All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Cloud9Shopper]

How the Finch Stole Christmas (S6) is my favorite Christmas episode, but I also like Blizzard. It has been a very long time since I’ve seen The Gift (probably a few years) so I’ll have to go back to that one.

And it wasn’t the official Christmas episode in S15 but I loved Let it Snow. Banfield taking over the microphone and working the room while Morris looked on stunned was hilarious. Made me think of the magic of the early says. 

[ShortyMac]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

How the Finch Stole Christmas (S6) is my favorite Christmas episode, but I also like Blizzard. It has been a very long time since I’ve seen The Gift (probably a few years) so I’ll have to go back to that one.

And it wasn’t the official Christmas episode in S15 but I loved Let it Snow. Banfield taking over the microphone and working the room while Morris looked on stunned was hilarious. Made me think of the magic of the early says. 

Agreed to all of this.

[WendyCR72]

"Blizzard" is my favorite ER Christmas episode. And, yes, I loved "The Gift" (which aired right before or after "Blizzard") from S1, too. I remember "The Gift" because that was when Baby Carter tried kissing Susan Lewis after giving her a Secret Santa gift.

If I recall, it was a music box or something.

[Rootbeer]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Blizzard" is my favorite ER Christmas episode. And, yes, I loved "The Gift" (which aired right before or after "Blizzard") from S1, too. I remember "The Gift" because that was when Baby Carter tried kissing Susan Lewis after giving her a Secret Santa gift.

If I recall, it was a music box or something.

Yep, it was a music box.  Later, Susan gives Carter the present she'd gotten for Div before he disappeared: a silk robe.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Luby is a popular relationship today with Tumblr fangirls who melt down if you say you don’t like the ship or suggest it’s not the most romantic relationship on the show.

Generalizations like that are simply not true.

[Dr.OO7]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:41 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I’ve also since really come to dislike pregnancy storylines when the actress isn’t pregnant in real life. It seems contrived

Even when the actress IS pregnant in real life, it can be contrived. There's no law saying that it has to be written in. Her character's circumstances are often less than ideal, making it utterly nonsensical that she and the writers decide to have her go ahead with the pregnancy.

 

On 12/16/2021 at 8:25 PM, Rootbeer said:

This was a problem entirely of her own making and she needed to shut up because the pregnancy and the decision not to leave with Doug were her choices, no one else'.

Yes. I loved Carol, but she epitomized the Unintentionally Unsympathetic trope for me during that storyline. I was so glad for the fanfic where Doug actually told her off about it--she could have gone with him/joined him/let him come back at any time, but chose not to.

On 12/21/2021 at 8:34 PM, alex899 said:

specially find it odd that they had her reacting to all of these patient scenarios, but when Carter and Lucy are stabbed, she isn't even at the hospital? Her shift is over. Did they write her to just show up for a minute at the end as a way to showcase the remaining players during the trauma, since she was leaving the show? Did Julianna not have time to film more scenes? I would love to know the writer's reasoning behind leaving her out of such a pivotal episode for literally every other character. We even see Chuny and Lydia's reactions, Randi, and I think nurse Lily, is it? I would have liked to have seen her working to save her co-workers with the others, to have at least seen a reaction beyond, "A trauma is coming in, we're short-staffed." It was jarring.

I hated that. Carol should have been there throughout that episode, not barely. And certainly not with such a detached reaction, which should have been written and delivered much better.

[Claire85]

I saw that as another example of Carol being really self-absorbed. In a later episode she tries to “comfort” Carter by comparing her having twins to his almost dying as examples of upheavals in life that you just have to roll with. 🙄

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Claire85 said:

I saw that as another example of Carol being really self-absorbed. In a later episode she tries to “comfort” Carter by comparing her having twins to his almost dying as examples of upheavals in life that you just have to roll with. 🙄

Carol didn't just compare having twins to being near-fatally stabbed, seeing a colleague near death and then sufffering with severe chronic pain; she threw in the fact that she was a single parent-completely her choice though she didn't mention that.  At that point, TPTB were setting up her exit from the show just a couple episodes later, but they didn't have to make her look so shallow and self absorbed in order to have her decide to leave.

[Cloud9Shopper]

It’s sort of interesting that for how popular this show was during its airing (at least S1-S8 and maybe a little after) that it also seems to be forgotten as time goes on. 

I was on the general TV subreddit a couple weeks ago and did a survey where one of the questions was your favorite TV shows of all time. (You could check more than one show off.) ER didn’t even crack the top 100 or the top 10 of shows that had finales over 10 years ago. I’m not sure how many people actually took the survey, but the fandom spaces today seem to just have a small but devoted group of people. I post in one space where there’s maybe 3-4 of us total in the ER thread. The fanbase isn’t that active when you think of shows like The Office or Glee or The Sopranos that also ended several years ago but have active subreddits or large devoted fanbases.

I’m pretty fascinated by this. ER can be found on streaming so I don’t think that’s the issue. I feel it’s one of two (or both) things:

Most fans find the later seasons (as in, post-Mark’s death and especially so once Carter left) atrocious and that still sticks with people who loved the original cast and S1-8. By S13 and S14 barely anyone seemed to be that interested anymore and a lot of people discovering the show on streaming also seem to want to quit around this time.

It’s too long. I know when I tell people the show is 15 seasons, they don’t necessarily want to stick with something that long. I like shows that have ended after six seasons so I can understand that in a way. 

Just observations I had. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

It’s sort of interesting that for how popular this show was during its airing (at least S1-S8 and maybe a little after) that it also seems to be forgotten as time goes on. 

I was on the general TV subreddit a couple weeks ago and did a survey where one of the questions was your favorite TV shows of all time. (You could check more than one show off.) ER didn’t even crack the top 100 or the top 10 of shows that had finales over 10 years ago. I’m not sure how many people actually took the survey, but the fandom spaces today seem to just have a small but devoted group of people. I post in one space where there’s maybe 3-4 of us total in the ER thread. The fanbase isn’t that active when you think of shows like The Office or Glee or The Sopranos that also ended several years ago but have active subreddits or large devoted fanbases.

I’m pretty fascinated by this. ER can be found on streaming so I don’t think that’s the issue. I feel it’s one of two (or both) things:

Most fans find the later seasons (as in, post-Mark’s death and especially so once Carter left) atrocious and that still sticks with people who loved the original cast and S1-8. By S13 and S14 barely anyone seemed to be that interested anymore and a lot of people discovering the show on streaming also seem to want to quit around this time.

It’s too long. I know when I tell people the show is 15 seasons, they don’t necessarily want to stick with something that long. I like shows that have ended after six seasons so I can understand that in a way. 

Just observations I had. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

I think that part of it was that the show ran out of steam years before it went off the air while shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, lasted only a few seasons and, due to being on cable, had shorter seasons and more time between seasons. So, they had many fewer episodes overall and there wasn't the precipitous drop in quality that ER saw.

Also, when it comes to reruns, sitcoms dominate the TV schedule and it is far easier to find reruns of Cheers or The Office on regular TV and streaming and each episode is short and self contained.  ER had long story arcs and character driven writing; watching a single episode in isolation is not as entertaining if you don't know the characters and their backgrounds.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Rootbeer

[ShortyMac]

It could also be that older people watched the show during S1-8 and don't really use the Internet.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

Also, when it comes to reruns, sitcoms dominate the TV schedule

Yes - and no. Procedurals also do extremely well in syndication (or did, before streaming became de rigueur), hence Law & Order, Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, Law & Order: Criminal Intent, NCIS, and Criminal Minds also being all over TV.

I think what may have hurt ER in syndication was the fact that, as someone said, it had many ongoing arcs, sort of like a soap. Procedurals, for the most part, were/are self contained (there can be some continuing things, but they tend to stay in the background), making watching easy as a viewer can just jump in whenever.

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, ShortyMac said:

It could also be that older people watched the show during S1-8 and don't really use the Internet.

Ouch. From an older person who watched most of the show in real time, rewatched on Netflix dvds (remember those?), definitely uses the internet, but never participated in Reddit polls. 

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Ouch. From an older person who watched most of the show in real time, rewatched on Netflix dvds (remember those?), definitely uses the internet, but never participated in Reddit polls. 

Back in the day, everyone watched ER, its demographics were quite good. and people of all ages watched.  I was in my early 30's back when it began and it really was 'must see TV'.  The show was one of the top rated shows in the US back when top rated shows got ratings of 30 or more compared to the 5 or 6 that a top rated show gets today.  Everybody talked about it the next day.

The ratings are based on the number of households with a TV who are tuned into a show.  Back in the day, top rated shows would get around a third of all TV's in use tuned to them while, nowadays, if 5% are watching, a show is a hit.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, TV is a LOT more diversified in terms of content than it was in 1994. I doubt you will ever really see a true "water cooler" show again since there is so much more in terms of content and choices today.

[Hiyo]

Yeah, I don't think reddit is the best example to use. Go on Youtube, and from the comments section there, it seems there were lots of people who enjoyed the last few seasons of the show. It all depends on the platform and how one uses it to justify their opinions.

I'd say the later seasons may note be as popular as the earlier seasons, but then again that's expected since fewer people were watching by then.

Quote

By S13 and S14 barely anyone seemed to be that interested anymore

The show was still averaging 10 million viewers by then, a far cry from the show in it's glory days but still surpassing the ratings of shows like The Office or Mad Men or Breaking Bad overall.

The show was still making enough of a profit to keep going till season 15.

Quote

I think that part of it was that the show ran out of steam years before it went off the air while shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, lasted only a few seasons and, due to being on cable, had shorter seasons and more time between seasons. So, they had many fewer episodes overall and there wasn't the precipitous drop in quality that ER saw.

Just to put things in perspective, the entire run of Breaking Bad is comparable to less than 3 seasons of ER, while the Sopranos is about equal to 4 seasons. If ER had ended after the first 5 or 6 seasons it would definitely be regarded differently today.

One other thing that led to the decline in ratings was probably also "Must See TV" on Thursday nights wasn't as big as it was in the 2000s as it was in the 90s in terms of ratings, even if it did have shows like The Office that captured the zeitgeist.

[RedbirdNelly]

I will add re long-running popularity--I think it is cool that when Pop started rerunning ER from the start, we were on page 1 of this. Now 109 pages. ER is a lot older than Breaking Bad or the Sopranos. I don't know of a show of around the same time period with this much of a Primetimer following. For what that is worth. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

15 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I will add re long-running popularity--I think it is cool that when Pop started rerunning ER from the start, we were on page 1 of this. Now 109 pages. ER is a lot older than Breaking Bad or the Sopranos. I don't know of a show of around the same time period with this much of a Primetimer following. For what that is worth. 

That’s a good point.

I do also believe that with natural passage of time and so many other TV options out there nowadays with streaming and cable, that people are likely to move on to other things rather than continuing to watch an old show over and over. I myself love ER but am also juggling a few other shows (new and old) so I don’t want to watch the same thing over and over with so many other options.

Anyway, ER is staying on Hulu! So for those of you who have HBO Max, it’s still coming there January 14 but will remain on Hulu for anyone like me who doesn’t want to pay for multiple streaming platforms to watch one show: 

https://popculture.com/streaming/news/er-hulu-keeps-iconic-nbc-medical-drama-hbo-max/

[Cloud9Shopper]

Did anyone else see this article? 
 

https://www.looper.com/723892/times-er-went-too-far/

I definitely think the article was poorly written (got Pratt’s first name wrong and some other inconsistencies) but I’m not sure I agree that a lot of these things are “too far.” Maybe because I also watch SVU and see things that are just as intense (or worse; there are some episodes of SVU that my mind can’t handle) as Lucy and Carter’s stabbing, Luka killing the mugger, etc. 

I do think that there are plenty of stupid arcs on this list, like Gates’ whole character, the thing with Morris’ nipples (which I forgot about until this article reminded me of it) and Clemente being out of control, one of many things that marked the decline starting in S12. But too far? Maybe only some of them (Romano and the helicopter, the army tank) seemed truly over the top. 

[Bastet]

I'd take the Lucy & Carter stabbings off the list, because "All in the Family" is a fantastic episode from start to finish; that's because the shocking plot development is the setting for a pitch perfect exploration of the relationships between all the characters, through both big and small moments.  It's not a short-sighted idea that provides shock value and nothing else, the aftermath never explored, leaving you pissed off once the shock fades.  It's well written and wonderfully acted.

I agree "On the Beach" was unnecessary, and could have been better, but I wouldn't put it on a list of things they shouldn't have done. 

The rest, though, I agree were too broad or gimmicky to have not been shouted down in the writers room as soon as they were brought up (the tank, the helicopter), or, more commonly, mishandled to the point of thoroughly wasting their potential, so, whatever positives there were, it would have been better had they not happened.

[ShortyMac]

Don't forget Jerry blowing up an ambulance with a grenade launcher. Yeesh.

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

Don't forget Jerry blowing up an ambulance with a grenade launcher. Yeesh.

And that was tame compared to some of the stuff we got as the show went on! 

[Racj82]

On 1/2/2022 at 5:13 PM, Rootbeer said:

I think that part of it was that the show ran out of steam years before it went off the air while shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, lasted only a few seasons and, due to being on cable, had shorter seasons and more time between seasons. So, they had many fewer episodes overall and there wasn't the precipitous drop in quality that ER saw.

Also, when it comes to reruns, sitcoms dominate the TV schedule and it is far easier to find reruns of Cheers or The Office on regular TV and streaming and each episode is short and self contained.  ER had long story arcs and character driven writing; watching a single episode in isolation is not as entertaining if you don't know the characters and their backgrounds.

The reality is that network dramas, at this point, don't have the cultural impact and longevity that other shows do. In terms of pop culture, rediscovery, etc. Premium cable, high value cable dramas and network sitcoms are the ticket. Your Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Friends, The Office. 

It doesn't mean that ER isn't hugely popular. It's just more popular with people that already watched it. 

Streamers aren't in bidding wars over ER and NYPD Blue. But, they are fighting for Friends, Seinfeld and Fresh Prince.

The why can be a lot of things. 

It can't be underestimated how much of a mission it is to watch a network drama to completion. Especially one this long. If if you quit once basically every OG is gone, it's a huge undertaking.

I've been doing a soft rewatch of Seinfeld. I've been able to get through a season in a work week easy. That's with a 10 hour a day job not factoring in travel.

If I tried that with ER I would be lucky to get a season done in double the time.

Same with non network dramas since they are generally half as long.

On the bright side, ER is not Chicago Hope. That show might as well of never happened at this point. ER is not forgotten and never will be.

[txhorns79]

I've been rewatching the show on HBO Max, and I'd forgotten just how good the writing can be during those first few seasons.  The characters all feel very real, including the recurring characters.  While I do find Kerry abrasive and lacking some basic people skills, I appreciate they show she isn't just an antagonist to the main cast.  I also really think Susan's whole arc with Little Suzie and Chloe is just so well done.  You see how Susan is just destroyed when Chloe shows up again and Susan has to give up custody.  The show really lost something when Sherry Stringfield decided to leave in Season 3. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I think the continuity of the recurring characters and their chemistry with the main cast (which was also a solid group of people) was part of why I loved the show so much in the early seasons. I cared about the guest star ER nurses and enjoyed them as much as I did Mark, Carol and Carter, and all the rest of them. I also liked the recurring surgeons of Morgenstern, Hicks and Anspaugh. (I wish we had gotten Hicks for longer; she was the coolest.) That, and it felt realistic without all the over the top antics that showed up in the later seasons. Not many shows can work in the supporting characters and the regular cast to have it all come together the way ER did. 

I do enjoy seasons one and two but I consider S3-S8 the prime of the show. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[txhorns79]

I had forgotten how much Jeanie's HIV status swallows up the first part of Season 3.  Mark should have been fired and lost his license for snooping in Jeanie's medical records to ascertain her status.  It's also interesting to see how sensitive and kind Weaver is with Jeanie. 

[Bastet]

7 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It's also interesting to see how sensitive and kind Weaver is with Jeanie.

For which Jeanie rewards her by shitting all over her.  I'm all in for Jeanie's lawsuit - I like that they showed the newly-codified protections of that time for people with HIV only existed on paper, as they were routinely fired under pretextural reasons with employers getting away with it due to how bias affected the burden of proof, and love her emerging victorious.

But it was Anspaugh who invented the need to eliminate a position and a seniority formula for choosing which one, a formula that - golly, gee, what a coincidence - landed on the one ER staff member known to have HIV.  His action was discriminatory, while Kerry's was the only one she could take under his mandate.  And she was not only personally supportive, but networked to find Jeanie another job.

But once Jeanie rightly got her job back, she not only never said, "Naming you in the suit was a necessary aspect of litigation, but I know your hands were tied by Anspaugh," she never even said, "Thank you."

7 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Mark should have been fired and lost his license for snooping in Jeanie's medical records to ascertain her status. 

I love the scene when Jeanie quietly blasts him with "Now you know about me, and I know about you" over his appalling decision to violate her privacy that way and his pathetic defense when she catches him being to dare lecture her on not disclosing her status to him.  But, yeah, that shouldn't have been his only "punishment" -- he violated not just hospital policy but state law.

I did appreciate the realism in the scene where Kerry and Mark were trying to hammer out a policy that complied with new, vague, and sometimes conflicting state and federal laws.  That captured the times, as did the patient warning Jeanie what would happen to her and it coming true. 

But Kerry got screwed by both Anspagh and Jeanie, and only the first was remotely acknowledged.  And Mark skated, because he's Mark.

[Racj82]

Rewatching season 4 right now.

I forgot how much I hated bitchy Mark.

I really hate that the show addressed but didn't have Mark as well as other personell fully learn about constantly jumping to conclusions about whether someone is drunk, on drugs or a sex worker. In tribes, he labels a woman as a crackhead when she was just a black woman in need of medical assistance. Her shot back at Mark about being called a crackhead after she was feeling better was sublime. Then, he proceeds to piss that all away by doing the same thing to another woman of color in the beginning of the season. He even gets call out on it since that was live episode but he doesn't give a shit. Amazing. I know Mark was designed to be making bad decisions and lashing out during that time but fuck off man.

Not get all woke man 2022 on it. I know it was a different time. But, it's frustrating watching any character not learn from their mistakes over and over again. Especially with Mark who thought he got assaulted because of an angry patient/family member. Maybe keep better bedside manner then.

Something I do love is how brother and sister like Doyle and Carter feel. They are like the bickering siblings Kerry has to keep in check.

I think we encounter our first true this would only happen in a tv hospital with Jerry blowing up the ambulance bay. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

I really hate that the show addressed but didn't have Mark as well as other personell fully learn about constantly jumping to conclusions about whether someone is drunk, on drugs or a sex worker.

And, dear gods, they all needed mandated sensitivity training on treating obese patients.  The fat shaming this show engaged in is disgusting.

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

And, dear gods, they all needed mandated sensitivity training on treating obese patients.  The fat shaming this show engaged in is disgusting.

Yes, something I notice on rewatch as well. The laughing at the obese woman that didn't know she was pregnant. Wow. They seemed to give Chuny a lot of that type of "humor"

I get that even the best of us make jokes we shouldn't. But, the staff seemed to love insulting the patients out in the open or during time with the patients. 

[Bastet]

The absolute worst was with a woman brought in by ambulance, and numerous people among the EMTs and ER staff stood right there next to her making fun of her weight.  Mark eventually piped up with one of his usual weak "settle down" type admonishments, but that was it.  I find it painful to watch, because there's no point to it -- we don't see her react, and we sure as hell don't see any of the assholes mocking her realize the harm caused to someone vulnerable and scared being greeted with ridicule rather than compassion.  It's just played as "funny" background chatter.

And even where they weren't mocking people based on their weight, they were defining them by it when it was totally irrelevant -- even little things like a teenager brought in for a head laceration getting presented as "obese 15-year-old with a head lac" matter, especially when they're part of such a clear pattern. 

The writers were awful to characters with mental illness, too.

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

The absolute worst was with a woman brought in by ambulance, and numerous people among the EMTs and ER staff stood right there next to her making fun of her weight.  Mark eventually piped up with one of his usual weak "settle down" type admonishments, but that was it.  I find it painful to watch, because there's no point to it -- we don't see her react, and we sure as hell don't see any of the assholes mocking her realize the harm caused to someone vulnerable and scared being greeted with ridicule rather than compassion.  It's just played as "funny" background chatter.

And even where they weren't mocking people based on their weight, they were defining them by it when it was totally irrelevant -- even little things like a teenager brought in for a head laceration getting presented as "obese 15-year-old with a head lac" matter, especially when they're part of such a clear pattern. 

The writers were awful to characters with mental illness, too.

Yeah. I think their defense would be the same as cops and first responders. They see so much crap everyday. The off color humor is how they cope. They've become desensitized to it all.

It justifies nothing. Especially, in front of or around the patients.

They don't do it around patients much but I hate doctor shows, especially with surgeons, who are begging for some sort of tragedy so they can cut or have something to do. It honestly makes me sick at this point.

There are parts of certain jobs I will just never understand.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Listened to the S6 premiere on the podcast just now. This is my first memory of watching the show regularly and remembering when every woman and teenage girl in my house (I was 14 at the time) fell in love with Luka. 

Nowadays my feelings get mixed because I’ve seen the whole series and hate what he becomes in the later years. But this is what started my obsession with the show overall! It was maybe only a year later that I was watching TNT reruns during summer breaks and snow days to see everything I was too young to see in the earlier seasons. S6 was also one of my favorite seasons overall.

I’m also sad hearing Reggie propose to Jeanie knowing they are separated when she returns in S14. They were cute together.

Hearing Kerry turn on Mark in the Romano meeting…I have my feelings. I felt like I could understand why Kerry did that (she tells Mark that they knew Romano was going to get the job and had to change her mind herself) but at the same time it felt a little bit like whoa Kerry, that wasn’t cool. 

 

[readster]

21 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Hearing Kerry turn on Mark in the Romano meeting…I have my feelings. I felt like I could understand why Kerry did that (she tells Mark that they knew Romano was going to get the job and had to change her mind herself) but at the same time it felt a little bit like whoa Kerry, that wasn’t cool. 

 

Sadly, I had been in Mark's spot a lot in various jobs. One minute someone has your back and then they change their stance right as the situation unfolded. Once I was suppose to be nominated as the new assistant manager after working at the place two years. I was told by the outgoing assistant and the other crew leader I was to be the new assistant. Right there the crew leader said they wanted to be the assistant as they had been crew leader it was the next line for them and they previous had more leadership experience than me. The other agreed and when they got the position, all hell broke loose. I quit a year later and the district manager realized I had been keeping the company afloat the past two years and that everyone had me managing them because the person who got the promotion was on mini-Hitler mode and everyone was miserable. I left and the new general manager at the time realized I had been doing all of her work and she in a huff quit because the district manager was going to fire her and later apologized to me because of what happened to me. Even offered me to return and I just told them "no and good luck." The place was bought out a year later. 

[Claire85]

Kerry weaseled out of a lot of things like this. I never felt you could take her at her word, she’d turn on you in a second if it would score her points with the higher up people. 

[readster]

16 hours ago, Claire85 said:

Kerry weaseled out of a lot of things like this. I never felt you could take her at her word, she’d turn on you in a second if it would score her points with the higher up people. 

Why I started disliking the character, you could never trust her. Like I said up thread, she ended up reminding me of a former coworker of mine and then I was just turned off from the character. 

[Racj82]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:25 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Listened to the S6 premiere on the podcast just now. This is my first memory of watching the show regularly and remembering when every woman and teenage girl in my house (I was 14 at the time) fell in love with Luka. 

Nowadays my feelings get mixed because I’ve seen the whole series and hate what he becomes in the later years. But this is what started my obsession with the show overall! It was maybe only a year later that I was watching TNT reruns during summer breaks and snow days to see everything I was too young to see in the earlier seasons. S6 was also one of my favorite seasons overall.

I’m also sad hearing Reggie propose to Jeanie knowing they are separated when she returns in S14. They were cute together.

Hearing Kerry turn on Mark in the Romano meeting…I have my feelings. I felt like I could understand why Kerry did that (she tells Mark that they knew Romano was going to get the job and had to change her mind herself) but at the same time it felt a little bit like whoa Kerry, that wasn’t cool. 

 

I have such a weird ER watching journey. I started watching live in season 10 but season 6 on TNT because that's where it was airing-wise when first caught it. So, that means I saw Lucy die after barely knowing her. I saw Susan and Deb return before I met them. The Doug/Carol reunion meant nothing to me. I watched Mark basically die for two seasons before anything else. Had no idea Carter was a surgeon first. Korday was with Benton first. All of these crazy things. I would never watch TV like that now but that was pre everything we use now. 

Watching season 4 in pieces right now. I love Daddy Benton. Season 4 is easily his best year. Reese and Elizabeth bring joy to his life I never saw him have before. The fucking grin on his face when Carter asks him about being a Dad. He's a happy man. He starts treating Carter as an equal. It's just great.

I don't know why but I love how Carter says Maggie's name. They such bickering kids with each other. It may be unpopular but I love Maggie this time around. I don't always love her but I love how firmly she stands her ground.

The show didn't have a super strong group of strong women early on. So much about Susan involved her buckling to the pressure of men. But, Susan grew as did Carol. Anna, Maggie, Jeannie and Kerry helped bolster the presence of strong women all around.

The dynamic shift between Mark and Doug is not lost on me. Doug is so mature and thoughtful by season 4. Now, Mark is taking things too personally and destroying things around him as a bit of self destruction. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I loved Maggie Doyle so you are definitely not alone. (Had to remember for a second that you weren’t talking about Abby’s mom Maggie, LOL.) I do wish some of the side characters had gotten a main cast bump or weren’t gone one day with no explanation. It happens in real life; I get it but I always really miss certain side characters when they’re gone.

The women on the show were so strong in the early days! By the late years they were so whiny and dramatic and the cool side characters were virtually nonexistent. It was hard to believe that was the best crop of women they could get to showcase females in medicine. 

[Bastet]

Corday was my favorite of the female characters for several reasons, the biggest one being how immediately and often she sought out the company of the other women in the ER.  I love that gathering at her apartment (that Benton so rudely interrupts), and how much she enjoyed the company of women in general.  As a surgeon, she's surrounded by a lot of men, so she needs to balance that.  A lot of women in male-dominated professions can relate.

Her consistent attitude towards women is why writing her as the horrible stereotype of an insecure, jealous wife when Susan returned was ridiculous and really pissed me off.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Elizabeth is my all-time favorite female character on the show, so you’re not alone! 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

I watch ER during my lunch break (on POP) and I got to sit and rewatch the episode with Carol at the convenience store when the robbers (young Ewan McGregor!) shot the old man.  I watched it live back in the day and even today, I was surprised how intense and well written this episode was. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:55 PM, Bastet said:

And, dear gods, they all needed mandated sensitivity training on treating obese patients.  The fat shaming this show engaged in is disgusting.

The day I decided that I didn't want to be a surgeon was the day I heard  two residents blithely describe an obese patient as a "big, fat, slug".

Jesum peace, that's someone's mother/daughter/wife/sister you're talking about.

On 1/30/2022 at 6:14 PM, Bastet said:

Her consistent attitude towards women is why writing her as the horrible stereotype of an insecure, jealous wife when Susan returned was ridiculous and really pissed me off.

I really hated that. The Elizabeth I knew and loved would have been laughing and joking with Susan and TEASINGLY telling her, "He's (Mark) mine now.", not nastily rebuffing her attempts at friendship with snide, sanctimonious, passive-aggressive comments about breastfeeding.

It's especially bad when you consider that Mark never gave her grief about working with her ex-lover, but it's apparently a mortal sin for him to work with someone he never even dated.

Interestingly, "Union Station" aired recently. When it first did, it was before spoilers and after countless examples of the "Race For Your Love" trope always working out, so it was absolutely stunning to see poor Mark run all the way across Chicago. . . only to be rebuffed.

Wow.

On 1/28/2022 at 4:41 PM, Claire85 said:

Kerry weaseled out of a lot of things like this. I never felt you could take her at her word, she’d turn on you in a second if it would score her points with the higher up people. 

Absolutely.

On 1/29/2022 at 9:09 AM, readster said:

Why I started disliking the character, you could never trust her

It's sad that someone who went to bat for Jeanie and clearly admired Carol for not trying to blame others for her mistake would become notorious for screwing people over the first chance she got and doing everything she could think of to make sure she incurred no blame for whatever went wrong.

On 1/27/2022 at 3:25 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Hearing Kerry turn on Mark in the Romano meeting…I have my feelings. I felt like I could understand why Kerry did that (she tells Mark that they knew Romano was going to get the job and had to change her mind herself) but at the same time it felt a little bit like whoa Kerry, that wasn’t cool. 

No, it wasn't. And if she'd truly done it for the sake of the ER, I might have cut her a little slack, but that wasn't why. She did it for herself, plain and simple, then used the bullshit "for the good of the ER" excuse to practically gaslight Mark into not being angry at her and instead praise her for making such a noble sacrifice. If the roles had been reversed, she would have NEVER forgiven Mark for wimping out, but somehow, she expects him to thank her for the crappy thing she did. I suppose it's just a wonderful coincidence that Romano finally gave her the ER Chief position that she's been clamoring for for two years.

 

[Heathen]

ER could have had a great storyline about Corday having postpartum depression after Ella's birth, which could have explained the dramatic change in her personality, her problems with Mark, and so on. The writers really dropped the ball. I remember even at the time thinking that PPD would have been an excellent, timely topic; Ella was born just around the time Andrea Yates killed her children, IIRC. 

[txhorns79]

I'm in the fifth season now, and I'm trying to figure out who is worse, Carter or Lucy?  He's a terrible teacher, with a face you want to punch at times, particularly when he is being smug or smirking.  She whines a lot, and really is just not a good fit for the show.    

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm in the fifth season now, and I'm trying to figure out who is worse, Carter or Lucy?  He's a terrible teacher, with a face you want to punch at times, particularly when he is being smug or smirking.  She whines a lot, and really is just not a good fit for the show.    

It’s a tough call but Lucy was for me. She showed up acting like she knew everything already and was willing to lie and go behind Carter’s back to make herself seem smart. The reality was she was flustered way too easily to ever be a good ER doctor, and while I’m not in the medical world myself, I would say hey if she fails her rotation she deserves to. And then she went off her Ritalin based on what Carter said even though she knew it helped her. Someone as smart as she claimed to be wouldn’t have just stopped taking beneficial meds just because of one asshole opinion.

I remember when I was first watching the show (pre-streaming days) I thought med school was like ER where students stayed in one department for a long time. (Don’t be too hard on me; I was still in high school at the time.) It was only coming here and reading posts from people who are doctors and work in hospitals that I learned how short med school rotations actually are.  

[Kel Varnsen]

15 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm in the fifth season now, and I'm trying to figure out who is worse, Carter or Lucy?  He's a terrible teacher, with a face you want to punch at times, particularly when he is being smug or smirking.  She whines a lot, and really is just not a good fit for the show.    

I remember being annoyed by that but it actually kind of made sense. Carter's main teacher was Benton, a total hard ass give you tons of work style teacher who was also very hands off and expected his students to figure things out themselves and give him results. That worked with Carter because I think he was supposed to be an exceptionally gifted student who also worked hard. So when it came time for him to teach he copied that. But Lucy wasn't as talented as he was when he was a student so it didn't work at all.

[txhorns79]

34 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That worked with Carter because I think he was supposed to be an exceptionally gifted student who also worked hard. So when it came time for him to teach he copied that. But Lucy wasn't as talented as he was when he was a student so it didn't work at all.

I think you are right in that Carter was copying Benton's style.  Carter just is no Benton, and Lucy felt too flummoxed by everything to do decent ER work.

On the positive side, it is nice to see Benton being a normal human in the scenes with his son.  I think that's the most I've seen Benton smile the entire series.  

Boo to Corday for not initially being more supportive of Doyle's allegations against Romano.  I cringe when I hear her talking about people who react badly to him needing a thicker skin or being too sensitive. 

And seriously, did they have some other storyline in mind for the Amanda Lee arc and things had to change midway through filming?  None of it makes sense.  We are told that she's such a master fabulist that she was to the point where she was able to fake her way through a residency, and could competently run a major urban ER, but she's also a complete psycho who immediately latches onto Mark and tells stories that set her up to easily be found out.

[txhorns79]

Oh Season 6.  Too many characters.  Too little time. 

On the positive side, Laura Innes' scenes with Alan Alda where he reveals his diagnosis are quite lovely.  You can see Kerry's utter devastation and it's all very well done. 

Also, the entire storyline with Anthony Edwards and John Cullum as son comes to an understanding with his father and he helps him on his last journey still make me tear up. 

On the negative side, I feel like the show has never gotten a handle on Carla/Benton relationship.  She always sees all over the place.  She chastises Peter for his parenting, while making her own rash decisions (declaring she, Roger and Reese are moving to Germany).  She acts offended and angry when Peter initially questions Reese' paternity when Carla is pregnant, then throws it out there like a bomb when he stands in the way of her moving.   

Malucci's general immaturity and attitude is just too much.  He should not be a doctor. 

Finally, sorry ER, you are not Silence of the Lambs.  You can do better by Corday. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Been watching random episodes lately while I do my schoolwork and I ended up on the S7 finale tonight. 

I always get the feels when Adele is brought in (another secondary character I love who meshed well with everyone) and Mark sends the cops to search his house. 

Kerry’s speech to Romano never gets old.

When the previously was shown I’d totally forgotten that Carla had tried to come on to Peter. It was so cringe! I never liked the way she treated him. 

I feel like I’m starting to understand the references to Luka just being kind of a creep that I could never get when I was younger. I don’t remember if Abby was waffling on the med school thing prior to this episode but she’s an adult and it’s so infantilizing that he turned in her reinstatement form for her and was hounding her on what she wanted to do. I liked her for about those few minutes…and then she goes running to Carter to relay the drama and he tells her to STFU basically. No wonder they both got fed up with her in S7-9 or 10. Further solidified my belief that the only relationship Abby should’ve ended up in was a marriage to herself (like Sue on Glee) or a bottle of booze.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Further solidified my belief that the only relationship Abby should’ve ended up in was a marriage to herself (like Sue on Glee) or a bottle of booze.

I liked Abby in Season 7, and thought Maura Tierney did a good job of showing how world weary Abby was vis a vis her mother.  In Season 8, I felt like she and Kovac did a total heel turn.  When Kovac told Abby she wasn't that pretty or special, I almost gasped.  I don't know how you come back from such nastiness, and it felt very out of character for him to say that.

I'm in Season 8, and they've just started the custody battle for Reese.  In most states, I think the rule still is, if you are the father listed on the birth certificate, for all legal purposes you are the child's father, regardless of whether it is found out later, the child is not biologically your own. 

I'm also kind of mixed on the Marfan syndome situation with Chen, Weaver and Malucci.  I was fine with Dave being later fired after Weaver found him having sex with the EMT.  He was a jerk and really lacked the professional demeanor to be a doctor.  As to Chen, Weaver was right in the sense that Chen did a terrible job assessing the situation for someone who was Chief Resident.  Chen was right in that Kerry should have been there, and not answering her page was negligence.  I really enjoyed when Chen was reinstated, and Kerry's attempt to cover the situation up and protect herself failed, but maybe Chen should not have been quite so smug.