Spoilers With Speculation

[catrox14]

30 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I guess I will have to high five myself when it happens

 

I'll high five you if it happens. I just don't see the show ever giving Dean that particular role. Like I said elsewhere, IMO it would be the true  "Give them what they want in a way they don't expect" cause it will be what I want, which is the unexpected part. LOL

Edited February 28, 2018 by catrox14

[SueB]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So they are getting this a week before it's premiered. How the Hell are they not going to have spoilers all over the place for the episode. I'm kind of bugged about this TBH.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2018/02/supernatural-season-13-newsreel-updated.html

Scoobynatural Premiering at Paley Fest
 

Yeah I forgot. I corrected my post. LOL Thank you, though!

I imagine that the plot of the episode is less "essential" than the cool-factor of them in animation.  I haven't been told we have to sign waivers so I'm sure recaps and reviews WILL pop up early.  Which mean active spoiler avoidance for those not wanting to know.  I went to Paleyfest a couple of years ago for Mad Men (and yes, I'm going this year for Supernatural).  It's a big theater so it'll be nice to see the episode on a big screen but I really think it's completely myth-arc independent with some throw-away lines at the start and finish.

I can, however, already predict how the episode will "end":  the villian would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!  Extra bonus points if there's a mask or a shapeshifter and a big reveal.   

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

I imagine that the plot of the episode is less "essential" than the cool-factor of them in animation.  I haven't been told we have to sign waivers so I'm sure recaps and reviews WILL pop up early.  Which mean active spoiler avoidance for those not wanting to know.  I went to Paleyfest a couple of years ago for Mad Men (and yes, I'm going this year for Supernatural).  It's a big theater so it'll be nice to see the episode on a big screen but I really think it's completely myth-arc independent with some throw-away lines at the start and finish.

I'm going to be disappointed if it's not mytharc related TBH. I hope they found a clever way to work it in.

[SueB]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I'm going to be disappointed if it's not mytharc related TBH. I hope they found a clever way to work it in.

Well they had to record the dialog last year.  So during the animation part, I can't see how it could be too inter-connected.  How they get to animation, how they get back, that may be related.

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, SueB said:

Well they had to record the dialog last year.  So during the animation part, I can't see how it could be too inter-connected.  How they get to animation, how they get back, that may be related.

Depends on how far ahead Dabb was plotting out s13 before they recorded.

[Castiels Cat]

31 minutes ago, SueB said:

I imagine that the plot of the episode is less "essential" than the cool-factor of them in animation.  I haven't been told we have to sign waivers so I'm sure recaps and reviews WILL pop up early.  Which mean active spoiler avoidance for those not wanting to know.  I went to Paleyfest a couple of years ago for Mad Men (and yes, I'm going this year for Supernatural).  It's a big theater so it'll be nice to see the episode on a big screen but I really think it's completely myth-arc independent with some throw-away lines at the start and finish.

I can, however, already predict how the episode will "end":  the villian would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!  Extra bonus points if there's a mask or a shapeshifter and a big reveal.   

Do we know it is animated. I saw a photo posted on io9 that showed the impala parked next to an actual Scooby Do van.  I eyerolled when this spoiler appeared to be the only thing to come out of Comic Con besides Kansas and didn't really pay much attention. 

Yes I know it could be fun. 

28 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm going to be disappointed if it's not mytharc related TBH. I hope they found a clever way to work it in.

I am sure that Shaggy and Scooby Do will figure out how to save Mary and Jack.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Do we know it is animated. I saw a photo posted on io9 that showed the impala parked next to an actual Scooby Do van.  I eyerolled when this spoiler appeared to be the only thing to come out of Comic Con besides Kansas and didn't really pay much attention. 

Yes I know it could be fun. 

I am sure that Shaggy and Scooby Do will figure out how to save Mary and Jack.

Yes.  They previewed the animation at last year's Up Fronts.

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

Yes.  They previewed the animation at last year's Up Fronts.

The photo I saw may be just a meme.

 

[Res]

I'm of the UO that cartoons shouldn't be in Supernatural. Don't get me wrong. I loved Scooby as a child. Still do a bit. And I do still love Supernatural. But combining the two . . . no. Just no. Not something that I would've ever wanted to see.

But SPN is in it's 13th Season and the showrunner/exec producer are jokes so I guess it's fitting at this point. 

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, Res said:

I'm of the UO that cartoons shouldn't be in Supernatural. Don't get me wrong. I loved Scooby as a child. Still do a bit. And I do still love Supernatural. But combining the two . . . no. Just no. Not something that I would've ever wanted to see.

But SPN is in it's 13th Season and the showrunner/exec producer are jokes so I guess it's fitting at this point. 

I have been pleasantly surprised by stunt episodes in the past... past being the operative word.  One wonders if anyone of the writers is up to the challenge.  They seem to be the write by numbers sort.

I thought Berens was mighty fine in season 10 and the Clue episode was good and fun.  But once Carver checked out his episodes lost their panache.

Given this and the superlative Reichenbach which contained many pointed references to Dean's deal arc and Sam's angst about Dean going to Hell from classic Carver episodes, I am pretty sure that Carver was up at night rewriting scripts.  I fully accept that there isn't much one can do with a nepotism duo script.

I think Dabb leans towards cartoonish characters who are just too silly to survive in what used to be a dark superverse. Asmodeus and Dagon being prime examples.  I kept waiting for the mwahaha.

And what was that oily goo God if not some cranky cosmic personification of Daffy Duck.

I mean what in the hell was That?  Personally I like my primordial ooze to be deadly serious. Is that what was stopping Chuck  from resurrecting the battalions. Daffy Duck by way of Cary Grant.

This season does seem better than the last. I give them that.  

Edited February 28, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Bobcatkitten]

My guess is bringing back Gabriel/Trickster at the same time as an animation episode can't be a coincidence. We'll see. 

To @MysteryGuest point upthread. I also found Jared's specific mention of getting other people to watch to get season 14 a bit odd. Frankly I assume they already know what's happening cause they have to have the end of this season planned out already. And I don't think they would just drop it without a true series finale. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, scribe95 said:

My guess is bringing back Gabriel/Trickster at the same time as an animation episode can't be a coincidence. We'll see. 

To @MysteryGuest point upthread. I also found Jared's specific mention of getting other people to watch to get season 14 a bit odd. Frankly I assume they already know what's happening cause they have to have the end of this season planned out already. And I don't think they would just drop it without a true series finale. 

Pedowitz always said that as long as the ratings hold and Jared and Jensen want to keep going they would keep the show going.  The show is 2nd or 3rd on the network so ratings don't seem to be an issue.  It makes me wonder if one or both might be hesitant to sign or they are in negotiations for shorter seasons and the net work is reluctant.

TBH, I'd rather have them working full time on a half season rather than part time on a full season. 

[belbar]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

TBH, I'd rather have them working full time on a half season rather than part time on a full season.

Totally this. Frankly IMHO the show is their story. If they're not there it's time to move on.

[Bobcatkitten]

TBH, I'd rather have them working full time on a half season rather than part time on a full season. 

 

SO MUCH THIS! I would take 13 quality episodes of the brothers and not a bunch of other characters, more like the first seasons, than a full season.

[Wayward Son]

I’d rather things stay the way they are than a reduction of episode count and everyone else not J2 being cut. Thanks but no thanks. 

[SueB]

Regarding Jared's comment about supporting the show:
1) They were both in high spirits for the convention.  I imagine if they were in a "take it or leave it" situation, or something that wasn't working for them personally, they'd be less relaxed. So based on timing and attitude, I suspect the number of episodes and their personal contract situation with the studio is likely "set".  They started "talks" in early November.  I be really surprised if that's dragging on. It's possible that they have pre-negotiated "if 23 then X, if 13 then Y" options but either way, I don't think they are without a "deal" at this moment. 
1a) and let's add in a quote in from the article about Jensen and his new artwork over the fireplace: http://stephenkpeeples.com/news-and-reviews/supernatural-ending-for-texas-artist-boyd-elders-y6-sunrise-bull-skull/#.WpbQnYPwYuW

Quote

Peeples: Thirteen seasons – about how many episodes is that?

Ackles: Give or take a few, I think we’re somewhere in the neighborhood of about 265 right now. Next season we hit 300, and as of now, it doesn’t seem like anyone is ready to throw in the towel.

Again, seems like they have personal deals set.  Now it's just jockying for position (see 2 & 3).
2) We get a spring slump every year and it was particularly bad last March/April.   Perhaps part of the conversation had when taking care of contract business mentioned that slump.  In which case Jared is just encouraging us to side-step the slump.  Or not.  Could be anything but that's just as likely.
3) Could be a "day of the week" concern.  Where at least twice in the past the CW announced quite a few renewals in January, this time they are waiting.  What we DID get was the announcement of Sunday programming.  Which means the debates are fast and furious as to what goes where and who is paired with what.  Jared, being Team Show, probably wants the best slot for Supenatural and is maybe encouraging some show love while the debate goes on.   

Bottom Line: I really think there's a S14.  And likely full run.  But the CW has to sort it's schedule out and until it does, "mums the word" and having a good set of ratings is always useful.

[catrox14]

That's an interesting article. You should post in it the media thread

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I’d rather things stay the way they are than a reduction of episode count and everyone else not J2 being cut. Thanks but no thanks. 

Seems like that would give us more Castiel at 13 episodes. Since he's a series regular he would be in at least 11 or 12 based on his current appearances if  my limited  understanding of regulars contracts is valid.And if it's half of 13 it's still 6 of the 13.

it would eliminate IMO wasted time on filler eps. give me a good TFW final 13

[Wayward Son]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Seems like that would give us more Castiel at 13 episodes. Since he's a series regular he would be in at least 11 or 12 based on his current appearances if  my limited  understanding of regulars contracts is valid.And if it's half of 13 it's still 6 of the 13.

it would eliminate IMO wasted time on filler eps. give me a good TFW final 13

We would see far less Castiel at 13 episodes imo.

 

Best case scenario (for Cas fans like myself) they’ll readjust Misha’s regular contract, so it accounts for the reduced episode count and he will appear in the same percentage of episodes i.6 6/7-13 rather than 11-13/23. They’d never even consider allowing Cas to appear in 11-13/13 IMO.

 

Worst case scenario they’ll get rid of all the series regulars and keep Sam and Dean as the only regulars with Cas, Jack and Lucifer written off altogether, or reduced to guests who appear in an episode or two. 

 

IMO a part of the series regular function was to allow for J2 to have time off. That is why a large portion of Crowley and Cas’ screentime have been separate to the brothers for the past few seasons. A reduced episode counts means less need for J2 time off and thus less need for regulars. Overall, I could see it go back to the Sam and Dean only show and since I’m not a bronly my response to that is thanks, but no thanks. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

I literally said in the rest of my comment we would get at least 6 of 13 eps of Castiel.

Did you stop reading at my first sentence?;)

You are making it seem like he won't be in it at all. or that it's going to be 13 bottle episodes of the boys. Sorry but I think you are wrong. Castiel is too important to the show to excise him. Funny thing about this season. Even off screen he's still a huge part of the story by his absence in Death and his ties to Jack. Cas hasn't been an afterthought IMO.

Even half of 13  it would more impact because  they can't put him in  6 eps at the beginning and push him off screen for  7more eps and bring him back for the final five or 6. whatever is the math. In 13 eps I think it will be more and better use of him

[ahrtee]

Sounds kind of bitter to me.

Edited February 28, 2018 by ahrtee

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I literally said in the rest of my comment we would get at least 6 of 13 eps of Castiel.

Did you stop reading at my first sentence?;)

You are making it seem like he won't be in it at all. or that it's going to be 13 bottle episodes of the boys. Sorry but I think you are wrong. Castiel is too important to the show to excise him. Funny thing about this season. Even off screen he's still a huge part of the story by his absence in Death and his ties to Jack. Cas hasn't been an afterthought IMO.

Even half of 13  it would more impact because  they can't put him in  6 eps at the beginning and push him off screen for  7more eps and bring him back for the final five or 6. whatever is the math. In 13 eps I think it will be more and better use of him

That’s because that’s exactly what I think would happen if they reduced the episode count, and I’ve no use in Sam, Dean and the MOTW only episodes hence no interest in a episode reduction. I’d rather the show just ended altogether. 

[Castiels Cat]

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 

I'll high five you if it happens. I just don't see the show ever giving Dean that particular role. Like I said elsewhere, IMO it would be the true  "Give them what they want in a way they don't expect" cause it will be what I want, which is the unexpected part. LOL

I think they are hinting pretty strongly that Dean!Michael is an eventual outcome.  Two years of hinting that we are heading towards an Apocalypse and well we are getting an Apocalypse.  No one believed me last season either. 

And no one believed me when I said that Amara was justifiably angry, misunderstood and the victim of a misogynist smear campaign; and that she would keep throwing fits getting angrier as God ignored her.  By the time he apologized that wouldn't be enough but she would eventually  back down and soften after a pretty speech from Dean in a garden. Not only did no one believe me, I was also resoundingly mocked by several folks. 

I was wrong about demonic Dean being on the down low.  In my defence I do have major Dean goggles and it was pretty lame to abruptly cut off that storyline to accommodate Fan Fiction as episode 5.

And man did I expect Dean to become a Phoenix after drinking Phoenix ash because of the well known oft repeated lore that a new Phoenix rises from the ashes of the old!!!   And a Phoenix hunter would work very well since the mythology states that they are fierce protectors and defenders of  all that is good.  But yeah that boat has sailed...

And that same creative team also had a major Greek Virgin goddess have a sexual relationship with her own Great Uncle...  yeesh.

And I don't think the benevolent Hindu God Ganesha has ever eaten flesh in his life and should not have been depicted this way.  Blood and guts is not his mojo nor his offerings.  

[ILoveReading]

 

Sneak Peek

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

That’s because that’s exactly what I think would happen if they reduced the episode count, and I’ve no use in Sam, Dean and the MOTW only episodes hence no interest in a episode reduction. I’d rather the show just ended altogether. 

The show ends for an individual the moment they decide to change the channel. Personally, I won't wish a couple hundred people out of a job just because I don't like their product any more. YMMV.  I don't think there's any chance at all of a shortened season unless it really is the end. Since there was no early renewal announcement, I expect it will happen at Paleyfest.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

And no one believed me when I said that Amara was justifiably angry, misunderstood and the victim of a misogynist smear campaign; and that she would keep throwing fits getting angrier as God ignored her.  By the time he apologized that wouldn't be enough but she would eventually  back down and soften after a pretty speech from Dean in a garden. Not only did no one believe me, I was also resoundingly mocked by several folks. 

I don't know if you were a memeber here when Amara was a thing but there were several folks here who thought that about her, so you weren't alone at least :).

[Bobcatkitten]

To clarify, I never meant no Cas at all. But definitely a reduction in other tangential characters. There are just too many.

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I was wrong about demonic Dean being on the down low.  In my defence I do have major Dean goggles and it was pretty lame to abruptly cut off that storyline to accommodate Fan Fiction as episode 5

I was on the same demonic Dean still lurking train. I'm still not convinced he wasn't.

So that sneak peek, it looks like you were right about getting the stuff for Donatello. POINTS! (I miss @midnight ).

Also, Dean seems weird in that clip. He's uber aggressive. Eating all the bacon. Something aint right with that boy right now. Maybe Jensen has a cold and his voice is gruffer than normal. Hmmm. I'm speccing that something is up with Dean. I don't think it's going to be Michael!Dean...he's...off IMO

5 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

To clarify, I never meant no Cas at all. But definitely a reduction in other tangential characters. There are just too many.

FWIW, I didn't think you meant no Cas because Cas isn't a tangential character. He's essential to the story now. Can't get rid of him IMO nor do I think they want to anymore. I do think he'll probably die before the end of the series along with Dean, but that's just me.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

Regarding Jared's comment about supporting the show:
1) They were both in high spirits for the convention.  I imagine if they were in a "take it or leave it" situation, or something that wasn't working for them personally, they'd be less relaxed. So based on timing and attitude, I suspect the number of episodes and their personal contract situation with the studio is likely "set".  They started "talks" in early November.  I be really surprised if that's dragging on. It's possible that they have pre-negotiated "if 23 then X, if 13 then Y" options but either way, I don't think they are without a "deal" at this moment. 
1a) and let's add in a quote in from the article about Jensen and his new artwork over the fireplace: http://stephenkpeeples.com/news-and-reviews/supernatural-ending-for-texas-artist-boyd-elders-y6-sunrise-bull-skull/#.WpbQnYPwYuW

Again, seems like they have personal deals set.  Now it's just jockying for position (see 2 & 3).
2) We get a spring slump every year and it was particularly bad last March/April.   Perhaps part of the conversation had when taking care of contract business mentioned that slump.  In which case Jared is just encouraging us to side-step the slump.  Or not.  Could be anything but that's just as likely.
3) Could be a "day of the week" concern.  Where at least twice in the past the CW announced quite a few renewals in January, this time they are waiting.  What we DID get was the announcement of Sunday programming.  Which means the debates are fast and furious as to what goes where and who is paired with what.  Jared, being Team Show, probably wants the best slot for Supenatural and is maybe encouraging some show love while the debate goes on.   

Bottom Line: I really think there's a S14.  And likely full run.  But the CW has to sort it's schedule out and until it does, "mums the word" and having a good set of ratings is always useful.

Interesting Intel. 

The CW network President has indicated that he loves the show and it will go on as long as J2 is willing.  The show is still going strong and last year it was surpassing Arrow and has remained in the top 4 shows consistently.  To my eye Flash and LoT were showing signs of struggling. Personally I didn't tune in to either  this season.  Finally, the network consistently moves the show around and uses it to help new shows and prop old shows which means the network considers it to be reliable as far as audience.  It survived the move to the death slot on Friday and is one of the Best performers on the network, something the suits well know.  I am sure that the numbers dropped under Singer and Dabb's tutelage but it remains a CW stalwart.  

It really will come down to J2.  I would not be surprised if Jared in particular was interested in getting out or downsizing his role.  I think the intensity of the schedule and storyines is  is hard on him.  His injuries or fear of new ones is affecting Sam's physicality.  He seems to be tossed on the floor whilst Dean keeps on fighting until miraculously the weapin is inches from his hand and he strikes.  This will get as old as Sam being tied to a chasir and tortured.  Also Sam's depressed talk of dying seemed different and um... scared me a bit. 

When Dean talks like that it is a frank acknowledgement of the life he has chosen.  And When Dean gets depressed he tries to commit suicide by hunting in order to achieve a final good act that compensates for all of the "bad" his depressed mind ruminate on.  Dean has a tendency to survive his grand gestures despite his planning on not surviving.  This is his tragic flaw.

With Sam... I don't know.  It felt like a hint.  And since I think the car conversation with Rowena was the set-up for Sam to heroically say yes to Lucifer, and both the NuApocalyose and Jack the walking plot device are perfect vehicles for Lucifer's redemption....  As we saw with Megatron, evil angels earn their redemption by putting others first and dying for them. 

So I have a weird feeling that Sam's role in the show could change.  Maybe it just means that Sam is the new and improved Bobby and Dean finds a new wetwork partner.  We have seen them split up more and more.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

His injuries or fear of new ones is affecting Sam's physicality.  He seems to be tossed on the floor whilst Dean keeps on fighting until miraculously the weapin is inches from his hand and he strikes.  This will get as old as Sam being tied to a chasir and tortured.  Also Sam's depressed talk of dying seemed different and um... scared me a bit. 

I don't think that's the case. I think they have always generally put Sam on the floor because of Jared's height. It's probably easier to put him in the frame that way. Also, they throw Dean across the room and into walls a lot more. Maybe Dean's stunt double is okay with that and Jared's isn't?

But I don't think it's because of Jared's shoulder now, Maybe two years ago. 

[Res]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was on the same demonic Dean still lurking train. I'm still not convinced he wasn't.

So that sneak peek, it looks like you were right about getting the stuff for Donatello. POINTS! (I miss @midnight ).

Also, Dean seems weird in that clip. He's uber aggressive. Eating all the bacon. Something aint right with that boy right now. Maybe Jensen has a cold and his voice is gruffer than normal. Hmmm. I'm speccing that something is up with Dean. I don't think it's going to be Michael!Dean...he's...off IMO

Did we ever see how the brothers woke up in the bad place? Did they wake up at the same time? Next to each other? Maybe it's BP Dean and our Dean is still over there? 

Couldn't care less about Donatello personally but then I feel that way about most of the side characters.

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, Res said:

Did we ever see how the brothers woke up in the bad place? Did they wake up at the same time? Next to each other? Maybe it's BP Dean and our Dean is still over there? 

We just saw them wake up and start walking. Then in WS they were eating BBQ Lizard and got captured and tied to trees. I would not be surprised if it is BP Dean. He seems kind of like MoC Dean to me.

[Diane]

[SueB]

Well that Dabb quote gave me a chuckle.  

[Diane]

[Diane]

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:24 AM, scribe95 said:

My guess is bringing back Gabriel/Trickster at the same time as an animation episode can't be a coincidence. We'll see. 

To @MysteryGuest point upthread. I also found Jared's specific mention of getting other people to watch to get season 14 a bit odd. Frankly I assume they already know what's happening cause they have to have the end of this season planned out already. And I don't think they would just drop it without a true series finale. 

I thought the same thing About Gabriel however I don't think It is out Gabriel so he is not necessarily a Trickster.  I am basing this on the weird archangel sword and Gabriel's  appearance and condition.

On 2/28/2018 at 7:13 PM, Res said:

Did we ever see how the brothers woke up in the bad place? Did they wake up at the same time? Next to each other? Maybe it's BP Dean and our Dean is still over there? 

Couldn't care less about Donatello personally but then I feel that way about most of the side characters.

Huh. 

Huh.

Dean woke up and looked for Sam I think.  Dean binges when stressed. And now Dean and eating is a thing.  It's canon.

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:44 PM, catrox14 said:

I was on the same demonic Dean still lurking train. I'm still not convinced he wasn't.

So that sneak peek, it looks like you were right about getting the stuff for Donatello. POINTS! (I miss @midnight ).

Also, Dean seems weird in that clip. He's uber aggressive. Eating all the bacon. Something aint right with that boy right now. Maybe Jensen has a cold and his voice is gruffer than normal. Hmmm. I'm speccing that something is up with Dean. I don't think it's going to be Michael!Dean...he's...off IMO

FWIW, I didn't think you meant no Cas because Cas isn't a tangential character. He's essential to the story now. Can't get rid of him IMO nor do I think they want to anymore. I do think he'll probably die before the end of the series along with Dean, but that's just me.

At Midnight? The song? I missed this scene.I missed the beginning so I didn't actually see him eating bacon.

Dean binge eating with abandon is a thing now and has been for some time.  He eats obsessively when stressed/depressed  or fixes Baby non-stop or drinks and drinks or or hunts like crazy.  He buries himself in an activity.  It is an OCD reaction triggered by anxiety/depression  that causes him to compulsively engage in a task  like binge eating.  Otherwise he does not exhibit OCD.  I am like this. It only gets triggered when stress levels are abnormally high.  

He is going dark in my opinion, meaning he will cross a line/linest o save Mary.  Line crossed tonight being willing to kill a couple of old testament dudes for their hearts... for a recipe.  Nice heroes don't do sh@! Like that 

He's also desperate meaning he will sacrifice himself to save Mary.  Camera close-up when Cas recited the ingredients is a pretty big hint... Dean!Michael, Dean!Michael, Dean!Michael.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

Quote

On 2/28/2018 at 7:33 PM, catrox14 said:

We just saw them wake up and start walking. Then in WS they were eating BBQ Lizard and got captured and tied to trees. I would not be surprised if it is BP Dean. He seems kind of like MoC Dean to me.

 

You just admitted that Dean is dark now...lol.  And all it took was bacon.  Bacon is magic. 

Comparing Dean to MoC Dean is essentially saying Dean is acting dark.  And killing something for its heart is even darker.  

Strangely Sam is an emotional basket case yet also agreed to killing a pair of brothers f or their hearts.  That is freaking weird.

Yet Cas is even darker.  Something is really up with Cas.

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/28/2018 at 7:33 PM, catrox14 said:

We just saw them wake up and start walking. Then in WS they were eating BBQ Lizard and got captured and tied to trees. I would not be surprised if it is BP Dean. He seems kind of like MoC Dean to me.

Dean was eating spit roasted lizard over an open fire. Barbeque requires slow cooking  in an oven or fire pit using spice rubs and sauce although in some regional variants the sauce is applied only when it is served.

Sam was holding his nose and too  fussy to eat it 

For me it illustrated Dean's capacify  to assimilate and thrive in different environments like the Bad Place or a film set or Purgatory... 

On 2/28/2018 at 3:06 PM, catrox14 said:

I don't think that's the case. I think they have always generally put Sam on the floor because of Jared's height. It's probably easier to put him in the frame that way. Also, they throw Dean across the room and into walls a lot more. Maybe Dean's stunt double is okay with that and Jared's isn't?

But I don't think it's because of Jared's shoulder now, Maybe two years ago. 

I am really noticing it this season.   

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:38 PM, catrox14 said:

I don't know if you were a memeber here when Amara was a thing but there were several folks here who thought that about her, so you weren't alone at least :).

I was not a member here.  Some very vocal members of a now defunct board made fun of me.  

Of course now I see parallels to Hillary.... the vilification, the misogyny, the lock her up mantra, the fear of a strong  woman who speaks her mind... 

[Castiels Cat]

On 2/28/2018 at 2:31 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

The show ends for an individual the moment they decide to change the channel. Personally, I won't wish a couple hundred people out of a job just because I don't like their product any more. YMMV.  I don't think there's any chance at all of a shortened season unless it really is the end. Since there was no early renewal announcement, I expect it will happen at Paleyfest.

+1999

I don't understand people that want the show to end just because they don't like the current plotline or iteration.  Just stop watching and do not buy the dvd's.

I disliked the endgame of the original X-Files.  I have all the Dvd's.  I disliked the direction of the reboot un the end and thought all but one episode were weak. That one goid episode  is a classic and as good as any of the classic standalone episodes from the original series.I bought the dvd because I love the X-Files. This season had a mediocre and problematic premiere however the rest of the season is good and this week's episode was great... stunningly great.

I am really sorry that Gillian Anderson is done.  For now they are saying no more x-Files because no Gillian.  That is a good call because she is the center of the show.  They should have offered her the same noney as Duchovny.

My point is that even 13 seasons in with Singer and Dabb and the nepotism duo Supernatural is capable of being season 4 good again.  I give them credit for skillfully setting up the board slowly and deliberately for Apocalypse 2.0.

[Castiels Cat]

Speculative musings..

Dean and Sam were fine with human slaughter to get what they want when it was the only way (Gog and Magog) but not when there are options.

This is dark and yet Cas is darker all of a sudden. This is the character who called Sam to make sure Sam wanted to go ahead with removing the Mark since it required human sacrifice, and was very disturbed rhat they went there. That Cas was squicked about human sacrifice. Now Cas is all Honey Badger. He don’t care.

Cas is rogue and psycho nuts about saving Jack…. and Mary. Why has Cas been visibly different and why is he so nuts about saving Jack … and Mary. Did Fetus Jack program a protect me prime directive accidentally. Is the Primordial Black Goo God wearing Cas for the sole purpose of finding Jack to kill him for waking Cas up. I mean there is something there. Cas has a perverse, subversive quality now and I seem to recall POGG (Primordial Oily Goo God) rooting around inside cas for answers …

Sam is a basket case. Something very bad for Sam comes this way.

Dean has realized that he can sacrifice himself to save Mary by making a deal with Michael. This is the default Dean response to a family member in trouble and/or severe despondent depression; ie. Demon deal in season 2 , dying to deal with Death on Sam’s behalf in seadon 6 and killing himself to talk to reaper
about Sam in Red Meat; and MoC arc including asking Death to kill him and tasjing on the MoC. Hell he rushed to kill himself in Advanced Thanatology.

They now have nephilim swords because God and Magog were nephilim per being giants and not being killed in the flood (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim). I missed this part of the episode and may be wrong however my understanding is Dean needed to use their sword to kill them. Nephilim killed by nephilim killing blades…
So Jack can be killed. ?

Jack now has a character arc that is not supersedesd by his role as walking plot device. Killing Michael and creating a utopia over there are great goals.

We are getting Dean!Michael. The close-up on Dean’s serious yet thoughtful face, Dean’s history of making sacrifices to save family, his manic need to save Mary… all suggest that he will make a quid pro quo deal with Michael.

We are so getting an Apocalypse over here. The killing of Gog/Magog is considered a precursor to the Apocalypse in some biblical texts. Lucifer being in heaven is significant, a reverse mirroring for the previous Apocalypse. Previously Michael was in heaven. And in another reverse mirroring Michael is in the cage. Plus they hace been referencing Apocalypse 1.0 for two seasons. Finally I am not the only one thatthinks this had a possibility. Still the only one that thinks it IS happening. And ROWENA IS ALIVE TO OPEN THE CAGE so very conveniently and hates Lucifer yada yada yada. Michael trump’s Lucifer. This is canon and biblical lore.

Unfortunately TFW is falling apart at the seams and Crowley was oh so instrumental. Where for art thou Crowley? Rowena better resurrect Crowley off screen. Or maybe she already set that up…

I have to say I find it to be very suspicious that Letch not only resurrected using Rowena’s magic but was also looking for Rowena. My gut says that Letch is Crowley undercover. There have been a passel (sp?) of episodes containing hidden identities via masks, and shifting into other’s apoearances, and of course demons and angels can hide their identity to humans by shifting meatsuits and certain powerful beings can hide their identities to angels and deities (Gabriel and Asmodeus).

Who is to say Crowley is not hiding in plain sight. Why else have Letch being so amenable and wanting to work wirh the boys. And boy is Letch way less psycho. Hmmm.

Crowley knows more than the average demon because he values knowledge and is trained in magic. And Crowley is scary smart, known for figuring out contractual loopholes and has repeatedly demonstrated a knack for not dying when he should be dead.
And there was Dean’s Crowley is a cockroach comment. So we may not get Mark Sheppard back but we definitely could get Crowley back, or he is already back currently as a well masked Crowley.

Asmodeus is literally the definition of a cartoonish character and the embodiment of that villain trope who defeats himself effectively through his inability to shut-up. Yet I am not sure of his endgame and he does the unexpected which is intriguing. Why the shadeen. How did he get Gabriel. An archangel is above his paygrade.

And WTF Gabriel. I assume that the archangel sword that Asmodeus has belonged to prisoner Gabriel. It isn’t like Lucifer’s. So unless each archangel has different blades… naw season 5 Gabriel didn’t have spiraling facets on his blades. He is not our Gabriel.
Who sewed his mouth shut. It would take serious mojo to overpower an archangel.

[ahrtee]

6 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

He is going dark in my opinion, meaning he will cross a line/linest o save Mary.  Line crossed tonight being willing to kill a couple of old testament dudes for their hearts... for a recipe.  Nice heroes don't do sh@! Like that 

Dean killed the Phoenix for his ashes in order to kill Eve--even after acknowledging that Finch wasn't killing indiscriminately, but just out for vengeance/justice for his wife (sound familiar?)  Cas killed the "innocent" nephilim for Metatron's spell, and seemed willing to kill the cupid except she gave him her bow willingly, and the only regret seemed to be because of the results of the spell, not how he got the ingredients. 

The "old testament dudes" weren't human either, so (apparently) are exempted from the "don't kill people" rule (which has been pretty well twisted over the past 12 years anyway.)  Besides, it was in a battle, and therefore self-defense, not an execution.  I don't see that as going dark.  OTOH, didn't the little promo pic say something about *everyone* going dark this year?  Maybe everyone gets one "dark" act, then they can all get together and compare/angst about them at the end of the season. 

[AwesomO4000]

15 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Cas is rogue and psycho nuts about saving Jack…. and Mary. Why has Cas been visibly different and why is he so nuts about saving Jack … and Mary.

I think Castiel is more "on a mission" Castiel who doesn't appear to suffer potential moral delays at times... A good example would be Castiel in season 6 when TFW had the means to kill Eve and so just had to find her to get their plan rolling. After getting the information they needed from formerly-non-human-killing-but-now-in-trouble-due-to-Eve vampire Lenore, Sam and Dean - understandably - wanted to help her and were discussing means in which to do so. Castiel, however, ignored that conversation and killed her to move things along more quickly even when Sam and especially Dean gave him a total "What the Hell?" look for doing it. Castiel just answered (paraphrase) "ehn, we had to move things along."

I think soulless and obviously now-messed-up-from-the-Demon-Tablet Donatello was a similar thing - something that would take time to figure out how to fix him / help him / etc., and Castiel decided that he instead had to "move things along" and eliminated the potentially messy and time consuming moral quandary from Sam and Dean's hands.

Of course season 6 Castiel also ended up being shown to be doing somewhat shady things later that episode, so I guess that still isn't off the table here either.

16 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Sam was holding his nose and too  fussy to eat it

Now I missed some of this scene I'll admit, o I could be wrong about it, but in my opinion, Sam just doesn't eat in times like that. It's a thing with him. Like he thinks eating will slow him down or take his focus away or something. In my opinion, when Sam is stressed or even just focused on something, he doesn't want to eat. When Sam's working a case, he doesn't accept food or coffee or anything from the people they interview... like it would take away from his focus. Often when they are at a diner or bar working a case, Sam is paying more attention to his laptop or the newspaper or his research than he is the food or drink. That's just what Sam does, in my opinion. Sam eats when he has to, but isn't really that into it - the occasional yummy Dean made hamburger that he actually purposefully goes back for excepting.

I mean if Sam would eat marshmallow on Doritos or mac n'cheese when he was a kid.... he can't be that fussy an eater ; ) .

[Wayward Son]

Just watched the episode and I, more strongly than ever, feel that Dean will be the most holy man! Once Cas mentioned the word blood it clicked for me. We’ve already had an episode this season which focused on Dean’s blood as part of a spell (coincidentally another Glynn episode IIRC) and now it’ll be once more needed for another one. The Scorpion and the Frog was totally foreshadowing Dean’s blood for this spell. 

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Just watched the episode and I, more strongly than ever, feel that Dean will be the most holy man! Once Cas mentioned the word blood it clicked for me. We’ve already had an episode this season which focused on Dean’s blood as part of a spell (coincidentally another Glynn episode IIRC) and now it’ll be once more needed for another one. The Scorpion and the Frog was totally foreshadowing Dean’s blood for this spell. 

I really hope your right.  I like for the show to revisit the righteous man arc. 

It should be Dean based on that.  But I doubt the writers even remember this.

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I really hope your right.  I like for the show to revisit the righteous man arc. 

It should be Dean based on that.  But I doubt the writers even remember this.

I’m not going to go as far as @Castiels Cat and say we are definitely getting the Dean!Michael arc some posters are hoping for. I’m about 50/50 on that right now. 

 

But Im fairly confident (like 99% certain) that next episode will at least revisit Dean as the righteous man due to the need of his blood for the spell. Especially since we’ve already had an episode where Dean’s blood was the key component of a spell this season. 

[ILoveReading]

If the show really wanted to they have the potential set up to make both brothers equally important.   With 'the most holy man being Dean's blood, and the arch angel grace coming from Sam.  Because they said in First Born you retain some grace of the angel that possessed you. 

But give that title is singular, and with Dabb and Singer in charge I figure there is a 1% chance of it being Dean.

Since the promo pics give me a very Trial and Error type vibe (and these writers love copy and paste) if Dean's blood is special it will be a case where both their blood is can be used for the spell, but the one who does has to make a sacrifice.  They will argue and ultimately it will be Sam.

[catrox14]

31 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Just watched the episode and I, more strongly than ever, feel that Dean will be the most holy man! Once Cas mentioned the word blood it clicked for me. We’ve already had an episode this season which focused on Dean’s blood as part of a spell (coincidentally another Glynn episode IIRC) and now it’ll be once more needed for another one. The Scorpion and the Frog was totally foreshadowing Dean’s blood for this spell. 

I hope you're right. I'll be so down for Dean having some other cool stuff to do. I will eat all the hats if that happens though. But that would be AMAZING AND YAY DEAN!

And FWIW, ...The title of the episode is A Most Holy Man. Completely different words that mean something completely different. That "The" and "A" change the context and meaning completely.