Spoilers With Speculation

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

I will be kind of miffed on Kelly's behalf if that's really Jack and he really does resurrect Cas, while leaving her corpse to rot in the bedroom. I mean really? That's his mom ffs. You'd think she'd be his priority over her friend/his godfather.

I was kind of hoping, despite what we'd been told, that Kelly would survive the birth.

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Lucifer is forced to replace Crowley as their frenemy. 

No, please No.  It was bad enough in S11 when they had to work with Cassifer and Sam had to save him from Amara.  Besides, if Jack turns against Lucifer, I would think Lucifer would just go all out to take him down - he wouldn't care about teaming up with the Winchesters as he wouldn't care about any human collateral damage.

[SueB]

Misha said he'd be back for S13 at JIBCON, but he heavily implied there WOULD be a transformation for him.  So.. Alt!Cas or some other thing is still a threat.  But we'll have Cas.  

Apologies if someone has already reported this. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

Misha said he'd be back for S13 at JIBCON, but he heavily implied there WOULD be a transformation for him.  So.. Alt!Cas or some other thing is still a threat.  But we'll have Cas.  

Apologies if someone has already reported this. 

He implied a transformation but I didn't take it as necessarily a permanent transformation.

[rue721]

37 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So why bother with the injured leg at all? 

I thought the emphasis on the injured leg was really interesting. IMO it was partially to make shooting up the bunker with the grenade launcher feel like a bigger deal (by showing more consequences for it), but I think it was mostly to emphasize Dean's humanity.

IMO it might be part of a quasi-reset. Here's what I wrote before about it:

On 5/19/2017 at 10:06 AM, rue721 said:

It also intrigued me that they spent so much time/effort on Dean's injury to his leg and I think that that was some foreshadowing that the show isn't that interested in doing the supernatural quick-fixes anymore. Likewise IMO the callbacks to closing Hell, the inability to magic themselves out of the sealed bunker, the emphasis on the human hunters (and the human-on-human violence in the BMOL HQ), and Mary being both brainwashed and "cured" by humans using regular human tricks may have been foreshadowing to the same shift in attitude.

Another thing that I'm very curious about, related to that, is the reference to closing the gates of Hell. I just don't know why Crowley even brought that up or why it would be on his mind. It's always on MY mind when Crowley's around, because I'm always curious about his status as almost-nearly-cured. But finishing the Trials didn't even seem to be on the Winchesters' radar as a possibility, even when Sam was curing demon!Dean -- so it's interesting IMO to see Crowley go to them and offer out of the blue to help with it now. TBH, that seemed to me like a thinly veiled request to be cured. Which I would actually believe that he would want, from a character standpoint. YMMV.

IMO it's also interesting in light of Crowley later having a tete-a-tete with Sam over a spell that requires the sacrifice of a life. I'm curious about what happened between them (if anything) between Crowley saying that the spell requires a life and the cut to Sam running off and Crowley confronting Lucifer. I'm wondering if maybe Sam gave him some of his blood and partially started the cure, so that while Crowley died/flamed out as a demon, he's got at least a shot of surviving as a human. Sam had JUST purified his blood for that doomed spell at the Bunker, after all, so his blood would work for the cure ritual.

That said, Crowley stabbed himself right in the gut, IIRC, so if he's just a human, that's going to be a medical emergency anyway LOL. Maybe he was hoping that Cas would be around to heal him if need be ;)

[catrox14]

So here's something fun. Don't know if it's reliable but this is in IMDB right now

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0172557/

 

Quote

Castiel / Lucifer / Jimmy Novak / ...

- Episode #13.1 (2017) ... The Wanderer

- All Along the Watchtower (2017) ... Castiel

- The Future (2017) ... Castiel

- The British Invasion (2017) ... Castiel (voice, uncredited)

- Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell (2017) ... Castiel

- Stuck in the Middle (With You) (2017) ... Castiel

- Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets (2017) ... Castiel

- First Blood (2017) ... Castiel

- LOTUS (2016) ... Castiel

- Rock Never Dies (2016) ... Castiel

- The Foundry (2016) ... Castiel

- Mamma Mia (2016) ... Castiel

- Keep Calm and Carry On (2016) ... Castiel

- Alpha and Omega (2016) ... Castiel

- We Happy Few (2016) ... Lucifer / Castiel

- All in the Family (2016) ... Lucifer

- Hell's Angel (2016) ... Lucifer / Castiel

- Beyond the Mat (2016) ... Lucifer

- The Vessel (2016) ... Castiel / Lucifer

- Into the Mystic (2016) ... Castiel / Lucifer

- The Devil in the Details (2016) ... Castiel / Lucifer

- Our Little World (2015) ... Castiel

- Baby (2015) ... Castiel (voice)

- The Bad Seed (2015) ... Castiel

- Form and Void (2015) ... Castiel

- Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire (2015) ... Castiel

- Brother's Keeper (2015) ... Castiel

- The Prisoner (2015) ... Castiel

- Dark Dynasty (2015) ... Castiel

- Angel Heart (2015) ... Jimmy Novak / Castiel

- Book of the Damned (2015) ... Castiel

- Inside Man (2015) ... Castiel

- The Executioner's Song (2015) ... Castiel

- The Hunter Games (2015) ... Castiel

- The Things We Left Behind (2014) ... Castiel

- Girls, Girls, Girls (2014) ... Castiel

- Soul Survivor (2014) ... Castiel

- Reichenbach (2014) ... Castiel

- Black (2014) ... Castiel

- Do You Believe in Miracles (2014) ... Castiel

- Stairway to Heaven (2014) ... Castiel

- King of the Damned (2014) ... Castiel

- Meta Fiction (2014) ... Castiel

- Captives (2014) ... Castiel

- First Born (2014) ... Castiel

- Road Trip (2014) ... Castiel

- Holy Terror (2013) ... Castiel

- Heaven Can't Wait (2013) ... Castiel

- I'm No Angel (2013) ... Castiel

- I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here (2013) ... Castiel

- Sacrifice (2013) ... Castiel

- Clip Show (2013) ... Castiel

- The Great Escapist (2013) ... Castiel

- Goodbye Stranger (2013) ... Castiel

- Torn and Frayed (2013) ... Castiel

- Hunteri Heroici (2012) ... Castiel

- A Little Slice of Kevin (2012) ... Castiel

- Blood Brother (2012) ... Castiel

- What's Up, Tiger Mommy? (2012) ... Castiel

- Survival of the Fittest (2012) ... Castiel

- Reading is Fundamental (2012) ... Castiel

- The Born-Again Identity (2012) ... Castiel

- Hello, Cruel World (2011) ... Leviathan

- Meet the New Boss (2011) ... Castiel / Leviathan

- The Man Who Knew Too Much (2011) ... Castiel

- Let It Bleed (2011) ... Castiel

- The Man Who Would Be King (2011) ... Castiel

- Mommy Dearest (2011) ... Castiel

- Frontierland (2011) ... Castiel

- My Heart Will Go On (2011) ... Castiel

- The French Mistake (2011) ... Castiel / Himself

- Like a Virgin (2011) ... Castiel

- Caged Heat (2010) ... Castiel

- Clap Your Hands If You Believe (2010) ... Castiel (credit only)

- Family Matters (2010) ... Castiel

- You Can't Handle the Truth (2010) ... Castiel

- The Third Man (2010) ... Castiel

- Swan Song (2010) ... Castiel

- Two Minutes to Midnight (2010) ... Castiel

- Point of No Return (2010) ... Castiel

- 99 Problems (2010) ... Castiel

- Dark Side of the Moon (2010) ... Castiel

- My Bloody Valentine (2010) ... Castiel

- The Song Remains the Same (2010) ... Castiel

- Abandon All Hope (2009) ... Castiel

- Changing Channels (2009) ... Castiel

- I Believe the Children Are Our Future (2009) ... Castiel

- The End (2009) ... Castiel

- Free to Be You and Me (2009) ... Castiel

- Good God, Y'All (2009) ... Castiel

- Sympathy for the Devil (2009) ... Castiel

- Lucifer Rising (2009) ... Castiel

- When the Levee Breaks (2009) ... Castiel

- The Rapture (2009) ... Castiel / Jimmy Novak

- The Monster at the End of This Book (2009) ... Castiel

- On the Head of a Pin (2009) ... Castiel

- Death Takes a Holiday (2009) ... Castiel

- Heaven and Hell (2008) ... Castiel

- I Know What You Did Last Summer (2008) ... Castiel

- It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester (2008) ... Castiel

- In the Beginning (2008) ... Castiel

- Are You There, God? It's Me, Dean Winchester (2008) ... Castiel

- Lazarus Rising (2008) ... Castiel

5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

It also intrigued me that they spent so much time/effort on Dean's injury to his leg and I think that that was some foreshadowing that the show isn't that interested in doing the supernatural quick-fixes anymore. Likewise IMO the callbacks to closing Hell, the inability to magic themselves out of the sealed bunker, the emphasis on the human hunters (and the human-on-human violence in the BMOL HQ), and Mary being both brainwashed and "cured" by humans using regular human tricks may have been foreshadowing to the same shift in attitude

"Cas" still healed Dean's leg in All Along the Watchtower...so how does that account for going back to no fixes?

[Geordiegirl1967]

21 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I thought the emphasis on the injured leg was really interesting. IMO it was partially to make shooting up the bunker with the grenade launcher feel like a bigger deal (by showing more consequences for it), but I think it was mostly to emphasize Dean's humanity.

 

I thought it was purely and simply to provide a credible reason why Sam went on on the MoL raid while Dean stayed to save Mary. 

[ILoveReading]

Thinking back to the Inside the Episode preview, when Dabb and Singer said it teased something we'd see next year,  most guessed that meant Claire.   I wonder if it was actually Dean's cartoon voice teasing the cartoon ep. 

Although, I think he did Yogi rather than Scooby,

[Binns]

I love how it's been like a minute since the finale and the boys including Misha have already spoiled next seasons's big resurrection. Lol! I guess they could be trolling...

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

I love how it's been like a minute since the finale and the boys including Misha have already spoiled next seasons's big resurrection. Lol! I guess they could be trolling...

I think all they have said is that Misha is in the animated ep, and that Misha the actor will be back. Doesn't mean that Cas the character will, or maybe not for a long time e.g. towards the end of next season. I hope trying to get him back isn't going to be a big arc next year. I am afraid I am not invested enough in Cas or his relationship with Dean and Sam for that to engage me emotionally. 

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

I love how it's been like a minute since the finale and the boys including Misha have already spoiled next seasons's big resurrection. Lol! I guess they could be trolling...

They could be trolling (which if true is a complete douche move and would lower my opinion of Jensen, Jared and Misha since it gives other Cas fans false hope), or there won't be an actual resurrection and it's all AU from here on. 

[DittyDotDot]

So, here's a video of the first part of Jared and Jensen's panel. They talk about the Scooby Doo episode around the 12 minute mark. It's pretty funny when Jared realizes what he said about Misha being in it. Also, he said it will be episode 16 of next season.

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I think all they have said is that Misha is in the animated ep, and that Misha the actor will be back. Doesn't mean that Cas the character will, or maybe not for a long time e.g. towards the end of next season. I hope trying to get him back isn't going to be a big arc next year. I am afraid I am not invested enough in Cas or his relationship with Dean and Sam for that to engage me emotionally. 

Misha has also tweeted Cass (Or Cas) will have a future. So unless Misha is being exceptionally cruel to his fans (which I hope not as that'd significantly lower my opinion of him) he is definitely back next season. We just don't know what version (will it be our Cas or the AU)  and how long is he hanging around. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I thought it was purely and simply to provide a credible reason why Sam went on on the MoL raid while Dean stayed to save Mary. 

They didn't need any more reason than for Dean to say, "I want to help Mom".  He didn't need to be injured to make that same choice. 

[rue721]

37 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

"Cas" still healed Dean's leg in All Along the Watchtower...so how does that account for going back to no fixes?

What do you mean?

Like I said, I think the hurt leg was partially to lend at least some gravitas to shooting up the bunker, and I think it was emphasized so much in order to emphasize Dean's humanity.

IMO, they didn't need to belabor it even longer and to never have it be fixed in order for that to be the case. Besides, I think it would have been too out of character for Cas to see Dean with an obvious injury and not heal him.

23 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I thought it was purely and simply to provide a credible reason why Sam went on on the MoL raid while Dean stayed to save Mary. 

I don't think so, because they dismissed it onscreen as a reason for him not to go on the raid, and Dean specifically said he was choosing to stay to save Mary. YMMV.

[Geordiegirl1967]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They didn't need any more reason than for Dean to say, "I want to help Mom".  He didn't need to be injured to make that same choice. 

I disagree. Dean would not have let Sam go on that Raid without him if he'd been physically able to join in. Saving Mary could've waited. They had both Lady B ad Mary captured.

1 minute ago, rue721 said:

I don't think so, because they dismissed it onscreen as a reason for him not to go on the raid, and Dean specifically said he was choosing to stay to save Mary. YMMV.

How did they 'dismiss it as a reason'? Dean said he was too injured to come. No one dismissed it. He could've saved Mary when they got back. There was no urgency. 

[rue721]

2 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

How did they 'dismiss it as a reason'? Dean said he was too injured to come. No one dismissed it. He could've saved Mary when they got back. There was no urgency. 

Sam said he still wanted him to come, and then Dean said that he wanted to stay back with Mary. To me, that was them dismissing it as the reason he was staying behind. Like I said, YMMV.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I disagree. Dean would not have let Sam go on that Raid without him if he'd been physically able to join in. Saving Mary could've waited. They had both Lady B ad Mary captured.

 Dean had a nasty gash not a broken leg.  He could have gone on that raid.  

Edited May 20, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Geordiegirl1967]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean had a nasty gash not a broken leg.  He could have gone on that raid.  

Sorry but that is simply not the case. He could barely walk.

I'm really not sure what point people are trying to make here or why people are looking further than the obvious. The writers made Dean badly hurt his leg. Hence he couldn't go on the raid, providing a credible in-story reason for what the writers were trying to achieve i.e. Sam taking the lead in defeating the MoL as redemption for deciding to work with them. Dean got the emotional arc in the ep by pulling Mary back from her brainwashing. I am not sure what other meaning it needs to, or could have.

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Sorry but that is simply not the case. He could barely walk.

I'm really not sure what point people are trying to make here or why people are looking further than the obvious. The writers made Dean badly hurt his leg. Hence he couldn't go on the raid, providing a credible in-story reason for what the writers were trying to achieve i.e. Sam taking the lead in defeating the MoL as redemption for deciding to work with them. Dean got the emotional arc in the ep by pulling Mary back from her brainwashing. I am not sure what other meaning it needs to, or could have.

He held his own against Ketch and he drove all the way to Jody's.   He then he helped Mary and Sam research.  He also wasn't sitting in the car when they were calling hunters.  He was walking around.  We saw him walking around his leg plenty. 

He also got Mary and Toni back to the bunker by himself.  The leg couldn't have been that bad.

The reason he didn't go on The Raid was to save his mom.

Sam and Dean have separated on dangerous hunts before.  In Good God Y'all.  Sam was out battling demons, Dean turned back to save the civilians.  So, yes Dean would let Sam go on that raid and stay back to save their mom.  Plus, Mary is very resourceful.  What if Toni got loose or Mary did before Dean got back.  IMO, Dean wouldn't leave Jodi at risk.   Plus, he knew they needed Toni.   Dean probably felt it was urgent.  If they lost Toni, he lost the one chance he had. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Wayward Son]

@Geordiegirl1967 I'm gonna reply to you in the episode thread because my reply isn't about Sam vs Dean. 

[DittyDotDot]

Moved to the episode thread...

Edited May 20, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Sorry but that is simply not the case. He could barely walk.

I'm really not sure what point people are trying to make here or why people are looking further than the obvious. The writers made Dean badly hurt his leg. Hence he couldn't go on the raid, providing a credible in-story reason for what the writers were trying to achieve i.e. Sam taking the lead in defeating the MoL as redemption for deciding to work with them. Dean got the emotional arc in the ep by pulling Mary back from her brainwashing. I am not sure what other meaning it needs to, or could have.

It sets up Sam to go on the Raid without Dean and sets up Mary to kill Ketch. Taking the rest to the ep thread

[The Morning Star]

Because Paradise on earth is impossible unless either free will is taken away or a Cain style purge is done.

So if the child would truly want that, it would lead to a conflict with the boys as neither of them would put up with either option.

[Binns]

Watching JIBcon vids and I'm 99% sure JP meant to spill the beans re Misha. 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Binns said:

Watching JIBcon vids and I'm 99% sure JP meant to spill the beans re Misha. 

Why would he do that??

[Idahoforspn]

18 minutes ago, Binns said:

Watching JIBcon vids and I'm 99% sure JP meant to spill the beans re Misha. 

I watched it and thought it was accidental. He acted pretty embarrassed I thought.

[Jonesy]

Misha clearly says Cas has a future...not AU Cas.  And Cas has a transformation...again nothing to do with AU Cas.  Transformed can mean many things...Cas has been transformed like 6 times already!  But he stays Cas.  Also you'll notice Misha says his death transforms Cas--so it wasn't AU Cas killed then.

 

Thank you Jared for spilling this first!  And for Misha to add more details later.  I feel much better that we get real Cas back now.  YES!!!!  And no news anywhere on Crowley or Rowena, I think.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Jakes

[Binns]

1 hour ago, Idahoforspn said:

I watched it and thought it was accidental. He acted pretty embarrassed I thought.

I feel like the "Misha" was so....emphasized? Maybe not. Didn't Misha basically confirm it too?

[Idahoforspn]

8 minutes ago, Binns said:

I feel like the "Misha" was so....emphasized? Maybe not. Didn't Misha basically confirm it too?

Yes he did although not quite as blatantly. But Jared didn't realize what he had said until a number of words later when the audience responded. Then it dawned on him what he said. He seemed really embarrassed. Jensen also did a "what did you just do" face. Actually, I'm glad he goofed but not for the reason you would think. Now that people realize Misha is coming back, maybe they will give a little attention to Mark and Ruth. I really feel like the Misha fakeout so he got all the attention when Mark and Ruth are probably dead dead was a jerk move on Dabbs part. So little respect for people that have been on the show for years. 

[catrox14]

Jared screwed up, so Misha had to follow up given the cat was out of the bag because of Jared.  He's SUCH a moose sometimes. LOL

[Idahoforspn]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Jared screwed up, so Misha had to follow up given the cat was out of the bag because of Jared.  He's SUCH a moose sometimes. LOL

I figure that's what happened too.

[gonzosgirrl]

On 5/18/2017 at 2:00 PM, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Someone just pointed me towards these spoilers

http://gold-and-saffron.tumblr.com/post/160781252472/supernatural-boss-previews-the-most-meta-finale

 

So, how much of this turned out to be accurate?

• About the season finale, I have known it was going to be showcased as a two-parter for a while, and now that the news has broke, I feel confident that the rest of what she told me is true. Now, I don’t hang around fandom as much anymore, or really ever, because of work but today I came across some news and some discussion and was surprised that people were so negative about the finale. I even heard some people say they would skip it.

Wasn't this announced quite a while ago? I don't know how old that blog post was, but it seems like we knew this for weeks.

• First of all the “meta” part of the story is actually pretty cool and isn’t going to be a letdown like I read some claiming. It’s not a copout and it’s not something out of left field. It really makes sense with what has been happening this season and really for the past few seasons. In fact, you can consider the meta aspect more of an arc, and there is a character returning that fans may be happy (or not) to see return. 

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how either of these episodes were 'meta'. Maybe I have a wrong understanding of what that means - does having an alternate universe automatically make it meta? It's not like they introduced AlternaBobby as Jim Beaver.

• Now, another fear I read about is that the finale will be bro-lite, but it’s actually from what I know, it’s going to be one of the most bro-centric episodes you’ve ever seen. In fact, from the scenes she described to me, 9/10 were bro-centered, and the last 5 minutes of the finale will absolutely blow your socks away as a bro fan. I’m talking better than Swan Song, better than all broments combined. There is something specifically from season 5 and Swan Song that gets brought up and addressed in this really cool “meta” / “fandom-y” way. I almost cried when I read about it.

So this - yes, it was Sam & Dean, but 'the most bro-centric episode evah? And the two bolded statements... huh? I guess if you squint, Lucifer grabbing Mary by the sleeve mirrors Samifer grabbing Not!Dean!Michael and dragging him along into the pit, but how is this, or Cas dying a 'bro fan' thing? That was the last five minutes, right?

• Major spoiler: Three words you’ve waited to hear, bro fans get said. But guess who says them and why?!

So what were the words? Dean said I forgive you, but to Mary. Not a bro fan thing.

• Yes, all main characters have a good role, but of course the bros take center stage. Dean has a great role, but Sam gets the shining moment in the finale. There is a “transformation” of sorts that Sam will go through, both within and without. To give a hint: He comes to a conclusion about where he is in life, and what Dean means to him, and he verbalizes it. This doesn’t happen in the final moment, that’s something separate. But it’s close, and it’s a really insightful moment. I heard that it was actually Jared who mentioned Sam saying something like this to the writers last year, and they finally found a way to add it to the script. So, you get a broment that was essentially created by Jared, isn’t that cool?

Huh? to almost all of this. I assume Sam's shining moment was the speech, and the transformation within was taking the leadership role, but the rest? What changed 'without'? How did he verbalize what Dean means to him? (I can only think of him saying he'd take injured Dean over any 10 other hunters, but that's not exactly a life-altering realization. What did I miss?

• Other concerns that Cas would be killed or written off, nope. This won’t happen, and in fact, I know a bit about what they are planning for next year based on the last scene of the finale and Cas is absolutely essential. You’ll laugh when you see it, but  he’s connected to the plot quite literally and you won’t be able to untangle him until next season. lol #somanypuns

I guess this one is shades of gray - Cas was indeed killed, but we already know Misha is not gone. The rest is so vague it's like a carny fortune teller's revelation about a tall dark stranger.

• I heard someone say they are ‘resetting’ the show and this isn’t true. Some parts are being…expanded, I would say, and there is call back to season 1 to show growth, mainly with the brothers, but they aren’t changing anything. You can actually, IMO, see this finale almost like a spinoff episode for next season. It’s the same show, but there are a few unique differences that make it almost like a new iteration of it.

Again, vague and way open to interpretation.

• Now, don’t read too much into this, but the episode has a moment in it that is hella gay. No, destiel doesn’t become canon, but yes, some shippers may be happy about this, and some will probably want to forward through this season. Psst..it’s the second to the last scene of the finale…so you literally have to wait, and wait, and wait…for it. But it’s worth it.

What did I miss?

• Get ready to say goodbye! Someone you’ve come to love will die, permanently thanks to Lucifer, so prepare to say goodbye. 
• There is another death, too, but for a minor character.

Well technically, Lucifer killed Rowena and Cas. Crowley killed himself. Is the minor character Kelly? Ketch? Lady Twat? Maybe she revealed the actual characters in her PMs, but as this reads, it isn't even a spoiler.

So overall, this 'source' was a pretty big fail, no?

Edited May 21, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Wasn't this announced quite a while ago? I don't know how old that blog post was, but it seems like we knew this for weeks.

Yeah, pretty much.

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Somebody is going to have to explain to me how either of these episodes were 'meta'. Maybe I have a wrong understanding of what that means - does having an alternate universe automatically make it meta? It's not like they introduced AlternaBobby as Jim Beaver.

Yeah, I'd say I have a different meaning of meta, too.

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So this - yes, it was Sam & Dean, but 'the most bro-centric episode evah? And the two bolded statements... huh? I guess if you squint, Lucifer grabbing Mary by the sleeve mirrors Samifer grabbing Not!Dean!Michael and dragging him along into the pit, but how is this, or Cas dying a 'bro fan' thing? That was the last five minutes, right?

Perhaps they were talking about the last five minutes of "Who We Are" and that hug because I don't remember the finale being particularly bro-centric either.

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So what were the words? Dean said I forgive you, but to Mary. Not a bro fan thing.

Dean did have that moment where he said he believed in he, Sam, Mary, Cass and sometimes Crowley...that's all I got. Oh wait, Mary said "I love you" to the boys before she slugged the Devil in the face...now that's all I got. ;)

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

What did I miss?

Nothing as far as I can tell. 

[SueB]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, I'd say I have a different meaning of meta, too.

Perhaps they were talking about the last five minutes of "Who We Are" and that hug because I don't remember the finale being particularly bro-centric either.

Dean did have that moment where he said he believed in he, Sam, Mary, Cass and sometimes Crowley...that's all I got. Oh wait, Mary said "I love you" to the boys before she slugged the Devil in the face...now that's all I got. ;)

Nothing as far as I can tell. 

On second watch, in the finale, when they talk about the AU, Dean says "Where Supernatural doesn't exist and you were Polish?"  That's ONE semi-meta moment (but not very meta).  Maybe Crowley saying he didn't want to be King of Hell (if, for example, Mark decided not to come back) might be another.

[Aeryn13]

I read over on tumblr that Jared said Sam will have a "special connection" to the Nephilim or something and that`s why that made him the one to find the Nephilim in the end. Haven`t found the specific tweet yet, it was a summary of his Sunday panel. Can anyone confirm this?

Because goodness gracious, isn`t that like a literal rip-off of Amara and Dean. It`s totally believable and I think many called it even during the episode but yeesh.  

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

I read over on tumblr that Jared said Sam will have a "special connection" to the Nephilim or something and that`s why that made him the one to find the Nephilim in the end. Haven`t found the specific tweet yet, it was a summary of his Sunday panel. Can anyone confirm this?

Because goodness gracious, isn`t that like a literal rip-off of Amara and Dean. It`s totally believable and I think many called it even during the episode but yeesh.  

But Dabb doesn't want to tell the same stories over and over.   I don't think that means what he thinks it means.  

[Wayward Son]

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I read over on tumblr that Jared said Sam will have a "special connection" to the Nephilim or something and that`s why that made him the one to find the Nephilim in the end. Haven`t found the specific tweet yet, it was a summary of his Sunday panel. Can anyone confirm this?

Because goodness gracious, isn`t that like a literal rip-off of Amara and Dean. It`s totally believable and I think many called it even during the episode but yeesh.  

So there's no need for Jack to resurrect Cas when he now gets daddy Sam as the replacement! 

[Idahoforspn]

19 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I read over on tumblr that Jared said Sam will have a "special connection" to the Nephilim or something and that`s why that made him the one to find the Nephilim in the end. Haven`t found the specific tweet yet, it was a summary of his Sunday panel. Can anyone confirm this?

Because goodness gracious, isn`t that like a literal rip-off of Amara and Dean. It`s totally believable and I think many called it even during the episode but yeesh.  

And, IMO, it will NOT be confusing and underdeveloped if it's a Sam storyline. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

So there's no need for Jack to resurrect Cas when he now gets daddy Sam as the replacement! 

Yeah, I thought if anyone would have a special connection with Jack, it would be Cas. But hey, Sam walked in the room.    

Edited May 21, 2017 by Aeryn13

[CluelessDrifter]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yeah, I thought if anyone would have a special connection with Jack, it would be Cas. But hey, Sam walked in the room.    

So Jack is going to imprint on Sam, like a duck?

[Wayward Son]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yeah, I thought if anyone would have a special connection with Jack, it would be Cas. But hey, Sam walked in the room.    

Well OUR Cas is dead so they've gotta give the Jack connection to someone! 

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think they had to. Why would it have been necessary for him to have a special connection with anyone? It`s not a pre-requisite for telling stories with the character. He could develop connections, sure, but not have them as his factory-setting. 

And only two years after Season 11, the boy!Amara vibe is not getting any lesser.

[DittyDotDot]

Perhaps it's not so much a special connection like Amara and Dean, but Jared's just saying that Sam and the spawn will have something in common--being tainted by the Devil and all?

[ILoveReading]

26 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

And, IMO, it will NOT be confusing and underdeveloped if it's a Sam storyline. 

It will also be more than the same scene rehashed over and over.

[Wayward Son]

21 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t think they had to. Why would it have been necessary for him to have a special connection with anyone? It`s not a pre-requisite for telling stories with the character. He could develop connections, sure, but not have them as his factory-setting. 

And only two years after Season 11, the boy!Amara vibe is not getting any lesser.

Oh sorry, I was being sarcastic / a bitter Cas fanboy over the fact that they killed our Cas and now seem to be passing over his potential storylines to someone else. I don't actually think anyone needs to be connected to Jack. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Oh sorry, I was being sarcastic / a bitter Cas fanboy over the fact that they killed our Cas and now seem to be passing over his potential storylines to someone else. 

Ah okay, I totally get that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[goldy]

[CluelessDrifter]

24 minutes ago, goldy said:

I kind of figured this is the way it would go.  Cas got a chance to do his big death scene in 12.12.  Also, there was the foreshadowing with Twig!Alicia being a replacement for real Alicia.  She looked and sounded the same, but wasn't the same person just like an AU!Cas wouldn't be the same.  I think it actually creates better stories for Misha than he's had in a while if it's an AU!Cas, but I do think they should tell the fans of real!Cas out of respect for his character and hardcore fans.

Edited May 21, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, goldy said:

 

I will go on record right now and bet money that if "S&D have to convince him that they know him", it will be Sam that he forms the bond with first. Because this show has never yet let Dean keep something that is only his. (Hell, Purgatory, jeez even the MoC for an almost-minute) And I know Cas & Sam grew close in later seasons, but it was Dean & Cas first. Wild speculation? Somehow, through his 'connection' with Jake, it's Sam who resurrects AUCas and forms a 'profound bond' with him.

Edited May 21, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[mertensia]

Do they really have much info on storylines right now?