All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, limecoke said:

In season one, Carter is introduced as a 3rd year medical student. My understanding is that at the end of 4-year medical school (post-bachelors degree), the med student earns the title of “Doctor of Medicine.” Yet as a 3rd year student Carter is referred to in the ER as “doctor” and even as a “resident” at times. He also seems to be in the ER every day, thus never attending classes at whatever University he’s associated with.  I just watched an episode where this 3rd year student is allowed to intubate a patient. Am I confused on this or is the show the thing that’s confusing me? I’m re-watching season one and this seriously bugs me.

The first two years of med school are classroom and lab work.  The second two are all clinical.  However, while on each clinical rotation, there would be lectures, case presentations, etc for the students to attend, usually several hours a week.  No med student would spend as much time in the ER as Carter did.  Usually, a student would do a single ER rotation, usually as an elective, and it would maybe last 4-6 weeks total.  Since ER is 24/7 as a specialty, at least some of the student's ER shifts would be at night or on weekends or holidays, too.  OB rotations are also like that while most other rotations don't expect students to be there at night or on weekends/holidays.

When we first saw Carter, he was a medical student on a general surgery rotation.  In real life, most of his time would've been spent up on the wards or in the OR with only occasional trips to the ER.  Benton, as a surgical resident, spent far too much of his time in the ER, too.

You're correct, medical students are not doctors and should not be addressed as such.  However, back when I was in med school in the early 80's, a lot of the residents and attendings I worked with would introduce me as Dr. M.  It always made me uncomfortable.  Nowadays, it is rare for anyone to refer to a student as 'doctor'.

As far as intubating, I did it in the OR as a student while being directly supervised by a physician.  Technical skills are part of what students need to learn.  Student start IV's and draw blood all the time.  Putting in central lines, tapping bellies, suturing, delivering babies or intubating are less frequently done by students, but I certainly did most of them and so do most students at some point.  Once again, only under direct supervision of a practicing doc.

[debraran]

Mark, until he wanted to leave and got a brain tumor, was the heart of the ER. He couldn't leave and still have ER be "ER" so they made him have all this drama. I think it was realistic but also naive. They never really spoke of this ahead of time? I felt bad for Rachel because she seemed to be an obstacle from the time she was young to adulthood. Both wanted jobs that made being home minimal and although Marks' friends and buds were at County, he would have made new friends the way I'm sure Doug did and Benton and others. But of course the show didn't want him to leave. I wish they had his wife get a job a bit closer, made her just cheat and it wasn't the distance adding to it. (although I feel she didn't love him that much) She was put on back burner and deserved her turn but working the way Mark did I don't think they talked very much. They wanted Mark to be with Lizzie and others as more fodder for scripts but the soap opera part could have been cut to show a very real dilemma better. Make them have more intelligent talks about their faults, needs and wants and how to make it best for Rachel and each other. It started well but disintegrated.

When I worked at a large teaching hospital, you saw this, but it was "who was going to make the most money" and sometimes one partner had to leave or one didn't and he/she worked in adjoining state and commuted. It's exhausting but for some it works.

[Rootbeer]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

Mark, until he wanted to leave and got a brain tumor, was the heart of the ER. He couldn't leave and still have ER be "ER" so they made him have all this drama. I think it was realistic but also naive. They never really spoke of this ahead of time? I felt bad for Rachel because she seemed to be an obstacle from the time she was young to adulthood. Both wanted jobs that made being home minimal and although Marks' friends and buds were at County, he would have made new friends the way I'm sure Doug did and Benton and others. But of course the show didn't want him to leave. I wish they had his wife get a job a bit closer, made her just cheat and it wasn't the distance adding to it. (although I feel she didn't love him that much) She was put on back burner and deserved her turn but working the way Mark did I don't think they talked very much. They wanted Mark to be with Lizzie and others as more fodder for scripts but the soap opera part could have been cut to show a very real dilemma better. Make them have more intelligent talks about their faults, needs and wants and how to make it best for Rachel and each other. It started well but disintegrated.

When I worked at a large teaching hospital, you saw this, but it was "who was going to make the most money" and sometimes one partner had to leave or one didn't and he/she worked in adjoining state and commuted. It's exhausting but for some it works.

Mark was the star of the show and AE had a contract, so, of course, he wasn't going anywhere.  I agree that we really didn't need Jen moving to another city to show the difficulties in a two career family.  It happens a lot in medicine.  I've got a friend who is finishing her 5 year ortho residency in a city that is 4 hours away from the city where her husband is tenured faculty at a major university.  She tried to land a residency in that town and it didn't happen, so they made the best of it because leaving behind a tenured professorship was not a reasonable plan, either.

It didn't do the character of Mark any favors to see him be so pissy about moving to another city for Jen's career when it was obvious that she'd done it for him and he apparently previously indicated that he would do it.  Choosing his job over his wife was never going to end well.

I think Mark and Jen got married too young and, having dissimilar personalities and interests, just drifted apart.  It happens and they could've shown that rather than having him refuse to make a sacrifice for her career and then she has an affair.  I think the writers might've tossed in the affair because Mark was the hero of the show and the audience was not enamored of his behavior over the move to Milwaukee.  They wanted to point the finger at Jen as the bad guy in the divorce

The reason Mark ended up with Liz was because AE demanded a love interest who was also in the main cast to maximize screen time and storyline for Mark.  Having Mark date women outside the ER was not giving him the storylines he wanted.  Meanwhile, Corday was available for Mark because ELS wanted Benton to have a successful relationship with a woman of color.  That's what happens with very successful shows; the stars start to dictate casting and storyline.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Supposedly part of the reason NW hated the Lucy/Carter relationship is because he wasn't consulted on the casting of Kellie Martin and he felt, that, as one of the show's stars, he deserved to be in on the decision.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I listened to the podcast episode today involving Love’s Labor Lost, and once the delivery gets messy, I got a somewhat fresh perspective on just how bad Mark was in over his head. (This video I saw a few months ago from a real-life OB was a huge help too, although since she is an OB she’s not exactly on Mark’s side.) And he was absolutely overconfident that he could handle a pregnancy with complications. I didn’t realize how much he had missed until Coburn was going over everything with him and called out the poor job on the C-section. That said, I also understand how bad OB botched this one. It seemed so crazy to me that aside from Coburn who was MIA for a long-ass time that there was only one other OB on call? (And also, WTF is a repeat C-section? Can someone explain that to me?) County can’t be that underfunded, can it? 

It definitely makes sense why the husband sued Mark. Even he knew that Mark didn’t know what the hell he was doing. I’d be so pissed if that were my relative. Once the baby’s shoulder got stuck inside, it just got too painful for me and someone from OB really should’ve been yanked to the ER at that point. It really was just one of those things where everybody screwed up and it’s a wonder the baby survived too. 

Oddly enough, OB being unavailable and the ER needing to do urgent deliveries remained a theme throughout the series. 

On a lighter (I guess?) note, I do grow to like Coburn but if she yelled at me the way she did at Mark I’d probably cry myself into a puddle so be glad I’m not a doctor. :)

[CrazyInAlabama]

I believe a repeat C-section is a patient who had at least one previous C-section.  

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I believe a repeat C-section is a patient who had at least one previous C-section.  

Yep, that's what it means.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Thank you both! :) 

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I listened to the podcast episode today involving Love’s Labor Lost, and once the delivery gets messy, I got a somewhat fresh perspective on just how bad Mark was in over his head. (This video I saw a few months ago from a real-life OB was a huge help too, although since she is an OB she’s not exactly on Mark’s side.) And he was absolutely overconfident that he could handle a pregnancy with complications. I didn’t realize how much he had missed until Coburn was going over everything with him and called out the poor job on the C-section. That said, I also understand how bad OB botched this one. It seemed so crazy to me that aside from Coburn who was MIA for a long-ass time that there was only one other OB on call? (And also, WTF is a repeat C-section? Can someone explain that to me?) County can’t be that underfunded, can it? 

It definitely makes sense why the husband sued Mark. Even he knew that Mark didn’t know what the hell he was doing. I’d be so pissed if that were my relative. Once the baby’s shoulder got stuck inside, it just got too painful for me and someone from OB really should’ve been yanked to the ER at that point. It really was just one of those things where everybody screwed up and it’s a wonder the baby survived too. 

Oddly enough, OB being unavailable and the ER needing to do urgent deliveries remained a theme throughout the series. 

On a lighter (I guess?) note, I do grow to like Coburn but if she yelled at me the way she did at Mark I’d probably cry myself into a puddle so be glad I’m not a doctor. :)

My medical experience is in obstetrics and Mark was way too overconfident and did indeed make multiple crucial errors both in diagnosing Jody and later in treating her.  

At one point, he claimed to have delivered over 200 babies.  No way any ER resident has delivered more than 20 and most will have no mare than a handful, especially in a hospital with an obstetric unit.  And County would've had a dozen or more OB residents on site during the daytime and at least a few on call overnight.  No way they were 'too busy' to handle Jody who was far sicker than anyone on OB most likely.  Inducing labor in the ER?  Never!  An ER doc who knows how to read a fetal monitor and actually knows the terminology and management.  Nope!

When things went south with Jody, he performed something called a Zavenelli maneuver when he couldn't deliver the baby vaginally.  That means he pushed the head back inside her and performed a cesarean.  That move is in the textbook as a last resort.  I have practiced OB for almost 40 years and, despite having done more than 8000 deliveries, I have NEVER performed a Zavenelli maneuver, never seen anyone else do one, never met a patient who'd had it done.  When I took the oral board exam, one of the questions was about shoulder dystocia, the problem at Jody's delivery.  The examiner presented the patient and then I had to describe what I would do.  There are about a half dozen options and I went through them all and, of course, none worked.  I finally got to the Zavanelli and the examiner, considered a top notch OB/GYN and in practice around 20 years asked if I'd ever seen or done one.  Nope. 'Me neither' he replied and laughed.  Mark wouldn't have known about it, wouldn't have had the vaguest notion how to do it and would not have even known what it was called in real life.

In a later years episode, Abby the great is also delivering a baby that gets stuck.  She whips out a scalpel and cuts through the woman's pelvic joint to deliver the baby vaginally.  Another move no one has ever seen or done here in the US.  It does get done in underdeveloped nations where cesareans not possible.

In real life, there is no way the ER would've ever even been seeing Jody.  Virtually every hospital with an OB unit would divert any near term pregnant patient away from the ER.  Most ER docs hate pregnancy and do not want anything to do with pregnant patients.  I once had to beg the ER to take a pregnant woman who'd broken her arm in an accident.  They wanted her treated on OB and there was a bone sticking out of her skin!  Ewww!  

Even back in the day, OB was also a high malpractice specialty which also meant that ER docs didn't want to touch it.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Heathen]

Rewatching season 11, episode 22 (Carter's departure episode) reminds me that Shane West is not a very good actor. His response when the third- or fourth-floor balcony railing collapses, along with his love interest, is almost giggle-worthy. 

Also, didn't they freaking learn, from Chen and Malucci killing the Marfanoid patient, to always have an attending IN the ER?! Somewhere, Weaver impales Kovac with her crutch. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Ray was never one of my favorite characters but I didn’t particularly dislike him either. I thought it was kind of ridiculous that no one seemed to much care he was missing after the Luby wedding. I especially didn’t care about his thing with Neela. They seemed like good friends to me (which is fine; don’t get me wrong), but I never saw romance. I wish Neela had gotten more time to be happy with Gallant.

The Show Must Go On is my alternate series finale. S12 is when the decline started, IMO.

Also, your resident fanfic writer is back with the last chapter of my first fic! I do promise that for those of you who this was too much to read, that I have more lighthearted ideas on the way. 

https://archiveofourown.org/works/30910673/chapters/83939887

[limecoke]

Thank you, Rootbeer, for clarifying the Carter/ med student thing. Very helpful and exactly what I wanted to understand.  I just rewatched “Love’s Labors Lost” & it still makes me squirm, but I still contend that ER is miles, maybe eons ahead of any medical drama produced today-even with all its mistakes. At least it didn’t thoroughly beclown itself it like Chicago Med & Grey’s Anatomy do regularly. 

[ch1]

10 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

The Show Must Go On is my alternate series finale. S12 is when the decline started, IMO.

This was my series finale because I pretty much checked out after this episode.  The only episodes I watched after season 11 was when NW came back. I was as out of it as Carter was in S15 because I didn’t know what the hell was going on or who half the characters were. 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Continuing to relive S1 via podcast and I got up to House of Cards (1x21) today. I cringed when they played the audio of Chen saying she didn’t care about the patient: she just wanted the procedure (the misguided central line). Yeah. Not who I’d want taking care of me in an ER. 

Two questions, though, for @Rootbeer or anyone else who knows. How did she just get off with no consequences from that (at least I don’t recall any onscreen)? I know she ran off and quit and comes back later, but it seemed like she never really got disciplined for it and all was good once her dad bought her way back into County in S6. Would that be a black mark on her record as far as being able to finish med school and eventually get a residency? She did do the procedure unsupervised so it seemed surprising that she wasn’t really punished.

Second, what is the purpose of the procedure books she and Carter were keeping? Do they have to document that they did an X number of procedures or certain types of them, or do observations of procedures count? I can’t recall Lucy or Abby keeping one down the road, and if they did, I must’ve missed it. And is it really that competitive among med students to do certain types of procedures on rotations?  

I have to say, I was never a fan of Chen either way. Didn’t like her or feel annoyed by her. She was quitting so much and coming back that I never cared about her and wasn’t overly sad when she left and then never mentioned again, except when she sent flowers after Pratt’s death. 

[Rootbeer]

16 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Continuing to relive S1 via podcast and I got up to House of Cards (1x21) today. I cringed when they played the audio of Chen saying she didn’t care about the patient: she just wanted the procedure (the misguided central line). Yeah. Not who I’d want taking care of me in an ER. 

Two questions, though, for @Rootbeer or anyone else who knows. How did she just get off with no consequences from that (at least I don’t recall any onscreen)? I know she ran off and quit and comes back later, but it seemed like she never really got disciplined for it and all was good once her dad bought her way back into County in S6. Would that be a black mark on her record as far as being able to finish med school and eventually get a residency? She did do the procedure unsupervised so it seemed surprising that she wasn’t really punished.

Second, what is the purpose of the procedure books she and Carter were keeping? Do they have to document that they did an X number of procedures or certain types of them, or do observations of procedures count? I can’t recall Lucy or Abby keeping one down the road, and if they did, I must’ve missed it. And is it really that competitive among med students to do certain types of procedures on rotations?  

I have to say, I was never a fan of Chen either way. Didn’t like her or feel annoyed by her. She was quitting so much and coming back that I never cared about her and wasn’t overly sad when she left and then never mentioned again, except when she sent flowers after Pratt’s death. 

The log books and the competition between Carter and Chen for procedures was completely fictional.  As a student, it is really fun and interesting to get to do procedures, but nobody keeps track except informally amongst student themselves.  Placing central lines and chest tubes, intubating patients, delivering babies, etc are really cool and most students, including myself, got to do most of them a few times; but it is meaningless to your medical school progress; it isn't part of the grade at all.

Medical students are there to learn to take histories and examine patients, to learn the basics of differential diagnosis and treatment in various specialties and to learn how to work as part of a team in a healthcare setting.  Procedures are frosting on the cake.  No med student has to keep track, nor submit their numbers to get a grade.  Getting procedures mainly is a function of being in the right place at the right time.  A patient needed a procedure and the attending and/ or resident had the time and interest to teach you how to do it.  Dumb luck.

Carter and Chen claimed that getting lots of procedures was key to a good residency.  Residency programs do not even ask how many technical procedures a student has done.  It doesn't matter, there are oodles of procedures just out there waiting to be done by residents and many programs would much prefer not to get an intern who did a lot of procedures but learned poor technique, than someone who didn't do many and doesn't have any bad habits.

I was working with an intern once who'd done a clinical rotation at USC hospital where she did 50 deliveries as a medical student, a huge number.  Then, I watched her do a delivery; she had no idea what to do.  Turns out, USC's maternity ward is massive, extremely busy and the vast majority of the deliveries she did were for women who did not speak English and who had had 4 or more babies already.  It was too busy for anyone to take the time to critique her; it was just catch and run all day,  She had a tougher time learning how to do it properly after just winging it than if she'd never done a delivery at all.

I cannot imagine even the most confident and experienced of medical students placing a central line unsupervised though.  Definitely dramatic license.  It's so over the top that it is hard for me to imagine what would happen in real life if a student took it upon themselves to decide to place a central line without supervision; it just never happens.  That's even with a successful placement and no complications.  I expect the attending and resident supervising that student would come done on them hard, like a ton of bricks and I, personally, would not want to work with that person again.  I need to trust people to do the right thing, the safe thing; no matter the circumstances.  If she'd been working with me, I'd have notified my department chair who would've probably contacted the med school and that probably would've been the end of her ER rotation and probably her passing grade.

On a monetary note; the equipment and X rays involved to place a central line are expensive, like probably a thousand bucks or so, there is also a procedure fee charged by the practitioner inserting the line.  If a student places a line without an attending physician who is licensed and has authorization to bill insurance companies for his o her work; the hospital has to eat the entire cost.  None of it can be billed even if the student does everything perfectly and the line works great and the attending agrees that it was needed.  To bill for procedures not performed by a licensed practitioner or or in his presence under his direct supervision is insurance fraud.  Huge fines, even prison terms can happen to people who commit insurance fraud.  And hospitals don't look kindly on med students who cost them thousands of dollars in billable services.  Which is why someone in charge at County would've also wanted to see Chen removed pronto if they heard what she did.

ETA:  If someone performed a procedure without proper authorization and training, it would also trigger an investigation as a sentinel event which are things that happen in hospitals that should never happen and could result in serious harm or death, usually to a patient.  Leaving a sponge in a surgical wound is a sentinel event, giving the wrong medication to a patient is a sentinel event, an unqualified practitioner performing unauthorized procedures would be a sentinel event.  It would have to be reported to JCAH who could remove the hospital's accreditation if there is a suspected ongoing problem.  No accreditation, no insurance companies, including Uncle Sam, will pay the hospital and the hospital will close.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Cloud9Shopper]

Just finished S1 via podcast today. Does anyone know why S1 was 25 episodes and most of the remaining seasons (except 14, which was cut short) have the standard 22 episodes? It feels so long to get through after a while. 

I don’t have much to add at this point except it amazes me that Carol and Tag made it to the church at all. They really should’ve broken it off way sooner, especially once Tag wasn’t all in on the Tatiana fostering/adoption matter but Carol decided to go check on it again anyway. The fighting about the church and Carol having doubts (and asking Lydia about them) were also huge red flags. 

And oh yeah. Chloe can’t go away fast enough. 

[Hiyo]

Chloe was probably one of the worst family members we got in the show's run. Definitely in the top 3, at least.

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Just finished S1 via podcast today. Does anyone know why S1 was 25 episodes and most of the remaining seasons (except 14, which was cut short) have the standard 22 episodes? It feels so long to get through after a while. 

I don’t have much to add at this point except it amazes me that Carol and Tag made it to the church at all. They really should’ve broken it off way sooner, especially once Tag wasn’t all in on the Tatiana fostering/adoption matter but Carol decided to go check on it again anyway. The fighting about the church and Carol having doubts (and asking Lydia about them) were also huge red flags. 

And oh yeah. Chloe can’t go away fast enough. 

I think Season1 includes the pilot, so that's one extra episode.  The pilot is also a double episode, so it takes almost 2 hours to watch instead of one. I think it might be because ER became a runaway hit, a phenomenon, and NBC might've ordered a couple of extra episodes for the huge ratings.  I was around and watching, but don't really remember.  Back in the 90's though, I don't think that network TV shows consistently produced 22 episodes a season as they do now.  It seems to me like a lot of shows had more than 22 episodes in a season.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I think Season1 includes the pilot, so that's one extra episode.  The pilot is also a double episode, so it takes almost 2 hours to watch instead of one. I think it might be because ER became a runaway hit, a phenomenon, and NBC might've ordered a couple of extra episodes for the huge ratings.  I was around and watching, but don't really remember.  Back in the 90's though, I don't think that network TV shows consistently produced 22 episodes a season as they do now.  It seems to me like a lot of shows had more than 22 episodes in a season.

Thank you! I was only nine during the first season (wasn’t really able to watch it until S6 when I was 14), so I figured I’d ask here to see if anyone had any insight. 

[Rootbeer]

20 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Thank you! I was only nine during the first season (wasn’t really able to watch it until S6 when I was 14), so I figured I’d ask here to see if anyone had any insight. 

Remember, when ER debuted in 1994, cable TV was in its infancy and produced almost no original content.  So, the networks were huge, the vast majority of the population watched the big 3 or Fox which only had a limited primetime schedule back then. Sometimes, people would record on the VCR; there were no DVR's, no On Demand, no online streaming.  Virtually all TV was broadcast and viewed right then and there.

So, when a series took off, EVERYONE watched it.  Back then, Thursday on NBC was known as 'Must See TV' and it was a juggernaut.  Seinfeld, Mad About You, Cosby, Cheers, Frasier, Friends, and a host of other sitcoms were huge in the 8-10 PM slot over the years, then, at 10 PM, NBC would have a prestigious drama.  It started with Hill Street Blues in the 80's followed by LA Law and, eventually, ER.  On that night, it was not unusual for the shows to get ratings in the 20's which meant that 20% or more of all homes with TV's in the US were watching NBC.  Nowadays, a top rated show might get 4 or 5% of viewers. 

Back in '94, ER was so huge, that people would have viewing parties and, on Fridays, the previous night's episode was the talk everywhere you went.  It is hard to describe how popular shows like ER were to those who are used to having so many more options for shows to watch and who can watch them virtually anytime.  If you missed ER, you didn't have much to talk about at work the next day, that's for sure.

I was practicing OB in '94.  The day after Love's Labor's Lost aired, no fewer than 6 pregnant patients brought it up during their prenatal visit; wanting me to promise that they wouldn't have to give birth in the ER.  People watched the show and took it to heart, like it was a documentary.  

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Claire85]

Must see TV. Good times, huh? I remember waiting a week in agony to see if Carter and Lucy survived. I’m not sure I knew ahead of time that Kellie was leaving the show. And then crying most of the way through “All in the Family”

[Rootbeer]

7 hours ago, Claire85 said:

Must see TV. Good times, huh? I remember waiting a week in agony to see if Carter and Lucy survived. I’m not sure I knew ahead of time that Kellie was leaving the show. And then crying most of the way through “All in the Family”

That's the other thing; there weren't many spoilers out there and even those of us who were big fans of these shows weren't actively seeking them out anyway.  I'd watched and loved the show from the start but had absolutely no forewarning about the stabbing, let alone that KM was leaving the show and Lucy was going to die.

Heck, back in Season 3, I remember being shocked when Susan got on the train and it pulled away in 'Union Station'.  I certainly didn't know SS was leaving for good; I don't recall any PR about her exit until after the episode aired.  We did know that GC was leaving, if only because he made it clear from the start that he was not going beyond the 5 years of his initial contract, and, after the show became a huge hit, virtually every other main cast member signed a huge deal for more seasons at a lot more money while George never did.

It was kinda fun to not know what was going to happen next and part of the reason that people made every effort to catch every episode.

[Cloud9Shopper]

19 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

That's the other thing; there weren't many spoilers out there and even those of us who were big fans of these shows weren't actively seeking them out anyway.  I'd watched and loved the show from the start but had absolutely no forewarning about the stabbing, let alone that KM was leaving the show and Lucy was going to die.

Heck, back in Season 3, I remember being shocked when Susan got on the train and it pulled away in 'Union Station'.  I certainly didn't know SS was leaving for good; I don't recall any PR about her exit until after the episode aired.  We did know that GC was leaving, if only because he made it clear from the start that he was not going beyond the 5 years of his initial contract, and, after the show became a huge hit, virtually every other main cast member signed a huge deal for more seasons at a lot more money while George never did.

It was kinda fun to not know what was going to happen next and part of the reason that people made every effort to catch every episode.

I remember back in the days I was a hardcore watcher (S6-S8) I would actively avoid spoilers and was a member of at least two message boards (TWOP and maybe a ProBoards—I think—that doesn’t exist anymore) and I’d always die laughing at the TWOP recaps and the nicknames TWOPers with more originality than me had for the characters. (Remember Cleobot and Vulcan Jen?)

By the time I discovered the show on Hulu in 2018, I didn’t really care about discovering what happened in later seasons before I could get there. I think I quit in S9 or S10 originally, so seeing some things that I had heard about (like the helicopter of death) was just as good or bad as I expected them to be.

It’s even more fun for me to get it better about some of the things the older fans went on about that I didn’t get when I was young. Like the female staff never having their hair up and/or always looking glam for their ER and OR shifts. Abby’s huge hair to start S14 and Neela’s full makeup and perfect hair by the end of the series come to mind, as was Lucy never having her hair back. Every female doc or PA I’ve seen in real life is wearing flats and keeps their hair neat and out of their face. No one shows up at the clinic with a perfect blowout and three-inch heels like late season ER female characters. 

 

 

[Rootbeer]

14 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I remember back in the days I was a hardcore watcher (S6-S8) I would actively avoid spoilers and was a member of at least two message boards (TWOP and maybe a ProBoards—I think—that doesn’t exist anymore) and I’d always die laughing at the TWOP recaps and the nicknames TWOPers with more originality than me had for the characters. (Remember Cleobot and Vulcan Jen?)

By the time I discovered the show on Hulu in 2018, I didn’t really care about discovering what happened in later seasons before I could get there. I think I quit in S9 or S10 originally, so seeing some things that I had heard about (like the helicopter of death) was just as good or bad as I expected them to be.

It’s even more fun for me to get it better about some of the things the older fans went on about that I didn’t get when I was young. Like the female staff never having their hair up and/or always looking glam for their ER and OR shifts. Abby’s huge hair to start S14 and Neela’s full makeup and perfect hair by the end of the series come to mind, as was Lucy never having her hair back. Every female doc or PA I’ve seen in real life is wearing flats and keeps their hair neat and out of their face. No one shows up at the clinic with a perfect blowout and three-inch heels like late season ER female characters. 

 

 

Over time, the show got even worse about that.  Watch Season 1, Carol is attractive in a very clean faced, minimal fuss way.  Her hair is almost always off her face and pulled back.  Even as early as Season 2, the transformation begins.  Her previously natural brows are now plucked and shaped.  She is wearing a noticeable amount of eye shadow, liner and mascara; a look more suited to a date than work.  Finally, she has taken to wearing deep red lipstick at work and it is always carefully applied; apparently, she never has a sip of coffee or eats lunch or needs to wear a mask for a procedure.

All of the hospital shows tend to show the female medical pros in ridiculous footwear. i remember watching an episode of New Amsterdam where a female doc was running down the hall in an emergency, trying to keep up with a male counterpart wearing scrubs and sneakers while wearing a form fitting knit dress that hit above her knee and 4 inch stilettos.  No bueno! Most hospitals and medical offices have poured concrete floors with no give to them.  Even the most dedicated fashionista would have a tough time wearing heels in that environment, especially in the ER where you're on your feet, walking up and down the halls, pushing carts and running to help in a crisis.  I remember one of the mods at TWOP complaining about the ugly shoes that Kerry and Chen were wearing in an episode while I thought they looked like the sort of shoes women working in that environment should be wearing.  I think Chen had some sort of Dansko like clogs while Kerry had some thick soled loafers.  Looked better to me than the high heeled pumps other shows thought looked real

[Cloud9Shopper]

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Over time, the show got even worse about that.  Watch Season 1, Carol is attractive in a very clean faced, minimal fuss way.  Her hair is almost always off her face and pulled back.  Even as early as Season 2, the transformation begins.  Her previously natural brows are now plucked and shaped.  She is wearing a noticeable amount of eye shadow, liner and mascara; a look more suited to a date than work.  Finally, she has taken to wearing deep red lipstick at work and it is always carefully applied; apparently, she never has a sip of coffee or eats lunch or needs to wear a mask for a procedure.

All of the hospital shows tend to show the female medical pros in ridiculous footwear. i remember watching an episode of New Amsterdam where a female doc was running down the hall in an emergency, trying to keep up with a male counterpart wearing scrubs and sneakers while wearing a form fitting knit dress that hit above her knee and 4 inch stilettos.  No bueno! Most hospitals and medical offices have poured concrete floors with no give to them.  Even the most dedicated fashionista would have a tough time wearing heels in that environment, especially in the ER where you're on your feet, walking up and down the halls, pushing carts and running to help in a crisis.  I remember one of the mods at TWOP complaining about the ugly shoes that Kerry and Chen were wearing in an episode while I thought they looked like the sort of shoes women working in that environment should be wearing.  I think Chen had some sort of Dansko like clogs while Kerry had some thick soled loafers.  Looked better to me than the high heeled pumps other shows thought looked real

I watch New Amsterdam so I know the character you’re talking about! And she always looks like that. My friend and I laugh about it all the time. My mom is a nurse and her scrubs for work are hardly fashionable, and she doesn’t spend tons of time before work getting glammed up. Minimal makeup and neat hair is all she needs. 

[RedbirdNelly]

back when the stabbing happened, I had heard that Kelly Martin was leaving--which annoyed me because it did make it likely she died. I wanted to not know that. But the show was so well done I started to think and perhaps she makes it (only to leave the show to go recover etc.) I hate it when I know an actor is leaving a show. 

Even with the glam described above, I generally praise ER for being more gritty than most dramas. People often looked less than ideal. Not everyone who was cast looked like a model. 

[debraran]

Chicago med is like a soap so having heels or extra long eye lashes to fall on someone is par for the course, but I thought New Amsterdam might be better. Not really.

I think ER thought they had to step it up a notch but it was fine. When I worked at a large teaching hospital no nurse wore anything but sneakers or "nurse shoes". Hair was back, in pony tail or hair band.  Some of that was common sense and some mandated by the rules of that floor or area. With all the puke and other bodily fluids spilled about, you tried to protect yourself  and heavy makeup didn't last a long shift usually.  I did know one podiatrist that wore very high heels in a private office but thought she always looked ridiculous.

I loved how the nurses in the beginning were tired, dirty at times, hair askew and realistic. It added to the realism that they had and still lead in that area in all the shows. MASH might have been that way too, they dared to be messy and still be sexy. It just doesn't work if you don't. Later when ER changed, it became all about sex to the point, the heart of the show was lost. Sad, they sold out to what they thought the people wanted but they missed the truth.

Edited September 16, 2021 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/9/2021 at 7:39 PM, Rootbeer said:

 And County would've had a dozen or more OB residents on site during the daytime and at least a few on call overnight.  No way they were 'too busy' to handle Jody who was far sicker than anyone on OB most likely.  

The show was always like that for everything, especially surgery. It was like they had 1 maybe 2 surgeons in the hospital at any given time and if someone needed an emergency surgery the options were for the ER doc to do open them up in the trauma room, or to wake up Old Man Anspaugh from home. Even though at any given time the ER had interns, senior residents and attendings working.

On 9/14/2021 at 2:35 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

And oh yeah. Chloe can’t go away fast enough. 

Chloe is annoying but at least they bothered to give Susan a storyline.

On 9/15/2021 at 6:18 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Like the female staff never having their hair up and/or always looking glam for their ER and OR shifts. Abby’s huge hair to start S14 and Neela’s full makeup and perfect hair by the end of the series come to mind, as was Lucy never having her hair back. Every female doc or PA I’ve seen in real life is wearing flats and keeps their hair neat and out of their face. No one shows up at the clinic with a perfect blowout and three-inch heels like late season ER female characters. 

The weird thing there is when that blonde intern showed up in I think Season 14 they commented on how her over doing her hair/makeup and clothes wouldn't work in the ER. But in reality she was hardly that much worse than the other examples you mentioned.

From the beginning though it kind of impresses me that they made one of their leads a middle aged bald dude with glasses. No medical show is doing that now.

14 hours ago, debraran said:

Later when ER changed, it became all about sex to the point, the heart of the show was lost. Sad, they sold out to what they thought the people wanted but they missed the truth.

I think the later seasons are still better than most current medical shows in that regard. Although Sam and Stamos having sex all through the hospital totally seemed like they were trying to compete with Grey's Anatomy.

 

 

[Cloud9Shopper]

10 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The show was always like that for everything, especially surgery. It was like they had 1 maybe 2 surgeons in the hospital at any given time and if someone needed an emergency surgery the options were for the ER doc to do open them up in the trauma room, or to wake up Old Man Anspaugh from home. Even though at any given time the ER had interns, senior residents and attendings working.

Chloe is annoying but at least they bothered to give Susan a storyline.

The weird thing there is when that blonde intern showed up in I think Season 14 they commented on how her over doing her hair/makeup and clothes wouldn't work in the ER. But in reality she was hardly that much worse than the other examples you mentioned.

From the beginning though it kind of impresses me that they made one of their leads a middle aged bald dude with glasses. No medical show is doing that now.

I think the later seasons are still better than most current medical shows in that regard. Although Sam and Stamos having sex all through the hospital totally seemed like they were trying to compete with Grey's Anatomy.

 

 

The blonde intern was S15. I was laughing when Banfield was sizing up the interns on her own first day and commented on the blonde’s heels and then ragged on Shiri Appleby’s character for coming to work with wet hair. 

Sam and Tony have to be one of the worst couples on the show. Of course I’ll give them that they were not the first couple to have sex in the ER but it was still a stupid plot point. Actually, most of S14 was a dumpster fire but that’s another discussion. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 9/15/2021 at 6:18 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Like the female staff never having their hair up and/or always looking glam for their ER and OR shifts. Abby’s huge hair to start S14 and Neela’s full makeup and perfect hair by the end of the series come to mind, as was Lucy never having her hair back. Every female doc or PA I’ve seen in real life is wearing flats and keeps their hair neat and out of their face. No one shows up at the clinic with a perfect blowout and three-inch heels like late season ER female characters. 

That one really annoyed me. When I started my rotations (I'm a doctor too), we got handbooks that practically ordered everyone with long hair to keep it pulled back and/or up. In fact, we were warned about that even when I started medical school period--try dissecting a cadaver with your hair in the way.

Loose hair can obscure your vision, get into a patient's open wound, get soiled by the numerous body fluids that can go flying at any minute, and worst of all, get grabbed onto by an agitated patient, something I learned the hard way.

.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Dr.OO7

[Rootbeer]

7 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

That one really annoyed me. When I started my rotations (I'm a doctor too), we got handbooks that practically ordered everyone with long hair to keep it pulled back and/or up. In fact, we were warned about that even when I started medical school period--try dissecting a cadaver with your hair in the way.

Loose hair can obscure your vision, get into a patient's open wound, get soiled by the numerous body fluids that can go flying at any minute, and worst of all, get grabbed onto by an agitated patient, something I learned the hard way.

.

I'm a staff attending employed by a major hospital system.  There is indeed a dress code for all employees, including medical staff.  Some of it is arbitrary stuff put in place by a former CEO that is generally ignored.  He hated jeans and anything denim and, even at night, called in for an emergency; members of the medical staff are not to wear jeans or anything made of denim while in public areas.  All docs are also supposed to wear socks or hose at all times, too.  That stuff is generally ignored, I cannot imagine anyone getting turned in to the wardrobe police for it.

However, the hair pulled back is just common sense.  Who wants to get icky stuff in their hair if it dragged through a wound or got vomit on it?  I had waist length hair the first two years of my residency and it was pulled back/pinned up 24/7 in the hospital.  Caregivers are constantly leaning over to start IV's do exams, operate; no way you want your hair in the way.  Also, long heavy hair will not stay up inside a paper scrub cap if it isn't otherwise contained.  

The woman on New Amsterdam is gorgeous with beautiful long braids; good thing she's not a surgeon because those would never stay tucked up inside a scrub cap as they are.  She also seems to wear them deliberately tossed over her shoulder to fall down her chest,  In real life, they'd be tangling in her stethoscope, falling onto the computer keyboard, obscuring her name badge (which she probably needs to get through doors and sign onto the computer) and otherwise getting in her way at work.  The women I work with who have long braided hairstyles pull them all back with a hair tie or barrette at work.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Rootbeer

[huggybear]

I'm doing a partial series rewatch. I think I bailed out from the series in real time after Carol left to go find Doug. I'm now in Season 14 and would just like to say that I hate almost everyone. Hate Abby, hate Luka, hate Sam, hate Gates.  Used to like Neela, hate her too now.  Morris at least provides a little humor at times. The only doctor I like is Pratt and from what I've heard he doesn't meet a happy end. 

I liked/enjoyed pretty much all of the original and earlier cast. Even Romano was written/acted well enough to be interesting. 

The one episode when Abby was supposed to be at rehab and Luka was in Croatia was incredibly refreshing. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

27 minutes ago, huggybear said:

I'm doing a partial series rewatch. I think I bailed out from the series in real time after Carol left to go find Doug. I'm now in Season 14 and would just like to say that I hate almost everyone. Hate Abby, hate Luka, hate Sam, hate Gates.  Used to like Neela, hate her too now.  Morris at least provides a little humor at times. The only doctor I like is Pratt and from what I've heard he doesn't meet a happy end. 

I liked/enjoyed pretty much all of the original and earlier cast. Even Romano was written/acted well enough to be interesting. 

The one episode when Abby was supposed to be at rehab and Luka was in Croatia was incredibly refreshing. 

Season 14 was rough. At least we get a Jeanie cameo that season. (Is that the episode you mean?) I don’t think outside that episode that I could ever watch most of S14 again. Who knew Coburn would be the character who came out of that season looking the best? 

[ESS]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Season 14 was rough. At least we get a Jeanie cameo that season. (Is that the episode you mean?) I don’t think outside that episode that I could ever watch most of S14 again. Who knew Coburn would be the character who came out of that season looking the best? 

Yes it was definitely rough for sure. Like you I can't even watch season 14 either and yes other than Jeanie returning(which was weird in itself for me as Kerry wasn't there for her when she asked) there's nothing really special or amazing about that season - at all for me. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Work is very slow right now, so I’m getting into the season 2 episodes of the podcast I’m listening to. God, I can’t believe it took me until now to realize how awful Shep was, even before The Healers! He seems so mad over the littlest things, and the way he begged Carol to be with him forever during the Christmas party was so cringe.  

I’m on the arc with Ruby now, and while I have limited interest in it, I always found it hard to believe that Carter claimed not to remember him in S11. I don’t think Ruby was helping himself by still holding a grudge at that point, but that was such a memorable situation for Carter that I wouldn’t believe he’d forget.

The antics the staff were pulling about Kerry’s arrival seem so petty now but I kind of laughed at the cake and the staff telling Mark it was Bob’s birthday. Also laughed at Carol singing 12 Days of Christmas by herself in recovery until the staff turned up. And Randi is here now so that’s fun! 

Oh and a few episodes ago Chloe was in diesel mechanic school. Good joke, show. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:48 AM, Rootbeer said:

However, the hair pulled back is just common sense.  Who wants to get icky stuff in their hair if it dragged through a wound or got vomit on it?  I had waist length hair the first two years of my residency and it was pulled back/pinned up 24/7 in the hospital.  Caregivers are constantly leaning over to start IV's do exams, operate; no way you want your hair in the way.  Also, long heavy hair will not stay up inside a paper scrub cap if it isn't otherwise contained.  

So women with long untied hair on this show made no sense but what about the male doctors wearing dress shirts and ties. A tie seems like it would be as much an annoyance if not more (since someone could grab it and choke you). The nice thing with Mark and Doug and I guess Pratt is that they almost always worse scrubs.

[Hiyo]

Doug wore dress shirts and pants more often in the earlier seasons. I seem to remember Pratt wearing the same more than he wore scrubs.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Morris started out in dress shirts and ties too but had switched to scrubs by S14 I feel like. (Or maybe the last season.)

[Rootbeer]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:23 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

So women with long untied hair on this show made no sense but what about the male doctors wearing dress shirts and ties. A tie seems like it would be as much an annoyance if not more (since someone could grab it and choke you). The nice thing with Mark and Doug and I guess Pratt is that they almost always worse scrubs.

Back at the time this show was filmed, the vast, vast majority of ER docs wore street clothes; dress shirts and ties for the men and typical office wear, pants or skirts and tops or a dress for the women.  At that time, ER nurses were just starting to wear scrubs at work and many would wear scrub dresses with white hose and nursing shoes like you see in old movies.  It is only in the past 20 years or so that scrub shirts became prevalent in the ER and, even now, some ER docs will work in their regular street clothes.  Male docs of all specialties are less likely to wear ties these days; most of the male docs I work with wear khakis and polo shirts or a button down shirt with no tie.  There are some senior docs who still wear dress pants, shirts and ties and often wear a suit coat to the office before putting on their white coat, but they are the minority.

ER docs in the hospital system where I practice wear same color polo shirts with the logo of the system as well as the name of the individual hospital where they work.  I believe it is their department policy on dress for work.  Men and women wear the polo with whatever bottoms they prefer, mostly chino type pants.  

My department doesn't have a specific policy on dress although there is some baloney in the handbook about professional appearance or some such.  Many docs wear scrubs in the office.  The only rule is that they cannot wear the same color blue was we wear in the OR or labor and delivery which I think is to prevent people from taking scrubs from the hospitals (doctors taking scrubs from the hospital?  Say it isn't so).  I have worked in the same office with one doc for 17 years and can count on both hands the number of times she has worn street clothes in the office.  It is sneakers and scrubs ever day; she is really cheap and I think is part of the reason the bosses stopped letting docs wear scrubs from the hospital in the office.  The other female doc and I, our PA and the nurse midwives who see patients in our office all wear street clothes.  I am almost always in sneakers these days, the others not as often.  I'm in practice 35+ years and have had a hip and a knee replaced, so I am not doing uncomfortable shoes.  I wear nice, but washable clothes, stuff you'd see in any office.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Cloud9Shopper]

Still reliving S2 via podcast and the second half of the season is when the show hits its stride for me personally. We got Hell and High Water in the first end, and in the second half we get one of my underrated favorites, Baby Shower! There’s also A Shift in the Night in that back half too. Some of the more filler and less memorable characters (Div, Vucelich) are gone and the background cast of Hicks, Morgenstern, and the ER nurses are solid. Once I get to S3 that’s when I really start to believe the show gets a “look” that could still hold up today. 

Thank God Chloe will be out of the picture soon, though. At least until that blah crossover in S8.

I’m excited to get back to S3! We get Abby Keaton, Doyle, Anspaugh, Anna….Susan leaves but we get that nice moment with Lydia and Al getting married in chairs which still makes me smile. The only things I hate about S3 are The Long Way Around and watching Mark get beat up in Random Acts. Gotta turn my head on that one. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

On S4 via podcast.

One of the things that surprises me about the newer generation of fans is just how hated Carter is today, how he’s called “arrogant” (especially after his rehab) and “a white savior.” Try as I might, I never saw the character that way. I always quite liked Carter and empathized with everything thrown his way as a series of unfortunate circumstances. I mean over the course of the show Chase ODs, he gets stabbed and has an addiction, his baby is stillborn and his grandmother’s funeral gets ruined. Given all that I can’t hate him! When I listen to the podcast it amazes me that the hosts seem to love shitting on characters like Mark and Carter. Did they have moments? Of course. But the early season crop headlined by those two, plus Doug and Carol, made the show. I just want to be like “have some respect and you kids get off my lawn.” 😂

I’m also surprised how popular the late seasons are with some of the new crop of fans. If you look up old message boards from the original airings of S12-14, there was plenty of chatter about the ratings being in the toilet and the show going downhill, so I’m always kind of baffled when someone says they gave up somewhere between S10-S13 and they get downvoted/disagreed with because us original fans are “just salty that their favorites left.” I think you can acknowledge that casts change (SVU has been on 23 years with its share of cast changes and a lot of fans would agree it’s no longer as good as it used to be) but also hate the direction they took the show in. I listen to the early seasons and hear fun moments like happy-go-lucky Morgenstern after his heart attack, the ER banquet, and the girls’ night at Elizabeth’s, plus all-time great episodes like Love’s Labor Lost and Exodus, and I hate knowing all that fun and camaraderie fades away in the late years. How many legendary episodes really came out of the series once Carter left anyway?

[Hiyo]

I liked Carter but there were many, many times where I just found him to be so damn irritating. Even before he went into rehab. And I say this as an original fan of the show.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Hiyo

[ESS]

13 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

On S4 via podcast.

One of the things that surprises me about the newer generation of fans is just how hated Carter is today, how he’s called “arrogant” (especially after his rehab) and “a white savior.” Try as I might, I never saw the character that way. I always quite liked Carter and empathized with everything thrown his way as a series of unfortunate circumstances. I mean over the course of the show Chase ODs, he gets stabbed and has an addiction, his baby is stillborn and his grandmother’s funeral gets ruined. Given all that I can’t hate him! When I listen to the podcast it amazes me that the hosts seem to love shitting on characters like Mark and Carter. Did they have moments? Of course. But the early season crop headlined by those two, plus Doug and Carol, made the show. I just want to be like “have some respect and you kids get off my lawn.” 😂

I’m also surprised how popular the late seasons are with some of the new crop of fans. If you look up old message boards from the original airings of S12-14, there was plenty of chatter about the ratings being in the toilet and the show going downhill, so I’m always kind of baffled when someone says they gave up somewhere between S10-S13 and they get downvoted/disagreed with because us original fans are “just salty that their favorites left.” I think you can acknowledge that casts change (SVU has been on 23 years with its share of cast changes and a lot of fans would agree it’s no longer as good as it used to be) but also hate the direction they took the show in. I listen to the early seasons and hear fun moments like happy-go-lucky Morgenstern after his heart attack, the ER banquet, and the girls’ night at Elizabeth’s, plus all-time great episodes like Love’s Labor Lost and Exodus, and I hate knowing all that fun and camaraderie fades away in the late years. How many legendary episodes really came out of the series once Carter left anyway?

The later seasons for me are definitely NOT my favorites at all. I loved the earlier years myself [1 to 8]. but seasons 10-13 have some good episodes, of course season 14 being the worst for me and season 15 really rebounded, but my point is I definitely am the opposite and I agree it's definitely bizarre at how the later seasons get all this hype which I don't agree with that, but just my opinion. 

All of the characters had their flaws, but why bash certain characters for? makes no sense. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by ESS

[Claire85]

I also found Carter annoying sometimes (listen to Lucy about Sobricki, you idiot!) but mostly endearing and adorable. He was so earnest when he was younger. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Claire85 said:

I also found Carter annoying sometimes (listen to Lucy about Sobricki, you idiot!) but mostly endearing and adorable. He was so earnest when he was younger. 

I really do think he had good intentions more often than not and wanted to be a good doctor and make a difference. 

Also, random tangent connected to Carter, I loved his Gamma too. When the podcast hosts said Frances Sternhagen, who played her, is still alive at 91 years old, I was just delighted. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, ESS said:

The later seasons for me are definitely NOT my favorites at all. I loved the earlier years myself [1 to 8]. but seasons 10-13 have some good episodes, of course season 14 being the worst for me and season 15 really rebounding, but my point is I definitely am the opposite and I agree it's definitely bizarre at how the later seasons get all this hype which I don't agree with that, but just my opinion. 

All of the characters had their flaws, but why bash certain characters for? makes no sense. 

I could have written this post, except I think sustained goodness stopped even sooner. I think Season 6 was the cut off. Then, the show became just constant misery for eons. Some good episodes mixed in, as you said, but the glory days were done. Season 15 really was a rebound, and I don't think it is a coincidence that the classic characters returning for visits was a big reason for that.

[Cloud9Shopper]

46 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I could have written this post, except I think sustained goodness stopped even sooner. I think Season 6 was the cut off. Then, the show became just constant misery for eons. Some good episodes mixed in, as you said, but the glory days were done. Season 15 really was a rebound, and I don't think it is a coincidence that the classic characters returning for visits was a big reason for that.

I think the first part of S15 was pretty average except for Heal Thyself and Life After Death, though of course YMMV. I think it picked up around Let it Snow (15x9), and while the Dream Runner episode with Neela’s day four different times was stupid (and a waste of a cameo for Elizabeth), I thought the second half of S15 overall felt more like the show I started watching in high school. I always tell the younger fans that nostalgia is a hell of a drug because I remember watching TNT reruns on snow days and in the summer, being on message boards in the early aughts, and really getting attached to the first generation cast and characters.

As New Amsterdam is now off the rails, I’m still trying to find another medical show I enjoy like ER. I quit Chicago Med not even one full season in, although I did laugh in the pilot when they made a brief reference to a patient maybe having been sent to County. 

[debraran]

11 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I think the first part of S15 was pretty average except for Heal Thyself and Life After Death, though of course YMMV. I think it picked up around Let it Snow (15x9), and while the Dream Runner episode with Neela’s day four different times was stupid (and a waste of a cameo for Elizabeth), I thought the second half of S15 overall felt more like the show I started watching in high school. I always tell the younger fans that nostalgia is a hell of a drug because I remember watching TNT reruns on snow days and in the summer, being on message boards in the early aughts, and really getting attached to the first generation cast and characters.

As New Amsterdam is now off the rails, I’m still trying to find another medical show I enjoy like ER. I quit Chicago Med not even one full season in, although I did laugh in the pilot when they made a brief reference to a patient maybe having been sent to County. 

I'm sad, I feel the same, NA is not what I thought the first year, it's like a bad soap now and C Med IS a soap, I just can't watch it. I find everyone but the shrink and CEO annoying. I'd rather watch ER reruns. My sister liked The Resident but I haven't tried watching it yet.

[ESS]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I could have written this post, except I think sustained goodness stopped even sooner. I think Season 6 was the cut off. Then, the show became just constant misery for eons. Some good episodes mixed in, as you said, but the glory days were done. Season 15 really was a rebound, and I don't think it is a coincidence that the classic characters returning for visits was a big reason for that.

Well actually now that I think about you do have a point about seasons 7 & 8 they were definitely sad and draining and ER definitely lost something there after Mark died.(and Anthony left)  

[RedbirdNelly]

ER reruns still meet any medical show I've found but I will say Chicago Med is better this season--waiting for that to end but they added some new cast and so far much better.

I always liked Carter. Was he perfect, no, but he was a good guy. His relationship with Benton is one of my favorites of the show.

[Dr.OO7]

Happy 22nd Birthday, Tess & Kate!