Relationships: Speed Dating

[phoenics]

I wonder if in Eddie's attempts to change himself so that he wont' be a footnote in history, he will do things that will actually change him for the worse and push Iris away from him because of it? And then Iris and Barry will drift closer - due to Eddie's own actions?

I kinda think that Wells has given us a hint to how he's messing with folks. Not just Eddie though. I think he's gonna mess with Cait too, and maybe Cisco... it can be a terrifying thing to have a "future/destiny" bomb dropped on you where you're told that you're going to become evil or something.

I wonder if next season will be about Caitlin, Eddie and Cisco fighting the future that Wells revealed to them? Among other things.

[FurryFury]

I wonder if in Eddie's attempts to change himself so that he wont' be a footnote in history, he will do things that will actually change him for the worse and push Iris away from him because of it?

 

I'm sure he will, actually. And I can't help but hate it.

 

I kinda think that Wells has given us a hint to how he's messing with folks. Not just Eddie though. I think he's gonna mess with Cait too, and maybe Cisco...

 

Now that, I wouldn't mind. Cait and Cisco are much better established than Eddie and this could add to their characterization rather than come out of the blue, like the insignificance stuff came for me. I'm especially intrigued by Caitlin because she's a villain in the comics. I do hope all of this would correlate to their actual personalities, though.

 

I wonder if next season will be about Caitlin, Eddie and Cisco fighting the future that Wells revealed to them? Among other things.

 

Seems like a reasonable suggestion. Maybe it could shift the focus to them, there is just way too much on Barry right now, it's exhausting.

Edited May 8, 2015 by FurryFury

[SevenStars]

 it can be a terrifying thing to have a "future/destiny" bomb dropped on you where you're told that you're going to become evil or something.

 

This is one of the reasons I'm happy that we found out that Barry has been in love with Iris and Iris had feelings for him before Barry find out that supposedly he is going to be marry to Iris. Because it would have made me question whether Barry really has feelings for Iris or if what he saw is what is making him think he has romantic feelings for Iris.

 

Just like, Eddie wasn't suppose to be a villain in the future, probably because he didn't get to have relationship with Iris since Barry wasn't in a coma. Or even if he got with Iris, their relationship might have run it course, die natural and afterward is when Iris realize her feelings for Barry and got with Barry. So there was no bitterness or jealous or hatred to impact him in a way that would change him.

 

But now, Wells coming back and telling him the future is going to mess up with the natural order of things and mess-up with Eddie's current future because the Eddie in the past will be trying to changing his future. 

[SevenStars]

RUBY24, ON 08 MAY 2015 - 3:41 PM, SAID:

Yeah, she needs to dump Eddie. If she already knows she would never have dated him if she knew how Barry felt, then clearly she wants to be with Barry.

 

 

 

Iris saying this gave me some insight into her and Barry relationship before he became the Flash. I think one of the reason both of them never got into a serious relationship until one was out of commission is because they acted as each other's bf/gf without really being aware of it. Like they acted when they double dated with Eddie and Linda. So whom ever they would have try to date would have notice that early on in the relationship and bail out.  That didn't happen with Eddie because when he started dating Iris, Barry was not around for them to do their little act. 

 

I think both Barry and Iris have been in love with each other for a while, the difference is that Barry started having feelings for Iris before he moved in with her. Therefore, when he was living with her, he wasn't confuse about what type of feelings he was having for her. But for Iris, it was different, because I think she started falling for him later and because of their living situation or because of how close they had become as friends, she wasn't able to understand that the feelings that she have for him went beyond BFF feelings. Since she never had a serious relationship, that might have giving her experience enough to realize and understand the different type of feelings she was having for Barry, she never really consider that her feelings might be of romantic nature. But her feelings came through in her actions and I think past LI in both hers and Barry's lives saw that and bail out. 

 

Before I couldn't really understand why Barry waited until Iris was about to move in with Eddie to tell her how he really feels. It seems really selfish to me, and I still think it is kind of selfish but I now I get it. I think that because Iris never got serious with a guy before, Barry never felt like he was in danger of losing her. Iris was dating but in Barry's mind, Iris was still his because Iris never took the guy she was dating seriously and the guy probably bailed when he saw how flirty Iris was with Barry.  So Barry felt like he had time to wait it out until Iris realize her feelings for him. But when she decided/was considering moving with Eddie, that was the first time Barry realize that he could really lose Iris. So he blurted out the truth in his attempt to hold onto her, without any plan or idea of how to go from there. 

Edited May 9, 2015 by SevenStars

[phoenics]

RUBY24, ON 08 MAY 2015 - 3:41 PM, SAID:

  

Iris saying this gave me some insight into her and Barry relationship before he became the Flash. I think one of the reason both of them never got into a serious relationship until one was out of commission is because they acted as each other's bf/gf without really being aware of it. Like they acted when they double dated with Eddie and Linda. So whom ever they would have try to date would have notice that early on in the relationship and bail out.  That didn't happen with Eddie because when he started dating Iris, Barry was not around for them to do their little act. 

 

I think both Barry and Iris have been in love with each other for a while, the difference is that Barry started having feelings for Iris before he moved in with her. Therefore, when he was living with her, he wasn't confuse about what type of feelings he was having for her. But for Iris, it was different, because I think she started falling for him later and because of their living situation or because of how close they had become as friends, she wasn't able to understand that the feelings that she have for him went beyond BFF feelings. Since she never had a serious relationship, that might have giving her experience enough to realize and understand the different type of feelings she was having for Barry, she never really consider that her feelings might be of romantic nature. But her feelings came through in her actions and I think past LI in both hers and Barry's lives saw that and bail out.

I think this is the most succinct and logical explanation of Iris and her feelings that I've heard... After digesting it, I totally agree. I think that neither Barry nor Iris knew for a very long time that they were in love with one another - they just thought they were best friends. Barry eventually figured out that what he felt was definitely love because he had a crush on Iris before he moved in with them, but Iris didn't have a frame of reference for her feelings. Clearly their level of closeness is way over the friendship line - to Joe, obviously - but not to Iris.

So on point with your observations.

Before I couldn't really understand why Barry waited until Iris was about to move in with Eddie to tell her how he really feels. It seems really selfish to me, and I still think it is kind of selfish but I now I get it. I think that because Iris never got serious with a guy before, Barry never felt like he was in danger of losing her. Iris was dating but in Barry's mind, Iris was still his because Iris never took the guy she was dating seriously and the guy probably bailed when he saw how flirty Iris was with Barry.  So Barry felt like he had time to wait it out until Iris realize her feelings for him. But when she decided/was considering moving with Eddie, that was the first time Barry realize that he could really lose Iris. So he blurted out the truth in his attempt to hold onto her, without any plan or idea of how to go from there.

In the Pilot before Barry ended up in the coma, he was trying to ask Iris to be with him romantically and she thought he was talking about getting with someone else (or something like that). So he did try, but got stonewalled a bit by Iris not realizing he was talking about HER and kinda derailing him before he could get it out (he psyched himself out). Then he got struck by lightning and was out for the count when Eddie moved in on Iris.

Then he woke up and she was with Eddie and he had the dilemma of deciding whether to tell Iris about his feelings or not... and the deeper he saw Eddie and Iris fall for each other, the deeper his own despair.

I wish they hadn't had Barry do the NiceGuyTM thing and I wish they had chosen something different than Iris "appearing" to be jealous when he was with Linda - the writing let both Barry and Iris down.

[In2You]

The rivalry with Barry is all about Iris so ultimately he will become a villain because of losing Iris.

[Trini]

On the non-romantic relationship front, we finally got a couple of father-daughter heart-to-heart conversations between Joe and Iris. Even though not every single secret is out*, I'm glad some of the air is cleared and they can move forward and be part of the team.

 

*I want to see her reaction to her celeb crush also being the Arrow!

[driedfruit]

It'd be funny if Iris' list of three was:

 

1. Flash

2. Arrow

3. Oliver Queen

 

Come to think of it, is Iris even aware that the Arrow exists? He doesn't have superpowers so perhaps he never caught her attention as more than some weirdo in a mask.

Edited May 11, 2015 by driedfruit

[bettername2come]

Barry had to have told her since he geeked out over him when he met Felicity.

[Trini]

Come to think of it, is Iris even aware that the Arrow exists? He doesn't have superpowers so perhaps he never caught her attention as more than some weirdo in a mask.

 

In the crossover episode, Arrow saves her and Eddie from Rage!Flash, so I think she's aware. Also, from Barry's episodes in Arrow season 2, he was an Arrow fanboy. So I'm sure he must have mentioned it at least once to her.

[SevenStars]

On the non-romantic relationship front, we finally got a couple of father-daughter heart-to-heart conversations between Joe and Iris. Even though not every single secret is out*, I'm glad some of the air is cleared and they can move forward and be part of the team.

 

I loved those scenes and I hope the writers spend more time developing this relationship next season.

[ruby24]

You know, it's been a long time since I watched a network show (I've been mostly into cable shows for the last few years), and I guess I've forgotten just how insanely long they tend to drag things out for. This Iris/Eddie thing is just ridiculous, and if they keep going into Season 2 that just seems like way, way too much time spent on a relationship no one cares about. A guy who's basically a literal placeholder to keep Barry and Iris apart, really?

 

Imo, episode 1x15, where she found out and everything seemed to be coming to a head seemed like a much more appropriate length of time (and even then it seemed long) to have done the whole triangle situation, and I was foolishly tricked into thinking they wouldn't take it all away with the time jump, so I was sorely disappointed that they did. And now, if this goes into Season 2? Sigh. I just think this has already lasted way beyond where they should have made the shift.

 

I think I've been spoiled by shows that only have 10-13 episode seasons and therefore have to move things along quicker. Sitting through over 20 episodes (which is also dragged out over like eight months) reminds me that I have to endure certain storylines that should have been over months ago, and why I got impatient with network shows in the first place.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ruby24

[SevenStars]

A guy who's basically a literal placeholder to keep Barry and Iris apart, really?

 

 

This is one of my main buff with the writers, the fact that they consider Eddie to be just a placeholder and treat Iris and Eddie's relationship as such. As someone who actually like the little Iris/Eddie scenes that the writers bother too show, I would have liked for the writers to have taking this relationship seriously. Just because Eddie and Iris don't end-up being HEA doesn't mean that their shouldn't be taking seriously and develop as such. The writers treating Eddie like a placeholder did a great disservice to both Iris/Eddie/Barry. 

 

This is Iris' first serious relationship, I would have enjoyed seeing how she handled it. 

[Trini]

So they went the 'easy' way with Eddie breaking up with Iris.

[phoenics]

I don't think that's gonna stick though...

[ruby24]

Oh man, if I have to sit through another season, or half season or whatever of that horribly dull relationship, I'm going to be SO upset. Come on, people, really? A season and a half of this? I wish they would just have her face up to her feelings already, this thing has been dragged out way too long.

[statsgirl]

I don't care how comic book canon Barry/Iris is, I liked Iris with Eddie because he respected her and treated her well.  After this, for me Iris/Barry is just going to be inorganic storytelling.

[driedfruit]

Eddie's insecurities about Iris/Barry came out of the left field for me. That one double date aside, we've never seen Eddie sidelined for Barry--not that I can recall. Iris lives with him and, to his knowledge, has been nothing but faithful and completely devoted to him. Isn't that why he bought her a ring? While as the viewer we know Iris and Barry are a thing and OTP/endgame, in the story they're not quite as intertwined. Between his Flash duties and lying to Iris, their relationship didn't seem particularly close as of late, so I'm a bit boggled by Eddie's insistence that it was the three of them. Since when?

[Enero]

Eddie's insecurities about Iris/Barry came out of the left field for me. That one double date aside, we've never seen Eddie sidelined for Barry--not that I can recall. Iris lives with him and, to his knowledge, has been nothing but faithful and completely devoted to him. Isn't that why he bought her a ring? While as the viewer we know Iris and Barry are a thing and OTP/endgame, in the story they're not quite as intertwined. Between his Flash duties and lying to Iris, their relationship didn't seem particularly close as of late, so I'm a bit boggled by Eddie's insistence that it was the three of them. Since when?

Unfortunately Eddie's actions was all plot plot plot and had nothing to do with character development. The writers needed to break up Iris/Eddie so that she can be positioned to eventually hook up with Barry. So Eddie had to suddenly have an "epiphany" about their relationship. As you said, there was no indication whatsoever that Eddie felt Barry was encroaching on his relationship with Iris. Not only did he nearly propose but he asked her to move in with him. They'd been living together happily for months until his lie about Barry started to cause them a few problems. This whole story was done half assed to say the least.

[phoenics]

Unfortunately Eddie's actions was all plot plot plot and had nothing to do with character development. The writers needed to break up Iris/Eddie so that she can be positioned to eventually hook up with Barry. So Eddie had to suddenly have an "epiphany" about their relationship. As you said, there was no indication whatsoever that Eddie felt Barry was encroaching on his relationship with Iris. Not only did he nearly propose but he asked her to move in with him. They'd been living together happily for months until his lie about Barry started to cause them a few problems. This whole story was done half assed to say the least.

I'm not sure this wasn't supported by the previous narrative. They've shown Eddie asking Iris if 1) Barry had romantic feelings for her after he gave Iris that ring, 2) Eddie admitted that he was intimidated by Barry way back in the episode where Girder took Iris, 3) Eddie was not okay with how close Iris/Barry were at the bowling alley, and 4) now that Eddie knows Barry is the flash he also knows that Iris was a fangirl of the flash and that Barry as the flash kicked his butt while under the whammy (and some of the anger was about Iris).

It's not that hard to imagine that Eddie has been carrying these insecurities around this whole time even though he isn't always expressing them constantly.

Besides its got to be tough seeing your awful crappy future laid out like that.

But having said that I feel like they could have done more to get this across.

It didn't feel out of left field for me. It just felt like Eddie knew this all along. I do agree though that with the way Barry and the lie seemed to put distance between Iris and Barry (so why would Eddie worry) I guess he figured Iris would eventually know and then it would be inevitable how they'd come back together as the tight friends they are. When RF showed him that paper it became clear to Eddie that not only did Iris and Barry get close again they got so close they got married.

[SevenStars]

 I agree with phoenics , I think the writers have shown instances where Eddie have been a little suspicious of the relationship but not enough for us to believe that Iris was always putting Barry first. 

 

But with that said, clearly Eddie is convince that everything Wells had told him was the truth, therefore, he probably spent days going over every questionable interaction that Barry/Iris had in the past. An interaction that he might have thought was innocent before, is now something that shows that Iris and Barry were heading toward marriage. 

 

Also, if Linda, within days or maybe weeks of dating Barry saw that there was something between Iris and Barry despite their denials, than why shouldn't Eddie?  I think it might have taking Eddie longer because Barry was not there during the early stage of his relationship with Iris and because Iris seems to really be trying hard to stay with Eddie. Iris determination to stay with him might be the reason that he over-look certain things between Iris and Barry.

[driedfruit]

Eddie had his reservations earlier in the series (for the same reasons as Linda) but Iris has more than proven her devotion and faithfulness to him since. She's always put Eddie first, so his assumption that she wouldn't continue to do so didn't make sense to me. The bowling double date should've been nothing more than a hiccough where Eddie was concerned as, immediately after, having recognized that she was inadvertently stringing along both guys, Iris chose Eddie and told Barry to back off. Eddie buying Iris the ring and planning to propose to her--while asking Barry to help where Joe was concerned--don't seem like the actions of a guy who is worried about another man's presence in his relationship. Unless he's very twisted, but that's not the reading I get off of Eddie at all. 

[ruby24]

I'm bringing this post of mine over from the 1x21 thread.

 

What they ought to do with Iris is make her kind of a Lois Lane-lite. I mean, nosy reporter is perfect for getting involved in all the villain drama going on. I think it'd be pretty easy to incorporate her role on the show as that, but that goes along with ditching the pointless and stupid love interest she's saddled with (Eddie).

 

I don't see why these shows have to have constant relationship drama. It takes away from the rest of it and the person who's stuck with her only role being "worried about pointless love interest nobody cares about" is going to get the short end of the stick. I say take a page out of Lois & Clark's book (anyone remember that show?) and just go ahead and let the couple that's supposed to be together, be together as a pair/partners as much as possible. Then they're able to just do the show without worrying about the stupid will they/won't they stuff.

 

I actually thought the stuff that worked this year that they did earlier was all the flirting between Iris and The Flash, which now that I think about it, basically was the "love triangle" in the first season of Lois & Clark too, with her, Clark and Superman. But again, there's no need for a phony other guy to exist only to keep them apart. It doesn't have to work that way.

[phoenics]

I'm bringing this post of mine over from the 1x21 thread.

 

What they ought to do with Iris is make her kind of a Lois Lane-lite. I mean, nosy reporter is perfect for getting involved in all the villain drama going on. I think it'd be pretty easy to incorporate her role on the show as that, but that goes along with ditching the pointless and stupid love interest she's saddled with (Eddie).

 

I don't see why these shows have to have constant relationship drama. It takes away from the rest of it and the person who's stuck with her only role being "worried about pointless love interest nobody cares about" is going to get the short end of the stick. I say take a page out of Lois & Clark's book (anyone remember that show?) and just go ahead and let the couple that's supposed to be together, be together as a pair/partners as much as possible. Then they're able to just do the show without worrying about the stupid will they/won't they stuff.

 

I actually thought the stuff that worked this year that they did earlier was all the flirting between Iris and The Flash, which now that I think about it, basically was the "love triangle" in the first season of Lois & Clark too, with her, Clark and Superman. But again, there's no need for a phony other guy to exist only to keep them apart. It doesn't have to work that way.

I agree with you - I said earlier in this thread or the Barry and Iris threads that the reason why the show doesn't seem to have them as Lois & Clark on this show is because they went with the Flash Team formula and a lot of what Barry and Iris can do on their own, they've given to Team Flash. It's why Barry seems kinda dumb sometimes - he's been dumbed down to give a lot of "smarts" to Caitlin and Cisco. I like Team Flash - but not at the expense of Barry and Iris...

I'm glad Iris gets to be the one in the know about things happening on the ground - that will help her integrate more seamlessly, but it still doesn't solve the issue we have with Barry being shown to be kinda dumb from a scientific perspective - at least, not as smart as he's supposed to be. Barry asking how fast he needed to run up the side of a building really irritated me because HE'S the physicist, not Caitlin or Cisco - why should they know when he SHOULD know?

Ugh.

[ruby24]

I agree with you - I said earlier in this thread or the Barry and Iris threads that the reason why the show doesn't seem to have them as Lois & Clark on this show is because they went with the Flash Team formula and a lot of what Barry and Iris can do on their own, they've given to Team Flash. It's why Barry seems kinda dumb sometimes - he's been dumbed down to give a lot of "smarts" to Caitlin and Cisco. I like Team Flash - but not at the expense of Barry and Iris...

I'm glad Iris gets to be the one in the know about things happening on the ground - that will help her integrate more seamlessly, but it still doesn't solve the issue we have with Barry being shown to be kinda dumb from a scientific perspective - at least, not as smart as he's supposed to be. Barry asking how fast he needed to run up the side of a building really irritated me because HE'S the physicist, not Caitlin or Cisco - why should they know when he SHOULD know?

Ugh.

Okay, that's a great point. I know that during this last episode I had totally forgotten that Barry actually was supposed to be this scientific genius himself, or at least that's the way he was introduced on Arrow. And they did mention that earlier in the season, but now they've given every tech thing over to Caitlin and Cisco, and it's had him be dumbed down quite a bit.

 

Tbh, I think they tried to replicate in some ways the Diggle-Felicity-Oliver team from Arrow, that was perfected in Season 2, but they need to remember that The Flash can and should be different in other ways, not just tone. Iris could totally be the solid partner and girlfriend she's supposed to be, instead of this horrible love triangle stupidity (which in some ways also reminds me of the Oliver-Laurel-Tommy stuff in Arrow Season 1, except that Tommy was actually more of a person than the useless Eddie), and Barry can still be the science wiz he's supposed to be as well, even with his speed and his team behind him.

[phoenics]

Tbh, I think they tried to replicate in some ways the Diggle-Felicity-Oliver team from Arrow, that was perfected in Season 2, but they need to remember that The Flash can and should be different in other ways, not just tone.

Yeah - that's exactly what they tried to replicate - and I think it takes away from the richness of the Flash story. I may like Team Flash, but I resent how they've sucked story from true iconic flash characters like Iris. I resent the hell out of that.

Iris could totally be the solid partner and girlfriend she's supposed to be, instead of this horrible love triangle stupidity (which in some ways also reminds me of the Oliver-Laurel-Tommy stuff in Arrow Season 1, except that Tommy was actually more of a person than the useless Eddie), and Barry can still be the science wiz he's supposed to be as well, even with his speed and his team behind him.

Yeah - I don't even know how Barry would create Gideon given we never see him doing anything tech-y lately. We barely see him doing forensics work and he sometimes acts like he couldn't tie his own shoes without Team Flash. I think instead of that dynamic, they really do need to show Barry taking on more of that himself and show Iris being her bad@ss self with her reporting... let HER stumble across the stories they need to solve.

I hope we see more of that next season. I liked how the team worked with Iris involved in the mix.

[ruby24]

Yeah- they're looking at Arrow, when really for this show I think they should be looking more at something like Lois & Clark. Especially when the stuff that they've differed from Arrow (the family bond, the closeness and loving part of it) has been the best part. And the stuff they kept (an interminable useless love triangle) has sucked.

 

Take the hint and go with more of the stuff that's working, right?

[phoenics]

Exactly.

And if my suspicions about Candice being elevated to female lead actress (and not just top billed actress - though I thought she was that all season), then that might be the route they are taking next year as well. The credits changing to have Grant and Candice's names shown and then a very long gap (between 10-15 seconds) before all of the other cast names over the last 2 episodes tells me that something has probably changed contractually.

Good.

Edited May 14, 2015 by phoenics

[ruby24]

What's interesting to me is that I think the writers know on some level that the love of family, etc. is the heart of this show (I think Kreisberg has even said that, and he said that in direct contrast to Arrow, because he knows or thinks that show is mostly a soap), but I'm not sure why they don't think that couldn't also extend to the Iris character, or why Eddie is necessary in the first place. I mean, is there any reason they couldn't do with Barry and Iris what they did with Barry and Joe? Is the love triangle inherently more interesting than if they were to somehow work and be together in a supportive fashion (I think the answer to that is an obvious, flat NO).

 

When I first started watching, I was really surprised by what the Barry/Joe dynamic turned out to be, because I totally wasn't expecting it, and you never see that kind of father/son (surrogate or otherwise) relationship on TV. I would have loved to be able to say the same thing about the love interest aspect, but that unfortunately turned out to be exactly what I was expecting. I would have been even more impressed if they had trusted their instincts enough to do the same thing there.

 

I wonder if it's newtork interference- does the CW demand that every single show they air have to have a love triangle?

Edited May 14, 2015 by ruby24

[driedfruit]

Exactly.

And if my suspicions about Candice being elevated to female lead actress (and not just top billed actress - though I thought she was that all season), then that might be the route they are taking next year as well. The credits changing to have Grant and Candice's names shown and then a very long gap (between 10-15 seconds) before all of the other cast names over the last 2 episodes tells me that something has probably changed contractually.

Good.

 

That's good news. Any guesses why the change?

[ruby24]

Do you really think that means something? Could it not just be a glitch or an error, maybe? I'm really asking, because I don't know how that works.

[patchwork]

Isn't it normally a contract thing? It's why some actors get a 'and/with' before their name. 

 

I'm hoping things change in season 2, ideally Killer Frost and Vibe happen and it destroys the current status quo. 

[ruby24]

Isn't it normally a contract thing? It's why some actors get a 'and/with' before their name. 

 

I'm hoping things change in season 2, ideally Killer Frost and Vibe happen and it destroys the current status quo. 

I figured it was for the "and" and "with" actors, but does the amount of time passed between some names and the rest of the credits actually mean anything?

[phoenics]

I figured it was for the "and" and "with" actors, but does the amount of time passed between some names and the rest of the credits actually mean anything?

It normally means you have a leading male and female on the show (and not just an ensemble cast). I went back to check a few things yesterday and this change definitely happened for the last two episodes.

The only reason I know much about this at all is because of my experience with Roswell. In the first season they had two distinct leads and then in seasons 2&3 they muddied that (to the detriment of the show, IMO) and the change was reflected in the time between the names in the credits. The order didn't change - but the time between them did. It got shorter. And the actress shown 3rd nearly took over the show. and then it got cancelled.

They keep saying we will see KF and Vibe sooner than we think. Do they mean next episode (that's what it sounded like though I dunno how they'd fit that in) or next season?

I kinda would prefer seeing Cait and Vibe find out this destiny and then get freaked out by it.

And I really need to see Iris begin to lead some of the stories via them landing on her desk as a reporter.

I remember reading an interview where AK said they weren't going to drag out the will they won't they. I think if they don't drag it out then they will be able to use Iris' screen time to drive story more. I do think Eddie is headed for villainy though (sad).

Edited May 14, 2015 by phoenics

[ruby24]

I remember reading an interview where AK said they weren't going to drag out the will they won't they. I think if they don't drag it out then they will be able to use Iris' screen time to drive story more. I do think Eddie is headed for villainy though (sad).

I could have sworn I read that interview too- where was that? Now I can't find it, but I wanted to see when it was that he said that- was it before the show premiered or was it more recently, during the season? If it was even just a few months ago, that would be an encouraging sign, imo.

[Enero]

I'm not sure this wasn't supported by the previous narrative. They've shown Eddie asking Iris if 1) Barry had romantic feelings for her after he gave Iris that ring, 2) Eddie admitted that he was intimidated by Barry way back in the episode where Girder took Iris, 3) Eddie was not okay with how close Iris/Barry were at the bowling alley, and 4) now that Eddie knows Barry is the flash he also knows that Iris was a fangirl of the flash and that Barry as the flash kicked his butt while under the whammy (and some of the anger was about Iris).

It's not that hard to imagine that Eddie has been carrying these insecurities around this whole time even though he isn't always expressing them constantly.

Besides its got to be tough seeing your awful crappy future laid out like that.

But having said that I feel like they could have done more to get this across.

It didn't feel out of left field for me. It just felt like Eddie knew this all along. I do agree though that with the way Barry and the lie seemed to put distance between Iris and Barry (so why would Eddie worry) I guess he figured Iris would eventually know and then it would be inevitable how they'd come back together as the tight friends they are. When RF showed him that paper it became clear to Eddie that not only did Iris and Barry get close again they got so close they got married.

 

You make some good points, but I'd still argue that the instances mentioned where minor at best (with the exception of the bowling alley double date debacle). As been stated, Iris has more than proven that she was completely committed to Eddie. Not only did she move in with him, but when Barry pushed hard for her to admit she had feelings for him she rejected him then told Eddie what was going on.

 

Wells kidnapping Eddie for a few days, telling him a few things about the future that might or might not have been true and showing him "proof" that Iris married Barry, which again might or might not have been true (why again did Eddie believe anything Wells had to say?) was not a strong enough reason IMHO for Eddie to suddenly dump Iris, the girl he loves, was living with and about to propose to. Now if the the writers had done their due diligence and showed Iris/Barry constantly causing issues in the Iris/Eddie relationship, showed that Eddie had major insecurities about himself and his relationship with Iris then the kidnapping happens and it further deteriorates his faith in himself and his relationship with her, I could see the break up making sense. However, Eddie has been anything but insecure, curious and a little suspicious about Barry's feelings for Iris, yes. But he's always come off as confident and committed to their relationship.

[phoenics]

I think Rick Cosnett explained it by saying that Eddie has always gotten what he wants (at least since he grew out of his pudgy stage as a kid) and having someone like Barry upstage him both in the "amazing destiny" thing AND "marries Iris" thing probably hit him in his most insecure place - that he mentioned in the episode where he's doing the punching bag scene with Barry.

I agree that Eddie has "appeared" secure, but I don't think he's actually been secure. I think he's put on a good front - but I think Joe's rejection of his proposal to Iris, as well as other instances where he had to work SOOOOO hard to get Joe's approval, vs Barry... I think that revelation really hit him.

Plus, the revelation that Barry is the Flash must have been a bit for him - since I'm sure he suspected that Iris had a little crush on him.

I think he's going the way of Cobalt Blue - the similarities are too numerous to ignore... and it's all based on insecurity and envy of Barry and his 1) powers and 2) familial relationships and his relationship with Iris...

[Xander]

After that finale, do the writers still expect the general audience to root for Iris/Barry? 

[Oscirus]

Yea, between all the father son stuff with Iris's dad and Barry, the obvious lack of romantic interest by Iris, and the Eddie-Iris romance which kind of makes it seem like Eddie is her obvious first choice, I don't get what they were going for.

 

 

The stranger relationship for me is Caitlin Ronnie. She's grieving him, she finds him, she's over him, she falls back in love with him, she's over him again, she's kissing fake Barry, now they're married again. And this entire arc was spread out over 5 episodes throughout the season.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Oscirus

[bluebonnet]

The only way I'll ever root for Iris/Barry is if money is involved.  I'm not a comic reader so I have no preconceived notions of what 'should' happen.  I'm just going by the show.  Iris and Eddie ftw.  Of course, I'm prepared for some dumb timeline changes that makes everyone different.  I guess in an alternate timeline, Barry is actually the hero, one who doesn't inhumanely imprison people or create blackholes just so he can say bye-bye to mommy.  

 

I still dont really get the Ronnie/Caitlin thing.  It makes zero sense.  For a minute I was really confused why they were getting married because I had completely forgotten that they were even a couple.  

[ruby24]

After that finale, do the writers still expect the general audience to root for Iris/Barry? 

Well, it has to happen, right? I have to admit I don't understand why these writers go out of their way to make the "other guy" into the hero right before he dies (they did the same thing with Tommy on Arrow). I guess they feel guilty for killing them and want to give them a nice sendoff, but to have her choose him on top of it all is a little excessive.

 

My guess is that they do this because it gives them a built-in excuse to again delay the inevitable B/I pairing for as long as possible, because of course now she's got to grieve for at least another full season.

 

I don't care at all about Eddie dying, because to me it was so obvious that his very existence was practically a literal roadblock separating Barry and Iris, and it was clear he was the most expendable cast member because of that. He was a non-entity the entire year, and his only character development showed up in this last episode, clearly just because he was about to die. I'm not going to be invested in him just because he did something noble. There was practically no time spent on his personality at all this entire season. Even Tommy seemed like more of a real person to me, through his relationships with Oliver and Laurel, Malcolm and maturation over that first season. Eddie, not so much.

 

All I knew about him before tonight was his name and occupation.

Edited May 20, 2015 by ruby24

[Impish Dragon]

The only way I'll ever root for Iris/Barry is if money is involved.  I'm not a comic reader so I have no preconceived notions of what 'should' happen.  I'm just going by the show.  Iris and Eddie ftw.  Of course, I'm prepared for some dumb timeline changes that makes everyone different.  I guess in an alternate timeline, Barry is actually the hero, one who doesn't inhumanely imprison people or create blackholes just so he can say bye-bye to mommy.  

 

I still dont really get the Ronnie/Caitlin thing.  It makes zero sense.  For a minute I was really confused why they were getting married because I had completely forgotten that they were even a couple.  

 

I liked what little we saw of Iris/Eddie this season, far more than anything Iris/Barry (romantically anyway).  I think I was supposed to be moved or at least aww at the wedding but all I kept wondering about was whether Stein had seen his wife yet.

[Trini]

Lord Mesa's Eddie and Iris tribute.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I just want to say this, about all of the Barry-related romance...

 

I try my best to not 'ship'.  If romance happens, it happens.  I only ask its done well and the manufactured angst roadblocks are kept to minimum and at least kinda believable.

 

That said, if Barry/Iris is TPTB's "end game" relationship, then don't keep forcing triangles/squares/octagons or have Iris 'hating' Barry for making Eddie kill himself - to save everyone - for an impossibly long time; that and her obnoxiously rebelling against 'destiny' as described about in the future newspaper's by-line about her & Barry being married.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I usually hate tumblr because a lot of views on there are very...radical? Anyway, I found this post about Eddie/Iris and I'll admit that it's a very interesting theory, one that could work, besides a few minor problems. I think I'm just gonna take it as my headcanon because why not? It's basically arguing why Iris/Eddie happened to be endgame in this particular timeline and that Eobard accidentally changed a bit too much and switched out the Barry/Iris endgame. I think it's a short but interesting theory, and I like it. Although it seems to imply that Eddie sacrifices himself also so Barry/Iris can get together, which...eh. And I even like WestAllen. I just like WestThawne a bit more.

[ruby24]

Seriously though, how long do you guys think this delays the Barry/Iris pairing? A season? More?

 

I'm thinking it's an Everwood redux, where it happens at the end of S2.

[Trini]

Normally, I'd think it would happen end of Season 2 - mid-Season 3, but this show seems move faster(heh) with its developments. So...mid-Season 2? Or the last third of the season. I think we have at least a half season of Iris mourning Eddie and finding a new dynamic with the Flash Mob.

[ruby24]

That's a good thing for her if she does find a new dynamic with them- she needs to be integrated into the Flash team better. They've got to somehow make use of her being a reporter or something.

 

I don't know if the show moves that fast- this triangle still felt interminable to me for lasting the entire season. I couldn't be happier that at least that part's finally over.

[driedfruit]

Iris and Eddie never looked as attractive together than they did in the scene where he brought her the Mama Chows. I thought they had a very messy story (as a couple and as individuals) with far too many loose ends and unresolved plot points, but they were heartbreaking in the final.

[FurryFury]

It was a really nice scene, yes. Also, I'm all about "Screw destiny!" all the time, so the message felt particularly powerful for me. I think I could have actually shipped them after that, but yeah...

Edited May 21, 2015 by FurryFury