6 even after Doug left. 

Oh, well, I got my Saturdays back!

[absnow54]

I liked Benton and Corday together, but that relationship didn't exist in a vacuum, and I thus don't take issue with LaSalle's objections to it. There weren't exactly a plethora of black couples on top-rated prime time shows back then. I remembered the gist of what he said, but went back to look at old articles for specifics. He said he liked working with Alex Kingston and liked the relationship, but in context he just was not comfortable with the message it was sending to the show's large black audience:

I totally understand and support LaSalle's reasoning, but I think the Benton/Corday pairing and Benton/Carter's friendship showed that Peter's character needed someone with a sense of humor. I really wish they had brought in another charismatic and fun character for him, instead of someone who was as dry and serious as he was.

[estellasmum]

15 hours ago, rcc said:

Did LaSalle really ask the writers to break up his character with Corday? She could act rings around him and she had a much better acting partner with Anthony or even Romano.

So much this. Anytime Benton does his eye roll and lets out a pshh sound out of his mouth, it always takes me out of the scene because it reminds me so much of the main character in the movie Dazed and Confused, who spent so much of the movie doing the exact same thing and both actors do such a poor job of acting it. Whenever that happens, I either say (out loud or in my head) that Eriq La Salle is having another Wiley Wiggins moment.

[rcc]

I don't agree with what Eriq did. An actor's job is to act. As I said up thread the only times he acted well was with the son and with Carter going to rehab. I would add when he operated on Carter and when he operated on his nephew. Otherwise he is stiff and boring. Cleo and Benton were a bad pairing. Cleo was given ample writing to bring something to the character. The actress was just too weak.

The pairing of Corday and Green was much more interesting in the end.

[Bastet]

Good night, Irene, have there been any patients in today's two episodes?  It seems like every time I tune in, we're out of the hospital.  And can this priest hurry up and die?  Man, this season sucks.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Good night, Irene, have there been any patients in today's two episodes?  It seems like every time I tune in, we're out of the hospital.  And can this priest hurry up and die?  Man, this season sucks.

Like I said, this is why I was just fine with POP ending at S6 and circling back to S1. Those, IMO, were clearly the show's best years.

[Bastet]

Oh, I don't want them to just air six seasons of a fifteen-season show on a loop, and I'm glad they're finally airing the show in its entirety.  (I only watched the first six seasons once, then waited for them to continue -- to me, it's an enjoyable show to pass the time with, but not something I get invested in to the point of wanting to watch multiple times.)  And I'm being hyperbolic by saying this season sucks.  But it is aggravating in its changes - the increase in personal storylines (which had long been an intermittent problem for me now seems to be the norm), the anvil-like closing music montages - and I hope things smooth out a bit.

It was sad to watch Carter having to deal with the anti-vaccine mother and think all these years later doctors are still banging their heads against the wall with this bullshit.  Same with Mark's frustration with people wanting antibiotics for the flu or "just in case."  Grrr.  Science, people; it's your friend.

So far, I like what they're doing with Kerry's awkwardness in dating a woman.  When she says, "I just care about you, I'm not interested in adopting a lifestyle," I share Legaspi's "I can't believe you just said that" reaction but I also sympathize with Kerry's confusion and discomfort.  I like what they're doing - although, in the way that abandons any subtlety that might have once existed - with her becoming hyper-aware of how her colleagues speak about gay people, contributing to her fear of being open about her new relationship.

Given Mark's condition and the symptoms he was displaying, I don't understand being aghast that Kerry would want it established that he's capable of practicing emergency medicine.  All the restrictions on Carter even when he's sober, and Mark is supposed to be able to continue with no verification his mental status isn't altered so as to endanger patients?  What if he mixes up doses the way he was mixing up pronouns?  But, being Kerry, she probably went about it an insensitive way; I wasn't paying attention until I heard Corday snapping at her.

[Zoe]

I remember thinking back in the day that Greene/Corday was so random, but it does make sense watching everything together now. I just hate how it turned into tragedy after tragedy after tragedy so shortly after they hit such a high with the house and engagement. And the tragedies aren't done yet!

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

Oh, I don't want them to just air six seasons of a fifteen-season show on a loop, and I'm glad they're finally airing the show in its entirety.  (I only watched the first six seasons once, then waited for them to continue -- to me, it's an enjoyable show to pass the time with, but not something I get invested in to the point of wanting to watch multiple times.)  And I'm being hyperbolic by saying this season sucks.  But it is aggravating in its changes - the increase in personal storylines (which had long been an intermittent problem for me now seems to be the norm), the anvil-like closing music montages - and I hope things smooth out a bit.

It was sad to watch Carter having to deal with the anti-vaccine mother and think all these years later doctors are still banging their heads against the wall with this bullshit.  Same with Mark's frustration with people wanting antibiotics for the flu or "just in case."  Grrr.  Science, people; it's your friend.

So far, I like what they're doing with Kerry's awkwardness in dating a woman.  When she says, "I just care about you, I'm not interested in adopting a lifestyle," I share Legaspi's "I can't believe you just said that" reaction but I also sympathize with Kerry's confusion and discomfort.  I like what they're doing - although, in the way that abandons any subtlety that might have once existed - with her becoming hyper-aware of how her colleagues speak about gay people, contributing to her fear of being open about her new relationship.

Given Mark's condition and the symptoms he was displaying, I don't understand being aghast that Kerry would want it established that he's capable of practicing emergency medicine.  All the restrictions on Carter even when he's sober, and Mark is supposed to be able to continue with no verification his mental status isn't altered so as to endanger patients?  What if he mixes up doses the way he was mixing up pronouns?  But, being Kerry, she probably went about it an insensitive way; I wasn't paying attention until I heard Corday snapping at her.

Kerry noticed Mark's speech difficulties and then Romano came down on her about  whether Mark was competent to work; she did have legitimate concerns.  She approached Mark and suggested he needed more time off and even asked how he would handle it if he had problems  in a code. He totally dismissed her, told he wouldn't have any trouble and wasn't taking any time off.  Rather than asserting her authority and laying out a plan for assessment, she let it go and called the medical board without even warning him. 

As is so often the case, Kerry had good intentions but poor people skills. She should've spelled it out to him; if he was going to work, she needed objective proof that he was ok.

i worked with a doc with the same tumor as Mark, we had a plan in place should anyone have any concerns and part of that plan was that he would back off if any of us thought there was a problem.  It never came to that, he came to us one day and said he felt it wasn't safe anymore and that was that.  

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

Kerry noticed Mark's speech difficulties and then Romano came down on her about  whether Mark was competent to work; she did have legitimate concerns.  She approached Mark and suggested he needed more time off and even asked how he would handle it if he had problems  in a code. He totally dismissed her, told he wouldn't have any trouble and wasn't taking any time off.  Rather than asserting her authority and laying out a plan for assessment, she let it go and called the medical board without even warning him. 

So, once again, another character mishandles a situation alongside Kerry but she's the only one presented as in the wrong?  Because it was clear Mark, and my beloved Elizabeth, were never going to be honest about his capabilities, so my just-slightly-less-beloved Kerry - without giving final, okay, I am going over all our heads if you don't take this last chance to come clean, warning - jumped from point B to point Z, and the situation is on her?  Fuck that, I don't care how likable Mark is.

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, Bastet said:

So, once again, another character mishandles a situation alongside Kerry but she's the only one presented as in the wrong?  Because it was clear Mark, and my beloved Elizabeth, were never going to be honest about his capabilities, so my just-slightly-less-beloved Kerry - without giving final, okay, I am going over all our heads if you don't take this last chance to come clean, warning - jumped from point B to point Z, and the situation is on her?  Fuck that, I don't care how likable Mark is.

Oh, absolutely not.  It's Kerry's job to manage the ER and she had every right to do it.  However, she does have a history of  saying one thing to Mark and doing the opposite, and they've always had very different approaches.  Sending the medical board after him at work with no warning is a lousy way to handle the situation; the guy has a terminal illness, for goodness'  sake.  A phone call to Mark, helping arrange a private meeting with the examiner would not have been out of line.  And, yes, it would've been great if Mark had listened more carefully to her and realized what she was hinting at, but, as the boss it is ultimately her responsibility to get her point across.  She didnt, so she went behind his back, that is a pattern with her.

As for Elizabeth's reaction, she's engaged  to and pregnant by a guy who has recently undergone brain surgery for an incurable cancer.  She was not likely to be rational when faced with one more obstacle at that moment and I think Kerry realized it and that's why she let her vent.

Edited October 19, 2017 by doodlebug

[absnow54]

Honestly, I'm shocked that physical therapy and an evaluation of Mark's brain function after brain surgery and radiation wasn't mandatory.

The train crash episode was fun. I vaguely remember it from the first time it aired. Were there seriously no surgeons available in all of Chicago to perform the double amputation?

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Honestly, I'm shocked that physical therapy and an evaluation of Mark's brain function after brain surgery and radiation wasn't mandatory.

The train crash episode was fun. I vaguely remember it from the first time it aired. Were there seriously no surgeons available in all of Chicago to perform the double amputation?

Well, Carter returned to work after nearly dying there and nobody apparently bothered to have him checked out either.  It was pretty obvious he wasn't ready either mentally or physically when he came back.  County ER had some pretty lax standards it seems.

As for the trainwreck, that is one of my biggest problems with the later episodes.  Every single episode seems to have some sort of major disaster/mass casualty chaotic event and the staffing is always inadequate.  A couple episodes earlier, every single surgeon working at County decides to attend the same conference simultaneously, leaving the hospital unstaffed.  Sure, that happens all the time in real life.

[desertflower]

Spotted Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the guy who has his legs amputated in the train episode. I don't watch Walking Dead but I know he plays a bad guy on there.

I'm glad they moved on to show the later seasons but I don't know how long I can keep up the three a day schedule!

[cpcathy]

I've given up. I will check back in around the final episode, and only for Clooney and Marguiles.

[kathy42977]

There is just something so off about these season 7 episodes.

It doesn't  feel like I'm watching ER anymore. Feels more like watching a spinoff or something.

One thing I noticed about the first few seasons is how fast the hour would go by. Even the episodes that didn't have some huge crisis just drew me in.

Now they just seem to drag. 

The chemistry and the fun is gone.

And I can already see a Carter/Abby/Luka triangle coming and I'm not looking forward to it. I absolutely HATE triangles. All it means is episode after episode of two guys who could have been great friends snapping at each other. And they could have been great friends but they can't because they are "in love" with the same woman.

I would love if just once both guys could just say to hell with it and go out and have a beer or something.

[rcc]

I like that Benton covers for his bitch of a girlfriend who is always calling people out. But when she makes an error it is kept hidden. Hypocritical much. That woman was shot because of a massive mistake in diagnosis. Now the woman's daughter and that cop have to live with guilt.

[ch1]

41 minutes ago, kathy42977 said:

And I can already see a Carter/Abby/Luka triangle coming and I'm not looking forward to it. I absolutely HATE triangles. All it means is episode after episode of two guys who could have been great friends snapping at each other. And they could have been great friends but they can't because they are "in love" with the same woman.

I would love if just once both guys could just say to hell with it and go out and have a beer or something.

After the season 10 episode where Carter got a kiss from Luka for going back for him I would have shipped those two.  Talk about two guys screwed in the love department.

[Gigi43]

Watching Mark and Elizabeth's wedding. "I don't  need a spot of tea and I don't need a moment of quiet reflection on this my special day. This is America and some times you need to kick some ass!" --- Elizabeth/Alex Kingston can be so awesome at times.

 

ETA: Oh damn. I forgot about her declaration of worrying Mark won't be around.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Gigi43

[voiceover]

3 hours ago, desertflower said:

Spotted Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the guy who has his legs amputated in the train episode. I don't watch Walking Dead but I know he plays a bad guy on there.

Yay, you got a square on Guest Card Bingo!!  Morgan first came to prominence as a Shondra Rhimes pet, via Denny the Showeater on Grey's Anatomy.  He was the Abby of THAT series.  Only weirder, because half his show time came after he died, and floated around the hospital sexing up his ex (gah, I know it happened but it still reads like I'm making it up!).

Someone already mentioned this, but man I hate the pop songs that beat the thematic drum at the end of later seasons.   

On 10/17/2017 at 8:15 PM, Bastet said:

and I was definitely watching, because I remember Gamma dying -- I have just somehow managed to forget someone falling in a grave)

That's because you have a healthy self-protection device in your head!  I think mine broke when I had a stroke...

[absnow54]

Wait. But did that kid need a liver transplant or what? That storyline got dropped halfway through the episode for the clotting egg donor. 

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, voiceover said:

Morgan first came to prominence as a Shondra Rhimes pet, via Denny the Showeater on Grey's Anatomy.  He was the Abby of THAT series.  Only weirder, because half his show time came after he died, and floated around the hospital sexing up his ex (gah, I know it happened but it still reads like I'm making it up!).

Shutty.  Ghost Sex Denny was the stuff of my dreams.  Bedridden heart patient Denny was the stuff of my dreams.  Skinny leather ladies' moto jacket Walking Dead Negan is a HUUUUGE disappointment, especially on the heels of his stint on The Good Wife.  ;-)

[voiceover]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Wait. But did that kid need a liver transplant or what? That storyline got dropped halfway through the episode for the clotting egg donor. 

First season ER featured a lot of those dropped plot lines.  That's one of the things that made it special and original.  Then they reverted to "regular doctor show".

2 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Shutty.  Ghost Sex Denny was the stuff of my dreams.  Bedridden heart patient Denny was the stuff of my dreams.  

Whew.  At least I know, we're not competing over the same men?

[voiceover]

Today's ep had extended Cleo/Reece scenes, and Michele was charming.  That little boy surely brought out the best in his co-stars.

Reallyreally loved the stuff with Peter & his jr high science teacher.  Speaking as an educator: one of the downsides of the job is that you often have no idea how your students turn out.  It's scattering seeds to the wind.  So to get feedback like Peter gave him...well, it's precious.  It reminds you of why you do it.  

[Bastet]

I hate Malucci; I'm surprised Benton is the only one of his co-workers who's punched him.

I know Sally Field was something of a big get for the series, but they've had a lot of heavy hitters guest star as characters' parents without feeling the need to make them such a big part of the show.  Jeez, the episode descriptions for all three of today's episodes are about Maggie.

I, too, liked the storyline with Peter and his former teacher. 

And I also noticed that the normally wooden Cleo really came alive interacting with Reese.  (On a shallow note, Michael Michele is stunningly beautiful.)

[voiceover]

Everyone in the ER took it in turns to be asshole-ish, but Malucci was there (I'm guessing) to play the role of Every Workplace Has One.  They gave him a few scenes of redemption, ex: he was always the one to catch the exotic diagnosis.   

But he was certainly a fine example of the old joke, "What do you call someone who came in last in his class in medical school? 'Doctor'."

[Ceindreadh]

8 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Everyone in the ER took it in turns to be asshole-ish, but Malucci was there (I'm guessing) to play the role of Every Workplace Has One.  They gave him a few scenes of redemption, ex: he was always the one to catch the exotic diagnosis.   

But he was certainly a fine example of the old joke, "What do you call someone who came in last in his class in medical school? 'Doctor'."

I really liked Malucci but I was so pissed that TPTB never gave him any character development and hardly any plot lines. And don’t talk to me about the crappy way they wrote him out in S8. 

After that I hate watched the show for a few seasons, mainly so I could snark on it on the newsgroups. 

The last episode I watched was the one where Abby was having a premature baby. It was airing a few months after the USA air date so I knew how it was going to turn out. At one point, Abby is on the operating table and is told that they’re going to have to perform a hysterectomy. And she just looked so bored and disinterested, as if she’d just been told, I don’t know, that there was no milk for her coffee. 

And my first thought was that that was probably the same expression she had when she was getting knocked up in the first place. 

That’s when I figured I was better off not watching anymore. ?

[justduckey]

Watching Mark and Elizabeth’s wedding episode. Oy. One ridiculous reason to not get to his wedding after another.

 

at least these last theee episodes have mostly taken place within the confines of the er (and no sally field!)

 

Lookibg forward to seeing/remembering if season 8 is an improvement over season 7.

[doodlebug]

46 minutes ago, justduckey said:

Watching Mark and Elizabeth’s wedding episode. Oy. One ridiculous reason to not get to his wedding after another.

 

at least these last theee episodes have mostly taken place within the confines of the er (and no sally field!)

 

Lookibg forward to seeing/remembering if season 8 is an improvement over season 7.

Alas, no, Season 8 is even worse unless you want to see more of Abby.  After the positive attention and Emmy noms for the Sally Field arc, the showrunners, who realized the show's popularity had been waning, decided to go with the 'All About Abby' approach to writing.  She had multiple major story arcs as well as being thrown into the storylines of virtually every other character whether she belonged there or not. 

The show also continued it's increasing emphasis on soap opera like plots for the personal lives of all the characters.  While the early years contained a lot of personal life details, it was more mundane stuff like Mark's marital problems, Doug's father, Susan dealing with her sister (who looked shy and retiring compared to Abby's mother).  Since they'd done all the usual stuff by Season 8, they continued down the path of bigger and more over the top life events.  Now everybody is facing a terminal illness, literally crazy family members, being maimed on the job and there are multiple deaths of friends and family for virtually all of them.

There is also the horrific storyline where Chen and Malucci are thrown under the bus by Weaver after all 3 of them commit serious errors leading to the death of a patient.  It isn't the first time Kerry betrays a coworker to save herself, but it is pretty awful.

Erik Palladino was no great shakes as an actor, but Malucci had potential had they ever chosen to give him some dimension.  He obviously had some history of being abused as a kid and, if that had been explored, it could've humanized him a little.  Alas, it never happened because the show got so caught up in the endless Abby and her mother stuff and Mark's death march.  For that matter, if Ming Na hadn't gotten pregnant and the writers decided to use it, I think Chen would've been relegated to Malucciville, too.  

Finally, Season 8 contains the single worst episode of ER, ever, IMO, Secrets and Lies.  It is mainly an out of the ER episode where a bunch of the main cast have to attend a seminar on sexual harassment after they pull some juvenile pranks.  They share all sorts of personal info while waiting for the instructor and we get Susan (whose return was botched from the start) and Abby laughing like hyenas when Carter shares that he lost his virginity at age 11 to a 25 year old maid, 'cuz child molestation is just too funny.

And, yeah, the disappointing return of Susan is another lowlight.

[WendyCR72]

50 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

And, yeah, the disappointing return of Susan is another lowlight.

I blame Abby for that, too. She basically had Susan's old family drama schtick but with more sourness and misery. So the writers - who likely weren't around during Susan's first arc, made her into a shallow idiot.

Not just "Secrets and Lies" with Susan. Look how she reacted when she found out Paul Sobricki, the guy that stabbed Carter, was back at County. Yes, all patients deserve treatment, but she was made all "rah, rah, psycho guy patient!" while it was Abby that got to play sympathetic to Carter. "Old" Susan, I think, would have been much more sensitive and conflicted, etc.

Yeah, still bitter about Susan's decimation for Saint Abby. And I know that's stupid. But Susan V1.0 was a favorite character of mine, so... (At least S15 seemed to "fix" her with her brief return, IMO.)

[jjj]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:59 AM, doodlebug said:

As for the trainwreck, that is one of my biggest problems with the later episodes.  Every single episode seems to have some sort of major disaster/mass casualty chaotic event and the staffing is always inadequate.  A couple episodes earlier, every single surgeon working at County decides to attend the same conference simultaneously, leaving the hospital unstaffed.  Sure, that happens all the time in real life.

This is exactly the problem with post-Season-6 episodes:  I just made the mistake of reading the very chatty POP summaries of upcoming episodes on the schedule, and golly, every episode looks like the turgid plot of a Lifetime movie.  And unlike the earlier seasons, the disasters are afflicting the staff, not the patients (whose disasters were eloquently depicted in snippets, not overwritten full plot lines) -- but now the staff problems are:  infant overdose, battered-wife neighbor (favorite Lifetime plot), splitting parental unit causing strife in staffer's life, mortal illness, custody battle, etc. 

Edited October 21, 2017 by jjj

[jjj]

Oh, I tuned in on Saturday to watch the Corday-Greene wedding, which I had never seen.  And still have not seen it, since the episode ended with "Dearly beloved... [fade to black]"  What an awful episode, not even amusing, except when Romano manages to choke out:  "Elizabeth...........you're............beautiful".   But the Peter/Mark incidents were just painful to watch.   I could not believe we did not even get to see their vows.  

[justduckey]

You know things are bad when you’re happy to see Carla.

[Bastet]

I don't care that we didn't see the ceremony; it's a wedding - sickness, health, death, part, I do, you do, blah blah blah.  It's what you sit through to get to the reception, so TV ceremonies are usually very brief unless someone's going to object, leave their partner at the altar, etc.  So it's fine with me they decided to do a "get me to the church on time" storyline, but it wasn't a very good one.  I liked Kerry telling the nurse calling in sick (Connie, I think), "If you're in any of the wedding pictures, you're fired."  And the moment between Romano and Corday - or Robert and Lizzie - was very nice.  But Mark's parts of the episode sucked.  Also, at least Cleo came to her senses, but getting pissy about going to the wedding because Peter and Elizabeth used to date was so petty and dumb.  I love that Peter didn't abide it, just said, "Oh, come on."

[voiceover]

I love that Elizabeth's father showed.  That actor is Teh Hot.

Weddings always work as movie plots, because film is conflict, and wedding days are full of 'em.

Edited October 22, 2017 by voiceover
waaaay too personal

[Danny Franks]

On 19/10/2017 at 10:45 PM, ch1 said:

After the season 10 episode where Carter got a kiss from Luka for going back for him I would have shipped those two.  Talk about two guys screwed in the love department.

They could have been a really nice bromance, in the vein of Mark and Doug, if the writers hadn't insisted on putting Saint Abigail so firmly between them.

It was desperate as a storyline. Luka wasn't that invested in Abby, but Carter was so obviously thirsty for her that everyone knew, including both Luka and Abby. This is where the show really began to lose me, because for the life of me I couldn't understand what either of them saw in her. She was terrible. A crappy girlfriend to Luka, and an even worse one to Carter. Everything was always about her. Everything.

It felt a lot like the writers just took the original character archetypes and doubled down on them. So Luka was an even more troubled, gloomy Doug, and Abby was an even more self righteous, self obsessed Carol. And eventually, Carter became as boring as Mark. So I guess it all worked out neatly.

[rcc]

13 hours ago, jjj said:

Oh, I tuned in on Saturday to watch the Corday-Greene wedding, which I had never seen.  And still have not seen it, since the episode ended with "Dearly beloved... [fade to black]"  What an awful episode, not even amusing, except when Romano manages to choke out:  "Elizabeth...........you're............beautiful".   But the Peter/Mark incidents were just painful to watch.   I could not believe we did not even get to see their vows.  

Romano is a bad little man but I do enjoy his sarcastic lines on this show. Obviously he is in love or at least has a crush on his Lizzy and that scene was my favorite of the episode. "Elizabeth you're beautiful" with that wistful stare afterward was a nice touch.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, Bastet said:

I don't care that we didn't see the ceremony; it's a wedding - sickness, health, death, part, I do, you do, blah blah blah.  It's what you sit through to get to the reception, so TV ceremonies are usually very brief unless someone's going to object, leave their partner at the altar, etc.  So it's fine with me they decided to do a "get me to the church on time" storyline, but it wasn't a very good one.  I liked Kerry telling the nurse calling in sick (Connie, I think), "If you're in any of the wedding pictures, you're fired."  And the moment between Romano and Corday - or Robert and Lizzie - was very nice.  But Mark's parts of the episode sucked.  Also, at least Cleo came to her senses, but getting pissy about going to the wedding because Peter and Elizabeth used to date was so petty and dumb.  I love that Peter didn't abide it, just said, "Oh, come on."

so agree with this. The Mark running around part was bleh but the episode had other moments--the ones you mention plus the one I was waiting for: I always loved it when Romano walks in; Carter and whoever else is there look at him and he responds with "what, you didn't think I'd get invited?" He was such a jerk but had the best lines and kudos to the actor who always delivered them perfectly.

I had totally forgotten about Carter dating a 19 year old. 

[rcc]

The commercials for the show Hot Date are the most asinine clips I've ever seen. I wish they would stop with the clips because watching ER has nothing to do with watching such a stupid show. 

[Bastet]

Season eight is about to start - yay, because at least that means we get to see Carter's parents.  I love Mary McDonnell.

Time got away from me and I forgot to turn the TV on until now.  I wanted to see this one again, because I remember Greene killing a patient, and wanted to watch the circumstances in their entirety again to see if there's any way in which that's not horrible.

[voiceover]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

 I wanted to see this one again, because I remember Greene killing a patient, and wanted to watch the circumstances in their entirety again to see if there's any way in which that's not horrible.

You had to duck in this ep to avoid the flying sanctimony.  Talk about laying it on with a trowel!  Like M*A*S*H after Radar left.

And the ep after is the same in that respect.  I may skip viewing and just come here for the recaps.

eta: Except when Khandi Alexander is on, because she's so freaking awesome.  If only Jackie had gotten a new job in hospital admin, or something.

eta2: So Kerry's reasoning behind putting Carter off for attending is that they're "looking for 5 years post-res".  Hmmmmm...IIRC, Greene & Weaver went from Chief Res to Attending.

Excepting Hathaway, post- MCATS, I'm hard-pressed to recall a time when Kerry encouraged *any* colleague up the ladder.  Way to live up to THAT stereotype, Kerry.

Edited October 23, 2017 by voiceover

[voiceover]

Shit.  Am I the only one watching?  I need help here -- Benton's telling Reese that Carla died, and I'm bawling my eyes out.

Fuck you, show.  Just as I'm about to leave, Vondie Curtis-Hall is recurring as recast Roger. *sulks*

Edited October 23, 2017 by voiceover
Because I always forget, "s" not "c"

[Bastet]

Ah, the infamous Malucci, Chen, and Weaver all screw up, and Weaver covers her ass storyline, I presume. 

Abby and Luka's argument was cracking me up in the beginning, because they sounded like every couple ever.  "What, now you're mad?" 

And, yeah, it got a little dusty in here when Peter was trying to explain to Reese that Carla died.