All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Cloud9Shopper]

I think it was on here (many many pages ago) that I read that Goran didn’t want to say that line and thought it was out of character for Luka, and Maura agreed, but the writers wouldn’t back down on it. For as much as I don’t like Abby even she deserved better than someone who would say something so hurtful to her. I mean, if a guy told me that, I would cut him loose. Permanently.

I never warmed to Chen but didn’t dislike her either. She was quitting and coming back too much for me to care about her either way, and I can’t say I missed her when she left for good. I also remember thinking that she was pretty arrogant and stuck on herself when she showed up to demand her job back in S8. (And who knew that Romano’s remark about The View would be so accurate 20 years later?)

 

[Rootbeer]

4 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think it was on here (many many pages ago) that I read that Goran didn’t want to say that line and thought it was out of character for Luka, and Maura agreed, but the writers wouldn’t back down on it. For as much as I don’t like Abby even she deserved better than someone who would say something so hurtful to her. I mean, if a guy told me that, I would cut him loose. Permanently.

 

Yep, around the time the episode aired, both Goran and Maura said that the line didn't feel right for the character and they both wanted it removed but TPTB insisted.

[txhorns79]

26 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

(And who knew that Romano’s remark about The View would be so accurate 20 years later?)

There are many issues on the show that are still surprising relevant in 2022.  For example, in Season 7, they dealt with a child who got measles and died because her parents purposefully declined to have her vaccinated based in part on internet research.   

28 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I never warmed to Chen but didn’t dislike her either. She was quitting and coming back too much for me to care about her either way, and I can’t say I missed her when she left for good. I also remember thinking that she was pretty arrogant and stuck on herself when she showed up to demand her job back in S8. (And who knew that Romano’s remark about The View would be so accurate 20 years later?)

It felt very much like the writers really had no idea what to do with her. 

I also felt like Carter learned almost nothing from his drug addiction in Season 6.  He chafed at the restrictions put on him by Kerry and Mark when he returned.  He acted put out by his punishment, and seemed taken aback when he was told that his record was such that he would not be considered for Chief Resident.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm in Season 8, and they've just started the custody battle for Reese.  In most states, I think the rule still is, if you are the father listed on the birth certificate, for all legal purposes you are the child's father, regardless of whether it is found out later, the child is not biologically your own.  

You may be thinking of the marital presumption instead - where a child born into a marriage is presumed to be the husband's, and after a certain time (e.g. two years) passes, that can never be undone even if it's later found to be untrue.  The legal establishment of paternity via signing a birth certificate is easier to overcome if it's later determined to be untrue.

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I never warmed to Chen but didn’t dislike her either. She was quitting and coming back too much for me to care about her either way, and I can’t say I missed her when she left for good. I also remember thinking that she was pretty arrogant and stuck on herself when she showed up to demand her job back in S8.

Amen; she acted like she'd done nothing wrong, that it was all Kerry. 

And I felt sorry for her, roaming the ER trying to get someone to cover her shift so she could take care of her dad, but she'd up and quit so many times I couldn't bring myself to care when she did it again.

Jeanie was a terrible quitter, too; she just stopped coming to work.

[txhorns79]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

Jeanie was a terrible quitter, too; she just stopped coming to work.

Did Gloria Reuben just want to quit?  Her exit from the show felt rushed, like they didn't know she was leaving until the last minute.

 

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

You may be thinking of the marital presumption instead - where a child born into a marriage is presumed to be the husband's, and after a certain time (e.g. two years) passes, that can never be undone even if it's later found to be untrue.  The legal establishment of paternity via signing a birth certificate is easier to overcome if it's later determined to be untrue.

You are completely right!  My mistake.

[Rootbeer]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Did Gloria Reuben just want to quit?  Her exit from the show felt rushed, like they didn't know she was leaving until the last minute.

 

You are completely right!  My mistake.

Gloria Reuben wanted to leave, partly because Jeannie wasn't getting much storyline and mainly because she wanted to pursue a career in music.  She left to go on tour singing backup for Tina Turner.  Who wouldn't?

Edited February 15, 2022 by Rootbeer

[txhorns79]

I find it so interesting how this show handles certain storylines.  The same show that pretty sensitively writes a storyline for Weaver where she comes out, often has other characters say things that are casually homophobic without comment.  (And not just Romano, who was both sexist and homophobic, but also a fairly well rounded, complicated character.)  I realize some of it was just the time period the show was written in, but I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the writer's room.  

[Racj82]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I find it so interesting how this show handles certain storylines.  The same show that pretty sensitively writes a storyline for Weaver where she comes out, often has other characters say things that are casually homophobic without comment.  (And not just Romano, who was both sexist and homophobic, but also a fairly well rounded, complicated character.)  I realize some of it was just the time period the show was written in, but I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the writer's room.  

A lot of it is the time. Also some of if is deliberate based on the character.

I just finished rewatching the episode where Mark goes back to parents when his mother hurts herself.

For whatever reason, this episode made me cry ugly tears this time around. I thinks it partially just the acting which is top notch. Mark slowly breaking when he realizes he's lost the mother he knew his whole life hurts so bad.

Part of it is just knowing that Mark is going to lose both of his parents and his own life in a matter of a few years. He is talking about still wanting a family again in this episode. It hits hard.

Following it up with Carter taking charge of the ER with Kerry out of commission and Mark gone may be the best one two punch the show has ever did. Carter and Mark coming back together at the end is just the cherry on top. The heart of the ER present and future together.

We also get rid of Cynthia here. Kick all the rocks.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I didn’t care for Family Practice but Exodus is one of my all time favorite episodes. I have seen a couple of other medical dramas try the chemical spill plot (Chicago Med and New Amsterdam for the curious), and it has never worked as well as Exodus did even almost 25 years later. Kind of amazing for a show to have that much staying power 

I was glad to be rid of Cynthia. I love Mariska Hargitay/Olivia Benson but damn. The Cynthia character and her weird relationship with Mark was such an awkward storyline. (Random note, I watched an SVU episode last month where Mariska and Donal Logue shared screen time and I went hey it’s Cynthia and Chuck! Anthony Edwards also worked with Mariska on SVU a few years back!)

[CrazyInAlabama]

4 hours ago, Racj82 said:

For whatever reason, this episode made me cry ugly tears this time around. I thinks it partially just the acting which is top notch. Mark slowly breaking when he realizes he's lost the mother he knew his whole life hurts so bad.

Part of it is just knowing that Mark is going to lose both of his parents and his own life in a matter of a few years. He is talking about still wanting a family again in this episode. It hits hard.

I was also surprised at Mark's mother admiting to him that she never wanted children, and only married Mark's dad because she was pregnant.    Mark finding out his dad torpedoed his career to be home for Mark was touching too.    

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I was also surprised at Mark's mother admiting to him that she never wanted children, and only married Mark's dad because she was pregnant.    Mark finding out his dad torpedoed his career to be home for Mark was touching too.    

It was a really great storyline because it is so relatable.  How many of us grow up thinking one way about our parents only to discover, as we both age, that our parents were not exactly as we pictured?  That Mark's perception of his mother and father and their experiences in relation to him was completely turned on its head was something so many of us have discovered, too.  Some of us never get to know our parents as people and, when it does happen, it is a gift.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

It was a really great storyline because it is so relatable.  How many of us grow up thinking one way about our parents only to discover, as we both age, that our parents were not exactly as we pictured?  That Mark's perception of his mother and father and their experiences in relation to him was completely turned on its head was something so many of us have discovered, too.  Some of us never get to know our parents as people and, when it does happen, it is a gift.

I loved those episodes and his travels with Doug. Away from ER not always a plus but these were.

[txhorns79]

Eric falling into Gamma's open grave.  There really was no coming back from that for Abby and Carter.  I will say that I did feel bad for Abby sometimes, particularly at that moment.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Eric falling into Gamma's open grave.  There really was no coming back from that for Abby and Carter.  I will say that I did feel bad for Abby sometimes, particularly at that moment.  

I knew that scene was coming when I first watching S9 (didn’t care about spoilers since I was watching on Hulu in the late 2010s) and all I could do was facepalm. I cheered when Carter told her to GTFO and I hate that in some spaces he’s been made the bad guy for being upset that Abby’s family antics ruined his Gamma’s funeral. 

I honestly have a hard time feeling bad for the character of Abby when she makes consistently selfish choices like this and never has to take the blame when in reality, 95% of her misery on the show is her fault. The worship of the character is still over the top in 2022 just as much as it was since we discussed the show on TWOP. Nothing is ever her fault. She always does the right thing and never makes a mistake. She has a great heart and is a wonderful friend, girlfriend and wife depending what stage of the show we’re at. (I’m not saying you specifically worship her or anything; it’s just a general trend that never seemed to go away.) For me, this was just another incident that was brushed away as something that wasn’t Abby’s fault and Carter should just deal with the fact that his Gamma’s funeral was turned into a circus. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[Hiyo]

Quote

The worship of the character is still over the top in 2022 just as much as it was since we discussed the show on TWOP

Some people like her without this OTT worship you speak of, and also find her an interesting character regardless.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I hate that in some spaces he’s been made the bad guy for being upset that Abby’s family antics ruined his Gamma’s funeral. 

I don't think he was a bad guy.  I think neither was in a place to really give the other what they wanted.  Realistically, I'm sure some part of Carter understood that Abby couldn't just put off going to get Eric because there was a high risk he would vanish again, and I doubt she would ever forgive herself (or Carter) if something happened to Eric.  I'm sure there was also some part of Abby that understood that prioritizing Eric over Carter at a time when Carter really needed her could be a death knell for their relationship.

 

[Racj82]

For Carter and Abby, in my opinion, it was just wrong time. Neither one of them were the villains. But, Neither of them were equipped to deal with a relationship with everything else going on in their lives. Especially Abby. Carter lost the only familial bond he had left while Abby was trying to save hers. They both needed something the other couldn't give.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I rewatched Jeanie’s return in S14 (one of three S14 episodes I can actually rewatch) last night and it really bums me out that the writers chose to make her unhappy. Separated from Reggie and kid has AIDS. I get by that point almost nobody in the main cast seemed happy, but it feels like too much still. I did, however, enjoy her interactions with Haleh and how she eventually warmed to Pratt.

I still cannot stand Neela’s prodigy intern Harold. Such an unnecessary character. I wonder how she didn’t punch him.

Even though I don’t mind that episode, it was so obvious how the quality and writing had declined as a whole by that point. The show was really a shell of itself and it didn’t feel cohesive.

It was nice to go back to S4 after that and watch the episode where Mark throws the ER banquet that turns out to be a mess with the cold food and the one-man band. Of course there were some down moments with Jeanie and Anspaugh’s son and Morgenstern struggling in surgery, but I always appreciated that the drama of that era felt appropriate and not like some OTT circus act or determination to make everyone miserable. 

[LizDC]

Mark Greene married Amanda Lee - Anthony Edwards and Mare Winningham Quietly Eloped Last Year: 'We're Too Old to Throw Weddings'

[WendyCR72]

49 minutes ago, LizDC said:

Mark Greene married Amanda Lee - Anthony Edwards and Mare Winningham Quietly Eloped Last Year: 'We're Too Old to Throw Weddings'

Okay, this I never expected! Congrats to them!

[Dr.OO7]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Okay, this I never expected! Congrats to them!

Looks like her stalking and obsession paid off.

I had no idea they'd been friends for years even before she guest starred on ER.

[RedbirdNelly]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:05 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

Looks like her stalking and obsession paid off.

I had no idea they'd been friends for years even before she guest starred on ER.

I'm so surprised and it's kind of awesome. I guess I'll never watch those reruns the same :)

[Cloud9Shopper]

9 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I'm so surprised and it's kind of awesome. I guess I'll never watch those reruns the same :)

Don’t forget in S7 where Mark suggests to Elizabeth that they should name the baby Amanda. 😆 

[Rootbeer]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:08 AM, txhorns79 said:

I don't think he was a bad guy.  I think neither was in a place to really give the other what they wanted.  Realistically, I'm sure some part of Carter understood that Abby couldn't just put off going to get Eric because there was a high risk he would vanish again, and I doubt she would ever forgive herself (or Carter) if something happened to Eric.  I'm sure there was also some part of Abby that understood that prioritizing Eric over Carter at a time when Carter really needed her could be a death knell for their relationship.

 

Considering what had happened the last time Abby traveled cross country to 'rescue' a family member, Carter wasn't wrong to wonder if there wasn't a better option.  And there were a lot of options that Abby could've chosen, but, as always, she decided that she knew best and that no one else in the entire world could possibly help despite the fact that virtually every time Abby tried to rescue her mother or brother, it was an unmitigated disaster.  Talk about not learning from past mistakes.

There was also Abby's seeming indifference to the death of Carter's Gamma in that moment, it seemed she really expected him to drop everything and go with her-and, of course, pay for it all, too.  Then, standing there with her greedy paw out, waiting for him to write prescriptions for her brother even though she would have known that it is not legal for a practitioner to prescribe medication for a patient that he hasn't examined and considering her own track record with family members OD'ing on her watch.

Just saw the story about Anthony Edwards and Mare Winningham and you could've knocked me over with a feather.  The story I read didn't even mention MW's stint on ER as Amanda Lee, creepy stalker of AE's Mark which is really too bad, It's kind of a great story.  Good for them.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Rootbeer

[txhorns79]

Season 11.  Carter becomes completely insufferable.  I was just watching the episode where it appears an expensive new seizure medication may have destroyed a girl's transplanted kidney.  The dad of this girl becomes deeply upset because he had to take a second job, etc. to pay for the drug and kills himself in the ambulance bay so his daughter can have his one remaining kidney.  At the end of the episode, reporters are gathered in the ambulance bay and Carter speaks to them.  He violates the girl's privacy by identifying her, and blaming the medication she took for this whole situation.  In the next episode when Susan points out that Carter's stunt could potentially cost the hospital a lot of money, and has sent her scrambling for other sources of funding, he gives her a punchable smirk and walks off.  She then apologizes to him (!) later in the episode for her attitude.  It's all very frustrating.   

[Heathen]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:15 AM, txhorns79 said:

Season 11.  Carter becomes completely insufferable.  I was just watching the episode where it appears an expensive new seizure medication may have destroyed a girl's transplanted kidney.  The dad of this girl becomes deeply upset because he had to take a second job, etc. to pay for the drug and kills himself in the ambulance bay so his daughter can have his one remaining kidney.  At the end of the episode, reporters are gathered in the ambulance bay and Carter speaks to them.  He violates the girl's privacy by identifying her, and blaming the medication she took for this whole situation.  In the next episode when Susan points out that Carter's stunt could potentially cost the hospital a lot of money, and has sent her scrambling for other sources of funding, he gives her a punchable smirk and walks off.  She then apologizes to him (!) later in the episode for her attitude.  It's all very frustrating.   

I agree that Carter acted inappropriately (and turned into a real putz after his son was stillborn, or actually after his first trip to Africa), but otherwise, I agree with Carter on the kidney-killing-seizure-disorder-drug angle. That girl's neurologist was a spineless, money-grubbing fool. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Wasn’t this the storyline where the neurologist was Henry, Carter’s former med student from back in S4? It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the episode but I remember thinking “out of all the characters they brought back…” 

[txhorns79]

13 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Wasn’t this the storyline where the neurologist was Henry, Carter’s former med student from back in S4? It’s been awhile since I’ve seen the episode but I remember thinking “out of all the characters they brought back…” 

It was.  I didn't really understand why they chose that character to bring back.  He wasn't particularly interesting in his first run, and he didn't add much this time either. 

 

46 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I agree that Carter acted inappropriately (and turned into a real putz after his son was stillborn, or actually after his first trip to Africa),

There were times when he was very punchable.  As an aside, the casting of Michael Gross as his dad was perfection.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

28 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It was.  I didn't really understand why they chose that character to bring back.  He wasn't particularly interesting in his first run, and he didn't add much this time either. 

 

It was S11; that’s probably why LOL. The show was really in decline at that point. I wish they had just ended it when Carter left. When I go through my next rewatch I’ll probably just go to S15 after his last episode as a regular. 

[ShortyMac]

Every time they bring up Carter losing his virginity at 11 in “Secrets and Lies”... Laughing and joking about statutory rape. If that was a patient brought into the ER, they would handle the situation differently.  

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, ShortyMac said:

Every time they bring up Carter losing his virginity at 11 in “Secrets and Lies”... Laughing and joking about statutory rape. If that was a patient brought into the ER, they would handle the situation differently.  

Heck, Sam says she was 14 or 15 dating a 23 year old when she got pregnant with Alex.  I don't think anyone really comments on how messed up that particular relationship would have been at the time.  Obviously Steve proves himself to be a much, much worse person, but that was a "wow" moment for me.   

[ShortyMac]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Heck, Sam says she was 14 or 15 dating a 23 year old when she got pregnant with Alex.  I don't think anyone really comments on how messed up that particular relationship would have been at the time.  Obviously Steve proves himself to be a much, much worse person, but that was a "wow" moment for me.   

Right, I forgot about this, too. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

Every time they bring up Carter losing his virginity at 11 in “Secrets and Lies”... Laughing and joking about statutory rape. If that was a patient brought into the ER, they would handle the situation differently.  

I was surprised when I started engaging in fandom spaces a couple years ago and read that people love this episode. To each their own of course but I remember wayyy back in the day how so many of us hated it. I still wasn’t impressed with it when I did my S8 rewatch a couple years back either. I remember thinking the whole gang was immature to even be acting like that at work to begin with, and then they caught Gallant up in their idiocy. Kerry was right to call them all to the carpet on it. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[ShortyMac]

45 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I was surprised when I started engaging in fandom spaces a couple years ago and read that people love this episode. To each their own of course but I remember wayyy back in the day how so many of us hated it. I still wasn’t impressed with it when I did my S8 rewatch a couple years back either. I remember thinking the whole gang was immature to even be acting like that at work to begin with, and then they caught Gallant up in their idiocy. Kerry was right to call them all to the carpet on it. 

Carter and Luka fencing and hurting each other. So dumb. It’s not a good episode, all of them acting like high schoolers. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

The show was really in decline at that point.

The show's decline started in season 6.

[debraran]

I think some long running shows in the past showed wear, some like MASH did pretty well with cast changes, Law n Order, etc. but ER really sunk fast. I knew they were trying different things, but the soap  opera sleeping around was not what ER was about at its core, the dumb adolescent behavior, the unbelievable plots, the disrespect they showed actors like Paul Crane, I was shocked. When you see it all together, you really notice it but then they'd throw these gems in every once in a while or an oldie but goodie old cast member will be back and it makes you smile. Now on streaming you can pick and chose what to watch but I wont let the bombs degrade the earlier gold and still mourn they just gave up on it.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I think some long running shows in the past showed wear, some like MASH did pretty well with cast changes, Law n Order, etc. but ER really sunk fast. I knew they were trying different things, but the soap  opera sleeping around was not what ER was about at its core, the dumb adolescent behavior, the unbelievable plots, the disrespect they showed actors like Paul Crane, I was shocked. When you see it all together, you really notice it but then they'd throw these gems in every once in a while or an oldie but goodie old cast member will be back and it makes you smile. Now on streaming you can pick and chose what to watch but I wont let the bombs degrade the earlier gold and still mourn they just gave up on it.

Agree. I don’t expect any fictional show to be 100% realistic (that’s why we have documentaries) but in the earlier seasons it seemed like they at least tried a little harder to balance the drama so it seemed believable and the staff stayed professional. Hospitals generally aren’t dealing with shootouts and explosions on a regular basis. I think there’s a point where the unrealism is too much.

I also think putting a character like Abby as the new lead and forgoing the ensemble concept of the earlier years to give her every major storyline was a huge mistake. Who wants to watch someone so miserable and selfish/ungrateful all the time? And I never thought Maura Tierney, to quote Luka, was “that pretty or that special.” She’s just bland and unattractive. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[txhorns79]

I thought a big problem was the loss of the adult-seeming characters in the later seasons.  Mark, Benton, Corday and Susan all had a certain gravitas.  You could see them in leadership positions in the ER, in a way that Morris, Pratt, Neela, Ray, etc. were never really able to match.  I think they really only got that back in the last season when Angela Bassett came in as Banfield.  Even if you didn't love her character, she exudes gravitas.    

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought a big problem was the loss of the adult-seeming characters in the later seasons.  Mark, Benton, Corday and Susan all had a certain gravitas.  You could see them in leadership positions in the ER, in a way that Morris, Pratt, Neela, Ray, etc. were never really able to match.  I think they really only got that back in the last season when Angela Bassett came in as Banfield.  Even if you didn't love her character, she exudes gravitas.    

I never thought about it this way before, and I do agree with it. The original characters were people who may have had personal life hurdles but were (for the most part) able to be professional and good role models. It seemed like the second generation cast was more interested in petty personal drama and being “snarky” than they were in doing their jobs. There was a lot more navel gazing and childish stuff that would make most of them unemployable (or at least unbearable coworkers) in real life. 

[ch1]

12 hours ago, Hiyo said:

The show's decline started in season 6.

I think season 7 is when the show really went downhill.  In the seasons I watched (up until 12) I think it’s the worst.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, ch1 said:

I think season 7 is when the show really went downhill.  In the seasons I watched (up until 12) I think it’s the worst.

And S7 was when the set/lighting changed AND when the triangle from hell, Carter/Abby/Luka, started. Coincidence? I think not!

[Cloud9Shopper]

I remember enjoying S7 and 8 and then feeling like the vibe was “off” in S9 and starting to feel less interested. By S14 I was like “get me out of here; when does the old cast come back?” 😂 S12 when Clemente shows up and they do the nonsense with the chimp really was about when the end started for me. 

 

[txhorns79]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:31 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

S12 when Clemente shows up and they do the nonsense with the chimp really was about when the end started for me. 

I forgot that he seems off and manic almost from the beginning.  I really have trouble believing he would have been hired by Weaver.  He seems way too unstable.

I also wish Susan had gotten a better send off.  She's there in the first episode of the season and then just gone with them saying she moved to Iowa for a new job.  I know it was her second time leaving, but I always really liked her character.  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/2/2022 at 9:17 AM, txhorns79 said:

.  You could see them in leadership positions in the ER, in a way that Morris, Pratt, Neela, Ray, etc. were never really able to match.     

Ugh Neela. Her whole career crisis storyline was probably one of the top 5 dumbest character storylines the show did. Like ok she didn't want to be a doctor after finishing med school, that could have been interesting. But why were here only other options entry level retail? She would have had multiple degrees and a background in science. That seems like something a lot of different places, not just hospitals would be interested in. And then she looks for one day, gives up and takes a job at.the convenience store. And then she gets the intern job because some other guy quit and they never even resolve the fact that she doesn't like being a doctor. Plus they never even talk about the fact that being from the UK, I would assume she would have immigration/visa issues tied to her job.

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I forgot that he seems off and manic almost from the beginning.  I really have trouble believing he would have been hired by Weaver.  He seems way too unstable.

On my rewatch last year it was interesting seeing Clemente's behavior from a more modern standpoint. He seemed to have some kind of psychotic break or mental illness episode. But they fired him and then the board acted like it was Kerry's fault because she hired someone who was just an asshole. But thinking of how there is a lot more push to talk about and recognize mental health issues I wonder if it would be seen the same way today. Punishing Kerry for hiring someone with mental health issues seems like punishing her because Mark had a brain tumour.

[Rootbeer]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Ugh Neela. Her whole career crisis storyline was probably one of the top 5 dumbest character storylines the show did. Like ok she didn't want to be a doctor after finishing med school, that could have been interesting. But why were here only other options entry level retail? She would have had multiple degrees and a background in science. That seems like something a lot of different places, not just hospitals would be interested in. And then she looks for one day, gives up and takes a job at.the convenience store. And then she gets the intern job because some other guy quit and they never even resolve the fact that she doesn't like being a doctor. Plus they never even talk about the fact that being from the UK, I would assume she would have immigration/visa issues tied to her job.

In real life, it would be very difficult for a graduate of a British medical school to get a US residency both because the training systems are so different and also because most residencies want to train people who are staying in the US, so she'd have to be a citizen or have a green card.  Sometimes specialized fellowship programs will take a foreign doc and allow them in the program, but most basic residencies, such as emergency medicine, would not even look at non US resident candidates.

Elizabeth, of course, came from Britain and was supposed to be doing some sort of specialized surgical training.  When Romano took it away, she ended up doing an internship in surgery to practice in the US.  In real life, the US doesn't recognize British residencies and she would've had to repeat an entire 5 year US general surgical residency before she would be able to practice in the US.  The only country where residencies are recognized in the US and docs trained there can come here and practice is Canada.  Every other graduate of a foreign medical school has to do a complete US or Canada residency before practicing.  This is mainly because the systems of medical training are so different in other countries.

[Kel Varnsen]

13 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

In real life, it would be very difficult for a graduate of a British medical school to get a US residency both because the training systems are so different and also because most residencies want to train people who are staying in the US, so she'd have to be a citizen or have a green card.

But Neela did her medical school in the US didn't she? Not sure if that is any more likely but she was in the same class as Abby. Do they give student visas for people in medical school?

Edited March 4, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[ShortyMac]

7 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But Neela did her medical school in the US didn't she? Not sure if that is any more likely but she was in the same class as Abby. Do they give student visas for people in medical school?

Yes, I believe she went to Yale.

[Rootbeer]

19 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But Neela did her medical school in the US didn't she? Not sure if that is any more likely but she was in the same class as Abby. Do they give student visas for people in medical school?

I  think so, she also said she did her undergrad at Yale.  However, medical school do not generally give student visas.  There are more than enough actual Americans who want to attend and, since medical schools are usually heavily subsidized by the government, they wouldn't risk their funding to make an exception.  I am sure Neela could've gotten a student VISA for undergrad, although, presuming she was from Great Britain which has plenty of excellent schools, I don't know why she'd have done that rather than go to Oxford or Cambridge or some other excellent school.  

On the show, we never heard the name of the med school, but it seemed likely it was Northwestern.  Looking at the current composition of the classes there; there are no foreign students, all are residents of the US or Puerto Rico; so I don't think she could've gone there unless she was a US citizen or permanent resident.

Looking it up, it appears that only about half of US medical schools will accept non US citizens.  There are over 21,000 people entering American medical schools each fall and, as of 2019, only 272 of them were non-US citizens.  So, very unlikely that Neela could've gone to med school in the US without being a citizen.

ETA: Neela attended medical school with Abby, which was seemingly Northwestern, Yale was her undergrad school.  She and Abby were both in medical school when they did the NICU rotation and Kerry wanted Abby to do an LP on her sick newborn because she was just that wonderful.  And the NICU doc told her she was the most amazing student ever and offered her a place in the residency if she wanted it.  Which never happens in real life, BTW.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

I  think so, she also said she did her undergrad at Yale.  However, medical school do not generally give student visas.  There are more than enough actual Americans who want to attend and, since medical schools are usually heavily subsidized by the government, they wouldn't risk their funding to make an exception. 

So Neela had a bachelor's degree in something like biology or chemistry in what TV has taught me is one of the best schools in the US and she still couldn't find a job that wasn't entry level retail? Isn't the whole point of going to one of those fancy Ivy league schools that you make crazy good connections? And the annoying thing is that Neela working at a job that lined up with her qualifications and payed her bills but that she didn't like would actually have been a decent story.

Also I am actually kind of surprised there is that much available data out there about who is in medical school/residency.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[Rootbeer]

49 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

.

Also I am actually kind of surprised there is that much available data out there about who is in medical school/residency.

Most med schools publish demographic profiles of their classes each year.  Most residencies do, too.  In this age of diversity and inclusion, they have to publicize their data.

I found out a lot of the international student stuff on a site that gives advice to non-citizens who want to attend school in the US and they had stats on the number of med students nationally and how many were not US citizens.

Here's Northwestern's breakdown of their current incoming class:

https://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/about/class-profile.html

The AAMC (American Association of Medical Colleges) has a very detailed website for those looking to apply to a US medical school including information for non US residents:

https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/applying-medical-school-international-applicant

There is the story there of a young man from Tanzania who is now enrolled in a US medical school and how and why he got there.  Most notable is that he is clearly an exceptionally intelligent and motivated human being who has done research with top public health organizations.  He attended undergrad and got a Master's of Public Health from Yale and now is in med school at Harvard.  In other words, he is a very special student.

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Rootbeer