Untreatable: Unpopular Opinions

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Currently on S14, and I have to say even after all these years I still don't get the Abby love. I just do not like her. I was kind of expecting to when I watched the show as an adult (compared to when I was a teenager during its heyday and didn't understand her family's issues or her alcoholism to a full extent), and I think she had some sweet moments, like as an OB nurse or supporting Kerry after Sandy's death. But overall, I'm just not into her character. I can empathize with how hard it must have been for her to deal with Joe when Luka was gone, but I can't say my adult self ships them like I did when I was younger. I just don't get what either Carter or Luka saw in Abby, and Carter was smart to get out of Dodge not long after her brother fell into Gamma's grave. I felt bad for Carter in that episode; Abby not so much. Watching that episode last year solidified it with me that I just...do not like her. I sort of wish she had stayed an OB nurse or become an OB and limited to guest appearances or a more supporting role rather than being shoved front and center. I'm in the middle of her relapse storyline and don't feel I'm going to come out on Team Abby at the end of it. 

I can certainly feel empathy with Abby that she's struggling so much with Joe while Luka is gone and I can see why she spiraled. But the love just isn't there. 

I also feel Elizabeth got a raw deal and could understand her agony. I liked her a lot and it was a bummer when her exit was just kind of like...well OK I'm leaving now. She was so strong-willed and a great surgeon (and had a great sense of humor) before she had to deal with Rachel being back and Mark's tumor. 

 

 

 

I can see why Abby found it hard to manage an infant and a residency without a partner, but her lack of understanding and empathy for Luka's situation was appalling.  He's a guy who already lost his family once, he finds out his beloved father is dying and he decides to go to Croatia to spend some time with him and Abby acts like he is on a world cruise with a bunch of showgirls, boozing it up.  She had plenty of friends in the ER, an AA sponsor in Coburn and a lot of other support available to her.  For that matter, unlike most residents, her husband was a full fledged ER attending making well into 6 figures annually.  There is no reason she couldn't have found help with childcare.  

Of course, ER did the same with Mark and Elizabeth, passing their small infant around the hospital like a pack of chicklets when both of them were attendings and could easily afford full time childcare in their home; a luxury that most parents cannot afford.

[Cloud9Shopper]

17 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I can see why Abby found it hard to manage an infant and a residency without a partner, but her lack of understanding and empathy for Luka's situation was appalling.  He's a guy who already lost his family once, he finds out his beloved father is dying and he decides to go to Croatia to spend some time with him and Abby acts like he is on a world cruise with a bunch of showgirls, boozing it up.  She had plenty of friends in the ER, an AA sponsor in Coburn and a lot of other support available to her.  For that matter, unlike most residents, her husband was a full fledged ER attending making well into 6 figures annually.  There is no reason she couldn't have found help with childcare.  

Of course, ER did the same with Mark and Elizabeth, passing their small infant around the hospital like a pack of chicklets when both of them were attendings and could easily afford full time childcare in their home; a luxury that most parents cannot afford.

Did Abby even seem to want the help? Even at various points in the series before her relapse, she never seemed to want to be loved and supported. There was the aforementioned incident at Gamma's funeral where she acted all dumb about not knowing Eric would do what he did, not to mention she pretended she was the only one who could fix Maggie and Eric, darned the psychiatrists and other counselors when Abby wasn't even an MD yet. She didn't seem to want to marry Luka that much, as evidenced by her saying "oh I don't need the ring" and being all edgy. (Although to be fair, Luka should have known Abby wasn't the type who would be happy about a surprise wedding. Why not just go to the courthouse like Reggie and Jeanie did back in the day...gosh I love that moment with the UPS man being the witness...Like how did Luka get to the point of wanting to marry her and not pick up on this?) Also, as someone else mentioned in the all episodes thread, she did seem to get off easy after she was drunk at work, especially given what Carter went through in Mayday/S7. Yes Abby went to rehab, and that's fine, but she didn't have to be under supervision when she came back. She escaped any consequences at work whatsoever for treating a patient drunk. She got an amazing job offer not long after, unlike Carter, who had his chief resident application pulled. 

I'm looking forward to watching Owner of a Broken Heart soon, only because I can't wait to see how much I cringe at it. I've seen some clips of the episode and read the synopsis/spoilers from its original airing, and from what I can see, Abby talks about going back to Croatia like she's me discussing how I'm putting off buying more Swiffer pads and mopping my floor. ("I'm going this time!"). And I think it's especially hilarious that Luka is going to make some big to-do about yelling at Coburn about her life and her mistakes when it appears she's the one who admits to be flawed and that her family life isn't perfect, but she (from what I can gather) is the one who seems to have her shit together and understand her disease. Luka is coming out of left field and acting like he and Abby's marriage is the happiest place on Earth and Abby is totally on top of all her problems. Like, shut up Luka. I hope Coburn drop kicks you into the ambulance bay.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Did Abby even seem to want the help? Even at various points in the series before her relapse, she never seemed to want to be loved and supported. There was the aforementioned incident at Gamma's funeral where she acted all dumb about not knowing Eric would do what he did, not to mention she pretended she was the only one who could fix Maggie and Eric, darned the psychiatrists and other counselors when Abby wasn't even an MD yet. She didn't seem to want to marry Luka that much, as evidenced by her saying "oh I don't need the ring" and being all edgy. (Although to be fair, Luka should have known Abby wasn't the type who would be happy about a surprise wedding. Why not just go to the courthouse like Reggie and Jeanie did back in the day...gosh I love that moment with the UPS man being the witness...Like how did Luka get to the point of wanting to marry her and not pick up on this?) Also, as someone else mentioned in the all episodes thread, she did seem to get off easy after she was drunk at work, especially given what Carter went through in Mayday/S7. Yes Abby went to rehab, and that's fine, but she didn't have to be under supervision when she came back. She escaped any consequences at work whatsoever for treating a patient drunk. She got an amazing job offer not long after, unlike Carter, who had his chief resident application pulled. 

I'm looking forward to watching Owner of a Broken Heart soon, only because I can't wait to see how much I cringe at it. I've seen some clips of the episode and read the synopsis/spoilers from its original airing, and from what I can see, Abby talks about going back to Croatia like she's me discussing how I'm putting off buying more Swiffer pads and mopping my floor. ("I'm going this time!"). And I think it's especially hilarious that Luka is going to make some big to-do about yelling at Coburn about her life and her mistakes when it appears she's the one who admits to be flawed and that her family life isn't perfect, but she (from what I can gather) is the one who seems to have her shit together and understand her disease. Luka is coming out of left field and acting like he and Abby's marriage is the happiest place on Earth and Abby is totally on top of all her problems. Like, shut up Luka. I hope Coburn drop kicks you into the ambulance bay.

That is one of my main issues with the Abby character: she whines and moans and complains about how hard her life is, how no one can help her, how everything is up to her, and, then, time and time again, she refuses any help that is offered and repeatedly fails to use simple common sense when it comes to managing things on her own.  There was no reason for her to fly out west to bring Maggie back to Chicago herself by car; there were literally a dozen other options that made far more sense; but, I got the feeling I was supposed to feel sorry for poor, sad, long suffering Abby when her stupid idea nearly resulted in the death of her mother.  Same thing when Abby decided that bringing her floridly manic, unmedicated, brother to the funeral of her boyfriend's beloved grandmother.  Or, when she went to work drunk and nearly killed a patient, or went out with colleagues and fell into bed with her boss or got so drunk she passed out on the sofa almost immediately after bringing her concussed toddler home from the ER,  When someone refuses the help of others while repeatedly making really disastrous decisions on their own, I have no sympathy.  Abby has very little common sense and very poor instincts; she brings her calamities on herself.  She never wised up, either.

As Sally Field would say, 'Stupid is as stupid does'.

[Cloud9Shopper]

24 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

That is one of my main issues with the Abby character: she whines and moans and complains about how hard her life is, how no one can help her, how everything is up to her, and, then, time and time again, she refuses any help that is offered and repeatedly fails to use simple common sense when it comes to managing things on her own.  There was no reason for her to fly out west to bring Maggie back to Chicago herself by car; there were literally a dozen other options that made far more sense; but, I got the feeling I was supposed to feel sorry for poor, sad, long suffering Abby when her stupid idea nearly resulted in the death of her mother.  Same thing when Abby decided that bringing her floridly manic, unmedicated, brother to the funeral of her boyfriend's beloved grandmother.  Or, when she went to work drunk and nearly killed a patient, or went out with colleagues and fell into bed with her boss or got so drunk she passed out on the sofa almost immediately after bringing her concussed toddler home from the ER,  When someone refuses the help of others while repeatedly making really disastrous decisions on their own, I have no sympathy.  Abby has very little common sense and very poor instincts; she brings her calamities on herself.  She never wised up, either.

As Sally Field would say, 'Stupid is as stupid does'.

My mom works with addicts. I've heard very similar stories from her about people who don't want to help themselves. For the clients that she grows attached to and who actually feel remorse about their behavior and are very nice to her and her coworkers, she has just as many stories of real-life Abby types who throw attitude around the entire time they're in rehab, want to leave AMA or are more worried about going out to smoke, and have this whole complex that they were forced there and spend their time dramatizing everything. I don't know how my mom does it. I'd be around the bend, which is why I'm a "non essential" office monkey not working anywhere near the healthcare field and enjoy learning from the real medical pros on this sub and others what was realistic in ER and what was far-fetched. 

I think a lot of Abby fans find her relatable or whatever and like how real she is with her family issues. But I think the praise of her goes wayyyy too far. I'm on the ER Reddit too, and I saw a post this morning saying how Abby never made a wrong diagnosis or mistake and was a brilliant doctor. OK, I'll just forget the time she said she came to work drunk. Or the time in Sand and Water where she bailed on her OB patient to go work in the ER, as if there were no OBs in the whole hospital that could have gone downstairs. Abby wasn't even in medical school at that point because her tuition wasn't paid; it's beyond me why she was called away from her OB SHIFT when she was a nurse to help an ER patient.  

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

My mom works with addicts. I've heard very similar stories from her about people who don't want to help themselves. For the clients that she grows attached to and who actually feel remorse about their behavior and are very nice to her and her coworkers, she has just as many stories of real-life Abby types who throw attitude around the entire time they're in rehab, want to leave AMA or are more worried about going out to smoke, and have this whole complex that they were forced there and spend their time dramatizing everything. I don't know how my mom does it. I'd be around the bend, which is why I'm a "non essential" office monkey not working anywhere near the healthcare field and enjoy learning from the real medical pros on this sub and others what was realistic in ER and what was far-fetched. 

I think a lot of Abby fans find her relatable or whatever and like how real she is with her family issues. But I think the praise of her goes wayyyy too far. I'm on the ER Reddit too, and I saw a post this morning saying how Abby never made a wrong diagnosis or mistake and was a brilliant doctor. OK, I'll just forget the time she said she came to work drunk. Or the time in Sand and Water where she bailed on her OB patient to go work in the ER, as if there were no OBs in the whole hospital that could have gone downstairs. Abby wasn't even in medical school at that point because her tuition wasn't paid; it's beyond me why she was called away from her OB SHIFT when she was a nurse to help an ER patient.  

It's beyond me why an obstetric patient and her non-viable premature baby were kept down in the ER for hours and hours, taking up valuable bed space.  Or, how Abby, an OB nurse who surely has cared for women and families in similar circumstances and would've also  received training in helping mothers and families to cope with their loss; would think it would be a horrible insult to take the patient up to the OB floor where there are rooms and personnel set up to handle just that situation.  Of course, in the episode, they also showed the staff neonatologist heartlessly discussing the baby's condition to med students with the parents sitting right there.  Because neonatologists go into the specialty to treat sick babies like lab experiments.  More burnishing of Abby's rep as the bestest, kindest, most understanding and capable medical care provider on the show.

As far as Abby's mistakes, how about the many, many times she ignored her patients and their best interests and bullied them and her coworkers into doing things her way despite the fact that there were multiple better options?  Her refusal to allow the Sand and Water family to receive care in the area designed for them is just one.  There was an episode where an elderly man with chronic lung disease was brought to the ER with smoke inhalation after a fire.  Abby, just a medical student, decided that the guy should be intubated and sent to ICU for heroic measures and convinced his wife to consent.  It wasn't until she finally told Carter, her supervising resident, about her harebrained scheme, that he stepped in and explained to the wife what would really happen if her husband were intubated and that he was never going to get off the ventilator that the poor woman finally got an honest assessment as to her husband's condition. 

Or the time her old med school instructor came into the ER with pneumonia on top of ALS and a living will that specifically stated he did not want a tracheostomy or intubation.  Once again, Abby, who hasn't seen the guy in years and has absolutely no knowledge of his personal life, decides he is wrong and must have a tracheostomy and, once he is not responsive due to lack of oxygen; slaps a trach in without regard to what he himself had told her just minutes earlier.  She did this, of course, after shoving Ray, the original resident assigned to the guy, out of the way to take over the case.  And then, got her then f***buddy, Luka, to approve the theft.

That doesn't even begin to cover the many times that Abby tried to get her mother locked up and the key thrown away despite the fact that it wasn't medically in Maggie's best interest.  There was, to me, something very punitive in Abby's reactions to her mother and brother.  She really resented that they had messy lives and wanted to make sure they suffered for it, IMO.

Or the time Abby decided that a young mother with many kids who was pregnant again needed an emergency abortion so she could hide it from her husband who apparently objected on moral grounds.  All the while, the woman was expressing doubts and hesitation as to whether she should terminate or not.  Finally, the husband arrives, figures out what happened and then takes his wife home after she informs Abby that she cannot wait to get pregnant again ASAP.  Staying out of other people's personal lives is kinda important if you want to be a good doctor.

As far as Abby being such a brilliant physician, she flunked her boards!  It happens, even to perfectly decent docs, but there is no way someone with the stellar skills that Abby supposedly had would be unable to pass a rather straightforward exam.

Edited April 2, 2021 by doodlebug

[Cloud9Shopper]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:29 PM, doodlebug said:

It's beyond me why an obstetric patient and her non-viable premature baby were kept down in the ER for hours and hours, taking up valuable bed space.  Or, how Abby, an OB nurse who surely has cared for women and families in similar circumstances and would've also  received training in helping mothers and families to cope with their loss; would think it would be a horrible insult to take the patient up to the OB floor where there are rooms and personnel set up to handle just that situation.  Of course, in the episode, they also showed the staff neonatologist heartlessly discussing the baby's condition to med students with the parents sitting right there.  Because neonatologists go into the specialty to treat sick babies like lab experiments.  More burnishing of Abby's rep as the bestest, kindest, most understanding and capable medical care provider on the show.

As far as Abby's mistakes, how about the many, many times she ignored her patients and their best interests and bullied them and her coworkers into doing things her way despite the fact that there were multiple better options?  Her refusal to allow the Sand and Water family to receive care in the area designed for them is just one.  There was an episode where an elderly man with chronic lung disease was brought to the ER with smoke inhalation after a fire.  Abby, just a medical student, decided that the guy should be intubated and sent to ICU for heroic measures and convinced his wife to consent.  It wasn't until she finally told Carter, her supervising resident, about her harebrained scheme, that he stepped in and explained to the wife what would really happen if her husband were intubated and that he was never going to get off the ventilator that the poor woman finally got an honest assessment as to her husband's condition. 

Or the time her old med school instructor came into the ER with pneumonia on top of ALS and a living will that specifically stated he did not want a tracheostomy or intubation.  Once again, Abby, who hasn't seen the guy in years and has absolutely no knowledge of his personal life, decides he is wrong and must have a tracheostomy and, once he is not responsive due to lack of oxygen; slaps a trach in without regard to what he himself had told her just minutes earlier.  She did this, of course, after shoving Ray, the original resident assigned to the guy, out of the way to take over the case.  And then, got her then f***buddy, Luka, to approve the theft.

That doesn't even begin to cover the many times that Abby tried to get her mother locked up and the key thrown away despite the fact that it wasn't medically in Maggie's best interest.  There was, to me, something very punitive in Abby's reactions to her mother and brother.  She really resented that they had messy lives and wanted to make sure they suffered for it, IMO.

Or the time Abby decided that a young mother with many kids who was pregnant again needed an emergency abortion so she could hide it from her husband who apparently objected on moral grounds.  All the while, the woman was expressing doubts and hesitation as to whether she should terminate or not.  Finally, the husband arrives, figures out what happened and then takes his wife home after she informs Abby that she cannot wait to get pregnant again ASAP.  Staying out of other people's personal lives is kinda important if you want to be a good doctor.

As far as Abby being such a brilliant physician, she flunked her boards!  It happens, even to perfectly decent docs, but there is no way someone with the stellar skills that Abby supposedly had would be unable to pass a rather straightforward exam.

Doodlebug, I just realized it was you that made the post I was referring to about how easy Abby got off after her rehab. I went back and looked haha. So glad I have an Abby-loathing soulmate on this board! I just need to hurry up and get to the end of the series already LOL.

[RedbirdNelly]

I clicked on her here to see what the more recent unpopular opinion was and actually thought to myself "it can't be about hating Abby since no one likes her. " Turns out I was wrong. 🙂 A truly unpopular opinion would be an essay on how Abby actually was great. There was definitely too much Abby and too much debby downer stuff about Abby. If they had dialed it back, I would be a fan of this imperfect character. Alas it was not meant to be.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I clicked on her here to see what the more recent unpopular opinion was and actually thought to myself "it can't be about hating Abby since no one likes her. " Turns out I was wrong. 🙂 A truly unpopular opinion would be an essay on how Abby actually was great. There was definitely too much Abby and too much debby downer stuff about Abby. If they had dialed it back, I would be a fan of this imperfect character. Alas it was not meant to be.

I agree! I don’t think I would have disliked Abby so much if she weren’t such the main star of the show. I liked OB nurse Abby, and as I said, I think she did a great job with Kerry after Sandy died and when Kerry miscarried when she tried be the pregnant one. 

I suppose I just felt like I had an unpopular opinion and there were more who are fans of her than who dislike her. 🙂 But I have found my company here! Such a relief. I feel like everyone else on other ER forums I belonged to thought she was the bee’s knees. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I clicked on her here to see what the more recent unpopular opinion was and actually thought to myself "it can't be about hating Abby since no one likes her. " Turns out I was wrong. 🙂 A truly unpopular opinion would be an essay on how Abby actually was great. There was definitely too much Abby and too much debby downer stuff about Abby. If they had dialed it back, I would be a fan of this imperfect character. Alas it was not meant to be.

This is one of the very few places I've been where disliking the character of Abby was the popular opinion.  Back when the show was still running, there were probably 3 or 4 defenders for every one of us who criticized her.  There were people who excused everything she ever did, no matter what.  Even I, with my longstanding dislike of her character, did have some circumstances where I found her tolerable or even liked her.  The Abby fans would never admit that she was wrong to get drunk while working or cheat on her husband or neglect her baby.  It was kinda surreal; all of the blame was on Luka, for going to visit his sick father and not understanding that she could not possibly manage without him babysitting her every minute of the day and night.

Edited April 5, 2021 by doodlebug

[RedbirdNelly]

this is my only ER outlet site so I have trouble picturing these pro-Abby groups! I liked her fine as an OB nurse and I think she could have been good in small doses, not to mention the "winding things down and we're out of good story lines" writing. I liked her early on when her ex messed up her tuition situation--felt for her then. But it went off the rails pretty soon. I know I had read on here about how Abby can do know wrong--and then I watched some mass casualty episode where she is still a first year resident or something and everyone is coming to her for advice--including other first year residents. It really was over the top and I completely got the annoyance about her weird, super doctor abilities.

[Danny Franks]

I'd have thought Abby was popular more with the casual audience - those who watched each week but didn't really pay attention to ongoing storylines or invest too much in the characters.

A sort of 'Abby is a main character of this show I like, so I like Abby' thing. 

I do think she started off fine, but around the mid-point of season seven she started to get really annoying. The whole love triangle with Luka and Carter, then with Carter and Susan, then the terribly written relationship with Carter and all the 'woe-is-me, my family are the worst' drama that threatened to eat the show almost as much as Sally Field ate the scenery.

I stopped watching when Carter left, but from what I've heard, Abby just got more and more prominent because all the established characters were leaving and Maura Tierney was winning some awards.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Not sure how unpopular this is, but I ended up appreciating Kerry more on my rewatch. She does do a lot of things I don’t agree with or like, but I guess some time in the working world myself helped me understand why she went against Mark when Romano was being named Chief of Staff. Kerry says to Mark (paraphrased) that she was sorry and knew their agreement but it was obvious Robert was going to get the job no matter what she and Mark said. I hate office politics as much as everyone else does and have found myself in situations that I have to go along with just to get along. Sucks but it’s the way the world is. 
 

Another time I really appreciated Kerry was when in Random Acts when she clearly cared for Mark but was hell bent on not turning his trauma into a peep show for the staff gossip. I could understand why everyone wanted to get into the room and see Mark, but Kerry stayed firm and reminded everyone that the hospital had to keep going. Laura Innes did a hell of a job at portraying raw emotion on Kerry’s face too when it was needed. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:59 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

but I guess some time in the working world myself helped me understand why she went against Mark when Romano was being named Chief of Staff. Kerry says to Mark (paraphrased) that she was sorry and knew their agreement but it was obvious Robert was going to get the job no matter what she and Mark said. I hate office politics as much as everyone else does and have found myself in situations that I have to go along with just to get along. Sucks but it’s the way the world is.

Technically, I get that, but it's the crappy way she did it that annoyed me. She literally dropped what she was doing to find Mark and go on and on about how they had to fight Romano's appointment, then sat there and let Mark talk and essentially embarrass himself before doing a 180° and suddenly declaring that she thought Romano would be a wonderful chief of staff. And she didn't do that because she knew there was no point in fighting, she did that because she saw the chance to finally become ER Chief and she didn't care if she had to backstab Mark to do it.

On 4/13/2021 at 2:59 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Another time I really appreciated Kerry was when in Random Acts when she clearly cared for Mark but was hell bent on not turning his trauma into a peep show for the staff gossip. I could understand why everyone wanted to get into the room and see Mark, but Kerry stayed firm and reminded everyone that the hospital had to keep going. Laura Innes did a hell of a job at portraying raw emotion on Kerry’s face too when it was needed. 

I also liked when Doug brought his one night stand in with an overdose and Kerry, despite her own distaste, quietly shut down those who were gossiping about it --"It 's none of our business. "

Edited April 20, 2021 by Dr.OO7

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Technically, I get that, but it's the crappy way she did it that annoyed me. She literally dropped what she was doing to find Mark and go on and on about how they had to fight Romano's appointment, then sat there and let Mark talk and essentially embarrass himself before doing a 180° and suddenly declaring that she thought Romano would be a wonderful chief of staff. And she didn't do that because she knew there was no point in fighting, she did that because she saw the chance to finally become WE Chief and she didn't care if she had to backstab Mark to do it.I

I also liked when Doug brought his one night stand in with an overdose and Kerry, despite her own distaste, quietly shut down those who were gossiping about it --"It 's none of our business. "

Another good moment for Kerry was in ‘All in the Family’ when, after finding Carter and Lucy’, she snapped into action, running the trauma, issuing orders and doing what needed to be done.  Then, once they were both transferred to surgery; rushing outside to puke in a trash can.  Whatever her flaws, Kerry kicked as* as an ER doc.

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Another good moment for Kerry was in ‘All in the Family’ when, after finding Carter and Lucy’, she snapped into action, running the trauma, issuing orders and doing what needed to be done.  Then, once they were both transferred to surgery; rushing outside to puke in a trash can.  Whatever her flaws, Kerry kicked as* as an ER doc.

Kerry was great with the Deaf, epileptic girl, too. 

[RedbirdNelly]

Kerry was a great character. Had good qualities but then had that innate Kerry-ness that kept you from 100% liking her. A classic is when Carter moves in with her and he notices her CD collection. The conversation sounds like she is about to say "feel free to listen. . ." but instead she says he needs to ask permission first and she had to make that a rule. . .and then she kicks him out with short notice when she becomes chief. Classic Kerry.

[Danny Franks]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:48 PM, doodlebug said:

Another good moment for Kerry was in ‘All in the Family’ when, after finding Carter and Lucy’, she snapped into action, running the trauma, issuing orders and doing what needed to be done.  Then, once they were both transferred to surgery; rushing outside to puke in a trash can.  Whatever her flaws, Kerry kicked as* as an ER doc.

I don't think I ever liked Kerry more than in that episode. She's so great at being professional and not losing her focus, while still clearly suffering from shock and the horror of having to work on her colleagues. The pause to steady herself before using the sternal saw, the desperation in her voice when she asks Mark to please tell her that he saw Sobriki, it's all really great acting by Laura Innes.

I also always liked that Kerry and Carter had quite a good relationship - better than she had with most other doctors who worked in that place. Obviously, Carter had his undying search for a maternal figure, which surely helped him warm to Kerry, but it was a nice wrinkle in the show that felt very natural.

Was it Benton who knew Kerry before she started at County, and spoke highly of her? It figures that the two of them would respect one another on a professional level, and accept that personalities don't need to be a factor in the workplace.

[Bastet]

Kerry is one of my favorite characters (Elizabeth, Kerry, Carter, and Benton are my favorites, and which order they go in depends on my mood, but Elizabeth is often at the top).  Which doesn't mean I agreed with everything she did - although I was on her side in a number of disagreements with the characters we're supposed to root for - but I found her interesting and I generally understood why she was doing whatever she was doing, even if I didn't like it. 

50 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

The pause to steady herself before using the sternal saw,

There is such wonderful face acting going on in that moment, because Kerry has been obsessed with that damn saw, and the this isn't how I wanted to get to use it thought is written all over Laura Innes's face.

[Cloud9Shopper]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Kerry is one of my favorite characters (Elizabeth, Kerry, Carter, and Benton are my favorites, and which order they go in depends on my mood, but Elizabeth is often at the top).  Which doesn't mean I agreed with everything she did - although I was on her side in a number of disagreements with the characters we're supposed to root for - but I found her interesting and I generally understood why she was doing whatever she was doing, even if I didn't like it. 

There is such wonderful face acting going on in that moment, because Kerry has been obsessed with that damn saw, and the this isn't how I wanted to get to use it thought is written all over Laura Innes's face.

I just wanted to add that I love Elizabeth too! I wish she hadn’t gotten such dreadful storylines, because I even thought she and Mark were fine together. The writers just tormented them with the tumor and devil Rachel and Ella’s OD. 

[Heathen]

On 4/25/2021 at 5:10 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I just wanted to add that I love Elizabeth too! I wish she hadn’t gotten such dreadful storylines, because I even thought she and Mark were fine together. The writers just tormented them with the tumor and devil Rachel and Ella’s OD. 

Elizabeth and Mark were great together until the beginning of season eight. Elizabeth was a caricature after that. 

[kiddo82]

I'm rewatching season 1 and I find myself more often than not siding with Peter.  Not so much with the family situation, I am team Jackie there although I can see Peter's dilemma with putting his mom in a facility, but with his less than stellar attitude.  Don't get me wrong he's arrogant, but the man is there to do a job and he does it.  I just watched Sleepless in Chicago and Carter wants to spend his time reading to a gentleman dying of terminal cancer.  I'm not knocking Carter for wanting to be there for this man, I'm not.  However, Carter is there to train and quite frankly, something like that is not sustainable when Carter is supposed to actually be on the floor working.  He could have easily endorsed it to a nurse, a volunteer, or pastoral care.  Benton needed to do a better job of explaining this to Carter instead of scoffing "that's what nurses are for" but Benton also wasn't wrong.   This is just one example I've come across where I'm like, "Do I agree...with Benton?"  

[Hiyo]

Quote

I find myself more often than not siding with Peter

I was like that during the first run of the show.

[Bastet]

44 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

I find myself more often than not siding with Peter

I do, too.  And I frequently side with Kerry.  These folks are there to do a job, not win a popularity contest, and they do it.  Now, you are more effective at your job if you don't turn people away from your message with your delivery, but we're talking about a woman (and one with a disability) and a Black man in positions of authority, so they're held to a higher standard and would have to make far more of a "likable" effort than white men like Mark to be acceptable, and they both reject that; I am here all day to back them for that on general principle and any time they're speaking truth someone doesn't want to here (and to call them out when they're behaving selfishly or underhandedly).

[kiddo82]

3 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I do, too.  And I frequently side with Kerry. 

I'm a ways away but I know come season 5 when it's Kerry vs Doug I will be full on team Kerry. 

[Hiyo]

There are smaller moments of Kerry vs Doug before that, and I sided with her more often than not there as well.

To be honest, there were many times I sided against Doug, even though the show kept trying to tell me I should have sided with him.

[kiddo82]

4 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

To be honest, there were many times I sided against Doug, even though the show kept trying to tell me I should have sided with him.

Oh most definitely.  I'm also feeling that way about season 1 Carter.  I know he's new and he's learning, and he's really supposed to be the eyes of the audience, but he's almost a little too precious.  

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, kiddo82 said:

I'm rewatching season 1 and I find myself more often than not siding with Peter.  Not so much with the family situation, I am team Jackie there although I can see Peter's dilemma with putting his mom in a facility, but with his less than stellar attitude.  Don't get me wrong he's arrogant, but the man is there to do a job and he does it.  I just watched Sleepless in Chicago and Carter wants to spend his time reading to a gentleman dying of terminal cancer.  I'm not knocking Carter for wanting to be there for this man, I'm not.  However, Carter is there to train and quite frankly, something like that is not sustainable when Carter is supposed to actually be on the floor working.  He could have easily endorsed it to a nurse, a volunteer, or pastoral care.  Benton needed to do a better job of explaining this to Carter instead of scoffing "that's what nurses are for" but Benton also wasn't wrong.   This is just one example I've come across where I'm like, "Do I agree...with Benton?"  

It's not that Peter is wrong, a lot of the time, it's that he's an insensitive, unfeeling jackass about it.

He's the show's archetypal surgeon - arrogant, ambitious, putting procedures ahead of patients etc. He shows a real lack of empathy in the first few seasons that is shocking, but probably not atypical of someone with his job and all the pressures it carries.

They contrasted that really well with Carter's very empathetic and caring approach, which showed why he wasn't really cut out for surgery. And we got to see Carter struggle a bit with the expectation that he should detach himself from his patients, as well as the times he veered too far into Benton territory. One of my favourite scenes is when Susan takes him to task for yelling at the drug addict and his girlfriend, and tells him in her caring but no-nonsense way that he needs to get his head out of his arse.

15 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

There are smaller moments of Kerry vs Doug before that, and I sided with her more often than not there as well.

To be honest, there were many times I sided against Doug, even though the show kept trying to tell me I should have sided with him.

Yeah, Doug's act of always having to play the rebel, chafing under the yoke of silly regulations (like patient and staff welfare) got old very quickly. He was a charming guy, but his constant need to be the victim and to be mad at other people for doing their jobs because it apparently stopped him from doing his, was tiresome.

Best example that springs to mind - him sleeping with Harper and Mark finding out. Somehow, Doug twists that into Mark being prissy and having a vendetta against him, and actually dares to call Mark "self-righteous" as though that's not one of Doug's defining qualities.

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I do, too.  And I frequently side with Kerry.  These folks are there to do a job, not win a popularity contest, and they do it.  Now, you are more effective at your job if you don't turn people away from your message with your delivery, but we're talking about a woman (and one with a disability) and a Black man in positions of authority, so they're held to a higher standard and would have to make far more of a "likable" effort than white men like Mark to be acceptable, and they both reject that; I am here all day to back them for that on general principle and any time they're speaking truth someone doesn't want to here (and to call them out when they're behaving selfishly or underhandedly).

That’s part of the reason why I started appreciating Kerry more. If she had been a man there might not have been the negative connotations about her trying to be a good chief at all. During the cast reunion, George Clooney even touched on what a new idea it was when the audience was introduced to Hicks, who was an attending. Then again, the other ER docs and nurses seemed to have a weird hate for any chief or administrator who tried to run a tighter ship or make them more efficient. That ER could get chaotic with things blowing up every which way and the staff always fighting about something. Why wouldn’t you want to get that under control? We see it again with Moretti. (I haven’t gotten to S15 yet so I can’t judge Banfield at this point.) 

Kerry also makes me miss the early days of the show when there were actual strong female characters who were good at their jobs and had self confidence/assertiveness. I mean, you had Susan 1.0 (S8-12 Susan was a joke as has been stated already here), Hicks, Maggie Doyle, Anna, Elizabeth of S4 and S5, even the background nurses...all women who had their conflicts with the staff but were otherwise not whiny and needy all the time and good at their jobs. 

Compare that to later seasons when you have women like Neela, Abby and Sam sucking up screen time and moping all over the place. My opinions on Abby can be seen in my other posts so I won’t repeat them here again. But I was watching an episode the other night where Neela’s intern Harold quits (and I was relieved because Harold was awful too with his constant need for sex talk on the job) because he wants to change specialties and Neela has this full-on meltdown to Dubenko about how her intern “left” her and she’s 31 and has no relationships. Like what even is that? (Not to mention her meltdown and Jumbo Mart stint in S11.) I’m a woman myself, and while I don’t work in medicine, I was baffled for a minute that Neela is supposed to be a highly professional surgeon in a male-dominated specialty. She just totally comes unglued. So unbelievable. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[kiddo82]

Welp.  My other UO, which might not actually be a real UO but I know around here it is, is that I adore Abby.  J'dore.  I'm well aware of all the reasons some people think she sucks but I don't care.  In the hands of lesser actress I might feel differently but Maura Tierney is the bees knees.  Like the other characters, I have no problems calling it like I see it when I disagree with her, but it doesn't preclude me from enjoying the character over all.

Edited May 2, 2021 by kiddo82

[Hiyo]

@kiddo82 Me too. I'll save you a seat at the cheesy tiki bar the ER gang went to in order to celebrate Mark's life after they found out he passed away.

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Hiyo

[kiddo82]

I'm in.

[SadieT]

On 5/2/2021 at 8:58 AM, kiddo82 said:

Welp.  My other UO, which might not actually be a real UO but I know around here it is, is that I adore Abby.  J'dore.  I'm well aware of all the reasons some people think she sucks but I don't care.  In the hands of lesser actress I might feel differently but Maura Tierney is the bees knees.  Like the other characters, I have no problems calling it like I see it when I disagree with her, but it doesn't preclude me from enjoying the character over all.

Me too! Abby was one of my favorite characters and big reason why I watched the show. I think a lot of that has to do with Maura Tierney's own likability and talent. She's a great actress and people find her relatable. Same with Sam, the character was kind of a mess but Linda Cardellini is usually pretty good and likable in whatever role she's in. I think the writers knew what they had with the actresses and just decided to dump an unending amount of drama onto them because the actors could handle it and people tended to enjoy watching them. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I loved Kerry as a character. ER at its best stood out for having characters that had flaws but were not evil people. Kerry was great because she was very realistic--and just when you thought you could 100% back her, she'd make an unnecessary jerk move. 

Peter was a favorite of mine because when I first started watching (season 2) I was not sure if I was supposed to like him or not. That's great writing and acting. He wasn't cookie cutter good guy or the bad guy. He had flaws but you could see some heart underneath it.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I well touched on how much I don’t like Abby (this seems to still be the only place where not liking her seems to be accepted and popular opinion), and while I’m not sure how unpopular this is, I don’t like Abby and Luka together. By the time I finished S14, it was clear to me they belonged in divorce court and should have been working out a custody agreement for Joe and moving on. Wanting a fresh start where no one knows them in Boston is fine but there was no particularly overwhelming evidence that either of them were willing to change themselves to be better people. Yeah no one will know you in Boston but if you don’t improve your life in Chicago first it’s just an example of “wherever you go, there you are.” Abby and Luka could move to Timbuktu and it wouldn’t matter if neither of them changed and really worked on their marriage. 
 

Maybe I’m just older and more cynical as opposed to the 16/17 year old I was who did ship Luka and Abby. I’m writing a fanfic right now and I find it kind of amusing that the vast majority of current stories can basically be summarized as “Abby and Luka being the best couple ever.” I don’t see it that they stayed happy and Abby became mother of the year, I guess. Maybe because most fanfic writers are young and idealistic that they think the Luka/Abby stuff is cute. 

I also don’t think Sam did anything wrong by not practically throwing Abby a parade and getting out her pom-poms after Abby returned from rehab. The popular opinion on the ER Reddit I’m on, among YouTube commenters back then, etc. seems to be about how awful Sam was in 14x12 and how her drama caused Abby to go into pre-term labor and indirectly start drinking again. First, that hostage situation was not Sam’s fault anymore than it was Abby’s, which is to say it’s not hers either. (Although it was Abby who was resisting medical interventions with Joe, not like Sam tried to kill the baby or something. Abby nearly did that with her own toddler behavior in labor.) Second, if Abby was really serious about being sober and doing the 12 steps (again she didn’t seem like she was all that into it and just wanted the accolades and the escape from her wrongdoings) to make amends, she would understand that not everyone is going to want to fall at her feet and trust her immediately and love her. Sam had every right to wonder if Abby drank at work, and instead of addressing it, she gave Sam a “how dare you” look and never directly addressed it OR apologized. Abby acted as if she was entitled to have her friendships back and get back in everyone’s good graces just because she went to rehab. She doesn’t seem to get that she still has work to do and there will be some people who need time to trust her, or may never trust her again. Considering that she drove drunk with Joe in the car, was drunk at work and told Neela she knows nothing about love...she’s lucky everyone was willing to forgive her and be her friend again. Look, I understand people in recovery need support networks and to be forgiven and they deserve a good life. (I’m reading a book about this for my fanfic research.) But I also believe Abby still needed to do more work with being genuine about her recovery.

 I felt what Susan told Chloe in S2 (I think) when Chloe shows up claiming she has a job and she’s clean and has changed, but Susan basically says she doesn’t really believe Chloe and doesn’t see what’s different was more true to life of a recovering addict than all of Abby’s shitty treatment of others being swept under the rug and instantly forgiven. Abby is not a nice person, IMO, and Sam did nothing wrong in this situation even if I don’t agree with or like her in other plots. Nothing in Abby’s life is ever her fault. Her overall misery is all Maggie’s fault. Her relapse is blamed on Luka. Sam is an evil bitch for not loving Abby immediately. How Coburn escaped the wrath of the Abby fan club is amazing. I’m surprised that she wasn’t brought up as being too mean to poor fragile Abby.

The truth is, Abby had no sense of personal responsibility and if she were a real person she’d probably blame my pet cat for some problem she was having. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Hiyo]

“and while I’m not sure how unpopular this is, I don’t like Abby and Luka together.”

Around here, it’ll get you invited to weddings.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I hated the inconsistent story lines for Luka, one week he's the sad survivor of the death of his wife and kid, a few episodes later he's hitting on every woman he can, then he's so devoted to a particular woman, and then some other story line comes along.

I never saw any chemistry between Luka and Abby.    

[ch1]

I never got the shipping of Luka and Abby.  I didn’t make it to season 14 or their marriage but how they started out in season 7 was just depressing.  I mean their first date ended in a man getting his head bashed in.  They were just a dark hole and it sounds like their stories after they got together again in later seasons weren’t much better.

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

“and while I’m not sure how unpopular this is, I don’t like Abby and Luka together.”

Around here, it’ll get you invited to weddings.

Except for theirs.  I am of the opinion that any relationship that begins with one of the participants beating someone to death on the first date is probably not going to be a healthy one.  This is especially the case when the other participant's reaction to seeing her date kill someone is to go to him and immediately hop into bed as though she was somehow turned on by the experience.  For me: their first date told us everything we needed to know about their sick dynamics as a couple.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, ch1 said:

I never got the shipping of Luka and Abby.  I didn’t make it to season 14 or their marriage but how they started out in season 7 was just depressing.  I mean their first date ended in a man getting his head bashed in.  They were just a dark hole and it sounds like their stories after they got together again in later seasons weren’t much better.

I just finished Season 14 and once of most of that season (minus Jeanie’s return and a few other Abby-free episodes) is enough for me. I’ll probably watch it through The Test and then skip to Jeanie’s return, then the other Abby-free episodes and then the the finale. S14 is my least favorite season although YMMV. Why these two thought having a child together was a good idea is beyond me. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[KnotsLanding]

I'm currently watching ER mostly spoiler free for the first time and I'm halfway through season 9. My unpopular opinion was going to be that I hate Abby, but I see yall agree! So I'll change it: My unpopular opinion is that the character of Luca is horrible and the actor isn't much better. This is like a soap opera recast. He's not Doug, but he's Doug and he is terrible. I've given him enough time I feel and I just don't understand his purpose and why he has so much screentime. He is HORRIBLE and so is Abby. I loved her at first and I do enjoy her at times, but she is so DARK and miserable. I'm sick of this mess. When her mom showed up this season I took a two day break because I couldn't bear more Sally Field.

[Cloud9Shopper]

16 hours ago, KnotsLanding said:

I'm currently watching ER mostly spoiler free for the first time and I'm halfway through season 9. My unpopular opinion was going to be that I hate Abby, but I see yall agree! So I'll change it: My unpopular opinion is that the character of Luca is horrible and the actor isn't much better. This is like a soap opera recast. He's not Doug, but he's Doug and he is terrible. I've given him enough time I feel and I just don't understand his purpose and why he has so much screentime. He is HORRIBLE and so is Abby. I loved her at first and I do enjoy her at times, but she is so DARK and miserable. I'm sick of this mess. When her mom showed up this season I took a two day break because I couldn't bear more Sally Field.

I feel like this is the only place on the internet where disliking Abby is the popular opinion. Luka himself I liked at first (I mean, I was 14 when he was first on the show; I had no life experience and thought he was hot and endearing, so forgive me), but yeah Abby I never liked. I thought adult me would like her (I’m in my 30s now) because her fans always say how great she is because she has problems people relate to. And all I can think of is “if I knew Abby or an Abby type in real life, I would have deleted her off Facebook and stopped talking to her already.” If you’re only in S9, it gets worse but I won’t say why since you’re watching spoiler free. :) 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Rootbeer]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:12 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I feel like this is the only place on the internet where disliking Abby is the popular opinion. Luka himself I liked at first (I mean, I was 14 when he was first on the show; I had no life experience and thought he was hot and endearing, so forgive me), but yeah Abby I never liked. I thought adult me would like her (I’m in my 30s now) because her fans always say how great she is because she has problems people relate to. And all I can think of is “if I knew Abby or an Abby type in real life, I would have deleted her off Facebook and stopped talking to her already.” If you’re only in S9, it gets worse but I won’t say why since you’re watching spoiler free. :) 

Let's face it, Luka was hot and a lot of woman found his tragic story of love and loss in Croatia to be somewhat romantic.  He could've been developed into a very credible romantic lead. The problem was the piling on of the misery and the fact that the writers could seemingly never let it go.  I think GV is a decent actor, I've seen him give good performances on ER and elsewhere; but the show really mortally wounded the character when they had him kill a mugger with his bare hands on his first date with Abby.  Very hard to come back from that.

I liked Abby at first, when she was Carol's labor nurse and when she first came to the ER, but a little bit went a long way, especially when she was so unrelentingly miserable.  It's hard to root for a character who seems to want to be unhappy.  And that was Abby to me.

When Doug and Carol eventually reunited in Seattle, I had no problem believing that they would be married and be pretty happy together.  When Luka and Abby moved to Boston, I had equally no problem believing that their marriage was going to hit the skids sooner rather than later, that Abby was never going to remain sober, that Luka was going to be unable to turn off the brooding and enjoy life.  I do hope he got custody of their kid in the divorce, though, since Abby was a terrible mother and clearly incapable of functioning as a single parent.  Poor kid.

[Cloud9Shopper]

32 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Let's face it, Luka was hot and a lot of woman found his tragic story of love and loss in Croatia to be somewhat romantic.  He could've been developed into a very credible romantic lead. The problem was the piling on of the misery and the fact that the writers could seemingly never let it go.  I think GV is a decent actor, I've seen him give good performances on ER and elsewhere; but the show really mortally wounded the character when they had him kill a mugger with his bare hands on his first date with Abby.  Very hard to come back from that.

I liked Abby at first, when she was Carol's labor nurse and when she first came to the ER, but a little bit went a long way, especially when she was so unrelentingly miserable.  It's hard to root for a character who seems to want to be unhappy.  And that was Abby to me.

When Doug and Carol eventually reunited in Seattle, I had no problem believing that they would be married and be pretty happy together.  When Luka and Abby moved to Boston, I had equally no problem believing that their marriage was going to hit the skids sooner rather than later, that Abby was never going to remain sober, that Luka was going to be unable to turn off the brooding and enjoy life.  I do hope he got custody of their kid in the divorce, though, since Abby was a terrible mother and clearly incapable of functioning as a single parent.  Poor kid.

This was not my original opinion (it was posted by someone smarter than me in the other thread), but I just could not when I rewatched Abby in labor and she was told that betamethasone would help MATURE HER BABY’S LUNGS (all CAPS emphasis mine) and her reaction was to throw a fit and yank the IV line away and go all “Karen wants to speak to the manager” about it. Like WTF Abby. This is your child’s LIFE at stake. If you know so much more why didn’t you become an OB instead of practicing in the ER? I’m never having kids but if I were in labor and were told I needed a medicine to help my baby develop I would’ve agreed without a second thought, and I’m not exactly fantastic about my health in some areas. 

I’m not a doctor or a nurse but I wondered why Abby even wanted to have a baby if that’s how she carried on when it came to her baby’s life being in the balance. Someone like that needed to be on good birth control, not getting knocked up. 
 

When I was on S14 I understood Abby was an alcoholic in a relapse and that explained some of her behavior but it doesn’t mean I had to like it. Her refusal to attend meetings and half-assed attitude about doing the steps (as I saw it) was just a turnoff. (My mom works in a rehab facility; I’ve heard lots of stories about clients who half-ass their program or are more worried about when they can leave.) If she had shown more signs of being serious and truly trying to be a better person I would’ve rooted for her. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

This was not my original opinion (it was posted by someone smarter than me in the other thread), but I just could not when I rewatched Abby in labor and she was told that betamethasone would help MATURE HER BABY’S LUNGS (all CAPS emphasis mine) and her reaction was to throw a fit and yank the IV line away and go all “Karen wants to speak to the manager” about it. Like WTF Abby. This is your child’s LIFE at stake. If you know so much more why didn’t you become an OB instead of practicing in the ER? I’m never having kids but if I were in labor and were told I needed a medicine to help my baby develop I would’ve agreed without a second thought, and I’m not exactly fantastic about my health in some areas. 

I’m not a doctor or a nurse but I wondered why Abby even wanted to have a baby if that’s how she carried on when it came to her baby’s life being in the balance. Someone like that needed to be on good birth control, not getting knocked up. 
 

When I was on S14 I understood Abby was an alcoholic in a relapse and that explained some of her behavior but it doesn’t mean I had to like it. Her refusal to attend meetings and half-assed attitude about doing the steps (as I saw it) was just a turnoff. (My mom works in a rehab facility; I’ve heard lots of stories about clients who half-ass their program or are more worried about when they can leave.) If she had shown more signs of being serious and truly trying to be a better person I would’ve rooted for her. 

Yes, in real life, with her fear of mental illness running in the family, Abby should've had her tubes tied years earlier.  Coupled with her self centeredness, inability to stay sober and her general negative attitude about life; she was someone who really should've never had kids.

Abby's behavior when she was hemorrhaging and facing the premature delivery of her child was just awful.  She behaved like a 5 year old.  If you want to question the doctor's recommendations, then do that; don't just pitch a tantrum and rip out the IV.  All I could think was that she had worked on that labor and delivery unit until just a couple of years earlier, she'd known Coburn both personally and professionally for a long time.  How embarrassing that Abby should behave like that in front of people she'd had a longstanding relationship with.  If she didn't trust Coburn's judgement, then why did she choose her to deliver her child?

[Cloud9Shopper]

34 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Yes, in real life, with her fear of mental illness running in the family, Abby should've had her tubes tied years earlier.  Coupled with her self centeredness, inability to stay sober and her general negative attitude about life; she was someone who really should've never had kids.

Abby's behavior when she was hemorrhaging and facing the premature delivery of her child was just awful.  She behaved like a 5 year old.  If you want to question the doctor's recommendations, then do that; don't just pitch a tantrum and rip out the IV.  All I could think was that she had worked on that labor and delivery unit until just a couple of years earlier, she'd known Coburn both personally and professionally for a long time.  How embarrassing that Abby should behave like that in front of people she'd had a longstanding relationship with.  If she didn't trust Coburn's judgement, then why did she choose her to deliver her child?

Well consider how she treated Coburn a year later when Coburn was her sponsor. It just continued. I give Coburn mad props for not dumping her, though she seemed annoyed at various points with Abby’s nonsense. (And how Luka showed up and yelled at her in the ambulance bay in that one flashback scene in 14x14. Classy, Luka. Maybe you and Abby should have your lives together before judging someone who does. I wished I had shut off the episode after that scene because it made me so pissed for a minor plot point.) 

[TexasRanger]

On 2/26/2019 at 10:28 AM, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Also I get a freaking chuckle every time I watch the season 6 episode where Chen tells Greene she consulted the “DMS” and thinks Carter’s bipolar. First of all, Chen, it’s the DSM, and second it’s called PTS-fucking-D. 

Haha, I catch that "DMS" every time, too!

Not related, but there's also a line in one of the last episodes, if not the last, when one of the new residents refers to a creepy older male patient as a "leech" and I'd bet money it was intended to be "lech."

[Steven69]

On 10/8/2016 at 8:47 PM, ESS said:

I didn't like Mark & Elizabeth either and mostly because after they started to become a couple & especially after they got married Elizabeth changed into a jerk and a total shrew of a person which I didn't like at all. I definitely prefer[ed] her with Benton always have...I was so upset when the writers broke them up and still am to this day even when I watch my DVDs. Definitely had amazing chemistry w/ Benton as well!

On 10/8/2016 at 8:47 PM, ESS said:

I didn't like Mark & Elizabeth either and mostly because after they started to become a couple & especially after they got married Elizabeth changed into a jerk and a total shrew of a person which I didn't like at all. I definitely prefer[ed] her with Benton always have...I was so upset when the writers broke them up and still am to this day even when I watch my DVDs. Definitely had amazing chemistry w/ Benton as well!

It wasn't the writers whom broke the pair up. In real life he didn't want his character to be in an interracial relationship. If a white character pulled that crap, they wouldn't ever be allowed to act again. He is a tool both on and off the screen. She was pissed and rightfully so.

Mark and Carol's characters took a huge hit when Doug left. They weren't able to do anything because it was Doug who was very important to everyone's c,

haracters. 

Luka was flat out awful. Can barely understand what he was saying. Would rather watch the Rocket man or honestly the first 4-5 yrs, the nurses played a huge role in advancing stories.

Susan just started hitting her peak when she just left. At that time she was definitely misse

On 10/8/2016 at 8:47 PM, ESS said:

I didn't like Mark & Elizabeth either and mostly because after they started to become a couple & especially after they got married Elizabeth changed into a jerk and a total shrew of a person which I didn't like at all. I definitely prefer[ed] her with Benton always have...I was so upset when the writers broke them up and still am to this day even when I watch my DVDs. Definitely had amazing chemistry w/ Benton as well

The writers didn't break them up. It's known that he didn't want to have an interracial relationship. If a white character pulled that crap they wouldn't ever be allowed to act again. I thought it was a very strong relationship. They had on air chemistry. Truth be told he was a tool on and off the screen. She was pissed and rightfully so. 

Both Mark and Carol ship sunk once Doug left. The characters needed Doug, once he left it wasn't the same. They needed him.

Susan was just starting to come into her own and she left, which was another blow to Mark. That was a story that everyone got cheated out of.

Truthfully the nurses the first few seasons were more interesting then most everyone from season 10 onward.( maybe a little sooner) the Rocket man was interesting. 

More good characters left before they had a chance. Lucy was good.

Almost every episode is the same stories being told on Grey's Anatomy. Which has a hell of a lot better actor and actresses.

 

[ESS]

On 9/25/2021 at 6:47 AM, Steven69 said:

 

The writers didn't break them up. It's known that he didn't want to have an interracial relationship. If a white character pulled that crap they wouldn't ever be allowed to act again. I thought it was a very strong relationship. They had on air chemistry. Truth be told he was a tool on and off the screen. She was pissed and rightfully so. 

 

I realize that it wasn't the writers who broke them up and that it was ELS, but I still didn't like it. I just said the writers because most would say that if they didn't realize the actual actresses/actors wanted the couple to break up and in this case it was ELS which a lot of people didn't know it was him that wanted to stop the relationship until years later. Just saying.

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, ESS said:

I realize that it wasn't the writers who broke them up and that it was ELS, but I still didn't like it. I just said the writers because most would say that if they didn't realize the actual actresses/actors wanted the couple to break up and in this case it was ELS which a lot of people didn't know it was him that wanted to stop the relationship until years later. Just saying.

ELS was quite outspoken about wanting Benton to have a successful relationship with a woman of color and most of us watching the show at the time knew exactly why Peter and Lizzie were not end game.  In the meantime, Anthony Edwards, coming off the awful Amanda Lee storyline, expressed hopes that Mark would get a front burner relationship with a strong woman.  By the end of the season, Mark and Lizzie were an item.

From an interview with LaSalle in 1999:

"As an African-American man, it becomes a bit offensive if the negative things are all you're showing,' he told Hello! magazine. 'Because in real life we romance and get on each other's nerves and laugh and do all the things that any other race of people do. So if the only time you show a balanced relationship is in an interracial relationship, whether it's conscious or sub-conscious, it sends a message I'm not comfortable with.' The temptation to brand LaSalle a hypersensitive killjoy, who has lost the plot, the sub-plot and the denouement, should be resisted. True, it is individuals, not races who get into relationships; true also that love is difficult enough to find without setting racial prerequisites about who should be getting together with whom. But while love may be blind, the rest of the world certainly isn't."

These remarks were made in spring 1999, right after the breakup of Benton and Corday happened on the show and Alex Kingston also gave interviews corroborating the story.

 

[ESS]

3 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

ELS was quite outspoken about wanting Benton to have a successful relationship with a woman of color and most of us watching the show at the time knew exactly why Peter and Lizzie were not end game.  In the meantime, Anthony Edwards, coming off the awful Amanda Lee storyline, expressed hopes that Mark would get a front burner relationship with a strong woman.  By the end of the season, Mark and Lizzie were an item.

From an interview with LaSalle in 1999:

"As an African-American man, it becomes a bit offensive if the negative things are all you're showing,' he told Hello! magazine. 'Because in real life we romance and get on each other's nerves and laugh and do all the things that any other race of people do. So if the only time you show a balanced relationship is in an interracial relationship, whether it's conscious or sub-conscious, it sends a message I'm not comfortable with.' The temptation to brand LaSalle a hypersensitive killjoy, who has lost the plot, the sub-plot and the denouement, should be resisted. True, it is individuals, not races who get into relationships; true also that love is difficult enough to find without setting racial prerequisites about who should be getting together with whom. But while love may be blind, the rest of the world certainly isn't."

These remarks were made in spring 1999, right after the breakup of Benton and Corday happened on the show and Alex Kingston also gave interviews corroborating the story.

 

Yes I’ve read that article I was referring to others in the fandom, but thanks for posting it here though.