Spoilers With Speculation

[DittyDotDot]

22 hours ago, Diane said:

I may be in the minority, but I am not excited at all for Wayward Daughters in a spinoff or as a major season arc. 

TBH, I really don't care either way. I mean, if they want to do a spinoff, they're welcome to try again--I may or may not watch it depending on what it is and what they do with it--but it doesn't offend me if one existed. However, I don't think fandom will give a spinoff a chance, no matter what it is, and I'd think TPTB would be aware of that. I'd be really surprised if they were doing an honest-to-Chuck spinoff. I think it more likely that Jodi and the girls will be regulars in S13 or they're doing a miniseries event of some sort.

Anyway, I'm not against a Wayward Daughters spinoff in principle, though. I think it could be a very entertaining show depending on what they did with it. My bigger problem right now is Jodi sorta stepped over a line for me as a law enforcement officer at the end of the season and I'm not sure they can really have her--and Donna--doing that regularly and still be law enforcement. It's one thing to hunt an existing threat to your community, but it's another to join a group of vigilantes to go gun down a bunch of humans. For Sam and Dean, who have always lived on the outskirts of society, it works--even though I'd have preferred someone to have at least raised a hand or asked a question--but when law enforcement starts deciding to be judge, jury and executioners, that's a problem, IMO.

Edited June 17, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Jonesy]

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

That still could be on the table for Lucifer with Sproutifer. Maybe he's pissed about being locked in the AU because he can't groom Sproutifer to be take over Heaven.

I still have a hope that maybe Michael might be a thing again, but the problem is that I don't want anyone else to portray Michael other than Jensen or Matt Cohen. I don't understand the retcons of Michael no longer being first born twice. Worst case is a horrible way to completely write Michael out of the story.

SWAG SPECS:

--Michael's been out of the Cage since the Darkness was released and he went into hiding but Lucifer has been lying about his status. I mean the only person who has talked about Michael is Lucifer and he has reason to lie to embolden himself more.

--I've been thinking that with Crowley dead  who is running Hell? I would be okay with Michael!Adam having ONE episode to establish that he was released from his imprisonment by someone in Hell, maybe even Crowley himself, and they made a deal that Michael will keep Hell in check and they'll put Lucifer back in the Cage. 

--Maybe Ghuck decided he had enough of Lucifer's shenanigans with Sproutifer's birth so he comes back from vacation, heals Michael, sends Adam to Heaven and by some shenanigans, we get Matt Cohen!Michael OR

My pet SWAG SPEC for s13 through the end of the series if that is coming soon:

There is a Matt Cohen!Michael in the AU. He communicates with Dean somehow and tells Dean that he still is Michael's OTV in ALL the universes, and that a Michael!Dean Sword is the only way to kill Lucifer in the AU.  Dean agrees, he kills Lucifer really most sincerely dead. Michael fulfills his bargain and because he's been in Dean, he gets where Dean is coming from and he decides to rebuild the AU!Earth for humanity. Then he comes back to SPN!Earth and fulfills the bargain he made with Crowley to close the Gates of Hell.  He orders all the angels back to Heaven where they will resume their role as protectors of humanity but not be on Earth unless needed by humans, and then Castiel makes a choice to stay on Earth as a human. 

Well Chuck did mention Michael--when talking about how he defeated Amara before and what to do now...he said Michael is in no shape to do anything.  And take too long to fix him to be of use in that situation--so Lucifer wasn't lying.  So only the third scenario would work with bringing Chuck back--though it doesn't seem they are moving anywhere close imo of bringing Chuck back.  So I suspect we will get no Michael.

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Well Chuck did mention Michael--when talking about how he defeated Amara before and what to do now...he said Michael is in no shape to do anything.  And take too long to fix him to be of use in that situation--so Lucifer wasn't lying.  So only the third scenario would work with bringing Chuck back--though it doesn't seem they are moving anywhere close imo of bringing Chuck back.  So I suspect we will get no Michael.

I never believed Ghuck about Michael or Gabriel. Of course, I think Ghuck is a lying asshole, too. Like father, like son in the case of Lucifer, so my opinion of him is low as is. IMO, Ghuck never really wanted to kill Amara, which he more or less admitted after trying to shift the blame to Dean on that front. IMO if he would have brought back Michael and Gabriel he would have had a problem because they would have killed her. Even if he didn't have time then, he's had time in the year after he and Amara went off on vacation together to rebuild Michael and Gabriel.

Anyway, those are my wild ass speculations so I'm going to stand by them as wild ass speculations regardless :)

Edited June 18, 2017 by catrox14

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I'd love for Michael (as Matt Cohen) to come back - and not be a dickbag this time.  I don't want to see Dean possessed by Michael (maybe that should go in the Unpopular Opinion thread on this forum) but I'd be down with Michael getting a 'win' over Lucifer (whether that be some sort of 'redemption' or putting him back in the cage, as I don't think they can or maybe even should kill the devil) with a big assist from Dean - as in he couldn't have done it without Dean's help, but not while possessing Dean.

As for Guck and Amara - Guck couldn't kill her, not without also killing himself.  He said as much.  Light can't exist without Dark nor Dark without Light.  Yin and Yang.  So, of course, before Guck was actually dying himself (as a result of what Amara did to him) he didn't want to kill her.  Also, as I recall, he solidly, solely, blamed Sam for letting her out.

[Pondlass1]

10 hours ago, Jakes said:

There is a Matt Cohen!Michael in the AU. He communicates with Dean somehow and tells Dean that he still is Michael's OTV in ALL the universes, and that a Michael!Dean Sword is the only way to kill Lucifer in the AU.  Dean agrees, he kills Lucifer really most sincerely dead. Michael fulfills his bargain and because he's been in Dean, he gets where Dean is coming from and he decides to rebuild the AU!Earth for humanity. Then he comes back to SPN!Earth and fulfills the bargain he made with Crowley to close the Gates of Hell.  He orders all the angels back to Heaven where they will resume their role as protectors of humanity but not be on Earth unless needed by humans, and then Castiel makes a choice to stay on Earth as a human. 

I'd go along with this ^^  @catrox14 Have you passed your idea onto Dabb or a writer?  As much as I'm turned on by Dean!Michael  I know the writers will screw it up somehow.  But I think we're due a Michael half season or at least a good few episodes.  Snot fair that Lucifer gets all the attention.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Pondlass1
The quote is from Catrox14.

[Jonesy]

Nice little interview of Mark Pellegrino by Movie TV Tech Geek that was out yesterday but seems to have been done soon after the finale:

 

Mark says he knows nothing yet so this is him speculating--agrees with the interviewer who thinks Jared slipping up about Cas being back is a calculated "slip-up".  Mark agrees and says Jared is too smart to just let that slip.  Mark also speculates that as Lucifer his biggest fear would be that his son would have an alliance, a real love for Cas his "spiritual" father as opposed to Lucifer.

 

 

So take with a grain of salt but that's Mark speculating on things.  Would love Cas and Jack having an alliance against Lucifer.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

Here's a link to the interview Jakes is talking about! 

 

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/mark-pellegrino-gets-deep-lucifer-supernatural-american-capitalist-party/

[gonzosgirrl]

31 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Here's a link to the interview Jakes is talking about! 

 

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/mark-pellegrino-gets-deep-lucifer-supernatural-american-capitalist-party/

From the interview:

Quote

Something I definitely found curious: What caused Crowley’s warding on Lucifer to reverse?

Drexel’s brilliant and mysterious work. I mean, I don’t know – I think that’s a writer’s question, that maybe they’ll be able to answer down the road. I don’t know if it’s science specific, to be honest with you but Drexel seemed to be working some kind of magic in his examination of Lucifer, right? Lucifer never made any bone about knowing what the hell was going on, just that Drexel was able to reverse it.  If Lucifer’s not going to think too intently about the how, I won’t.

A) Who knew the demon's name was Drexel? B) Doesn't this just say it all about the writing/plotting under Dabb? It works because we need it to work for reasons. Who cares why?

[Jonesy]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

From the interview:

A) Who knew the demon's name was Drexel? B) Doesn't this just say it all about the writing/plotting under Dabb? It works because we need it to work for reasons. Who cares why?

My take was Lucifer's overwhelming power reversed the whole thing.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

41 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

A) Who knew the demon's name was Drexel? B) Doesn't this just say it all about the writing/plotting under Dabb? It works because we need it to work for reasons. Who cares why?

A. Not me.  :)

B. To be fair, it's not just under Dabb.  There have been plot contrivances (because there needed to be) under every SPN showrunner.  

C. Maybe it will come back into play in S13.  I think it would actually be kind of funny, if it started reversing itself again and Sam and Dean - or Ooh!  Roweena!  Because Magic! - ended up with control over him.  heh!

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

A. Not me.  :)

B. To be fair, it's not just under Dabb.  There have been plot contrivances (because there needed to be) under every SPN showrunner.  

C. Maybe it will come back into play in S13.  I think it would actually be kind of funny, if it started reversing itself again and Sam and Dean - or Ooh!  Roweena!  Because Magic! - ended up with control over him.  heh!

B = true enough, but usually they at least *try* to explain/justify them. What's funny is that 90% of the Luci/Crowley scenes were talky exposition about how/why/when something happened, but this they choose to leave alone. Oy.

As much of a Dean!Girl as I am, I think it would be awesome and fitting if Sam somehow ended up with control over Puppetifer.

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, Jakes said:

My take was Lucifer's overwhelming power reversed the whole thing.

 

 

The chains that bound Lucifer in his more stable Nicksuit,  were made of the same material as the Cage, down to the molecular level, according to Crowley. I see no reason for him to not think that was the case.

Ghuck made  the Cage himself and it worked for thousands of years.  It seems to me if Lucifer always had this overwhelming power he could have gotten out of the Cage himself rather than having to go through all the rigamarole with making sure Dean was in Hell to be the Righteous Man that broke the first seal, then breaking all the other 65 seals including the death of The First Demon Lilith. And the rest of the rigamarole of having to get the rings from the Four Horsemen of the Apocalpyse combined with the power of an Enochian chant, and Sam as the OTV, to put Lucifer back in the Cage. 

IMO, what would make a more plausible reason is that when the Darkness was released, it actually altered the Cage at the molecular level which is why Lucifer could send a message to Sam. I can fanwank that Crowley's minions used a sample from the damaged Cage without thinking it would be a problem and the replicated material wasn't strong enough to hold Lucifer. 

 

From Family Feud:

http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=supernatural&episode=s12e13

Quote

Crowley: I've had a dozen of my most loyal studying the cage where you were held, at the molecular level. They managed to replicate the material. They made those chains. Getting you here well, that was a different matter.

So your essence wasn't sent back to the cage, but instead, we found your discarded vessel a few years ago repaired it, improved it, making it a fitting final home for the real you. What? No snarky, devilish comments?

[ Chains rattle ] You have nothing to say?

Lucifer: Thanks? I mean, all that effort. So you could've had me back in the cage, but no, you needed your sad, little revenge. How do you think this is going to end? Nice new digs, by the way. Cozy. Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=supernatural&episode=s12e13

 

[Jonesy]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

 

The chains that bound Lucifer in his more stable Nicksuit,  were made of the same material as the Cage, down to the molecular level, according to Crowley. I see no reason for him to not think that was the case.

Ghuck made  the Cage himself and it worked for thousands of years.  It seems to me if Lucifer always had this overwhelming power he could have gotten out of the Cage himself rather than having to go through all the rigamarole with making sure Dean was in Hell to be the Righteous Man that broke the first seal, then breaking all the other 65 seals including the death of The First Demon Lilith. And the rest of the rigamarole of having to get the rings from the Four Horsemen of the Apocalpyse combined with the power of an Enochian chant, and Sam as the OTV, to put Lucifer back in the Cage. 

IMO, what would make a more plausible reason is that when the Darkness was released, it actually altered the Cage at the molecular level which is why Lucifer could send a message to Sam. I can fanwank that Crowley's minions used a sample from the damaged Cage without thinking it would be a problem and the replicated material wasn't strong enough to hold Lucifer. 

 

From Family Feud:

http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=supernatural&episode=s12e13

Yes I thought the jury rigged meat suit that Crowley made just wasn't as strong as the original situation that imprisoned Lucifer--however clever Crowley was, he was nowhere close to Chuck.

[catrox14]

IMO the biggest swerve would be Sproutifer saving Cas and inadvertently upgrading Cas to archangel status with all his powers back and then some.  That would be kind of cool and then Lucifer would actually have some real competition with Michael and Gabriel apparently on the permanent disabled list.

I don't understand why Jared would on purpose spoil Cas' fate when Misha was going to be asked about him in his own panel. unless the showrunners are telling J2M how to behave at cons and Jared gets to play big dopey Jared.  That means that J2M really are the best actors for selling that fake slip up for an entire con weekend.

[catrox14]

Quote

The timing of your escape is crucial, my Lord.

If the device isn't sufficiently impaired, the King's hold on you will only increase. And, of course, I'll be -- [ Grunts, chokes ] Let me perfectly clear, okay? My only son is in jeopardy, and I'm running out of patience. [ Grunts ] Check it again. [ Coughing ] [ Exhales slowly ] [ Huffs ]

This this can't be. [ Heartbeat thumping ]

Do not tell me it's powering up.

It's powering up -- I asked you not to tell me that. But in the opposite direction. This is amazing.

What? The device, it's cemented directly into your DNA and that of the King's.

As it's powering down in you, the polarity is somehow reversing.

English, Drexel.

The ability to control is transferring from Crowley to you. So you're saying that Crowley's gonna be my puppet.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=supernatural&episode=s12e21

This is legitimately terrible writing but what can be expected from BuckLemming other than 98% bad writing. I don't know if these bad ideas are theirs alone or they are the mouthpieces for Dabb and Singer. And I don't really care which it is at this point. It's just BAD.

Drexel said it was in some kind of DNA in either the Nicksuit or Lucifer, which implied to me that the Nicksuit and Lucifer's grace or something had been comingled by Crowley to make him vulnerable to Crowley and be unable to leave the Nicksuit, ever. Was it only the chains which were replicated at the molecular level based on Ghuck's original specs and did seem to hold Lucifer until the minions got involved. 

What is THE DEVICE?  Did Crowley have some remote control thing? If I thought BuckLemming were at all clever or self-aware I would think they were making a meta joke about THE DEVICE being a giant PLOT DEVICE that is never explained, but I refuse to give them that much credit.

I think it would be great to find out that Lucifer is bound to his meatsuit at the DNA level so whatever happens to the meatsuit in the AU is the opposite of what happened in the SPNverse. So if he powered it up, it will get powered down in the AU and my fervent wish is that Lucifer's Nicksuit disintegrates in the AU and Lucifer is obliterated at the molecular level. His grace, everything, gone. Irreparable forever. DIE, LUCIFER, DIE.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

51 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

As much of a Dean!Girl as I am, I think it would be awesome and fitting if Sam somehow ended up with control over Puppetifer.

I thought about that.  But then...No.  :)  1. I don't think Sam would want that control over Lucifer.  2. I am really like Super-Duper okay with Sam not having anything else to do with Lucifer.  At All.  Ever.  3. Since Lucifer has now apparently 'killed' Roweena twice, and she's the one with magic that could reverse the power flow or whatever, and Crowley was her son so maybe the power gets passed to her through DNA or something, I think it would be really cool if she was the one who controlled him.  

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

What? The device, it's cemented directly into your DNA and that of the King's.

Ha!  Thanks @catrox14!  Supports my wild-ass Roweena spec!  Lol! ;)

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is legitimately terrible writing but what can be expected from BuckLemming other than 98% bad writing. I don't know if these bad ideas are theirs alone or they are the mouthpieces for Dabb and Singer. And I don't really care which it is at this point. It's just BAD.

Drexel said it was in some kind of DNA in either the Nicksuit or Lucifer, which implied to me that the Nicksuit and Lucifer's grace or something had been comingled by Crowley to make him vulnerable to Crowley and be unable to leave the Nicksuit, ever. Was it only the chains which were replicated at the molecular level based on Ghuck's original specs and did seem to hold Lucifer until the minions got involved. 

What is THE DEVICE?  Did Crowley have some remote control thing? If I thought BuckLemming were at all clever or self-aware I would think they were making a meta joke about THE DEVICE being a giant PLOT DEVICE that is never explained, but I refuse to give them that much credit.

I think it would be great to find out that Lucifer is bound to his meatsuit at the DNA level so whatever happens to the meatsuit in the AU is the opposite of what happened in the SPNverse. So if he powered it up, it will get powered down in the AU and my fervent wish is that Lucifer's Nicksuit disintegrates in the AU and Lucifer is obliterated at the molecular level. His grace, everything, gone. Irreparable forever. DIE, LUCIFER, DIE.

Fully willing to admit to recollecting nothing about this scene beyond 'zomg!!!! the polarity is reversing!!'  Mea culpa. By this point I had zoned out on pretty much any and all of the Crowley/Luci scenes because I just. Do not. Care.

 

ETA:  I meant to add to my earlier post about the interview: I am somewhat impressed with Mark's knowledge of the show canon.

Edited June 19, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Fully willing to admit to recollecting nothing about this scene beyond 'zomg!!!! the polarity is reversing!!'  Mea culpa. By this point I had zoned out on pretty much any and all of the Crowley/Luci scenes because I just. Do not. Care.

That was what I recollected and it made no sense so I went back to read the transcript. That's why when it happened I was like this is some bullshit writing for GOTCHA.  

To me that interview with  Mark P, sure makes it seem like he is coming back for s13 for an extended arc. He's talking about Lucifer's headspace and hoping that being a father would make Lucifer better (MARK, YOU ARE PLAYING THE DEVIL. He doesn't get a redemption).

I was kind of amused when he said he thought Lucifer is a masochist because I've often though Sam is a bit of a masochist and I thought, hmmm, is this why Sam jetted off to face Lucifer on his own in s11 instead of waiting for Dean? Was there a masochistic side to Sam where he was compelled to face his greatest nemesis? Just a musing I had.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

IMO the biggest swerve would be Sproutifer saving Cas and inadvertently upgrading Cas to archangel status with all his powers back and then some.  That would be kind of cool and then Lucifer would actually have some real competition with Michael and Gabriel apparently on the permanent disabled list.

I don't understand why Jared would on purpose spoil Cas' fate when Misha was going to be asked about him in his own panel. unless the showrunners are telling J2M how to behave at cons and Jared gets to play big dopey Jared.  That means that J2M really are the best actors for selling that fake slip up for an entire con weekend.

Misha would have gotten into a SHIT-ton more trouble than Jared.  And the boys know it.  So, I always thought J2 played it just right.  And yes, they were acting IMO. I just re-watched to see what was 'real' and what was a 'bit'**.  And I noticed a couple of things:
- When they first get out there on Sat morning, it was pretty standard stuff and looked unscripted.
- When the person asked what other worlds they would want to visit, Jared clarified it the question to be "like Changing Channels?"  Jensen appears to be thinking about it and then Jared offers up "Simpsons".  Then he IMMEDIATELY says "or Scooby Doo".  Which allowed them to talk about Scooby Doo and Jared lets the slip fly.  Then Jensen has a 'fast on his feet' quick 'cover'. They carry on with this for another minute and move on. They don't even bother to go back and answer the original question better.  Usually when they go off question so far, the come back, answer the question or at least acknowledge they didn't answer the question and then move on.  It looked like they wanted to 'move on' quickly from the goof-up BUT....
- Here's my speculation: the question was a plant.  Daniella, who runs the con, would totally do that for them. When the questioner didn't get it exactly right for the 'set-up', Jared re-interpreted it to get it as a lead-in to Scooby Doo.  Everything after the 'we can talk about it since it was announced in New York' THRU Jensen's quick cover was actually pre-planned.  (Note: see Jensen's little smile when he's getting a drink). Then they riffed some more on that, went over the top, and said move on.  

**a 'bit' -- as in a half-improvised comedy routine. Comedy elbows optional.

Seriously, watch it again.  See how they handled "the question", tell me I'm wrong.

Edited June 19, 2017 by SueB

[Jonesy]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

Misha would have gotten into a SHIT-ton more trouble than Jared.  And the boys know it.  So, I always thought J2 played it just right.  And yes, they were acting IMO. I just re-watched to see what was 'real' and what was a 'bit'**.  And I noticed a couple of things:
- When they first get out there on Sat morning, it was pretty standard stuff and looked unscripted.
- When the person asked what other worlds they would want to visit, Jared clarified it the question to be "like Changing Channels?"  Jensen appears to be thinking about it and then Jared offers up "Simpsons".  Then he IMMEDIATELY says "or Scooby Doo".  Which allowed them to talk about Scooby Doo and Jared lets the slip fly.  Then Jensen has a 'fast on his feet' quick 'cover'. They carry on with this for another minute and move on. They don't even bother to go back and answer the original question better.  Usually when they go off question so far, the come back, answer the question or at least acknowledge they didn't answer the question and then move on.  It looked like they wanted to 'move on' quickly from the goof-up BUT....
- Here's my speculation: the question was a plant.  Daniella, who runs the con, would totally do that for them. When the questioner didn't get it exactly right for the 'set-up', Jared re-interpreted it to get it as a lead-in to Scooby Doo.  Everything after the 'we can talk about it since it was announced in New York' THRU Jensen's quick cover was actually pre-planned.  Then they riffed some more on that, went over the top, and said move on.  

**a 'bit' -- as in a half-improvised comedy routine. Comedy elbows optional.

Seriously, watch it again.  See how they handled "the question", tell me I'm wrong.

This seems quite plausible to me.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't think it was a plant, or even intended. I think Jared messed up and then they ran with it. At the Misha/Jensen panel when Jensen asks Misha if he can tell something, Misha is at first horrified, then makes a joke about how Jared would've just blurted it out anyway. My feeling is that they were prepared with some kind of response to the OMG everyone's dead!!! fallout, but I don't think they intended what happened.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

**a 'bit' -- as in a half-improvised comedy routine. Comedy elbows optional.

Seriously, watch it again.  See how they handled "the question", tell me I'm wrong.

I've watched all of their JIBcon 2017 videos about 10 times, no exaggeration. I have a different interpretation than you.

IMO it's not a planned bit where Jared pretends to mess up. Maybe the question was a planted question, maybe it wasn't but I'm sure they were expecting questions of some kind to be asked about the finale and what is coming for s13.

IMO, Jared intended to talk about the Scooby episode, but I really don't think he intended to drop Misha's name.

I think Jensen improvised to cover for Jared's derp by saying there might be a lot of people back for the Scooby episode and some could be dead and some could be alive and figments of the boys imagination. He's says "Boom, You're Welcome" puts his hand on Jared's shoulder. Then hangs his head, and then gets up walks away shaking his head and looking at Jared like, "Dude, NO!". I have seen Jensen shake his head at Jared that way in many other con videos when Jared is babbling. Maybe Jared's babbling is a bit, I never thought it was. Of course, I've never been to a con so I can't say whether it is or isn't.  I just go by the con videos. 

I really don't think Jared would have said "I really hope he's dead" regarding Cas as part of a bit. That is too hurtful to any Cas fans in that panel. Maybe the bronlies and Misha/Cas dislikers would  have thought it was terrific and funny, but in a mixed crowd like JIBcon tends to be, IMO, they wouldn't appreciate that even as a 'bit'.  And they kind of didn't appreciate it, which left Jared scrambling to say something else.

At that point, Misha is crashing the panel and Jensen jokes about shedding tears of joy when he read the script  and then joked about  wanting Misha to die already so he could go home.'  At that point, the cat was out of the bag and Jensen just went all in all teasing Misha but he also did say " No, that was a difficult night of filming." IMO that was Jensen trying to be funny and it failed to keep the focus off Cas' status. 

Later in the Cockles panel, Jensen wanted to mention something Misha told him earlier and Misha freaked out and said "NO! You can't talk about that!" to which Jensen replies "Jared would have just said it!" and then referred to it as  "Unfiltered Jared".

I don't understand why Misha would be in trouble? IMO, he wasn't going to spoil anything about Cas' return. If someone asked him about it, I think he would have answered it pretty much like he did without actually spoiling anything, by saying "I'm not sure what Cas' status will be" which is completely true. He offered more insight in that Cas might be changed in some way, simply because IMO Jared derped. IMO Misha could have left out Cas being changed in some way and the answer is still vague but not spoilery.  

So IMO, it was possible planned for Misha to say more about Cas' status in his panel, but Jared screwed it up. Then they were left scrambling for the rest of the con to keep it out of discussions, hence Misha's story about sharing the too small house with all the innuendo you can shake a stick at.

JMHO

[MysteryGuest]

The entire "Lucifer locked in his meat suit" storyline was stupid in my opinion.  First we had Crowley giving a 10 minute exposition as to just how Lucifer ended up in his dungeon and not back in the Cage.  That was eye-rolling enough.  But the writers went to the trouble of making all of that up, but never bothered to think of some plausible way for him to get out?  I have to assume that they knew Lucifer wasn't going to remain Crowley's pet indefinitely...I certainly did.  So we get a lengthy, detailed explanation as to how he trapped him, but a hand wave, unexplainable reason as to why he's suddenly free?  This is the stuff that drives me nuts, honestly.

As for Misha's fate, it looked to me like Jared just let it slip, but who knows.  Either way, Misha himself tweeted that he would be back, almost right away, so I'm not sure it mattered.  In the same way that Mark S. didn't want to leave his fans hanging, I don't think Misha wanted his freaking out, either.  

[Pondlass1]

14 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

So we get a lengthy, detailed explanation as to how he trapped him, but a hand wave, unexplainable reason as to why he's suddenly free?  This is the stuff that drives me nuts, honestly.

Drives me nuts too.  No wonder MS cut ties.  Lazy stupid exposition stuffed writing.   Are the writers getting it?  Do they ever brainstorm, network, or whatever?  

The general consensus seems to be - stick a fork in Lucifer he's done!  I think they're picking up on this because  MP retweets every tweet  posted by Lucifer devotees.

[ILoveReading]

It looks like they really going to try and put this in a spin off

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

It looks like they really going to try and put this in a spin off

Well, there you go!

[Diane]

http://deadline.com/2017/06/supernatural-spinoff-wayward-sisters-kim-rhodes-the-cw-backdoor-pilot-season-13-1202116253/

EXCLUSIVE: It’s the ladies’ turn in the Supernatural franchise. I have learned that the CW’s long-running drama series, about the adventures of the Winchester brothers, is prepping a new spinoff, Wayward Sisters, starring the original series’ standout Kim Rhodes.

The project — which is being developed as a planted spinoff and will have a backdoor pilot airing as an episode of Supernatural‘s upcoming 13th season — tells the story of Sheriff Jody Mills (Rhodes) and a group of troubled young women, all of them orphaned by supernatural tragedy. Under Mills’ training and protection, the women will emerge as a supreme monster-fighting force. Unlike the original series, which centers on a biological brothers, Wayward Sisters is about a sisterhood of girls in a foster family. The spinoff hails from a quartet of Supernatural writers-producers, showrunners Andrew Dabb and Robert Singer as well as Phil Sgriccia, Robert Berens. Warner Bros TV, which produces Supernatural, is the studio. The CW and WBTV declined comment.

Written by Berens and Dabb, Wayward Sisters is expected to bring over other characters featured on the mothership series as well as introduce new ones. I hear Rhodes is the only actress currently attached to the spinoff, with talks with others in various stages. Based on the premise of the project, two existing Supernatural characters, orphan Claire Novak and runaway Alex Jones, who had been put under Jody’s care, would fit in nicely, with Jody’s colleague and occasional partner, Sheriff Donna Hanscum, also a strong candidate.

Jody, Claire, Alex and Donna have been the dream quartet of characters of a spinoff fans had been rallying for, dubbed Wayward Daughters. Named in part after the title of the Kansas song that opens every Supernatural finale, Carry On Wayward Son, the Wayward Daughters spinoff idea was the result of a grassroots fan effort that started two years ago, soon after Bloodlines, the first proposed Supernatural spinoff, did not go forward. (Bloodlines too was introduced as a backdoor pilot, which aired during Supernatural‘s ninth season). Wayward Daughters had been embraced by some of the Supernatural actresses who have supported the effort on social media, and even have worn some of the T-shirts created by the fan campaign.

Supernatural has long had a close relationship with its fans, and Wayward Sisters is the latest example of the show’s producers listening to its passionate core viewers. One criticism from fans about Bloodlines — which explored the clashing hunter and monster cultures of Chicago — was that it only featured new characters viewers had no emotional connection to. The show’s constituency had been asking for a spinoff built around Supernatural favorites, and that’s what Wayward Sisters is about.

The spinoff is executive produced by Dabb, Singer, Sgriccia and Berens.

The CW

Supernatural stars Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles as the Winchester brothers who hunt demons, ghosts, monsters, and other supernatural beings. While Bloodlines, written by then-Supernatural supervising producer Dabb, did not go to series in 2014, the CW brass had remained high on finding a new concept to launch a Supernatural offshoot. “We’d love to do one, it would not happen this year but at some point,” the CW president Mark Pedowitz said in summer 2015. A big Supernatural fan, Pedowitz had called it “a franchise that has a lot of legs to it.”

Veterans Singer and Sgriccia have been on Supernatural since right after the pilot. Singer has served an executive producer/director and occasional writer. Sgriccia started as supervising producer, rising to executive producer. Dabb joined in Season 4 as writer, progressing through the ranks to executive producer. Berens has been on Supernatural for the past four seasons, moving up from a staff writer to supervising producer.

Rhodes has appeared in 12 episodes of Supernatural to date. Her Sheriff Jody Mills character was first introduced during Season 5. Rhodes also recently had a major recurring role on USA’s Colony and did an arc on CBS’ Criminal Minds. 

[Pondlass1]

It was obvious Dab's heart wasn't in Supernatural. 

[Diane]

http://tvline.com/2017/06/20/superantural-spinoff-wayward-sisters-kim-rhodes-the-cw/

The CW is taking another stab at a Supernatural spinoff, this one built around Kim Rhodes’ Sheriff Jody Mills.

According to Deadline, which first broke the news, the premise for the potential offshoot — tentatively titled Wayward Sisters — will be introduced in a Season 13 episode of Supernatural. Here’s the conceit: Sheriff Mills (Rhodes) and a group of troubled young women, all of them orphaned by supernatural tragedy, will team up as a supreme monster-fighting force. 

“Unlike the original series, which centers on a biological brothers, Wayward Sisters is about a sisterhood of girls in a foster family,” per Deadline.

The project is being shepherded by Supernatural writers-producers Andrew Dabb, Robert Singer, Phil Sgriccia, and Robert Berens.

Deadline speculates that two existing Supernatural characters, orphan Claire Novak and runaway Alex Jones, could fe featured in the offshoot alongside Rhodes.

Rhodes’ character was first introduced in Season 5.

Back in 2014, The CW developed a Supernatural spinoff billed as a “sweeping drama about the mafia-esque monster families that, unknowingly to humans, run the underbelly of Chicago and who are being tracked by a newly minted Hunter.” Titled Supernatural: Bloodlines, the project never made it beyond a pilot.

[auntvi]

Well. That is ............... something. I wonder if SPN will get a new showrunner?

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

It was obvious Dab's heart wasn't in Supernatural. 

Unfortunately, we're still stuck with him this season.

[companionenvy]

Wow. This is really surprising to me, despite the hints. I really like Jodi, but I can't imagine the show having enough of a built-in fanbase to succeed. Not sure if I'll be tuning in myself, although curiosity will probably lead me to at least check it out. 

[auntvi]

Duplicate

Edited June 20, 2017 by auntvi

[Pondlass1]

I'm not surprised at all. 

[catrox14]

If the CW does it like they did with The Flash, they introduced Barry in s2 of Arrow  as part of the mid season finale arc in December of 2013. Then they ordered a pilot with 13 episodes in May 2014, which aired in October 2014 then they expanded it to a full 23 episodes when it got major ratings.

I wonder if SPN will do something similar. Do the Wayward Sisters thing around the mid season finale of SPN or later. See if it lands well in ratings etc and then go with a pilot for late 2018. I suppose they could try to keep both on the air just not at the same time like they do with Legends of Tomorrow with a smaller episode order like 13 or 16 episodes.

Edited June 20, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Hmm, I have weird mixed feelings about this. I really don't want the show to lose Phil Sgriccia full time to a spinoff. Singer? I don't care if he leaves. I think Dabb et al will continue to EP for both shows, but I wonder now if J2 will take on any producers role now.

Oh gods. What if this means Buck Lemming become the showrunners for SPN? Oh gods why did I put that in the universe.

Heh, I'm wondering now if I'll start playing "Guess the re-purposed set game" like I do with Arrow and Flash LOL.

[Jonesy]

50 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

It was obvious Dab's heart wasn't in Supernatural. 

Don't think this news means Dabb doesn't care about the mothership--the CW has been pushing for a new pilot.  That said I don't see this as that interesting a concept--don't see them getting regulars as near as good as J2M--nor having their star quality.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

They should make Misha a series regular on the mother show and the spin off! Then they can co-ordinate his appearances so he gets full time work between the two shows ;). 

 

I know they wouldn't actually do this, but crack spec is fun lol 

[sarthaz]

Really like Jody and Donna.  Totally adore Kim and Briana.  I would love to see this succeed, but I must admit the premise doesn't really grab me, and Dabb's history with backdoor pilots is absolute shit, so it's hard to get too excited about this.

[Pondlass1]

I don't think it has strong legs, but if it does take off and runs for a few seasons.. Sam and Dean could show up as guest stars.. Even tho Supernatural  is over and they have other jobs... (So long as Dabb doesn't kill off the Winchesters in the finale.)

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Diane said:

http://tvline.com/2017/06/20/superantural-spinoff-wayward-sisters-kim-rhodes-the-cw/

The CW is taking another stab at a Supernatural spinoff, this one built around Kim Rhodes’ Sheriff Jody Mills.

According to Deadline, which first broke the news, the premise for the potential offshoot — tentatively titled Wayward Sisters — will be introduced in a Season 13 episode of Supernatural. Here’s the conceit: Sheriff Mills (Rhodes) and a group of troubled young women, all of them orphaned by supernatural tragedy, will team up as a supreme monster-fighting force. 

“Unlike the original series, which centers on a biological brothers, Wayward Sisters is about a sisterhood of girls in a foster family,” per Deadline.

The project is being shepherded by Supernatural writers-producers Andrew Dabb, Robert Singer, Phil Sgriccia, and Robert Berens.

Deadline speculates that two existing Supernatural characters, orphan Claire Novak and runaway Alex Jones, could fe featured in the offshoot alongside Rhodes.

Rhodes’ character was first introduced in Season 5.

Back in 2014, The CW developed a Supernatural spinoff billed as a “sweeping drama about the mafia-esque monster families that, unknowingly to humans, run the underbelly of Chicago and who are being tracked by a newly minted Hunter.” Titled Supernatural: Bloodlines, the project never made it beyond a pilot.

IMO, this is what Dabb has been gunning for and writing towards all along. IMO, he's been looking at the end of SPN, whenever that is, and wants his hands all over whatever may be next, and also IMO, he doesn't give a flying ffff about the Winchesters and hasn't for a long time. His showrunning has screamed that to me all along. I know there is disagreement to that sentiment, but that's been my feeling and this just enforces it.

On the other hand, maybe SPN will actually have time/inclination to write for Dean again. Yeah, probably not. I have a feeling S13 is going to be the Mark Pellegrino show.

Edited June 20, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

If it goes to Series, I can see it being helmed by Berens. Which, after Season 12, I`d consider no big loss. 

However this being the CW, I doubt the main character focus will be on Sheriff Mills. She might get as strong a presence as the adult characters get on the 100 but this being the CW I believe the focus would be on the teens like Claire and Alex. Possibly a new untested character introduced in the backdoor Pilot.

Personally, I don`t see it going to Series because it would have been hard to wring a successful spin-off from SPN in the past but now the point has passed IMO. They would probably have the best luck trying to wait a bit and then having the not-yet-existing-but-grown-up children of the Winchester brothers as new protagonists. That would at least create a tangible thread. Though be cheesy and clichéd as all get out in its own right.     

Well, that puts two episodes next Season down they don`t really have to come up with, the Scooby Doo spin-off writing by Scooby Doo people and the backdoor Pilot. Only 21 to go.  

Quote

If the CW does it like they did with The Flash, they introduced Barry in s2 of Arrow  as part of the mid season finale arc in December of 2013. Then they ordered a pilot with 13 episodes in May 2014, which aired in October 2014 then they expanded it to a full 23 episodes when it got major ratings.

Of course Barry as a character was only introduced in this one episode - and the reception was very positive of course - whereas both the two Sheriffs as well as Claire and Alex already had their own focus episodes.

Now of course several characters who started out as recurrings on the mother show and aquired fanbases of their own have gotten spin-offs. But usually those characters still had a lot of untapped potential in their own right. I`m just not seeing that here, not even for the teens. 

This just isn`t like Xena, Angel, the Mikealsons, even Highlander`s Amanda. Narratively I could see what could be done with them and done slightly different than on the mothership. Wayward Daughters, I can see them roughly do the same show as SPN. And that hasn`t been a good thing for years now. But hey, maybe they surprise me. If so, they would need an entirely new cadre of writers though. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Jonesy]

Again don't think this means Dabb hates or ignores the mothership--so will strongly agree to disagree on that point.  Some NEW FACTS ON SPINOFF--and NOT surprising.  Briana on twitter verifying she's in it too and Kim mentions her 2 step daughters(the 2 Kathys) are in it too.  Not reported anywhere but Kim and Briana openly talking about all that.  Again not a big shocker.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Jakes

[gonzosgirrl]

Meh. I know it's new news and will generate a lot of attention for a few days, but it's things like this that just set my teeth on edge and predisposes me not to like it. And this is only the beginning.

Pretty sure that Jensen and Jared have been showing us that for 12 seasons now.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

They should make Misha a series regular on the mother show and the spin off! Then they can co-ordinate his appearances so he gets full time work between the two shows ;). 

 

I know they wouldn't actually do this, but crack spec is fun lol 

 I was wondering if this might not actually happen. He could be a floater. He has a reason to be connected to the spinoff with Claire and of course always a reason with the boys. But selfishly I want more TFW in the mothership than Cas off with Claire.

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Meh. I know it's new news and will generate a lot of attention for a few days, but it's things like this that just set my teeth on edge and predisposes me not to like it. And this is only the beginning.

Pretty sure that Jensen and Jared have been showing us that for 12 seasons now.

I'm putting Misha's congrats in the category of spin and moving on past it. I'll be curious to see what J2 have to say about it.

[sarthaz]

57 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

If it goes to Series, I can see it being helmed by Berens. Which, after Season 12, I`d consider no big loss. 

However this being the CW, I doubt the main character focus will be on Sheriff Mills. She might get as strong a presence as the adult characters get on the 100 but this being the CW I believe the focus would be on the teens like Claire and Alex. Possibly a new untested character introduced in the backdoor Pilot.

You're probably right about this.  We could be looking at a Riverdale with token appearances from Jody.  Given the shit-show Dabb & Singer created for "Bloodlines", focusing on high-gloss upper-class twits and eschewing every aspect of the mothership, I think the approach is likely to be more 90210 than Supernatural.

[Jonesy]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Meh. I know it's new news and will generate a lot of attention for a few days, but it's things like this that just set my teeth on edge and predisposes me not to like it. And this is only the beginning.

Pretty sure that Jensen and Jared have been showing us that for 12 seasons now.

Misha is just being his typical sweetheart self.

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

IMO, this is what Dabb has been gunning for and writing towards all along. IMO, he's been looking at the end of SPN, whenever that is, and wants his hands all over whatever may be next, and also IMO, he doesn't give a flying ffff about the Winchesters and hasn't for a long time. His showrunning has screamed that to me all along. I know there is disagreement to that sentiment, but that's been my feeling and this just enforces it.

On the other hand, maybe SPN will actually have time/inclination to write for Dean again. Yeah, probably not. I have a feeling S13 is going to be the Mark Pellegrino show.

Because what we all want to see is a bunch of men writing  their version of "troubled" teenage girls.  I agree Dabb has sidelined the Winchesters all season to set up his new show by portraying a  long dead uber hunter as the best that ever lived.

If Dabb, Singer, Scriggia and Berens are going to exec produce this spinoff I would assume that ep 300 is going to be it for Supernatural.

[Wayward Son]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 I was wondering if this might not actually happen. He could be a floater. He has a reason to be connected to the spinoff with Claire and of course always a reason with the boys. But selfishly I want more TFW in the mothership than Cas off with Claire.

I would love it but I doubt they'll go that route! However, I do think that it could be easily done if they wished to. Especially when the main show has Castiel off screen for prolonged periods of time. For instance in season 12 he was all but MIA from 12x13-12x18. He only appeared in a total of 4-5 minutes of 12x15, the filming took a day and even then his interactions were with random guest stars. Misha could easily spend blocks like this starring in a handful of Wayward Daughters episodes. Of course even if the producers were willing to make him a floater Misha may not want the extra work. He does seem to enjoy the time with his family and charitable projects the current set up gives him. 

[ohjoy]

6 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

If Dabb, Singer, Scriggia and Berens are going to exec produce this spinoff I would assume that ep 300 is going to be it for Supernatural.

NGL, my need for completion and obsession with numbers makes me okay with the idea of SPN going 13 seasons + 13 episodes = 300. The J2 have abundant time to spend with their families and still pop in the spinoff for Very Special Event episodes (assuming Sam & Dean are still alive).