Spoilers With Speculation

[Mick Lady]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 8:05 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I rewatched the last part of that episode recently, and I could have sworn I saw Lucifer's light go down the vent, not just into the egg - if into the egg at all.  So, yeah, I'm not totally sold on the idea of Deviled Egg (hee hee!) at all.  

I agree about the vent, but "Deviled Egg?" Won the internet for me! Thanks for the laugh Ruler!

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, Mick Lady said:

I rewatched the last part of that episode recently, and I could have sworn I saw Lucifer's light go down the vent, not just into the egg - if into the egg at all.  So, yeah, I'm not totally sold on the idea of Deviled Egg (hee hee!) at all.  

Quote

ARTHUR Hyperbolic Pulse Generator.

Exorcisms are unreliable. This device emits a force which drives the possessing demon from the vessel.

SAM What about a, uh, possessing angel?

ARTHUR And what might you boys be working on?

DEAN Well, you want us to trust you, you're gonna have to trust us first.

ARTHUR And that means?

(Back in the bunker Crowley watches Dean take the Hyperbolic Pulse Generator out of a cloth bag)

CROWLEY So you're gonna pop Lucifer out of the President with that?

DEAN I hope so. Otherwise, we're all dead.

Then Rowena zaps him back to the cage. Of course, we gotta get him here first.

SAM Yeah. We need to get ahold of this, uh, secret girlfriend Crowley found out about.

 

It seems to me that the Magic Egg is just a short cut for exorcism, if Mr. Ketchup is to be believed. It seems like it just expels the demon/angel grace from the vessel like a standard exorcism but doesn't contain the energy, smoke, grace, what have you, permanently. It looks like it was attracted to the egg and then, theoretically redirected by Rowena's spell, into the Cage. But I don't think it was clear that  going down the vent was the route back to the Cage. Not that I really want Lucifer around that much more, but given all the other shenanigans the boys have had to do to get him back in the Cage( horseman's rings, Sam being his vessel), I think that would be a really lame way to put Lucifer back in the Cage.

[catrox14]

Sneak Peek for tomorrow's episode

 

[catrox14]

Ugh, I really hate Dean's characterization in that scene so very much. If I didn't know better I would think it was a Buck-Lemming version of Dean. Sigh.

Edited February 15, 2017 by catrox14

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Ugh, I really hate Dean's characterization in this scene so very much. 

What don't you like? He comes across a bit alpha male I guess but being a bit of a hound dog is part of his persona.

Any woman who'd choose Cas over Sam or Dean has some judgement issues in my mind ?

How long do you reckon the Bobby look a like will last? He screams 'red shirt'

i think all the phone calls to Mary must be part of her recruitment drive for BMoL. Bad girl Mary. Secrets never work out well on this show. 

[Diane]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sneak Peek for tomorrow's episode

 

Looks entertaining to me!

[ILoveReading]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Ugh, I really hate Dean's characterization in that scene so very much. If I didn't know better I would think it was a Buck-Lemming version of Dean. Sigh.

The teaching Cas how to flirt doesn't bother me, but I didn't like that once again the show felt the need to insult Dean's intelligence.  Why does Cas point out to Dean that cheese is a carbohydrate.  I'm sure he knows that.  Also it didnt' take long for the writers to go back to woman ignoring Dean. 

Plus, Mary is just looking worse and worse.  She'll jump to another hunters aid but she only contacts once or twice a week. 

This is the writer that seems to have no use for Dean, as he wrote Dean out of an ep for an entire act with no explanation. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Myrelle]

Ugh. DVR material for sure. At this point, I wish it were Buck-Lemming instead of Perez.

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

What don't you like? He comes across a bit alpha male I guess but being a bit of a hound dog is part of his persona.

 

IMO, Dean is not likely to flirt with a waitress with an entire table of people of which two he really doesn't know very well (Mary and the other hunter).  It's pretty rude and made everyone at the table uncomfortable. It's escalated when she finds Cas attractive and then he decides he needs to teach Cas a lesson in how to flirt? In that moment with all those people there? And we've already been down that territory with Dean taking Cas to a brothel EIGHT years ago and Dean helping Cas before a date in s9.

It also seems to be a weird competitive thing with Dean and Cas in that moment that has never been a thing before, so why now?  Why would Dean behave in such an immature fashion now? 

Edited February 15, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

ETA: I feel like that was all a pretty lame setup for Mary to be all "stern Mom".  Whatever, Mary. Bleh.

[Demented Daisy]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sneak Peek for tomorrow's episode

 

Mom voice!  Yay, I love it.  :-)

 

16 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Why does Cas point out to Dean that cheese is a carbohydrate.

He didn't -- the other hunter wanted extra cheese because he was on a "carb load".  The waitress and Cas point out that cheese is not a carbohydrate.

[bearcatfan]

1 minute ago, Demented Daisy said:

 

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Why does Cas point out to Dean that cheese is a carbohydrate.

He didn't -- the other hunter wanted extra cheese because he was on a "carb load".  The waitress and Cas point out that cheese is not a carbohydrate.

I was going to say this too. Cheese has more fat and protein than carbohydrate. It does have a very small amount but it's minuscule. Also, it appears that Dean was going to state this as well. He was shaking his head.

Maybe I'm strange but I love when Sam and Dean bicker about trivial things. Reminds me of my boys.

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, bearcatfan said:

I was going to say this too. Cheese has more fat and protein than carbohydrate. It does have a very small amount but it's minuscule. Also, it appears that Dean was going to state this as well. He was shaking his head.

Maybe I'm strange but I love when Sam and Dean bicker about trivial things. Reminds me of my boys.

Thanks for the correction.  My crappy computer it sounded like Cas said to Dean, cheese is a carbohydrate.

[catrox14]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Thanks for the correction.  My crappy computer it sounded like Cas said to Dean, cheese is a carbohydrate.

FWIW, I thought he said it to Dean the first time.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

40 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

How long do you reckon the Bobby look a like will last? He screams 'red shirt'

Noooo!!!  They'd better not kill off Wally!

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, bearcatfan said:

aybe I'm strange but I love when Sam and Dean bicker about trivial things. Reminds me of my boys.

I like it when they bicker about trivial things too. I wish that had been the entire scene and they left out all the weird competitive flirting.

[bearcatfan]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Thanks for the correction.  My crappy computer it sounded like Cas said to Dean, cheese is a carbohydrate.

What I found interesting is that Sam, who loves to correct Dean, didn't jump in as well. I guess he was too worried about the internet connection.

[catrox14]

BTW,   Sam Winchester, don't pretend like you don't hook up with waitresses. Your last hook up was with a waitress, in (and out) of her uniform, mind you, in the back of the Dean's Car, just a year ago. Did you already forget the girl who you tried to give your number to?

[ILoveReading]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I like it when they bicker about trivial things too. I wish that had been the entire scene and they left out all the weird competitive flirting.

I didn't really see the flirting as competitive.   Dean doesn't seem to take it personally that waitress preferred Cas.   One of things Ive always liked about Dean is that for the most part, he doesn't seem to take it personally when the girl isn't interested. 

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I didn't really see the flirting as competitive.   Dean doesn't seem to take it personally that waitress preferred Cas.   One of things Ive always liked about Dean is that for the most part, he doesn't seem to take it personally when the girl isn't interested. 

I thought Dean was overly aggressive towards Cas here. MV. I didn't think Dean took it personally that the woman wasn't interested him him.

But mostly for me, this is OLD territory. They've done this "Dean helps Cas seem normal and human by teaching him about females". Why is this a thing again?

Edited February 15, 2017 by catrox14

[bearcatfan]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

BTW,   Sam Winchester, don't pretend like you don't hook up with waitresses. Your last hook up was with a waitress, in (and out) of her uniform, mind you, in the back of the Dean's Car, just a year ago. Did you already forget the girl who you tried to give your number to?

Sam did say that she smelled good, too. I don't know if she smelled like food though.

[catrox14]

Just now, bearcatfan said:

Sam did say that she smelled good, too. I don't know if she smelled like food though.

LOL, given she had on her uniform, I'm thinking she smelled like food. Maybe she smelled like maple syrup or honey LOL or vanilla ice cream.

[Geordiegirl1967]

29 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I like it when they bicker about trivial things too. I wish that had been the entire scene and they left out all the weird competitive flirting.

This! I'd watch a whole ep of it. Ideally without Mary, Cas or Mr 5th wheel hunter guy. 

8 minutes ago, bearcatfan said:

Sam did say that she smelled good, too. I don't know if she smelled like food though

I didn't think he said that (though sound is crappy). I thought he said 'why would you want her to smell of food?'

[RulerofallIsurvey]

14 minutes ago, bearcatfan said:

Sam did say that she smelled good, too. I don't know if she smelled like food though.

I didn't think Sam's objection in the sneak peak was to flirting/hooking up with the waitress as much as the fact that Wally and Dean thought that the fact that she smelled like food was a bonus.  Maybe Piper freshened up after her shift and spritzed on some perfume so the food smell wasn't quite so noticeable.  

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Maybe Piper freshened up after her shift and spritzed on some perfume so the food smell wasn't quite so noticeable.  

That sounds even worse than food. A mix of bacon grease, ice cream and what Chanel No. 5?

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Ugh, I really hate Dean's characterization in that scene so very much. If I didn't know better I would think it was a Buck-Lemming version of Dean. Sigh.

Oh God A Rock and A Hard Place (at least I assume that's what you're referring to)  . I had managed to suppress my memories of that episode. 

1 hour ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

What don't you like? He comes across a bit alpha male I guess but being a bit of a hound dog is part of his persona.

I would say I partially agree with @catrox14 on this. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the initial flirting. It was a bit of teasing banter and honestly Dean strikes me as the type of guy who flirts instinctively. 

However, the whole speech on the perks of hooking up with waitresses, especially after Mary made it clear she was uncomfortable, seemed a bit much to me. 

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

It also seems to be a weird competitive thing with Dean and Cas in that moment that has never been a thing before, so why now?  Why would Dean behave in such an immature fashion now? 

Hey, I don't want to seem dismissive of your perspective, but I'm just curious where you saw competitiveness in this scene. The reason I ask is that my reading of the scene was as follows; 

Dean initially hits on the waitress unopposed. Sam is too worried about gaining access to the wifi, Cas is sitting quietly as he is not the type to randomly flirt with someone out of the blue, and Wally is likewise silent. Mandy rebuffs his advances and proceeds to ask for their orders. It is only when Wally mistakenly refers to cheese as a carbohydrate that Castiel finally speaks up to correct him. Mandy then takes a clear shine to Cas as shown by her sudden change in demeanour and calling him handsome. Dean (and Sam) are initially surprised by this (presumably because Cas being hit on is a rare event), but then Dean gracefully accepts her preference and proceeds to offer to help Cas out. 

51 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

BTW,   Sam Winchester, don't pretend like you don't hook up with waitresses. Your last hook up was with a waitress, in (and out) of her uniform, mind you, in the back of the Dean's Car, just a year ago. Did you already forget the girl who you tried to give your number to?

 

11 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I didn't think Sam's objection in the sneak peak was to flirting/hooking up with the waitress as much as the fact that Wally and Dean thought that the fact that she smelled like food was a bonus.  Maybe Piper freshened up after her shift and spritzed on some perfume so the food smell wasn't quite so noticeable.  

I would have to agree with @RulerofallIsurvey. SAMs objection seemed to be towards the idea that "smelling like food" was an advantage and some sort of turn on. He didn't show any disdain towards the idea of hooking up with waitresses in general. 

[Wayward Son]

Also, I don't get why some people seem to begrudge Cas earning the waitresses attention as opposed to Dean. I mean firstly people have different tastes and so it's entirely plausible that someone may prefer him to Dean. Secondly, he has been on the show for nine seasons now, and as far as I can recall the only female attention he has received has come from Daphne and April. However, since the latter was actually a reaper trying to murder him I'd hardly say it counts as a win. 

I'm not trying to belittle anyone else opinion. We all view these things differently.  I just don't see why Cas receiving female attention for the first time in three years is super offence and somehow a slight against Dean. 

[MysteryGuest]

The only part of that preview that bothered me in the least is the pretty obvious fact that Mary is now lying to Sam and Dean about working with the BMOL.  They finally stop having Sam and Dean constantly lie to each other, but then bring Mary back so she can do it?  Just no.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Dean initially hits on the waitress unopposed. Sam is too worried about gaining access to the wifi, Cas is sitting quietly as he is not the type to randomly flirt with someone out of the blue, and Wally is likewise silent. Mandy rebuffs his advances and proceeds to ask for their orders. It is only when Wally mistakenly refers to cheese as a carbohydrate that Castiel finally speaks up to correct him. Mandy then takes a clear shine to Cas as shown by her sudden change in demeanour and calling him handsome. Dean (and Sam) are initially surprised by this (presumably because Cas being hit on is a rare event), but then Dean gracefully accepts her preference and proceeds to offer to help Cas out. 

 I didn't think Dean cared that the waitress wasn't interested in him, nor did I think he was annoyed that she found Cas attractive vs him.

Back in s9 when he took Cas to the mistaken date, he advised Cas in a cool way, just like hey bud, do this, do that, wear your shirt this way". To me if Dean was really keen on helping Cas he would have pulled him aside and said, 'Hey she's interested in you" get her number. But instead he got rather snarky about "a teachable moment" and told Cas he better "Up is game" in front of Mary and the other hunter.  I thought he was kind of being a dick to Cas.

 I don't know what is up with Cas either. He's sitting there looking at the waitress like she's an alien and reacting as though  he's never experienced women finding him attractive at all. He's been with a woman. He's been flirted with occasionally. He seemed like he didn't understand about ordering food as though he'd never set foot in a restaurant before.

But if it was supposed to be a funny "awkward" family dinner scene it missed the boat by a mile IMO.

Also, I'm wondering if Mary and Wally are an item and maybe Dean is being weird here because he's bugged about Mary and Wally.

I'm hoping it plays better in the episode but right now, meh. I don't like it.

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

would have to agree with @RulerofallIsurvey. SAMs objection seemed to be towards the idea that "smelling like food" was an advantage and some sort of turn on. He didn't show any disdain towards the idea of hooking up with waitresses in general. 

I didn't say that Sam was opposed to waitresses but that he had been with a waitress in her uniform which probably smelled like food and here he's all that's not a selling point!

[MysteryGuest]

There appeared to be something going on with Cas during that scene, and I don't think we got the full context of what was happening in the short preview.  I fully expect it to make more sense in the actual episode.  I am curious just how Mary hooked up with Wally though, considering he had zero use for Mick and his BMOL buds.

[ILoveReading]

Quote

Also, I'm wondering if Mary and Wally are an item and maybe Dean is being weird here because he's bugged about Mary and Wally.

Or it could be that Dean's hurt that Mary is hanging out with Wally, and running to aid other hunters while pretty much ignoring them.  He's grieved for her most of his life and now that she's back she's doesn't seem particularly interested in them at all.   Dean commented they get a text or two a week.   It seems like Sam has no contact with her, that we've heard of. 

When Dean feels slighted by those he considers family he has a hard time dealing with it and it often comes out in anger. 

TBH, I don't care if it makes Mary uncomfortable because the show has botched her return so badly, I stopped caring about her and think Dean would be better off if she hadn't come back because its just another disappointment for him. 

[IWantDean]

I really hate Mary's attitude that scene so much. I hate that she lying to the boys about her call and working with the BMOL and most of all the hate her Sue huntress extraordinaire. I hope she not around much longer.

This write is definitely not a Dean fan. I'm tired of seeing Cas being used to prop up as the stud of the table over Dean and I also hate when they egg him on (like they are here) I'd like to see a little jealousy, especially from Dean who hasn't had a woman in awhile atleast not on screen Dean's one-offs are off screen as of lately.

[Wayward Son]

17 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

To me if Dean was really keen on helping Cas he would have pulled him aside and said, 'Hey she's interested in you" get her number. But instead he got rather snarky about "a teachable moment" and told Cas he better "Up is game" in front of Mary and the other hunter.  I thought he was kind of being a dick to Cas.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining your point of view to me :) 

I agree that Dean enthusiasm to "teach him" was a little too much. I just took it as Perez making him overly enthusiastic. 

Hopefully once we've seen the scenes preceding this we may have a better understanding of why Dean behaved this way :)

[MysteryGuest]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

TBH, I don't care if it makes Mary uncomfortable because the show has botched her return so badly, I stopped caring about her and think Dean would be better off if she hadn't come back because its just another disappointment for him. 

I would agree that at least so far Mary's return hasn't been all that positive for either Sam or Dean.  I don't get any indication that she does anything at all with either of them, besides the occasional text.  She could have her own space while still occasionally meeting up with them for dinners, but I don't think they've shown that to be the case.  It's bizarre, I think.  She's willing to die for them, but can't be bothered to actually get to know her adult sons?  Again, I can't actually get pissed at the character, since it's the writers who come up with this stuff, but so far, it's less than satisfying.  And I really don't like the idea of her being brought back just to add more sadness to their lives by having her reject them.  I'm sure they'll have a lovely reconciliation just in time for them to kill her off.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

That sounds even worse than food. A mix of bacon grease, ice cream and what Chanel No. 5?

Lol.  Well, what ever it was, Sam obviously liked it.  

[SueB]

I thought it was a good "stage setting" scene.  Routine hunter dining experience with light-hearted banter.  Wally is totally a red shirt.  And I bet Mary gets him killed.  And I bet she also gets Cas injured.  Which is going to put a MAJOR dent in the Mary/Dean relationship.

I had no issues with Dean's characterization here. But something is definitely feels a little subdued with Cas.  His knickers are in a twist over something.  He was going through the motions (cheese is not a carbohydrate) but I felt like he had a slight frown going.  Not that Cas generally acts 'relaxed' but I felt some tension there.

I had no problem with Dean's "teachable moment".  I'm not sure what future he sees for Cas, as in why he thought this was important data to share, but Dean has always been Cas' guide to human living.  It's just their relationship.  And that Dean likes a woman that smells like food? Works for me.  Just more of the potpourri that is Dean's character. In Dean logic, this was a valuable "insider tip" regarding women.  Hence, the teachable moment.  Sam, OTOH, arguing about that is totally Sam.  That Dean had no qualms bringing up the "teachable moment" in front of Mary says to me that he's treating her more like a hunter than a Mom.  And THAT is actually interesting IMO.  They usually have these clips from the beginning of the episode.  Will Dean be that comfortable with Mary-the-hunter by the end?  My guess is "no". 

I liked Mary's Mom voice but she's obviously lying and in over her head.  And the boys don't know Mary well enough to pick up her tells.  This is not going to end well.

[Mick Lady]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I like it when they bicker about trivial things too. I wish that had been the entire scene and they left out all the weird competitive flirting.

 Yes! One of my favorite moments is when Bobby is dying and reliving his favorite memory, which is Sam and Dean bickering about "Chuck Norris vs..."

[AwesomO4000]

4 hours ago, bearcatfan said:

Sam did say that she smelled good, too. I don't know if she smelled like food though.

Actually if I remember correctly, it was Dean who said that Piper smelled good. I remember because I was tickled that Dean was interested in Sam's love life again (that = all is good in Winchester brotherland)... so that's actually a nice continuity detail.

Yup... I looked it up. Here's the line. Hee.

Quote

Dean: Have you not heard a single word Bob's been singing about? You're tired. I can tell. You're exhausted. Well, I'm still wired, so I'm gonna pull over, get some gas. You hop in the back, get some Z's 'cause, buddy, you earned 'em. Proud of ya! Piper. Mmm. Man, she smelled good, too.

[rue721]

45 minutes ago, SueB said:

That Dean had no qualms bringing up the "teachable moment" in front of Mary says to me that he's treating her more like a hunter than a Mom.  And THAT is actually interesting IMO.

Interesting thought. I agree.

Have there been any spoilers about Mary appearing in episodes after this one? I just have a bad feeling that she's going to get killed. I like her, so I hope not!

Anyway, I liked the bickering. Dean was acting kind of overly coarse, and I don't love that...but it's in character, and I think it's meant to show his state of mind as confident and relaxed (rather than to show that he's "bad" in some way), so IMO it's intriguing rather than aggravating to see.

To me, it mostly seemed like these guys -- and especially Dean -- are apparently not used to hanging out with women! That scene so heavy on the testosterone that I could practically smell the locker room sweat from here. Not a complaint -- I find that intriguing, too. Because I doubt that the episode is going to end on such a macho note. It makes me wonder where the episode is going with that.

[Mick Lady]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:44 PM, ahrtee said:

But I think there's one other point many people don't really take into account:  the family motto: "Saving People, Hunting Things."  I think Sam has more wins in terms of "saving people," Dean more with "hunting things."  They set that up way back in season 1, partly because Sam was supposed to be kind of rusty at hunting, so Dean was the better hunter; but when Sam started feeling the need for redemption, "saving people" became his main cause, and the reason he and Dean butted heads so much.  

This is one great point! Ahrtee, you said what I've been thinking but couldn't articulate. Thank you!

[Myrelle]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:25 AM, ahrtee said:

But...if Cas is possessing Dean, it would still be Dean's body, so Jensen wouldn't get any more time off (I assume that's what you mean by Dean not being around as much?)  Besides, that wouldn't help save Jimmy.  Gadreel had to possess Sam in order to heal Sam's body, so it would take another angel possessing Jimmy's body to heal him.

Sorry. I missed this.

Dean/Cas would "disappear"/go off somewhere else because Cas(MC) isn't in every episode. I'm not sure when his next appearance is scheduled to be, but if  Dean okays it for Cas to possess him then it would be understandable and even fit if there was hardly any Jensen in the next episode or two because Cas(in Dean's body) would be off-screen in his own story, and would likely return in MC's body because he would be able to fix up the Jimmy vessel that he likes and is used to. It would only be cosmetic stuff because Jimmy's soul is not in there anymore. It's in Heaven with his wife. And maybe Cas the angel could use the power of Dean's soul to heal up-or some such thing. They've made up a lot more nonsense than that in the last 7 or 8 years. That should be piece of cake for them.

It's not going to happen, though. It's just a pleasant fiction of the moment in my own mind, I'm sure. ;-)

Edited February 16, 2017 by Myrelle

[Mick Lady]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 1:44 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

 Unless they know they're going to hell.  In which case do hellhounds drag everyone off who is bound for hell or only the people who sold their souls

Honestly Rule, I have to stop reading your posts! You make some great points, but make my head hurt!

The canon discrepancies drive me nuts enough, now you add a new one?! 

[SueB]

I saw on Tumblr that someone said Cas should not be bleeding that much.  It should be his Angel grace we see.  Did he go human and not tell us??????

[mertensia]

On 2/14/2017 at 8:08 AM, DittyDotDot said:

He looks familiar to me too, but I can't seem to place him right now. On another note, you mentioned in another thread you wouldn't mind seeing Wally from First Blood again, looks like he's back based on the photos posted. 

 

He looks like the late Roy Scheider in profile to me, but I am a bit face blind so maybe it's only me.

[trxr4kids]

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

To me, it mostly seemed like these guys -- and especially Dean -- are apparently not used to hanging out with women!

Lisa, Jody, Donna, etc. Dean's tact/level of respect or lack there of is dependent on the writers, but like @catrox14 I prefer the former over the latter.

[Wayward Son]

I was thinking about Mary last night, and I wonder if a part of the problem is that they are trying to write her relationship with the brothers in a similar context to the other characters they are close to. In my opinion Supernatural has never been good for showing the brothers friendship with other people, be it Castiel, Jodi, or Donna, outside of the world of hunting. 

What I mean is we never really get scenes where the brothers hang out with someone just because they care for them and want to catch up. We are rarely (if ever) shown them having a movie night with a friend, or visiting a town purely because they haven't seen someone in a while and want to check in. 

Instead their relationships are entirely centred  around the world of hunting, and they're reunited because either (insert name of ally/friend here) needs their help with a case, or the brothers need back up for  some major mytharc related battle. I don't really know why this is. Maybe the show thinks we would find such scenes boring, or maybe it's just to highlight that Sam and Dean only truly have each other. But either way that's just the way the writers have chosen to handle things over the years. 

Now, they appear to be taking a similar approach to Mary. They're trying to highlight that they care for one another, but they also want to create some distance between her and the brothers, so like the others they only care to examine their relationship with her within the context of hunts. However, because she is their mother and they've such a rich family history the approach isn't practical and it is only serving to make Mary come off as cold and unfeeling.

( I just want to clarify that I do believe that Sam and Dean genuinely care for Cas, Jodi etc. I just think the show runners have no interest in showing the day to day non hunting aspect of those bonds)) 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

Very meh sneak peak. Yeah, yeah, Dean is a crass buffoon and no longer attractive to women. It`s not like this is a surprise portrayal these days. Perez first episode was a stinker for Dean, this one will most likely too.     

Mary`s "mom voice" grated fiercely though. She doesn`t want to be their mother, fine, also means she doesn`t GET to be their mother. So she can stow that crao and those chastened little boy looks in response? Urgh. Hopefully, she gets humbled a good bit when her new besties, the socioathic BMOL screw them all over. 

Well, we got two I liked in a row, couldn`t last.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

11 hours ago, SueB said:

Wally is totally a red shirt.  And I bet Mary gets him killed.

[sitting in a corner, hugging myself, and rocking back and forth] Not Wally.  Not Wally.  Not Wally...

8 hours ago, SueB said:

I saw on Tumblr that someone said Cas should not be bleeding that much.  It should be his Angel grace we see.  Did he go human and not tell us??????

But it looked like black goo to me.  I'm telling ya - I think Cas has still got some leviathan in him.  Something ain't right.  Maybe that has something to do with how he 'powers up' again?

9 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

Honestly Rule, I have to stop reading your posts! You make some great points, but make my head hurt!

The canon discrepancies drive me nuts enough, now you add a new one?! 

Well...I think thinky thoughts in the shower.  I can't help it! ;)

[DittyDotDot]

22 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

[sitting in a corner, hugging myself, and rocking back and forth] Not Wally.  Not Wally.  Not Wally...

::extends a comforting arm:: Just remember, even if Wally does indeed die, there are myriad of ways he can still come back on this show.

However, I've managed to convince myself that red-shirt sign blinking above Wally's head is a misdirect. I mean, they also tried to make us believe Cass was was in deathly peril... .

Feel better now?

[catrox14]

It seems to me if Cas still had some Leviathan in him, when he became human it would have take  him over in a heartbeat.