Spoilers With Speculation

[Myrelle]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I want to see the scene that was shown at SDCC.

You and me both. :-/ 

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

You and me both. :-/ 

I've fully prepped myself for it never actually being shown in the series.

[Myrelle]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I've fully prepped myself for it never actually being shown in the series.

You and me both. Again. Anything else I'd have to say would belong in the bitter spoilers thread.

[catrox14]

43 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

You and me both. Again. Anything else I'd have to say would belong in the bitter spoilers thread.

The only other thought I just had is that with the EW having that special premier show, they are holding it back for that.

[Pondlass1]

That hat!  I think Jesen’s been watching too much Peaky Blinders.

I wonder how Michael chooses to dress?  He’s got a great body to adorn.  Does he drive Baby? Does Dean have any influence at all?  

[ILoveReading]

Sam- Not only am I too sad to shave but I don't have time because Im so busy but I can still manage to make sure its neatly trimmed. 

Jensen doesn't even look remotely like Dean in those photos (I'm not talking about outifts).  There seems to be a coldness to him in some of those pictures and he even has a different way of holding himself.  More regal almost. 

*Throws the awards at Jensen. 

[Myrelle]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam- Not only am I too sad to shave but I don't have time because Im so busy but I can still manage to make sure its neatly trimmed. 

Jensen doesn't even look remotely like Dean in those photos (I'm not talking about outifts).  There seems to be a coldness to him in some of those pictures and he even has a different way of holding himself.  More regal almost. 

*Throws the awards at Jensen. 

I'm loving that. I hope the words they give him don't spoil it, though. I want her to be frightened of him. I want him to bring the Menace. 

The hat doesn't bother me either. We have a college campus close to where I live and I've seen them being worn by the kids when I've been downtown even before Jensen went for that look; and Peaky Blinders is very popular on tumblr from what I've seen of late.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

'm loving that. I hope the words they give him don't spoil it, though. I want her to be frightened of him. I want him to bring the Menace. 

Responding in bitter spoilers

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Sam- Not only am I too sad to shave but I don't have time because Im so busy but I can still manage to make sure its neatly trimmed. 

Jensen doesn't even look remotely like Dean in those photos (I'm not talking about outifts).  There seems to be a coldness to him in some of those pictures and he even has a different way of holding himself.  More regal almost. 

*Throws the awards at Jensen. 

Yup. That's the vibe I get. And I got that vibe from Christian's Michael as well, even after Jack wounded him, he still didn't seem to be broken. I mean he is the most powerful, 100% angel in the universe. 

[gonzosgirrl]

5 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm loving that. I hope the words they give him don't spoil it, though. I want her to be frightened of him. I want him to bring the Menace. 

The hat doesn't bother me either. We have a college campus close to where I live and I've seen them being worn by the kids when I've been downtown even before Jensen went for that look; and Peaky Blinders is very popular on tumblr from what I've seen of late.

I want Michael to be a total badass, too, but I won't be surprised if she's not afraid of/a sasses him. She was never afraid of Lucifer,  even after he powered up again. What will annoy me us if he doesn't smoke her the moment she does. 

[MysteryGuest]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I liked the character of Sister Jo.  She was different and I thought Danneel did a great job.  But I don't think we'll have to worry about her for too long.  I won't be surprised if we get to see Michael kill Sister Jo.  She may think he'll be as easily manipulated as Lucifer was, but I don't think she'll find that to be the case. 

[Casseiopeia]

[catrox14]

So, it's now officially less than 4 weeks from the premiere and still no promo. 

Sigh...

[Pondlass1]

On 9/15/2018 at 6:11 PM, MysteryGuest said:

I liked the character of Sister Jo.

I don't know that I like the character.  It seems odd to me that angels possess earthly type aspirations. What is the difference between humans, angels and demons except for black eyes and wings and business suits?  There should be differences surely?

But I thought Danneel did a good job here.  I've only ever seen her in ten inch hero and wasn't impressed at all by her in that film.  But she held her own as Sister Jo I thought.  Still, I don't want the character to stick around for long (and she probably won't with 3 kids at home). 

I don't even want Garth back. Don't like the actor or character. He's a werewolf now isn't he?

I just feel so down in the dumps this hiatus.  I hope we get some Michael promos soon to make me feel better.

[ILoveReading]

I don't like or dislike Sister Jo.  I can take or leave her.  I just wish they had left her a faith healer rather than make her an angel since their is nothing really special about any of the ones left.  I don't blame Danneel, I blame the writers.  For me, Ketch is about the only interesting side character left, but I give more credit to the actor.  I just find the writers seem to struggle with this and many of the character left are one-note.

It didn't help pairing sister Jo with Lucifer.  Hopefully with him out of the picture Sister Jo might be more interesting.

She liked to sass Lucifer, if she tries that with Michael I hope he smites her.   If your going to say Michael is ruthless, show it, jsut dont' tell it.  (CoughAUCharlieCough)

Edited September 17, 2018 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

36 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don't know that I like the character.  It seems odd to me that angels possess earthly type aspirations. What is the difference between humans, angels and demons except for black eyes and wings and business suits?  There should be differences surely?

And for me, it lessens what Castiel has done in his life, the sacrifice he made in s4 and s5 to side with Dean/humanity. 

It would be one thing if the writing had made it clear that it was Cas' influence on Sister Jo, that maybe they good be more kind and helpful to humanity. Why would they other than retreading Anna's SL which they kind of did with Sister Jo. Anna ripped out her grace to become human but Sister Jo hasn't done that so how much does she really want to be human.

IMO, Cas' story has been rather epic, WRT to his relationship with humanity. Not even the "broken chassis" moment deters or reduces the sacrifices he made for Dean/humanity in s4, s5 and s9. He chose Dean/humanity every time. His terrible plan in s6 was short sighted but his intentions were never malicious to humanity or Dean or Sam.  IMO, Sister Jo's act IMO wears a little thin when she's doing it for money when she could be doing it because she learned about Castiel and thought it would be good to be amongst humans and help them at no charge.

I still can't understand how there are only 10 or whatever angels left in Heaven or on Earth. And what also doesn't make much sense to me is  there is angel radio and they can sense each other's  existence, so  why didn't Cas already know the numbers were so low, or sense all the angels that had died when he was sent back from the Empty. It only makes sense that he didn't know if he was altered in some way and couldn't feel it.  So I think there are big plot holes with that entire angel SL. 

[Pondlass1]

I was talking more about miscellaneous background red shirt angels and demons. What's the difference? There should be a difference.

The empty heaven storyline has become ridiculous in my opinion.  I guess I haven't followed too closely.  Are the souls still in the veil?  Why is heaven so empty - and why should we care? What about the white rooms with names on the door?

I'm hoping heaven and hell scenes do not feature in season 14.  

[Myrelle]

Maybe including JA in the angels' storyline, in a more supernaturally-connected way, will liven it up a little. I liked the angels storyline back in S4 and even into 5, but the actors on the show were a big part of that for me, and while I wasn't crazy about AUMichael at first, when he shared the screen with Jensen in the finale, sparks were flying all over the place for me again.

[SueB]

I’m looking forward to the Michael/Anael scenes.  I think it’s a great opportunity to hear Michael’s POV.  Somewhere they mentioned that the lack of angels in this side is going to be a concern for him.  

I also think Anael will be less sassy with Michael.  She genuinely wanted Lucifer to fix heaven and ‘act Lordly’. She had some bargaining power with Lucifer because he needed grace.  She MIGHT have some power with Michael because she knows where all the angels are.  But Michael in the AU could get inside another person’s mind.  The other leverage she has is that he probably wants supporters.  What value is there to leave the Apocalypse World and just wander around smiting people?  We already know he wants to avoid the mass destruction again.

Another major question is if Michael can just bust into Heaven after Naomi closed the door.   Since the original magic to close the door was ‘a big lever’ on the Angel tablet, it may be more difficult to reopen from the outside.   

In any case, without ‘minions’ or a Heaven to rule, that’s gotta have some influence on Michael.   I think his meeting with Aneal will help to reveal how this will affect his plan.  I’m up for that.  

[Myrelle]

35 minutes ago, SueB said:

In any case, without ‘minions’ or a Heaven to rule, that’s gotta have some influence on Michael.   I think his meeting with Aneal will help to reveal how this will affect his plan.

IA. I think their scene will involve exposition more than anything else; and I'm pretty sure he won't kill her, but I could see him seeing her and using her as a tool where Heaven and the other angels are concerned and nothing more.

I am now wondering what will happen when Mean and Castiel meet. I truly hope that they will give us that.

[Myrelle]

Oh, and I'm really, REALLY! hoping that we get to see that finger-snap that instantly explodes people from Mean. I want to see more powers this time than what we got from the Demon Dean and MOC storylines. That's something that I still feel like I was cheated out of, for the most part, in those storylines. 

[ILoveReading]

Finally a new promo.

Michael torturing people with Dean's body.   What a better way to finally address Dean's PTSD from hell.

Funny how Jack has no problem with wanting off Dean because he might be dangerous. 

Jensen is going to kill it, as Michael.  I need more now.

Edited September 20, 2018 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

No Dean in sight in that clip. It's clear that Jensen is going to make the very most of however many minutes he gets as Michael. But torturing people (in Hell?). Ouch. They couldn't do anything worse to Dean. I hope that if he is aware, or has to remember later, they treat the story with the respect Dean deserves. And Jack doesn't care if Dean dies? Fair enough - but I hope he gets treated with as much disdain as Dean did.

[Pondlass1]

Oh I just know there’s going to be at least a few spine tingley moments.  Jensen is going to rock Michael. ??

[BabySpinach]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Finally a new promo.

Michael torturing people with Dean's body.   What a better way to finally address Dean's PTSD from hell.

Funny how Jack has no problem with wanting off Dean because he might be dangerous. 

Jensen is going to kill it, as Michael.  I need more now.

 

Mood: Michael calling Dean his new "pretty face". Jensen got to call himself pretty! LMAO

Also, fuck you, Jack! Dean saved your ass by saying yes, and now you're willing to sacrifice him?! FUCK YOU, KID. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by BabySpinach

[MysteryGuest]

Well, we all wanted Jack to be more than just warm and fuzzy, so we'll see how this plays out.  Someone has to play that role, or there's no drama.  Who's really left to take the counter argument against saving Dean at all cost?  I have to say it's going to be very strange watching Jensen play someone other than Dean.  It will probably take me a few watches to not be overly critiquing everything he says.  

[catrox14]

Finally! Not one hint of Dean.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

Mood: Michael calling Dean his new "pretty face". Jensen got to call himself pretty! LMAO

Also, fuck you, Jack! Dean saved your ass by saying yes, and now you're willing to sacrifice him?! FUCK YOU, KID. 

Hopefully, something like this will be Cas' response, too.

Glad we finally got a promo and IA with all of this

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No Dean in sight in that clip. It's clear that Jensen is going to make the very most of however many minutes he gets as Michael. But torturing people (in Hell?). Ouch. They couldn't do anything worse to Dean. I hope that if he is aware, or has to remember later, they treat the story with the respect Dean deserves. And Jack doesn't care if Dean dies? Fair enough - but I hope he gets treated with as much disdain as Dean did.

and will add that I even saw a little of Christian's Michael in there with that "Who's next?" And Anael seemed pretty freaked at the sight of him. Hopefully, he'll inspire a bit of terror in her before he sends her on her way.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

Mood: Michael calling Dean his new "pretty face". Jensen got to call himself pretty! LMAO

Also, fuck you, Jack! Dean saved your ass by saying yes, and now you're willing to sacrifice him?! FUCK YOU, KID. 

 

If Sam does not say some variation of this to Jack, I will be sorely disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed. He saved Jack, Sam and everyone else that Lucifer would have wasted with his newfound power. Saving the world might not have been Dean's primary motivation, but that doesn't change the fact it was a big part of the outcome. They'd all do well to remember that.

Edited September 21, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

I suspect Jack will say ‘this is what Dean would say to do’.  Remember Dean promised to kill Jack.  I don’t think Jack is saying it out of ‘I don’t give a shit’ reasons.  I think Jack is trying to respect Dean’s wishes.  The AU hunters probably don’t give a shit but I don't think that’s where Jack will be coming from.  I think Dean’s promise to kill him (13.2) was somewhat comforting to the kid.  Remember how he beat his own chest when he (Jack) thought he was being stupid?   I think Jack trusted Dean would stop him from being a monster. And I personally loved that little moment when Dean shot him (Jack) to get his attention.  

All those little moments make me feel like Jack is speaking from a ‘What Would Dean Do?’ perspective — as Jack understands it.  Jack, of course, is mistaken.  At the start of their relationship I think Dean would have taken Jack out if it came to it.  But after Dean declared Jack ‘family’ ... I think Dean would do everything in his power to find another way. Still, I think Dean would be the first to tell Jack he was right.  Dean would be wrong in this perspective — but Dean doesn’t value his own life as much as he does his family’s.  I think he’s MUCH better than he was, he’s not looking to die, but he’s not sentimental about himself. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I suspect Jack will say ‘this is what Dean would say to do’.  Remember Dean promised to kill Jack.  I don’t think Jack is saying it out of ‘I don’t give a shit’ reasons.  I think Jack is trying to respect Dean’s wishes.  The AU hunters probably don’t give a shit but I don't think that’s where Jack will be coming from.  I think Dean’s promise to kill him (13.2) was somewhat comforting to the kid.  Remember how he beat his own chest when he (Jack) thought he was being stupid?   I think Jack trusted Dean would stop him from being a monster. And I personally loved that little moment when Dean shot him (Jack) to get his attention.  

All those little moments make me feel like Jack is speaking from a ‘What Would Dean Do?’ perspective — as Jack understands it.  Jack, of course, is mistaken.  At the start of their relationship I think Dean would have taken Jack out if it came to it.  But after Dean declared Jack ‘family’ ... I think Dean would do everything in his power to find another way. Still, I think Dean would be the first to tell Jack he was right.  Dean would be wrong in this perspective — but Dean doesn’t value his own life as much as he does his family’s.  I think he’s MUCH better than he was, he’s not looking to die, but he’s not sentimental about himself. 

I actually agree with this for the most part. I do think Dean would say Jack is right. But I don't want Jack to think he's right and I sure don't want Sam to think Jack is right. Because Dean would agree if it were anyone else in the world except Sam or Cas or now Jack. I want them to feel the same way about him. Remember when Cas was possessed by Lucifer? Dean was the first one to say they needed to save him, even if it meant not killing Lucifer.( not in so many words but that was the gist) So yeah, I don't care if Jack is right I want them all to want to save Dean.

[Myrelle]

That scene would be the perfect time for Cas to do some Dean-positive speechifying to Jack.

ETA: And it should be written in no uncertain terms as to that.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Myrelle

[SueB]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I actually agree with this for the most part. I do think Dean would say Jack is right. But I don't want Jack to think he's right and I sure don't want Sam to think Jack is right. Because Dean would agree if it were anyone else in the world except Sam or Cas or now Jack. I want them to feel the same way about him. Remember when Cas was possessed by Lucifer? Dean was the first one to say they needed to save him, even if it meant not killing Lucifer.( not in so many words but that was the gist) So yeah, I don't care if Jack is right I want them all to want to save Dean.

I don’t think Jack is right either.  I just think this is part of Dean that Jack saw (at one point in their relationship) and so Jack THINKS he’s right.  But that doesn’t mean I think Jack is right.  I think it’s a reasonable POV — at this moment — for Jack.  And I think he’ll figure out that he’s wrong at some point in the recovery effort.  If not, then I hope he figures it out when they get Dean back.  

[Lemuria]

SueB,  you may be right in what you believe they are trying to convey with Jack, but if that is the case then it is an acting and directorial fail. I did not pick up on any sorrow, regret, remorse or any similar emotion  from Jack based on what I saw in that promo. All I got was anger and and the feeling that Jack didn’t particularly care about what happened to Dean so long as they nailed Michael. 

If that’s the case, then I really would like to see fans being as harsh with Jack as they were with Dean.   Yes, you can argue that Jack has a good reason for feeling that way but I also believe that Dean had a good reason for feeling that way about Jack in the first half of last season. One big difference for me is that Jack was not family to Dean—and he was an unknown but possibly genuine threat and someone who had cost Dean part of his family—at the time Dean felt that way but presumably Dean is now family to Jack and that doesn’t seem to make any difference in regard to how Jack feels about Michael or about possibly losing Dean. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Lemuria

[BabySpinach]

43 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

SueB,  you may be right in what you believe they are trying to convey with Jack, but if that is the case then it is an acting and directorial fail. I did not pick up on any sorrow, regret, remorse or any similar emotion  from Jack based on what I saw in that promo. All I got was anger and and the feeling that Jack didn’t particularly care about what happened to Dean so long as they nailed Michael. 

If that’s the case, then I really would like to see fans being as harsh with Jack as they were with Dean.   Yes, you can argue that Jack has a good reason for feeling that way but I also believe that Dean had a good reason for feeling that way about Jack in the first half of last season. One big difference for me is that Jack was not family to Dean—and he was an unknown but possibly genuine threat and someone who had cost Dean part of his family—at the time Dean felt that way but presumably Dean is now family to Jack and that doesn’t seem to make any difference in regard to how Jack feels about Michael or about possibly losing Dean. 

There's also the fact that Jack owes Dean his life. Dean never owed shit to Jack, but he sacrificed his fiercely guarded autonomy partly to save him. And that apparently means nothing to the little twit. I dearly hope he's framed as wrong, and that either Cas or Sam smack him up a good one (verbally, at least). Like, who does Jack think he is? Why should he even get a say? It was his own damn fault for arrogantly letting his guard down and allowing Lucifer juice himself up on nephilim grace. Did he ever consider that?

There's also just the simple grating annoyance of a 1 year character, who's as flat as a pancake, speaking with any kind of authority on the life of a 13 year, highly developed and complex lead. 

Alternatively, this could be the beginning of an interesting arc for Jack in regards to his lack of empathy, which was touched on in 13.04 but then thoroughly contradicted afterwards and never followed up on. It'd be inconsistent, but it'd be better than him being framed as right and reasonable for his unfeeling, ungrateful current stance.

I'm reminded of season 11, when Cas stupidly let Lucifer possess him and accomplished nothing and only made things worse for them in the future. Yet Dean still wanted to save Cas and even completely let him off the hook for almost getting them killed through Lucifer.

If Dean gets anything harsher than the understanding and forgiveness that he extended to Cas in season 11, there will be some definite double standards in play.

[catrox14]

IMO, it doesn't make sense for Jack to think it's what Dean would do.  Jack doesn't actually know Dean at all, unless he did some kind of mind whammy on him in utero or even now, that we never knew about and read his mind and learned something about Dean that has never been said before.

Dean would only want die in service of killing Michael if ALL other options have been exhausted, i.e.  the Magic Egg that @gonzosgirrl reminded still exists AFAIK.

Personally, I didn't see anything in the acting in that snippet that implied Jack would understand Dean at all. Why would he? He doesn't know him really.  I only got from it that Jack is obsessed with killing Michael....and IMO, he might even have some subconscious anger that Dean/Michael killed Lucifer.  Sure it doesn't make any sense but I won't be surprised if that comes up.  And lets be real, he is Lucifer's spawn. Maybe there is still something in him that resents Dean. Also if they have Jack not care if Dean dies, when he was so upset and begged Cas to bring back Sam, then I think we can see who Jack cares about, and it's not Dean IMO.

And the only other way they can salvage that for me, is to have Jack not understand his emotions and that he's actually angry with Dean himself for putting himself at risk and so he's blaming Dean in some way. Misplaced anger of a teenager so to speak or feeling like Dean abandoned him.   I won't like but it wouldn't make me think that Jack is an asshole like I do now.

[Aeryn13]

The actor plays it as if Jack didn't give two shits about Dean. Now I do hope Cas speaks up for Dean here. 

And no way Jack is gonna get it from fandom for that attitude. That would only happen if he said the same thing about Sam. Which he wouldn't because he is a little fanboy.

I'm not fond of the costuming choices for Michael. There is the hat of course. But why would he wear something as ridiculous as that protective covering over his suit? He can snap his fingers after the torture and the suit is pristine again. That looked stupid.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Aeryn13

[Pondlass1]

I think we put a lot more thought into this show than the show runner and writers.  Dabb just aims for the shock value not whether it makes sense for the story or the character.

19 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I'm not fond of the costuming choices for Michael.

Jensen is keen on Peaky Blinders series and I get the impression he has input into wardrobe sometimes.  But I have to agree it's not my favourite look on him.  I preferred the 1944  in Time after Time.

[catrox14]

I think it's so fascinating how much Michael!Dean is not Dean at all. It's all in Jensen's eyes IMO which means some internal performance, too.   Dean's eyes have love in them IMO. He can be angry and furious and frightening but there caring in his eyes.  Michael!Dean's eyes have none of that.  That is something that didn't exist in Leviathan Dean either. Demon Dean had loathing in his eyes IMO.  

Give Jensen his goddamn Emmy nom( yeah yeah I know). 

[Bobcatkitten]

I love Michael's look, though without the hat. 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I think it's so fascinating how much Michael!Dean is not Dean at all. It's all in Jensen's eyes IMO which means some internal performance, too.   Dean's eyes have love in them IMO. He can be angry and furious and frightening but there caring in his eyes.  Michael!Dean's eyes have none of that.  That is something that didn't exist in Leviathan Dean either. Demon Dean had loathing in his eyes IMO.  

Give Jensen his goddamn Emmy nom( yeah yeah I know). 

ITA. It's all in the eyes. There is a very imperious quality to Michael!Dean's eyes that was absent in all of the Dean-adjacent characters. DemonDean's were dead, at times, with maliciousness mixed in there, too; MOCDean's eyes were dead more often and especially when he was at the height of that storyline-as in The Prisoner and when he beat the snot out of Cas. LeviathonDean's eyes were cruel and malicious, and little else. That was how he got his enjoyment.

Michael!Dean's eyes are something altogether different from all of those characters. I think we can forget about seeing even a smidgeon of love or caring from them. Cold like Ice with only his goal in mind and nothing else. Ruthless doesn't even come close, nor simple arrogance either-it's not just and simply the belief that what he's doing is right, but more of a surety and knowledge that what he's doing is right- and completely for the best of all. Kind of like Cain when he'd become completely lost to the Mark, but even more than that because of the quieter and seemingly innate quality/belief that almost all of the angels on this show share or have shared, at one time, even Cas-that their club is the best one. And this angel believes that he is The Best of the Best.

And that's pretty scary-and all I was hoping to see in the character, tbh. ;-)

Bring on the premiere.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Myrelle

[ukgirl71]

Totally agree that Jensen is carrying himself completely differently - and that voice! A year’s supply of soothing honey for Mr Ackles methinks!

[SueB]

Quote

 

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 11

SEASON PREMIERE

SUPERNATURAL

“Stranger in a Strange Land” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

ALL HANDS ON DECK – Sam (Jared Padalecki) enlists everyone’s help in trying to track down Dean (Jensen Ackles), who can literally be anywhere. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) may be in over his head after meeting up with an unreliable source. After being drained of his grace in season 13, Jack (Alexander Calvert) is adjusting to life as a human, learning new skills and figuring out how he fits in to this world of hunters. Thomas J. Wright directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1401). Original Airdate. 10/11/2018

 

Episode summary.  I like Wright as a director.  He's done some tricky work.

[Myrelle]

On 9/21/2018 at 11:43 AM, Aeryn13 said:

The actor plays it as if Jack didn't give two shits about Dean. Now I do hope Cas speaks up for Dean here. 

 

 

IA and you and me both.

 

On 9/21/2018 at 9:44 AM, BabySpinach said:

There's also just the simple grating annoyance of a 1 year character, who's as flat as a pancake, speaking with any kind of authority on the life of a 13 year, highly developed and complex lead. 

ITA with this also and thank you.

I found it interesting that just after Sam bellows that there isn't going to be another King of Hell, they cut to Michael!Dean torturing. I really hope that that isn't his big plan, because if so, I smell a simple retread of the Lucifer storyline.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

On 9/21/2018 at 6:44 AM, BabySpinach said:

I'm reminded of season 11, when Cas stupidly let Lucifer possess him and accomplished nothing and only made things worse for them in the future. Yet Dean still wanted to save Cas and even completely let him off the hook for almost getting them killed through Lucifer.

Big difference though. Cas took a calculated risk. Amara was considered the biggest threat to the universe at that time. And Amara also screwed around with Cas' mindframe when she used his body to burn that message onto him and berated him and tore him down before sending him back to  deliver the message that she was on her way and then he said yes to Lucifer. And prior to that he was already on the ropes mentally and emotionally through that first part of s11 after Rowena put the attack dog spell on him which nearly killed him and then being tortured by the other angels. He didn't do it out of hubris or arrogance. He did it out of desperation. I think that is why Dean could forgive him and not hold it against Cas.  As for Dean telling him he did the "right" thing, I think Dean said that because the world was on the verge of ending and he wanted to let Cas know he forgave and that Cas was family. 

Jack on the other hand, doesn't have any kind of history really with Dean and  he is Satan's spawn regardless of picking Cas to protect him.  I think it would be far more interesting if Jack's dark side is showing now.  Jack couldn't kill Lucifer in the other world, so maybe on some level he never wanted Lucifer dead and now that Dean killed him he resents him. I would find that a lot more interesting than Jack or the writers giving Jack any kind of special insight into Dean or Sam or Mary.

[Pondlass1]

I think they were dallying at first with Jack being partly dark, but the young actor is popular with the younger demographic so I'm pretty sure he'll be permanently woobified which is a shame because they keep missing out on opportunities for some meaty storylines.

Right now I'm just in it for the Michael/Dean scenes and Jensen's performance.  Nothing much else interests me as it's just plot driven drivel lately.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by Pondlass1

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I found it interesting that just after Sam bellows that there isn't going to be another King of Hell, they cut to Michael!Dean torturing. I really hope that that isn't his big plan, because if so, I smell a simple retread of the Lucifer storyline.

Not to mention simply ridiculous. Why would Michael want anything to do with ruling Hell, or with demons at all, apart from ending them? Isn't that what he did in the AU? And 'our' Michael was only ever on Heaven's side, even if he was a winged dick about it.

I dunno, my faith in any decent storyline for Michael!Dean has dwindled to almost nil and that weird torture scene did nothing to boost it.

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I would find that a lot more interesting than Jack or the writers giving Jack any kind of special insight into Dean or Sam or Mary.

But that wouldn't fit the Soapernatural direction they seem to be taking.

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Not to mention simply ridiculous. Why would Michael want anything to do with ruling Hell, or with demons at all, apart from ending them? Isn't that what he did in the AU? And 'our' Michael was only ever on Heaven's side, even if he was a winged dick about it.

I don't think there is any real correlation between what Sam said and Michael's entrance. I think it's just promo silliness. 

Sam has no say so over what happens in Hell so him saying that makes no sense at all. 

As to Michael ruling Hell, IIRC, in common lore , but not necessarily SPN lore, in some religions, Michael visits souls afte they die and he pronounces judgements on their worth.  Maybe he's going into Hell to decide if every soul in Hell deserves to be there or not. And that kind of matches with him telling Dean that he was going to save his soul first.

[Bobcatkitten]

So have I missed something or has it ever been explained what exactly is motivating Michael? What was he doing in the AU world and why? Is that going to be similar to our world? I'm just confused why he is killing people.

[ukgirl71]

On 21/09/2018 at 4:43 PM, Aeryn13 said:

 

I'm not fond of the costuming choices for Michael. There is the hat of course. But why would he wear something as ridiculous as that protective covering over his suit? He can snap his fingers after the torture and the suit is pristine again. That looked stupid.

Just been thinking about this. I reckon the apron might be there to inspire even more fear in the people he tortures as it points towards a LOT of blood?