Spoilers With Speculation

[Casseiopeia]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And when I do try to think of it, I think of Mary being alive and John being alive in Dean's body, and then I have to go bleach my brain.  *shudders

Ewww...I never thought about that!

[ahrtee]

How about John was secretly a nephilim (we never did learn anything about his mother, did we?  And the MoL knew angels in Henry's time) which would explain why Sam and Dean were so important to the universe (and why Dean could look into an exploding angel's eyes without burning up and how Sam could hold Lucifer without exploding himself.) 

When John escaped from Hell, Chuck stashed his soul somewhere where he wouldn't interfere until he was needed (that's why Ash couldn't find him in heaven); and now he needs a new vessel so he can fight Michael and repopulate heaven to keep the lights on.  

*sigh* and then Chuck can recreate John's old vessel as a reward (JDM making a surprise appearance at the end of s. 14) and he and Mary can adopt Jack and head off to nephilim heaven--or rule the AU together.  *gag*

 

And icky as it sounds, Dean is actually older than Mary now.  But yeah, I see it more as a marriage of souls, not physical.  :)  No bleach required.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

Ewww...I never thought about that!

I hope to never think about it again.

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

How about John was secretly a nephilim (we never did learn anything about his mother, did we?  And the MoL knew angels in Henry's time) which would explain why Sam and Dean were so important to the universe (and why Dean could look into an exploding angel's eyes without burning up and how Sam could hold Lucifer without exploding himself.) 

When John escaped from Hell, Chuck stashed his soul somewhere where he wouldn't interfere until he was needed (that's why Ash couldn't find him in heaven); and now he needs a new vessel so he can fight Michael and repopulate heaven to keep the lights on.  

*sigh* and then Chuck can recreate John's old vessel as a reward (JDM making a surprise appearance at the end of s. 14) and he and Mary can adopt Jack and head off to nephilim heaven--or rule the AU together.  *gag*

 

And icky as it sounds, Dean is actually older than Mary now.  But yeah, I see it more as a marriage of souls, not physical.  :)  No bleach required.

I think that reveal would truly be my last episode of Supernatural. Seriously. (Good imagination though :))

[ahrtee]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think that reveal would truly be my last episode of Supernatural. Seriously. (Good imagination though :))

Well, you wanted a scenario that might work! :)

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

How about John was secretly a nephilim (we never did learn anything about his mother, did we?  And the MoL knew angels in Henry's time) which would explain why Sam and Dean were so important to the universe (and why Dean could look into an exploding angel's eyes without burning up and how Sam could hold Lucifer without exploding himself.) 

When John escaped from Hell, Chuck stashed his soul somewhere where he wouldn't interfere until he was needed (that's why Ash couldn't find him in heaven); and now he needs a new vessel so he can fight Michael and repopulate heaven to keep the lights on.  

*sigh* and then Chuck can recreate John's old vessel as a reward (JDM making a surprise appearance at the end of s. 14) and he and Mary can adopt Jack and head off to nephilim heaven--or rule the AU together.  *gag*

 

And icky as it sounds, Dean is actually older than Mary now.  But yeah, I see it more as a marriage of souls, not physical.  :)  No bleach required.

*nods* I like these ideas! And since we're all just throwing around theories based on our interpretations of the spoilers that we've gotten these scenarios are no less plausible than the other ones that have been mentioned :)

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Well, you wanted a scenario that might work! :)

It might, except it would kind of negate their current definition of a nephilim - more powerful than either of its parents. Why would John have ever allowed himself to be killed in the first place, when he could've just healed Dean? Oh, I know they would hand wave it away, but seriously, that would be a bridge too far for me.

[ahrtee]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It might, except it would kind of negate their current definition of a nephilim - more powerful than either of its parents. Why would John have ever allowed himself to be killed in the first place, when he could've just healed Dean? Oh, I know they would hand wave it away, but seriously, that would be a bridge too far for me.

Well, I'm assuming John didn't know anything about it till he got to heaven (otherwise, I'm sure he would have done things a lot differently--plus would have known about demons from the jump.)  After all, Jesse didn't know he was the antichrist until the boys told him.  And John was never around Cas or any angels who might out him.

And a nephilim (who knows how to use his power--since John would have been practicing for the past 12 years) could easily overcome an archangel, even from the AU.  And then he could teach Jack how to harness and use his powers for Good instead of Evil. (hah!)

Gee, writing for SPN can be fun if you don't have to worry about canon!

Edited May 1, 2018 by ahrtee

[DeeDee79]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It might, except it would kind of negate their current definition of a nephilim - more powerful than either of its parents.

The Nephilim that Cas killed in season 8 didn't appear to be all that strong. Maybe there's a difference between a regular Nephilim vs one who has an Archangel for a parent like Jack? 

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Gee, writing for SPN can be fun if you don't have to worry about canon!

Guess that's why Dabb likes it so much!

[ahrtee]

3 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Guess that's why Dabb likes it so much!

Nah--I think he's just in it for the prestige :)  He doesn't seem to like the show or the characters that much.  

Edited May 1, 2018 by ahrtee

[DeeDee79]

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Nah--I think he's just in it for the prestige :)  He doesn't seem to like the show or the characters that much.  

He definitely seems to like Lucifer and Mary; I guess Sam, Dean and Cas are too boring for him :(

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

But why though? What use would John be that Jensen would consider Dean 'stepping up'.

I will be livid. This would be a  sick joke IMO. The person  that destroyed Deans life. Ugh NO MO NO

[Myrelle]

Maybe Michael would take on John's appearance for some reason and we'd get those John/Dean scenes that Kripke wanted in Dream a Little Dream, or something similar. They've certainly been playing up Dean's resentfulness of John's parenting abilities in these last couple of seasons and Michael has to be carrying some of his own resentfulness of his own Dear Old Dad's parenting skills, too.

And IIRC, Jensen has also mentioned at cons or interviews that he'd love to confront John about his lack of parenting skills where it concerned Dean's childhood.

I really hope that John, himself, is not the new character though. That would be bad. Very bad.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Maybe Michael would take on John's appearance for some reason and we'd get those John/Dean scenes that Kripke wanted in Dream a Little Dream, or something similar. They've certainly been playing up Dean's resentfulness of John's parenting abilities in these last couple of seasons and Michael has to be carrying some of his own resentfulness of his own Dear Old Dad's parenting skills, too.

And IIRC, Jensen has also mentioned at cons or interviews that he'd love to confront John about his lack of parenting skills where it concerned Dean's childhood.

I really hope that John, himself, is not the new character though. That would be bad. Very bad.

This I could see.

[Castiels Cat]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I really feel this is the case. I've never seen Jared get so emotional over something that happens with/to anyone but Sam. As soon as the true face/angsty Sam came into play, his comments began to make sense. ETA: and if somehow he is getting to end Lucifer, Jensen's comment that the fans were gonna hate it... or would they?! (paraphrased) also makes sense. Unfortunately this is a more believable context (for me) for that whole thing than them actually getting excited over Dean.

I am assuming a quid pro quo arrangement is made between Dean and Michael. The concept was introduced with Amael's backstory.

What Michael wants is dependent on if he is actually crazy.

Either way he was stuck in the cage for hundreds of years wirh Lucifer.  Killing him is number one on the list unless Sam beats him to it 

I assume Dean will five him a status report on the threat of AU Michael invading our world and heaven's imminent collapse.  Either might be enough to move him to action. 

He may be really anxious and ready to be free. 

Maybe he wants revenge on Chuck. 

If he is crazy who knows what his .motivation may be.

They have set it up to happen.  So it will happen.

I can definitely see him using John's appearances to talk to Dean.it is the obvious choice.

5 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Ewww...I never thought about that!

First thing I thought of... .thankfully Baby stayed behind.

[companionenvy]

Don't remember who first suggested it, but one scenario for JDM's return would be if AU Michael resurrected John and was using him as a vessel. Which wouldn't lead to Dean playing John, it would lead to Dean as our Michael fighting John as AU Michael.

Sounds far-fetched to me, but it would be one pretty reasonable way for JDM to come back. Because the point of divergence for AU-verse seems to be tied to John's death/ Sam and Dean not being born, and the Winchesters as OTVs plot was centuries in the making, it stands to reason to me that John and his line would still be the best vessels for AU Michael. 

[SueB]

18 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

No. Thinking Dean makes an impulsive decision like he did when he sold his soul, or killed himself in season 6 and in Advanced Thanotology, or offered himself to any angel who could save Sam in season 9 or took on the Mark of Cain or sassed the Mob Boss in A Holy Man, or kissed the cursed girl in Love Hurts, or raced off to kill Loki alone, or decided to open the rift and go alone....

Do you see the pattern?

I got the same thing from the I have faith line.

Dean has faith in himself figuring out a way. And yes he has his plan B.  We saw that in Scoobynatural. We saw it on his face during the close-up when Cas mentioned that they need angel grace.

Dean!Michael. 

Kissing the cursed girl in Love Hurts is exactly the kind of snap decision I expect.  Dean is often the first to cotton-on to a situation.  Like when Jo started talking about making a bomb, Dean got it near instantaneously.  Real-time improvisation is a Dean Winchester hallmark - in fighting, in tactical manuevers, in arguments.  The promo monkeys may call it 'impulsive' but Dean will see something a few seconds before the rest and hop on it before anyone else makes a sacrifice.  And THAT will be the key.  Less slow-dread like the soul bomb and more 'leap into the breach' like kissing the girl.  And there is literally NOTHING Dean Winchester won't do to protect Sam, Mary & Cas.  He might not make an instantaneous decision (yet) for Jack, as much as he likes Jack because Jack has mad skillz that he can bring to bear.  OTOH, in AT Dean said he didn't matter.  If there is something that Dean can do that in Dean's mind keeps a more valuable player on the board, then that will meet the definition of something "important" Billie wants him to do.  

Speaking of Billie, rewatching "First Blood", I think Billie may have bent the rules with her deal with the Winchesters. While I think cosmic consequences could still play out, I think Billie's consequence was becoming Death, Cas' was to wind up in the Empty by the end of the season.  Not sure if/how the boys will have consequences.  

[Myrelle]

9 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Don't remember who first suggested it, but one scenario for JDM's return would be if AU Michael resurrected John and was using him as a vessel. Which wouldn't lead to Dean playing John, it would lead to Dean as our Michael fighting John as AU Michael.

Wow. I would absolutely love this.

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Wow. I would absolutely love this.

I suggested this.  AU Michael is fully capable of psychological warfare per using Kevin as a bomb to destroy Jack's confidence.

He knows what was in Mary's head and knows that the Winchesters stopped the Apocalypse in their world and the whole vessel stuff... everything.  He knows she believes they will come for her and stop him.  I would do it if I were him. It is an advantage 

[ILoveReading]

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-beat-the-devil/175300/

Promo photos.

I don't know why they insist on trying to make me feel sympathy for Lucifer.  I have none. 

Number 6-  I think I need to go sit in the freezer until I cool down. 

Number 4- Is Sam looking at Dean and why is he looking at him like that.

Edited May 1, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Bobcatkitten]

Interesting pics. So is Sister Jo in this ep? Seems weird that they have just completely dropped her without any explanation. 

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

Kissing the cursed girl in Love Hurts is exactly the kind of snap decision I expect.  Dean is often the first to cotton-on to a situation.  Like when Jo started talking about making a bomb, Dean got it near instantaneously.  Real-time improvisation is a Dean Winchester hallmark - in fighting, in tactical manuevers, in arguments.  The promo monkeys may call it 'impulsive' but Dean will see something a few seconds before the rest and hop on it before anyone else makes a sacrifice.  And THAT will be the key.  Less slow-dread like the soul bomb and more 'leap into the breach' like kissing the girl.  And there is literally NOTHING Dean Winchester won't do to protect Sam, Mary & Cas.  He might not make an instantaneous decision (yet) for Jack, as much as he likes Jack because Jack has mad skillz that he can bring to bear.  OTOH, in AT Dean said he didn't matter.  If there is something that Dean can do that in Dean's mind keeps a more valuable player on the board, then that will meet the definition of something "important" Billie wants him to do.  

Speaking of Billie, rewatching "First Blood", I think Billie may have bent the rules with her deal with the Winchesters. While I think cosmic consequences could still play out, I think Billie's consequence was becoming Death, Cas' was to wind up in the Empty by the end of the season.  Not sure if/how the boys will have consequences.  

I think Dean has work to do  and that is his consequences.  Death has always been interested in Dean in an unusual way.  I now think it is because Dean changed fate by changing Chuck's story (per Chuck) by showing up at Stull and that act had very specific fallout that messed things up big time... No Apocalypse.  Michael in Cage.  And Eventually Lucifer Rising Again and Sam Alive. 

Since then the universe has beenbteyingvto course correct AND Death has been trying to teach Dean to help him understand so he can do what needs to be done.  Death has given Dean a lesson on the natural order, showed him why people need to die when they are fated to do so, asked him to kill Sam and gave him his scythe to fo so in order for the death to be permanent at great risk to himself, and lectured him on choice and his importance in the grand scheme (mirroring Chuck), and Death's reaper talked to him about butterfly effect and natural order.

He is being prepped for something very big.  My spec... Dean!Michael, the Apocalypse, fix Heaven, let Sam die.

I think Sam has been living well past his number because of Dean's inability to let him go and eventually fate will catch up.

But this is Supernatural so somebody will resurrect him as a favor.  Dean just hard to let him go.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Aeryn13]

Gabriel and Rowena tag-team Lucifer? Okay. The promo showed Rowena having a confrontation with Lucifer in the bunker and Gabriel is going with them to the AU-world (or wherever they are at first) so this must happen earlier. Are they seriously gonna take Lucifer to the bunker for "safe-keeping"? Seriously?

[catrox14]

39 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Interesting pics. So is Sister Jo in this ep? Seems weird that they have just completely dropped her without any explanation. 

I really wouldn't put it past the writers to have Sister Jo show up and then she and Dean kiss and then she possesses him...for reasons.  Maybe that's who Dean is LOL

[belbar]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Interesting pics. So is Sister Jo in this ep? Seems weird that they have just completely dropped her without any explanation.

I think that Sister Jo left when Lucifer choked her in Heaven. She said "and now you lost me" or something similar and left. Apparently he didn't need her anymore and allowed it (which by the way is not quite usual for him, but whatever).

Seems to me that after that, Lucifer himself left Heaven too (and that's why Castiel didn't see him I guess) and is back on earth. Why, who  knows, apparently to start a new pity party in a bar attended by Gabriel (shouldn't he recognize him by the way?).

And shouldn't Gabriel be working with Sam and Dean as per the episdode description? but by the look of the pictures he's at the Main Street bar with Rowena who showed up with the Archangel blade (so back to try to kill Lucifer) while Sam, Dean and apparently Cas are in a country tour hunting God knows what.

But this is what starts the allegedly change of course for one of our guys. So or the hints are (as usual) highly misleading, or the episode is going to be totally crammed or I'm missing not something but a lot.

[Bobcatkitten]

I assume Gabriel's help is his grace to open the rift. I never imagined him going over with them to fight. 

[belbar]

31 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I assume Gabriel's help is his grace to open the rift. I never imagined him going over with them to fight. 

Yep that's what I 'd thought too. It was the only "valid" reason for his reappearance. But the episode description (accordingto the article linked) says that Gabriel, Cas, Sam and Dean must work together (literally those words). Maybe the work is offering his grace though (but I would'n call that work. Who knows)

[BoxManLocke]

37 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I assume Gabriel's help is his grace to open the rift. I never imagined him going over with them to fight. 

He was in the AU with the boys in the promo. I guess he goes back out right after ?

 

Him staying behind with Rowena means the Lucifer scenes will be a much bigger deal than I thought, which is a huge bummer. Lucifer sucks so much, you can even tell from the goddamn promo pics.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

He was in the AU with the boys in the promo. I guess he goes back out right after ?

 

Him staying behind with Rowena means the Lucifer scenes will be a much bigger deal than I thought, which is a huge bummer. Lucifer sucks so much, you can even tell from the goddamn promo pics.

Responding in Bitter Spoilers (because I'm bitter, lol).

[SueB]

Wet Winchesters (I noted the wet hair in the pics).  

Wait... I was supposed to be looking for more than that?  My bad.

Seriously, I don't know the sequence at all for this episode.  I don't think Luci gets the shiv though.  Much to my dismay.

[Castiels Cat]

7 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Gabriel and Rowena tag-team Lucifer? Okay. The promo showed Rowena having a confrontation with Lucifer in the bunker and Gabriel is going with them to the AU-world (or wherever they are at first) so this must happen earlier. Are they seriously gonna take Lucifer to the bunker for "safe-keeping"? Seriously?

I hope they have learned to cuff their prisoners by both hands and not the one handed Styne maneuver.

[gonzosgirrl]

Is this the same kind of monster that cane through the Wayward rift?

 

[ILoveReading]

 

Sneak peek

Why can't they just use Gabriel's grace.

[Bobcatkitten]

36 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

 

Sneak peek

Why can't they just use Gabriel's grace.

Exactly. WTF writers????

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

Sneak peek

Why can't they just use Gabriel's grace.

Okay I love Cas in that scene.  That thing is that  Cas ...isn't afraid of Lucifer. He had a fight with him and got right up in his face. He knows Lucifer wasn't at full power...so I'm going to assume that Cas is saying that so Sam doesn't feel alone and like he's the only one afraid of Lucifer. I don't think Dean is afraid of Lucifer either TBH.  I think he's afraid of Sam being harmed by Lucifer. 

And also, Sam's terror of Lucifer is completely opposite of him facing him down in the cage in s11. There is zero logical through line from Sam saying no to Lucifer again and lecturing him to....dun dun dun "Lucifer True Face" has been terrorizing Sam since....5 episodes ago?  Sigh. 

I do think it's ridiculous that none of them are even mentioning Michael at all.  I mean he's right there. In the cage. Fully graced up. No reason at all to not try at this point. I'm hoping Dean will be all....well, you know what about Michael's grace. Honestly, if the show never goes there that just makes them all look incredibly stupid especially with the Cage being specifically mentioned. 

[Aeryn13]

They are actually going after Lucifer for his grace? When they have Gabriel on their team? Oy. 

Cas is making a good point, Lucifer already is out and about. So it`s not like they can make THAT situation worse. The risk is pretty much on them here which is fair. As for Lucy never stopping being the responsibility, I`d say God could have dealt with him but he did the usual Chuck-thing of "eh, why bother" so the buck is back with them. 

Now I do get that Sam is super-afraid of Lucifer again these days but wasn`t he just last episode roaring for vengeance? A weakened, de-graced Lucifer would be much easier to defeat and have your vengeance on so I would have thought he`d be onboard. 

Episode is written by Berens so I`m not expecting anything good.    

Edited May 2, 2018 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now I do get that Sam is super-afraid of Lucifer again these days but wasn`t he just last episode roaring for vengeance? A weakened, de-graced Lucifer would be much easier to defeat and have your vengeance on so I would have thought he`d be onboard

This is true. I don't get what in the world they are doing with Sam here. Was it an attack of hubris for Sam in that episode.  I won't be surprised if they say that Dean talked him out of the vengeance so now he's scared again. I mean none if this makes sense TBH.  Sam's all over the place.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam's all over the place.

Same with Dean.  Because just last episode he didn't want Sam anywhere near Lucifer, or even thinking of going near him because of the whole revenge thing. 

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Same with Dean.  Because just last episode he didn't want Sam anywhere near Lucifer, or even thinking of going near him because of the whole revenge thing. 

I said a long time ago that maybe Jensen would play Lucifer. And right now I can see Dean thinking he would say yes to Lucifer to keep Sam from being harmed by him. Granted it doesn't mesh with Singer saying it's a character we haven't see for a long time, but maybe that's been an intentional foiler.

I can see Jared wondering what Dean's take on Lucifer would be.  And well, everyone and their brother has been Lucifer, so why not give Jensen a shot at it too.  

[Bobcatkitten]

From TVLine.

 

I want Dean back on Supernatural — the good ol’, protective big brother Dean. Please tell me we’ll get some great brotherly moments soon! —JJ
Remember how star Jared Padalecki told us Sam would go through something “pretty harrowing and terrifying” in this Thursday’s episode? Well, Dean has a very emotional, big brother reaction to it. On the lighter side, you can look forward to some comedic scenes as the brothers, Cas and Gabriel awkwardly land in apocalypse world — let’s just say personal space is invaded — and Rowena does something that leaves the boys’ mouths agape.

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

From TVLine.

 

I want Dean back on Supernatural — the good ol’, protective big brother Dean. Please tell me we’ll get some great brotherly moments soon! —JJ
Remember how star Jared Padalecki told us Sam would go through something “pretty harrowing and terrifying” in this Thursday’s episode? Well, Dean has a very emotional, big brother reaction to it. On the lighter side, you can look forward to some comedic scenes as the brothers, Cas and Gabriel awkwardly land in apocalypse world — let’s just say personal space is invaded — and Rowena does something that leaves the boys’ mouths agape.

In other words;

Water is wet

The Sky is blue

The grass is green. 

I do wonder what Rowena does.  I'm guessing she's going to sell out one of the brothers, probably Sam since he can kill her.

[Aeryn13]

I`m gonna brace myself for an obnoxious episode. 

I checked the promo again and with the sneak peak and the picture the progression of the story seems to be:

- for whatever reason they decide they need the grace from Lucifer and not the archangel they have on hand

- Gabe and Rowena set a trap for him

- that has to work to some degree because everyone hop-skips through another rift, including Gabriel  (note how Sam gives the orders when they are there, no surprise from Berens)

- they are attacked by some kind of vampire-like creature and follow that into a cave/bunker-like structure

- Lucifer has likely been brought back to the bunker where he has a confrontation with Rowena right in front of the rift, gee, I wonder what happens

- spoiler alert: Lucifer goes through the rift since he meets up with Jack here

 

Now the last part makes me iffy on Lucifer meeting the gang again in AU-world. Or even if he does, it would be just for a hot minute. There is not enough time in the episode for a big thing with Lucifer and them.

Meaning that "harrowing thing" will have to do with Sam and those creatures most likely. Is Sam gonna get "turned"? And cured 5 minutes later? Is Dean gonna scream "Sammy" five times in a row? 

They are all doing their thing again in episode 22 so this would be a rather self-contained story.  

[Lemuria]

44 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

From TVLine.

 

I want Dean back on Supernatural — the good ol’, protective big brother Dean. Please tell me we’ll get some great brotherly moments soon! —JJ

So Dean is not Dean if he isn't all "good ol', protective big brother Dean."  Got it.  Heaven forfend that Dean should have some other concerns or dare to put anyone else--especially himself--first.  Then he's just not Dean.

Until, of course, his "good ol'" protectiveness is deemed by Sam to be putting him at the kids table.  Then it's nasty, meanie, bossy Dean.

Edited to add:  I agree with Aeryn's spec on the ep totally.  

Edited May 2, 2018 by Lemuria

[Myrelle]

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m gonna brace myself for an obnoxious episode. 

I checked the promo again and with the sneak peak and the picture the progression of the story seems to be:

- for whatever reason they decide they need the grace from Lucifer and not the archangel they have on hand

- Gabe and Rowena set a trap for him

- that has to work to some degree because everyone hop-skips through another rift, including Gabriel  (note how Sam gives the orders when they are there, no surprise from Berens)

- they are attacked by some kind of vampire-like creature and follow that into a cave/bunker-like structure

- Lucifer has likely been brought back to the bunker where he has a confrontation with Rowena right in front of the rift, gee, I wonder what happens

- spoiler alert: Lucifer goes through the rift since he meets up with Jack here

 

Now the last part makes me iffy on Lucifer meeting the gang again in AU-world. Or even if he does, it would be just for a hot minute. There is not enough time in the episode for a big thing with Lucifer and them.

Meaning that "harrowing thing" will have to do with Sam and those creatures most likely. Is Sam gonna get "turned"? And cured 5 minutes later? Is Dean gonna scream "Sammy" five times in a row? 

They are all doing their thing again in episode 22 so this would be a rather self-contained story.  

My eyes are all on the finale as being the next decent episode that we're likely to get and this only because Jensen seems jazzed about it.

Dabb is still writing it, though.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

- for whatever reason they decide they need the grace from Lucifer and not the archangel they have on hand

- Gabe and Rowena set a trap for him

I wonder if Sam's behavior  is a red herring. Something just doesn't make any sense for him to be all "Kill Lucifer" to "I'm too afraid to face him".  So, assuming that Berens is not totally screwing this up then I have to wonder why the flip.  Could Sam be trying to keep Dean and Cas away from Lucifer so Gabe and Rowena can kill him with the agreement that Gabe give over some of the grace after they kill him? I don't know why Sam would keep that a secret unless Sam is afraid that Dean and Cas will be pissed that he wanted to kill Lucifer instead of trying to use his grace.  I dunno

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I wonder if Sam's behavior  is a red herring. Something just doesn't make any sense for him to be all "Kill Lucifer" to "I'm too afraid to face him".  So, assuming that Berens is not totally screwing this up then I have to wonder why the flip.  Could Sam be trying to keep Dean and Cas away from Lucifer so Gabe and Rowena can kill him with the agreement that Gabe give over some of the grace after they kill him? I don't know why Sam would keep that a secret unless Sam is afraid that Dean and Cas will be pissed that he wanted to kill Lucifer instead of trying to use his grace.  I dunno

The only way this makes sense is if its a sneak peek of the ending scene and whatever happens to Sam involves Lucifer and they've already exhausted the last of Gabriels grace.

[SueB]

Gabriel was pretty much out of grace in the last episode.  Rather than wait the weeks (?) it would take to get him to power up, they just go after the nearest next source: Lucifer.

As for Sam being afraid - I think he's consistently been terrified of Lucifer.  And rightly so.  Even if he showed a brave face in S11 in the cage, doesn't mean he wasn't terrified.  And he really HOPE Lucifer gets taken down by Rowena but he hasn't set off to go on a 'mano a mano' revenge mission targeting Lucifer. 

So, I don't see any inconsistency.  Lucifer terrorized Sam in the cage for over a century and recently again for at least a day.  Lucifer terrorized Rowena through two deaths. Lucifer terrorized Cas even though Cas said "yes" to being his vessel.  In short, everyone has a decent reason to want to avoid him.  Depending on his power, he's a sadistic psychopath. 

And Cas isn't wrong, they expected to "hear" about Lucifer but the trail went cold post Sister Jo.  I'm sure they scrub the daily 'wires' looking for Luci-signs but since he was in heaven for a while, finding him wouldn't have been easy.  

[SueB]

Trigger Warning for any anti-Mary's:

EW interview of Sam Smith

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is this the same kind of monster that cane through the Wayward rift?

 

No.  The Bad Place Monsters were more rotted looking. 

[SueB]

Well, this is semi-alarming:

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, SueB said:

Trigger Warning for any anti-Mary's:

EW interview of Sam Smith

No.  The Bad Place Monsters were more rotted looking. 

Thanks - I had a vague memory of those ears/teeth.

I think I'll guard my BP and skip the Sam Smith interview, lol. I hope we get some season ending interviews with Jensen and Jared. Of course I'd be just as happy to hear more from Sam S or Mark P provided they were exit interviews. :-P

19 minutes ago, SueB said:

Well, this is semi-alarming:

I'm guessing that relies entirely on who and what you're hoping to see. Unfortunately, I think I'm probably fully prepared.

[ahrtee]

29 minutes ago, SueB said:

No.  The Bad Place Monsters were more rotted looking. 

I can't find a picture to compare, but it reminds me of the wendigo mask Ben made (and Dean had in Baby's trunk...)