Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

One of the characters is Naomi.  There was a pic posted of her on set and it looked like she was wearing her Naomi outfit.

Ahhh, interesting.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Diane said:

She directed an episode, she may not have been acting.  She has directed a least one more episode in a previous season.

It's how she was dressed in the tweet.  You can see her Naomi outfit.

[Diane]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

It's how she was dressed in the tweet.  You can see her Naomi outfit.

link?

[Wayward Son]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If they bring back Crowley, it would be a re-cast and I think it would piss off most of the audience if it's not Mark Sheppard.

I can't fathom them doing that other than to be assholes.

Unless they meant it’s going to be a massive con and Mark S makes a surprising last minute appearance in the finale. 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

One of the characters is Naomi.  There was a pic posted of her on set and it looked like she was wearing her Naomi outfit.

I really hope the AU character isn't an AU Dean because that would be the biggest cop out on the Jensen isn't going to play Dean.  An AU Dean is still a version of Dean. 

TBH, the last thing this season needs is more characters crammed in.  The final two episodes are going to be so jammed packed nothing is going to make sense.

I'd be hard-pressed to describe Naomi as a beloved character though.

I also have to disagree that AU!Dean would be a version of Dean, at least as I spec'd earlier. Any character he plays is going to look like Dean, probably sound like Dean (unless Jensen uses his own voice or an accent), so playing a character born of John and Mary, but NOT raised as Dean Winchester would be entirely different. That said, Jensen said Dean steps up in a big way, so to me that says our Dean makes some sort of conscious decision/choice. I don't think him playing AU!Dean is likely.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Unless they meant it’s going to be a massive con and Mark S makes a surprising last minute appearance in the finale.

I can't see it. He'll be destroying his own reputation on Twitter. It's not like when Jim Beaver was faux-whining on Twitter about not being in s12.  Mark was pretty clear he would not be returning ever. And he's pretty well talked about how unhappy he was with Crowley's SL and final demise and the lines being cut.

[ILoveReading]

This is why I think its Naomi.

[catrox14]

"Beloved" might be a little misleading. Some villains are beloved like Azazel in the sense of being a great villain. John was arguably not beloved in all corners of fandom.

Ellen is the best bet for beloved in the sense of truly loved

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is why I think its Naomi.

I'm with you. I think it's a reasonable and likely spec on your part.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is why I think its Naomi.

I guess that could be her angel-drone suit - but he refers to them as directors...

[Diane]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is why I think its Naomi.

If so it will be ep 19 that is the one that Nina Lopez Corrado directed:

ANGELS, WITCHES AND REAPERS, OH MY – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) must stop Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell), who is on a deadly mission. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) looks to heaven to recruit angels for an impending invasion but is shocked by not only what he finds, but who.

[Bobcatkitten]

Could be she is one of the two and the other is the beloved one? 

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I can't see it. He'll be destroying his own reputation on Twitter. It's not like when Jim Beaver was faux-whining on Twitter about not being in s12.  Mark was pretty clear he would not be returning ever. And he's pretty well talked about how unhappy he was with Crowley's SL and final demise and the lines being cut.

I’m not saying I believe it; I actually agree with you. I was just saying perhaps the TVLine writer was speculating that. 

 

Personally, I still think it’s going to be John/JDM. 

[Aeryn13]

The spoiler sheet tumblr speculated about Naomi being in an episode for some time. As for "beloved", I wouldn`t make too much of the PTBs using such terms. There is always a lot of hyperbole involved with such spoilers that leads to people going "that`s it?" when they finally see it. 

I don`t think Mark Sheppard would be coming back. He doesn`t strike me as a person who would flip-flop after a burning like that.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Aeryn13

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Could be she is one of the two and the other is the beloved one? 

I used the word beloved, but the actual quote is Scheduling has been really difficult with everybody because they’re all working actors, but we’ve managed to cram pretty much everybody that the audience loves into this final run of episodes.

I just can't see how that would include Naomi, but it's also Singer talking and he's just plain weird, so.

Did anybody love Naomi? Did anybody love-to-hate Naomi? Did anybody even like Naomi? Did anybody ever need to see Naomi again?

Edited April 2, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I guess that could be her angel-drone suit - but he refers to them as directors...

I don't think that eliminates Amanda also appearing as Naomi in an episode being directed by Nina. That's what I'm getting from that pic and comment. 

[Bobcatkitten]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I used the word beloved, but the actual quote is Scheduling has been really difficult with everybody because they’re all working actors, but we’ve managed to cram pretty much everybody that the audience loves into this final run of episodes.

I just can't see how that would include Naomi, but it's also Singer talking and he's just plain weird, so.

Did anybody love Naomi? Did anybody love-to-hate Naomi? Did anybody even like Naomi? Did anybody ever need to see Naomi again?

The answer to all your questions is no.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think that eliminates Amanda also appearing as Naomi in an episode being directed by Nina. That's what I'm getting from that pic and comment. 

Could very well be. Maybe they worked her in because she's... there? Because I can hardly think of a character I'm less excited to see again. Nothing against Amanda, who is probably one of the strongest guest actors they've ever had - but Naomi? Really?

Just saw Diane's post....

11 minutes ago, Diane said:

If so it will be ep 19 that is the one that Nina Lopez Corrado directed:

ANGELS, WITCHES AND REAPERS, OH MY – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) must stop Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell), who is on a deadly mission. Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) looks to heaven to recruit angels for an impending invasion but is shocked by not only what he finds, but who.

So I guess Cas could/would be shocked by finding a dead angel in Heaven. But not even angel deaths stick these days, so it wouldn't really be shocking to me. LOL.

Edited April 2, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So I guess Cas could/would be shocked by finding a dead angel in Heaven. But not even angel deaths stick these days, so it wouldn't really be shocking to me. LOL.

Did we see Naomi die on screen? Did Cas kill her? I legit can't remember.

[Casseiopeia]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Did we see Naomi die on screen? Did Cas kill her? I legit can't remember.

We saw her dead Metatron killed her with the drill.

[Bobcatkitten]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Could very well be. Maybe they worked her in because she's... there? Because I can hardly think of a character I'm less excited to see again. Nothing against Amanda, who is probably one of the strongest guest actors they've ever had - but Naomi? Really?

Just saw Diane's post....

So I guess Cas could/would be shocked by finding a dead angel in Heaven. But not even angel deaths stick these days, so it wouldn't really be shocking to me. LOL.

I assumed his surprise is finding Lucifer and Sister Jo are ruling heaven. 

[Wayward Son]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Did we see Naomi die on screen? Did Cas kill her? I legit can't remember.

Metatron drilled into her brain using her own torture tool if IIRC only rather than the mild drilling Naomi did in order to memory manipulate it was a full on attack. Since it wasn’t death by angel blade I suppose they could say she was just severely injured and no actually dead.

[ILoveReading]

I think beloved/loved equals anyone who is available and affordable.

I think Naomi would fit with the episode 19 synopsis about Cas running into someone surprising.

[Jonesy]

Pretty sure it's Naomi that Cas is surprised to run into and NO Naomi isn't very beloved but that wouldn't stop them from saying she is anyway.

[Bobcatkitten]

If that's their idea of getting the gang back together that's even worse than getting the gang back together. Because you know fans are going to get their hopes up for big names and just be disappointed. 

[Bobcatkitten]

Wasn't there a recent mention of another crazy special episode idea they are considering that would even top Scoobynatural. Looking for the link. 

 

Also I just had a flash - CAIN!!!!

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, scribe95 said:

Also I just had a flash - CAIN!!!!

That would be amazing! I think he counts as beloved or well loved. I just hope it would be Tim O. , if he's well enough now. That part shouldn't be played by anyone other than Tim O...(or Jensen as Cain!Dean as I've spec'd elsewhere here) 

[Jonesy]

2 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Wasn't there a recent mention of another crazy special episode idea they are considering that would even top Scoobynatural. Looking for the link. 

 

Also I just had a flash - CAIN!!!!

They are thinking of something for next season.  With regards to bringing people back, it works if they bring the right people back--Gabriel is fantastic as was Chuck.

[catrox14]

Maybe Aaron comes back with his Golem?

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Jakes said:

With regards to bringing people back, it works if they bring the right people back--Gabriel is fantastic as was Chuck.

And I have the complete opposite opinion. Bringing back Chuck, making him formally God and bringing back Gabriel was a huge mistake IMO.

But I'm thinking what about Balthazar?? He was pretty well liked.

[Jonesy]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And I have the complete opposite opinion. Bringing back Chuck, making him formally God and bringing back Gabriel was a huge mistake IMO.

But I'm thinking what about Balthazar?? He was pretty well liked.

Yes we do think differently--Chuck and Gabriel might be best 2 brought back ever...only John would top them imo.  And I loved Lucifer back too though I know here that is a minority opinion.  I do like Balthazar a lot but I doubt he's back.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Jakes

[companionenvy]

I'd put my money on Charlie because of the "someone everyone loves" phrasing and because she could plausibly exist in the AU, but in other respects, John would make a lot of sense. JDM hinted at a return, he's a former Michael vessel in a season that seems like its heading toward Dean being a Michael vessel, and he's arguably due for a meeting with resurrected Mary -- although if they were committed to bringing John back, I would think the show would have given a little bit more development to Mary's feelings about John and how the boys were raised. 

It might also give them a way to write off Mary. Last year, I wouldn't have been happy with the season ending with Mary choosing to return to heaven. Now, I could see her either going off with John to heaven or voluntarily staying in the AU and buy it as an ending that is more than gratuitous Dean (and, to a lesser extent, Sam)-whump. My sense now is that while the boys understandably can't cope with the thought of Mary trapped and tortured in the AU world, they could live with her deciding to move on even if it meant her no longer being a part of their lives. It would require at least one more Mary and the boys-centric episode for me to get on board, but if the writers gave us that I could see a satisfying conclusion where she leaves. Especially as, now that we know the show is continuing, I think they'll have difficulty integrating her in the future.

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

This is why I think its Naomi.

I would guess Nina was doing prep for her episode while Amanda was directing her last episode, but who knows? I wouldn't say that Naomi is a beloved character in fandom, but I think TPTB love Amanda Tapping, so maybe they asked her to do a little part at the end of the season?

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

*quoted wrong post.  Above quote is from @Jakes

Not really.  Jared and Jensen are the highest paid actors on the CW and if this a contract year salaries are most likely to go up. 

As for the angel imagery I don't think it means anything.  There was an episode a few years back ( i can't remember what one) and there was a big picture of Michael in the back ground.  Fans tweeted Jim Michaels and asked if it was significant.  He was like "yes of course, we take so much care with these things." Shocker it turned out to mean nothing.  Last year when they had the perfect opportunity to reference Dean's connection to Michael, they gave the spear to Sam. 

So I don't see any bread crumbs laid.  I think its something they decided at the last minute.   I still don't even know what the mainstory line or villian is this year.  There are too many irons in the fire and none are getting the attention they deserve.  The last thing they needed to do was add another storyline with Gabriel.  If Dean is going to vessel Michael, whats the point? 

As for Mark P, I don't see him going anywhere, unfortunately.  He was only missing from Paley because he was filming.  I don't think it means anything status wise that he wasn't there.

I have reservations and I know that there are multiple ways this could set Dean's character up to fail, but at this point anything is preferable to Valium Dean.

Dean carefully picked up the broken pieces of the spear for safe keeping.  I thought that caring fir the broken weaoin was significaht because only Michael coyld fix it.

I don't think Sam getting to poke Ramiel with the pointy end of a stick whilst he was distracted by Dean means much. Itis just yet another one of the inexplicably easy kills they keep giving Sam for some reasons. He kerps,getting tossed aside and,then picking up weapons and walking into distracted villains.  It has become a,Sam trope much as being tied to a chair is.

[Castiels Cat]

On 4/2/2018 at 8:34 AM, Aeryn13 said:

I thought they would shelf him for a bit after "Beat the Devil" - not write out of course but just put somewhere for further use next Season. But apparently he remains in the thick of things. Don`t know what happens there because right now he simply isn`t a power player. Even Heaven, he only rules on a sham because angels are terribly stupid.

He needs archangel grace to level up again and the only avenue I see right now is him stealing it from AU!Michael as "dramatic irony". But that requires brining AU!Michael in a really vulnerable position first because right now he would wipe the floor with everyone with the possible exception of Jack. 

It could be Rowena gets involved there and whatever she means to use against Lucifer accidentally works on AU!Michael and helps Lucifer. 

 

Roweeeena definitely has a plan. 

Well everyone and their mama has a plan.  It is leading up to a Mexican clusterFCK.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Bearing in mind @Aeryn13‘s reminder that AU!John is dead there’s only one thing I can think of. What if AU!Michael resurrects AU!John to act as a vessel in response to Dean saying yes to our Michael?  

 

Yes, I know he has a vessel, but thereotically true vessel Dean would give our Michael a large boost over AU, and it would make sense for him to seek a Winchester bloodline vessel of his own to somewhat balance it out. 

I was mulling this,twist over when I heard Jeffrey's recent comment.  Talk about angst.

[MysteryGuest]

I'll be annoyed with AU Dean because they specifically said that the AU is the world where Sam and Dean never were born.  I'm pretty much resigned to it being Michael, even though that wouldn't be my choice.  And if we're getting Michael back, what about Adam?  Isn't he stuck in the cage with Michael?  If they're bringing back every character ever on the show, it would be nice to give Adam a decent ending.

I'll be surprised if JDM comes back this season.  I know he said he'd be back before the end of the show, and Jensen said the same thing a few years ago.  I just don't see how they bring him back this year, unless it's as someone stated above, and it's a way to resolve the Mary character.  She can go back to heaven with John.  

As far as beloved characters go, I'd say Charlie, Ellen, maybe Jo.  I'd say Rufus, but I think he's already dead in the AU as well as in our world, so I'm not sure that would work.  

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

'd say Rufus, but I think he's already dead in the AU as well as in our world, so I'm not sure that would work.  

When was it said he was dead in the AU? I just don't remember.

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'd say Rufus, but I think he's already dead in the AU as well as in our world, so I'm not sure that would work.  

He wasn't last season when we first met Bobby. My hope is Rufus because I think that could help make AU Bobby more interesting and entertaining, but I'd be down for Ash, Jo, Ellen and I personally think Meg 1.0 could be fascinating if the show didn't waste the opportunity. 

7 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm pretty much resigned to it being Michael, even though that wouldn't be my choice.  And if we're getting Michael back, what about Adam?  Isn't he stuck in the cage with Michael?  If they're bringing back every character ever on the show, it would be nice to give Adam a decent ending.

This is why I have a hard time wrapping my head around it being Micheal. I think the main reason Micheal stayed in the cage for the Amara fight was that they didn't want to touch the Adam issue with a 10-foot-pole. Plus, I still think they're being too obvious about it. 

The more I think about it, I think it will be Gabriel.

[MysteryGuest]

Just now, catrox14 said:

When was it said he was dead in the AU? I just don't remember.

It wasn't specifically said.  I just assumed that Bobby named his rifle after his friend Rufus who had died.  I suppose it could be just a coincidence, but I didn't take it that way.  

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

It wasn't specifically said.  I just assumed that Bobby named his rifle after his friend Rufus who had died.  I suppose it could be just a coincidence, but I didn't take it that way.  

I believe Bobby said Rufus was busy loading angel blade bullets so that when the "dicks" upstairs heard about the rift and showed up, he and Rufus would go to town on them. I definitely got the impression Rufus was alive.

[catrox14]

Thanks @MysteryGuest

Re Adam

To me that's not a big deal because I'm guessing that Adam was long dead and it's just his meatsuit now.  If they try to get Michael out of the Cage, they could just have a hunter's funeral for him and then Dean becomes his vessel.

[Diane]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And I have the complete opposite opinion. Bringing back Chuck, making him formally God and bringing back Gabriel was a huge mistake IMO.

But I'm thinking what about Balthazar?? He was pretty well liked.

Sebastian Roche has been pretty busy, I would love to see him back.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

He wasn't last season when we first met Bobby. My hope is Rufus because I think that could help make AU Bobby more interesting and entertaining, but I'd be down for Ash, Jo, Ellen and I personally think Meg 1.0 could be fascinating if the show didn't waste the opportunity. 

This is why I have a hard time wrapping my head around it being Micheal. I think the main reason Micheal stayed in the cage for the Amara fight was that they didn't want to touch the Adam issue with a 10-foot-pole. Plus, I still think they're being too obvious about it. 

The more I think about it, I think it will be Gabriel.

I've been considering Gabriel, too. His vessel looks pretty messed up right now, and who knows what else Assmodeus will do/has done. Dean was Michael's perfect vessel, but that still means he's a vessel that could contain an archangel. I could see Dean making a deal with him. And they do share a deep affection for porn. :)

[MysteryGuest]

11 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I believe Bobby said Rufus was busy loading angel blade bullets so that when the "dicks" upstairs heard about the rift and showed up, he and Rufus would go to town on them. I definitely got the impression Rufus was alive.

I just re-watched the scene, and when Bobby's talking about the "dick" angels coming, he says "when they show up, me and Rufus go to work (while lifting his gun up to indicate the gun is Rufus).  He's loaded with a hundred rounds, cast from old angel blades."  He's clearly talking about his gun in the scene, not Rufus the person.  Now I suppose he could have named his gun Rufus just because he liked the name, but I assumed it was after his friend, Rufus.  Maybe it was just meant to be a funny homage to our Rufus, and there is was no AU Rufus.  I guess we'll need to wait and see who shows up.

[Jonesy]

Here's something to ponder:

 

In Jared's instagram announcement about season 14 below it is a comment by MATT COHEN saying that he can't wait to be back!  So is that Michael related?

Edited April 3, 2018 by Jakes

[DittyDotDot]

16 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Here's something to ponder:

 

In Jared's instagram announcement about season 14 below it is a comment by MATT COHEN saying that he can't wait to be back!  So is that Michael related?

Or, John-related. I've been saying for a couple years that they could do something with Matt Cohen as John since JDM has been unavailable. Of course, I don't think he could play their father now, but depending on the story, they could do some wee Winchester flashbacks with Matt.

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Or, John-related. I've been saying for a couple years that they could do something with Matt Cohen as John since JDM has been unavailable. Of course, I don't think he could play their father now, but depending on the story, they could do some wee Winchester flashbacks with Matt.

Also noticed hashtags--#JW, #M...maybe he's joking around.  Who knows?

[bozodegama]

Oy, stop with the bringing people back already.  Naomi?  Seriously. What’s the point?  Why not just have Gabriel in some episodes or go jailbreak real Bobby out of heavens prison.  That I’d like to see.

[companionenvy]

6 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

go jailbreak real Bobby out of heavens prison.  That I’d like to see.

Yes, please. It isn't even that I think it would be an amazing plotline, it is just that it is really, really going to bug me if our (chronological) last vision of our Bobby is him stuck in heaven's jail. Sure, we can assume that he got out in one of the innumerable crises in heaven, but we need some confirmation of it. 

[Lemuria]

5 hours ago, Jakes said:

Pretty sure it's Naomi that Cas is surprised to run into and NO Naomi isn't very beloved but that wouldn't stop them from saying she is anyway.

I can't remember--does Cas know that Lucifer is back in Heaven?  Because if not, I rather think he'd find that surprising.

As to its possibly being AU!Dean, I still feel that JA's comment--that it is someone we haven't seen in years--could not possibly apply to AU!Dean, a character we have never, ever seen at all, much less years ago.  Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume that JA was giving us the straight scoop here.