Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

Why is Castiel affected by all that? That doesn't make any sense. 

I think maybe Dean isn't affected by it because he's still Michael's OTV or we get a swerve that Dean made a deal with Michael LONG before now and that's why Dean's been kind of odd to me.

Or Billie resurrecting him made him capable of withstanding more than we know. 

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, belbar said:

Not a clue to be honest. I don't see a way to reconcile that image with any of the possible outcomes for the finale. How we go from the Dean we know to a character dressing in last century mid 20s outfit is beyond me.

I just thought after watching the preview that they could go that route. I don't like it, but it would make more sense at this moment, than trying to bring back the original Michael in a 30 seconds scene out of the blue. Not arguing that everybody is expecting that or that it'd be a "very Winchesters" like. What I think is that in a 42 min episode there's no time for all of that. Too rushed.

If your theory about AU Michael is right, maybe Dean's clothes get bloody in the fight and he finds that outfit in the basement of the bunker. :) 

What i wanna know us if angels can fly at each other to fight, why is this the first time we've seen it?!

[belbar]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If your theory about AU Michael is right, maybe Dean's clothes get bloody in the fight and he finds that outfit in the basement of the bunker. :) 

What i wanna know us if angels can fly at each other to fight, why is this the first time we've seen it?!

More than a theory was a bad thought born out of my lack of trust in Dabb. It's just where the promo seemed to lead, so probably wrong anyway.

In this show the explanation about the clothes could be anything. As for the angels flying I found that scene really stupid, but now Jensen comments about it being physically challenging make total sense. It reminded me of season 10. When he was asked for an spoiler for the finale and his answer was that "it'd be an eye opener". It certainly was. Lol. Typical Jensen.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, belbar said:

More than a theory was a bad thought born out of my lack of trust in Dabb. It's just where the promo seemed to lead, so probably wrong anyway.

In this show the explanation about the clothes could be anything. As for the angels flying I found that scene really stupid, but now Jensen comments about it being physically challenging make total sense. It reminded me of season 10. When he was asked for an spoiler for the finale and his answer was that "it'd be an eye opener". It certainly was. Lol. Typical Jensen.

I forgot about Jensen's comment! 

I hear you regarding lack of faith in Dabb. Blech.

Now that I've thought about it though, that could be why whoever it is that has Dean's body has those clothes though. 

[belbar]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Now that I've thought about it though, that could be why whoever it is that has Dean's body has those clothes though. 

To be honest when I watched it I thought about that theory. It was what it seemed to imply. It also fits their twisted way of thinking. But like Aeryn said it would be the end of Dean as a character. It's more likely that they'll pull something out the blue and get the old good Michael back in the saddle. It could work to send him back to heaven to fix it too and someway get Dean back in a few episodes next season. Lucifer in the cage, Michael ruling Heaven and both brothers still together to keep fighting. All back to business as usual.

[SueB]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If your theory about AU Michael is right, maybe Dean's clothes get bloody in the fight and he finds that outfit in the basement of the bunker. :) 

What i wanna know us if angels can fly at each other to fight, why is this the first time we've seen it?!

Expensive and time-consuming effect?  Physically demanding of the actors. Last time Jensen was hooked up to wires for going to Hell it was physically very painful.  

It seems pretty clear that Dean is Not!Dean in that battle in the church - the flying being a dead give away.  I think "Death" is ruled out as well as he was pretty snarky about the whole "kickboxing" thing.  Seems to definitely point to "Archangel" based on power requirements and Dean's special vessel status.  And our candidates are:
Our World:
- Michael - still a possibility
- Lucifer - no, he's fighting Lucifer
- Gabriel - seems most sincerely dead and on the other side of a rift
- Raphael - Not even mentioned in the latest episode, I think he's most sincerely dead from Godstiel

AU:
- Michael - still a possibility
- Lucifer - no, Michael killed him over Texas
- Gabriel - no idea, but would seem unlikely he stepped thru the rift
- Raphael - no idea, but seems unlikely he stepped thru the rift

That leaves us AU or Our World Michael.  Personally I'm not that thrilled with either as neither is "Dean". But I would agree point out Our World Michael 1) REALLY hates Lucifer more and 2) would be more inclinded to avoid world domination as it didn't work out so well the first time and he's been in a cage. Whereas AUMichael is okay with Lucifer taking Jack and doing his own thing (unless it's a double cross).

BUT, what is the point of this battle? I'm pretty sure "Dean" wins, so I'd say the point is to kill Lucifer or re-cage him.  A smart archangel would kill him. because he's escaped before.  So, would AUMichael be making that leap?  He's already beaten Lucifer TWICE.  That leap looks like a death-match to me.  

Ultimately, a case IMO could be made for either (AU Michael looks on the ropes with the eye bleeding) but I'm not sure WHY they would drag Our Michael out of the cage IF AU Michael goes down due to something "Winchester".  

With all this rambling, my current prediction:
- Rowena drags Our Michael out of the cage to stop AU Michael from taking over
- Our Michael kills AU Michael and makes a deal with Dean
- Our Michael, wearing a Dean suit, goes Flying Tiger Hidden Dragon on Lucifer in the church.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, belbar said:

To be honest when I watched it I thought about that theory. It was what it seemed to imply. It also fits their twisted way of thinking. But like Aeryn said it would be the end of Dean as a character. It's more likely that they'll pull something out the blue and get the old good Michael back in the saddle. It could work to send him back to heaven to fix it too and someway get Dean back in a few episodes next season. Lucifer in the cage, Michael ruling Heaven and both brothers still together to keep fighting. All back to business as usual.

I just meant that whoever it is could've gotten the clothes from the bunker, regardless of who it is. There are bound to be closets or trunks full of stuff stored there.

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

Expensive and time-consuming effect?  Physically demanding of the actors. Last time Jensen was hooked up to wires for going to Hell it was physically very painful.  

Still though, they probably should've left this out now as well then. Angels who can do that shouldn't really be fist-fighting on the ground. Meh.

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

That leaves us AU or Our World Michael.  Personally I'm not that thrilled with either as neither is "Dean".

But it was never going to be "Dean". Jensen specifically said it was another character.

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

I think "Death" is ruled out as well as he was pretty snarky about the whole "kickboxing" thing.

But he never had a badass bod like Dean before, either ;)   Kidding (kinda). I am 99% convinced of the Michael thing now, but I'm not ruling out Death until the fat Archangel sings. Billie was too involved in all this, and her see you soon had to mean something.

[SueB]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I am 99% convinced of the Michael thing now, but I'm not ruling out Death until the fat Archangel sings. Billie was too involved in all this, and her see you soon had to mean something.

Speaking of singing... any chance that was Lisa singing in the promo?

[Aeryn13]

We have that shot of "Dean" walking down the street in that suit. Obviously the cliffhanger ending. Would AU!Michael be strolling down some street among randos? I think he would get to his apocalypse, part 2 plans right away. Cage!Michael might just...put on a nice suit and take a walk because of reasons. He was never bent on ruling Earth, maybe just Heaven. And those angels would roll out the welcome mat for any archangel, as we know. 

Two things I noticed in the last episode. When Lucifer told Jack about the "family", he talked about Michael. "Studly, warrior type". Seeing as our Michael has not been mentioned in eons, it seemed odd to put it in there. Unless it was a tiny bit foreshadowing. 

The other thing, though that could be really random plot contrivance, is when Lucifer shrugged off the handcuffs and said something like "they don`t work on me in this world (or on this side?) Was this meant to imply just something about the cuffs or the AU-world?

Maybe AU!Michael`s presence in our world will trigger something for cage!Michael. Or it weakens AU!Michael somehow. After all, it`s quite possible we haven`t yet had two archangels that were the same occupy the same realm, I got the feeling Gabe was dead already in AU-world, too. Lucifer, we know about. 

And maybe just maybe cage!Michael is the one who screams at Dean in the gas station to get the hell out before AU!Michael comes. 

There is a shot of a door being blown open in the bunker in the promo. That is either gonna be AU!Michael`s entrance there or cage!Michael comes to save them at that point.

Now the flying is just stupid. Why not fight like Lucifer and AU!Michael fought. Throw little energy balls at each other. Better than flying squirrels. You are not Arrow, show, you can`t pull off wirework stunt scenes.    

Edited May 11, 2018 by Aeryn13

[BabySpinach]

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

We have that shot of "Dean" walking down the street in that suit. Obviously the cliffhanger ending. Would AU!Michael be strolling down some street among randos? I think he would get to his apocalypse, part 2 plans right away. Cage!Michael might just...put on a nice suit and take a walk because of reasons. He was never bent on ruling Earth, maybe just Heaven. And those angels would roll out the welcome mat for any archangel, as we know. 

Two things I noticed in the last episode. When Lucifer told Jack about the "family", he talked about Michael. "Studly, warrior type". Seeing as our Michael has not been mentioned in eons, it seemed odd to put it in there. Unless it was a tiny bit foreshadowing. 

The other thing, though that could be really random plot contrivance, is when Lucifer shrugged off the handcuffs and said something like "they don`t work on me in this world (or on this side?) Was this meant to imply just something about the cuffs or the AU-world?

Maybe AU!Michael`s presence in our world will trigger something for cage!Michael. Or it weakens AU!Michael somehow. After all, it`s quite possible we haven`t yet had two archangels that were the same occupy the same realm, I got the feeling Gabe was dead already in AU-world, too. Lucifer, we know about. 

And maybe just maybe cage!Michael is the one who screams at Dean in the gas station to get the hell out before AU!Michael comes. 

There is a shot of a door being blown open in the bunker in the promo. That is either gonna be AU!Michael`s entrance there or cage!Michael comes to save them at that point.

Now the flying is just stupid. Why not fight like Lucifer and AU!Michael fought. Throw little energy balls at each other. Better than flying squirrels. You are not Arrow, show, you can`t pull off wirework stunt scenes.    

I also wonder (but highly doubt) if they're going to address the fact that Michael vs. Lucifer would scorch half the planet. There's a thin justification in the AU that AUMichael just wanted to disarm Lucifer rather than kill him, but would it have been so difficult to have the ground rumbling, rocks flying while they were duking it out? Same with Gabriel and Lucifer versus AUMichael in the latest episode. I do think that AUMichael's actor sells his formidable strength and deadliness, but the environment doesn't quite back him up. 

[Myrelle]

29 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

There is a shot of a door being blown open in the bunker in the promo. That is either gonna be AU!Michael`s entrance there or cage!Michael comes to save them at that point.

Where is AUMichael when his eyes are bleeding? I thought it was the bunker.

Lucifer and Dean/OC battle it out in the church, right? I'm thinking if Dean is the OC there then that would be close to the end of the episode-unless we get a lot of Dean/OC in this episode and he takes care of Lucifer first and then heads back to the bunker to deal with AUMichael and afterwards Dean/OC changes out of his Dean garb because...

43 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I just meant that whoever it is could've gotten the clothes from the bunker, regardless of who it is. There are bound to be closets or trunks full of stuff stored there.

...I think this is great spec for where the clothes could come from. And it would explain Dean/OC walking amongst the common folk in that outfit at the end.

And I'm also thinking that Dean/OC will not kill Lucifer if the OC is CageMichael. He'll just send him back to the cage.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Myrelle

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Where is AUMichael when his eyes are bleeding? I thought it was the bunker.

Lucifer and Dean/OC battle it out in the church, right? I'm thinking if Dean is the OC there then that would be close to the end of the episode-unless we get a lot of Dean/OC in this episode and he takes care of Lucifer first and then heads back to the bunker to deal with AUMichael and afterwards Dean/OC changes out of his Dean garb because...

Yes, he is in the bunker. And he doesn`t yet have bloody eyes when he threatens Dean. But does have them when he leans against a wall and says "this is the end" in a somewhat odd defeated voice. 

Since Dean is still Dean in the bunker but is clearly new character in the church, it makes the most sense that the church is the later scene. And the confrontation with Lucifer is the final fight.

Progression seems to be roughly:  gas`n sip - AU!Michael is coming, the bunker - AU!Michael attacks, the church: "Dean" vs. Lucifer. 

The suit and the walk is most certainly at the very end. It could be the end or maybe a scene with a distraught Sam, Cas and Jack as a cliffhanger. But I`d say within the final two minutes of the episode. 

Time-wise, it will probably shake out like the Season 9 Finale. The fight with Metatron was near the end, maybe ten minutes till the ep ended? I see the same with the Lucifer fight. Then a big angsty "psych, I`m taking Dean with me" from Michael and just an ending montage.

[Myrelle]

So maybe Jack kills AUMichael to fulfill his vow? Or would Jack be with Lucifer? Rowena? Man, that would be some kill for her.

I can't imagine where those clothes come from.

Maybe Dean/Michael puts Sam and Jack to sleep after he sends Lucifer back to the cage and then, since he has Dean's memories, he returns to the bunker to change and then he does his walkabout.

49 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Two things I noticed in the last episode. When Lucifer told Jack about the "family", he talked about Michael. "Studly, warrior type". Seeing as our Michael has not been mentioned in eons, it seemed odd to put it in there. Unless it was a tiny bit foreshadowing.

Hmmmmmmmm...

Dare we hope?

Edited May 11, 2018 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If your theory about AU Michael is right, maybe Dean's clothes get bloody in the fight and he finds that outfit in the basement of the bunker. :) 

Headcanon.....accepted!  Thank you.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now the flying is just stupid. Why not fight like Lucifer and AU!Michael fought. Throw little energy balls at each other. Better than flying squirrels. You are not Arrow, show,

That's what I was thinking re throwing the fireballs. That was actually cool looking. I really do like AU Michael but that's mostly the actor doing what he can with him. He seemed a lot more lively in the last episode. 

As to the flying squirrel....it looked to me like Dean was jumping from a higher position than Lucifer so it looks like flying but maybe isn't necessarily?  Just a really long jump? 

That said, if Dean is floating around on wires for any length of time, I hope it looks better than it did with Abaddon. That looked terrible. 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Headcanon.....accepted!  Thank you.

I'm ridiculously in Love with this idea.

 

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

If your theory about AU Michael is right, maybe Dean's clothes get bloody in the fight and he finds that outfit in the basement of the bunker. :) 

Maybe they'll even show us some of it. ;-D

Edited May 11, 2018 by Myrelle

[Jonesy]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

Expensive and time-consuming effect?  Physically demanding of the actors. Last time Jensen was hooked up to wires for going to Hell it was physically very painful.  

It seems pretty clear that Dean is Not!Dean in that battle in the church - the flying being a dead give away.  I think "Death" is ruled out as well as he was pretty snarky about the whole "kickboxing" thing.  Seems to definitely point to "Archangel" based on power requirements and Dean's special vessel status.  And our candidates are:
Our World:
- Michael - still a possibility
- Lucifer - no, he's fighting Lucifer
- Gabriel - seems most sincerely dead and on the other side of a rift
- Raphael - Not even mentioned in the latest episode, I think he's most sincerely dead from Godstiel

AU:
- Michael - still a possibility
- Lucifer - no, Michael killed him over Texas
- Gabriel - no idea, but would seem unlikely he stepped thru the rift
- Raphael - no idea, but seems unlikely he stepped thru the rift

That leaves us AU or Our World Michael.  Personally I'm not that thrilled with either as neither is "Dean". But I would agree point out Our World Michael 1) REALLY hates Lucifer more and 2) would be more inclinded to avoid world domination as it didn't work out so well the first time and he's been in a cage. Whereas AUMichael is okay with Lucifer taking Jack and doing his own thing (unless it's a double cross).

BUT, what is the point of this battle? I'm pretty sure "Dean" wins, so I'd say the point is to kill Lucifer or re-cage him.  A smart archangel would kill him. because he's escaped before.  So, would AUMichael be making that leap?  He's already beaten Lucifer TWICE.  That leap looks like a death-match to me.  

Ultimately, a case IMO could be made for either (AU Michael looks on the ropes with the eye bleeding) but I'm not sure WHY they would drag Our Michael out of the cage IF AU Michael goes down due to something "Winchester".  

With all this rambling, my current prediction:
- Rowena drags Our Michael out of the cage to stop AU Michael from taking over
- Our Michael kills AU Michael and makes a deal with Dean
- Our Michael, wearing a Dean suit, goes Flying Tiger Hidden Dragon on Lucifer in the church.

Yeah, I think its been pointing to our Michael all along.   And why there are rumors of Matt Cohen.  Tree Topper thinks AU Michael is dead next episode, leaving just our Dean/Michael.

[Bobcatkitten]

I couldn't resist posting this. I saw it on Twitter. I put it here because it has info from the preview. I just keep laughing.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

17 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I couldn't resist posting this. I saw it on Twitter. I put it here because it has info from the preview. I just keep laughing.

 

Now that's funny!

It makes me wish Crowley were still around to make that comment from the sidelines while it's happening. *sob*

Edited May 11, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[bozodegama]

Episode 23 trailer.  Dean being roughed up by Au Michael.  Dean: “As Shakespeare said, Eat me.”  Best Dean line in awhile.

[Aeryn13]

Sigh, the squirrel vid might be funny but it proves that the scene is gonna look unintentionally silly and comedic. I wanted Dean`s big moment to be at least epic and they had to screw that up with amateur wireworks. Now the scene will be just goofy.  

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sigh, the squirrel vid might be funny but it proves that the scene is gonna look unintentionally silly and comedic. I wanted Dean`s big moment to be at least epic and they had to screw that up with amateur wireworks. Now the scene will be just goofy.  

From the small moment they showed it doesn't prove to me whether the whole sequence will be good or not.  I'll wait and see.

[BabySpinach]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sigh, the squirrel vid might be funny but it proves that the scene is gonna look unintentionally silly and comedic. I wanted Dean`s big moment to be at least epic and they had to screw that up with amateur wireworks. Now the scene will be just goofy.  

That's my fear as well. I wonder what's going to happen right after they crash into each other. Is it a vicious brawl, or hopping around like monkeys? Pleeeeaaasseeee be the former....

[Aeryn13]

Promo pics for the Finale  here

So Lucifer seems to make it to the bunker early on. And Jack looks less than pleased. He probably initially goes with Lucifer once the latter comes in with "this is how your friends betrayed me". 

Quote

From the small moment they showed it doesn't prove to me whether the whole sequence will be good or not.  I'll wait and see.

It seems to be the starting point of the fight and it looks goofy as hell. It`s almost impossible to get a scene like that back to thrilling and suspenseful if the viewer is still laughing from the flying squirrel moment. Very bad call IMO. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Eh, it happens so fast there will barely be time for it to register in the grander scheme of the fight. I had to put it on slo-mo just to know it was Dean. I don't think the average viewer is going to look at it that way.

[SueB]

Photos out:

13.23 photos

 

Thoughts:
1) No redemption for Luci -- look at Jack's face, he's done something that was 'not good' (I'm guessing) and now realizes his "Dad" is a POS.
2) Does Misha's hair look more fluffy these days?
3) I wonder if they put up the rest of the people at Motel 6? 
4) I worry for Bobby, he should be in the presence of those two Archangels.  Then again, slide 10 looks like there's a dead body covered with a sheet.  Man size feet.  Ketch?
5) Bloodied mouth on Dean - I think someone saves him from the "Eat me" moment.

[Aeryn13]

Looking at pics more closely, Dean has the bloodied lip from the AU!Michael attack in the bunker pics with Lucifer.

New spec: Lucifer "saves" them from Michael somehow. Trickery. Stabbing in the back etc.

Then he makes off with Jack.

Maybe AU!Michael gets taken out quite early in the ep to make room for Lucy to be the big baddie for the final fight.

[bearcatfan]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Maybe AU!Michael`s presence in our world will trigger something for cage!Michael. Or it weakens AU!Michael somehow. After all, it`s quite possible we haven`t yet had two archangels that were the same occupy the same realm, I got the feeling Gabe was dead already in AU-world, too. Lucifer, we know about. 

I agree that AU Gabe is dead. Our Michael never seemed to want to kill any of his brothers, except Lucifer, but AU Michael wants to be top dog. 

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

Photos out:

13.23 photos

 

Thoughts:
1) No redemption for Luci -- look at Jack's face, he's done something that was 'not good' (I'm guessing) and now realizes his "Dad" is a POS.
2) Does Misha's hair look more fluffy these days?
3) I wonder if they put up the rest of the people at Motel 6? 
4) I worry for Bobby, he should be in the presence of those two Archangels.  Then again, slide 10 looks like there's a dead body covered with a sheet.  Man size feet.  Ketch?
5) Bloodied mouth on Dean - I think someone saves him from the "Eat me" moment.

Well... it seemed to me the only rationale for having Sam die and be resurrected tout suite was to foreshadow this happening with Dean.  So Dean is dying and Billie facilitates it which meshes with her "see you later" comment as wrll as her acknowledgement that Dean has a role to play and work to do in AT.  Dean says yes beca use he has been primed all season to sacrifice himself for a big win to take out a big bad and save the world and he really wants Lucifer dead.  So that happens and maybe AU Michael too because I am pretty sure Michael's lance colors cause bleeding eyes per SitM.  Michael should,be able to repair the thing and the camera focused on Dean picking up the pieces and cradling them. 

AU Michael is like the playground bully who thinks that the rules do not apply to him.  Our Micharl was all about the rules.  I could see tbis being a culture clash.

I think they set up Jack going nuclear pretty clearly last night because of emotional conflict triggered by Lucifer.  He is a powder keg.

Chuck had angels kill nephilum because they were too powerful and unstable.  We are seeing why.

Cas and Sam can remove his grace which can be used to send the refugees home.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Jakes said:

Yeah, I think its been pointing to our Michael all along.   And why there are rumors of Matt Cohen.  Tree Topper thinks AU Michael is dead next episode, leaving just our Dean/Michael.

Obviously been pointing to our Michael all along... Agreed.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Jakes said:

Yeah, I think its been pointing to our Michael all along.   And why there are rumors of Matt Cohen.  Tree Topper thinks AU Michael is dead next episode, leaving just our Dean/Michael.

AU Michael is NOT a possibility imo.
They have sent tbis up as Apocalypse 2.0…. a do-over. The entire point from the writing perspective is Dean!Michael.

They have spent two years on a Dean emotional character arc leading up to this drawing upon his relationships with both Sam and Mary, how the events of the Pilot informed his psychology and his, fatal flaw, rhat combination of low self worth , over protectiveness and guilt that leads him to bear the guilt for everything rhat goes wrong and every single loss they face.

Then Dean despondent and in despair, usually triggered by extreme loss or extreme emotion pulls an extreme self sacrifice move wirh supernatural mytharc implications to save a loved one and/or get a win. When he does this he never looks to hurt anyone but himself.

So there is no way he would let AU Michael use him. To hurt others. No way.. Only someone with hubris would believe this would work and that is not Dean. And it only worked the last time for Sam because Chuck let Dean change the story…. those are Chuck’s words by the way... DEAN changed the story by showing up at Stull. AND DEAN KNOWS THIS. Chuck is not here now so... NOPE.

Dean knows our Michael is downstairs. Come on.

But the more I think about it the more I think Sam dying and being resurrected was just inserted to foreshadow the same thing happening with Dean.

So... my guess is Billie's see ya later comment and her you have work to do mean she facilitates things rather rhan Rowrna...  she brings dying Dean to Michael for the conversation.

[catrox14]

Cas eyes didn't bleed from The Michael Lance. His belly turned to some kind of encrusted thing. His eyes did bleed from Rowena attack spell

[bearcatfan]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

Photos out:

13.23 photos

 

Thoughts:
1) No redemption for Luci -- look at Jack's face, he's done something that was 'not good' (I'm guessing) and now realizes his "Dad" is a POS.
2) Does Misha's hair look more fluffy these days?
3) I wonder if they put up the rest of the people at Motel 6? 
4) I worry for Bobby, he should be in the presence of those two Archangels.  Then again, slide 10 looks like there's a dead body covered with a sheet.  Man size feet.  Ketch?
5) Bloodied mouth on Dean - I think someone saves him from the "Eat me" moment.

Luci is working with the one entity that Jack has wanted to kill for about half the season. The one that wants to kill all of Jack's friends and those Jack considers family. I'd say Luci burned any bridge he tried to build with Jack.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Cas eyes didn't bleed from The Michael Lance. His belly turned to some kind of encrusted thing. His eyes did bleed from Rowena attack spell

Lol. I would love Rowena to get a lick in.

I checked the transcript. Cas was stabbed in the gut and the effects of the lance moved upwards...

By the time the lance was broken the script showed him coughing up black goo.  So the eyes oozing oozing black goo would not be out of line I think.

Based on Jack's trajectory I think he is destined to go nuclear because of unstable feels rather than battle big bads....

So Dean!Michael gets too for one with a little help from his friends.  Pretty sweet pay off for two seasons of Deancentric emotional arc I would say.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

We have that shot of "Dean" walking down the street in that suit. Obviously the cliffhanger ending. Would AU!Michael be strolling down some street among randos? I think he would get to his apocalypse, part 2 plans right away. Cage!Michael might just...put on a nice suit and take a walk because of reasons. He was never bent on ruling Earth, maybe just Heaven. And those angels would roll out the welcome mat for any archangel, as we know. 

Two things I noticed in the last episode. When Lucifer told Jack about the "family", he talked about Michael. "Studly, warrior type". Seeing as our Michael has not been mentioned in eons, it seemed odd to put it in there. Unless it was a tiny bit foreshadowing. 

The other thing, though that could be really random plot contrivance, is when Lucifer shrugged off the handcuffs and said something like "they don`t work on me in this world (or on this side?) Was this meant to imply just something about the cuffs or the AU-world?

Maybe AU!Michael`s presence in our world will trigger something for cage!Michael. Or it weakens AU!Michael somehow. After all, it`s quite possible we haven`t yet had two archangels that were the same occupy the same realm, I got the feeling Gabe was dead already in AU-world, too. Lucifer, we know about. 

And maybe just maybe cage!Michael is the one who screams at Dean in the gas station to get the hell out before AU!Michael comes. 

There is a shot of a door being blown open in the bunker in the promo. That is either gonna be AU!Michael`s entrance there or cage!Michael comes to save them at that point.

Now the flying is just stupid. Why not fight like Lucifer and AU!Michael fought. Throw little energy balls at each other. Better than flying squirrels. You are not Arrow, show, you can`t pull off wirework stunt scenes.    

"Two things I noticed in the last episode. When Lucifer told Jack about the "family", he talked about Michael. "Studly, warrior type". Seeing as our Michael has not been mentioned in eons, it seemed odd to put it in there. Unless it was a tiny bit foreshadowing."

I caught this too.

It has already been established they feel each other's presence when they use power.  I feel pretty sure Dean and Michael have been communicating since Dean prayed in 13:1 as a mirror to Sam/Lucifer in season 11.  We just have not been shown it and it might explain in part Dean"s deteriorating mental state.

I think our angels were weaker over there and expect vice versa which AU Michael will not know... his fatal flaw plus Our Michael has his OTV.

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Why is Castiel affected by all that? That doesn't make any sense. 

I think maybe Dean isn't affected by it because he's still Michael's OTV or we get a swerve that Dean made a deal with Michael LONG before now and that's why Dean's been kind of odd to me.

Or Billie resurrecting him made him capable of withstanding more than we know. 

Or the MoC has permanently altered him.  Or he drank Phoenix ash.... it is strongly implied Dean is not strictly human... LOL... the guy has been too much.

But my vote is OTV... that WAS the canon.

I am positive he and Michael have been communicating since he prayed in 13:1 in a mirror to Sam/Lucifer in season 11.

FYI...

Billie did not resurrect him. Sam injected him.  Billie froze time.  She talked to Dean.  When she unfrozen time the injection worked.  I double checked the transcript.  It clearly states that she freezes time.

9 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If your theory about AU Michael is right, maybe Dean's clothes get bloody in the fight and he finds that outfit in the basement of the bunker. :) 

What i wanna know us if angels can fly at each other to fight, why is this the first time we've seen it?!

Winning!

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I just meant that whoever it is could've gotten the clothes from the bunker, regardless of who it is. There are bound to be closets or trunks full of stuff stored there.

Still though, they probably should've left this out now as well then. Angels who can do that shouldn't really be fist-fighting on the ground. Meh.

But it was never going to be "Dean". Jensen specifically said it was another character.

But he never had a badass bod like Dean before, either ;)   Kidding (kinda). I am 99% convinced of the Michael thing now, but I'm not ruling out Death until the fat Archangel sings. Billie was too involved in all this, and her see you soon had to mean something.

I think Billie has been making sure Dean does not commit suicide by hunting because he was needed to save rhe world. Only he could be Dean!Michael.

See you Soon.... I think Sam dying and being resurrected was to foreshadow Dean...

Billie will facilitate it as Dean is dying.  Michael will heal him and/or resurrect him wirh Dean saying yes before he dies.  

Rowena is the proverbial red haired red herring. We all know she can put Michael in a holding cell but that takes am entire episode and they do not have that amount of time.

My current thoughts. 

Not Death.  Not going to Help in this situation.  Not in that suit.

8 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

I also wonder (but highly doubt) if they're going to address the fact that Michael vs. Lucifer would scorch half the planet. There's a thin justification in the AU that AUMichael just wanted to disarm Lucifer rather than kill him, but would it have been so difficult to have the ground rumbling, rocks flying while they were duking it out? Same with Gabriel and Lucifer versus AUMichael in the latest episode. I do think that AUMichael's actor sells his formidable strength and deadliness, but the environment doesn't quite back him up. 

I think At this point Dean and Michael hate Kucifer so much they want him dead as quickly as possible.

6 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'm ridiculously in Love with this idea.

 

Maybe they'll even show us some of it. ;-D

They did not even bother giving us a Dean mechanic montage in tight tee, tight jeans to classic rock... I doubt it.

[SlightlyObsessed]

Hi. I’m new here, so if this sounds stupid, please forgive me, but does Jensen’s new character really have to have anything to do with Dean/Michael?

This is just a thought but, what if this new character is Alternate Reality BMoL Dean Winchester (think Ketch only more ruthless), sent through a rift from his reality to put an end to whoever or whatever is opening up the portals/rifts that are threatening the stability of...everything?

[BabySpinach]

12 minutes ago, SlightlyObsessed said:

Hi. I’m new here, so if this sounds stupid, please forgive me, but does Jensen’s new character really have to have anything to do with Dean/Michael?

This is just a thought but, what if this new character is Alternate Reality BMoL Dean Winchester (think Ketch only more ruthless), sent through a rift from his reality to put an end to whoever or whatever is opening up the portals/rifts that are threatening the stability of...everything?

There's been a lot of little hints given as to the character Jensen will play:

1. It's been a long time coming.

2. It's a character we haven't seen in many years.

3. It involves Dean "stepping up" in some way, so this character is going to directly impact Dean ie. possess him, rather than just be a doppleganger that looks like him. 

Only our Michael, not even AUMichael, fits with these hints. Death is a possibility, but a long shot in my opinion. Plus, our Michael's connection with Dean was unceremoniously dropped and never referenced again, so there's material to explore there that actually directly affects one of the main characters.

[SueB]

44 minutes ago, SlightlyObsessed said:

Hi. I’m new here, so if this sounds stupid, please forgive me, but does Jensen’s new character really have to have anything to do with Dean/Michael?

This is just a thought but, what if this new character is Alternate Reality BMoL Dean Winchester (think Ketch only more ruthless), sent through a rift from his reality to put an end to whoever or whatever is opening up the portals/rifts that are threatening the stability of...everything?

Not stupid! They did, however, say that Sam and Dean were not born in the Alternatre Reality so I don't think it's and AR BMoL Dean. 

Although - what DID happen to the Men of Letters in the AU.  Sure seems like they fizzled out.  

[AwesomO4000]

9 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

I also wonder (but highly doubt) if they're going to address the fact that Michael vs. Lucifer would scorch half the planet.

Yes, this... according to the lore, if Our Michael kills Our Lucifer there should be earth shaking consequences first, and then potentially nothing would be the same afterwards.

6 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

That's my fear as well. I wonder what's going to happen right after they crash into each other. Is it a vicious brawl, or hopping around like monkeys? Pleeeeaaasseeee be the former....

For your sake I hope it's the former also, but now I am chagrined to say that for a hot moment you've made me want it to be hopping around like monkeys... ::Hangs head in shame while also smiling at the image of them hopping around like monkeys:: ....Wait could it be vicious monkeys?  ...Sorry ::Goes back to hanging head in shame again::

[SlightlyObsessed]

Quote

They did, however, say that Sam and Dean were not born in the Alternatre Reality so I don't think it's and AR BMoL Dean.

But...there are an infinite number of alternate realities (tentacle monster reality, the Bad Place reality. Jack needed a guide to help him find the reality that Mary was lost in). Just because they weren’t born in one alternate reality doesn’t mean they couldn’t exist in any of the other realities.

Edited May 12, 2018 by SlightlyObsessed

[BabySpinach]

37 minutes ago, SlightlyObsessed said:

But...there are an infinite number of alternate realities (tentacle monster reality, the Bad Place reality. Jack needed a guide to help him find the reality that Mary was lost in). Just because they weren’t born in one alternate reality doesn’t mean they couldn’t exist in any of the other realities.

Yeah, but then the show would turn into something completely different if they keep shoving in alternate versions of existing characters and opening endless portals to endless worlds. I think one universe is more than enough. Helps to keep the stakes a bit more grounded, or as much as they can be. I personally didn't care much for the Apocalypse World to begin with. 

[gonzosgirrl]

48 minutes ago, SlightlyObsessed said:

But...there are an infinite number of alternate realities (tentacle monster reality, the Bad Place reality. Jack needed a guide to help him find the reality that Mary was lost in). Just because they weren’t born in one alternate reality doesn’t mean they couldn’t exist in any of the other realities.

 

It doesn't fit with the rest of the clues though. If we accept Jensen, Dabb and Singer's hints - it's someone we've seen before and his/her/its return has been a 'long time coming'. Also, an AU Dean wouldn't fit with our Dean stepping up (another Jensen clue).

Edited May 12, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[SlightlyObsessed]

4 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Yeah, but then the show would turn into something completely different if they keep shoving in alternate versions of existing characters and opening endless portals to endless worlds. I think one universe is more than enough. Helps to keep the stakes a bit more grounded, or as much as they can be. I personally didn't care much for the Apocalypse World to begin with. 

I totally agree with you, but does Dabb. Only time will tell.

[SlightlyObsessed]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It doesn't fit with the rest of the clues though. If we accept Jensen, Dabb and Singer's hints - it's someone we've seen before and his/her/its return has been a 'long time coming'. Also, an AU Dean wouldn't fit with our Dean stepping up (another Jensen clue).

I’m not saying there isn’t a Dean/Michael vs AU/Michael, Lucifer finale coming (Dean steps up...seen before...long time coming). I just believe that the different character that Jensen spoke of is probably someone who will be introduced in the last minute of episode 23, and the clothing he’s wearing make me think “proper”, “tweedy”, “British”, MoL. Something Dean would wear, if in another reality, he grew up as a MoL.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think they would do two swaps in one Finale, or half of one Finale because some stuff needs to dealt with and set-up first in this episode. So if Dean turns into Michael, he will likely stay Michael for the cliffhanger ending. Doing first Michael, then wrapping this up in five minutes AND doing another alternate version after the fact, now that is too much ground to cover even for the crazily convoluted SPN Finales.   

[Bergamot]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t think they would do two swaps in one Finale, or half of one Finale because some stuff needs to dealt with and set-up first in this episode. So if Dean turns into Michael, he will likely stay Michael for the cliffhanger ending. Doing first Michael, then wrapping this up in five minutes AND doing another alternate version after the fact, now that is too much ground to cover even for the crazily convoluted SPN Finales.   

I do not really follow all the convention news, but I did see a tweet from the one in Italy which said that when Jensen was asked how it felt to play another character than Dean, he responded, "I haven't had the chance to play this character yet, but I will". (I can't find it now, so I don't know the context or how accurately he was quoted.)  Anyway, to me this suggests that maybe when we see Dean flying through the air in that battle, he is accessing some sort of superhuman power source, but he is still Dean. Maybe the "other character" offers power to Dean so that he can fight Lucifer, but then does not take over until the very end of the episode.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Bergamot

[ILoveReading]

I’m at a JIB and Jensen said he hasn’t had a chance to play the new character yet. 

This kind of throws all my theories out the window. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Anyway, to me this suggests that maybe when we see Dean flying through the air in that battle, he is accessing some sort of superhuman power source, but he is still Dean. Maybe the "other character" offers power to Dean so that he can fight Lucifer, but then does not take over until the very end of the episode.

That could be of course. 

Almost certainly when he walks down the street in that outfit, he is not Dean. But since he will have no dialogue or anything, I guess Jensen could consider this not having a chance to really play the character yet. 

But, with as much as it was already spoiled and discussed as the Finale for this Season, there will be something in this Finale. I`m thinking Jensen uses semantics here. It would have been equally valid to say he hasn`t had a chance yet to play Demon!Dean as of the time of the Season 9 Finale and yet technically Demon!Dean was in it, as per "the eye opener".