S03.E10: Left Behind

[NoWayOut]

Well, that was depressing.

 

Felicity and Diggle broke my heart into pieces. Not even a hug between them? Completely and utterly unacceptable. That scene between Felicity and Malcom was fantastic.

 

Though I disagreed with Felicity's decisions and her shutting the lights off on Diggle and Roy, I can understand where she's coming from. I'm not gonna hold it against her it but I'm pretty sure people are gonna turn against her and can see this trend continuing for the next few episodes. Not only that but imagine the outcry once Oliver comes back from the dead only to have Felicity pretty much kill him again with, assuming it's directed at him, "I don't wanna be the woman you love." Or if she ends up hooking with Ray? It's not gonna be pretty.

 

Diggle and Laurel had a nice moment. I don't mind her as a lawyer but I fail to drum up any interest for her as the Black Canary and I don't think that's ever going to change.

 

Can they please give Thea something more to do?

 

OH, AND THAT TRANSITION FROM FELICITY'S HAND TO OLIVER'S HAND AS IF THEY'RE REACHING FOR EACH OTHER? What are you talking about? I'm perfectly fine.

Edited January 22, 2015 by NoWayOut

[Chaser]

Felicity Plus Clown. Gold

[apinknightmare]

she may have meant her Undergrade degree. and still had a year or two of masters.

Most of the people i know jumped straight to a Phd so they don't really bother with graduating year for their undergrad. is it plausible that someone who did a master will giver her undergrad graduation?

 

 

In The Flash, Harrison Wells said she graduated at age 19 with a Masters. 

[wonderwall]

Though I disagreed with Felicity's decisions and her shutting the lights off on Diggle and Roy, I can understand where she's coming from. I'm not gonna hold it against her it but I'm pretty sure people are gonna turn against her and can see this trend continuing for the next few episodes. Not only that but imagine the outcry once Oliver comes back from the dead only to have Felicity pretty much kill him again with, assuming it's directed at him, "I don't wanna be the woman you love." Or if she ends up hooking with Ray? It's not gonna be pretty.

 

Oh perish the thought... People are definitely going to turn on her when she shuts Oliver down... Ugh Totally not looking forward to that. 

[XtremeOne1]

In The Flash, Harrison Wells said she graduated at age 19 with a Masters.

Which doesn't fit this season's felicity episode much..

[jay741982]

Well, that was depressing.

 

Felicity and Diggle broke my heart into pieces. Not even a hug between them? Completely and utterly unacceptable. That scene between Felicity and Malcom was fantastic.

 

Though I disagreed with Felicity's decisions and her shutting the lights off on Diggle and Roy, I can understand where she's coming from. I'm not gonna hold it against her it but I'm pretty sure people are gonna turn against her and can see this trend continuing for the next few episodes. Not only that but imagine the outcry once Oliver comes back from the dead only to have Felicity pretty much kill him again with, assuming it's directed at him, "I don't wanna be the woman you love." Or if she ends up hooking with Ray? It's not gonna be pretty.

 

Diggle and Laurel had a nice moment. I don't mind her as a lawyer but I fail to drum up any interest for her as the Black Canary and I don't think that's ever going to change.

 

Can they please give Thea something more to do?

 

OH, AND THAT TRANSITION FROM FELICITY'S HAND TO OLIVER'S HAND AS IF THEY'RE REACHING FOR EACH OTHER? What are you talking about? I'm perfectly fine.

With regards to Felicity, I get her reactions and I think anyone who turns on her aren't real fans of the character. But this was my biggest worry about the Olicity angst. I don't get why there had to be any? I want a happy reunion between them but I'm deeply afraid MG is gonna make her bitchy when he didn't have to

[aslightjump]

To be honest, the people defending Felicity are just as hilarious as the people bashing her for no reason, since usually they never hesitated to tear Laurel apart for doing the same thing. "How dare this woman show actual human emotions that slightly inconveniences our male protags! How dare she let this deep emotion affect her for more than five seconds?"

 

As for BC, I am a big Laurel fan and am happy to see her take on the costume, even though the WTF-ness of it was a little off-putting. I thought she was going to use batons, why does she have Sara's staff? Whatever. Seriously, I'm beyond grateful for the lack of cleavage. BEYOND. As for it being too fast, since Laurel does have training beyond your average citizen (even from before Ted), I'm okay with her being able to take out a mook or two. Anything above that? Nada, not buying.

 

Really, I thought everyone did a great job, but the episode was still sort of a shambles? I can't describe why.

[jay741982]

Oh perish the thought... People are definitely going to turn on her when she shuts Oliver down... Ugh Totally not looking forward to that.

MG didn't have to do this either. He seems to like Olicity but yet he doesn't seem to get that the Angst is totally unnecessary.I won't hate Felicity for slamming the breaks but other people probably stupidly will it's depressing Edited January 22, 2015 by jay741982

[statsgirl]

IGN was anti-Felicity last week too.  They want her to be the funny sidekick and that's all.

IMDB is the worst.  I disagreed re Starling representing Seattle (I am from Seattle and it is not one iota gritty), and was called a moron, multiple times.

 

IMBD is awful.  And in The Climb, the map of Merlyn's flight showed Starling was somewhere around Chicago.

I infinitely prefer Lawyer Laurel to Insta-Canary, but as a lawyer myself, I was cringing at those courtroom scenes. Laurel's courtroom demeanor is awful and would be ineffective and off-putting IRL. In my current job, I get to meet with jurors at the conclusion of trials, and one thing they always, always mention is how much it turns them off when the attorneys get strident and hostile towards the opposing party. KC probably thinks she's showing how passionate and kick-ass Laurel is, but I wish she'd take it down a thousand.

ITA. She's good as the lawyer but KC overacted her courtroom scene.  Quiet and firm is more impressive.

 

I don't understand why he'd think they wouldn't be coming for him anyway. They know he's there. Sara was tracking him and Nyssa's seen him. That was what, two months ago? Yeah, he sent Oliver off to settle his blood debt or whatever, but why is he just now getting worried? He should've been worried two months ago!

 

If Oliver had won, the blood debt would have been paid off.  He's worried because Oliver isn't back, which means he lost the duel and now Ra's will be coming for him. Time to get out of town, fast.

 If Ray is supposed to be as big brained as the writing has told us, this should confirm to him that Felicity knows The Arrow. Why else would he bring the prototype to this city? 

He bought QC because the Applied Sciences division had the OMAC technology that he needed to build the suit.  But good point about Ray should be figuring it out.

[Orion]

In The Flash, Harrison Wells said she graduated at age 19 with a Masters. 

 

No, he said she "came in second in the Informative Technology competition at age 19. Graduated M.I.T with masters degrees in Cyber Security and Computer Science." They were two separate events.  

 

The group complaining that Felicity was too whiny can get together with the group on Tumblr and twitter complaining that Felicity didn't show enough emotion and didn't cry hard enough. It can be a mixer party.

[apinknightmare]

Which doesn't fit this season's felicity episode much..

 

Well, the way he phrased it, the "at age 19" comment could technically be applied to what he said before it (which was something to do with her placing in some kind of  informative technology competition). So she graduated in '09 and got her Masters after.

Edited January 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[KenyaJ]

MG didn't have to do this either. He seems to like Olicity but yet he doesn't seem to get that the Angst is totally unnecessary.I won't hate Felicity for slamming the breaks but other people probably stupidly will it's depressing

 

Most of them will be the same people who don't want Olicity together in the first place, because comics. Whatever.

[jay741982]

No, he said she "came in second in the Informative Technology competition at age 19. Graduated M.I.T with masters degrees in Cyber Security and Computer Science." They were two separate events.  

 

The group complaining that Felicity was too whiny can get together with the group on Tumblr and twitter complaining that Felicity didn't show enough emotion and didn't cry hard enough. It can be a mixer party.

I think they are setting up a big Felicity blowup in espiode 12. She is gonna say her feelings about Oliver., Which is obvious she deeply loves him and she will probably be furious with everyone at the end of the Episode. Mad at Diggle Laurel and Roy for trusting Malcolm. Then I bet Oliver comes back and I bet she gets mad cause he doesnt try to contact her or Dig to let them know he's alive plus her abandonment issues, being pissed they could have been together before he "Died"

[apinknightmare]

If Oliver had won, the blood debt would have been paid off.  He's worried because Oliver isn't back, which means he lost the duel and now Ra's will be coming for him. Time to get out of town, fast.

 

But Ra's knew that Malcolm was alive and in Starling City, why wasn't Malcolm worried about Ra's coming to get him before that? He didn't know that Oliver told Nyssa he was under his protection (unless I'm forgetting the part where he found that out, which I could be). 

Edited January 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[KirkB]

Malcolm hasn't been too worried about the League until now because he was hiding and they thought he was dead. If I recall correctly Sara was back in Starling to see if he was alive or not. I'm not sure if Sara had actually reported the affirmative, since even Nyssa mentioned she was hiding something. Once she got back and told her dad Malcolm was officially alive Malcolm went back into hiding. He popped up again to force Oliver into a confrontation with Ra's, on the off chance Oliver could beat him and free Malcolm from his blood debt. Though why he would think that is possible I still don't know. 

 

That scene with Laurel and Diggle was the first time in a long time I actually agreed with Laurel. Oddly, I have since forgotten what she actually said. That's how little impact it actually had on me. Anyway, why the hell were Sara's wig, staff, mask and sonic things just lying out on the table? And on the subject of Laurel, that justice line. It sounded like something I'd have written when I was twelve. 

[apinknightmare]

No, he said she "came in second in the Informative Technology competition at age 19. Graduated M.I.T with masters degrees in Cyber Security and Computer Science." They were two separate events.  

 

Yeah, I realize that. I went back and rewatched it.

[Chaser]

I'm having a really hard time remembering a lot of this episode. I really have no desire to watch the next few.

[XtremeOne1]

To be honest, the people defending Felicity are just as hilarious as the people bashing her for no reason, since usually they never hesitated to tear Laurel apart for doing the same thing. "How dare this woman show actual human emotions that slightly inconveniences our male protags! How dare she let this deep emotion affect her for more than five seconds?"

 

.

This post is so true

[Jediknight]

If Oliver had won, the blood debt would have been paid off.  He's worried because Oliver isn't back, which means he lost the duel and now Ra's will be coming for him. Time to get out of town, fast.

I think part of him is also worried that Thea might be overcoming the brainwashing.  He could be seeing Thea's concern for Oliver as Thea fighting the brainwashing.

[apinknightmare]

I think part of him is also worried that Thea might be overcoming the brainwashing.  He could be seeing Thea's concern for Oliver as Thea fighting the brainwashing.

 

Or he could be worried that the team is going to tell her what he's done to her and he wants to get her out of there pronto before they do.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

MG didn't have to do this either. He seems to like Olicity but yet he doesn't seem to get that the Angst is totally unnecessary.I won't hate Felicity for slamming the breaks but other people probably stupidly will it's depressing

 

I have no problem with angst. I think it is a lot more realistic giving the circumstances. And I certainly don't want the show to shortchange Felicity's character or rush Oliver/Felicity's relationship just so fans won't turn on her. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by MsSchadenfreude

[dtissagirl]

Anyway, why the hell were Sara's wig, staff, mask and sonic things just lying out on the table?

I assumed the stuff wasn't on display, but that since Laurel was alone at the cave, she put the things on the table herself, and then took a moment to think about what she was about to do. But it got rushed, because that's how the emotional beats on Arrow roll.

[statsgirl]

I think anyone who isn't going to give Felicity a break for having lost Sara a few months ago, Cooper returning as a villain and now losing Oliver without being able to talk about what they are to each other, isn't going to be swayed.  Also, not worth arguing with.

 

she may have meant her Undergrade degree. and still had a year or two of masters.
Most of the people i know jumped straight to a Phd so they don't really bother with graduating year for their undergrad. is it plausible that someone who did a master will giver her undergrad graduation?

MIT actually has a joint bachelors/masters degree in computer science.  IIRC, it takes five years but if she's a genius she might have been able to do it in less since there isn't a work placement.

 

Universities are different. In some you have to do a Masters, in others it's straight to a PhD and those who can't finish that graduate with a Masters.

 

Felicity graduated in '09.  She's 25 now so she was probably born in '89 (since we're only 3 weeks into 2015) and would have been 20 when she graduated.

Edited January 22, 2015 by statsgirl

[quarks]

I know that was a very very sad episode, but count me as amused that the episode where Laurel finally suits up as the Black Canary after 50 odd episodes turned out to be a Felicity episode.

 

Good things:

 

1. Really liked the editing cut from Felicity's hand to Oliver's hand.

 

2. Given how negative I've been on Laurel in the past, let me say: her scene where she reminded everyone that Malcolm Merlyn is a lying liar who lies?  Well done. Annoying that Laurel had to be the one to point it out, but well done.  

 

3. The acting from nearly everyone was on fire tonight, especially EBR.

 

4. The bit where Felicity admitted that she and Oliver were more than friends but she didn't really know what they were - sniffle.

 

5. Felicity versus Malcolm. More of that, please. 

 

6. Speaking of Felicity, that little red triangle necklace that she was wearing. Minor thing but I liked it.

 

7. Diggle with Felicity.  I'll just say it again: this show needs more Diggle.

 

8. Thea defending her home with scissors.

 

9. "I could have killed you." "It's cute that you think so." 

 

10.  Loved that the show acknowledged that trying to hide Oliver's disappearance by putting Diggle in the suit isn't that simple: as he said, he's a Glock person.

 

11. Diggle's out in the field again, YAY! 

 

12. We have an actual reason for Laurel to get into the costume. It's not a good reason, but it's an actual reason. I'll take it.

 

13. Oliver alive again after less than one episode. Thanks for not keeping us in suspense, show!

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Ok, I know the show has gone back and forth on just how much money Oliver has left this season, but they couldn't have bought Roy a motorcycle of his own at some point?  And come to think of it, what happened to Sara's motorcycle?  She rode off with it, then returned with the League of Assassins, and went off with the boat. She didn't offer to give it back to Oliver?

 

2. As others have said, Thea has figured out that Roy is Arsenal, but not that her brother, who happens to be keeping the entire basement of the club she runs locked away from her, is the Arrow? Sigh.

 

3. I love these huge fires blazing in Thea's apartment, but how is she affording that much firewood?  Verdant doesn't seem to have that many customers. 

 

4. Vinnie Jones/Brick. In another episode, I would have loved this guy. But the problem is, that entire plotline felt a bit disjointed in this episode. I got that Felicity and Diggle initially felt that they had to keep an eye on things when Oliver took off, and that Diggle was trying to distract himself from his grief by focusing on crime, but it felt wrong.  For two reasons: one, Felicity and Diggle didn't bother to do crime fighting when Oliver took off for five months before this, even though they have Roy to help them now, and two, it felt as if their actual focus would have been on Oliver.

 

Don't get me wrong - I liked that they were continuing on in Oliver's absence. That was great. But something felt off about it. What I think would have better - more cliched, but better - would have been to have them so focused on the search for Oliver/trying to figure out if he was alive that they entirely missed the rise of Brick. Let the audience see how much of a threat Brick is.  Let the audience panic. Let the audience see how deep their grief/worry is for Oliver. As it was, Brick felt like a distraction this episode.  

 

Not to mention that this is the second time this season this show has had a grieving episode. If we hadn't just had "Sara" - but we did. The reactions were different, but still.

 

5. Tatsu just happens to have a nice warm cabin close enough to the Top Secret League of Assassins Ritual Mountain that you can drag a body there? That's very convenient. I hope she also has an X-Box or something else that can keep Oliver entertained. Maybe he can play Lego Batman with the Arrow expansion.

 

6. Wait, what.  Team Arrow has just been leaving Sara's sonic devices lying around unlocked despite knowing that random villains and Laurel can walk into the Arrow Cave at any time? What is this?

 

7. Oliver's alive again after less than one episode.  Way to keep that suspense going, show!

 

Bad things:

 

1. Amanda Waller's management style.  "I have one agent that I've forcibly recruited from an island hell who hates me, one agent who is doomed to die since he's played by someone so unknown he apparently doesn't even have a picture up at IMDB, and one agent whose wife has just been kidnapped. THAT'S WHO I'M SENDING IN."  Look, I know this is an action movie cliche, but at least those movies give a quick, in script nod to the idea that someone upset that his wife has been kidnapped may not be all that focused.  What was that? Amanda, I say it every time you show up, but you suck.

 

2. I understand why, but I hate that Felicity, who until now has been the beacon of hope, actually believed that Oliver was dead. As Laurel, of all people, correctly pointed out, Malcolm Merlyn is a lying liar who lies a lot, and Oliver has been dead before. So, for that matter, has Malcolm. And Slade.  Sure, Oliver hasn't contacted them, and he was heading out to the League of Assassins, not the friendliest group - but until the League of Assassins says something or ARGUS confirms it, one genetic test on blood on a sword doesn't mean that much. 

 

And to have Felicity give up the mission, while Laurel, who has barely been involved in it, frequently criticized it, and has constantly had to be rescued by it, goes on with it.....Auugh. Show, I get that Felicity needs to protect her friends right now, or at least think that she's protecting her friends right now. I get that Felicity's feelings have changed and deepened, but this is the same character who rebuilt the entire Arrow Cave after Oliver gave up on the mission and headed out to grieve on his island.  And the same character who told Oliver that he'd taught her that she could be more. And the same person who put the mission first.  To sacrifice this so that she could warn Ray how dangerous this is, without even giving Ray the specific information that would let him know that actually, yes, she does know what she's talking about? Auugh.

 

Fortunately I suspect that will end soon - her immediate response to Diggle's "It's what Oliver would have wanted" was a giveaway, but, auugh.

 

3. I can't believe I'm typing this, but giving time to Ray that should have been given to Laurel.  Speaking of which:

 

4. I understand that Ray is on the show. I do. And credit where credit is due: Ray's creepiness was considerably toned down in this episode, thanks, and this was arguably the most likeable, relatable, and human that he's been all season. His best episode yet with the possible exception of "Corto Maltese." And I may have cheered just a little bit when Felicity said, yeah, I'm not going to help you get yourself killed. 

 

That said, the Felicity/Ray scenes?  Initially, all with the wrong tone, and later, all with the wrong person. The clown targets in any other episode would have been great. In this episode, not so much. (Another reason why suspense might have been a better way to go.) Her telling Ray not to go out and be a vigilante?  That was the scene she needed to have with Diggle, Roy and Laurel.   Instead, she had the "I was just trying to protect you" scene, which got truncated - for a Ray scene. And that final bit about losing her friends?  Another scene that should have been with Diggle, or even Laurel or Caitlin. Ray doesn't know what's going on, and, more to the point, he's not rushing out to the streets right now: he's just testing weapons on clown targets. 

 

The end result was that although those scenes were impressively acted, they felt more forced, plot wise, than Laurel's Black Canary transformation. I got why Laurel was picking up all of her sister's conveniently just left out on a nearby table equipment (I gather Team Arrow wants Laurel killed off more than people on this forum do). It's an incredibly bad reason, but hey, it was there. I don't know why Felicity was having these conversations with Ray, instead of Diggle and Roy, other than this show needs an origin story for Ray. I know she tends to go away from Team Arrow whenever she's upset, and she's done that before - but the implication has always been that she does that in order to be alone to pull herself together.

 

And really, it's all great to have Felicity tell Ray that she's just lost two friends, but as far as she knows, Ray doesn't know that these friends are vigilantes/crime fighters. They could have died in car accidents for all she knows. Lesson lost there.  (Although I think Ray can probably work this out.)

 

5. Yay, Oliver's alive, which - uh, you just killed him off for less than one episode, show? Weak.

 

And now, Laurel.

 

Let me get this straight, show: for one glorious half hour you finally gave us the Laurel we have been begging you for: a Laurel who is useful, involved with the plot, supportive of other characters, intelligent --

 

and you manage to snatch that away in five minutes.

 

My jaw. It is dropping. And not in a good way.   

 

And to think, in the first half hour, I thought I was going to be typing "Wow, I can't believe I'm typing this, but I liked Laurel in this episode."  Show, you kill me.

 

Number of times Laurel succeeds as an attorney, One, getting the judge to keep the charges and deny bail for her first defendant. Ok, it's not much, but I need to point out that this is the first time on the entire run of the show where Laurel has succeeded as an attorney. It was amazing.  Why have we not been seeing this before? This is the sort of competence we've needed to see in order to buy that this character can have any success in other fields, like vigilantilism.

 

Number of times Laurel succeeds as a human being,  One, reminding everyone in the Arrow Cave that Malcolm Merlyn is a lying liar who lies, and reassuring a clearly terrified Felicity. Ok, again that's not much, but this is an unusual category for Laurel so let's rejoice.

 

Number of times Laurel fails as an attorney. Three.  1, Failing to inform anyone that the defendant's attorney has been tampered with. It's not her job to provide the defendant with adequate counsel, but it is her job to investigate if she thinks that someone is tampering with a defendant who is also a witness. What was that? 2, failing to ensure that the evidence needed to convict someone on 40 odd counts was protected.  Also, failing to take and upload photos of this evidence to a nice cloud drive.  Laurel, allow me to take you back a couple of years to something called the end of the first season, where you decided that the evidence in your case files for civil cases was important enough to risk losing the lives of several people for. Also, let's remember what you said at the beginning of this season, which was, "You catch them, I cook them," not "You catch them, I cook them but only if you make sure nobody burns my evidence."  This is YOUR job, Laurel. The defense attorney even warned you that he was going to challenge your evidence since it was brought in by vigilantes, so your job was to be working on getting/collecting other evidence, building a case. 3, failing to see the connection between the various guys that Brick was targeting, forcing Diggle to make the connection through case file numbers, which should have been Laurel's thing.

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a human being: 1, Not reminding Diggle at the end of the episode that Malcolm is a lying liar who lies, instead going for the hug.  It's in character - Laurel hugs a lot - but.  Laurel! 

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a vigilante: 1, failing to get her own vigilante equipment and instead taking Sara's, despite having no idea how to use the sonic thingies. 2, failing to inform Team Arrow or Ted that she was doing this. 3, assuming she can do this on her own, despite knowing that two other vigilantes who do this regularly just failed, largely because their team member thought they were going to get killed. 

 

I did think the way Sara's equipment/costume just happened to be left out just then and Laurel just happened to look at it was pretty hilarious. Not sure that was the point, but it was pretty hilarious, and after that episode, I needed a bit of a laugh.

[apinknightmare]

To be honest, the people defending Felicity are just as hilarious as the people bashing her for no reason, since usually they never hesitated to tear Laurel apart for doing the same thing. "How dare this woman show actual human emotions that slightly inconveniences our male protags! How dare she let this deep emotion affect her for more than five seconds?"

 

As for BC, I am a big Laurel fan and am happy to see her take on the costume, even though the WTF-ness of it was a little off-putting. I thought she was going to use batons, why does she have Sara's staff? Whatever. Seriously, I'm beyond grateful for the lack of cleavage. BEYOND. As for it being too fast, since Laurel does have training beyond your average citizen (even from before Ted), I'm okay with her being able to take out a mook or two. Anything above that? Nada, not buying.

 

I don't have a problem with Laurel showing emotions, it's just that the reasoning behind a lot of her anger and the things it pushed her to do often didn't make sense to me.

 

She had a baton in the preview for next week's ep, so maybe the staff was just an improvisation? And from interviews that the EPs have been giving it seems like she's going to be doing a lot of "crazy" stuff because she feels like she needs to in order to keep up. I get the sense that she might be insanely lucky with the outcomes of a lot of those things (like her jumping out of the window in the preview, where she, according to interviews released after the TCAs, apparently grabs onto a rope hanging from a helicopter). I hope it plays out differently than it seems like it might.

[benteen]

My concern with Felicity in this episode is making her look weak in order to prop up Laurel.

 

 

1. Amanda Waller's management style.  "I have one agent that I've forcibly recruited from an island hell who hates me, one agent who is doomed to die since he's played by someone so unknown he apparently doesn't even have a picture up at IMDB, and one agent whose wife has just been kidnapped. THAT'S WHO I'M SENDING IN."  Look, I know this is an action movie cliche, but at least those movies give a quick, in script nod to the idea that someone upset that his wife has been kidnapped may not be all that focused.  What was that? Amanda, I say it every time you show up, but you suck.

 

Amanda's management style has been atrocious from the beginning.  Let's nuke a city in order to kill 50 guys.  Let's blow up a plane in order to kill one international gangster.  She literally will burn down the country in order to win a single battle...she's that bad a leader.

Edited January 22, 2015 by benteen

[Artsda]

I don't think the episode flowed together well.  Random people showing up in the lair at all times, Felicity turning off the lights, Laurel going into Black Canary. 

[BkWurm1]

A couple small things first:

 

What the hell was the freaking captain doing in a high-speed chase? 

 

I pointed at the screen and said pretty much the exact same thing. 

 

as a lawyer myself, I was cringing at those courtroom scenes. Laurel's courtroom demeanor is awful and would be ineffective and off-putting IRL. In my current job, I get to meet with jurors at the conclusion of trials, and one thing they always, always mention is how much it turns them off when the attorneys get strident and hostile towards the opposing party. KC probably thinks she's showing how passionate and kick-ass Laurel is, but I wish she'd take it down a thousand.

 

Maybe I just watch too much Good Wife but I can't help but find Laurel ridiculous in the court room scenes and really it's mostly the dialogue (it would help if she took it down a notch) The stuff they have her say is beyond unrealistic.  The judge is supposed to preside over the courtroom, directing when the lawyers should speak and instead the judge is trying to guess what the hell Laurel is trying to infer.  Super bad writing.  It was actually worse than the arrival of BC for me (and the arrival of BC was not a good thing)

 

Also was it just me but is turning the lights off while Roy and Diggle were still there a little bit rude lol

 

Here's the thing, can it really be categorized as rude when it's done to cap off an argument?  Rude is when you have no manners during normal everyday life.  Felicity was fighting with her partners over whether she messed up an operation or saved their lives.   Honestly, I'm not sure they would have survived without what she did (whatever it was since I don't really understand what she did anyway).  How would her having to watch the last two people in her life die in front of her eyes stop the bad guys from getting away?

 

The idea is that they would have found a way...um, did anybody see a way?  Roy was pined down, begging for help and Diggle was getting the snot punched out of him.  The idea that she should have just trusted that they would have survived seems unrealistic in this particular case.  Where she might have fallen down was not coming up with a different way to help them but help they certainly needed. 

 

When she turned off the lights, she wasn't being thoughtless or rude since she very purposely turned off the lights.  She wanted them to leave.  She wants them out of the life.  Is she not thinking clearly?  Clearly!  But turning off the lights wasn't the same thing as Laurel turning off the new report.  Laurel wanted to get away from the new report.  All she had to do was walk away.  Felicity turned off the lights because she wanted Dig and Roy to walk away. 

[benteen]

Yeah, Lance in a car chase was ridiculous but I guess that heart is okay!

 

Off-topic question...did they ever explain what happened to Lance at the end of Season 2?  Considering he was spitting up blood, I thought he had been poisoned but this season it seems to have been written off as a bad heart.

[quarks]

is it plausible that someone who did a master will giver her undergrad graduation?

 

 

This is a U.S. thing, and yes. I still do, with an M.S.

[apinknightmare]

My concern with Felicity in this episode is making her look weak in order to prop up Laurel.

 

I don't mind it so much because Felicity's reactions were completely understandable and in-character to me. It's not like they had her look purposely stupid in order to make Laurel look smart or unreasonable to make Laurel look reasonable. Laurel kept it together because her relationship with Oliver isn't the same as it was at one point, and she'd been through this before. And hello, it gave her a reason to buckle up!

Edited January 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[quarks]

And in The Climb, the map of Merlyn's flight showed Starling was somewhere around Chicago.

 

 

I'm wondering if this was a production error. In the first season they seemed to be suggesting that the Queen's Gambit could sail off to the West from Starling and reach China. You could sorta, with effort, sail from Chicago to China, but you'd have to through a fairly elaborate system to reach the Atlantic, and then go through the Panama Canal. I would think that the Queen's Gambit would have blown up well before it reached the Pacific in that case. 

[KirkB]

Not exactly the most heroic debut for Laurel. I have had zero boxing lessons and no desire to be a vigilante, but I'm pretty sure even I could knock out a guy with a metal staff if he was laying on the ground after I zapped him with what is essentially a stun grenade. And while her justice line did sound like something you might have read in a comic book once upon a time it sounds ridiculous in real life.

[apinknightmare]

I'm wondering if this was a production error. In the first season they seemed to be suggesting that the Queen's Gambit could sail off to the West from Starling and reach China. You could sorta, with effort, sail from Chicago to China, but you'd have to through a fairly elaborate system to reach the Atlantic, and then go through the Panama Canal. I would think that the Queen's Gambit would have blown up well before it reached the Pacific in that case. 

 

The Queen family doesn't do anything the easy way.

[foreverevolving]

Everyone pretty much said everything i could think of about the episode.

I may specify more tomorrow.

But for now: i want more Felicity and Malcolm.

Also: Thea being more kick ass than Laurel in what is supposedly Laurel accession to the canary role.. I was really hoping, even though i read spoilers, that They would have told Thea about Oliver being the Arrow. Maybe there's still hope. I really want it to be Oliver though, she deserves to hear it from him.

I also wonder if that Alpha- Omega thing from the flashback is what helped Tatsu revive Oliver. I know it's supposed to be a forget things or whatever sort of drug, but you know, stranger things have happened on this show.

Yeah, Lance in a car chase was ridiculous but I guess that heart is okay!.

Really want it to be so that the audience will see he is okay and will continue to say: #TellQuentin because as you can see he can handle it!!!

But sadly i don't think that is the case.

This is a U.S. thing, and yes. I still do, with an M.S.

Mmmm. See all those people i know did their undergrad back home (home being Israel) so i guess it's different. I'm still doing my undergrad degree so i really have no idea (even though i am studying in the US) Edited January 22, 2015 by foreverevolving

[steelyis]

Overall I thought the episode was MEH. There's always the danger of shows losing all sense of drama when they have fake out main character deaths, and that's why this episode fell flat on its face. EBR and DR did what they could (they were both excellent), but their mourning felt like a waste of time to me since there was nothing to mourn from my perspective.

 

I wish the time skip had been longer than three days. I wish they spent more time showing Ray do Tony Stark stuff. I wish Laurel would tell her dad Sara's dead.

 

Well, at least Laurel's Canary costume looks better in motion than it does in stills, and it's always a pleasure to see Vinnie Jones on my screen.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I was wondering about the motorcycle, too. Roy has his own. We've seen it before, right? In "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" he and Oliver rode to the rally/bank protest on motorcycles. So maybe that's why Felicity was all like, You'll be sorry when Oliver finds out you took his motorcyle out. Maybe Roy's is not a Ducati and he just wanted to ride Oliver's ;)

Edited January 22, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[foreverevolving]

. Maybe Roy's is not a Ducati and he just wanted to ride Oliver's ;)

Uhhhhh..... That sounds so dirty and probably not fully what you meant it to mean. But...

[SmallScreenDiva]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Wow, that is just ... my face is now red. I should probably go to sleep now. HAHAHAHA!

[NumberCruncher]

Man, you guys aren't selling me on watching this one. lol. I can't watch them slowly destroy Felicity's awesomeness. Someone give me a good reason to devote the hour.

[apinknightmare]

Man, you guys aren't selling me on watching this one. lol. I can't watch them slowly destroy Felicity's awesomeness. Someone give me a good reason to devote the hour.

 

I didn't think her awesomeness was destroyed at all. She reacted as I would've expected her to, and was very Felicity IMO. 

[XtremeOne1]

Man Arrow discussions are starting to depress me everywhere. Somehow it always ends up with fans bashing a female character. Laurel gets picked apart for EVERYTHING and if Felicity shows one flaw, the other side of the fanbase turns on her.

It's just kind of sucky. And the Felicity vs Laurel attitude is depressing and boring and pretty anti-woman

Edited January 22, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[dtissagirl]

I'm still marveling at how insanely awesome I thought the turning off the lights thing was, and I think it's even more symbolic than closing the chapter on Felicity turning on the foundry lights in 201.

This show has gone out of its way to say Felicity is the light in Oliver's life, from winky editing that cut to Felicity whenever someone told Oliver he needed light to offset his darkness, to using practical lights in big emotional Oliver/Felicity moments like the I believe in you hug, and the kiss.

So now Felicity believes Oliver is dead and she turns off the light in a hugeass symbolic gesture for both Dig and Roy standing there alive BECAUSE SHE SAVED THEM, and to us in the audience, who have been told time and time again that Felicity = light, but now she's not anymore.

<insert appropriate Batman ~I am the darkness~ reference here.>

Edited January 22, 2015 by dancingnancy

[calliope1975]

Well, one thing I learned from this episode is that there's a reason SA is the lead of the show. It just felt disjointed. 

 

After watching Galavant, I'm expecting jaunty songs and dancing every time Vinnie Jones showed up. 

 

Color me surprised, I think I liked Ray. I liked all of his interaction with Felicity. This is the guy I wouldn't mind sticking around. Fashion note: I'm gonna need that triangle necklace Felicity was wearing.

 

I call bullshit on Thea not knowing her brother is the Arrow. Unless she's being mindwiped nightly. She's not an idiot; stop writing her as one. I don't get Malcolm's plan. He knows Ra's al Ghul. Did he really think Oliver could beat him? Really, truly in his heart of hearts? He should have already been using the time he bought sending Oliver off to fight to get the hell out of dodge. Makes no sense. 

 

Malcolm's bananapants though, so who knows. I would like more scenes between Felicity and Malcolm. That was great. I hope (as some have hoped for and speculated) that she goes full mafia wife on him. Poor Felicity indeed. She is clearly at her last tether and it's going to snap any moment now. I did think turning the lights out was a bitch move but I laughed. She's in a world of hurt and probably grasping onto any sense of control she can find. 

 

I'll refrain from any Laurel comments.

 

It has now been 9 episodes and Lance still doesn't know his daughter is dead. Nope, I will not let that go. 

 

I really hope Maseo and Tatsu can stick around next year. This main cast is way too white for my liking and I'd appreciate some more diversity. 

[kismet]

Overall I thought the episode was MEH. There's always the danger of shows losing all sense of drama when they have fake out main character deaths, and that's why this episode fell flat on its face. EBR and DR did what they could (they were both excellent), but their mourning felt like a waste of time to me since there was nothing to mourn from my perspective.

 

I wish the time skip had been longer than three days. I wish they spent more time showing Ray do Tony Stark stuff. I wish Laurel would tell her dad Sara's dead.

 

Well, at least Laurel's Canary costume looks better in motion than it does in stills, and it's always a pleasure to see Vinnie Jones on my screen.

Totally agree that they should have made the time jump longer, really let the Glades be taken over, thus forcing Team Arrow to act... How bad is this city, that it only takes 3 days to get that bad...

 

I mean they're gonna be using some stretch of the imagination to explain Oliver's rise from the dead.. Why not use that to give some time in the narrative for things to make more sense? All they have to do is use little subtitles at bottom to explain the time differences.

 

But what can you do, overall the writers did a good job. They're really great with the surprises and twists, but then they back peddle from them so haphazardly. I hope it'll get better with time. They need to be comfortable in their stories and shockers to not retreat so quickly.

[NumberCruncher]

It's just kind of sucky. And the Felicity vs Laurel attitude is depressing and boring and pretty anti-woman

Well it's good that I don't really talk about Laurel then. My comment was about Felicity (notice I didn't even bring Laurel up). Felicity has every right to be upset and emotional, but I'm not here for unnecessarily running her under the bus and given how it seems that she's getting slammed all over the internet tonight, I don't think my hesitation is unfounded.

[kismet]

Man Arrow discussions are starting to depress me everywhere. Somehow it always ends up with fans bashing a female character. Laurel gets picked apart for EVERYTHING and if Felicity shows one flaw, the other side of the fanbase turns on her.

It's just kind of sucky. And the Felicity vs Laurel attitude is depressing and boring and pretty anti-woman

This is a major problem on TV... why can't we have multiple strong women on a show, that display the different facets of female. There is not just one type of strong female. I think that's the problem with a show that is utilizing love triangles. It immediately pits one female against another. There is enough place in the arrowverse for a Felicity, Laurel, Thea & , etc. I hope the writers can find some way to write females characters that 1. don't die just cuz they need to move plot & 2. show that its ok to be more than just 1 type of female.  That's why I hope the BC transition is done well. But also that they nip any future female triangle/swaps it diminishes women and the many roles they can play.  

[Carrie Ann]

To clear up some questions I've seen here (I think I'm right about these, but no promises):

 

1--As to why Ra's wouldn't know someone lives in a cabin on his sacred grounds: Tatsu doesn't seem to live in that...cave cabin thing. Maseo says, "I asked her to come here to bring you back to life."

 

2--I didn't see Oliver's body on the little cliff when Malcolm peered over the edge, so I don't think Malcolm saw it, but assumed Oliver went into the ravine due to the placement of the sword. UNLESS he's lying and he knows that the sword stuck in the rock actually means "I dealt a non-fatal blow; come collect your dude." Assuming that's not the case, I think we should believe that Maseo retrieves his body at some point shortly after his death.

 

3--I think the show was intending to make Felicity's choice to protect Dig and Roy seem more like a 50/50, I can see both sides thing. But because both Roy and Dig act like they totally would have gotten those guys (in the big truck, with multiple guns), the audience sort of looks at Felicity like, Oh damn, you blew that one. I think she made the right call, personally, but on a day that Oliver was there, she probably would have just tried to convince them that this wasn't going to work. Hell, Oliver might have called it there too.

 

Anyway, I feel sort of...underwhelmed by this episode, and I don't expect that to improve in 311. I don't think they're going to particularly spend any time on any of the characters' grief, or go deep on that in a realistic way, so we're just going to get Felicity "standing strong," and Dig trying to lead, and that's about it. It's just disappointing. If you're going to kill off the main character, you should wring a lot of emotion out of that, and I don't think they're going to bother, so now it's just more obvious than ever that there was only one reason Oliver "died." And it was to make room for Laurel, and to build up Ray and Roy, to a much lesser extent. And if I were to rank all the characters on the show in order of how much I like and care about them, those three would come in dead last. So yeah, I'm just going to grit my teeth and get through the real BC trilogy, and hope the writers took some of the criticism they received this fall to heart and made improvements for the last third of the season.

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, Lance in a car chase was ridiculous but I guess that heart is okay!

 

He seemed to handle the stress fine during the shoot out too. 

[jay741982]

Man, you guys aren't selling me on watching this one. lol. I can't watch them slowly destroy Felicity's awesomeness. Someone give me a good reason to devote the hour.

Her awesomeness was not being destroyed. Those people bashing her never fully liked her IMO. Seriously She's getting bashed cause she Loves Oliver and God forbid showed a little emotion for maybe like 10-15 minutes. Some people thought she didn't show enough emotion